GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: ikereid.4637

ikereid.4637

“What we are planning to do going forward is that we are going to shorten the span for the next launch of the expansion pack. So right now we are in the phase for preparing for the 2nd expansion pack we ae going to shorten the launch timing between the different boxes that we launch to create more momentum. "

Good to see ArenaNet doubling down with their quantity over quality strategy.

Remember, this isn’t ANet saying this but NCSOFT to analysts, which is what they want to hear. They don’t care about any of the games NCSOFT markets, just the bottom line. Don’t forget, NCSOFT said an expansion was coming a year after the game launched in a conference call.

That was on a call though, if its on paper its more tangible.
Just like the 2015 Jan 3rd Budget report that projected what the Expansion set to release was going to make, I would put more weight into something down in a Financial document then something over a conference call.

What report was that? Certainly not the Daewoo outrageous guesstimate?

I dont remember which report, but it was the one that said the est HoT sales was going to be 10,000,000. Which if you did the math, put the MSRP of HOT at 49.99, which is what it was.

So say what you want….

That was an analyst’s guestimate what the expansion was going to bring in, not anything from NCSOFT or ANet. They, Daewoo, quickly walked back that estimate within a few weeks.

And I don’t remember any White Knights here asking for an expansion. It was the naysayers who disliked living world clamored for a “traditional” expansion.

Then you really weren’t on the forums that much from 2012-2014. I can remember a handful of threads with 200-300 replies about ‘why GW2 needs an expansion’.

So yes, the player base on the forums were fighting for/against expansions prior to 2015.

And Daewoo, or whoever, marked that the Expansion was going to cost 50 bucks and so it did. Even if they back stepped they were not wrong in the MSRP that NCSoft was going to ask for it.

Much like how if there is talks about a new Exp per year for GW2 I would guess we can expect a 14-16 month cycle for expansions realistically if they do go that route.

But, I/myself, will no longer buy expansions for this game. HoT left such a poor taste for me that I refuse to take another bite from that platter. Anet/NCSoft is going to have to come up with a new content delivery scheme if they want any more of my money.

Desktop: 4790k@4.6ghz-1.25v, AMD 295×2, 32GB 1866CL10 RAM, 850Evo 500GB SSD
Laptop: M6600 – 2720QM, AMD HD6970M, 32GB 1600CL9 RAM, Arc100 480GB SSD

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: Malediktus.9250

Malediktus.9250

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: ikereid.4637

ikereid.4637

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

Let me ask, do you feel you get your money’s worth on Gem Purchases?

Desktop: 4790k@4.6ghz-1.25v, AMD 295×2, 32GB 1866CL10 RAM, 850Evo 500GB SSD
Laptop: M6600 – 2720QM, AMD HD6970M, 32GB 1600CL9 RAM, Arc100 480GB SSD

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: Malediktus.9250

Malediktus.9250

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

Let me ask, do you feel you get your money’s worth on Gem Purchases?

Not really, considering I could buy at least 10 full AAA games for my gem purchases

1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.

(edited by Malediktus.9250)

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: ikereid.4637

ikereid.4637

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

Let me ask, do you feel you get your money’s worth on Gem Purchases?

Not really, considering I could buy at least 10 full AAA games for my gem purchases

yea I kinda thought so.

The last time I bought a series of Gems was on the Heroes weapon sets (Kasmeer’s Staff, Majory’s Daggers…ect) when they were first released.

Since then I have just banked Gold into Gems on a weekly Basis, but I cant bring myself to buy anything on the store anymore. Its all just a bunch of lame stuff that will do nothing for me. Its all Glider Skins and outfits.

They need to change their direction with what they are doing here. and fast.

Desktop: 4790k@4.6ghz-1.25v, AMD 295×2, 32GB 1866CL10 RAM, 850Evo 500GB SSD
Laptop: M6600 – 2720QM, AMD HD6970M, 32GB 1600CL9 RAM, Arc100 480GB SSD

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

If HoT had GvG maps instead of only 1 pvp map, if the Guild Arenas were bigger and had score boards, if they didn’t stop making dungeons, if raids were accessible and had exploration, if they listened to the Desert BL feedback – merged the servers and brought back the orb, if some elite spec design didn’t suck so much (Tempest), if the living story didn’t stop for a year, if they didn’t do the legendary collections, if the class balance wasn’t terrible, if there weren’t other good MMO around…
… Then the game would be going really well.

The reason things are as they are is that the management is unable to focus the devs on what this game really needs.

It’s wasted potential… There was once a thriving GvG scene, they could have capitalized on it instead of telling them they were not “playing the game right”.
Now where is that GvG scene? Probably playing Rocket League.

(edited by Xillllix.3485)

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: ikereid.4637

ikereid.4637

If HoT had GvG maps instead of only 1 pvp map, if the Guild Arenas were bigger and had score boards, if they didn’t stop making dungeons, if raids were accessible and had exploration, if they listened to the Desert BL feedback – merged the servers and brought back the orb, if some elite spec design didn’t suck so much (Tempest), if the living story didn’t stop for a year, if they didn’t do the legendary collections, if the class balance wasn’t terrible, if there weren’t other good MMO around…
… Then the game would be going really well.

The reason things are as they are is that the management is unable to focus the devs on what this game really needs.

Very close, the issue is they are trying to spread the game soo thin that the regular player base will be around for years to come.

The issue there, its not really working out.

But you are dead on the head of the nail there. They need to refocus their efforts and make GW2 was GW2 was supposed to be again. How it was at release is why I bought this game on pre-order after playing the Beta. so much promise.

4 years later, its like an entirely different game.

Sure ‘game play may change online’ applies, but ‘the game will change’ does not.

Desktop: 4790k@4.6ghz-1.25v, AMD 295×2, 32GB 1866CL10 RAM, 850Evo 500GB SSD
Laptop: M6600 – 2720QM, AMD HD6970M, 32GB 1600CL9 RAM, Arc100 480GB SSD

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: Malediktus.9250

Malediktus.9250

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

Let me ask, do you feel you get your money’s worth on Gem Purchases?

Not really, considering I could buy at least 10 full AAA games for my gem purchases

yea I kinda thought so.

The last time I bought a series of Gems was on the Heroes weapon sets (Kasmeer’s Staff, Majory’s Daggers…ect) when they were first released.

Since then I have just banked Gold into Gems on a weekly Basis, but I cant bring myself to buy anything on the store anymore. Its all just a bunch of lame stuff that will do nothing for me. Its all Glider Skins and outfits.

They need to change their direction with what they are doing here. and fast.

But what could they sell in shop to make more money without going straight up pay to win? I would like to see armor sets over outfits again, but Anet insists they are too much work

1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: ikereid.4637

ikereid.4637

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

Let me ask, do you feel you get your money’s worth on Gem Purchases?

Not really, considering I could buy at least 10 full AAA games for my gem purchases

yea I kinda thought so.

The last time I bought a series of Gems was on the Heroes weapon sets (Kasmeer’s Staff, Majory’s Daggers…ect) when they were first released.

Since then I have just banked Gold into Gems on a weekly Basis, but I cant bring myself to buy anything on the store anymore. Its all just a bunch of lame stuff that will do nothing for me. Its all Glider Skins and outfits.

They need to change their direction with what they are doing here. and fast.

But what could they sell in shop to make more money without going straight up pay to win? I would like to see armor sets over outfits again, but Anet insists they are too much work

Lots of things, actually. But anything I say on the subject will start a flame war and ruin this thread :-)

But, does not have to be pay to win to be successful.

