Guild Wars 2

100,000 of this, 10,000 of that. I thought ArenaNet was trying to re-shape MMOs when it said they didn’t want players to Grind?

Colin Johanson, Guild Wars 2 lead content developer, says in the video above, “We just don’t want players to grind.” Mike O’Brien, the executive producer of GW2 and also the president of ArenaNet, in the April 27th, 2010, Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto, said, “GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

I dunno, just found that interesting.

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

Lol not really. If you think running around trying to find what is it…

16 orichalcum bars::32 orichalcum ore::11 orichalcum nodes

to make ONE accessory isn’t grindy… HAH. Maybe if all the nodes were visible once you entered the zone and half weren’t with vets/champs sitting on them… not to mention the gems, which are a completely separate crapshoot if you don’t want to support the horrible flipping minigame—-I mean trading post economy.

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

Wrong.

First, ascended gear takes quite a while to get. Unlike GW1’s elite gear, GW2’s ascended does offer a stat boost.

Second, you need to grind for aesthetics OR whenever you get bored of your build and want to change it. In comparison, although GW1’s equipment affected you power, it did not strongly limited your build diversity. It was just an universal stat boost.

Third, there’s little else to do end-game, outside of grinding, so the main choice pvers will have to make in this game, is to keep grinding or stop playing altogether (with the exception for the days where new content patches hit).

By end game, you grind for map exploration, farm cof 1, wander around for the sake of grinding dailies or mindlessly farm events or world bosses. Someday, you’ll also be need to farm for acchievements. There’s nothing else to do.

1. Guild content is lacking, the new guild missions are gated/ restricted, and there’s little to no party-driven content. There’s little investment to keep playing GW2 for the community.
2. Challenging content to keep the more dedicated players on is mostly non-existent.
3. Profession balance and character building is crippled by very slow balancing, and by many, many restrictions, like stupid boss mechanics, poor AI, money sinks, equipment availability, etc, so those who like to customise builds and shape their own character, will find GW2 a mediocre game to do it, especially in comparison to the (flawed) brilliance of GW1’s character build system.
4. Likewise, the players who care about the story or the promise to shape their characters to a personal story have little to no reason to stick to GW2. The main story was rushed, the personal story concept was barely developed and has little to no mechanical impact, the event/ heart systems can’t substitute the traditional quest system to tell a story, and the new updates are taking forever to bring a new, well-developed story for those players, and it’s possible that new story instanced content won’t even be repeatable.
5. For those who like the combat system, the extremely dps-driven meta and the mediocre (or non-existant) team-driven mechanics is not helping much.
6. For those who love to explore the world, they will find a very pretty but shallow and repetitive Tyria. There’s little to no lore shown or to be read, map exploration is repetitive and a grind, all maps feel and play the same, and so it’s only an exciting experience for new players, before it reveals itself to be forgottable. There’s no adventure, there’s no danger in the world, there’s little to no reward, there’s no excitement; it’s all about mathematically visiting spots and never looking back, grinding hearts.
7. Finally, GW2 is not very rewarding except for those who love repetitive content. Exploring and enjoying Tyria is not very rewarding, but farming easy world bosses for months is. Doing hard content is not very rewarding compared to farming COF. Finding a champion and having an epic battle trying to beat him down will be mostly pointless, but farming for magic find gear and then farming mindless orr events will make you rich. The game even rewards more the players who repeat the same dungeon over and over, than those who like to diversify their gaming experience and do a little bit of each dungeon.

GW2 is a game that currently appeals to solo casuals and loot grinders. Community-driven casuals, hardcore players who want to see their skill rewarded, story-driven players, exploration-driven players or deck-building/ character customisation lovers will not find a lasting place in GW2.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Third, there’s little else to do end-game, outside of grinding,

Sorry, but this complaint is just nonsensical. End-game is by definition grinding. It’s as if you complain that a bachelor isn’t married.

ASaturnus.4980:

Sorry, but this complaint is just nonsensical. End-game is by definition grinding. It’s as if you complain that a bachelor isn’t married.

