Guild Wars 2

Nerelith.7360:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Drakent.9605:

I also agree with the OP,

GW2 feels more like a facebook video game version, is all about collecting dyed and customs and then show them off . GW2 should be call the other facebook, is just a social game.

The question is then, what should it be? I mean, why do we play MMOs? To play with other people. Why do we collect loot? To show them on our characters.

Doesn’t that make every MMO ‘just a social game’?

Not quite. See when I play World of Warcraft it is to level up My character, see what skills she developes. See How those skills Interact with Mobs, so that I can improve my skill… I am playing 3 Monks. Yes 3. there is a reason that if you Know World of warcraft you don’t really need explained, if you don’t or haven’t played well..no need to explain.

In gw2. By level 25 or 30 I have seen all the skills. Mostly after that it’s all refinement. Applying the right traits with the right polishing of already seen and experienced skills.

“ok so Now aftert I use skill A, I get 5 seconds of vigor…. umm… " Yes, I am sure that those 5 seconds of vigor will be useful…but it’s NOT the same thing as Playing to level 85, and seeing an entirely new skill you’ve never seen before.

I think what makes this game more a 3d facebook is…after you have seen ALL the skills… you can Mostly spend your time chatting.." so…How was that Birthday party? " * Kill Troll*.." was good I got a new Blender.." * Kill Oak*… bla bl bla… * Kill bacon*…

The way I think of it…. World of Warcraft and the games that came before it, Including the Original Guild Wars…were games… and you socialized In them as a secondary thing..the primary thing was…exploring the game..and it’s skills.

for me Guild wars 2… feels Like… an excuse to get together with friends you make in the game… the Game itself is beginning, at least for me… to feel Like…something attached to a 3d social engine.

Not sure if I made sense….

When I Played EverQuest… a friend of Mine asked me that played with me." How would you discribe World of Warcraft?" I said " hmmm… as EverQuest Lite… with pretty colors."

I Guess I would describe gw2 is…" World of warcraft lite… with a More casual social, hey let’s all hang out while we kill karkas" feel."

Playing the game is beginning to feel like an afterthought.

To me, the socialising is the primary thing in MMOs, because frankly, gameplay is normally subpar to that of console games.

I havn’t played enough of WoW to understand what you mean, but even at 80, I’m still thinking of new builds. I do agree that the theory crafting is not very deep in here, its all just DPS stacking in PvE, and it’s quite awkward to do without a DPS meter however.

But to the average player, I’m not really sure it actually matters. For example, if you ask around in why people camp GS on warriors now, most people will just basically go ‘because Nike said so’. The average player doesn’t theory craft, because frankly, it takes hours to do on a spreadsheet and that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

Duke Nukem.6783:

i liked the living story, thats all i have to say about that, do i want more contant? sure every1 always wants more more more

meaningful multiplayer? they just overhauled the reward system what mroe do u want, its much better now

New modes, maps which are designed for the new modes, better balance.
Also, they gave you other reward, not particularly better reward.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Nerelith.7360:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Drakent.9605:

I also agree with the OP,

GW2 feels more like a facebook video game version, is all about collecting dyed and customs and then show them off . GW2 should be call the other facebook, is just a social game.

The question is then, what should it be? I mean, why do we play MMOs? To play with other people. Why do we collect loot? To show them on our characters.

Doesn’t that make every MMO ‘just a social game’?

Not quite. See when I play World of Warcraft it is to level up My character, see what skills she developes. See How those skills Interact with Mobs, so that I can improve my skill… I am playing 3 Monks. Yes 3. there is a reason that if you Know World of warcraft you don’t really need explained, if you don’t or haven’t played well..no need to explain.

In gw2. By level 25 or 30 I have seen all the skills. Mostly after that it’s all refinement. Applying the right traits with the right polishing of already seen and experienced skills.

“ok so Now aftert I use skill A, I get 5 seconds of vigor…. umm… " Yes, I am sure that those 5 seconds of vigor will be useful…but it’s NOT the same thing as Playing to level 85, and seeing an entirely new skill you’ve never seen before.

I think what makes this game more a 3d facebook is…after you have seen ALL the skills… you can Mostly spend your time chatting.." so…How was that Birthday party? " * Kill Troll*.." was good I got a new Blender.." * Kill Oak*… bla bl bla… * Kill bacon*…

The way I think of it…. World of Warcraft and the games that came before it, Including the Original Guild Wars…were games… and you socialized In them as a secondary thing..the primary thing was…exploring the game..and it’s skills.

for me Guild wars 2… feels Like… an excuse to get together with friends you make in the game… the Game itself is beginning, at least for me… to feel Like…something attached to a 3d social engine.

Not sure if I made sense….

When I Played EverQuest… a friend of Mine asked me that played with me." How would you discribe World of Warcraft?" I said " hmmm… as EverQuest Lite… with pretty colors."

I Guess I would describe gw2 is…" World of warcraft lite… with a More casual social, hey let’s all hang out while we kill karkas" feel."

Playing the game is beginning to feel like an afterthought.

To me, the socialising is the primary thing in MMOs, because frankly, gameplay is normally subpar to that of console games.

I havn’t played enough of WoW to understand what you mean, but even at 80, I’m still thinking of new builds. I do agree that the theory crafting is not very deep in here, its all just DPS stacking in PvE, and it’s quite awkward to do without a DPS meter however.

But to the average player, I’m not really sure it actually matters. For example, if you ask around in why people camp GS on warriors now, most people will just basically go ‘because Nike said so’. The average player doesn’t theory craft, because frankly, it takes hours to do on a spreadsheet and that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

“because frankly, gameplay is normally subpar to that of console games.”

You mean ‘as non MMO games’? Consoles are rubbish with a game-play mechanism meant for people that are lying on a bank while playing a game. It may not be to hard to to much in depth. For games in general depends on what game-play you are looking for. Personally I don’t play an mmo for the action of killing (then I prefer FPS games), more for group-play and building / customizing some nice things.

^ It’s because MMOs are massively restricted.

There’s only so much you can do before a MMO becomes unplayable on current-gen PCs, so graphically, it’s not as good.

Like you said, MMOs lack on the action front, and it also frankly lacks on the innovative gameplay front because of a combination of technological and balance restrictions.

Costumization is also restricted because everything needs to be balanced, there’s only so much they can give you to play around with.

Excellent post.
I admire your writing skills. If I could point out problems this amazing way players would be raging and demanding content.
Sadly, there are to many trolls here that are happy with the current nothing basically.

“bloody care anymore.” That just made me smile :d hardly see anyone use “bloody” anymore..to bad. You Irish?

On the rest…Perfectly agree. I would say…nothing more to say, but there actually is…pages…maybe even books could be filled where they went wrong with a good idea.

On second thought trough, I admit it, I also think the biggest problem are class content. Maybe not 100% but to lack of class content combat became flat. You have 2-3 option each class that is forced on you, or you are useless.
Not to mention the favoritism of berserkers and bullkitten, that was supposed to be fixed by taking away trinity, but instead it only crippled the variety of combat, classes and the characters options.

