Guild Wars 2

Math in the Guard forums? It affects each class approximately the same, don’t tell me you calculated with skill damage.

Everyone looses about 20% crit damage, wich results with 50% crit chance into about 10% damage reduction. Yea.

I’m pretty sure the entire change is directed more towards WvW where the world isn’t just all zerker all the time, and also to add a bit more challenge to the PvE.

Everyone will still go all zerker, but it will take approximately 10% longer to kill stuff, which is 10% longer that you have to dodge.

Actually it’s more a “bugfix”. They want a system in the game and a direct “+8% crit damage” isn’t what they wanted and I totally agree with them.
Every Item has 3 stats, the main stat grants 100% effectivness, the other 2 each 70% – ALLWAYS – except for crit damage. Trinket gave too much and so there comes the fix.

Next they need to get that condition stacking fixed.

I haven’t read through 5 pages of this stuff, but anything declaring something we haven’t even seen in action yet as “failed” gets an automatic dismissal.

Nightarch.2943:

ArenaNet should be merging stats, not creating more.

I actually agree here completely; they need to just merge Precision and Ferocity together, slightly reducing the power of each effect but providing them both at once.

Xyonon.3987:

Math in the Guard forums? It affects each class approximately the same, don’t tell me you calculated with skill damage.

Everyone looses about 20% crit damage, wich results with 50% crit chance into about 10% damage reduction. Yea.

We actually lose about 35% – 50% crit damage. And in a buffed up group that ranges between 16% to 20% damage lost depending on the class and build.

Zoid.2568:

Ferocity is THE solution. Crit damage now scale down better and Berserker is less effective which means you may not want a team full of zerkers.

While I agree that crit damage needs to be toned down… and ferocity seems to be a solution, I think I Understand his point.

If you look at Berserker gear, it is Power, precision, and Critical damage. if you decrease critical damage in this set, the Power remains the same. so samage ONLY drops 10 % On the highest gear.

now let’s Look at another set of gear… I am not familiar with what sets are available so excuse me if i Invent a set that doesn’t exist.

Let’s say it has Precision, Crit damage, and Toughness.

Or Precision, crit damage, and Vitality.

assuming runes and sigils remain the same so we Only consider the effect of the nerf to crit damage alone on these other sets… the damage on THESE sets comes from crit damage. Since there is NO power, then for the Berserker set to experience a 10 % nerf without affecting Power. then the critical damage part of the equation needs to be MORE than 10 % nerfed.

That means that whatever nerf the critical damage portion experiences will be even more in other gear that has critical damage, and does Not have Power.

I want to again express…. and if anyone has read My posts they know, I applaud the nerf to critical damage, I do think that " serker’s and zerg" is a Horrid meta for gw2.

But OP has a point. The nerf to critical damage does affect other gear sets more….

One solution has to be that the Non-precision, non crit damage part of the gear needs to be further compensated. But… that doesn’t matter if damage alone is enough to plow through content.

Mob AI needs to be adjusted. Mobs need More than a massive health Pool, and that Non-control stacking stat. ( forget what it is)

Why boither with a control build if Bosses cannot be controlled?
Why bother with a heal build, if trash mobs are so stupid they can just be LoS’d and stacked, then Killed with damage alone?

Why bother with toughness or Vitality, if all that does is reduce power, or will nerfing power be next?

I Love this game, but while nerfing critical damage is a good start, that is ALL it is,..a start, and a simplistic one at that. The Devs need to change the Mobs in the game…

Give them Higer armor, so that damage alone is not the total solution, and conditions suddenly has a place.

Give some a weakness to ONE or two types of conditions, but maybe added resistance to others? (Ice elementals weak to fire??? But strong against… ice?) Suddenly the encounter requires more thought.

make it so that mobs do not telegraph their attacks, so they one Hit some characters, but hit MORE often with weaker hits… that means suddenly you cannot dodge ALL attacks.. and will get hit… yes for less…but still get hit. That means.. you might benefit from either more vitality, or more toughness.

Suddenly other gear becomes viable, …and …other classes become viable. ( necros, Rangers and Engi’s …Oh my.)

I am just tossing ideas out there. MOB AI needs to be overhauled, and changed…Mobs basic toughness and Health… Mob attacks… etc… I believe the devs have more In store to address this meta beyond " let’s nerf crit damage."