Desktop: 4790k@4.6ghz-1.25v, AMD 295×2, 32GB 1866CL10 RAM, 850Evo 500GB SSD
Laptop: M6600 – 2720QM, AMD HD6970M, 32GB 1600CL9 RAM, Arc100 480GB SSD

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

Let me ask, do you feel you get your money’s worth on Gem Purchases?

Not really, considering I could buy at least 10 full AAA games for my gem purchases

yea I kinda thought so.

The last time I bought a series of Gems was on the Heroes weapon sets (Kasmeer’s Staff, Majory’s Daggers…ect) when they were first released.

Since then I have just banked Gold into Gems on a weekly Basis, but I cant bring myself to buy anything on the store anymore. Its all just a bunch of lame stuff that will do nothing for me. Its all Glider Skins and outfits.

They need to change their direction with what they are doing here. and fast.

But what could they sell in shop to make more money without going straight up pay to win? I would like to see armor sets over outfits again, but Anet insists they are too much work

Lots of things, actually. But anything I say on the subject will start a flame war and ruin this thread :-)

But, does not have to be pay to win to be successful.

Well then, here’s your thread to suggest what will make ANet tons of money, Suggestions: Gemstore items

I look forward to seeing what you post there.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

GW2 Sales 2Q16: a new All Time Low

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Posted by: KingClash.3186

KingClash.3186

“What we are planning to do going forward is that we are going to shorten the span for the next launch of the expansion pack.”

Red flag.
The initial launch of GW2 and HoT (which took half a year to spit shine) were rushed, don’t be surprised by this pattern.

But hey for once WoW won’t be able to steal potential customers with a strategic release since their XPack is due to come out very soon. Which really makes me wonder what the rush will accomplish unless there is some sleeper MMO I don’t know about.

I’d like to think many people prefer quality over quantity but that’s just a wild generalization right?

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Posted by: Tommyknocker.6089

Tommyknocker.6089

Casual gamers used to have a haven in GW2. No grinding, no elitism and few boundaries. Sure there was some content that was for the more hardcore such as fractals, but it was released along with fun things such as the LW1 patches. Once HoT was released after FAR FAR to long to keep the interest of many, we got grindy, difficult to traverse maps, and elitism coming out of our kitten. This included almost nothing for the casual adventurer/explorer to do in the new areas (save die a lot). I left for 4 months since there was little left for me to do that I had not done before and I already had 5 characters with full map completion in normal Tyria.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is alright to release content like raids, but for kitten sake at least give the casuals something to do too! I am not surprised in the loss of revenue in the slightest and as many of my guildies have left months ago and was indeed expecting as much. I came back for a while, but with many other alternatives coming out I cannot say for how long I will stay.

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

Just saying now, I told you so, to all the people who kept screaming for an expansion for years, and the white knights claiming HoT would be a huge boon for profits and the number of active players.

Expansions, unless in widely-popular subscription games, do not make money. Microtransactions for cosmetics do, and focusing on important things like gameplay make any content droughts much more enjoyable. Games like League, which has an astrononical budget know this; almost all profit comes from skins and their tight gameplay mechanics and good balance, with a very occasional new champion/content release.

ANet has failed repeatedly to provide us with a quality, detail-driven gameplay experience as a whole for well over a year, now. Most aspects of the game which were once great selling points have been stymied, while an excess of attention has been put in all the wrong places in hopes to expand their bleeding playerbase via niche markets. Unfortunately, the real, hard truth is that the existing greatness of the game is being continuously tarnished through negligence, and in many respects, blatant ineptitude of maintaining such a great experience.

If every MMO has a failing, it’s lack of content. The fact is the model is designed for players to spend a lot of time at it, but in the process they rapidly burn through content and find themselves wondering what to do next. It’s the big content patches/expansions players look forward to at that point.

You seem to be suggesting that instead of developing the HoT expansion, ANet should have focused on class balance. In other words, the game was almost perfect and should have been left that way (more or less).

Are you primarily a PvP player? Because that actually makes a lot of sense in the PvP realm. PvP players are far more sensitive to balance issues. New content is great, but ultimately you’re there to compete against other players and you can’t do that very well when they drop a bunch of overpowered elite specs that only half the players have access to into the mix.

However, on the PvE side of the coin, these forums are full of players who dislike HoT and probably wish it had never happened. But do you think before HoT released they were looking forward to nothing but minor balance tweaks and the odd content release every now and then? Not likely!

PvE players want content. They always want content. Balance is great, but they play the game cooperatively or by themselves rather than competitively (for the most part). They aren’t sensitive to the razor’s edge on balance issues the way PvP players are and they don’t get as much replay value out of the combat itself as AI is far less dynamic.

You referenced “League” (I assume league of legends?). I’ve never played that one, but is it primarily a PvP game? If so, do you think perhaps their model of maintaining and refining class balance with only minor content upgrades would be a good fit in a heavy PvE game like GW2?

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Posted by: Neural.1824

Neural.1824

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

Catering to the “hardcore” crowd worked so well for Wildstar, Anet wanted to try it here.

Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

I’d like to think many people prefer quality over quantity but that’s just a wild generalization right?

No. People aren’t that reasonable. We may say we prefer quality over quantity, but what we really want is an endless quantity of quality!

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Posted by: MashMash.1645

MashMash.1645

Casual gamers used to have a haven in GW2. No grinding, no elitism and few boundaries. Sure there was some content that was for the more hardcore such as fractals, but it was released along with fun things such as the LW1 patches. Once HoT was released after FAR FAR to long to keep the interest of many, we got grindy, difficult to traverse maps, and elitism coming out of our kitten. This included almost nothing for the casual adventurer/explorer to do in the new areas (save die a lot). I left for 4 months since there was little left for me to do that I had not done before and I already had 5 characters with full map completion in normal Tyria.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is alright to release content like raids, but for kitten sake at least give the casuals something to do too! I am not surprised in the loss of revenue in the slightest and as many of my guildies have left months ago and was indeed expecting as much. I came back for a while, but with many other alternatives coming out I cannot say for how long I will stay.

Don’t worry, I’m sure the raiders and all the people screaming for ‘harder challenging content’ will bankroll the game. Right?

Maybe Woodenpotatoes, or Brazil or MMOinks can pass a hat around.

Pre-Ordered HoT | Recently started to get what I paid for – may spend $$$

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Posted by: Bellatrixa.3546

Bellatrixa.3546

Don’t worry, I’m sure the raiders and all the people screaming for ‘harder challenging content’ will bankroll the game. Right?

I’m one that does -shrugs- In my case because I started with GW1 in 2010 and want to support ANet as and when I want to rather than being tied to a set subscription every month which would make me feel obliged to spend more time on the game to get my money’s worth.

Thing is, I don’t think the salt about raids would have been so great had other stuff been coming out at the same time for those not interested in them. I can understand that people felt they weren’t being catered towards but please let’s not act like this is the first time ever that ANet has attempted more difficult content for players: there was a Hard Mode in GW1 and that didn’t drive people away from the game. Nor did the elite areas like UW/DoA/FoW/Urgoz/Deep.
Raids have their issues and the implementation came in a period of time where not a whole lot else was going on, so people got mad and/or left as a result which I can understand. The April patch helped cure some of the damage and it seems the recent update has helped some more. I highly doubt the game will close as a result or that GW3 will start development soon as someone else claimed, that’s just scaremongering and exaggeration. Tbh though I think that the people who dropped the ball on Legendaries should be the first to go should there be redundancies but that’s just my opinion.