I would counter your definition of end-game by using counter-examples, but my previous post, which you quoted, already did it.

DiogoSilva.7089:

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

Wrong.

First, <Stuff you don’t need to enjoy the game>

I can drive to the shops just fine in my 1995 ford telstar. I can even have fun doing it if I so choose. Hanson’s CD ‘Middle of nowhere’ and a ‘fully sic’ sub-woofer ftw.

Give me a Ferrari from birth and I won’t comprehend it’s value. Make the Ferrari completely un-obtainable and I’ll resent it’s existence.

It’s a fine line they walk. You can disagree with their line, perhaps find somebodies you agree with. There are many options, it’s a saturated market.

The only other thing I need, personally, is a non-car analogy. I’m thinking skittles, any input wold be gratefully appreciated.

If you think exploration, story, combat depth, challenge and community content are, by your own words, <Stuff you don’t need to enjoy the game>, then by all means, enlighten us and show what is needed to enjoy a game.

Well first off, you’re misquoting. Those references aren’t related to what you are talking about.

When Mr. Johanson said that, he was referring to combat grind. You know the whole, stand there and swing your sword till the enemy dies thing. He was not referring to the grind it takes to get things.

Same for Mr. O’Brien. In that statement, he is referring to a gear treadmill. You don’t have to grind for higher stats over and over like other MMOs. There is no new tier every few months to make yours obsolete, making you have to grind out a new set just to be able to do new content.

The only quote that makes sense to what you are talking about, is the one from Mr. O’Brien where he says, “We don’t make grindy games”. Which is false. Cause this game is all about grinding for cosmetics. And when the soul purpose of a game is cosmetic only, and you put all those cosmetics behind a grind, then you made a grindy game.

DiogoSilva.7089:

If you think exploration, story, combat depth, challenge and community content are, by your own words, <Stuff you don’t need to enjoy the game>, then by all means, enlighten us and show what is needed to enjoy a game.

Well thats personal. The way I see gaming is there is a provided system of which you ‘game’. I happen to enjoy the system provided, as such I game it. The same reason I choose real lifestyles. I’m not trying to be combative yet I can’t understand raging against this machine. I guess my late-night advice would be find a system you enjoy and use it’s specific abilities to your enjoyment. Perhaps the market isn’t as saturated as I first thought or perhaps it’s a personal attachment to the lore of guildwars, something I can understand, though something I think you have to relieve in this age of computer games. It is business and physics.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

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When Mr. Johanson said that, he was referring to combat grind. You know the whole, stand there and swing your sword till the enemy dies thing. He was not referring to the grind it takes to get things.

And yet that is EXACTLY what the combat is…so can we assume that Mr Johanson was talking from some kind of orifice he keeps undeneath his hat?

pricer.5091:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

.

When Mr. Johanson said that, he was referring to combat grind. You know the whole, stand there and swing your sword till the enemy dies thing. He was not referring to the grind it takes to get things.

And yet that is EXACTLY what the combat is…so can we assume that Mr Johanson was talking from some kind of orifice he keeps undeneath his hat?

Not sure how you do combat, but I don’t stand there auto attacking. I use movement and dodge. Along with all my skills when needed for certain situations.

You only need ascended for fractals, nothing else. You don’t need to grind in this game.

People like you and I choose to because we want to push our stats that little bit further, or want to do higher level fractals, or want to get a fancy skin which is worth a bajillion gold.

bravoart.5308:

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

Lol not really. If you think running around trying to find what is it…

16 orichalcum bars::32 orichalcum ore::11 orichalcum nodes

to make ONE accessory isn’t grindy… HAH. Maybe if all the nodes were visible once you entered the zone and half weren’t with vets/champs sitting on them… not to mention the gems, which are a completely separate crapshoot if you don’t want to support the horrible flipping minigame—-I mean trading post economy.