Direction of content? I don’t understand why players even bother playing this game and dare to say they are playing RPG….“look we got a new jumping puzzle” is not a content for an RPG. It is, but not after you ONLY get them. And not a Guild Hall you can build up for example.
RPG dies when you cant wear any kind of armor you think of, and use any kind of weapon you like to your taste. (to my opinion, but that’s another topic)
Seriously there isn’t even a mention of classes in the game. It wont matter that you are a brutalic 10 iq barbarian warrior or a noble elementalist that is secretly planning to be a necromancer. It wont matter, the game wont let you decipher magic symbols on a locked door to open it, or give you a choice to bash open it….its not RPG….and I remember how they yelled : This will bring back the word RPG next to MMO…

Right now this isn’t even an mmo. Feels more like some facebook kitten, where I have a shared auction house. Truly you are right, hardly covers mmo.

I am personally struggling to decide what to do like a half year ago. I come back play a month then leave for again. Then I think, maybe they give us lots of content next week. Or info on explansion that can “save” the game. Like factions did to Gw1. Then I come back, and after a month I realize I don’t know what class to play, realize I hate them all, then I realize I hate the game itself. And uninstall cursing myself for wasting time on this kitten.

This aint the way to do mmo-s lads….

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

Retsuko.2035:

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

No you’re missing the point. OP is leaving, and he/she does so telling us why. Regarding if a dev posts in this thread or not they might read it. So even if it’s not interesting to you it’s still valuable information to the devs.

It doesn’t matter if WvW takes much higher skills than dungeons or PvE in general. If that gameplay doesn’t appeal to me should I just think “tough luck” and accept that this is the game and this is what it’s going to be? No, of course not, that’s where opinion kicks in. And OP just did that. (S)He’s not a community, (s)he’s not a guild nor is (s)he muliple persons. (S)he’s 1 person giving out a good explanation why the game is in her/his opinion not good.

Should the devs in your opinion just reply with “Too bad for you then” and don’t care at all about what OP said?

Ouimette.5902:

Retsuko.2035:

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

No you’re missing the point. OP is leaving, and he/she does so telling us why. Regarding if a dev posts in this thread or not they might read it. So even if it’s not interesting to you it’s still valuable information to the devs.

It doesn’t matter if WvW takes much higher skills than dungeons or PvE in general. If that gameplay doesn’t appeal to me should I just think “tough luck” and accept that this is the game and this is what it’s going to be? No, of course not, that’s where opinion kicks in. And OP just did that. (S)He’s not a community, (s)he’s not a guild nor is (s)he muliple persons. (S)he’s 1 person giving out a good explanation why the game is in her/his opinion not good.

Should the devs in your opinion just reply with “Too bad for you then” and don’t care at all about what OP said?

What I would Like to think is that the devs would be interested in the reasons players leave the game. Many players say " we don’t care." well, I do care. So those that say " we don’t care " to be hip are not speaking for me.

Secondly, many say " if you’re leaving you can just make it one sentence." I’m going.. was fun, but I found something else." or whatever.

I disagree, this type of post is arrogant and self – absorbed. it’s basically " look at me, i am leaving you all here, and I have to make a Post about it, because obviously you will all miss me.." bla bla bla…

The irony is, THIS is the type of post most people may not give bullpucky about.

But a well thought, well spoken, list of reasons why a player has decided to move on… I would imagine this is the type of information companies In the real world PAY for.

Here it’s being given to them for free…. on a silver-platter. Why would Anet NOT appreciate that the OP took some time out, to express his or her dissatisfaction?

If I were Anet, instead of saying " Goodbye threads against the rules, shutting it down…." I would Put a Forum category." " Reasons I am quitting"

I can understand that this will be troll bait. But that is where the rules come Into play. make it so that anyone that responds makes it a constructive post.. about the topic in question…Where the game may be weak…. where such percieved weakness may be causing dissatisfaction among players.

I Just feel that for every player that actually puts uip a goodbye thread..maybe 10 others don’t bother, and just leave. The forums are FULL of players that tell the devs where there is enough weakness to dissatisfy, but the player still stays. it seems to me that information from Players that are so dissatisfied that they go over the line, anmd actually walk away, would be more valuable information, In My opinion.

GW2 is one of the first MMOs, since Everquest 2 (and GW1’s first game), that i even bothered to play to the end.

As far as i am concerned, their formula works for me, even though i have to admit, that i am put off by most of the classes in this game on an aesthetics level. And i wish the game’s professions was a little bit more like GW1s. I would have wanted the Mesmer to be a hard crowdcontrol type of class again. I’d love that. I am missing playing real crowdcontrol that can hardlock Mobs out of the game in PvP. And i miss the diversity Guild Wars 1 had. I liked to be able to mix and match whatever i wanted from 2 Professions, non the less. Here its a little sad that i am so limited in my abilities, and i wish we could have a little tweak to the Slot system, where we can add a 4th Utility skill into “ultimate” slot.

But, that being said…

I am fine with Guildwars 2 and i think i got more than my money’s worth. Although i am wondering if or when there will be an expansion. I like the open world PvE events, and i am not quite sure about the 1111 to victory. Maybe its because i am playing an Engineer mainly and are usually juggling kits like crazy, but i couldn’t say that i am upset how this game is set up.

I like that i do not have to find a group to have fun in this game. I like that, unless we talk about the maps in 60+ range, i can just run up to any event and most likely someone else will show up as well.

The Problem with Dungeons and such, in my opinion is mostly the Try-hards. I am fine with being a casual. I used to be a try-hard but its to much effort to be one in every game.

When i look at the Boss Rush in the current event, yeah, i get how upsetting it can be. People running at the boss, with an “what do i care” attitude. Its frustrating when you see people training a bunch of Veterans behind them, not bothering at all. Or how a handful of us are left to deal with them, because no one bothers about it. Or with Boom Booms turrets. people can scream about them as much as they want, right in the center of it, and still barely anyone bothers to go there.

But then again, i haven’t seen any MMO that ever was different from this. The days of Everquest 1 Raids are over, in my opinion. The majority of people can’t be bothered with them anymore. I certainly know i can’t. I might feel like i would want that level of depth again, but if i am entirely honest with myself, i just don’t believe an MMO designed with that design philosophy would make me stay for more than a couple days.

To much been there, done that in other MMOs, in the last 15 years, as far as i am concerned. I like the casual level of Guildwars 2. The whole drama that comes from having to have an endlevel Raiding guild, is just not worth the 2 hours fun of doing a big, highly organized Raid, in my book.

I am to old for that sh… .

Nekroseth.5186:

Excellent post.
I admire your writing skills. If I could point out problems this amazing way players would be raging and demanding content.
Sadly, there are to many trolls here that are happy with the current nothing basically.

“bloody care anymore.” That just made me smile :d hardly see anyone use “bloody” anymore..to bad. You Irish?

On the rest…Perfectly agree. I would say…nothing more to say, but there actually is…pages…maybe even books could be filled where they went wrong with a good idea.

On second thought trough, I admit it, I also think the biggest problem are class content. Maybe not 100% but to lack of class content combat became flat. You have 2-3 option each class that is forced on you, or you are useless.
Not to mention the favoritism of berserkers and bullkitten, that was supposed to be fixed by taking away trinity, but instead it only crippled the variety of combat, classes and the characters options.

Direction of content? I don’t understand why players even bother playing this game and dare to say they are playing RPG….“look we got a new jumping puzzle” is not a content for an RPG. It is, but not after you ONLY get them. And not a Guild Hall you can build up for example.
RPG dies when you cant wear any kind of armor you think of, and use any kind of weapon you like to your taste. (to my opinion, but that’s another topic)
Seriously there isn’t even a mention of classes in the game. It wont matter that you are a brutalic 10 iq barbarian warrior or a noble elementalist that is secretly planning to be a necromancer. It wont matter, the game wont let you decipher magic symbols on a locked door to open it, or give you a choice to bash open it….its not RPG….and I remember how they yelled : This will bring back the word RPG next to MMO…

Right now this isn’t even an mmo. Feels more like some facebook kitten, where I have a shared auction house. Truly you are right, hardly covers mmo.

