Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
Gem prices have doubled in price.
What i am trying to pass to you is that the gems dictate the amount of gold in the game, and since there was a pre-set amount of it ,it kick started the economy, now people,including myself have to recycle that gold over and over and over,some are even hoarding it in inactive accounts but that isnt the point.
The point is,that the market of the game is too much driven by gems,and as a follow up to that,so are rewards,meaning less rewarding stuff,more people buy gems to fill their need to buy something cool.
Hope i made it simpler to understand this time.
Except, the thing is, gold to gem prices keep going up. Which means more players are turning gold into gems than turning gems into gold.
Your problem doesn’t exist.
The things generating the gold are:
Dailies rewarding 2 gold when completed. That’s 2 gold added per PLAYER who completes the Daily. I’d imagine that’s a lot of players.
Dungeons can now be repeated over and over again without losing the gold reward earned per track since the rewards got moved to a repeatable achievement. That’s 5 gold per 8 paths run. That’s a lot of gold. From what I recall, speed runners in dungeons can do a path in about 5-10 minutes. That’s 40 minutes to 1 hour 20 minutes to generate 5 gold on top of the other rewards they get from dungeons themselves via the rewards from them.
That’s what’s increasing the average gold per player and generating inflation. And there’s no way the game can prevent inflation 100%. All ANet can do is try to control the rate of inflation.
But the gem/gold exchange isn’t part of the problem.
Quote : "Except, the thing is, gold to gem prices keep going up. Which means more players are turning gold into gems than turning gems into gold.
Your problem doesn’t exist."
What you are saying is the exact oposite, if more gems exist,that means gold goes up if more gold exist gems go up, so what you are saying is false in the first place.
If gold was more valuable and people made gold into gems then gems would be cheaper no? thats the point of a market, more gems=less gold meaning gold gets more value, not the opposite. Why is it so hard to understand you guys how value is made?
~snip~
Unfortunately, you misunderstand both how Gem → Gold and the economy overall works. I’ll see if I can link you the threads that John posted in…. from 3 years ago.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Quote : "Except, the thing is, gold to gem prices keep going up. Which means more players are turning gold into gems than turning gems into gold.
Your problem doesn’t exist."
What you are saying is the exact oposite, if more gems exist,that means gold goes up if more gold exist gems go up, so what you are saying is false in the first place.
If gold was more valuable and people made gold into gems then gems would be cheaper no? thats the point of a market, more gems=less gold meaning gold gets more value, not the opposite. Why is it so hard to understand you guys how value is made?
You don’t get how the gem<—→gold exchange works. ANet seeded the exchange with a fixed set of gems and gold. If more people exchange gems for gold than gold for gems, you get less gold per gem. This is because the pool of available gems is high and the pool of available gold is low. This situation is what gold hoarders love and they watch for this because it means more bang for their buck when turning gold into gems for future items on the gem store.
If more people exchange gold for gems, then you get fewer gems/gold. This is because the pool of gold is high and the pool of gems is low. X% of the gold put in gets deleted by the game to help counteract inflation. This X% acts as a gold sink. It takes gold out of the economy completely. This situation is the best for players who have more money to spend than time to play. They can then turn their gems into gold and buy legendaries or precursors.
The exchange rate goes in a cyclical fashion on average rising equal to the rate of the unavoidable inflation the game has. The balance favors gems to gold until such time as you get so little gold for each gem that you’re better off playing the game to generate gold. And the gold to gem rate gets so lucrative that gold hoards run to the gem store and exchange their gold for gems. Which then eventually makes turning gems into gold better again, because then then the rich players with little time to play run to buy gems to turn into gold to buy whatever they want to say they “win the game” in their mind. Or build up their guild. Or complete their current favorite character’s look or weapon set.
Has anyone figured out what the exchange rate formula is?
ie if you start converting gems into gold in large amounts, 250G is the largest, when will you see the exchange rate for gems > gold start falling?
Has anyone figured out what the exchange rate formula is?
ie if you start converting gems into gold in large amounts, 250G is the largest, when will you see the exchange rate for gems > gold start falling?
Depends on how many are going in the reverse direction. You would slow down the rate it was going up, though if there wasn’t an equivalent increase going in the reverse direction.
Guys you are missing the point,dont take into consideration the conversion, see it as a means to ruin the economy.
I mean its amazing to be able to buy gem store items for gold,am i right? But the point is that this creates a barrier that arena net doesnt understand that it can create issues with the game economy.
I like to talk with examples if you havent understood by now ^^,
Ex. I buy 500gold worth of gems and convert em into 500gold, now i have enough gold to play the market without any effort into the game in a matter of seconds,the richer u are = more power to you.
On the contrary a player that dedicates hours upon hours of grinding,yes i said grinding,gets much less in return,considerably much less.