Yep realty your just putting more grinding on your self not Anet putting grinding on you. In effect your becoming your own worst enemy funny to watch ppl brake down under there own egos though. And even for the things that ppl want vs what they need GW2 is far less grinding for looks then that of other mmorpg for the things you NEED. Nothing like needed to grind an event / dungeon until you get a full set of T1 so you can get to the next dungeon to grind for a T2 set to get to the next dungeon to grind for a T3 set etc… THAT is grind of mmorpg its not here in GW2.

Also in other mmorpg you must compete for though node so i am not sure if you jsut want items handed to you or you have never play an mmorpg before and your too use to single player games.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Well first off, you’re misquoting. Those references aren’t related to what you are talking about.

Same for Mr. O’Brien. In that statement, he is referring to a gear treadmill. You don’t have to grind for higher stats over and over like other MMOs. There is no new tier every few months to make yours obsolete, making you have to grind out a new set just to be able to do new content.

Just taking this part since i thought it was sort of misleading. There is no new content that would validate having a new set of gear. Everything that has been added is a world event driven piece of temporary content. In no mmo i have ever played have you had to grind out gear to do world events that were intended to be done by everyone. So really this isnt anything new or different. Pretty standard actually.

And then there are fractals. Which do involve grinding and the need for better gear. Again, fairly standard.

The difference here is that their focus has been on the world events, not the typical dungeon farm mindset of precious mmos.

It is what it is. But not really different.

Wryscher.1432:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Well first off, you’re misquoting. Those references aren’t related to what you are talking about.

Same for Mr. O’Brien. In that statement, he is referring to a gear treadmill. You don’t have to grind for higher stats over and over like other MMOs. There is no new tier every few months to make yours obsolete, making you have to grind out a new set just to be able to do new content.

Just taking this part since i thought it was sort of misleading. There is no new content that would validate having a new set of gear. Everything that has been added is a world event driven piece of temporary content. In no mmo i have ever played have you had to grind out gear to do world events that were intended to be done by everyone. So really this isnt anything new or different. Pretty standard actually.

And then there are fractals. Which do involve grinding and the need for better gear. Again, fairly standard.

The difference here is that their focus has been on the world events, not the typical dungeon farm mindset of precious mmos.

It is what it is. But not really different.

Very true and you make a valid point. But I was referring more on the lines of the gear itself, not what it was used for.

So far, we don’t have a gear treadmill (kind of) at the moment. While other games feature dungeons/raids for their endgame content, GW2 features open world “raids” for their content. The premises is the same, just different ways of doing it. Other game’s endgame content requires a gear treadmill. While GW2’s endgame content doesn’t require a gear treadmill.

Other games are releasing dungeons and raids for their style that require that gear grind. GW2 is releasing open world events for their style, that doesn’t require a gear grind. The only gear treadmill in GW2, is instanced and optional and doesn’t follow the traditional path of ongoing content.

I hope that made sense. Was kind of throwing myself off trying to explain it. But mostly, my post was just to inform how the OP was misquoting Anet and how it didn’t relate to what was being discussed.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

pricer.5091:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

.

When Mr. Johanson said that, he was referring to combat grind. You know the whole, stand there and swing your sword till the enemy dies thing. He was not referring to the grind it takes to get things.

And yet that is EXACTLY what the combat is…so can we assume that Mr Johanson was talking from some kind of orifice he keeps undeneath his hat?

Not sure how you do combat, but I don’t stand there auto attacking. I use movement and dodge. Along with all my skills when needed for certain situations.

Well, sorry but I have news for you….ALL MMO’s have different skills, but when it all comes down to it there isnt a single enemy in this entire game that I can’t take down by pressing “1” repeatedly and staying out of red circles.

In fact, thats mostly the problem. Even WoW had skills that actually had some use beyond meaningless and mostly negated cc, pitiful healing and terrible group mechanics.

pricer.5091:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

pricer.5091:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

.

When Mr. Johanson said that, he was referring to combat grind. You know the whole, stand there and swing your sword till the enemy dies thing. He was not referring to the grind it takes to get things.

And yet that is EXACTLY what the combat is…so can we assume that Mr Johanson was talking from some kind of orifice he keeps undeneath his hat?

Not sure how you do combat, but I don’t stand there auto attacking. I use movement and dodge. Along with all my skills when needed for certain situations.