“Even if we find a way to save the world from the
dragons, I sometimes wonder if we’ll ever find a way to save us from ourselves.”

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Posted by: Malediktus.9250

Malediktus.9250

I’d like to think many people prefer quality over quantity but that’s just a wild generalization right?

No. People aren’t that reasonable. We may say we prefer quality over quantity, but what we really want is an endless quantity of quality!

quality isnt helpful if you burn through it in an evening, it is an MMO and not a movie

1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Just saying now, I told you so, to all the people who kept screaming for an expansion for years, and the white knights claiming HoT would be a huge boon for profits and the number of active players.

Expansions, unless in widely-popular subscription games, do not make money. Microtransactions for cosmetics do, and focusing on important things like gameplay make any content droughts much more enjoyable. Games like League, which has an astrononical budget know this; almost all profit comes from skins and their tight gameplay mechanics and good balance, with a very occasional new champion/content release.

ANet has failed repeatedly to provide us with a quality, detail-driven gameplay experience as a whole for well over a year, now. Most aspects of the game which were once great selling points have been stymied, while an excess of attention has been put in all the wrong places in hopes to expand their bleeding playerbase via niche markets. Unfortunately, the real, hard truth is that the existing greatness of the game is being continuously tarnished through negligence, and in many respects, blatant ineptitude of maintaining such a great experience.

If every MMO has a failing, it’s lack of content. The fact is the model is designed for players to spend a lot of time at it, but in the process they rapidly burn through content and find themselves wondering what to do next. It’s the big content patches/expansions players look forward to at that point.

You seem to be suggesting that instead of developing the HoT expansion, ANet should have focused on class balance. In other words, the game was almost perfect and should have been left that way (more or less).

Are you primarily a PvP player? Because that actually makes a lot of sense in the PvP realm. PvP players are far more sensitive to balance issues. New content is great, but ultimately you’re there to compete against other players and you can’t do that very well when they drop a bunch of overpowered elite specs that only half the players have access to into the mix.

However, on the PvE side of the coin, these forums are full of players who dislike HoT and probably wish it had never happened. But do you think before HoT released they were looking forward to nothing but minor balance tweaks and the odd content release every now and then? Not likely!

PvE players want content. They always want content. Balance is great, but they play the game cooperatively or by themselves rather than competitively (for the most part). They aren’t sensitive to the razor’s edge on balance issues the way PvP players are and they don’t get as much replay value out of the combat itself as AI is far less dynamic.

You referenced “League” (I assume league of legends?). I’ve never played that one, but is it primarily a PvP game? If so, do you think perhaps their model of maintaining and refining class balance with only minor content upgrades would be a good fit in a heavy PvE game like GW2?

I primarily play(ed) WvW (quit on the 7/26 patch), which is the objectively most stale and most neglected format in the game. Quite frankly, I’ve been playing almost every day since before release, and still got enjoyment out of the game’s mechanics and the capacity for players to shape how events unfolded. Out of necessity to uphold my 2g/hour food, I did PvE. A lot of it. Dungeons were a great start to the game and offered substantial replayability in respects to the content design. The AI, as you said, wasn’t there, but it’s nigh impossible to make good, fast-performing AI that will extend the lifespan of the content dramatically before being figured out.

Which, in all seriousness, is the entire purpose of MMO’s in general: players shaping the world. Ask yourself if you’d rather play a single player game for its story or progression or gameplay or have the community of a guild/group/clan with a shared interest. If you’re only here for story, you’re playing the wrong game (sorry, but GW2’s story hasn’t been brag-worthy), and quite frankly, the wrong genre of game. It’s like complaining that there isn’t enough character development and interaction in FPS games.

Honestly, anyone pretending like making PvE MMO’s is a profitable endeavor doesn’t understand that unless the game is designed to take the players years to reach endgame, it’s going to lose money because the interest in PvE will wane due to its players beating content faster than what the game’s publisher can generate, unless it happens to get an absurd amount of financial backing and player support. ANet doesn’t have these resources. Pretty much nobody does; WoW being only close to an exception (and WoW also undergoes content droughts). Simply, it’s not even feasible to expect AAA quality coming at a rate as fast as players can consume it. Especially if the idea is to keep the game accessible by B2P or free.

GW2 marketed itself heavily as the play-as-you-wish, casual-friendly game in 2012 with a good amount of support and lots of developer interaction, which most Eastern imports cannot boast. The figures do not lie: ANet made back its development investment costs in the first year out of this ideology, and did well for itself within a level of expectation almost deliberately until HoT efforts began. The game was intended to be community-heavy, with extra bells and whistles thrown into things like character dyes, town clothes, and as of the early trailer/game ideals, character personalities and how they could affect aspects of gameplay or story. The core game was meant to be (and is) very deep, with a plethora of hidden secrets for people to discover, as to keep them entertained, with a diverse cast and in almost all respects, many, many options on just how players wished to play the game and be relatively/appropriately rewarded. They pushed for good profession balance with the dev transparency and attention to e-sports to monetize and gain support to turn more of a profit, since well-balanced games tend to do better than poorly-balanced ones (I.E. what we’ve been seeing since a little bit before HoT).

As far as balance goes, PvE is much more vocal about it and has gotten much more attention to their issues than the PvP/WvW side. Almost all major public releases of number-crunching, the whole “berserker meta” nonsense which largely got us into a horrible state of balance, talks over class viability, etc. via numbers come from the PvE community. In fact, I’d actually argue the exclusivity of the PvE community min-maxing has led to a large motive as to why players are so often chomping at the bit for new content: a few min-maxers post the next FoTM build or comp on a major website/stream, and the “hardcore” players copy-paste the build thinking nothing of it, and rush the content down.

The few weeks after launch were chaos in the absolute best ways, and some people I played with at level 80 didn’t even know what traits were, and most players were in greens and a few rares, with maybe an odd exotic. The few people who had figured anything out didn’t have the time and popularity to just let people copy-paste their builds, and the infrastructure of such sharing sites like metabattle or GW2skills wasn’t there, either.

The small episodes of LS every two weeks were icing to keep things fresh as to give both more hardcore and casual players a reason to keep coming back and keeping up with the game, but this cadence proved both unsustainable from a business perspective, and difficult for the players due to a constant dependency of needing to log in for an episode’ s period, which could not be replayed. So they dropped the concept.

GW2 was not meant to be a new-content-churning, hardcore PvE game.

I worked for a Korean grinder and this was quite literally a development strategy: .0000X% of a level per monster kill at the high levels just to allow patches to flow together such that players which play roughly 7 hours a day doing just grinding would reach the level cap roughly by the release of the next increase of the level cap. It did this because it was the only affordable way to guarantee their more-than-casual player-base wouldn’t just churn through content that took months to make in a week.

And this model objectively fails in the west. Western gamers don’t like being led on by a carrot on a stick, and don’t like to see that people with too much spare time end up on the top of the charts for no other reason than that spare time.

League of Legends is a PvP game. But that’s where the money is in multiplayer games. Unless development costs in terms of time/money are negligible, only PvP multiplayer games will turn massive profits long-term if the intent is to keep supporting them indefinitely. Games like those in the Souls franchise demonstrate this; long after the co-op online play dissolves, the PvP community is still going, despite no patches. After a DLC comes out, the PvE players come back in droves to beat it, maybe replay the content five or six more times, and then withdraw. The PvP community still trudges on for years afterwards.

Realistically, how else do you keep PvE players entertained while new content gets developed, all while turning a profit? It’s simply not possible on the AAA scale without just stumbling into huge amounts of money. The underlying gameplay just has to be so good to keep people invested in general. If that collapses, everything will.