I am personally struggling to decide what to do like a half year ago. I come back play a month then leave for again. Then I think, maybe they give us lots of content next week. Or info on explansion that can “save” the game. Like factions did to Gw1. Then I come back, and after a month I realize I don’t know what class to play, realize I hate them all, then I realize I hate the game itself. And uninstall cursing myself for wasting time on this kitten.

This aint the way to do mmo-s lads….

So, what is content for a RPG? Link’s Awakening had a lot of platforming. Does that make it not a RPG? Final Fantasy had a lot of side games. Does that make them not RPG?

What you’re saying is we should restrict what can come in a game.

Jumping Puzzles are a tiny portion of the game, and a lot of people enjoy them. So what gives you the right to take them away? JPs are hardly the only thing updates bring.

So what makes a MMO a MMO then? Massive Multiplayer Online. The game is online, it has massive numbers of players playing together, so why isn’kitten MMO?

yea, its actually useful information when done correctly, but it also looks negative, and would be fairly unorganized if they allowed it.

This thread will probably be closed tommorow though, they dont investigate deeply to decide a threads worth, they follow the rules first and foremost.

unless anet told them to be a little slower because they actually want some of this feedback now.

Im basing this on no information, but i believe that anet is probably getting a lot less people signing on for substantial time on a regular basis right now. *from NA/EU so this info is probably pretty relevant.

i think the dissatisfaction with GW2 right now is for a lot of reasons, none of which are not fixable. however it will probably be a lot of work, and time is an issue.

Honestly im thinking anet has another project, and this one may be suffering for it

^ GW2 seems fine for now, after ESO flopped hard and how by the look of things, Wildstar isn’t really a direct competitor.

However, there’s a tide of very good MMOs, at lot of them aimed at the same market as GW2 is targeting, and GW2 has a lot of problems which really could cripple it. Anet better have something good up their sleeves.

They’re going to close this thread, and absolutely ignore everything in it using the TOS (No “I’m Quitting” threads) as an excuse.

Don’t waste your breath. ArenaNet have their heads in the sand over GW2.

My suggestion is to putz around in it off and on if there are things you enjoy – otherwise just find another game you like or get out of the house and get some sun.

Being frustrated and annoyed at a game means it’s not fun, and games are supposed to be fun. Go have fun! Don’t waste your time or breath on ArenaNet.

Customers that quit are infinitely harder to reclaim than it is to retain customers considering leaving. Makes me question why people would think they’d give more than a passing thought as to why people left instead of giving more considering to the reasons people are considering leaving.

Anet’s business model is not different than any other company that seeks revenue such as a cellphone or cable company. A new customer brings a lot more profit than existing customers.

Right now Anet’s focus is purely on new customers and other regions. The game’s support is handed off to NCSoft general support and 100% of ANet dev team is focused on features to attract new players and support China.

A new customer spends $$ on buying the game plus initial $$ in the gem store for some stuff for a while until the realize this new pay to be disappointed model.

This is the reality. Get used to it.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Customers that quit are infinitely harder to reclaim than it is to retain customers considering leaving. Makes me question why people would think they’d give more than a passing thought as to why people left instead of giving more considering to the reasons people are considering leaving.

Because figuring out the reason customer A left could help keep customer B interested longer?

Nerelith.7360:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Drakent.9605:

I also agree with the OP,

GW2 feels more like a facebook video game version, is all about collecting dyed and customs and then show them off . GW2 should be call the other facebook, is just a social game.

The question is then, what should it be? I mean, why do we play MMOs? To play with other people. Why do we collect loot? To show them on our characters.

Doesn’t that make every MMO ‘just a social game’?

Not quite. See when I play World of Warcraft it is to level up My character, see what skills she developes. See How those skills Interact with Mobs, so that I can improve my skill… I am playing 3 Monks. Yes 3. there is a reason that if you Know World of warcraft you don’t really need explained, if you don’t or haven’t played well..no need to explain.

In gw2. By level 25 or 30 I have seen all the skills. Mostly after that it’s all refinement. Applying the right traits with the right polishing of already seen and experienced skills.

As an ex-raid leader in WoW I disagree. I can see where you are coming from but this was not my personal experience. I had probably about 8-9 max level characters in Cata (quit in MoP when I got sick of LFR/dailies/gear grind). Leveling was a breeze so I didn’t spend much time meddling with the nuances of any particular skill prior to max level. GW2 gives you new utility slots which kinda feels like WoW’s new skills.

Here is an example:
In WoW I mained a warlock. Eventually I got the lockbox skill. In GW2 I have a mesmer. Eventually (due to skill point requirements and it being further down the tree) I unlocked the portal utility skill. One is much more far reaching than the other but the cool down is WAY longer. One requires multiple players to activate, one does not.

GW2 does some things better (imo) than WoW. Gear grind? I’d rather grind out a set of legendary armor and have it be best in slot forever than grind out a purple set for at least 3 characters (so I can take up any missing spot in a raid) every 6-8 months… and then do the same raid over and over and over. After a while the gear treadmill felt like a waste of time – and it is because all that work gets flushed down the toilet the next update.

It seems to me that GW2 is trying to give players what they want but something is falling short and other than the loot problem I cannot say what exactly that is. They made pavilion and teq require organization. Players wanted a challenge and that was one answer. It sounds like players want more challenge (like queen’s gauntlet) so maybe adding new difficult content with a smarter AI is in order? I’m personally keep my fingers crossed for new dungeons, even if it makes it really hard to type!

This is all opinion and so in both our cases there is no “right” and no “wrong”. I also have played multiples of the same class in WoW and I play multiples of the same class in GW2. At the end of the day it’s about how you’d rather spend your time. Both WoW and GW2 have their strengths and if we were all on a WoW forum right now we’d be complaining about them instead and comparing them to what GW2 has to offer.

Nerelith.7360:

I Just feel that for every player that actually puts uip a goodbye thread..maybe 10 others don’t bother, and just leave. The forums are FULL of players that tell the devs where there is enough weakness to dissatisfy, but the player still stays. it seems to me that information from Players that are so dissatisfied that they go over the line, anmd actually walk away, would be more valuable information, In My opinion.

I agree with most with the opposite of the last part. Don’t only look at it when people go away but also when they give early warning. I complained about the cash-shop focus more then a year ago. Now it is a hot topic and partly the reason why many people leave.

People who ask for expansions or permanent content is also something that many people did ask for at the beginning of LS S1, not a year later there are likely people that leave because of it.

More specific roles (I think thats what OP in a way also talks about) is a complain on the forums for a long time. When you start listening when people leave you are to late imho. They should indeed listen to him / her but just kitten well to those that do not yet leave.

About the question if the devs should want this information. I often get the request to fill in a form to tell them why I install a product. So that shows that many companies to want that information.

Chuo.4238:

They’re going to close this thread, and absolutely ignore everything in it using the TOS (No “I’m Quitting” threads) as an excuse.

Don’t waste your breath. ArenaNet have their heads in the sand over GW2.

