Guild Wars 2

Oh, i’m not angry/upset with you Marnor. You’re right in that some of the posts in here have been on the fairly angry side of things. I even had one i made somewhere back in the 30-35 page range get deleted because of how angry that post was.

The problem here is that While we see other issues come up and get dealt with almost immediately, while we see other problems generate 10 plus threads about the same thing only to be fixed, the rest of us sit here in this thread and play by Anet’s rules about keeping it to one thread and offering pages of suggestions, only to be both seemingly ignored and fed platitudes instead of getting a straight forward and honest communication about this in literal months.

Unfortunately the latest spate of changes in the game might drive the one person I played with regularly to leave the game, and once that happens I’m not sure I’ll have it in me to care about it all anymore. :/

Hyper Cutter.9376:

It’s way less obnoxious than elite skills were in GW1, the traits all come from zones about the level each trait tier is unlocked, and a lot of the requirements are things you should be doing anyway (like map completion).

Actually it’s not. My main character has 100% map completion, has completed all dungeons in story mode, is level 27 in WvWvW, has been level capped for 5 months, and still has 19 traits that remain locked. In GW1 I had all elites unlocked within weeks of level capping. In GW1 I could spawn an instance at will and solo pretty much any boss I wanted to capture from. Heck, I didn’t even have to kill the boss; I just had to interrupt it mid-cast. In GW2, many of the bosses are preceded by group event chains that may or may not succeed. Even when they do succeed, there’s a chance they’ll still fail on that final boss. Plus, unlocking an elite in GW1 unlocked it for the entire account. In GW2 every trait unlock is per character. How is any of that “way less obnoxious?”

For first time players, this new trait system might work because it forces them to complete zones and explore. Basically unlocking the game and map in order to progress.

But for those of us who have already completed the map on one character and already made multiple lv80 characters, being forced into doing it all over again is rediculous!

If I want to make an alternate character, I do not want to waste my time running around repeating all the things I have already done multiple times before! I want to use the “tomes of knowledge” I’ve stacked up in my bank, make my character 80 and play it in WvW, PvE etc.

As a suggestion, for those players that have already reached lv80 on one character and have completed the world exploration ‘challenge’, then ANY alternate characters made on that account should have the old trait system, whereby traits are automatically unlocked/earned through level up.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

It’s way less obnoxious than elite skills were in GW1, the traits all come from zones about the level each trait tier is unlocked, and a lot of the requirements are things you should be doing anyway (like map completion).

That is blatantly false. Unless by “about the level each trait tier is unlocked” you mean “within 20 levels of when each trait tier is unlocked.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

Eric.6109:

btw – anet deleted my post on their FB page, so I’m guessing this is starting to have some impact. otherwise, why censor it?
keep going folks, we finally have some hope.
do it for GW2. do it for the Tamini. DO IT FOR QUAGGAN!

Yup. They deleted mine too. Quite quickly. Censorship is a wondrous thing, isn’kitten

Edit: LOL! They “kittened” the words “isn’t” followed by “it”! LOL! Ah man.

Rentapest.6503:

For first time players, this new trait system might work because it forces them to complete zones and explore. Basically unlocking the game and map in order to progress.

It could work for new players, if the tasks required to unlock the traits were level appropriate and agnostic with respect to story path. As it is, it doesn’t force completion so much as yank the player away from their level progression. Since traits have far less effect at the lower levels than level, they go largely ignored.

Guhracie.3419:

This 70-page thread should embarrass every last anet employee, every single time they see it.

You could copy-paste the entire thread to an email and send it to them?
Lemme stop giving bad ideas. =P

I want to add something new. I want to add something constructive. But, it’s all be said. If we need a short-short list, I’ll put it here, again:

1. Don’t make us wait. Make trait challenges available like skill point challenges. Don’t hide them behind 100% maps or tee-hee-can-you-find-jumping-“puzzle” tasks.
2. Give us choice and agency. Specific unlocks behind specific, often level-gated tasks damages the intent of the system.
3. Don’t back-weight the progression. The nonsense of starting at 30 and waiting until 80 for grandmaster traits doesn’t help.

Honestly, just the first two would be kittening grand.

Rauderi.8706:

You could copy-paste the entire thread to an email and send it to them?
Lemme stop giving bad ideas. =P

I want to add something new. I want to add something constructive. But, it’s all be said. If we need a short-short list, I’ll put it here, again:

1. Don’t make us wait. Make trait challenges available like skill point challenges. Don’t hide them behind 100% maps or tee-hee-can-you-find-jumping-“puzzle” tasks.
2. Give us choice and agency. Specific unlocks behind specific, often level-gated tasks damages the intent of the system.
3. Don’t back-weight the progression. The nonsense of starting at 30 and waiting until 80 for grandmaster traits doesn’t help.