Which is why you have so many people in PvE complaining about profession balance, too. The gameplay since launch has gotten stale and crippled, and rather than trying to fix it, we’re seeing massive resources go into niche markets like raids, over-designed maps, bug fixes to give programmers something to do, and ever-increasing in quantity, and inversely quality, skin releases.

The pillars which made GW2 amazing at its start have largely crumbled, and ANet’s negligence and/or incompetence has been responsible for its bleeding of players and subsequently profits, and such a lack of keeping the core tenets of the game well-maintained will be its demise.

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Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Anet is having a difficult time producing content and making substantial improvements to every part of the game with the amount of staff it has currently, so what do you think it will look like if staff “restructuring”, aka layoffs, start to happen?

Focusing on one thing instead of ten parallel projects and failing on all of them? Take a look at League of Legends. Millions of players and very simple concept: buy champions and skins and play with them. The trick is to make gameplay experience unique. That means respecting the player. Player comes back when he has had good time.

Opening this game is like starting a work shift. There’s that progress bar and what items did I need for this quest? List this stuff to trading post one by one. I should start LFG and… screw that! I’m not even getting paid for this. Why am I wasting my life?

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Posted by: Daroon.1736

Daroon.1736

So much for “challenging group content” boosting the game – Casuals leaving was expected.
Too bad most “hardcore groupers” seem to spend ingame-gold instead of RL-cash.
Catering to the least profitable group 101?

I never buy gems with gold, I spend 100s of euros per year on gems
buying gems with gold is a bad use of my time

Let me ask, do you feel you get your money’s worth on Gem Purchases?

Not really, considering I could buy at least 10 full AAA games for my gem purchases

yea I kinda thought so.

The last time I bought a series of Gems was on the Heroes weapon sets (Kasmeer’s Staff, Majory’s Daggers…ect) when they were first released.

Since then I have just banked Gold into Gems on a weekly Basis, but I cant bring myself to buy anything on the store anymore. Its all just a bunch of lame stuff that will do nothing for me. Its all Glider Skins and outfits.

They need to change their direction with what they are doing here. and fast.

But what could they sell in shop to make more money without going straight up pay to win? I would like to see armor sets over outfits again, but Anet insists they are too much work

Lots of things, actually. But anything I say on the subject will start a flame war and ruin this thread :-)

But, does not have to be pay to win to be successful.

Well then, here’s your thread to suggest what will make ANet tons of money, Suggestions: Gemstore items

I look forward to seeing what you post there.

Gem store sales are the issue the report highlights, they are not however the underlying long term problem.

Sadly, instead of attempting to fix those underlying problems. ALL of which are related to the release of HOT, Anet has decided that another expansion is the answer!

GG

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Posted by: Gray.9041

Gray.9041

Revenue dipped significantly below what it was pre-HoT… that’s not good. Looks like HoT actually did drive away a large portion of players.

I doubt HoT drove people away, more likely the content drought post HoT caused that.

I dunno, most of the players I knew around the launch of HoT were pretty active in the lead up… and then just sort of stopped playing after. even players who hadn’t just come back for HoT.

heck, my guild of 200+ players went from pretty active to dead in the month or so after HoT launch – long before the content drought set in. it’s a story I’ve heard more than once. I don’t have hard stats, but there’s been enough happen to me and the people I know to convince me that it did.

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Posted by: Rezzet.3614

Rezzet.3614

Freedom , was the game’s biggest selling point play the game in a style that suits you ,
now theres grinding to unlock more grinding mixed with time gates and sometimes timegates to unlock timegates , it was all about playing a game and having fun, now this feels like a chore and another job.

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Posted by: Mirta.5029

Mirta.5029

I actually pre-ordered HoT because FF14 turned into a pile of rubbish with actual content droughts and really only fillers.

what content drought? In 3.3 we got 4 dungeons with one being spawned by maps and another one which was essentially fractals, wrap up of the story, a 24 man raid, new sidequests, two different summer events. That’s in the last 3 months. Heck GW2 content drought sent me there in the first place.

And I hope it stays this way. This audience is the last we need. If they want “distraction” of their life (which sounds like they are not quite in a good shape mentally),

that’s a bold statement. Why do you play MMOs then? To remind you of your life? To ground you in reality? Nice way of insulting the majority of all MMO players.

they can play some tablet games or on their phones. Same with consoles where nobody responds because they do not have keyboards/connected their keyboards (source: FF14).

If this game turns down the difficulty to cater the “console and tablet mini gamers” then I am out for sure.

it already did so multiple times after HoT released. Together with making it very easy to get Tequatl achievements this patch. As for consoles? More players never hurt. If GW2 team had the time and hit a good deal with Microsoft or Sony, I would say “go ahead!”.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

“What we are planning to do going forward is that we are going to shorten the span for the next launch of the expansion pack. So right now we are in the phase for preparing for the 2nd expansion pack we ae going to shorten the launch timing between the different boxes that we launch to create more momentum. "

Good to see ArenaNet doubling down with their quantity over quality strategy.

Remember, this isn’t ANet saying this but NCSOFT to analysts, which is what they want to hear. They don’t care about any of the games NCSOFT markets, just the bottom line. Don’t forget, NCSOFT said an expansion was coming a year after the game launched in a conference call.

That was on a call though, if its on paper its more tangible.
Just like the 2015 Jan 3rd Budget report that projected what the Expansion set to release was going to make, I would put more weight into something down in a Financial document then something over a conference call.

What report was that? Certainly not the Daewoo outrageous guesstimate?

I dont remember which report, but it was the one that said the est HoT sales was going to be 10,000,000. Which if you did the math, put the MSRP of HOT at 49.99, which is what it was.

So say what you want….

That was an analyst’s guestimate what the expansion was going to bring in, not anything from NCSOFT or ANet. They, Daewoo, quickly walked back that estimate within a few weeks.

And I don’t remember any White Knights here asking for an expansion. It was the naysayers who disliked living world clamored for a “traditional” expansion.

Then you really weren’t on the forums that much from 2012-2014. I can remember a handful of threads with 200-300 replies about ‘why GW2 needs an expansion’.

So yes, the player base on the forums were fighting for/against expansions prior to 2015.

And Daewoo, or whoever, marked that the Expansion was going to cost 50 bucks and so it did. Even if they back stepped they were not wrong in the MSRP that NCSoft was going to ask for it.

Much like how if there is talks about a new Exp per year for GW2 I would guess we can expect a 14-16 month cycle for expansions realistically if they do go that route.

But, I/myself, will no longer buy expansions for this game. HoT left such a poor taste for me that I refuse to take another bite from that platter. Anet/NCSoft is going to have to come up with a new content delivery scheme if they want any more of my money.

I think I’m one of the top ten posters here, nearly 11K … so I’ve been here nearly the entire time the game’s been live.

I don’t deny there were threads asking for raids, harder content, I’m saying it wasn’t White Knights asking for it since they were satisfied with the game including living world as a means to add content to the game at a steady rate. It was players who were upset that GW2 wasn’t GW with a regular release of box expansions.

Now you may be confused because White Knights generally support whatever decision the devs make. So when the devs said the expansion will have raids, WK said okay. When the devs said the critter AI would be improved so they would be more challenging , WK said OK. WK just support the devs decisions whatever they may be.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: Seyiwaji.4082

Seyiwaji.4082

Just saying now, I told you so, to all the people who kept screaming for an expansion for years, and the white knights claiming HoT would be a huge boon for profits and the number of active players.