My suggestion is to putz around in it off and on if there are things you enjoy – otherwise just find another game you like or get out of the house and get some sun.

Being frustrated and annoyed at a game means it’s not fun, and games are supposed to be fun. Go have fun! Don’t waste your time or breath on ArenaNet.

This was discussed on an earlier page. Apparently the “No I’m Quitting Threads” part was removed from the forum rules, thus why this has not really been deleted…it isn’t breaking any rules and has actually spurned quite an interesting and constructive discussion.

A Request To Other Posters
Do not mention other games by name. Discussing other games by name and comparing them to GW2 is against forums rules and will likely close the thread. I really do not want to see this thread closed as there are several very good and constructive discussions taking place in it. It would be a shame to make the thread get closed because of mentioning other games by name.
Perhaps edit your previous posts to remove/replace the names of other games. It is obvious which one you are talking about, but it doesn’t really break any rules with the name of the game not being mentioned.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Customers that quit are infinitely harder to reclaim than it is to retain customers considering leaving. Makes me question why people would think they’d give more than a passing thought as to why people left instead of giving more considering to the reasons people are considering leaving.

As its been previously stated – the reasons the OP and/or other people that have left recently directly coincide with those that are thinking of leaving soon themselves.

Me, I’m not quitting the game – but I’m seriously disenchanted right now. It’s the whole ‘you have 2 weeks to a month to GRIND GRIND GRIND!’ for every event, with no useful rewards except mere cosmetics or toys that is burning me out.

Place that fast-paced cycle on top of an already intolerable ascended grind and it’s borderline disgusting.

Give me stuff that’s going to be permanently in the game that I can work at at my own pace. If I have two hours to play in a night I really shouldn’t feel pressured to grind the gauntlet till I’m sick of it just to earn gold in order to get ascended gear that’s really not gettable in any sane way otherwise.

Nor should I feel pressured to grind ANY event ‘or else’; it’s a cheap tactic and if it’s burning people out all I can say is it’s no wonder and good riddance; I hope these sorts of tactics end up forcing your numbers to take the patented Zynga plunge.

New minigames. New zones. New styles of play. That I’ll be able to play, as I wish, for the next five years or ten years, because they and the rewards for them are sticking around.

And for heaven’s sake, Arenanet. Stop pushing gems to gold conversion. It’s painfully obvious that the reason you’re not offering in-game ways to work towards rewards in a reasonable timescale and play fashion is because you want to sell people shortcuts. It’s wearing extremely thin.

Why can’t I farm t6 mats? Cuz the pricier and more time consuming they are to get, the better for the gem sales.

I seriously have to give kudos to you guys for at least awarding 1600 tokens – the price of a nice single reward – for this event’s relatively painless meta-achievement, but the fact that I am surprised that it happened.. is not good.

In any case, I’ve said this before. Less grind, more fun. You launched the game with that mantra – and since then, most every change has been a slow reversing of course. Ascended gear. Laurels. LS grindfests. Traits. Freaking kitten. I used to have so much good will for you guys.

Azhure.1857:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Customers that quit are infinitely harder to reclaim than it is to retain customers considering leaving. Makes me question why people would think they’d give more than a passing thought as to why people left instead of giving more considering to the reasons people are considering leaving.

As its been previously stated – the reasons the OP and/or other people that have left recently directly coincide with those that are thinking of leaving soon themselves.

Accurate, but does not address the issue of reclaiming that user. Fixing something that player A has an issue with but hasnt yet quit playing means that, because it’s fixed while they’re still playing they dont stop, and Anet doesnt need to do anything aside from put in the patch notes “hey, we fixed this, thought you should know.” Fixing something that player B had an issue with and quit because of it means that aside from fixing the issue, Anet now has to go through the painful process of getting that player back to the game, and that involves dealing with a player who may have decided to step away from the game 100%, regardless of any changes made to fix what they found wrong with it. It’s wasted effort, even if player A and player B are dealing with the exact same issue. Sure they’ll fix the issue, they’ll simply not make the choice to go through all of that effort to reclaim player B.

Adding more professions or having skill variety akin to GW1? Oh please, after almost two years, they can’t even fix the bugs we have right now, or test patches before introducing even new bugs. As a mesmer main, I stopped counting the times I’ve died due to iWardens doing nothing, getting stuck in terrain, etc.

The main problem with GW2 is not the game itself, but ANet’s lack of direction. A year ago they dangled a bunch of carrots (“take a look” at expansions, precursor crafting, profession bugs, feedback from LS1, etc.). Right now, not even the carrots are available, because they’re not even sure or haven’t decided where to take the game yet.

To the apologists, for every person that posts about quitting and gives a list of valid criticism, there are probably 100x out there that feel the same, but don’t post. Unless you can carry ANet and pay their bills by yourself, you should care about people quitting, especially those who still come back to provide feedback.

Aidan Savage.2078:

…patch notes…

This takes care of player A, player B, and any player after those two. Since ANet sends out emails almost every patch, and simply by clicking that email image, patch notes show up, those who are inclined to read it will and then will see they’ve fixed their issues and will gladly come back.

People aren’t jumping into a lake with giant squids here that they’re hesitant. It’s a game. Something that’s supposed to give enjoyment. If things are fixed, even if a person has quit, they’ll be more inclined to come back because it has been fixed. Why? Because of said enjoyment factor.

Do stop with your useless Player A and Player B. They’re both in the same boat. Someone who’s considering leaving might just be doing it because all his friends are, and once they’re gone, even fixes won’t stop him or her from leaving.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Azhure.1857:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Customers that quit are infinitely harder to reclaim than it is to retain customers considering leaving. Makes me question why people would think they’d give more than a passing thought as to why people left instead of giving more considering to the reasons people are considering leaving.

As its been previously stated – the reasons the OP and/or other people that have left recently directly coincide with those that are thinking of leaving soon themselves.

Accurate, but does not address the issue of reclaiming that user. Fixing something that player A has an issue with but hasnt yet quit playing means that, because it’s fixed while they’re still playing they dont stop, and Anet doesnt need to do anything aside from put in the patch notes “hey, we fixed this, thought you should know.” Fixing something that player B had an issue with and quit because of it means that aside from fixing the issue, Anet now has to go through the painful process of getting that player back to the game, and that involves dealing with a player who may have decided to step away from the game 100%, regardless of any changes made to fix what they found wrong with it. It’s wasted effort, even if player A and player B are dealing with the exact same issue. Sure they’ll fix the issue, they’ll simply not make the choice to go through all of that effort to reclaim player B.

are you not paying ANY attention? fixing player B’s issue might not bring them back to the game however it might stop player C and D from leaving too if they had the same problem player B had, fixing player As issue is also a priority but slighly lower because player a is only THINKING about leaving, player bs issue actually cause them to LEAVE so that should be focused on first to prevent more people from leaving

Might want to re-read what I posted so you realize that I’m talking about player A and B having the same issue. Make sense now?

phys.7689:

yea, its actually useful information when done correctly, but it also looks negative, and would be fairly unorganized if they allowed it.

This thread will probably be closed tommorow though, they dont investigate deeply to decide a threads worth, they follow the rules first and foremost.

unless anet told them to be a little slower because they actually want some of this feedback now.

Im basing this on no information, but i believe that anet is probably getting a lot less people signing on for substantial time on a regular basis right now. *from NA/EU so this info is probably pretty relevant.

i think the dissatisfaction with GW2 right now is for a lot of reasons, none of which are not fixable. however it will probably be a lot of work, and time is an issue.