Well, sorry but I have news for you….ALL MMO’s have different skills, but when it all comes down to it there isnt a single enemy in this entire game that I can’t take down by pressing “1” repeatedly and staying out of red circles.

Well, in other MMO’s, as a tank, I stand there in front of a boss going blow for blow, doing nothing else. As a healer, I sit there in the back doing nothing but clicking my heal spell on the tank over and over. As a DPS, I sit behind the boss stabbing away till it is dead.

Can’t do that in GW2. I can’t sit in front of a boss, soaking up all the damage while a healer sits back and keeps me alive. I have to move and dodge. Same thing with healing. Everyone has to participate in keeping the group alive by placing AoE heals and buffs appropriately. As a DPS, I can’t just stand behind the boss auto attacking. The boss will turn to me since there is no tank to hold aggro, and I’ll need to move and dodge when needed.

So again, not sure how you play combat, but to me, it is nothing like other MMOs.

I know its not like other MMO’s..its a lot worse and far less skill is involved. Everyone has to dodge, you mitigate the effect of taking a mega-ton of damage when it goes worng by being rezzed by someone else.

Basically you are running round like a cross between a ninja and a scared baby while taking whatever shots you can get in. It sucks.

Next thing you know, they’ll be saying killing 10 rats = grinding!

Reasonable grinds for Aesthetics is one thing. Dragon coffers with a 1 in 2,000 chance of getting a ticket for a rare, limited time skin, or a cost of 100,000 Zhaitaffies for a cosmetic back item are something else entirely.

During a month long event there shouldn’t be a grind for cosmetics that will require more than 30 hours of grinding per aesthetic reward. Period. Even that may be excessive.

I don’t think it’s possible for anyone to actually earn 100,000 Zhaitaffies in one month, even if your account is manned 24/7 with the sole purpose of farming them.

At current rates, I think it would take most people over 60 hours to accumulate 2,000 Dragon Coffers and even then they would have a 33% chance of not getting a single ticket from those 2,000 coffers.

It’s insane.

There’s a standard rate to grinding now? What if I grind slower than you, should I get the item after 30 hours anyway? If I grind twice as fast, will I get two?

And where are you pulling these numbers from? A dedicated player who wants to get these items could easily devote 100 hours a week to collecting coffers and taffy. The coffers contain taffy, by the way, they add up pretty fast. And I think the coffers are currently the most supplied item on the TP, you can buy them and taffy pretty cheap.

the whole game is a grind from start to end, it’s just cleverly hidden like the hearts- instead of seeing that arbitrary number for completion, they instead covered it with a progress bar.

dronzer.8392:

the whole game is a grind from start to end, it’s just cleverly hidden like the hearts- instead of seeing that arbitrary number for completion, they instead covered it with a progress bar.

Hearts where added in beta because players need something to point them to what to exp on. Hearts help the players a great deal has nothing to do with grinding.

Your too far gone to even talk to i think nothing will convince you if you think THIS is grind i hope you never play another mmorpg because they are sooo much worst then what this game will ever do or has done.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I would counter your definition of end-game by using counter-examples, but my previous post, which you quoted, already did it.

Well, sorry, but I don’t see any counter-examples in your first post, only buzz-words. I have yet to see any example of any endgame in any game that is not based upon repeating the same content again and again. And if you think you know any such example, please explain why that would be endgame and not, you know, non-endgame.

I wish people would learn to read. I really do. Because I’m tired of typing this.

The purpose of a paragraph is to keep ideas together. You can’t take one sentence out of a paragraph to prove a point without being accused of taking words out of context. This is what politicians and lawyers do. Taking something out of context…ignoring the original references to the content is a way of making something sound very much like something it’s not. Let’s take a look at something else from the same paragraph.

“In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff.”

Of course the last line of the same paragraph is: “We want to change the way people view combat.”

This paragraph isn’t about gear grind or item grind. It’s about grinding for levels, the original definition of grinding in MMO parlance. In many asian grinders, you grind for levels by killing mobs. And you have to level to get to the good/fun stuff…ie raiding.