Expansions, unless in widely-popular subscription games, do not make money. Microtransactions for cosmetics do, and focusing on important things like gameplay make any content droughts much more enjoyable. Games like League, which has an astrononical budget know this; almost all profit comes from skins and their tight gameplay mechanics and good balance, with a very occasional new champion/content release.

ANet has failed repeatedly to provide us with a quality, detail-driven gameplay experience as a whole for well over a year, now. Most aspects of the game which were once great selling points have been stymied, while an excess of attention has been put in all the wrong places in hopes to expand their bleeding playerbase via niche markets. Unfortunately, the real, hard truth is that the existing greatness of the game is being continuously tarnished through negligence, and in many respects, blatant ineptitude of maintaining such a great experience.

If every MMO has a failing, it’s lack of content. The fact is the model is designed for players to spend a lot of time at it, but in the process they rapidly burn through content and find themselves wondering what to do next. It’s the big content patches/expansions players look forward to at that point.

You seem to be suggesting that instead of developing the HoT expansion, ANet should have focused on class balance. In other words, the game was almost perfect and should have been left that way (more or less).

Are you primarily a PvP player? Because that actually makes a lot of sense in the PvP realm. PvP players are far more sensitive to balance issues. New content is great, but ultimately you’re there to compete against other players and you can’t do that very well when they drop a bunch of overpowered elite specs that only half the players have access to into the mix.

However, on the PvE side of the coin, these forums are full of players who dislike HoT and probably wish it had never happened. But do you think before HoT released they were looking forward to nothing but minor balance tweaks and the odd content release every now and then? Not likely!

PvE players want content. They always want content. Balance is great, but they play the game cooperatively or by themselves rather than competitively (for the most part). They aren’t sensitive to the razor’s edge on balance issues the way PvP players are and they don’t get as much replay value out of the combat itself as AI is far less dynamic.

You referenced “League” (I assume league of legends?). I’ve never played that one, but is it primarily a PvP game? If so, do you think perhaps their model of maintaining and refining class balance with only minor content upgrades would be a good fit in a heavy PvE game like GW2?

I primarily play(ed) WvW (quit on the 7/26 patch), which is the objectively most stale and most neglected format in the game. Quite frankly, I’ve been playing almost every day since before release, and still got enjoyment out of the game’s mechanics and the capacity for players to shape how events unfolded. Out of necessity to uphold my 2g/hour food, I did PvE. A lot of it. Dungeons were a great start to the game and offered substantial replayability in respects to the content design. The AI, as you said, wasn’t there, but it’s nigh impossible to make good, fast-performing AI that will extend the lifespan of the content dramatically before being figured out.

Which, in all seriousness, is the entire purpose of MMO’s in general: players shaping the world. Ask yourself if you’d rather play a single player game for its story or progression or gameplay or have the community of a guild/group/clan with a shared interest. If you’re only here for story, you’re playing the wrong game (sorry, but GW2’s story hasn’t been brag-worthy), and quite frankly, the wrong genre of game. It’s like complaining that there isn’t enough character development and interaction in FPS games.

Honestly, anyone pretending like making PvE MMO’s is a profitable endeavor doesn’t understand that unless the game is designed to take the players years to reach endgame, it’s going to lose money because the interest in PvE will wane due to its players beating content faster than what the game’s publisher can generate, unless it happens to get an absurd amount of financial backing and player support. ANet doesn’t have these resources. Pretty much nobody does; WoW being only close to an exception (and WoW also undergoes content droughts). Simply, it’s not even feasible to expect AAA quality coming at a rate as fast as players can consume it. Especially if the idea is to keep the game accessible by B2P or free.

GW2 marketed itself heavily as the play-as-you-wish, casual-friendly game in 2012 with a good amount of support and lots of developer interaction, which most Eastern imports cannot boast. The figures do not lie: ANet made back its development investment costs in the first year out of this ideology, and did well for itself within a level of expectation almost deliberately until HoT efforts began. The game was intended to be community-heavy, with extra bells and whistles thrown into things like character dyes, town clothes, and as of the early trailer/game ideals, character personalities and how they could affect aspects of gameplay or story. The core game was meant to be (and is) very deep, with a plethora of hidden secrets for people to discover, as to keep them entertained, with a diverse cast and in almost all respects, many, many options on just how players wished to play the game and be relatively/appropriately rewarded. They pushed for good profession balance with the dev transparency and attention to e-sports to monetize and gain support to turn more of a profit, since well-balanced games tend to do better than poorly-balanced ones (I.E. what we’ve been seeing since a little bit before HoT).

As far as balance goes, PvE is much more vocal about it and has gotten much more attention to their issues than the PvP/WvW side. Almost all major public releases of number-crunching, the whole “berserker meta” nonsense which largely got us into a horrible state of balance, talks over class viability, etc. via numbers come from the PvE community. In fact, I’d actually argue the exclusivity of the PvE community min-maxing has led to a large motive as to why players are so often chomping at the bit for new content: a few min-maxers post the next FoTM build or comp on a major website/stream, and the “hardcore” players copy-paste the build thinking nothing of it, and rush the content down.

The few weeks after launch were chaos in the absolute best ways, and some people I played with at level 80 didn’t even know what traits were, and most players were in greens and a few rares, with maybe an odd exotic. The few people who had figured anything out didn’t have the time and popularity to just let people copy-paste their builds, and the infrastructure of such sharing sites like metabattle or GW2skills wasn’t there, either.

The small episodes of LS every two weeks were icing to keep things fresh as to give both more hardcore and casual players a reason to keep coming back and keeping up with the game, but this cadence proved both unsustainable from a business perspective, and difficult for the players due to a constant dependency of needing to log in for an episode’ s period, which could not be replayed. So they dropped the concept.

GW2 was not meant to be a new-content-churning, hardcore PvE game.

I worked for a Korean grinder and this was quite literally a development strategy: .0000X% of a level per monster kill at the high levels just to allow patches to flow together such that players which play roughly 7 hours a day doing just grinding would reach the level cap roughly by the release of the next increase of the level cap. It did this because it was the only affordable way to guarantee their more-than-casual player-base wouldn’t just churn through content that took months to make in a week.

And this model objectively fails in the west. Western gamers don’t like being led on by a carrot on a stick, and don’t like to see that people with too much spare time end up on the top of the charts for no other reason than that spare time.

League of Legends is a PvP game. But that’s where the money is in multiplayer games. Unless development costs in terms of time/money are negligible, only PvP multiplayer games will turn massive profits long-term if the intent is to keep supporting them indefinitely. Games like those in the Souls franchise demonstrate this; long after the co-op online play dissolves, the PvP community is still going, despite no patches. After a DLC comes out, the PvE players come back in droves to beat it, maybe replay the content five or six more times, and then withdraw. The PvP community still trudges on for years afterwards.

Realistically, how else do you keep PvE players entertained while new content gets developed, all while turning a profit? It’s simply not possible on the AAA scale without just stumbling into huge amounts of money. The underlying gameplay just has to be so good to keep people invested in general. If that collapses, everything will.

Which is why you have so many people in PvE complaining about profession balance, too. The gameplay since launch has gotten stale and crippled, and rather than trying to fix it, we’re seeing massive resources go into niche markets like raids, over-designed maps, bug fixes to give programmers something to do, and ever-increasing in quantity, and inversely quality, skin releases.

The pillars which made GW2 amazing at its start have largely crumbled, and ANet’s negligence and/or incompetence has been responsible for its bleeding of players and subsequently profits, and such a lack of keeping the core tenets of the game well-maintained will be its demise.