Honestly im thinking anet has another project, and this one may be suffering for it

When a couple argues it looks negative. When a couple doesn’;t argue, the end is just around the corner.

I am Not saying playing a game like gw2 is of the same importance, but… they can be rather parallel.

I feel that especially with MMO’s Player to developer communication is very important. When all is sun, roses and rainbows, it’s awesome to log On the forums and share that feeling…but…it’s when things are hard that a relationship grows.

So things aren’t great , and posting about How bad some players feel " Looks negative" and many people will troll the threads because they don’t wanna hear it, and rather stick their heads in the sand… I get all that.

But… when there is no lively, discussion with differing views allowed…. shutting the servers is around the corner looming. Am I saying that is what is gonna happen with gw2? I hope not, I still lvoe this game…

But… if No one listens to anyone else simply because they say something they don’t wanna hear, and it " looks negative." the devs and the Players that are perferctly happy with content are living In a fishbowl, where only opinions they agree with are echoed back at them… and that way.. hardly ever leads to improvement.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Nerelith.7360:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Drakent.9605:

I also agree with the OP,

GW2 feels more like a facebook video game version, is all about collecting dyed and customs and then show them off . GW2 should be call the other facebook, is just a social game.

The question is then, what should it be? I mean, why do we play MMOs? To play with other people. Why do we collect loot? To show them on our characters.

Doesn’t that make every MMO ‘just a social game’?

Not quite. See when I play World of Warcraft it is to level up My character, see what skills she developes. See How those skills Interact with Mobs, so that I can improve my skill… I am playing 3 Monks. Yes 3. there is a reason that if you Know World of warcraft you don’t really need explained, if you don’t or haven’t played well..no need to explain.

In gw2. By level 25 or 30 I have seen all the skills. Mostly after that it’s all refinement. Applying the right traits with the right polishing of already seen and experienced skills.

“ok so Now aftert I use skill A, I get 5 seconds of vigor…. umm… " Yes, I am sure that those 5 seconds of vigor will be useful…but it’s NOT the same thing as Playing to level 85, and seeing an entirely new skill you’ve never seen before.

I think what makes this game more a 3d facebook is…after you have seen ALL the skills… you can Mostly spend your time chatting.." so…How was that Birthday party? " * Kill Troll*.." was good I got a new Blender.." * Kill Oak*… bla bl bla… * Kill bacon*…

The way I think of it…. World of Warcraft and the games that came before it, Including the Original Guild Wars…were games… and you socialized In them as a secondary thing..the primary thing was…exploring the game..and it’s skills.

for me Guild wars 2… feels Like… an excuse to get together with friends you make in the game… the Game itself is beginning, at least for me… to feel Like…something attached to a 3d social engine.

Not sure if I made sense….

When I Played EverQuest… a friend of Mine asked me that played with me." How would you discribe World of Warcraft?" I said " hmmm… as EverQuest Lite… with pretty colors."

I Guess I would describe gw2 is…" World of warcraft lite… with a More casual social, hey let’s all hang out while we kill karkas" feel."

Playing the game is beginning to feel like an afterthought.

To me, the socialising is the primary thing in MMOs, because frankly, gameplay is normally subpar to that of console games.

I havn’t played enough of WoW to understand what you mean, but even at 80, I’m still thinking of new builds. I do agree that the theory crafting is not very deep in here, its all just DPS stacking in PvE, and it’s quite awkward to do without a DPS meter however.

But to the average player, I’m not really sure it actually matters. For example, if you ask around in why people camp GS on warriors now, most people will just basically go ‘because Nike said so’. The average player doesn’t theory craft, because frankly, it takes hours to do on a spreadsheet and that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

In pure action games, yes consoles are superior. But for many other types of games, like RTS, a computer is the only way to go.

So it all depends on what type of game, and how they are implemented.

Retsuko.2035:

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

I was hardcore WvW on high tier servers. I was a commander that lead though TeamSpeak. But I eventually I got burnt out/bored. As fun as it was when I started, it eventually become the same thing over and over again.

Stack, Fire+blast, fight, stack, water+blast, portal bomb, fight, stack, fire+blast, etc

I am not saying WvW is not fun. But after doing “too much” of it, I realize it is indeed the same thing over and over again. The skill ceiling, even for WvW, is very low.

If the WvW skill ceiling is high there should be multiple type of zerg. Each zerg type would fulfill totally different roles in battle.

LOLWUT?

Yes it is true. If you look at RTSs like Rome: Total War, you see the players use a combination of different type of units. Each unit type has its strength and weakness. And each unit are to operate separately. They only come together if it is beneficial.

Instead, we only see in one kind of zerg in WvW. There are elementalist fields and mesmer portals. But there is only one kind of zerg. There is only one kind of zerg design. And in them there are elementalists and mesmers doing their thing.

There is no army formation possible. And after running this only ONE kind of zerg every day, using very similar tactics (after a while you would have seen everything), WvW gets boring.

CHIPS.6018:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Nerelith.7360:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Drakent.9605:

I also agree with the OP,

GW2 feels more like a facebook video game version, is all about collecting dyed and customs and then show them off . GW2 should be call the other facebook, is just a social game.

The question is then, what should it be? I mean, why do we play MMOs? To play with other people. Why do we collect loot? To show them on our characters.

Doesn’t that make every MMO ‘just a social game’?

Not quite. See when I play World of Warcraft it is to level up My character, see what skills she developes. See How those skills Interact with Mobs, so that I can improve my skill… I am playing 3 Monks. Yes 3. there is a reason that if you Know World of warcraft you don’t really need explained, if you don’t or haven’t played well..no need to explain.

In gw2. By level 25 or 30 I have seen all the skills. Mostly after that it’s all refinement. Applying the right traits with the right polishing of already seen and experienced skills.

“ok so Now aftert I use skill A, I get 5 seconds of vigor…. umm… " Yes, I am sure that those 5 seconds of vigor will be useful…but it’s NOT the same thing as Playing to level 85, and seeing an entirely new skill you’ve never seen before.

I think what makes this game more a 3d facebook is…after you have seen ALL the skills… you can Mostly spend your time chatting.." so…How was that Birthday party? " * Kill Troll*.." was good I got a new Blender.." * Kill Oak*… bla bl bla… * Kill bacon*…

The way I think of it…. World of Warcraft and the games that came before it, Including the Original Guild Wars…were games… and you socialized In them as a secondary thing..the primary thing was…exploring the game..and it’s skills.

for me Guild wars 2… feels Like… an excuse to get together with friends you make in the game… the Game itself is beginning, at least for me… to feel Like…something attached to a 3d social engine.

Not sure if I made sense….

When I Played EverQuest… a friend of Mine asked me that played with me." How would you discribe World of Warcraft?" I said " hmmm… as EverQuest Lite… with pretty colors."

I Guess I would describe gw2 is…" World of warcraft lite… with a More casual social, hey let’s all hang out while we kill karkas" feel."

Playing the game is beginning to feel like an afterthought.

To me, the socialising is the primary thing in MMOs, because frankly, gameplay is normally subpar to that of console games.

I havn’t played enough of WoW to understand what you mean, but even at 80, I’m still thinking of new builds. I do agree that the theory crafting is not very deep in here, its all just DPS stacking in PvE, and it’s quite awkward to do without a DPS meter however.