Honestly, just the first two would be kittening grand.

4. Make trait unlocks account-wide. If I’ve unlocked my entire domination line on my mesmer then my baby hunter should have his entire marksmanship line unlocked too. Granted, he won’t be able to spec into most of it until he’s acquired the trait points, but at least by level 80 he should have access to everything.

Bernie.8674:

4. Make trait unlocks account-wide. If I’ve unlocked my entire domination line on my mesmer then my baby hunter should have his entire marksmanship line unlocked too. Granted, he won’t be able to spec into most of it until he’s acquired the trait points, but at least by level 80 he should have access to everything.

That would be a pleasant bonus, and a lot of people have asked for it, but it’s not the game-breaker that lots of others have quit (buying character slots, the game itself) over.

Perhaps someone more industrious than I can, again, recompile the ideas into a simple document. Or spur a CDI. Something. This needs to be addressed, loudly and publicly. (As if 70 pages wasn’t enough.)

… and make it possible to trade in skill points for Scrolls of Knowledge.

I really have no clue how many skill points I have over my account. The only thing I can do with them is make part of Ascended gear. If I remember correctly, which I may not, I think they said that skill points were going to become a form of currency.

Give us an NPC who will exchange a Scroll of Knowledge for “x” numbers of skill points. It wouldn’t have to even be 1:1. Make them 1:2, 1:3, or even 1:4.

As far as unlocks, other than grandmaster traits, they should be soloable and triggerable. And, even more importantly, the unlocks should be in a level appropriate area.

Unlocks should also be account wide.

I really think that the idea of unlocking traits is a good one. However, the way GW2 does it is deplorable.

Traits matter to some classes as you are leveling. I have felt this pain firsthand with a Mesmer (I want to do JPs with my wife on her mesmer).

I gave this system the benefit of the doubt and tried it out via leveling a Guardian with full traits..

I hated most of the process and vowed to not do it again.

However, as I said, I decided to roll a Mesmer. Playing this toon with no traits was much more painful than a Guardian. It was painful enough that I bought my trait tree.

People who say that we don’t “need” traits at lower levels are correct… technically. However, if you want to level alone, or have to level alone, you are going to feel the pain. For classes like this, while its true that you may not need traits during leveling, without them you are going to have a much more difficult and less enjoyable time.

Gregori.5807:

Traits matter to some classes as you are leveling. I have felt this pain firsthand with a Mesmer (I want to do JPs with my wife on her mesmer).

I gave this system the benefit of the doubt and tried it out via leveling a Guardian with full traits..

I hated most of the process and vowed to not do it again.

However, as I said, I decided to roll a Mesmer. Playing this toon with no traits was much more painful than a Guardian. It was painful enough that I bought my trait tree.

People who say that we don’t “need” traits at lower levels are correct… technically. However, if you want to level alone, or have to level alone, you are going to feel the pain. For classes like this, while its true that you may not need traits during leveling, without them you are going to have a much more difficult and less enjoyable time.

Even with a buddy, the experience was painful. Most of the trait unlocks were above our level, and it made our play time very disjointed.

I need to bow out of this thread for a little while. It honestly depresses me too much at this point and I already have a hard enough time around the holidays as it is to also have a game add to that in any way.

Keep up the good fight for those that still have it in you and please keep making them see this thread. Or hey, even more like it at this point since obviously playing nice and keeping it all in one thread hasn’t seemed to do us much good. i don’t know…maybe someone will wake up at Anet. i just don’t think they will.

i’m going to add another one for my previous list of things I disliked on the current system.

My Ele is at lv60, I went to Harathi for the Kol Skullsmasher event that you need to unlock one of the traits.

Getting there, I discover that some group already killed Kol, but left the NPC to die after it. As a result I now have to go complete this event chain, and then WAIT for it to start again.

Even worst, I’m too much of a bad player to actually kill stuff with my Ele, so I find myself diying for a pack of Oozes because I can’t handle so many mobs at once.

So thanks Anet, for making my experience that much worse.

After the new daily update, I’ve lost even more hope for this problem to be resolved in anything approaching a reasonable manner. The concept of “level appropriate and open-ended” seems to have completely evaporated.

I know it was strongly hinted that the trait system will be receiving a significant overhaul yet again, so it will take a while for it to roll out, but seriously, does it need to take a year? This should be first priority for “features.”

But wait! The next RNG item from Black Lion Chests will be…

“Trait scroll. Doubleclick to unlock a random Trait”.