Praise the lord

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Just saying now, I told you so, to all the people who kept screaming for an expansion for years, and the white knights claiming HoT would be a huge boon for profits and the number of active players.

Expansions, unless in widely-popular subscription games, do not make money. Microtransactions for cosmetics do, and focusing on important things like gameplay make any content droughts much more enjoyable. Games like League, which has an astrononical budget know this; almost all profit comes from skins and their tight gameplay mechanics and good balance, with a very occasional new champion/content release.

ANet has failed repeatedly to provide us with a quality, detail-driven gameplay experience as a whole for well over a year, now. Most aspects of the game which were once great selling points have been stymied, while an excess of attention has been put in all the wrong places in hopes to expand their bleeding playerbase via niche markets. Unfortunately, the real, hard truth is that the existing greatness of the game is being continuously tarnished through negligence, and in many respects, blatant ineptitude of maintaining such a great experience.

It isn’t over till it’s over. HoT had a lot of issues that had nothing to do with HoT that absolutely affected HoT sales. You can say I told you so all you want but I bet the next expansion is going to be a different story, because that’s how Anet tends to roll. They learn from the first one and the next one gets better.

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Posted by: Eroder.7698

Eroder.7698

Pay for Expac, but we’re adding the game free of charge with no discount for people who already bought it!

The exact reason I will never buy another game from this company again. I pre-purchased the original GW2 due to dumping years into the GW"1" series, took leave while I was in the Marine Corps for two weeks just so I could play… and then this? Sorry…. stuff it… I am done.
Edit: I should mention, that I was actually coming back tonight to check everything out and perhaps purchase, but with everything that I am seeing… don’t think I am going to dump any more cash into them.

(edited by Eroder.7698)

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Posted by: Ardenwolfe.8590

Ardenwolfe.8590

I think I’m one of the top ten posters here, nearly 11K … so I’ve been here nearly the entire time the game’s been live.

I don’t deny there were threads asking for raids, harder content, I’m saying it wasn’t White Knights asking for it since they were satisfied with the game including living world as a means to add content to the game at a steady rate. It was players who were upset that GW2 wasn’t GW with a regular release of box expansions.

Sadly, those players have left the building in the aftermath.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/You-re-doing-it-wrong/first

I’ve also been around since the forums opened. The link above is the first time I had the discussion about an expansion. I’ll let people read the thread above and decide who was right and who was wrong and who’s singing the same tune regardless.

The community can decide for themselves.

Gone to Reddit.

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Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Which, in all seriousness, is the entire purpose of MMO’s in general: players shaping the world. Ask yourself if you’d rather play a single player game for its story or progression or gameplay or have the community of a guild/group/clan with a shared interest.

Single player game hands down. What’s better experience than having hand-crafted storyline and systems that support your playing? Pay upfront fee for game and rest assured that money making hasn’t affected game design.

Argument could be made that playing with and against other players is more fun than playing against poor AI. But that would require systems that support it: Social systems in this game is basically a chat room. Take away chat and what do you have left?

Let’s take WvW for example. You’re running towards enemy camp to capture it. Nobody knows you’re there. You could ask in borderlands chat “anybody here?” (I’ve done it couple of times) and get no response. It doesn’t get much sadder than that. It is crucial for players to feel their contributions matter. Chipping away at some undefended structure door is not it. Yes, I would rather play a single player game where developers cared about my experience.

There’s the door. You got a ram right?
Quick, build it.
Hit the door. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Door’s down. Run for the lord.

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Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

With HoT they just set the difficulty level too high for the average player. GW1 and GW2 have always been casual games with vast amounts of quite easy content. HoT upset that balance, which pleased some folks but not others. For me, it’s not fun so I mostly don’t go there. For my wife, well she stopped playing at the very start of the HoT story line. That bit where you have to earn gliding to proceed but it’s hard to earn XP because you can’t kill much and you can’t follow the gliding, bouncing zergfest. So I can state as a fact that HoT caused a massive 50% of players in our household to stop playing.

The April update and LS3 improved things considerably but, guess what, it’s too late to get back many of those players that left. And that is bound to hit the profits.

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Posted by: Griffin.5379

Griffin.5379

With HoT they just set the difficulty level too high for the average player. GW1 and GW2 have always been casual games with vast amounts of quite easy content. HoT upset that balance, which pleased some folks but not others. For me, it’s not fun so I mostly don’t go there. For my wife, well she stopped playing at the very start of the HoT story line. That bit where you have to earn gliding to proceed but it’s hard to earn XP because you can’t kill much and you can’t follow the gliding, bouncing zergfest. So I can state as a fact that HoT caused a massive 50% of players in our household to stop playing.

One could simply wait for the night events and help out there, plenty of players plenty of xp and depending on the boss that spawn, gliding is not absolutely necessary,
getting your first 1-2 masteries in gliding just by staying around in an event at night is possible, or helping camps build during the day. All easy, all with a lot of other players normally and all without the need for gliding

die HoT maps them self are not that hard, the enemies are more challenging yes but all in all maybe a little increase in difficulty if you played all the 80 level before.

Raids now are another matter, those are supposed to be extremely challenging PvE experiences.

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Posted by: Shadow Bane.9362

Shadow Bane.9362

The period of the content drought is painfully obvious here.

I’ve seen massive guilds just up and leave vowing never to return due to balance issues limited build variety in the min/max end for pve, pvp, lack of action in wvw etc(most of these aside from raids were people pre-hot). The updates to fractals taking too long, no dungeons, no new armor sets only outfits. I think outfits could still be expanded a bit with more show/hide options allowing your helmet to show through etc.. could help go a long way without having to be tooled to become full armor.

These are the kind of things your average MMO player expects and ANet hasn’t been delivering for them. This is a failure to meet baseline industry expectations and it’s biting them in the kitten .

I’m terrified that if they drop the ball with living story 3 in any way things will become irreparable. This is my favorite franchise and favorite game currently but I’m starting to wonder if they are being held back by too much internal management or if their game engine really is the kind of sordid mess I’ve heard it to be.

(edited by Shadow Bane.9362)

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Posted by: Drakz.7051

Drakz.7051

Well I have played since Beta and I see that Anet are in a bad place. If they rush the next expac then we get another HoT, broken and needing alot of work before it is playable to a good degree, take too long and more people will leave because LS 3 is over and they have nothing new to do.

When they said they would now roll out updates in big bundles I actually thought the game was heading on back up to being a game I would enjoy, but then we got a map that takes a day to finish, including all the achievements, a fractal which is old ones stitched together and some fixes in prep for next pvp league.

I have moved onto other games and have stopped buying from them, if I will resume paying for in game stuff depends on the quality of LS 3 which as for episode one I felt was alright, good ending to the first ep, but very lacking in time spent as once I was finished with the new map had no other reason to stick around until next release.

Would rather spent my money on games that actively add to the core game, not just their cash shop.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Well I have played since Beta and I see that Anet are in a bad place. If they rush the next expac then we get another HoT, broken and needing alot of work before it is playable to a good degree, take too long and more people will leave because LS 3 is over and they have nothing new to do.

When they said they would now roll out updates in big bundles I actually thought the game was heading on back up to being a game I would enjoy, but then we got a map that takes a day to finish, including all the achievements, a fractal which is old ones stitched together and some fixes in prep for next pvp league.

I have moved onto other games and have stopped buying from them, if I will resume paying for in game stuff depends on the quality of LS 3 which as for episode one I felt was alright, good ending to the first ep, but very lacking in time spent as once I was finished with the new map had no other reason to stick around until next release.

