(edited by Fox.1054)
GW2 feels cold
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Despite it being open world GW2 is ironically actually less social than GW1.
The whole free mission structure is gone, which was a lot of fun to do with guildies. Dungeons are limited to 5 players instead of 12, do not require a massive team synergy setup but can be beaten by just a combination of 5 individual cookie-cutter builds. Helping and exploring with friends is discouraged by making waypoints cost money. There’s no longer a vast variety of builds and PvP modes to discuss. No guild halls and no strict party doesn’t really add to the group feeling. Cities are WAY too big for their purpose which makes them feel desolate. Trading post completely removed the one-on-one bartering.
People running around you for rewards is not social. People grinding the ‘living world’ is not social. Playing WvW is not social. Even the events are not social. If they replaced all players with automated bots I would not notice the difference, because this game is inherently non-social, desolate and cold. I’d rather be in an instance with 7 other people who actually talk to me and express themselves than be in an open world with 200 people that just walk around minding their own business and never even talk.
There is no basis for a community, the desperate feeling and thematics of the areas is completely lacking. In GW1 with the whole searing, fellowship to the north, jungle, desert, shiver peaks people were ENCOURAGED to stick together. It actually felt like there was a whole community thing going on and you could really notice that. People bartered with each other rather than running up to an auction house, people created parties to do hard missions, people talked to each other for advice and builds, people all hated Alisia ( for good reasons ). There was a feeling of fellowship that this game will simply never have. It feels cold, it feels desolate and it feels like this game will never be that kind of game you would call home, that kind of game where you would call your fellow players friends.
Sure you can add gear, grinding goals, new content but you can never create a feeling without actually loving what you make. That is exactly what the few veteran developers did when they left Blizzard and started to create what they always wanted to create. Unbound by economists, concerns of popularity, thoughts about ease of use or ‘design’. They just made what they loved and always wanted to make.
GW series lost its heart
OP, I would pose a different analogy, though not everyone can relate to it.
It is much like when a person is 4 or 5 years of age, a mere child, and they are taken to Disneyland for the very first time (or an equivalent). It’s a fantasy world filled with endless fun and discovery. Around every corner is a new adventure, and every ride is a thrill.
Fast forward to adulthood. You wake up one day and realize it’s just a theme park. There are no new areas to discover, and the park is landlocked by other businesses, and, as such, will never create new corners to go around. The rides are all the same, but simply get a face lift now and then.
Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!
no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..
atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?
More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.
In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.
In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.
Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.
I don’t know why anyone would argue for an achievement based game. It’s like those parents that give everyone in a little league football conference a trophy so no one feels bad if they didn’t win. Achievement-heavy games are literally ruining online gaming.
The players in GW2 who would rather do achievements than dungeons, pvp, etc. are the ones helping to make this game so watered-down and trite. Those are the ones the devs seem to be listening and catering to anyway. Please don’t advocate for something that literally sucks the life out of anything meaningful in a gaming experience.
Ruining it for who? The smaller percentage of people who like raiding? Maybe the raiding people are actually ruining it for the achievement hunters.
Why are there achievements everywhere? Because people obviously like them. If they didn’t, there wouldn’t be achievements everywhere.
I think maybe you’re confusing “ruining” online gaming, with ruining online gaming for you and people who play like you.
Because as far as I know, Farmville has a whole lot more players than WoW ever did.
no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..
atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?
More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.
In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.
In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.
Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.
I don’t know why anyone would argue for an achievement based game. It’s like those parents that give everyone in a little league football conference a trophy so no one feels bad if they didn’t win. Achievement-heavy games are literally ruining online gaming.
The players in GW2 who would rather do achievements than dungeons, pvp, etc. are the ones helping to make this game so watered-down and trite. Those are the ones the devs seem to be listening and catering to anyway. Please don’t advocate for something that literally sucks the life out of anything meaningful in a gaming experience.
Ruining it for who? The smaller percentage of people who like raiding? Maybe the raiding people are actually ruining it for the achievement hunters.
Why are there achievements everywhere? Because people obviously like them. If they didn’t, there wouldn’t be achievements everywhere.
I think maybe you’re confusing “ruining” online gaming, with ruining online gaming for you and people who play like you.
Because as far as I know, Farmville has a whole lot more players than WoW ever did.
So, naturally, games should change into a casual achievement themeparks because farmville is the game we all want to play
no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..
atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?
More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.
In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.
In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.
Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.
I don’t know why anyone would argue for an achievement based game. It’s like those parents that give everyone in a little league football conference a trophy so no one feels bad if they didn’t win. Achievement-heavy games are literally ruining online gaming.