A revert on the trait system would make a lovely wintersday present, ANet. If the gold sink is still needed, I’d gladly take increased waypoint costs or repair fees or whatnot over this. The ‘new’ system discourages build experimentation, which is very unhealthy for the game.

Sins.4782:

A revert on the trait system would make a lovely wintersday present, ANet. If the gold sink is still needed, I’d gladly take increased waypoint costs or repair fees or whatnot over this. The ‘new’ system discourages build experimentation, which is very unhealthy for the game.

It seems like my waypoint costs may’ve increased slightly here recently. I remember porting from one zone to another for about 4s, and while it was pretty far apart, it was nowhere near completely opposite ends of the map. I don’t recall seeing costs much above 4s for very many trips, but this is just speculation on my part.

Guzzi, I almost feel like even that would alleviate some of the issues with the trait system, if it would let me choose a specific trait to unlock, as opposed to being a random unlock.

When I look at this thread and for how long this is going on for, I thank god that ArenaNet only develops games and not medical equipment for hospitals.

Sleepwalker.1398:

When I look at this thread and for how long this is going on for, I thank god that ArenaNet only develops games and not medical equipment for hospitals.

Eh. I’m pretty vocally disgruntled, and even I have to say that this is some crazy level of hyperbole. I get where you’re coming from with it, but they’d be subject to different standards in that industry, for exactly the reasons you’d think.

It’s just… not a good comparison. Lives are not at stake, and I can only assume that if they were, the good people at anet would do everything in their power to save them.

Progress on my new character (which I am actually sort of enjoying…)

Level 39 : Traits 0

I just hit 40 on one of my low-levels, and I have one trait unlocked. I was really happy to discover that I do have at least one character on my second account who was grandfathered in under the old system.

I’m sure something similar to this has been mentioned, maybe.. maybe not.. but here goes.

I think it’d be nice if they could implement a system like this.

[I] [II] [III] [IV] [V] [VI] [VII] [VIII] [IX] [X] [XI] [XII] [XII]
When you unlock I for Power, (or the first line) that unlocks it for your account. So you unlock trait line 1 skill [XI] on your mesmer and all other characters can also use this skill.

I think this might encourage people to do some of the events for traits since it opens up it for more than just one character, those that have been grandfathered in are happy since they have everything open, those that have paid for it might be a bit upset sinking a lot of gold/skill points into individual characters but it might be better than removing the new system or changing it

NOTE

This would still allow players to buy the traits and it unlocks them for the account also.

Level: 48 , Traits: Nil.

if it was only skill points then i would not mind, i have plenty of skill points but barely any gold at all.
make it 2 SP with gold and 5 SP without, lowers the grind by allot and also doesn’t force anyone on a huge grind.

The engineer I was leveling with a friend hit level 80. Sad to see we only have a handful of traits unlocked, even though we always check what traits we can unlock when we start completing a map.

I kept some exotic armor and weapons aside to equip her with, but truly it’s sad to see my brand new level 80 engi, with nothing close to a useful build to enjoy playing her to the fullest.

Still wishing for a redesign of this system. It can’t be working as intended.

drowze.3709:

… It can’t be working as intended.

You never know…companies do the darndest things.

Arietta The Broken.1875:

I’m sure something similar to this has been mentioned, maybe.. maybe not.. but here goes.

I think it’d be nice if they could implement a system like this.

[I] [II] [III] [IV] [V] [VI] [VII] [VIII] [IX] [X] [XI] [XII] [XII]
When you unlock I for Power, (or the first line) that unlocks it for your account. So you unlock trait line 1 skill [XI] on your mesmer and all other characters can also use this skill.

I think this might encourage people to do some of the events for traits since it opens up it for more than just one character, those that have been grandfathered in are happy since they have everything open, those that have paid for it might be a bit upset sinking a lot of gold/skill points into individual characters but it might be better than removing the new system or changing it

NOTE

This would still allow players to buy the traits and it unlocks them for the account also.

Yup its been mentioned

Sorry, I’ve given up. Nothing will be fixed. For the rest of you who keep on fighting, good luck.

16 Characters , complete ( old system )

2 new Lvl 80 Traits : N/A

Bring back the old system please

Signed…. playing with Alt’s is a pain the kitten now. No fun at all. Bring back the old system!

rozowykubek.9703:

Rauderi.8706:

Gregori.5807:

Traits matter to some classes as you are leveling. I have felt this pain firsthand with a Mesmer (I want to do JPs with my wife on her mesmer).

I gave this system the benefit of the doubt and tried it out via leveling a Guardian with full traits..

I hated most of the process and vowed to not do it again.