But to the average player, I’m not really sure it actually matters. For example, if you ask around in why people camp GS on warriors now, most people will just basically go ‘because Nike said so’. The average player doesn’t theory craft, because frankly, it takes hours to do on a spreadsheet and that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

In pure action games, yes consoles are superior. But for many other types of games, like RTS, a computer is the only way to go.

So it all depends on what type of game, and how they are implemented.

What do you mean with pure action? Arcade brainless shooting? Then yeah maybe on the other hand UT (PC) was still one of the best in that genre.

But overall a console is more build for ‘relaxing’ while PC-gamers want more depth and tactics and challenges in a game. So if with ‘pure action games’ you refer to ’ brainless shooters’ I can see where you are coming from but then I still look at a game like UT that proofs that even in that genre the PC can lead. But totally off-topic (or I do not see the connection?) I think so lets leave it with that and turn back to the topic.

CHIPS.6018:

Retsuko.2035:

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

I was hardcore WvW on high tier servers. I was a commander that lead though TeamSpeak. But I eventually I got burnt out/bored. As fun as it was when I started, it eventually become the same thing over and over again.

Stack, Fire+blast, fight, stack, water+blast, portal bomb, fight, stack, fire+blast, etc

I am not saying WvW is not fun. But after doing “too much” of it, I realize it is indeed the same thing over and over again. The skill ceiling, even for WvW, is very low.

If the WvW skill ceiling is high there should be multiple type of zerg. Each zerg type would fulfill totally different roles in battle.

LOLWUT?

Yes it is true. If you look at RTSs like Rome: Total War, you see the players use a combination of different type of units. Each unit type has its strength and weakness. And each unit are to operate separately. They only come together if it is beneficial.

Instead, we only see in one kind of zerg in WvW. There are elementalist fields and mesmer portals. But there is only one kind of zerg. There is only one kind of zerg design. And in them there are elementalists and mesmers doing their thing.

There is no army formation possible. And after running this only ONE kind of zerg every day, using very similar tactics (after a while you would have seen everything), WvW gets boring.

That has a lot to do with the lack of roles in this game. No not saying we need the holy trinity I say we need roles and that can be more then just tank, healer and dps.

In addition there should be room for more tactics in GW2. Other ways to get inside a keep (colour your own dolyak in another colour and hide inside it, player collision detection to create a human stair and more of that sort of things) lastly it would be good to have a more sandbox map where guilds build there own castles and fight / defend that. Possible even with guild-member housing inside there borders. Then there would be a reason to fight and defend in stead of only just flipping flags and moving on.

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

People do not complain about the fact of it “being possible or probable”, but the fact that after almost 2 years time, none of this de facto happened, while let’s say in GW1, already after 6 months time twice the permanent content of GW2 that you received within those 2 years had been added. Not to mention that quality-wise, it had been superior, too.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

People do not complain about the fact of it “being possible or probable”, but the fact that after almost 2 years time, none of this de facto happened, while let’s say in GW1, already after 6 months time twice the permanent content of GW2 that you received within those 2 years had been added. Not to mention that quality-wise, it had been superior, too.

I actually think the quality here is higher (my opinion), but the game is prone to bugs given its larger nature. Also given its “MMORPG” quality, I doubt just adding up all of those maps all of a sudden is a realistic expectation (to say nothing of a plan they may have to reveal maps on a schedule we know NOTHING about-of course, I have no evidence for this, but it just makes common sense to me… some players eat up content super fast, and if they revealed everything NOW, then there would TRULY be nothing new coming up in the horizon.)

(Given the above statement, I do hope they add a few maps at time, perhaps regions-groups of maps-vs single maps. I didn’t like the Southsun Cove single map addition, because it did feel beta-an unfinished idea-to me. But certainly not all-or even most-maps, as in my view that would be counter-productive.)

I think your love for GW1 is good, and it is a great game, but you sound like nostalgia is affecting your current views about GW2. This I say without trying to be an offensive jerk, and to be fair, you are most entitled to love GW1 over GW2-but even some GW1 lovers believe that GW2 is better in some ways (even if you think they may be “deluded” for thinking differently than you do-hopefully not), and that they are just two different games.

Here, on this forums, the vast majority of players consider GW1 superior in all aspects, not just few, to GW2. I’d love to see where your opinion comes from, though, as your view is rather striking to me.
It is not about nostalgia since I stopped playing the game long time ago knowing it was time to leave it, just like I left WoW after many years of playing.
It’s more about being objective, and by that there is no possible way to even have an opinion of the above, i.e. that quality-wise GW2 is better. It is just not right to say so. Why? Look at the random dialogues from GW1 story and GW2 living story – the latter feels as if it were made for 10-year-old children to please the masses, while GW1 was meant to be a niche game, which ironically, still sells better than GW2.
Furthermore, double class system, the variety in between builds, classes, variety and looks of skins and weapons – all that, even in spite of time, still looks and feels better in GW1.
The best way to illustrate this is to just start the GW1 and look at the ranger mechanic of the bow. There, in GW1, an arrow is taken from the back of the character and placed on the bowstring, while in GW2 you don’t see an arrow being placed on the bowstring – you can see it fired only. It is truly astonishing to see such a thing in a game that is so much older than GW2.
Overall, GW1 was better thought a game, undoubtedly. Although you may have some personal views regarding GW2 being better in some aspects, overall, as a game, it is hardly so to evidence it, I think.
To sum up, not being too much of a pessimist, I am aware that all this “dumbed down” content and idea of GW2 was to please the masses and get as many people into the game as possible, but unfortunately, for those remembering the times of advanced mechanics and complexity of some of the older MMOs like Lineage 1/2, EverQuest or even WoW ( which is now dumbed down, too, after recent game reworks demanded by “masses of players” ). Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s made for stupid people or children, I’m just saying we’re not going to see games as ambitious as they once were, all due to the idea of pleasing the masses and getting as much income as possible.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Here, on this forums, the vast majority of players consider GW1 superior in all aspects, not just few, to GW2. I’d love to see where your opinion comes from, though, as your view is rather striking to me.
It is not about nostalgia since I stopped playing the game long time ago knowing it was time to leave it, just like I left WoW after many years of playing.
It’s more about being objective, and by that there is no possible way to even have an opinion of the above, i.e. that quality-wise GW2 is better. It is just not right to say so. Why? Look at the random dialogues from GW1 story and GW2 living story – the latter feels as if it were made for 10-year-old children to please the masses, while GW1 was meant to be a niche game, which ironically, still sells better than GW2.
Furthermore, double class system, the variety in between builds, classes, variety and looks of skins and weapons – all that, even in spite of time, still looks and feels better in GW1.
The best way to illustrate this is to just start the GW1 and look at the ranger mechanic of the bow. There, in GW1, an arrow is taken from the back of the character and placed on the bowstring, while in GW2 you don’t see an arrow being placed on the bowstring – you can see it fired only. It is truly astonishing to see such a thing in a game that is so much older than GW2.
Overall, GW1 was better thought a game, undoubtedly. Although you may have some personal views regarding GW2 being better in some aspects, overall, as a game, it is hardly so to evidence it, I think.
To sum up, not being too much of a pessimist, I am aware that all this “dumbed down” content and idea of GW2 was to please the masses and get as many people into the game as possible, but unfortunately, for those remembering the times of advanced mechanics and complexity of some of the older MMOs like Lineage 1/2, EverQuest or even WoW ( which is now dumbed down, too, after recent game reworks demanded by “masses of players” ). Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s made for stupid people or children, I’m just saying we’re not going to see games as ambitious as they once were, all due to the idea of pleasing the masses and getting as much income as possible.