The players in GW2 who would rather do achievements than dungeons, pvp, etc. are the ones helping to make this game so watered-down and trite. Those are the ones the devs seem to be listening and catering to anyway. Please don’t advocate for something that literally sucks the life out of anything meaningful in a gaming experience.
Ruining it for who? The smaller percentage of people who like raiding? Maybe the raiding people are actually ruining it for the achievement hunters.
Why are there achievements everywhere? Because people obviously like them. If they didn’t, there wouldn’t be achievements everywhere.
I think maybe you’re confusing “ruining” online gaming, with ruining online gaming for you and people who play like you.
Because as far as I know, Farmville has a whole lot more players than WoW ever did.
So, naturally, games should change into a casual achievement themeparks because farmville is the game we all want to play
No, gaming WILL change in the direction of people who play games. In what kind if world is this wrong?
5 guys really like the food in my restaurant. They’re really loyal. They eat their several times a week…but if I can change the menu, I could get hundreds of people who like my restaurant. What kind of idiot would not change the menu.
This is basic business common sense. I’m sure if everyone complaining ran a company, they’d make a tiny game, to appeal to a tiny audience, and think that’s fine. I just hope they also are ready for a tiny budget and a tiny return on their investment.
It doesn’t matter if people like Farmville or people like games with hard core raids….neither group is right. It’s a game and it’s for enjoyment.
Why does liking something you perceive as better make it actually better?
It feels like GW2 is in a race, and 10 meters from the finish line it sat down and started building sand castles. Some of the sand castles are pretty impressive, but the finish line is right there and the other racers are catching up. You can build more sand castles later.
Dat analogy… I am going to steal it.
Honestly PvE has completely run dry for me. I totally get what you mean by “uh, I guess we could run a dungeon,” and I haven’t even run all of them; it’s just sterile right now – all I know is there will be another Subject Alpha or Slick and Spark that we will ultimately defeat not with skill but some silly mechanic (most likely stacking on the boss or in a corner) that we googled.
At least in WvW (rather at the very least Aurora Glade WvW) skill becomes important, builds other than full zerker are viable (my biggest gold sink is theory crafting my build which is completely pointless in PvE).
The only time I spend in PvE these days is the Queensdale champion farm if/while I am queued for WvW; not because it’s particularly entertaining, but because I don’t want to be kicked from the WvW queue for being AFK. It’s crazy that the only part of the game that is now fun is one that very few employees at ANet care about (don’t get me wrong, I am a massive fan of Devon and all his efforts).
It’s a big pity, because ANet hit us with this massive amount of innovation and fun when they launched the game – and then as you said, they started building sand castles (most likely because we lashed back at them every time they released something). The living story is cool and marginally innovative (and to be honest the only episodic release that has ever worked to any degree); but it’s a far cry from what they did with eliminating backtracking, fixing questing, dynamic events and freeing us from the trinity.
Basically, I feel you OP. Maybe what comes out of this CDI will save us all from having to make do with other substandard MMOs – because GW2 at launch taught me to expect more.
Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working.
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working.
This thread makes me weep for the amount of empty defense on something that has so far been indefensible in this game.
There has been hardly any sense of community outside of a good guild since launch, and it’s only been magnified over time.
The game is effectively sterile as another poster put it.
I can’t comment too much on the OP, as I’m still pretty new to the game, so everything is new to me still (though I do have my own little list of gripes developing as I go lol).
I just wanted to hop in to disagree with this post in particular. I’ve found the community thus far in GW2 to be one of the best I’ve seen in a long time. Now, you could take that as a cynical compliment, considering most communities I’ve experienced have been awful. Terrible.
But I mean it sincerly; this game has an awesome community for the most part.
For one, we can start right in these forums. I’ve read this one thread and up to your post, there was only one response that I would consider rude or trollish or, at the very least, non-constructive. Every other one has been polite, reasoned and engaged with the discussion. Try posting a thread like the OP did on some other games’ forums, and you’ll get an entirely different experience. Interestingly, the fans of this game over on a certain popular mmorpg news/community site can be rabidly defensive… so maybe it’s more the place than the game in this case.
Anyway, moving on…
In my short time playing (less than 2 weeks so far), I’ve had the following experiences (among others):
- After stumbling into my first world event (Shadow Behemoth), I was curious about how it worked, when would it be up again, etc.
I got answers to my questions, and no one ripped me a new one or tried to humiliate me (in /say or /map) for being a “noob” – there’s that. But more than that, I had two different people both voluntarily help me. One invited me to a party and then proceeded to explain some things, and show me some key points in that particular area (hidden jump puzzles, etc).