I think that we were promised that while No class would be limited to Only One dynamic…( Control, damage, support) we were told that all classes would be able to play all three roles i they wished…some better than others is expected.

The problem as I see it is Gw2 as it is Now… DOES give everyone the tools to do Control, Support and damage, but it seems all anyone needs is damage.

What is the point of giving us an awesome Multi-sized screwdriver set… with both Phillips and straight edge….if all that needs to be done, can be done with a hack saw?

Nerelith.7360:

make it so that mobs do not telegraph their attacks, so they one Hit some characters, but hit MORE often with weaker hits… that means suddenly you cannot dodge ALL attacks.. and will get hit… yes for less…but still get hit. That means.. you might benefit from either more vitality, or more toughness.

Suddenly other gear becomes viable, …and …other classes become viable. ( necros, Rangers and Engi’s …Oh my.)

Not a fan of this idea at all. Removing cues that a big attack is coming simply forces a new learning curve. As it is now, people have done dungeons so many times that they know what each animation means. Changing OHK animations so they’re not obvious just means having to learn the new animations, but once people do, we’re back to where we are now —with the practice effect trivializing group play.

That is, unless you’re planning to remove all attack animations completely — but from your paragraph, I’d say not. Maybe you’re thinking to make all the attacks look the same? If that’s the case, you’d be forcing everyone into survival gear. It’s one thing when the players demand a certain type of set-up, it’s another when the game does. Currently, all gear sets are viable. You’re talking about a change that would make survival gear mandatory.

Nerelith.7360:

I think that we were promised that while No class would be limited to Only One dynamic…( Control, damage, support) we were told that all classes would be able to play all three roles i they wished…some better than others is expected.

The problem as I see it is Gw2 as it is Now… DOES give everyone the tools to do Control, Support and damage, but it seems all anyone needs is damage.

What is the point of giving us an awesome Multi-sized screwdriver set… with both Phillips and straight edge….if all that needs to be done, can be done with a hack saw?

What I see in group play in GW2 is twofold. The meta groups, by and large, are using support and damage. Only some coordinated groups are using control. Some meta groups do very well, some struggle to a greater or lesser degree. Uncoordinated groups are doing whatever they fell like doing — and having a harder time in the dungeons than the coordinated ones. This tells me that support and perhaps control are already in use, and that they do play a role in success.

Ultimately, ANet is adding group content with more interesting mechanics, albeit slowly. I very much doubt that they will retool the AI for every mob in the game, though. It’s much less resource intensive to tweak numbers in a spreadsheet and try to fix perceived problems that way. Maybe they’ll gradually replace all dungeon paths as they did with TA Aetherpath.

You may believe that ANet’s talk about “other changes to address the meta” means they will overhaul all mob AI — but I have less faith. I consider it more likely that they will tweak other numbers, instead. What those will be, now that the obvious target of critical damage has been nerfed, remains to be seen.

[quote=3819911;Nerelith.7360 I want to again express…. and if anyone has read My posts they know, I applaud the nerf to critical damage, I do think that " serker’s and zerg" is a Horrid meta for gw2.

But OP has a point. The nerf to critical damage does affect other gear sets more….
[/quote]

I am a little unclear on this statement. Anyone who doesn’t like the current zerker meta should be against this change, as it decreases the damage output more for hybrid and other builds that go less into full zerker gear. Try the exercise with a build that went for just berserker trinkets to bolster damage, or ruby jewels, or trait lines that bolster crit damage and you will see that they lose proportionally more of their damage. An ascended armor set, however, loses only the equivalent of 20 points in the new ferocity stat. For builds that started with less damage to begin with, this puts them even further behind compared to the full berserker geared builds.

I can’t agree with those who state that this change can’t be called a failure because it hasn’t gone into effect yet. It inhibits build diversity, which is the very thing it was stated to be designed to enhance.

All this change is doing is making condition tank builds more op in wvw.
Berzerker will still be the meta in pve. Which means for many players it makes it so you want two sets of gear- one for pve and one for wvw. I think this nerf is to make that divide larger and to nerf celestial so that it is less useful as an easy middle ground. So that they keep you in the gear grind treadmill longer.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nerelith.7360:

make it so that mobs do not telegraph their attacks, so they one Hit some characters, but hit MORE often with weaker hits… that means suddenly you cannot dodge ALL attacks.. and will get hit… yes for less…but still get hit. That means.. you might benefit from either more vitality, or more toughness.