Isnt that a direct result in the rewards as well? Meaning you get rewarded less and you are more frequently directed to the gem-gold conversion. :/
Am i the only one that sees it this way? :/
Guys you are missing the point,dont take into consideration the conversion, see it as a means to ruin the economy.
I mean its amazing to be able to buy gem store items for gold,am i right? But the point is that this creates a barrier that arena net doesnt understand that it can create issues with the game economy.
I like to talk with examples if you havent understood by now ^^,
Ex. I buy 500gold worth of gems and convert em into 500gold, now i have enough gold to play the market without any effort into the game in a matter of seconds,the richer u are = more power to you.
On the contrary a player that dedicates hours upon hours of grinding,yes i said grinding,gets much less in return,considerably much less.
Isnt that a direct result in the rewards as well? Meaning you get rewarded less and you are more frequently directed to the gem-gold conversion. :/
Am i the only one that sees it this way? :/
No, you only see it that way because you don’t understand how the in-game economy works in conjunction with the Gem Exchange.
Exchanging Gems for 500 Gold doesn’t affect the economy one bit. It’s existing currency that you’re buying with real money. If you decide to “play the market” with your 500 Gold, you’re then losing 15% of it due to the gold sink tax each time you sell something you bought. All potential profits come from existing gold in game, so in the grand scheme of things, you’re removing gold from the economy with each flip. You might be getting richer, but 15% of your transaction totals disappear from the world.
The player who grinds content is the one generating new wealth from coin drops. Be it bags of loot to dungeon clear chests. These are newly generated currency that didn’t exist before they got the loot/reward. This is one of the only ways new currency goes into the game economy. Daily rewards is the only other way currency is added.
TL:DR – You get less money personally by relying solely on loot drops. The game world loses money when you play the TP. All working as intended.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
gold to gems is a gold sink to begin with, and gems to gold is buying gold that people have put on the gem exchange, there’s no reason to ever drop it or modify it. it’s based on supply and demand.
I dont know what to think anymore, my mind is really confused….then…why play a game that doesnt reward you at all and only seeks to take from you?
Thanks for explaining to me the gem-gold, i was really in the wrong there, i know when to admit a mistake.
The game does reward you. I love the fact that I can spend time, and only time, to acquire Gold and purchase anything the game has to offer; either off of the Trading Post, or by converting Gold to Gems and from the Gem Store.
Because of this, and other reasons, I’m happy to buy Gems whenever I can to support the company and give back, just a little bit.
I dont know what to think anymore, my mind is really confused….then…why play a game that doesnt reward you at all and only seeks to take from you?
I play to meet girls in Divinity’s Reach RP circles. That, and the game is fun for PvE too.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Dungeons can now be repeated over and over again without losing the gold reward earned per track since the rewards got moved to a repeatable achievement. That’s 5 gold per 8 paths run. That’s a lot of gold. From what I recall, speed runners in dungeons can do a path in about 5-10 minutes. That’s 40 minutes to 1 hour 20 minutes to generate 5 gold on top of the other rewards they get from dungeons themselves via the rewards from them.
It actually seems to be 5gold per 7 paths now …
I was at 7/8 completed. Did an aetherpath run. Got the reward chest but dungeon frequenter is already at 1/8 done with aetherpath checked off.
It does require unique runs you can’t just repeat the same quick paths. There are some quick paths but I don’t think there are 8 of them. On the other hand story modes also count.
Even if you buy gems with RL money, you still have to “grind”, ie do some work in RL to earn the RL money.
Whether you are grinding in RL or grinding in the game , what does it matter?
Dungeons can now be repeated over and over again without losing the gold reward earned per track since the rewards got moved to a repeatable achievement. That’s 5 gold per 8 paths run. That’s a lot of gold. From what I recall, speed runners in dungeons can do a path in about 5-10 minutes. That’s 40 minutes to 1 hour 20 minutes to generate 5 gold on top of the other rewards they get from dungeons themselves via the rewards from them.
It actually seems to be 5gold per 7 paths now …
I was at 7/8 completed. Did an aetherpath run. Got the reward chest but dungeon frequenter is already at 1/8 done with aetherpath checked off.
It does require unique runs you can’t just repeat the same quick paths. There are some quick paths but I don’t think there are 8 of them. On the other hand story modes also count.
I believe only the paths for Arah were over 10 minutes for speed runners so there are enough shorter paths that speed runners only in it for the loot would be able to quickly get the required number of paths in under an hour.
I know most aren’t speed runners, but they are the only ones who do dungeons fast enough to cause a problem with inflation if the amount of gold is set too high.
Even if you buy gems with RL money, you still have to “grind”, ie do some work in RL to earn the RL money.
Whether you are grinding in RL or grinding in the game , what does it matter?
That’s silly. A lot of people have full time jobs that we work at to earn money we use for all sorts of purposes. Some of that money, after expenses, is disposable income.
If I want to buy gems I use that disposable income to do so, I don’t decide to buy gems then go out and work for a bit to get the €10 for those gems.