However, as I said, I decided to roll a Mesmer. Playing this toon with no traits was much more painful than a Guardian. It was painful enough that I bought my trait tree.

People who say that we don’t “need” traits at lower levels are correct… technically. However, if you want to level alone, or have to level alone, you are going to feel the pain. For classes like this, while its true that you may not need traits during leveling, without them you are going to have a much more difficult and less enjoyable time.

Even with a buddy, the experience was painful. Most of the trait unlocks were above our level, and it made our play time very disjointed.

It must be pain when someone took your toys away but I can not imagine possessing all traits by level, let’s say 30 0_o it would be game destroying IMO. Sorry but honestly I do not get what all fuss is about but I have feeling that you all want “easy” time. Now everything must be “casual friendly”, “easy”, “buy it now”, “have all now” to me it’s fun when there is challenge, and you have to think how to get something/there/ et cetera.
I wish old times come back, where every game was hard

You didn’t have all of your traits by level 30, just the first tier I believe.

I have a feeling you haven’t played this game very long. Come back here after your third or fourth alt and have spent about 100-200 gold and 600-800 skill points instead of the <15 gold and 0 skill points it used to cost and then explain to us how everyone here really just wants an easy button. Or better yet don’t do that just level them to 80 and then come back and tell us all about the builds for your characters – you know after you’ve done all your “experimenting” – ought to be worth a chuckle or two

rozowykubek.9703:

Rauderi.8706:

Gregori.5807:

Traits matter to some classes as you are leveling. I have felt this pain firsthand with a Mesmer (I want to do JPs with my wife on her mesmer).

I gave this system the benefit of the doubt and tried it out via leveling a Guardian with full traits..

I hated most of the process and vowed to not do it again.

However, as I said, I decided to roll a Mesmer. Playing this toon with no traits was much more painful than a Guardian. It was painful enough that I bought my trait tree.

People who say that we don’t “need” traits at lower levels are correct… technically. However, if you want to level alone, or have to level alone, you are going to feel the pain. For classes like this, while its true that you may not need traits during leveling, without them you are going to have a much more difficult and less enjoyable time.

Even with a buddy, the experience was painful. Most of the trait unlocks were above our level, and it made our play time very disjointed.

It must be pain when someone took your toys away but I can not imagine possessing all traits by level, let’s say 30 0_o it would be game destroying IMO. Sorry but honestly I do not get what all fuss is about but I have feeling that you all want “easy” time. Now everything must be “casual friendly”, “easy”, “buy it now”, “have all now” to me it’s fun when there is challenge, and you have to think how to get something/there/ et cetera.
I wish old times come back, where every game was hard

edit:
there is solution, make suggestion to create item in store “one click to 80”

Not surprising, but you’re incorrect. On a lot of things. Including basic principles of game design. I know this topic is a lot of tl’dr, so you wouldn’t know, being new to the game, forums, and game design, but what many players are upset about is the deviation from the old system and the absurd amount of work/timing it takes to earn traits that are vital to builds.

The new system also directly goes against ANet’s stated goal of promoting experimentation with trait builds. The pre-April characters have that flexibility, but any character after that has a limited number of traits. Those kind of limitations are a slow death to an MMO.

Personally, I’ve been campaigning for more direct challenges, similar to skill points, so that players who want to take on those challenges for their traits can do so on their schedule. It’d be fun to have trait-dungeons that open up chunks of traits (Power I-VI, etc) that can scale for 1-5 people, so it’s not about camping a world boss and letting the zerg do the work.

I recently got a new character to 36 and I’m now eligible to select a trait. Since I am leveling the character primarily to test the trait acquisition system, I decided not to buy the trait I want. All of the Adept traits I’d be interested in, across all lines, are locked behind content that is too high-level. Do a Mini-Dungeon (in an L55 area) in Sparkfly Fen? Complete exploration of Blazeridge Steppes (40-50)? Defeat the L52 Champion Ooze in Bloodtide Coast? Kill the L60 Krait Witch in Timberline Falls? While I could just buy a trait, that should not be the preferred option. So, I am exercising a choice that would never have occurred to me under the old trait system — I’m leaving the darned slot empty.

Worst trait (or similar) acquisition system I’ve seen in a game, ever.

rozowykubek.9703:

edit:
there is solution, make suggestion to create item in store “one click to 80”

This suggestion, especially since you say it would be a “solution” to the trait thing, shows that you don’t know what you are talking about.

Assuming that this existed, then you would be a level 80 with almost no skill points after you bought your necessary utilities. Even if you power level in EotM, you get the normal skill points from leveling along with Scrolls of Knowledge from champ bags that drop at an approximately 1:7 rate.

That will not even buy you a basic build.. not even close.