All Colin was saying was that there’d be fun stuff to do pretty much right away, as opposed to having to grind to get to the fun stuff. Such as having big events like the Shadow Behemoth right in Queensdale, a starting area.

I should also point out, not only does the paragraph reflect this, but also it was confirmed several times by staff members after the fact.

People need to stop taking stuff out of context.

pricer.5091:

I know its not like other MMO’s..its a lot worse and far less skill is involved. Everyone has to dodge, you mitigate the effect of taking a mega-ton of damage when it goes worng by being rezzed by someone else.

Basically you are running round like a cross between a ninja and a scared baby while taking whatever shots you can get in. It sucks.

So you need to prove your skills against AI? Skills come in when both opponents are equal and one must fall, try to beat other player by pressing 1 and tell me this game is not about skill. I dare you.
On other hand, in every other game i played (save GW1) winning is mostly about who has more +1 enchantments on their weapon (and you have to grind your hand off for those enchants).
I guess those other games have more skill involved, since you dont have to move and you need skill to press hotkeys alot, you also dont have to position yourself since you need to dedicate your skilled hands on pressing hotkeys! /s

SWTOR bored the hell out of me. It was too grindy in the WoW sense. It’s pvp wasn’t very engaging and resulted in a lot of hutball. It was not the MMO for me. So, after I had decided that it wasn’t the game for me, I did one of two things.

1) I continued to play the game occasionally, and spent a lot of time on their forums asking the devs to change the game and insulting their sensibilities.

OR

2) I found a different game to play.

You choose a response!

I had more fun grinding gw1 than I ever had ‘playing’ gw2.

Klawlyt.6507:

SWTOR bored the hell out of me. It was too grindy in the WoW sense. It’s pvp wasn’t very engaging and resulted in a lot of hutball.

Huttball was pretty awesome though :P

Klawlyt.6507:

1) I continued to play the game occasionally, and spent a lot of time on their forums asking the devs to change the game and insulting their sensibilities.

OR

2) I found a different game to play.

You choose a response!

I leave my 2 cents and move on when I’m done with a game. I was never sure why people stuck around games they clearly disliked, complaining about things that were never going to change towards their liking.

ASaturnus.4980:

DiogoSilva.7089:

I would counter your definition of end-game by using counter-examples, but my previous post, which you quoted, already did it.

Well, sorry, but I don’t see any counter-examples in your first post, only buzz-words. I have yet to see any example of any endgame in any game that is not based upon repeating the same content again and again. And if you think you know any such example, please explain why that would be endgame and not, you know, non-endgame.

It’s not so much about the grind, but about how fun it is to do it or not. Even GW2’s developers have expressed the wish many times of making GW2 a fun game, where people wouldn’t even notice that they were grinding.

World exploration can take long – or it would take long, if it wasn’t so mindlessly easy. It could also be more exciting if it wasn’t so mathematical and repetitive. Hearts are pure unfun grind. By making world exploration more hidden (aka, not being fully dependent on icons seen on the map), and certain tasks considerably more challenging (which they are not), especially if devs linked world exploration to daungerous, exciting world adventures, the entire experience would be far more exciting, and it would last longer (at least to the majority of the players).

I don’t feel like making a huge post, so I’ll just add in that the similar things could be said to farming monsters, doing dungeons, etc. You can have repeatable content that is FUN. Devs can also take inspiration from community-generated content that exists in some other games, not to mention that MMOs as a whole are much better enjoyed when they have tight community-driven tools.

End-game must rely on repeatable content, but you can have fun and exciting repeatable content, or mindless grinding. GW2’s devs have clearly, clearly expressed that they wanted to acchieve the former, but currently, GW2 has degenerated to the later situation.

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

GW1 was the same armor wise, except how to get epic looking items. GW2 is pure pure grind. GW1 was skilled team play(fun).

DiogoSilva.7089:

End-game must rely on repeatable content, but you can have fun and exciting repeatable content, or mindless grinding. GW2’s devs have clearly, clearly expressed that they wanted to acchieve the former, but currently, GW2 has degenerated to the later situation.