Suddenly other gear becomes viable, …and …other classes become viable. ( necros, Rangers and Engi’s …Oh my.)

Not a fan of this idea at all. Removing cues that a big attack is coming simply forces a new learning curve. As it is now, people have done dungeons so many times that they know what each animation means. Changing OHK animations so they’re not obvious just means having to learn the new animations, but once people do, we’re back to where we are now —with the practice effect trivializing group play.

That is, unless you’re planning to remove all attack animations completely — but from your paragraph, I’d say not. Maybe you’re thinking to make all the attacks look the same? If that’s the case, you’d be forcing everyone into survival gear. It’s one thing when the players demand a certain type of set-up, it’s another when the game does. Currently, all gear sets are viable. You’re talking about a change that would make survival gear mandatory.

Nerelith.7360:

I think that we were promised that while No class would be limited to Only One dynamic…( Control, damage, support) we were told that all classes would be able to play all three roles i they wished…some better than others is expected.

The problem as I see it is Gw2 as it is Now… DOES give everyone the tools to do Control, Support and damage, but it seems all anyone needs is damage.

What is the point of giving us an awesome Multi-sized screwdriver set… with both Phillips and straight edge….if all that needs to be done, can be done with a hack saw?

What I see in group play in GW2 is twofold. The meta groups, by and large, are using support and damage. Only some coordinated groups are using control. Some meta groups do very well, some struggle to a greater or lesser degree. Uncoordinated groups are doing whatever they fell like doing — and having a harder time in the dungeons than the coordinated ones. This tells me that support and perhaps control are already in use, and that they do play a role in success.

Ultimately, ANet is adding group content with more interesting mechanics, albeit slowly. I very much doubt that they will retool the AI for every mob in the game, though. It’s much less resource intensive to tweak numbers in a spreadsheet and try to fix perceived problems that way. Maybe they’ll gradually replace all dungeon paths as they did with TA Aetherpath.

You may believe that ANet’s talk about “other changes to address the meta” means they will overhaul all mob AI — but I have less faith. I consider it more likely that they will tweak other numbers, instead. What those will be, now that the obvious target of critical damage has been nerfed, remains to be seen.

I think I may have been unclear, so let me explain. Having a few HUGE attacks that are totally avoidable, by simply dodging, because the Mob telegraphs the attack, means all you need do is dodge.

By reducing the damage of attacks,. so that they do not " One shot" players..but Increasing the frequency…. you keep the damage / time constant, while at the same time delivering More blows than can be completely avoided by the dodge mechanic.

Suddenly retaliation, and Protection has value. Suddenly having toughness In armor has value, suddenly having vitality has value.

That dungeon groups suddenly need to " relearn the mechanics.."

Not really a convincing argument for me. I do not see that Anet needs to keep the game a specific way, simply because " this is what I am used to." if the changes actually improve the game experiene for more people…. why is it important that some players will .." Not Like change"?

So you have to get used to other cues… but the whole Point is… why not simply increase the number of attacks… and reduce their damage, this way the attacks cannot be avoided, and toughness… Ok I’m repeating myself… but…

It seems to me your main objection seems to be ’ even if it improves the game for other players….. I won’t Like it, cause it will keep me from Playing as I play this Moment."

that doesn’t seem to be to be a convincing argument. " It should remain as it is, not because it is better, but Just because it’s the way I like it"

Nerelith.7360:

I think I may have been unclear, so let me explain. Having a few HUGE attacks that are totally avoidable, by simply dodging, because the Mob telegraphs the attack, means all you need do is dodge.

By reducing the damage of attacks,. so that they do not " One shot" players..but Increasing the frequency…. you keep the damage / time constant, while at the same time delivering More blows than can be completely avoided by the dodge mechanic.

Suddenly retaliation, and Protection has value. Suddenly having toughness In armor has value, suddenly having vitality has value.

This. It’s okay to have attacks that punish, but too often in GW2, there are attacks that are pretty much OHK. If an attack knocks me down to 20% of my life, I panic. I scramble. I do something. The point is I do something. I get a chance to make up for the mistake, to recover, and stay in the fight. Being made insta-dead is frustrating, not fun, and just plain cheap. It’s based on old-school mechanics that should be left behind.