(Edit Dec. 31st because the original did not make sense.)

exp.3178:

I have 7 level 80 older toons, i made recently a new elementalist, and leveled it to 80 .
to bring it to 80 i did all towns , starter maps and the maps where the PS led me. after level 70 I just did mapexplore and worldbosses.
I think I played as it should, and ending up with only 2 or 3 unlocked traits is stuppid.
A’net please bring back the old trait system or do a better overhaul.

Played as you should doesn’t mean anything. The point of the “new” trait system is to get you to go beyond all that. To go off and try to accomplish some extra stuff that maybe you wouldn’t have bothered before.

I think some of the traits are problematically located. Like a tier 1 trait in a level 55-65 level zone. I shouldn’t have to get all the way to level 50 or 55 before I can even hope to access a trait that might be integral to my early build. But it’s still a good system, because I might not have sought out the event, or location otherwise. So it’s doing its job and inspiring exploration.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I recently got a new character to 36 and I’m now eligible to select a trait. Since I am leveling the character primarily to test the trait acquisition system, I decided not to buy the trait I want. All of the Adept traits I’d be interested in, across all lines, are locked behind content that is too high-level. Do a Mini-Dungeon (in an L55 area) in Sparkfly Fen? Complete exploration of Blazeridge Steppes (40-50)? Defeat the L52 Champion Ooze in Bloodtide Coast? Kill the L60 Krait Witch in Timberline Falls? While I could just buy a trait, that should not be the preferred option. So, I am exercising a choice that would never have occurred to me under the old trait system — I’m leaving the darned slot empty.

Worst trait (or similar) acquisition system I’ve seen in a game, ever.

This is the main problem I see as well. They’re gating traits behind cap level content, instead of primarily low level to mid level content. Level cap in this context is 60s because after that you’re moving into Tier 2 traits. Adept traits should be 30-45 to pick up, not 45-60. I’m ok clearing Gendarran Fields to get a trait I want. Not doing content in Sparkfly Fens for first Tier traits.

Kal Spiro.9745:

exp.3178:

I have 7 level 80 older toons, i made recently a new elementalist, and leveled it to 80 .
to bring it to 80 i did all towns , starter maps and the maps where the PS led me. after level 70 I just did mapexplore and worldbosses.
I think I played as it should, and ending up with only 2 or 3 unlocked traits is stuppid.
A’net please bring back the old trait system or do a better overhaul.

Played as you should doesn’t mean anything. The point of the “new” trait system is to get you to go beyond all that. To go off and try to accomplish some extra stuff that maybe you wouldn’t have bothered before.

I think some of the traits are problematically located. Like a tier 1 trait in a level 55-65 level zone. I shouldn’t have to get all the way to level 50 or 55 before I can even hope to access a trait that might be integral to my early build. But it’s still a good system, because I might not have sought out the event, or location otherwise. So it’s doing its job and inspiring exploration.

Really? Because it’s inspiring me not to play at all.

The issue there soon becomes that instead of inspiring exploration (always and admirable aim), it soon becomes a question of how much you can be bothered.

The issues with traits I have are as follows

1) So many traits are found in zones well above the level that tier is unlocked at.
2) Some of the requirements to unlock a trait can be excessive (zone completion)
3) Some traits are behind event chains that have a strong tendency to bug out.
4) Even the less taxing of the traits become a chore the second, third, or twentieth time you do it.

The basic idea behind the system is sound in my opinion. It needs some work in places, and costs need to be adjusted, particularly in the lower tiers so new players can ease into it better. Also there needs to be some consideration for altoholics. And of course some changing of the requirements so a fair few more are available at the appropriate level.

The idea behind it I do, for the most part, like. I do believe the execution is woeful though.

Wolfheart.1879:

The issue there soon becomes that instead of inspiring exploration (always and admirable aim), it soon becomes a question of how much you can be bothered.

The issues with traits I have are as follows

1) So many traits are found in zones well above the level that tier is unlocked at.
2) Some of the requirements to unlock a trait can be excessive (zone completion)
3) Some traits are behind event chains that have a strong tendency to bug out.
4) Even the less taxing of the traits become a chore the second, third, or twentieth time you do it.

The basic idea behind the system is sound in my opinion. It needs some work in places, and costs need to be adjusted, particularly in the lower tiers so new players can ease into it better. Also there needs to be some consideration for altoholics. And of course some changing of the requirements so a fair few more are available at the appropriate level.

The idea behind it I do, for the most part, like. I do believe the execution is woeful though.

Agreed on all counts.

I’ve yet to chime in on this topic that I do feel strongly about.