At the same time, another person was whispering me, asking if I knew how the “train” worked and if I knew where to go. I’d said I was kinda familiar with it, having been “right place at the right time” for a couple fights (boar and spider). They proceeded to share the entire train route with me, and even advised to avoid the Bandit for now, as it’s a bit of a pain getting to him early on.
More recently, a couple days ago, another player saw me out doing stuff and asked if I needed help with anything. I’d said I was exploring the zone and just uncovering the map. They decided to come along and help out, assisting me in reaching some spots that I certainly would have had difficulty finding (although that wouldn’t have bothered me – I like the challenge), and also provided some good feedback and info about the game, etc.
I have all 3 of those people’s names written down and added to my friends list, so I can make sure to reciprocate (somehow lol) if I get the chance, and to at least /salute and say hello should I bump into them again.
In doing larger events, I’ve had no fewer than 4 people come up to raise me when I went down, even while all hell was breaking loose all around them and they certainly could have been more focused on themselves. In any other MMO I’ve played, I’d have laid there dead for the duration of the fight and, likely, after it was over – everyone would have just rushed off to the next thing and left me there.
In my first dungeon run (Ascalon Catacombs), the group was very patient and there was not a single peep of complaint out of anyone when things got messy or people died. There were a couple funny remarks about it, but at no one else’s expense. I can’t immediately think of any other MMO where a player wouldn’t have been ripped to shreds and likely vote-kicked for even the slightest perceived misstep.
I see people asking questions in /map chat, and I’ve seen two results – one far more than the other. Either they get a couple replies that are actually helpful, without any hint of frustration or insult, or – at worst – they get no answer. Very, very few times have I seen a question go unanswered – and even then, the reply may have come in the form of a pm, rather than in /map.
And that’s just a handful of experiences I’ve had or witnessed myself, in the short time I’ve been playing GW2. So, while I can’t speak much to what’s being discussed in this game (though I can understand what much of it is talking about, as I’ve gotten that same “cold and soulless” feeling from other MMOs), I can definitely say that I have not seen a problem with the community in this game, yet.
Not to say it won’t happen ever… but it will certainly be the off situation, and not the norm.
(edited by wolfsong.1857)
I dont feel the analogy is accurate. The beer wasnt watered down, is exactly as it was before same brands and all. Every couple of weeks they get new brands too some of the brands they keep some they stop providing after serving them for 2 weeks. During the past year they’ve been also gradually bring in spirits people want the spirits but they’re way overpriced and a lot of people arent willing to work all the overtime required to afford the spirits.
Thing is if you’re in it for the beer you dont need to worry about the spirits but I dont know maybe because in other bars spirits are all the rage and they will not allow you to sample some of the beer without taking some spirits first or because people arent able to enjoy their beer without having their spirits as well. What ever the reason they stop seeing the delicious beer, the beautiful weathered hardwood, the floor etc… all they see are the spirits and how much work they have to do in order to enjoy them. Other patrons who still enjoy the beer and bar environment will naturally point out to them that same old bar they used to love is still there just like it was before. The spirits arent there for us beer drinkers they’re meant for people who like that stuff but alas their opinion is dismissed because unfortunately those old clients cannot see any of that anymore, they can only see the spirits and they dont like what they see.
Except that in any pub the hardwood floors, etc. lose their luster over time. Things get old, and are no longer attractive once you’ve seen them hundreds of times, especially those people who spend all of their free time in the pub. If the owner does not make an effort to refurbish the trappings in the pub, of course it will get less attractive. In the pub in question, the emphasis seems to be mostly on the “spirit of the fortnight.” and very little seems to be done to keep the basic pub “fresh and new.”
All analogies break down sooner or later. Online games don’t deteriorate the way a real building does. However, let’s step aside from the analogy for a moment. Virtual entertainment does lose its allure over time if the user is being asked to do the same thing over and over, and if the only brain stimulation the game ever provided was seeing “something new and different.”
Of course everything becomes old eventually no doubt about that but its not like Arenanet arent doing anything about that! an unprecedented 2 week release schedule, holiday events, new mobs, new jumping puzzles, and all the other things they changed in the past year isnt exactly leaving the game in the same state it launched.
Read all these posts and the one thing that kept coming to mind….its not the game that is the problem. Its your problem.
Its just a game. Play it for fun…and when it becomes no longer fun. Go do something else. Expecting anything to amuse you forever is just silly.
PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
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