Big question is, how do we make other builds more viable?
Increase the condition cap on world bosses. I can make one character that bleeds for 11 stacks. 25 stacks is a joke. 100 stacks is at least reasonable for a group of 20. If duration is an issue, have those bosses cut durations so that more players can contribute.
There’s a troubling rumor I’ve heard: Crit damage doesn’t apply to bosses? If this is false, ignore. If it’s true, this is ridiculous. Two of the most prevalent builds are Condition and Crit.
As it is, the best builds for non-PvP content are Power/Toughness builds.

SakuraJD.4720:

DeceiverX.8361:

….because 10% damage overall includes damage dealt by non-critical strikes, thus…

I’m sorry… what? are you dense? they’re saying the decrease to crit damage results in an overall loss, not that they are reducing POWER by 10%. non-crit strikes will still be just as powerful(or not, depending on your point of view) as they were before.

Nah, the dense one is you. Damage output of a character includes ALL the damage they inflict. For an easy to follow example, we’ll use the following numbers: 1k damage flat per non-crit hit, 30% critical hit chance, 50% critical damage.

For a small statistical average, we’ll use 10 attacks. With a 30% crit rate, the statistical average is 3 hits in 10, which means 7 hits at 1k damage. Critical hits, of which there are 3, would deal 2k damage. Total damage over 10 hits? 13k damage. Average damage a hit? 1.3k per hit.

Now, lets assume again for simplicity, that the crit damage change means this character has 0% crit damage boosts after the update. Using the rest of the numbers, the critical damage now only deals 1.5k a hit. This brings the total to 11.5k in all. Average becomes 1.15k damage. A 10% loss of 1.3k is .13k, which brings it down to 1.17k, slightly higher than what the “true” measure is.

If you still dont get it: YES the non crit hits stay the same. THEIR contribution to your overall damage DOES NOT CHANGE. Critical hits, that DO CONTRIBUTE to your overall damage, are being reduced.

Also, this update only screws over builds with crit damage in them and people are relying on that crit damage. PVT doesnt change one bit, neither does any other armor without crit damage.

Rauderi.8706:

There’s a troubling rumor I’ve heard: Crit damage doesn’t apply to bosses? If this is false, ignore. If it’s true, this is ridiculous.

It highly depends on the boss, and in most cases, which phase the boss is in. If the boss is classed a structure (which cant be critically hit) like Tequatl is, if you’re wearing zerker there, you’re playing more stupid than a cleric staff guard in CoF. Fighting teq, PVT gear runs supreme.
Bosses like the jungle wurm in bloodtide coast are a mixed case. Each wurm head has 2 phases. Phase one it’s a structure (and you’d want pvt for it), but when it reaches phase two, it is no longer classed as a structure (and zerker is optional because the boss still hits hard enough to down zerker pretty fast).

Nerelith.7360:

I think I may have been unclear, so let me explain. Having a few HUGE attacks that are totally avoidable, by simply dodging, because the Mob telegraphs the attack, means all you need do is dodge.

By reducing the damage of attacks,. so that they do not " One shot" players..but Increasing the frequency…. you keep the damage / time constant, while at the same time delivering More blows than can be completely avoided by the dodge mechanic.

Suddenly retaliation, and Protection has value. Suddenly having toughness In armor has value, suddenly having vitality has value.

That dungeon groups suddenly need to " relearn the mechanics.."

Not really a convincing argument for me. I do not see that Anet needs to keep the game a specific way, simply because " this is what I am used to." if the changes actually improve the game experiene for more people…. why is it important that some players will .." Not Like change"?

So you have to get used to other cues… but the whole Point is… why not simply increase the number of attacks… and reduce their damage, this way the attacks cannot be avoided, and toughness… Ok I’m repeating myself… but…

It seems to me your main objection seems to be ’ even if it improves the game for other players….. I won’t Like it, cause it will keep me from Playing as I play this Moment."

that doesn’t seem to be to be a convincing argument. " It should remain as it is, not because it is better, but Just because it’s the way I like it"

So you’re only advocating revising mob AI to attack more like players? Seemed to me you were advocating that the faster, lesser-damage hits would be interspersed with massive hits, but that the tells would be less obvious (or missing). Massive hits delivered by players generally have obvious tells, stealth thieves notwithstanding.