I will simply say, please revert the trait system. I really love this game and want to keep playing, but leveling alts hasn’t been fun since the system was added. Honestly, it’s so bad that had I not had any 80s prior to the update I may have quit already. This is because of all 4 of Wolfheart’s bullet points above.

I have not finished leveling a single newly created alt to 80 since the update all those months ago. I have 6 80s prior to the update.

Kal Spiro.9745:

But it’s still a good system, because I might not have sought out the event, or location otherwise. So it’s doing its job and inspiring exploration.

How about inspiring exploration by actually having good content worth exploring to find? Using the trait unlocks to artificially push players shows lack of confidence. I find that especially jarring since Anet is supposed to be the, “we do it differently because we know it’s better this way,” MMO studio.

The next step in the path of following what the other MMO devs are doing is to remove most of the choice from traits entirely: pick two primary lines and one secondary line, all your points go into those three automatically as you level. Maybe allow picking one primary and two secondaries for diversity!

Eitri.2608:

Kal Spiro.9745:

But it’s still a good system, because I might not have sought out the event, or location otherwise. So it’s doing its job and inspiring exploration.

How about inspiring exploration by actually having good content worth exploring to find? Using the trait unlocks to artificially push players shows lack of confidence. I find that especially jarring since Anet is supposed to be the, “we do it differently because we know it’s better this way,” MMO studio.

The next step in the path of following what the other MMO devs are doing is to remove most of the choice from traits entirely: pick two primary lines and one secondary line, all your points go into those three automatically as you level. Maybe allow picking one primary and two secondaries for diversity!

Yeah, that’s not an argument that’s worth a kitten because good is an objectively undefinable term. What is good to me, may not be good to you, or at least not good enough. I love most of GW2s content, as is. I enjoy doing it, all over the place. This trait system just gives me directionality for each new character.

As for just doing the same old tree shtick that so many other MMOs do. No thank you. You may think that’s good. I do not. Again, not objectively definable.

The system has flaws, very glaring and obvious flaws. But the objective behind the system is sound. They just need to make the acquisition method more level appropriate, so that any trait of a given tier can be easily acquired when that tier becomes available.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Yeah, that’s not an argument that’s worth a kitten because good is an objectively undefinable term. What is good to me, may not be good to you, or at least not good enough. I love most of GW2s content, as is. I enjoy doing it, all over the place. This trait system just gives me directionality for each new character.

The subjectivity of content enjoyment is exactly why tying trait unlocks to all types of content was a bad idea. Each player likes and dislikes different styles of things to different degrees and very few are like you and like everything.

Old system: I can take a character from 1-80 exclusively in WvW, the progression feels natural as I start out pretty weak and gradually get stronger as I level and fill out my chosen build. As I’m doing so I learn more about the class I’m playing and my playstyle so I may tweak my build along the way.

That just can’t happen if I have to go wait for some event to spawn. Not to mention putting trait selection 20 levels behind where it used to be.

Leveling alts used to be quite enjoyable because 95% of the time spent in game felt productive. Everything that would have felt like a grind in other games had an appropriate reward. Even jumping puzzles, which I hate, have a good chest at the end. The addition of a trait grind is totally out of place, especially when it used to be something you got simply for leveling.

If they had tons of traits per profession, like 100 or something, then the system would have worked. You could start with enough to make a few builds, maybe not very interesting ones, and then you could build on that by trait hunting. That way it would have been a grind to improve your character, not a complete lockout of the mechanic that allows players to customize their characters’ abilities.

Kal Spiro.9745:

As for just doing the same old tree shtick that so many other MMOs do. No thank you. You may think that’s good. I do not. Again, not objectively definable.

Oh I don’t like it either, it’s just the direction that other MMOs seem to be going, and GW2 seems to be following instead of leading at this point.

So any official word yet (after 3452 replies) about if they are adjusting or not adjusting this silly trait thing. I’ve tried playing a new alt and it’s painful to have go and learn all these traits AGAIN!.

If there was even the slightest hint that they would make trait unlocks a one time thing across the account, I’d hold off leveing my new Charr Ele and wait. Until then, I can’t bring myself to do it.

I used to very much enjoy leveling some things up via crafting. That’s pointless now. I enjoyed leveling in EotM and WvW. Pretty much pointless there too.

The way traits are now looks like great game design for a game that was made that way from the start. Moving the goalposts so radically with how restore now have to be unlocked by way of basically going everywhere and doing everything ON EVERY COTTON PICKIN NEW CHARACTER before you can start on doing whatever else you actually wanted to be doing.

It’s great game design for someone that never played e game as it was for most of its lifespan to date – just more busywork and brainless tedium common to every mmo.