This is much clearer proposition than what you said before and debatable. My counterargument is that this is subjective. I find the repeatable content in GW2 fun and I think I’ll have fun for a long time in GW2.
I guess this borders to the “elitism is ruining GW2” discussion in this forum. You may not see yourself as an “elitist”, but my impression is that your main problem is that you feel under-challenged. Understandable, but I do not think that the majority of GW2 feels this way (maybe the majority of forum contributors).

ASaturnus.4980:

This is much clearer proposition than what you said before and debatable. My counterargument is that this is subjective. I find the repeatable content in GW2 fun and I think I’ll have fun for a long time in GW2.

As a game designer once said, “just because you find it to be fun/ unfun, it doesn’t means others will think the same”. Sure, it applies to me too, but my point is, why can’t the game appeal to both our tastes? It did try, afterall. And based on anet’s own comments and manifesto, they do want to appeal to both tastes, but especially to those who are sick of the mindless grind and want funnier/ more diverse content. Based on their own words, they have still a way to go to acchieve their vision, and meanwhile, the people that were lured by their promises, like me, are left waiting for future content to see what happens.

Thanks, DiogoSilva, you made many valid points. Most especially in regards to the manner in which this game was marketed (for years!) as opposed to the reality of a heavy grind and the introduction of stat based vertical progression.

And this was a nice summary, when you said: “You can have repeatable content that is FUN. Devs can also take inspiration from community-generated content that exists in some other games, not to mention that MMOs as a whole are much better enjoyed when they have tight community-driven tools. End-game must rely on repeatable content, but you can have fun and exciting repeatable content, or mindless grinding. GW2’s devs have clearly, clearly expressed that they wanted to achieve the former, but currently, GW2 has degenerated to the later situation.”

Fortunately for me, I have a great deal of fun in WvW and PvP, so the game still offers solid value for my cartoon-game entertainment needs.

BTW, don’t bother engaging any of the “self-appointed” spokesmen for Anet that pollute nearly every single thread. These types are easily spotted because they spend most of their time lecturing others on nearly every topic imaginable. Always at pains to give the impression they actually know why the game company’s developers made certain decisions or changes, truth be told, they haven’t a clue. Unfortunately, these types have become more common in MMO forums; usually polite, but always pretentious, these creeps are nothing more than dedicated reverse-trolls. However, you do need to be careful when engaging them, because reverse trolls adore the report option.

CoRtex.2157:

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

GW1 was the same armor wise, except how to get epic looking items. GW2 is pure pure grind. GW1 was skilled team play(fun).

GW1 was a single player game that you could play with other ppl GW2 is an mmorpg. There are just truths you must deal with when it comes to an mmorpg. Also GW1 had a grind it was to get the skills the major ones.

ASaturnus.4980:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Third, there’s little else to do end-game, outside of grinding,

Sorry, but this complaint is just nonsensical. End-game is by definition grinding. It’s as if you complain that a bachelor isn’t married.

According to ANet “the game is the end game”.

According to you “end game is a grind”

So, basically, the game is a grind.

Jski.6180:

CoRtex.2157:

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

GW1 was the same armor wise, except how to get epic looking items. GW2 is pure pure grind. GW1 was skilled team play(fun).

GW1 was a single player game that you could play with other ppl GW2 is an mmorpg. There are just truths you must deal with when it comes to an mmorpg. Also GW1 had a grind it was to get the skills the major ones.

Go beat Prophecies with no x-pac and no access to account storage with just yourself and henchmen and come back and post this kitten.

Crawford.4135:

100,000 of this, 10,000 of that. I thought ArenaNet was trying to re-shape MMOs when it said they didn’t want players to Grind?

Colin Johanson, Guild Wars 2 lead content developer, says in the video above, “We just don’t want players to grind.” Mike O’Brien, the executive producer of GW2 and also the president of ArenaNet, in the April 27th, 2010, Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto, said, “GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

I dunno, just found that interesting.