Ok guys looks like i was really in the wrong midset, it just felt to me that some things about the gem to gold and vice verca was really dodgy and guided.
I thank everyone that participated in this conversation and made some very good points and engaged in a creative and respectful manner.
Thanks for opening my eyes to how this whole system works.
Salonikios
Well, that cant be true, cause i can buy lets say 10000000gems with real money and throw them into the game economy and rended gems worthless,people would be able to buy them for copper, do you really think that this system is so deeply player driven?
Except your analysis fails because that can’t happen. It’s a zero-sum exchange (except the 15% fee). You simply cannot buy enough gems, no matter how much you spend.
It’s just like the NYSE or NASDAQ or the silver market (just ask the Hunt brothers). Except the commissions are higher in GW2, and there aren’t as many options.
Has anyone figured out what the exchange rate formula is?
ie if you start converting gems into gold in large amounts, 250G is the largest, when will you see the exchange rate for gems > gold start falling?
Actually, there is no formula, except for rounding differences. It’s an auction. As people generate more gold by adventuring, they are willing to offer more to get gems. So, the price of gems in gold goes up.
As people decide the price of gems is high enough, they spend real money to buy some, and then sell them for gold.
The only things ANet has in the way of forumulas is:
15% of every transaction is paid to the garbage can. Really: it’s is tossed out of the game forever.
The second formula is when you buy, with gold, a few gems versus a large number of gems. 100 gems will be slightly cheaper than buying 1 gem 100 times. I’m not sure what the target number is, but my guess is it’s in the millions. So, the rounding error doesn’t amount to much.
That’s it for formulas. The rest of the gem/gold exchange is a zero-sum set of transactions.
I mean its amazing to be able to buy gem store items for gold,am i right?
Actually, I would call it brilliant. It virtually eliminates trading-created inflation. The only inflation left is caused by harvesting and killing. And, they can regulate that with ease.
Without gold/gem conversions, the economy would experience huge mountains and valleys of inflation, all dependent strictly upon how much time each player plays, over time. During holiday festivals, the economy would go crazy, only to fall steeply once it was over.
Am i the only one that sees it this way? :/
No, there are lots of people who don’t understand the economics properly.
I dont know what to think anymore, my mind is really confused….then…why play a game that doesnt reward you at all and only seeks to take from you?
Thanks for explaining to me the gem-gold, i was really in the wrong there, i know when to admit a mistake.
Actually, you are not alone. People don’t recognize this even in real life.
For example, there’s a large segment of the population that says “short-selling” is ethically immoral.
Short-selling is when you sell a security that you don’t actually own, intending to buy it back when the price goes down. It’s basically a bet on a decline in the prices. But, it sounds just wrong.
In reality, it stabilizes the markets. Why? Because without short-selling, only those who actually owned a stock could sell it. Since they want the price to go up, they never would sell, even when they really should, financially. Short-sellers even the playing field.
Gold-to-gems performs a similar role in GW2, although to a lesser degree.
Even if you buy gems with RL money, you still have to “grind”, ie do some work in RL to earn the RL money.
Whether you are grinding in RL or grinding in the game , what does it matter?
This made my day! Thanks!!!
It’s absolutely true, but I never thought of it that way before.
Ok guys looks like i was really in the wrong midset, it just felt to me that some things about the gem to gold and vice verca was really dodgy and guided.
I thank everyone that participated in this conversation and made some very good points and engaged in a creative and respectful manner.
Thanks for opening my eyes to how this whole system works.Salonikios
Thanks for understanding! I’ve had many people who simply refused to think it through. You are to be commended!
Guys you are missing the point,dont take into consideration the conversion, see it as a means to ruin the economy.
I mean its amazing to be able to buy gem store items for gold,am i right? But the point is that this creates a barrier that arena net doesnt understand that it can create issues with the game economy.
I like to talk with examples if you havent understood by now ^^,
Ex. I buy 500gold worth of gems and convert em into 500gold, now i have enough gold to play the market without any effort into the game in a matter of seconds,the richer u are = more power to you.
On the contrary a player that dedicates hours upon hours of grinding,yes i said grinding,gets much less in return,considerably much less.
Isnt that a direct result in the rewards as well? Meaning you get rewarded less and you are more frequently directed to the gem-gold conversion. :/
Am i the only one that sees it this way? :/
No you are not, and the rich in game like to keep it that way, changing it would upset the rich.
Even if you buy gems with RL money, you still have to “grind”, ie do some work in RL to earn the RL money.
Whether you are grinding in RL or grinding in the game , what does it matter?That’s silly. A lot of people have full time jobs that we work at to earn money we use for all sorts of purposes. Some of that money, after expenses, is disposable income.
If I want to buy gems I use that disposable income to do so, I don’t decide to buy gems then go out and work for a bit to get the €10 for those gems.
eh? speak for yourself, I can go out, work any time, come back with some disposable income, even at 2 in the morning.