I have, sadly, been here since launch, and I liked being able to level by all the means available to me and not be essentially kitten to have so done. I’m guessing that we old fogeys have become disposable, cause, sure, my experience is anecdotal, but I don’t know anybody that likes the new trait unlocking scheme. Nobody. I only know a few hundred people that I speak with in guilds regularly, but I’d any of them like this nonsense, they don’t say so.

Why is that? Sure, my experience isn’t scientifically representative of anything, but why is it that I have never heard even one speck of praise even hinted at about this particular? It makes it very easy to believe that it’s probably widely loathed, but hey, I don’t know that for sure.

What Io know is that now, you level by map completion or you might as will go play in rush hour traffic. You can technically level by other means but, lol, you’ll have zero to maybe about six traits unlocked.

They’ve handed us a giant list of chores made out of things that never used to be chores. Did they expect this to thrill us? I mean, what did they imagine would be thought of that?

Did they envision applause? Praise for making a list if chores out of something that never used to be tedious?

The point squash made leveling feel very dull, for my experience, but not broken. Now, even accessing traits has turned into an epic grind. For every… Single… New… Character.

I’d thought I might make an engineer eventually. Now? Nope! Poof, there went all the money is have spent on town clothes and other gem store goodies for him.

Poof, there went my interest in buying anything for my existing characters purely out of feeling alienated in general by these sweeping changes in pet sure nobody was asking for.

Does that hurt Anet? Probably not. But it’s still true.

They should get out if the habit of making epic chores out of things that never used to be chores. If I have to explain why, there is no possibility that the explanation would be understood.

rozowykubek.9703:

Rauderi.8706:

Gregori.5807:

Traits matter to some classes as you are leveling. I have felt this pain firsthand with a Mesmer (I want to do JPs with my wife on her mesmer).

I gave this system the benefit of the doubt and tried it out via leveling a Guardian with full traits..

I hated most of the process and vowed to not do it again.

However, as I said, I decided to roll a Mesmer. Playing this toon with no traits was much more painful than a Guardian. It was painful enough that I bought my trait tree.

People who say that we don’t “need” traits at lower levels are correct… technically. However, if you want to level alone, or have to level alone, you are going to feel the pain. For classes like this, while its true that you may not need traits during leveling, without them you are going to have a much more difficult and less enjoyable time.

Even with a buddy, the experience was painful. Most of the trait unlocks were above our level, and it made our play time very disjointed.

It must be pain when someone took your toys away but I can not imagine possessing all traits by level, let’s say 30 0_o it would be game destroying IMO. Sorry but honestly I do not get what all fuss is about but I have feeling that you all want “easy” time. Now everything must be “casual friendly”, “easy”, “buy it now”, “have all now” to me it’s fun when there is challenge, and you have to think how to get something/there/ et cetera.
I wish old times come back, where every game was hard

edit:
there is solution, make suggestion to create item in store “one click to 80”

You must be new to the game, meaning after the trait changes. Previously the second you gained access to a different tier of a traitline (Adept, Master, Grandmaster), the traits in that traitline immediately became available. Here’s how it was before.

1. Hit level 11, buy an Adept trait book from the trainer and use it. Grats, you have the traitlines unlocked.
2. Every level (or 5), you put a point into a traitline. By level 15, you unlocked your first minor trait, at 20 you unlock your first adept trait. Pick any adept trait (I-VI) and equip it.
3. Repeat until level 40 (if I remember clearly) with multiple traitlines and buy the Master trait book from the trainer. Grats, you can now have an adept and a master trait in any traitline (up to a total of 3 traits equippable), get one of them to that point and equip one of the new traits (VII-X).
4. Repeat until level 60 with multiple traitlines and buy the Grandmaster trait book from the trainer. Grats, all traits are now available to you. Start planning your build and experimenting, because you can have 5 traits equipped now.
5. Reach level 80, capping out and having access to 7 different traits to be equipped at once.

That’s how it used to work. Sure you had the traits the second you could use them, but the second you got them you started experimenting with them, understanding how each one could work, planning ahead builds for various situations. The traits were a reward for leveling and you could experiment with them easily, regardless of whether you just crafted your way up, PVE’d, or played WvW religiously for the levels.

Now not so much, since you have to unlock them all one by one. This current system feels like we’re being punished for some reason, and squashes experimentation because we CAN’T experiment without going through an extra grind just to get the traits unlocked.

I’m forever against this new trait model. I’ve said so many times on this forum and in game.
I have a lot of characters, probably more than most. Half of which were created before the update. I quit for quite some time and came back to the new trait system – I didn’t realize it had even been implemented, that is how long I had been gone.