You took that quote out of context. And because you didn’t include the full quote, I’m guessing you did so on purpose. He didn’t say “we just don’t want players to grind.” He said “we just don’t want players to grind to get to the fun stuff.” There’s a HUGE difference between the two.

darkace.8925:

Crawford.4135:

100,000 of this, 10,000 of that. I thought ArenaNet was trying to re-shape MMOs when it said they didn’t want players to Grind?

Colin Johanson, Guild Wars 2 lead content developer, says in the video above, “We just don’t want players to grind.” Mike O’Brien, the executive producer of GW2 and also the president of ArenaNet, in the April 27th, 2010, Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto, said, “GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

I dunno, just found that interesting.

You took that quote out of context. And because you didn’t include the full quote, I’m guessing you did so on purpose. He didn’t say “we just don’t want players to grind.” He said “we just don’t want players to grind to get to the fun stuff.” There’s a HUGE difference between the two.

So, why do we have 80 levels to grind through until we hit Orr?

penatbater.4710:

Next thing you know, they’ll be saying killing 10 rats = grinding!

Depends on why…

If there is a plague being spread by the rats, you will need to kill a decent number of rats. But if we compare it to a dolyak. You need to work on your cooking and you require some dolyak meat. A single dolyak should provide enough dolyak meat to make a couple dozen and you should then be left with supplies to spare. You should not have to kill 10 dolyaks to make a single dish.

stayBlind.7849:

So, why do we have 80 levels to grind through until we hit Orr?

1. If Orr is the only part of PvE you find fun, then you’ve got such a narrow idea of fun that I’d call you unreasonable.

2. You’re given experience for virtually every thing you do in this game. If you consider leveling to 80 in this game a grind then I’d suggest to you that MMORPGs just aren’t your cup of tea.

stayBlind.7849:

ASaturnus.4980:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Third, there’s little else to do end-game, outside of grinding,

Sorry, but this complaint is just nonsensical. End-game is by definition grinding. It’s as if you complain that a bachelor isn’t married.

According to ANet “the game is the end game”.

According to you “end game is a grind”

So, basically, the game is a grind.

Well, “the game is the end game” is just a marketing phrase that actually doesn’t make much sense. It was used because traditionally the end-game in mmos, in other words grind, is ironically seen as more fun as the boring leveling.

“The game being the endgame” has to do with how the game handles levels and reward. You can, at any point, go back to a starter area and not one shot kill mobs with the most basic attack and you will get drops for around your level. The xp and karma is also adjusted and is comparable (but I’m pretty sure it’s still less) to what would be given on a map that is more your current level.

This really has very little to do with the game being a grind or not.

colesy.8490:

You only ever have to grind for aesthetics in this game, getting a full set of exo gear and jewelry is easy and does not need to be grinded for.

That’s not quite true.

Unless you get extremely lucky, you will still have to do a required amount of grind… which will probably be fairly small, but still, for people that want multiple sets… x_x.

I have yet to ever feel this game was a grind. So I guess that’s a job well done by Anet.

But then you have to look at what people consider “grind”. For me, its entering a zone/area with the intent of doing the same thing over and over repetitively in order to progress in the game in some manner AND doing so not because it is enjoyable but instead because its necessary to progress.

In GW2 I have ALWAYS had an alternative – heck, multiple alternatives – to progressing my character forward. Just running hearts on maps, each of which is slightly different, will get you to 80. Then there is the personal story, dungeons, world vs. world, crafting, PvP, exploration, Living Story, meta-events, the daily, etc. you get the point.

By treating this game like any other video game – where I play for the enjoyment of playing a video game – I’ve been more than able to outfit two level 80 characters with exotics/ascended gear, have well over 100G banked, and pretty much have every other thing in the game that I want.

No farming. No grinding. Just playing for fun each day with my friends.

If you start focusing on your reward more than playing for fun, the game will certainly dive quickly into a farm/grind. But that is your choice to overlook the fun of playing a video game in pursuit of the fastest route possible to your reward (which is silly because any reward in the game is really only good for….having fun playing the game).