You also seem intent on trying to invalidate my post by insinuating that I’m thinking selfishly. Pointing out issues with your idea is not selfish, it’s applying critical thinking to a proposal. I wouldn’t object to mobs behaving more like players. However, at least half of my objections were about removing the telegraphing of massive hits. The other half is that I think that there are some issues around the rationale behind your proposal.

• Changing the “required” gear for optimal dungeon completion does nothing for build diversity. If a mix of glass and survival gear is optimal (or all survival gear), that will be the new meta.
• Other than providing damage-related gear, in-party roles are not really tied to gear very much, if at all. Forcing the inclusion of some (or all) survival gear changes nothing with regard to role diversity. That said, increasing mob damage may place more of an emphasis on the use of defensive buffs like reflection and protection (see high-level FotM).
• Increasing the difficulty of group content (because that would be the result) would mean that the group content would be less accessible. Maybe that’s a good thing, but it’s a factor that needs to be considered — especially with the dearth of new dungeons in GW2.
• We have seen and probably will continue to see new mobs with different mechanics, but how likely is ANet to spend the resources to change mob AI game-wide? Bear in mind that dungeons have remained untouched — except for the replacement of one TA path, and the incorporation of some LS temporary dungeon elements into FotM — for over a year. While a game-wide change to mob AI would be welcomed by some players, I believe it’s an unrealistic expectation, and that it might be better to try to find solutions that are more likely to happen. Now, ANet may surprise me, but so far their surprises have not been overly positive — so perhaps you will forgive my doubt.

I don’t think you get it. Crit-damage based damage is supposed to be nerfed. You’re not supposed to be able the put up the same DPS on crit builds as you were before, as crit builds were overpowered to the point they made all other builds effectively useless

Nerfing crit makes base power equally valuable, and increases the value of every other stat in the game because you can’t as easily cheese through everything by stacking in a corner and burning it down.

Saying that it penalizes valk/other builds because they “need to go zerk to keep their DPS” is missing the point. You’re not supposed to have the same DPS in those builds as you did before. The overtuned way crit damage was previously implemented led to the currently broken PvE metagame of “all damage, all the time” which at best trivialized content, and at worst required overtuned DPS races that made the problem worse.

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t think you get it. Crit-damage based damage is supposed to be nerfed. You’re not supposed to be able the put up the same DPS on crit builds as you were before, as crit builds were overpowered to the point they made all other builds effectively useless

Nerfing crit makes base power equally valuable, and increases the value of every other stat in the game because you can’t as easily cheese through everything by stacking in a corner and burning it down.

Saying that it penalizes valk/other builds because they “need to go zerk to keep their DPS” is missing the point. You’re not supposed to have the same DPS in those builds as you did before. The overtuned way crit damage was previously implemented led to the currently broken PvE metagame of “all damage, all the time” which at best trivialized content, and at worst required overtuned DPS races that made the problem worse.

The problem is that berserker remains the best DPS gear combination, dungeons aren’t changing, and people still want to clear dungeon contest fast. Ferocity nerfs precision harder than power + precision. That said, any nerfs to critical damage or precision also affect power, too, seeing as attacks from power-based characters are inherently weak without critical strikes. Simply, changing/reducing the effectiveness of critical damage does affect power, though, because in all honesty, power is almost useless without precision/crit chance and crit damage, and vice versa. This is why PVT gear is considered the tank set and does very little damage on its own.

This change designed to make the game more diverse is actually doing the opposite. Berserker will be the only DPS set. People will get more strict on player kicking in dungeons because we’ve just hit a net-decrease in dungeon clear times regardless of how one looks at it. Berserker builds are the PvE meta because the current PvE content does not reward support/tank players, and is not enjoyable enough for people to want to allow for runs to take longer. They’re also the meta in WvW zergs because zerging is about the following: Kill Speed, AOE’s, and combo fields. The potency of combo fields makes more damage more useful for finishers, and more damage is also better to kill your opponents faster. Condi stacks effectively reduce damage. This is also why condi is the meta for roaming: with less healing/combo fields to finish off of, having better survivability and arguably the same damage output per unit of time while not needing to worry about hitting max condi stacks makes the individual player more efficient in both dealing and receiving hits.