GW1 doesn’t have bow strings.

@Corpus Christi

I’m in the same boat as you. I find the dialogue in GW2 lacking compared to GW1 to an extent that, yeah, it feels dumbed down. Then agian I’m mainly a PvPer so it doesn’t matter to me as much.

I do find some hyperbole in your post though. Where are you getting the numbers to support your claim that GW1 out sells GW2? I just can’t believe that.

Also in GW1, the Ranger has an imaginary arrow before it shot, just like GW2.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Here, on this forums, the vast majority of players consider GW1 superior in all aspects, not just few, to GW2. I’d love to see where your opinion comes from, though, as your view is rather striking to me.
It is not about nostalgia since I stopped playing the game long time ago knowing it was time to leave it, just like I left WoW after many years of playing.
It’s more about being objective, and by that there is no possible way to even have an opinion of the above, i.e. that quality-wise GW2 is better. It is just not right to say so. Why? Look at the random dialogues from GW1 story and GW2 living story – the latter feels as if it were made for 10-year-old children to please the masses, while GW1 was meant to be a niche game, which ironically, still sells better than GW2.
Furthermore, double class system, the variety in between builds, classes, variety and looks of skins and weapons – all that, even in spite of time, still looks and feels better in GW1.
The best way to illustrate this is to just start the GW1 and look at the ranger mechanic of the bow. There, in GW1, an arrow is taken from the back of the character and placed on the bowstring, while in GW2 you don’t see an arrow being placed on the bowstring – you can see it fired only. It is truly astonishing to see such a thing in a game that is so much older than GW2.
Overall, GW1 was better thought a game, undoubtedly. Although you may have some personal views regarding GW2 being better in some aspects, overall, as a game, it is hardly so to evidence it, I think.
To sum up, not being too much of a pessimist, I am aware that all this “dumbed down” content and idea of GW2 was to please the masses and get as many people into the game as possible, but unfortunately, for those remembering the times of advanced mechanics and complexity of some of the older MMOs like Lineage 1/2, EverQuest or even WoW ( which is now dumbed down, too, after recent game reworks demanded by “masses of players” ). Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s made for stupid people or children, I’m just saying we’re not going to see games as ambitious as they once were, all due to the idea of pleasing the masses and getting as much income as possible.

Again, I do not mean to offend but it seems just bias confirmation in your case. Your friends happen to agree with your stance, which then seems to reinforce the idea that “most” GW1 players must dislike GW2.

Then again, as I stated, it’s your right to wholly prefer GW1 on each and every account; but you are assuming a lot by saying “most GW1 players” must think the way you do. Even I wouldn’t say that “most GW1 now prefer GW2”. In fact, many players will be biased against GW1 if they already have a bias against “modern” MMORPGs, which you seem to be. And that’s fine too (I myself and not a true fan of the classic MMORPG-GW2 actually removes some of the parts I dislike about them). But since they are so different, it’s more of an apples and oranges situation than a fair, equal comparison. GW1 was great, and so is GW2, they are just different kind of beasts (though you may disagree on the latter, which is OK.)

I do not mean to derail the thread, so let’s just agree to disagree and leave the OP to his/her thread, which BTW I think is unnecessary, but the moderators do have the last word.

(I can give a DEFINITE thing GW1 has over GW2, that is not related to game being different types-the camera view on GW2 is honestly pretty badly implemented! Whatever camera they used for GW1 works better. Their final choice of camera technology should be revised, IMHO. It just doesn’t work on close encounters/close to walls.)

(The new targeting system is also a bit faulty, but that may indeed be part of it being “MMORPG” and GW1 being simpler-I do prefer that when I press on “target nearest” it ALWAYS targets nearest, even if it’s not on camera view-but that my conflict with what MMORPG people are used to, which is too bad for many of us.)

(I am also sorry if I have misrepresented you or assumed things that you don’t believe in. Just carry on, and don’t mind me anymore.)

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

Star Ace.5207:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Here, on this forums, the vast majority of players consider GW1 superior in all aspects, not just few, to GW2. I’d love to see where your opinion comes from, though, as your view is rather striking to me.
It is not about nostalgia since I stopped playing the game long time ago knowing it was time to leave it, just like I left WoW after many years of playing.
It’s more about being objective, and by that there is no possible way to even have an opinion of the above, i.e. that quality-wise GW2 is better. It is just not right to say so. Why? Look at the random dialogues from GW1 story and GW2 living story – the latter feels as if it were made for 10-year-old children to please the masses, while GW1 was meant to be a niche game, which ironically, still sells better than GW2.
Furthermore, double class system, the variety in between builds, classes, variety and looks of skins and weapons – all that, even in spite of time, still looks and feels better in GW1.
The best way to illustrate this is to just start the GW1 and look at the ranger mechanic of the bow. There, in GW1, an arrow is taken from the back of the character and placed on the bowstring, while in GW2 you don’t see an arrow being placed on the bowstring – you can see it fired only. It is truly astonishing to see such a thing in a game that is so much older than GW2.
Overall, GW1 was better thought a game, undoubtedly. Although you may have some personal views regarding GW2 being better in some aspects, overall, as a game, it is hardly so to evidence it, I think.
To sum up, not being too much of a pessimist, I am aware that all this “dumbed down” content and idea of GW2 was to please the masses and get as many people into the game as possible, but unfortunately, for those remembering the times of advanced mechanics and complexity of some of the older MMOs like Lineage 1/2, EverQuest or even WoW ( which is now dumbed down, too, after recent game reworks demanded by “masses of players” ). Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s made for stupid people or children, I’m just saying we’re not going to see games as ambitious as they once were, all due to the idea of pleasing the masses and getting as much income as possible.

Again, I do not mean to offend but it seems just bias confirmation in your case. Your friends happen to agree with your stance, which then seems to reinforce the idea that “most” GW1 players must dislike GW2.

Then again, as I stated, it’s your right to wholly prefer GW1 on each and every account; but you are assuming a lot by saying “most GW1 players” must think the way you do. Even I wouldn’t say that “most GW1 now prefer GW2”. In fact, many players will be biased against GW1 if they already have a bias against “modern” MMORPGs, which you seem to be. And that’s fine too (I myself and not a true fan of the classic MMORPG-GW2 actually removes some of the parts I dislike about them). But since they are so different, it’s more of an apples and oranges situation than a fair, equal comparison. GW1 was great, and so is GW2, they are just different kind of beasts (though you may disagree on the latter, which is OK.)

I do not mean to derail the thread, so let’s just agree to disagree and leave the OP to his/her thread, which BTW I think is unnecessary, but the moderators do have the last word.

(I can give a DEFINITE thing GW1 has over GW2, that is not related to game being different types-the camera view on GW2 is honestly pretty badly implemented! Whatever camera they used for GW1 works better. Their final choice of camera technology should be revised, IMHO. It just doesn’t work on close encounters/close to walls.)

(The new targeting system is also a bit faulty, but that may indeed be part of it being “MMORPG” and GW1 being simpler-I do prefer that when I press on “target nearest” it ALWAYS targets nearest, even if it’s not on camera view-but that my conflict with what MMORPG people are used to, which is too bad for many of us.)

(I am also sorry if I have misrepresented you or assumed things that you don’t believe in. Just carry on, and don’t mind me anymore.)