So I started a new character as you do, and I was just appalled at how slow the levelling/progression of a character was.
I went to buy the trait book as I had done before and BAM not there. That initial 12.5g for traits had been replaced with Skill point/Gold.. Whut? I didn’t realize new players had access to that amount of gold so quickly!?

When I’m in Fractals I like to change my traits a lot. Maybe the team sucks for condition removal so I’ll quickly trait into that. Maybe we need more reflect, maybe boon removal.. or more might.. or I need to change to my ele and put some heals down.. or change to warrior and put banners down.. but oh wait these characters are new and don’t have all these traits because it’s too expensive.. I guess I wont do that.

I guess this was implemented as a gold sink/skill point sink, the issue is that it only does this for new players.
Veteran players with heaps of gold / skill points already have all of their traits unlocked. So it keeps the poor, poorer until they have their traits or alternatively it keeps the from playing a build other than what is suggested on Forums/(PvXwiki gw2 version???)
People complain about meta builds. It’s not too hard to see why people go to websites rather than make their own builds:

Why would I make my own build and experiment when this one someone else made works and I only have to buy these 10(or so) traits!

rozowykubek.9703:

Rauderi.8706:

Gregori.5807:

Traits matter to some classes as you are leveling. I have felt this pain firsthand with a Mesmer (I want to do JPs with my wife on her mesmer).

I gave this system the benefit of the doubt and tried it out via leveling a Guardian with full traits..

I hated most of the process and vowed to not do it again.

However, as I said, I decided to roll a Mesmer. Playing this toon with no traits was much more painful than a Guardian. It was painful enough that I bought my trait tree.

People who say that we don’t “need” traits at lower levels are correct… technically. However, if you want to level alone, or have to level alone, you are going to feel the pain. For classes like this, while its true that you may not need traits during leveling, without them you are going to have a much more difficult and less enjoyable time.

Even with a buddy, the experience was painful. Most of the trait unlocks were above our level, and it made our play time very disjointed.

It must be pain when someone took your toys away but I can not imagine possessing all traits by level, let’s say 30 0_o it would be game destroying IMO. Sorry but honestly I do not get what all fuss is about but I have feeling that you all want “easy” time. Now everything must be “casual friendly”, “easy”, “buy it now”, “have all now” to me it’s fun when there is challenge, and you have to think how to get something/there/ et cetera.
I wish old times come back, where every game was hard

edit:
there is solution, make suggestion to create item in store “one click to 80”

People are asking for the game to go back to how it was at launch and how it was until the patch last April that ruined it. Its obvious you have no idea w t f you are talking about so please do not comment with out doing some research.

If they can’t or won’t go back to how it was then arenanet needs to put some effort into the new trait system as there is plenty that needs work. This thread has tons of ideas on what they could do to make it a better experience.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

rozowykubek.9703:

Rauderi.8706:

Gregori.5807:

Traits matter to some classes as you are leveling. I have felt this pain firsthand with a Mesmer (I want to do JPs with my wife on her mesmer).

I gave this system the benefit of the doubt and tried it out via leveling a Guardian with full traits..

I hated most of the process and vowed to not do it again.

However, as I said, I decided to roll a Mesmer. Playing this toon with no traits was much more painful than a Guardian. It was painful enough that I bought my trait tree.

People who say that we don’t “need” traits at lower levels are correct… technically. However, if you want to level alone, or have to level alone, you are going to feel the pain. For classes like this, while its true that you may not need traits during leveling, without them you are going to have a much more difficult and less enjoyable time.

Even with a buddy, the experience was painful. Most of the trait unlocks were above our level, and it made our play time very disjointed.

It must be pain when someone took your toys away but I can not imagine possessing all traits by level, let’s say 30 0_o it would be game destroying IMO. Sorry but honestly I do not get what all fuss is about but I have feeling that you all want “easy” time. Now everything must be “casual friendly”, “easy”, “buy it now”, “have all now” to me it’s fun when there is challenge, and you have to think how to get something/there/ et cetera.
I wish old times come back, where every game was hard

edit:
there is solution, make suggestion to create item in store “one click to 80”

People are asking for the game to go back to how it was at launch and how it was until the patch last April that ruined it. Its obvious you have no idea w t f you are talking about so please do not comment with out doing some research.

If they can’t or won’t go back to how it was then arenanet needs to put some effort into the new trait system as there is plenty that needs work. This thread has tons of ideas on what they could do to make it a better experience.

Ascended, Traits, rework of the TP that requires more work to list and poorly laid out, new UI, intrusive UI, pop up UI elements in the middle of your screen, NPE, New dailies.

The current Anet are incapable of developing anything resembling a better experience.