Ultimately, nerfing critical damage does nothing to resolve any of these problems, because the problems lie in condi stacks, PvE content not rewarding players for playing support/tank roles, and ultimately, players wanting to be doing other things rather than grinding dungeons for money/tokens, be it that they wish to spend time in-game or out-of-game.

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t think you get it. Crit-damage based damage is supposed to be nerfed. You’re not supposed to be able the put up the same DPS on crit builds as you were before, as crit builds were overpowered to the point they made all other builds effectively useless

Nerfing crit makes base power equally valuable, and increases the value of every other stat in the game because you can’t as easily cheese through everything by stacking in a corner and burning it down.

Saying that it penalizes valk/other builds because they “need to go zerk to keep their DPS” is missing the point. You’re not supposed to have the same DPS in those builds as you did before. The overtuned way crit damage was previously implemented led to the currently broken PvE metagame of “all damage, all the time” which at best trivialized content, and at worst required overtuned DPS races that made the problem worse.

It’s not crit damage that makes the other builds not viable, its the other builds themselves. Conditions are completely broken and useless in a group environment due to stacking rules. So what other builds are there for dungeons? A mix of power and survival maybe? The problem with this build is that survival isn’t currently rewarded since you can dodge your way out of most problems and everything in high-level fractals one-shots you regardless of how much survival you have so you may as well go berserker.

Either fix condition stacking to work in groups or add a new stat like haste that will compete with crit damage. Until then you won’t see any new diversity and all Anet has accomplished is kittening off it’s customers by nerfing the most popular and only build that currently works for the content.

If they were worried about groups steam rolling content, fixing stuff like Fiery Greatsword’s OP Fiery Rush into boss in a corner for a billion damage “trick” would be a far better solution.

Nabrok.9023:

I haven’t read through 5 pages of this stuff, but anything declaring something we haven’t even seen in action yet as “failed” gets an automatic dismissal.

And now that it’s launched…

… Is it fair to dismiss my arguments now?

I thought so. Preemptive feedback is critical. Running the numbers is critical. The state of WvW is now trash.

DeceiverX.8361:

Nabrok.9023:

I haven’t read through 5 pages of this stuff, but anything declaring something we haven’t even seen in action yet as “failed” gets an automatic dismissal.

And now that it’s launched…

… Is it fair to dismiss my arguments now?

I thought so. Preemptive feedback is critical. Running the numbers is critical. The state of WvW is now trash.

Preemptively declaring yourself correct must be your modus operandi.

DeceiverX.8361:

Nabrok.9023:

I haven’t read through 5 pages of this stuff, but anything declaring something we haven’t even seen in action yet as “failed” gets an automatic dismissal.

And now that it’s launched…

… Is it fair to dismiss my arguments now?

I thought so. Preemptive feedback is critical. Running the numbers is critical. The state of WvW is now trash.

Because of the patch?

Arguments dismissed.

/dismiss

Yeah ferocity FAILED big time.It just nerfed Thief survability build and rangers that were already worst class in the game.Glass (Power) build thiefs got new trait that give them 200 power wich will sustain them on same dmg they done so far….so glass builds will still crit you for 13k dmg wile poor rangers and thiefs that already had hard time killing people with 6k backstab crit are now nerfed and useless.Did had to nerf Thief Power Build not entire crit.This is only bad thing that come out with this patch,this is end of the thiefs.

I am amazed that some people can already pronounce ferocity a fail just 6+ hours after a patch. Truly amazing……wish I had powerz like you all.

You would all best just quit since the game is now such a fail to you all…….lol.

Sounds to me like you were really just looking for a reason to QQ more.

Yea, I know, I am just a fanboi because I might want to be a bit more patient and see how the changes work out over the next several weeks. /facepalm

Teon.5168:

I am amazed that some people can already pronounce ferocity a fail just 6+ hours after a patch. Truly amazing……wish I had powerz like you all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics

You can learn them.

Spiuk.8421:

Teon.5168:

I am amazed that some people can already pronounce ferocity a fail just 6+ hours after a patch. Truly amazing……wish I had powerz like you all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics

You can learn them.

Lol teon, are you saying your bs stuff here also. You are getting ’’debunked’’.

Go learn some math!