Would rather spent my money on games that actively add to the core game, not just their cash shop.

I would personally like to see something like $25 “bundles”/mini Xpacks come out every 6 months with a couple new zones, full 3 wing raid, profession updates, elites with new weapons, legendary skins…, and have open world LS updates and events every 2 months that lead us to the next mini Xpack.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Vyrulisse.1246

Vyrulisse.1246

Expect an announcement for the start of the development of Guild Wars 3 later this year.

I really hope not. I know a lot of Guild Wars 2 players weren’t around for Guild Wars 1 but I was since the early betas and I really don’t want GW2 to suffer the same fate as 1 did. Yeah it’s still on but they pretty much stopped all development on it in one fell swoop. Unfinished new quests, long promised class reworks left to fester in whatever condition they were in, Utopia completely scrapped in favor of GW2… it was sad to see.

Not to mention they throw GW1 players a bone every once in a blue moon, recently we got Balthazar Skins for a celebration which is fun, but at this point it’s more of an insult than anything else, a small morsel of false hope that maybe it wasn’t totally forgotten… but we know it was.

I really hope GW2’s playerbase doesn’t have to experience the same.

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Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I would personally like to see something like $25 “bundles”/mini Xpacks come out every 6 months with a couple new zones, full 3 wing raid, profession updates, elites with new weapons, legendary skins…, and have open world LS updates and events every 2 months that lead us to the next mini Xpack.

That’s what HoT is, they just priced it wrong.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

I enjoyed heart of thorns. I did not enjoy the 8 month window after HOT with no content other than raids.

As others have said, somewhere along the line, Anet made the decision to market to more traditional MMO players in an attempt to bring in new revenue. They carbon copied end game from those games (raids in GW2 are uninventive and basically lifted from every other raiding MMO).

In the process, they diluted their resources so much that they were no longer able to keep the core game feeling alive. Even the most recent update, which was amazing btw great, is now being pretty much passed by. They have to do more – and when they do it, it needs to appeal to the core communities that support this game.

  • If they insist on continuing with raids, they need to reevaluate the model to generate more mass appeal
  • They have to support popular large group activities more, specifically overhauling world bosses (including loot), creating new guild missions (it’s been 3+ years), guild hall activities, etc
  • Armor and weapon skins cannot be an “expansion only” perk. The game reward is based on cosmetics. Putting that behind a pay wall just feels like backpedalling.
  • The cadence for new content has to be meatier. Every 2-3 months is fine, but focus on adding things that create ongoing fun content (guild missions are a good example)
  • They have a lot to prove to us before they should be allowed to use the word “expansion.” One semi-significant content update post HOT and promises about a new update cadence isn’t enough to reinstill consumer confidence in this product. We will need to see – at bare minimum – content equivalent to Season Two beforehand. Using the announced schedule, and seeing the last update, that will take them, if they can do ever 2 months, at leat 2 years to release – 3 if they end up releasing every 3 months (considerably longer if they start considering holiday updates as major updates).

Most Importantly, they need to get back to the basics and philosophies they used when they designed the core game and delivered on amazing content in the first two seasons (marionette, tower of nightmares, escape from LA, etc).

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

I’m not surprised, the game’s getting older, which tends to hurt sales. There’s been nothing new to compensate for this.
And there’s been no new content in the game for a long time which probably reduced player numbers which in turn should lead to reduced sales for the cash shop/RMT business.

The game getting older but when we play older mmo’s…. it feels more of a game than gw2 press 1 key to spam damage or go to eotm / Wvw join the zerg and karma train less population servers.
Crafting is very boring on gw2 and a gold sink trap.
PvP is a joke, needs several changes.
Game needs ugently GVG with ladder like gw1.
Make gw2 less spammy…. theres to much aoe\cleaves in this game.~to be a good\decent pvp game.
Removed trinkets need to be re-added, with the balances acording, make trinkets stats diferent from class to class, since not all classes use well the stats and that would be easier for balance/adjustment in future.

Im impressed with L1 and l2 sales.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

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Posted by: Raven.1524

Raven.1524

How about making a subscription based option ONLY for convenience?
-availability of free hair stylists
-no wp charge (it’s only a few coins anyways, don’t think it will affect the economy)
-no transmutation charged required for the wardrobe
-unlocked outfits only while you are subscribed (turning them off while the sub ends, unless you bought them)
-unlocked common minis and dyes for the sub duration
-portable bank, or crafting station (1 or 2 weeks)

Stuff like that, which doesn’t really upset the economy nor anything and gives a stable income to the dev for people paying for the ultimate convenience. (For that reason alone I didn’t touch subjects like the tax at the market because that would affect the economy)

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Posted by: Necrum Davengers.3519

Necrum Davengers.3519

I’m not surprised by this:
Visual effects downgrade kittening off too many people ( me too)
Deserts dungeon in Lfg because they had this good idea by nerfed the rewards
After 9 mouth of the expansions now the make a good content “Out of the Shadows”
WvW rofl it’s still same nothing has changed
PvP meh
And i can go on about their mistakes.

(edited by Necrum Davengers.3519)

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Posted by: slashlizardy.9167

slashlizardy.9167

I am worried about the state of the game now. Because if we got HoT due to MOB instead of CJ, and now CJ is gone, and we would be left with MOB’s vision of the game. And HoT has been a serious disappointment.

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Posted by: egzius.9031

egzius.9031

hooray, now they’ll have to release the ls3 episodes sooner or they won’t be in time for the next expansion. of course, unless they cut the ls3 short and just roll out expansion now.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Which, in all seriousness, is the entire purpose of MMO’s in general: players shaping the world. Ask yourself if you’d rather play a single player game for its story or progression or gameplay or have the community of a guild/group/clan with a shared interest.

Single player game hands down. What’s better experience than having hand-crafted storyline and systems that support your playing? Pay upfront fee for game and rest assured that money making hasn’t affected game design.

Argument could be made that playing with and against other players is more fun than playing against poor AI. But that would require systems that support it: Social systems in this game is basically a chat room. Take away chat and what do you have left?

Let’s take WvW for example. You’re running towards enemy camp to capture it. Nobody knows you’re there. You could ask in borderlands chat “anybody here?” (I’ve done it couple of times) and get no response. It doesn’t get much sadder than that. It is crucial for players to feel their contributions matter. Chipping away at some undefended structure door is not it. Yes, I would rather play a single player game where developers cared about my experience.

There’s the door. You got a ram right?
Quick, build it.
Hit the door. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Hit it again. Wait 3 second cooldown.
Door’s down. Run for the lord.

Then like I said, you’re in the wrong genre. You’re looking for a single-player experience in an MMO. Communities of players run MMO’s. Ancient games with no new development efforts still get played because of the community backbone (private servers, smaller games, etc.). It’s not profitable to be a PvE-MMO. That’s why wildstar is failing and never actually did well to begin with. It’s conceptually a bad business move and most major development studios already know this. I can say now that FF14 from a systems standpoint wouldn’t last as long as it will compared to major PvP-centric game, either. I think its success largely has to do with the attention it’s garnered over its repeated failures, and that there are quite frankly many people who have an odd obsession with the FF lore and universe that ride the legacy of other games in the franchise to promote it.