As I am a lawyer, pardon me for trying to point to your logical and argument-construing mistakes, but where in my previous posts did I mention any of my friends? I have never mentioned that. I mentioned the prevailling topics in the recent months comparing GW2 to other MMO games, inter alia, GW1. You may have been abstent, so this misunderstanding on your part is forgiven.

Please, stick to the words that I de facto use, otherwise the discussion is pointless.

Plus, I am not sure you are aware of the meaning of “confirmation bias”. Finally, as your conclusion based on using the words I have never spoken or written is incorrect nevertheless, the confrimation bias is misued by your here, too.

Cheers

Devata.6589:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up. I am not talking about the “evolution” of maps like Kessex Hills or Lion’s Arch. Nor maps ala Southsun Cove. I am referring to those maps currently blacked out, but with named regions. They will surely open up permanently in due time (my “surely” is mostly my opinion rather than any “facts” I may have, but I am fairly convinced this will be the case.)

Living story is fine, IMHO-it’s also not mutually exclusive with future permanent content, as many of you seem to believe. They would know better than that, and we should know better than to think that all they will do moving forwards in this game is giving us LS updates with no more map expansions and “zero” permanent content (which isn’t factual either, as some permanent content and sizeable changes have been added over time.)

Star Ace.5207:

Devata.6589:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.

If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?

Corpus Christi.2057:

As I am a lawyer, pardon me to trying to point to your logical and argument-construing mistakes, but where in my previous posts did I mention any of my friends? I have never mentioned that. I mentioned the prevailling topics in the recent months comparing GW2 to other MMO games, inter alia, GW1. You may have been abstent, so this misunderstanding on your part is forgiven.

Please, stick to the words that I de facto use, otherwise the discussion is pointless.

Plus, I am not sure you are aware of the meaning of “confirmation bias”. Finally, as your conclusion based on using the words I have never spoken or written is incorrect nevertheless, the confrimation bias is misued by your here, too.

Cheers

I actually thought of revising my stated thoughts because I KNEW you didn’t mention any “friends”. But I didn’t have the time or inclination to be super-precise, as I thought you would know what I meant (you mentioned people in these forums, not “friends”, and I assumed you would think the same rather than focus on my “mistake” in addressing you). However, I do not appreciate the way you have chosen to discuss this issue moving forwards, so please do not address me on this matter again. I have been most gracious in allowing you the freedom to believe as you will, and I hope you let me do the same-feel free to be “right” in your mind, as I gain nothing from “proving” others right or wrong, nor I find any value on debating on such frivolous matters (truly, no offense intended, but I don’t care to debate with you or most people for that matter, especially concerning these games.)

NewTrain.7549:

Star Ace.5207:

Devata.6589:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.

If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?

He’s betting. It’s a sound bet, though, for a simple reason: if it doesn’t happen, the game dies. Why? People’s been complaining about lack of solid, fresh and expansion-worthy permanent content for months now. The devs must have noticed it by now. It’s both a bet and a hope.

Corpus Christi.2057:

NewTrain.7549:

Star Ace.5207:

Devata.6589:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.

If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?

He’s betting. It’s a sound bet, though, for a simple reason: if it doesn’t happen, the game dies. Why? People’s been complaining about lack of solid, fresh and expansion-worthy permanent content for months now. The devs must have noticed it by now. It’s both a bet and a hope.

If I was playing roulette and for 20 months straight it never landed on black, I certainly wouldn’t bet on black.

Star Ace.5207:

Devata.6589:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up. I am not talking about the “evolution” of maps like Kessex Hills or Lion’s Arch. Nor maps ala Southsun Cove. I am referring to those maps currently blacked out, but with named regions. They will surely open up permanently in due time (my “surely” is mostly my opinion rather than any “facts” I may have, but I am fairly convinced this will be the case.)

Living story is fine, IMHO-it’s also not mutually exclusive with future permanent content, as many of you seem to believe. They would know better than that, and we should know better than to think that all they will do moving forwards in this game is giving us LS updates with no more map expansions and “zero” permanent content (which isn’t factual either, as some permanent content and sizeable changes have been added over time.)

I did not say they would not come. They will come in fact most people had expected them already in season one. Personally I would even prefer them in expansions so Anet can earn money with expansions in stead of the cash-shop.

My point was just that if people complain about “temporary content” that it does not equal the lack of new expansion-like content. Most people complain about both but you said “To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come.” and then talked about new maps. So you seemingly referred to complains about temporary content and then said there where maps coming like f that would solve the temporary content problem but it doesn’t.

Summarized: The problem of temporary content is not just the lack of permanent content.

LS might be fine to you but not to many other.

NewTrain.7549:

Corpus Christi.2057:

NewTrain.7549:

Star Ace.5207:

Devata.6589:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.

If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?

He’s betting. It’s a sound bet, though, for a simple reason: if it doesn’t happen, the game dies. Why? People’s been complaining about lack of solid, fresh and expansion-worthy permanent content for months now. The devs must have noticed it by now. It’s both a bet and a hope.

If I was playing roulette and for 20 months straight it never landed on black, I certainly wouldn’t bet on black.

Actually not just a bet-just see the map and all the blacked out regions. If you played the original, you know how important some of these regions were. Add that up to the remaining dragons needed to be slain, and that’s the only solution-permanent maps, and permanent content as we move forward.

Of course, I may be wrong-it may just be “hopeless hope”-but I would actually not bet against myself on this one. Only way this wouldn’t be happening the way I see things-and again, I offer no evidence to my words-is if the game stopped being developed all of the sudden, but I don’t think they will just turn their backs on their game and leave it unfinished, as it were.

Rather than blind faith, I am actually connecting the dots and using common sense. If I am wrong, so be it. My more hopeful but less likely outcomes would be, once again, the Realm of Torment, and paying back a visit to Palawa Joko. That would be great, but I would have less dots to connect (and more hope) on those ones.

I’m completely flabbergasted this thread made it three days and four pages without getting locked. Most other “goodbye” threads are pounced upon and closed in other forums I frequent.

With that said, I completely agree with the OP insofar as much of the game that I experienced before walking away. Nothing drew me in and made me want to keep playing it to the max levels.

Basically, I believe the truth to be thus:

You don’t have to make a good MMO, or a fun MMO, to make tons of money off of people who forget what fun really is, and want to buy or grind their way to some collection of digital pixels that they don’t even actually own.

All you have to do is offer said pixels for money – and put a pretty face on it.

It’s sad, but I think that this is what most MMO’s have become. It’s no longer about the game – it’s about how much money you can make for the least amount of effort.

Which is why I find myself playing less and less…of all MMO’s…but especially this one

Chuo.4238:

Basically, I believe the truth to be thus:

You don’t have to make a good MMO, or a fun MMO, to make tons of money off of people who forget what fun really is, and want to buy or grind their way to some collection of digital pixels that they don’t even actually own.

All you have to do is offer said pixels for money – and put a pretty face on it.

It’s sad, but I think that this is what most MMO’s have become. It’s no longer about the game – it’s about how much money you can make for the least amount of effort.

Which is why I find myself playing less and less…of all MMO’s…but especially this one

Preach on, brother. More and more – I just have this feeling that MMOs as a totality, the entire genre, is bunk. I don’t see any other game genre – single or multiplayer – using such persistently manipulative, cheesily anti-player tactics, and thriving for very long.