You also can’t really talk about an arbitrary WvW server at an arbitrary time/location (context matters) as being the model for online play. Putting competitive play aside, looking to WvW as a model is flawed: WvW’s had no development focus on it until 2016. No game with no development effort is going to succeed, MMO or not, because it won’t get developed in general if there are not people developing it. The format started out as a massive success. The community is still large, albeit waning with the existing balance problems, which suggest you’re also not being part of the WvW community to have such boring play. Back to online/competitive play in general, a single, boring online experience isn’t usable as a basis for the design of online models and how to monetize from them. PvP is better than any AI, because there is nothing which can raise the intrigue of another human adversary in games, particularly when the environments are dynamic. No AI is good enough to provide just the right difficulty over a broad set of experiences. Typically it either ends up dominating, or being too easy. Wherever a given player’s abilities stand, it usually ends up being one or the other; adaptable AI is difficult to make. So difficult, it’s not within the realm of reason to expect from most game publishers, particularly, again, in MMO’s, where there is substantial overhead and an emphasis towards the community making the game what it is.

(edited by DeceiverX.8361)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

How about making a subscription based option ONLY for convenience?
-availability of free hair stylists
-no wp charge (it’s only a few coins anyways, don’t think it will affect the economy)
-no transmutation charged required for the wardrobe
-unlocked outfits only while you are subscribed (turning them off while the sub ends, unless you bought them)
-unlocked common minis and dyes for the sub duration
-portable bank, or crafting station (1 or 2 weeks)

Stuff like that, which doesn’t really upset the economy nor anything and gives a stable income to the dev for people paying for the ultimate convenience. (For that reason alone I didn’t touch subjects like the tax at the market because that would affect the economy)

People who want to spend extra money on aesthetics already do. That’s why that concurrent to the expansion, more than two thirds of ANet’s revenue came from gem sales, not the expansion itself, despite more people buying the expansion and the price being at $50. There are tons of players that spend that much money on close to a daily basis to keep up with every new costume and gem store release. That’s not the norm, but simply, people shell out money when they think the experience in the core game they’re getting is worth it. It’s why League of Legends is so successfully financially, despite having everything except aesthetics available for free with no buy-in. And many people spend much more on skins than what a WoW membership would run them, just because they like what they’re getting.

If the player is having to deliberate extensively over whether or not they’re happy paying for what they’re going to get, or feel any strain or sense of obligation to buy what they may buy, it means something is wrong. Purchases should be willingly made with a good and safe justification, without the player needing to fear about the game’s integrity or what may happen regarding the purchase in subsequent days/months/years.

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Remember when they presented Stronghold as GvG on the day of HoT’s announcement and the audience cheered?

They know that the competitive community want a GvG mode ever since the game was released but they keep avoiding the topic every time it is brought up as if it is a censored topic.

If they want to make a fortune and see their number go up it’s not complicated:
Add a GvG mode with a guild ladder and complete stats tracking. Let the community build the features with a open beta testing ground in constant evolution.

They can even just add open World PvP/GvG with Guild Alliances so they don’t even have to design new maps.

How it works:
The game randomly choose a region where a “Guild War” occur (like the Scarlett attacks used to work). The map becomes red on the world map and everyone going there is either in open PvP or GvG. Sides appear on different corners of the map. The score of the Guilds/Players from a certain alliance is added to a WvW server alliance made of the same guilds/players.

Simple way to make the game more interesting. What Anet needs right now is just some imagination and the guts to do something new.
All hell will break lose, and it takes a minimum of development time.

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Posted by: ekarat.1085

ekarat.1085

Killing off dungeons was a huge mistake. I´m really missing small group instanced content so I rarely play the game anymore and will likely move on to WoW Legion because of this. Raids don´t count because they cater to the 0.5% of the community.

Then go run dungeons. They restored the rewards and even added them to dailies sometimes.

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Posted by: ekarat.1085

ekarat.1085

Remember when they presented Stronghold as GvG on the day of HoT’s announcement and the audience cheered?

They know that the competitive community want a GvG mode ever since the game was released but they keep avoiding the topic every time it is brought up as if it is a censored topic.

If they want to make a fortune and see their number go up it’s not complicated:
Add a GvG mode with a guild ladder and complete stats tracking. Let the community build the features with a open beta testing ground in constant evolution.

They can even just add open World PvP/GvG with Guild Alliances so they don’t even have to design new maps.

How it works:
The game randomly choose a region where a “Guild War” occur (like the Scarlett attacks used to work). The map becomes red on the world map and everyone going there is either in open PvP or GvG. Sides appear on different corners of the map. The score of the Guilds/Players from a certain alliance is added to a WvW server alliance made of the same guilds/players.

Simple way to make the game more interesting. What Anet needs right now is just some imagination and the guts to do something new.
All hell will break lose, and it takes a minimum of development time.

We know that they have been working on a massive WvW revamp for a very long time. The changes we got were a piece they broke off because it was taking too long.

I would not be surprised if they announced that they were working on a GvG mode but they had a lot of problems and pushbacks — like what to do about the current server system, and not to exclude people that aren’t in guilds but want to WvW, etc.

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

Well first off the game is F2P without HoT, if people have a poor experience not being able to keep up with HoT it’s unlikely casual people will buy just to keep up.

I cannot comment on WvW but I can feel the disappointment radiating from the player base. So people are unlikely to buy into HoT for WvW, or get inducted from other games.

PvE is clearly A-nets bread and butter, since there hasn’t been too much until recently I can understand a decline in profit, and desire to push an expansion. As for gemstore (which has little to do with game sales) there have been some good options. But keep making skins like the ‘few green/pink/purple sprinkes on white frosting’ and very few will care.

PvP on the other hand is being forced into an E-sport, when:
1. No one wants to watch the game since it’s not clean enough, or viewer friendly enough, unless you already have a previous investment to the game. Even then, very few uninitiated viewers will not need a ‘double take’ to understand what happend in a matchup. Casters help, but it’s not enough when the game doesn’t make it obvious.

2. The game type is not very interesting or fun to watch, this could just be considered a personal bias, but many people feel the same and it shows with the views. 3 way territories, and kittenized moba maps are not fun to watch for many.

3. Balance is bad. The TTK is either to high or to low, and often is to rewarding to the “easier” option creating apex predators that dominate with ease. This means plays are ultimetly less impressive and people stop being invested in watching.

4. Thanks to various factors including the above, there is also no real in match counter building. In fact you can be punished for doing so. The ability to counter-build/counter-comp the enemy team is minimal, and unappealing for both playing and watching.

5. The toxicity. I realize it doesn’t need to be super care-bear. But in a team based game, the players act similar to those in fighting game scenes, lacking the professionalism in public view like most PC E-sports including but not limited to Starcraft as an example. As for new players it doesn’t help, with the mentality of “if you die, you’re bad regardless of context.” as opposed to other games where losing to your counter is considered expected. This is also not helped due to the lack of 1v1 balance, and apex predators who can survive 2-3v1.

GuildWars 2 will never be a E-sport interesting enough for non players (hell even non PvPers), unless the entire format changes. This WILL affect long run sales, especially from those who bought into the game from release expecting ‘Balance on the level of Overwatch, or BnS’, and instead getting this. Not only will other games cannibalize the viewership slot, but those people from release will turn people away from GW2 as a PvP game. (I’m aware overwatch did not exist at the time, but it’s a indication of expectation.)

“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

E-Sport is advertising. If it brings in new paying players, it’s a plus. The tournament structure in game gives gives PvPers a goal to strive for, the slight chance of money at the end is a bonus but it’s mostly about ego and the tag next to their name.

And toxicity in PvP, well that’s PvP. It’s been like that in every game with PvP. It’s been like that since kids first started to play king of the mountain.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes