Guild Wars 2

Fixing the lovely Forum bug.

Anet have made so much events over the years there should never be a month were not somthink is not happening,just need to cycle the old events,even the scarlet events can be used again with Asura box of time

Astralporing.1957:

Raid team is supposedly 5 people. Adding 2 more people to that team just for the purpose of doing easy mode is hardly going to impact any other content in any visible way. Not with the numbers that are working on that content, and speed we’re getting it at currently.

And yet we do see complaints about the existence of this five person (out of well over a hundred devs working on the live game) raid team. How long after implementing your suggestion would it take for the outcry about nearly fifty percent increase in developer allocation to raids to begin?

Seera.5916:

STIHL.2489:

Seera.5916:

So please define casual as it applies to your posts

Casual, defined is often associated with relaxed approach, with notations of not possessing Serious Intent while engaging in the activity. IE: They are just Casually Playing a game of B-Ball, they are not looking to deal with some NBA wannabe.

When it comes to MMO’s, often it means people who want to be able to just play the game, not treat it like a second job. Casuals realize they are not going to save the world playing a MMO, in fact they are not even going to learn any valuable life skills, it’s just purposeless entertainment.

Urban Dictionary Offered this Gem of a Definition.

“Casual” – A pejorative term used by the “gaming elite” to describe any person(s) who doesn’t measure up the standards these sycophants have set for their definition of what a true gamer is.

So it’s not a question of skill, but as you said,it’s only when you have the right mindset, but what do you do when you don’t?

So by your own definition ANet hasn’t lost forgotten the casual gamer at all.

More like kicked to the curb then Forgotten.

I mean really, you need to grind mastery lines just to do map completion, as far as open world goes, it does not get too much more anti-casual then that, except maybe if they put in high mob density, required players to stay full cycle for events which were made into chained events as opposed to single stand alone events, and then put in break bars on what would essentially be trash mobs.. Oh wait.. yah they did all that too.

Forgotten, would be way too nice a word at that point, for what they did the casual group with HoT.

Raids are enjoyable by players just doing it for the sake of doing it and not trying to beat the fastest time.

Raids can’t be open pugged, thus players are required to build a network of other players to group with, 9 at the very least or join raiding guild, which would still require them to build a network other players in the guild. Then they need to scheduled play times, where they could all be on. On top of that, the player then needs to farm up the gear and copy or design an optimized build, once that is done they also need to master their role, which would take substantial outside of the game study, which is about as Anti-Casual as you can get, and they have not even got into doing the actual raid yet.

There are things that aren’t job related that you have to schedule. Group outings with friends. Where? When? Who’s coming? How long? And that could be all of a 5 minute conversation except maybe narrowing down the when and where.

Telling 100 random people to show up someplace and party, is easy, but that is what a Jormag event is, which is well known to be ultra-casual.

Scheduling a Fine Dinning Experience for a Quadruple Date event, that takes some serious work, especially if they all have dietary conflicts and you don’t even have a date. Which is what a Casual is in fact trying to do when they attempt to raid.

Yah.. Forgotten, would be putting it way to nicely at this point.

STIHL.2489:

Seera.5916:

STIHL.2489:

Seera.5916:

So please define casual as it applies to your posts

Casual, defined is often associated with relaxed approach, with notations of not possessing Serious Intent while engaging in the activity. IE: They are just Casually Playing a game of B-Ball, they are not looking to deal with some NBA wannabe.

When it comes to MMO’s, often it means people who want to be able to just play the game, not treat it like a second job. Casuals realize they are not going to save the world playing a MMO, in fact they are not even going to learn any valuable life skills, it’s just purposeless entertainment.

Urban Dictionary Offered this Gem of a Definition.

“Casual” – A pejorative term used by the “gaming elite” to describe any person(s) who doesn’t measure up the standards these sycophants have set for their definition of what a true gamer is.

So it’s not a question of skill, but as you said,it’s only when you have the right mindset, but what do you do when you don’t?

So by your own definition ANet hasn’t lost forgotten the casual gamer at all.

More like kicked to the curb then Forgotten.

I mean really, you need to grind mastery lines just to do map completion, as far as open world goes, it does not get too much more anti-casual then that, except maybe if they put in high mob density, required players to stay full cycle for events which were made into chained events as opposed to single stand alone events, and then put in break bars on what would essentially be trash mobs.. Oh wait.. yah they did all that too.

Forgotten, would be way too nice a word at that point, for what they did the casual group with HoT.

Raids are enjoyable by players just doing it for the sake of doing it and not trying to beat the fastest time.

Raids can’t be open pugged, thus players are required to build a network of other players to group with, 9 at the very least or join raiding guild, which would still require them to build a network other players in the guild. Then they need to scheduled play times, where they could all be on. On top of that, the player then needs to farm up the gear and copy or design an optimized build, once that is done they also need to master their role, which would take substantial outside of the game study, which is about as Anti-Casual as you can get, and they have not even got into doing the actual raid yet.

There are things that aren’t job related that you have to schedule. Group outings with friends. Where? When? Who’s coming? How long? And that could be all of a 5 minute conversation except maybe narrowing down the when and where.

Telling 100 random people to show up someplace and party, is easy, but that is what a Jormag event is, which is well known to be ultra-casual.

Scheduling a Fine Dinning Experience for a Quadruple Date event, that takes some serious work, especially if they all have dietary conflicts and you don’t even have a date. Which is what a Casual is in fact trying to do when they attempt to raid.

Yah.. Forgotten, would be putting it way to nicely at this point.

But some non-job related things do need some level of actual organization to be pulled off. Small party for the Super Bowl? You need to know how many are coming, food preferences, etc. So you know if you need to buy 1 or 2 bags of wings and fries. It’s not like a Super Bowl party needs to be super fancy and regulated with weeks of planning and setting up. You could probably do it the morning of if you’re lucky or not picky on what flavor wings you want.

Yet, there have been posts by CASUAL PLAYERS in CASUAL GUILDS posting about enjoying their raiding experience and do not describe the experience like it was a job. I recall one person saying that they raided only if enough people wanted to play the classes needed to fill all the roles. If they had 10 people and no one wanted to fill one of the roles, they didn’t raid that week and were totally fine with that. Enjoying trying to overcome the challenge of the bosses.

So please stop saying that all casual players are the exact same when it comes to what they enjoy doing in a game and how they enjoy doing it. Not all casuals abhor challenging content like raids. Some like getting together on occasional weekends when the planets align properly for them and attempting to be successful at raiding. Even if they end up failing to succeed. IE: they’re in it for the experience and not the success or the shiny at the end. And therefore not needing to spend hours studying up on how to beat the boss or perfecting builds to be the best composition ever.

Edit to add: That being said, I do understand that raids were not content designed around the casual player. However, I also understand that ANet does have the right to throw bones to the hardcore players every so often.

Seera.5916:

But some non-job related things do need some level of actual organization to be pulled off. Small party for the Super Bowl? You need to know how many are coming, food preferences, etc. So you know if you need to buy 1 or 2 bags of wings and fries. It’s not like a Super Bowl party needs to be super fancy and regulated with weeks of planning and setting up. You could probably do it the morning of if you’re lucky or not picky on what flavor wings you want.

A Super Bowl Party is easy, because it is a set event by the NFL, either people can make it, or they can’t, the event will happen none the less.

It’s more like a Jormag then Raid.

Also, with a super bowl party, if half the people don’t show, or a few can’t make it, so what, you and your buds are still gonna sit there, eat whatever, and watch the game.

Again, More Like a Jormag then a Raid.

So please stop saying that all casual players are the exact same when it comes to what they enjoy doing in a game and how they enjoy doing it. Not all casuals abhor challenging content like raids. Some like getting together on occasional weekends when the planets align properly for them and attempting to be successful at raiding. Even if they end up failing to succeed. IE: they’re in it for the experience and not the success or the shiny at the end. And therefore not needing to spend hours studying up on how to beat the boss or perfecting builds to be the best composition ever.

You know what, I’ll go agree to the idea that maybe from time to time there is this bunch of casual friends, guildies, whatever, that get together, maybe drink a bit and think they are gonna be all star raiders for the night, it’s this fun little dream for them, and they go in and fail miserably at it, but they had their laughs, they had a good time, and might some day try that again, All good!

Here is a heads up, That is not enjoying challenging content, that is called “Goofing Around” because they are not in fact doing anything to raise up to the challenge of the content, master it, and overcome it, Which is exactly what makes them casuals to begin with.

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

STIHL.2489:

Seera.5916:

So please define casual as it applies to your posts

Casual, defined is often associated with relaxed approach, with notations of not possessing Serious Intent while engaging in the activity. IE: They are just Casually Playing a game of B-Ball, they are not looking to deal with some NBA wannabe.

When it comes to MMO’s, often it means people who want to be able to just play the game, not treat it like a second job. Casuals realize they are not going to save the world playing a MMO, in fact they are not even going to learn any valuable life skills, it’s just purposeless entertainment.

Urban Dictionary Offered this Gem of a Definition.

“Casual” – A pejorative term used by the “gaming elite” to describe any person(s) who doesn’t measure up the standards these sycophants have set for their definition of what a true gamer is.

So it’s not a question of skill, but as you said,it’s only when you have the right mindset, but what do you do when you don’t?

By this definition I am definitely casual (even though I play games a lot) who wants to be stressed out by a game… games are supposed to be fun.

Moyayuki.3619:

Ellie.5913:

Spring festival.. that sounds nice, even lord of the rings has tons of festivals like that, why cant gw2?

I do miss the festivals, though the last one that happened in GW2 was that Year of the Ram one, right? I didn’t even participate in it. Halloween is always my favorite because there is a bigger variety of things to do. Even carving pumpkins while you are already doing other things in other maps adds a bit of fun to it. I wonder what the next one will be, and when? Those always have something for every kind of player.

Yea the lunar new year was the last one, although super adventure box was after that, I guess you can call that a festival or at least something to do when you don’t really have anything else to do in the game. They used to have more festival type things, I don’t know why they don’t any more. They also removed some things from the halloween festival that they used to have, like lunatic inquisition, that used to be a really fun thing to do in the halloween festival and for some reason they got rid of it last year http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lunatic_Inquisition
Out of all the games I’ve played gw2 definitely has the least amount of festivals.

Honestly, if you don’t care for raids then don’t do them. I have plenty to do as a “casual” player that I haven’t really tried yet and I’ve been here since Dec 1, 2012. With the fixes to HoT, I can look forward to finally play those maps even though I pre-ordered HoT and only scratched the surface enough to unlock gliding and working toward auto-loot.

PvE non-raid content is coming and will likely be out with the July quarterly patch. I’m not upset at ANet for first fixing many of the issues with HoT first.

Healix.5819:

GW1 never supported the casual play style as the game was all about builds. Since casuals are more likely to use random builds, the content could become nearly impossible. With the right setup however, the game was trivial, but casual players generally don’t put in a lot of effort, follow guides, research or etc.

That was true until build templates got introduced at while point it was just a couple clicks to load a build or you see what you were missing for a particular build.

STIHL.2489:

You know what, I’ll go agree to the idea that maybe from time to time there is this bunch of casual friends, guildies, whatever, that get together, maybe drink a bit and think they are gonna be all star raiders for the night, it’s this fun little dream for them, and they go in and fail miserably at it, but they had their laughs, they had a good time, and might some day try that again, All good!

Here is a heads up, That is not enjoying challenging content, that is called “Goofing Around” because they are not in fact doing anything to raise up to the challenge of the content, master it, and overcome it, Which is exactly what makes them casuals to begin with.

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

Stop trying to narrowly define “casual” to support your own agenda. I don’t know how casual I am, but I would identify my guild’s approach to raiding as casual:

Once per week, if enough players show up. Comp is volunteer-based. If nobody wants to perform a critical role and we don’t think it’s worth making the attempt, we skip raiding for that week. Nobody trash-talks anybody. Nobody takes it seriously. We’ve downed only one boss, but anyone is welcome to go and raid with another guild if they’d like to progress more quickly. It’s no big deal.

How is that not casual raiding by your own definition?

Khisanth.2948:

Healix.5819:

GW1 never supported the casual play style as the game was all about builds. Since casuals are more likely to use random builds, the content could become nearly impossible. With the right setup however, the game was trivial, but casual players generally don’t put in a lot of effort, follow guides, research or etc.

That was true until build templates got introduced at while point it was just a couple clicks to load a build or you see what you were missing for a particular build.

I just learned that I’m casual, and GW1 is the most epic funnest game I have ever played, (wiki is there for a reason) I love my build wars. How can it not be easy for casual, solo players whenever you have these amazing things called heros ( and early on in the game you have something called henchmen) that follow you around and kill things for you. And if you’re clueless about builds you just look one up or ask someone in town, most people were VERY happy to share a build if you asked them too, I remember asking some one for a build and he gave me like 15 different builds, very proud of his builds he was. And the pvp in that game was very nice, you had options for super hard core organized gamers to pvp, and other options for those who just want to do some more casual laid back pvp, and it was all very fun. And if you were having trouble all you had to do was ask and there was usually plenty of people that offered to help (back in the day when it was super populated) So yea don’t say gw1 wasn’t casual friendly it was super casual friendly AND had options for hard core super organized extremely competitive gamers as well.

AliamRationem.5172:

STIHL.2489:

You know what, I’ll go agree to the idea that maybe from time to time there is this bunch of casual friends, guildies, whatever, that get together, maybe drink a bit and think they are gonna be all star raiders for the night, it’s this fun little dream for them, and they go in and fail miserably at it, but they had their laughs, they had a good time, and might some day try that again, All good!

Here is a heads up, That is not enjoying challenging content, that is called “Goofing Around” because they are not in fact doing anything to raise up to the challenge of the content, master it, and overcome it, Which is exactly what makes them casuals to begin with.

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

Stop trying to narrowly define “casual” to support your own agenda. I don’t know how casual I am, but I would identify my guild’s approach to raiding as casual:

Once per week, if enough players show up. Comp is volunteer-based. If nobody wants to perform a critical role and we don’t think it’s worth making the attempt, we skip raiding for that week. Nobody trash-talks anybody. Nobody takes it seriously. We’ve downed only one boss, but anyone is welcome to go and raid with another guild if they’d like to progress more quickly. It’s no big deal.

How is that not casual raiding by your own definition?

You just did what I said a Casual would do, you approach content in a non-serious manner, with no intent or drive to master or overcome it. That is what goofing around with raids is, you’re playing with it, as opposed to playing it.

But again, casual is not a “Guild” thing, it’s an individual thing. It’s how an individual approaches the game, and their personal mindset. You could have the most Chillax guild out there, and have still have members that are super hardcore, among the ranks.

Also, Just because the Raid Schedule, and attitude for that guild run is marketed as "Not Serious’ does not mean that the people showing up are not hardcore players, some of them could be very hardcore, very driven to have optimal builds, and be the best they can be at this game.

You see there is a massive difference between Hardcore and Elitist. Hardcore players can be very sociable even easy going as far as dealing with other people go, in fact a Hardcore player could be chill with your casual guild run, because they enjoy the social moment of hanging with you all, I’ve done that more then I care to admit. I used to be very hardcore, but, I still had my social friends, many of which did not share my drive to overcome the game, and I’d down shift when I played with them, teach them a trick or two, and realize that this was just for goofing around, but my build was top tier optimal, and had already spent a lot of time mastering the moves to the encounter, and I already had a real raid night lined up, in fact, I was not expecting to ever win with my casual friends. It was just the way it was, in fact, often enough, I’d feel bad if we won, because it would mean I was going to be on timer for my real raid night, and then I needed to buy bypasses from the store, or play an alt. Which was why I always had two healers, LOL.

Anyway. Look, not sure what your goal is with this. So, gonna stop.

STIHL.2489:

AliamRationem.5172:

STIHL.2489:

You know what, I’ll go agree to the idea that maybe from time to time there is this bunch of casual friends, guildies, whatever, that get together, maybe drink a bit and think they are gonna be all star raiders for the night, it’s this fun little dream for them, and they go in and fail miserably at it, but they had their laughs, they had a good time, and might some day try that again, All good!

Here is a heads up, That is not enjoying challenging content, that is called “Goofing Around” because they are not in fact doing anything to raise up to the challenge of the content, master it, and overcome it, Which is exactly what makes them casuals to begin with.

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

Stop trying to narrowly define “casual” to support your own agenda. I don’t know how casual I am, but I would identify my guild’s approach to raiding as casual:

Once per week, if enough players show up. Comp is volunteer-based. If nobody wants to perform a critical role and we don’t think it’s worth making the attempt, we skip raiding for that week. Nobody trash-talks anybody. Nobody takes it seriously. We’ve downed only one boss, but anyone is welcome to go and raid with another guild if they’d like to progress more quickly. It’s no big deal.

How is that not casual raiding by your own definition?

You just did what I said a Casual would do, you approach content in a non-serious manner, with no intent or drive to master or overcome it. That is what goofing around with raids is, you’re playing with it, as opposed to playing it.

But again, casual is not a “Guild” thing, it’s an individual thing. It’s how an individual approaches the game, and their personal mindset. You could have the most Chillax guild out there, and have still have members that are super hardcore, among the ranks.

Also, Just because the Raid Schedule, and attitude for that guild run is marketed as "Not Serious’ does not mean that the people showing up are not hardcore players, some of them could be very hardcore, very driven to have optimal builds, and be the best they can be at this game.

You see there is a massive difference between Hardcore and Elitist. Hardcore players can be very sociable even easy going as far as dealing with other people go, in fact a Hardcore player could be chill with your casual guild run, because they enjoy the social moment of hanging with you all, I’ve done that more then I care to admit. I used to be very hardcore, but, I still had my social friends, many of which did not share my drive to overcome the game, and I’d down shift when I played with them, teach them a trick or two, and realize that this was just for goofing around, but my build was top tier optimal, and had already spent a lot of time mastering the moves to the encounter, and I already had a real raid night lined up, in fact, I was not expecting to ever win with my casual friends. It was just the way it was, in fact, often enough, I’d feel bad if we won, because it would mean I was going to be on timer for my real raid night, and then I needed to buy bypasses from the store, or play an alt. Which was why I always had two healers, LOL.

Anyway. Look, not sure what your goal is with this. So, gonna stop.

We are not “goofing around” or doing first-timer runs on drinking nights. We raided <1 night per week, ~2 hours per session for several weeks to master VG and we now beat him every time we raid. We’re getting close to beating Gorseval and we’re working on the new wing as well. We progress slowly because we don’t raid often and we aren’t pushing it.

However you wish define us, we’re hardly “hardcore” and we enjoy the new raids. We don’t consider them beyond our ability to master and we’re willing to take our time. I’d say it’s a success as far as casual raiding goes.

AliamRationem.5172:

STIHL.2489:

AliamRationem.5172:

STIHL.2489:

You know what, I’ll go agree to the idea that maybe from time to time there is this bunch of casual friends, guildies, whatever, that get together, maybe drink a bit and think they are gonna be all star raiders for the night, it’s this fun little dream for them, and they go in and fail miserably at it, but they had their laughs, they had a good time, and might some day try that again, All good!

Here is a heads up, That is not enjoying challenging content, that is called “Goofing Around” because they are not in fact doing anything to raise up to the challenge of the content, master it, and overcome it, Which is exactly what makes them casuals to begin with.

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

Stop trying to narrowly define “casual” to support your own agenda. I don’t know how casual I am, but I would identify my guild’s approach to raiding as casual:

Once per week, if enough players show up. Comp is volunteer-based. If nobody wants to perform a critical role and we don’t think it’s worth making the attempt, we skip raiding for that week. Nobody trash-talks anybody. Nobody takes it seriously. We’ve downed only one boss, but anyone is welcome to go and raid with another guild if they’d like to progress more quickly. It’s no big deal.

How is that not casual raiding by your own definition?

You just did what I said a Casual would do, you approach content in a non-serious manner, with no intent or drive to master or overcome it. That is what goofing around with raids is, you’re playing with it, as opposed to playing it.

But again, casual is not a “Guild” thing, it’s an individual thing. It’s how an individual approaches the game, and their personal mindset. You could have the most Chillax guild out there, and have still have members that are super hardcore, among the ranks.

Also, Just because the Raid Schedule, and attitude for that guild run is marketed as "Not Serious’ does not mean that the people showing up are not hardcore players, some of them could be very hardcore, very driven to have optimal builds, and be the best they can be at this game.

You see there is a massive difference between Hardcore and Elitist. Hardcore players can be very sociable even easy going as far as dealing with other people go, in fact a Hardcore player could be chill with your casual guild run, because they enjoy the social moment of hanging with you all, I’ve done that more then I care to admit. I used to be very hardcore, but, I still had my social friends, many of which did not share my drive to overcome the game, and I’d down shift when I played with them, teach them a trick or two, and realize that this was just for goofing around, but my build was top tier optimal, and had already spent a lot of time mastering the moves to the encounter, and I already had a real raid night lined up, in fact, I was not expecting to ever win with my casual friends. It was just the way it was, in fact, often enough, I’d feel bad if we won, because it would mean I was going to be on timer for my real raid night, and then I needed to buy bypasses from the store, or play an alt. Which was why I always had two healers, LOL.

Anyway. Look, not sure what your goal is with this. So, gonna stop.

We are not “goofing around” or doing first-timer runs on drinking nights. We raided <1 night per week, ~2 hours per session for several weeks to master VG and we now beat him every time we raid. We’re getting close to beating Gorseval and we’re working on the new wing as well. We progress slowly because we don’t raid often and we aren’t pushing it.

However you wish define us, we’re hardly “hardcore” and we enjoy the new raids. We don’t consider them beyond our ability to master and we’re willing to take our time. I’d say it’s a success as far as casual raiding goes.

We’re willing to take our time.

This is the difference between casuals and ‘casuals’. The complainers want instant results/satisfaction. Raids are casual and accessible, they just don’t provide instant satisfaction as you need to learn the encounters.

Ellie.5913:

I just learned that I’m casual, and GW1 is the most epic funnest game I have ever played, (wiki is there for a reason) I love my build wars.

The problem with the term casual is that it has multiple meanings. The casual play style however, is to play with little effort, as in, difficulty setting → just the story. Picture SAB infantile mode for example. These players just want to have casual fun and will tend to jump into the game pressing buttons with little knowledge of what they’re doing. They’re not going to bother with putting in extra effort to learn and research the game, so most will never see those easy builds or even know about the wiki or other resources. What most will end up doing is using whatever skills they were given and a random set of henchmen, as most tend to play MMOs like single player games, which made the game very difficult, and when these players can’t progress, they’ll simply move on. There’s a reason why the average player “stands in fire” and most MMOs balance solo content around those players.

STIHL.2489:

Ellie.5913:

Ryou.2398:

I don’t get why so many feel entitled after getting 1000s of hours from this game, I have never seen so many make such a deal and claim the sky is falling over an mmorpg releasing some harder content before, usually people understand why there needs to be a mixture, your just going to have to be patient, you aren’t paying a monthly fee if you don’t mind it, then play something else until they release the content you want.

Its not doing any good making thread after thread as how you think the game should be, there is criticism and there is entitlement.

YES perfect solution, I agree. We should all leave the game and come back in a couple years (or longer) after they’ve added something we’d enjoy doing. Eureka!

+1 I agree with this solution. Casual players should take this moment to move on to something else, nothing gets your voice heard more then when you quietly stop paying.

Except they have read these by now im sure, and there is more then just your opinion, you arent going to get your way just because you keep complaining.

Frediosz.2718:

Ryou.2398:

Again bro this doesnt make sense, for one thing most mmorpgs ive played eq1, 2, and city of heroes had tons of classes beyond the holy trinity where it was more fogiving, and guild wars 2 isnt that much different for one every class has a rez, and more then just druid can heal. So I dont get how this makes it hardcore.

I don’t give a crud about some korean-grinders – ANET DEVS stated that GW2 will be different and better then other MMOs – now it starts to becoming the same litter box as other korean-grinders are. (which is very bad)

Ryo
I didnt say anything about korean grinders, I dont play those, city of heroes was far from a korean grinder. Better is subjective and it is better in many ways but it doesnt offer everything every other good mmorpg has offered because it wanted to be unique and it really is unique, it may not be what your looking for but if your not happy that is your problem and your opinion alone.

Rez that is interrupted by even farts add to that tonns of AoE farted everytime by mobs + mobs themself, therefore if you die you lie dead until end of combat or wipe because bessurecting during combat is a waste to character spot.
Druid is only class designed to play healer role rest is just waste of potential (engi and sorc are better used as dps)

Ryo
Wrong eles are also amazing healers, and wrong about the rez as well, rezzes are popped all the time with no issues.

Ryou.2398:

And no I did not answer my own question, again I dont think you understand the definition of hardcore, if your into a decent guild they dont tell you to play a specific build or get out, yes you need some optimization but not as bad as your making it out to be.

First of all if you need a decent guild to – its already setting the bar at hard, decent guild is hard to find – most are blobbadons and good ones are usually full.

Ryo
No its not, and no they arent that hard you can ask in forums about guilds, I had no issues finding a few guilds I really enjoy.

And if you join a decent guild that do raiding you will need to be playing specific builds otherwise person that will use it will boot you from group going on raid if you won’t. But you’ll still be in that guild…

Ryo
You clearly didnt understand what I meant by decent guild, I didnt say anything about an elitist guild so no a decent guild will not kick you, but you do need to be effective. That is the nature of grouping in mmorpgs in general there is no avoiding that period, you cannot expect people to be happy your wasting everyones time because you choose to play a really bad build, im not saying you have to go meta here just effective.

Optimalization is more like change your gear to one of three depending on your role in a group, you need food, sharpening stuff and oil/tonics, specific skills and go watch 1000times how someone fights every boss PLUS teamspeak – there is not a SINGLE raid run without TS because communication is crutial.

Ryo
An exxageration, of course communication is important, ive never played an mmorpg where it wasnt, what where you expecting? Are you sure you just dont prefer single player rpgs? Even fps multiplayer games require comminication to an extent.

Everytime doing raid i feel like soloing Lupicus but with the exception that there is one Lupicus for every group member (10 in total) and if someone fails – i also get punished even though i didn’t make any mistake.

Ryo
Again this comes with the guild thing, if you play with people you know you wont run into this issue.

And by those power combined we do have:

Hardcore – you need a guild (pugs are out of the question), specific gear and food (otherwise someone will hop into your spot or if you take wrong gear boss will be running after you, you’ll heal for kittenz or dps will be lacking), and verbal communication (there are no people that go there without it – its ultimate requirement)

Ryo
Where is the definition where it states hardcore means you have to find a guild you like to raid with? That is not the definition of hardcore and niether is having to use food and gear, plenty of rpgs helps to use food or alchemy, in fact in many rpgs alchemy is a craft anyways and last I checked you can cook in this, its not a big deal to have to use food, and gear exists in every rpg and some form of optimization, maybe you dont like rpgs and thats ok, but dont sit here and tell me that gear makes an rpg hardcore lol, I cannot take you seriously.

Ryou.2398:

Your talking about the attitudes of some of the players, the raiding itself isnt hardcore you cannot blame the raiding design on player attitude completely.

If it wasn’t hardcore there wouldn’t be people getting kittened that you don’t wanna ping shtooff, that you don’t wanna join TS, that you have failed as a healer because you are learning this profession same goes for tanking.

Lastly (again) you would not need guild and ts if it wasn’t hardcore.

Every comment replied above, as for your last comment I answered this in your other replies above.

Healix.5819:

Ellie.5913:

I just learned that I’m casual, and GW1 is the most epic funnest game I have ever played, (wiki is there for a reason) I love my build wars.

The problem with the term casual is that it has multiple meanings. The casual play style however, is to play with little effort, as in, difficulty setting -> just the story. Picture SAB infantile mode for example. These players just want to have casual fun and will tend to jump into the game pressing buttons with little knowledge of what they’re doing. They’re not going to bother with putting in extra effort to learn and research the game, so most will never see those easy builds or even know about the wiki or other resources. What most will end up doing is using whatever skills they were given and a random set of henchmen, as most tend to play MMOs like single player games, which made the game very difficult, and when these players can’t progress, they’ll simply move on. There’s a reason why the average player “stands in fire” and most MMOs balance solo content around those players.

I have a feeling that most people who play games don’t play them as carelessly as you just described, most actually do want to succeed at whatever it is that they are doing and will find a way to help them to do that if it is holding their attention and interest to the point that they care enough to figure it out. As for gw1 it was EXTREMELY easy to figure out how to get help, hit menu-click help- read all the many help options they give- click wiki- read wiki a bit, then look up what you need help with. GW 1 was my first online game and even I figured out things I needed to know with the greatest of ease ( and I tend to be a bit ditsy and slow thinking at times) I didn’t even know that the game was to be played with other people so I didn’t really pay that much attention to others, but that didn’t stop kind hearted people from approaching me and asking me if I needed help when it appeared to them that I might be lost xD
But yea, I liked that definition of casual player in a previous post about not treating a game like a job and just playing for fun entertainment, which is what I do. I don’t like stressing out myself trying to make a team then be told exactly what gear to use, what skills to use, when and how I gotta play and then yelling at me & calling me names or kicking me from the group because I didn’t do something perfect enough, THAT is not my idea of how games should be played so if it means I’m a casual then I’m a casual and happy to be so. And yes gw1 was very casual friendly AND very super serious elite pro competitiveness friendly as well.

Seera.5916:

But some non-job related things do need some level of actual organization to be pulled off. Small party for the Super Bowl? You need to know how many are coming, food preferences, etc. So you know if you need to buy 1 or 2 bags of wings and fries. It’s not like a Super Bowl party needs to be super fancy and regulated with weeks of planning and setting up. You could probably do it the morning of if you’re lucky or not picky on what flavor wings you want.

Yet, there have been posts by CASUAL PLAYERS in CASUAL GUILDS posting about enjoying their raiding experience and do not describe the experience like it was a job. I recall one person saying that they raided only if enough people wanted to play the classes needed to fill all the roles. If they had 10 people and no one wanted to fill one of the roles, they didn’t raid that week and were totally fine with that. Enjoying trying to overcome the challenge of the bosses.

So please stop saying that all casual players are the exact same when it comes to what they enjoy doing in a game and how they enjoy doing it. Not all casuals abhor challenging content like raids. Some like getting together on occasional weekends when the planets align properly for them and attempting to be successful at raiding. Even if they end up failing to succeed. IE: they’re in it for the experience and not the success or the shiny at the end. And therefore not needing to spend hours studying up on how to beat the boss or perfecting builds to be the best composition ever.

Edit to add: That being said, I do understand that raids were not content designed around the casual player. However, I also understand that ANet does have the right to throw bones to the hardcore players every so often.

this is my experience of raiding. It is CONSTANT WORK. Someone always can’t come, if the team fails enough everyone gets a rather toxic attitude, casual teams tear themselves apart on how casual they wanna be. How much ascendeds will you force your raid team to get? How much are you going to push it for it to be specific classes, because you can’t clear otherwise? Dungeons? Go with anyone. Absolutely anyone can clear dungeons. Raids? Not so much.

AliamRationem.5172:

Stop trying to narrowly define “casual” to support your own agenda. I don’t know how casual I am, but I would identify my guild’s approach to raiding as casual:

Once per week, if enough players show up. Comp is volunteer-based. If nobody wants to perform a critical role and we don’t think it’s worth making the attempt, we skip raiding for that week. Nobody trash-talks anybody. Nobody takes it seriously. We’ve downed only one boss, but anyone is welcome to go and raid with another guild if they’d like to progress more quickly. It’s no big deal.

How is that not casual raiding by your own definition?

that’s the problem with your approach. You can come in and not get past the first boss over 9 months. How many guys that come with you actually come back? I know that guilds are less important now that you have the ability to chat with all of the ones that you’re in at once, but how many people actually spend time with you guys, instead of with the guilds that can actually clear content? Or even better, how many of those that cleared the first boss with you went somewhere else to actually learn it and came back to carry the rest of the team?

With no set team all I can call it is goofing around.

I’m a ‘casual’ player. In as far as achieving level 80 I tend to spend a lot of my time helping newbies learn the world, the lore, the way of things. This extends from Levels 1-15 all the way up to the eighties. I often ‘casually’ fight in such situations with other players as not everyone who is an Eighty has actually earned it and lack experience. Not dissin’ boosters, but I’m old-skool and believe that in order to KNOW Tyria, you have to have fought on every square inch of it. I certainly have.

Mirta.5029:

AliamRationem.5172:

Stop trying to narrowly define “casual” to support your own agenda. I don’t know how casual I am, but I would identify my guild’s approach to raiding as casual:

Once per week, if enough players show up. Comp is volunteer-based. If nobody wants to perform a critical role and we don’t think it’s worth making the attempt, we skip raiding for that week. Nobody trash-talks anybody. Nobody takes it seriously. We’ve downed only one boss, but anyone is welcome to go and raid with another guild if they’d like to progress more quickly. It’s no big deal.

How is that not casual raiding by your own definition?

that’s the problem with your approach. You can come in and not get past the first boss over 9 months. How many guys that come with you actually come back? I know that guilds are less important now that you have the ability to chat with all of the ones that you’re in at once, but how many people actually spend time with you guys, instead of with the guilds that can actually clear content? Or even better, how many of those that cleared the first boss with you went somewhere else to actually learn it and came back to carry the rest of the team?

With no set team all I can call it is goofing around.

I didn’t say we don’t have a set raid team. It’s mostly the same people every week. For instance, I raid most weeks. But sometimes I show up and the group is full. No big deal. I’ll raid next week. Or I can raid with another guild. Last night we were short a couple of people, so we didn’t raid.

I also didn’t say we’d been working on it for 9 months (I’ve only even played this game for 4 months now!). It’s only been a few weeks since our first VG kill and we’re getting close on gorseval and starting to branch out into the other wings.

You can define for yourself what you’re willing to put up with. Personally, I don’t think it’s a very “casual” approach to expect to clear raids quickly and easily. I don’t mind taking my time. And it seems to me all of the complaints regarding elitism are easily solved by forming a group that isn’t full of elitists.

I think there are two main issues with the game.

Firstly, there is no new in-between content. You either have the map meta events, which are way too casual to be consistently repeated and you have raids. There have been countless posts as to why people don’t want/can’t raid, some of them whining, some of them legit, but at the end of the day if you want to do something decently challenging without the hustle of organizing 10 people, you have 0 options.

Secondly, the huge content drought. I just can’t believe they haven’t added at least 3-4 fractals until now. Or at least try to revisit the idea of dungeons. Since the game has no treadmill there’s little incentive to revisit old content too.

After repeatedly failing raid attempts due to organizational issues, I played the game less and less. I don’t know how ESO can release dungeons, zones, good story, new weapons and armor, new features and what not, every 3 months, but Gw2 can barely squeeze out 3 raids in 8 months.

Great posts Stihl

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Raids are made by an independent team, and their development doesn’t effect otherworldly being done on PvE.

To say that development doesn’t effect other parts of the game is a flawed premise. These people are getting paid, right? And they’re not working on the rest of the game? That sort of sounds like what they had going on with the legendary six. Apparently, the dedicated team actually did effect overall development.

Guhracie.3419:

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Raids are made by an independent team, and their development doesn’t effect otherworldly being done on PvE.

To say that development doesn’t effect other parts of the game is a flawed premise. These people are getting paid, right? And they’re not working on the rest of the game? That sort of sounds like what they had going on with the legendary six. Apparently, the dedicated team actually did effect overall development.

Think of it like this – when you have 2 people hammering a nail, will adding a third person make the nail get hammered faster? I would argue not, as certain actions can only be completed at a rough rate. Adding more people won’t make it go faster, if anything, the people will start getting in eachothers’ way.

in software development, you would split that nail up into 3 nail so 3 people can hammer it. The real problem is finding developers that can hammer straight without constant guidance.

vesica tempestas.1563:

in software development, you would split that nail up into 3 nail so 3 people can hammer it. The real problem is finding developers that can hammer straight without constant guidance.

But even then, there becomes a magic number where adding more developers would only slow things down. Whether or not ANet has each time operating at maximum capacity without effecting progress negatively or not is unknown and we will likely never know. All we can do is trust and/or hope that ANet has the resources they have allocated the best way possible.

Seera.5916:

vesica tempestas.1563:

in software development, you would split that nail up into 3 nail so 3 people can hammer it. The real problem is finding developers that can hammer straight without constant guidance.

But even then, there becomes a magic number where adding more developers would only slow things down.

That might be applicable at Blizzard’s level, but Anet is nowhere close to that.

Miellyn.6847:

We’re willing to take our time.

This is the difference between casuals and ‘casuals’. The complainers want instant results/satisfaction. Raids are casual and accessible, they just don’t provide instant satisfaction as you need to learn the encounters.

This is laughable, Lets get a few thing clear here, you’re little static group, that bails if not enough people show up, means you won’t pug, which is an elitist approach to game playing, not a casual one. Not to mention you have made it clear that your members also raid with other groups/guilds. So All of the people in the guild are serious about being raiders, which makes all the individuals hardcore players.

Thus, you’re not casual players, in fact, If you want to say you’re guild does a “casual raid Night”, you can, but that in no way makes any of you actual casual players, or affiliated to the casual demographic in any way.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Yes, Anet Abandoned their Casual Demographic, not only with HOT, (which include raids) but also other little things, like the Fractal Reward Revamp.

It’s not about not having anything to do, it’s about not having anything to look forward to, since the end game is now all about static groups, and optimized builds, there is really, no reason to even bother making an effort to get there for most Casual players.

Ryou.2398:

Frediosz.2718:

Ryou.2398:

Again bro this doesnt make sense, for one thing most mmorpgs ive played eq1, 2, and city of heroes had tons of classes beyond the holy trinity where it was more fogiving, and guild wars 2 isnt that much different for one every class has a rez, and more then just druid can heal. So I dont get how this makes it hardcore.

I don’t give a crud about some korean-grinders – ANET DEVS stated that GW2 will be different and better then other MMOs – now it starts to becoming the same litter box as other korean-grinders are. (which is very bad)

Ryo
I didnt say anything about korean grinders, I dont play those, city of heroes was far from a korean grinder. Better is subjective and it is better in many ways but it doesnt offer everything every other good mmorpg has offered because it wanted to be unique and it really is unique, it may not be what your looking for but if your not happy that is your problem and your opinion alone.

Rez that is interrupted by even farts add to that tonns of AoE farted everytime by mobs + mobs themself, therefore if you die you lie dead until end of combat or wipe because bessurecting during combat is a waste to character spot.
Druid is only class designed to play healer role rest is just waste of potential (engi and sorc are better used as dps)

Ryo
Wrong eles are also amazing healers, and wrong about the rez as well, rezzes are popped all the time with no issues.

Ryou.2398:

And no I did not answer my own question, again I dont think you understand the definition of hardcore, if your into a decent guild they dont tell you to play a specific build or get out, yes you need some optimization but not as bad as your making it out to be.

First of all if you need a decent guild to – its already setting the bar at hard, decent guild is hard to find – most are blobbadons and good ones are usually full.

Ryo
No its not, and no they arent that hard you can ask in forums about guilds, I had no issues finding a few guilds I really enjoy.

And if you join a decent guild that do raiding you will need to be playing specific builds otherwise person that will use it will boot you from group going on raid if you won’t. But you’ll still be in that guild…

Ryo
You clearly didnt understand what I meant by decent guild, I didnt say anything about an elitist guild so no a decent guild will not kick you, but you do need to be effective. That is the nature of grouping in mmorpgs in general there is no avoiding that period, you cannot expect people to be happy your wasting everyones time because you choose to play a really bad build, im not saying you have to go meta here just effective.

Optimalization is more like change your gear to one of three depending on your role in a group, you need food, sharpening stuff and oil/tonics, specific skills and go watch 1000times how someone fights every boss PLUS teamspeak – there is not a SINGLE raid run without TS because communication is crutial.

Ryo
An exxageration, of course communication is important, ive never played an mmorpg where it wasnt, what where you expecting? Are you sure you just dont prefer single player rpgs? Even fps multiplayer games require comminication to an extent.

Everytime doing raid i feel like soloing Lupicus but with the exception that there is one Lupicus for every group member (10 in total) and if someone fails – i also get punished even though i didn’t make any mistake.

Ryo
Again this comes with the guild thing, if you play with people you know you wont run into this issue.

And by those power combined we do have:

Hardcore – you need a guild (pugs are out of the question), specific gear and food (otherwise someone will hop into your spot or if you take wrong gear boss will be running after you, you’ll heal for kittenz or dps will be lacking), and verbal communication (there are no people that go there without it – its ultimate requirement)

Ryo
Where is the definition where it states hardcore means you have to find a guild you like to raid with? That is not the definition of hardcore and niether is having to use food and gear, plenty of rpgs helps to use food or alchemy, in fact in many rpgs alchemy is a craft anyways and last I checked you can cook in this, its not a big deal to have to use food, and gear exists in every rpg and some form of optimization, maybe you dont like rpgs and thats ok, but dont sit here and tell me that gear makes an rpg hardcore lol, I cannot take you seriously.

Ryou.2398:

Your talking about the attitudes of some of the players, the raiding itself isnt hardcore you cannot blame the raiding design on player attitude completely.

If it wasn’t hardcore there wouldn’t be people getting kittened that you don’t wanna ping shtooff, that you don’t wanna join TS, that you have failed as a healer because you are learning this profession same goes for tanking.

Lastly (again) you would not need guild and ts if it wasn’t hardcore.

Every comment replied above, as for your last comment I answered this in your other replies above.

Yeah, yeah… Starcraft’s multiplayer is also as casual as raids.

Anyway im out of this discussion, reading all this BS just gave me brain damage.

Having to fulfill 20 tasks like need of a guild, gear, food, ts and other BS in casual…

Does not compute…

Does not com…

Does…

Error…

Err..

STIHL.2489:

Miellyn.6847:

We’re willing to take our time.

This is the difference between casuals and ‘casuals’. The complainers want instant results/satisfaction. Raids are casual and accessible, they just don’t provide instant satisfaction as you need to learn the encounters.

This is laughable, Lets get a few thing clear here, you’re little static group, that bails if not enough people show up, means you won’t pug, which is an elitist approach to game playing, not a casual one. Not to mention you have made it clear that your members also raid with other groups/guilds. So All of the people in the guild are serious about being raiders, which makes all the individuals hardcore players.

Thus, you’re not casual players, in fact, If you want to say you’re guild does a “casual raid Night”, you can, but that in no way makes any of you actual casual players, or affiliated to the casual demographic in any way.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Yes, Anet Abandoned their Casual Demographic, not only with HOT, (which include raids) but also other little things, like the Fractal Reward Revamp.

It’s not about not having anything to do, it’s about not having anything to look forward to, since the end game is now all about static groups, and optimized builds, there is really, no reason to even bother making an effort to get there for most Casual players.

So rewarding higher difficulty play is abandoning casual players? Man, you have a serious victim complex. You may want to seek some help for that. But not to make the subject about your health, back to the topic at hand.

Have you even tried to pug a raid? I’ve pugged every successful raid I’ve been in and there are so many groups asking for people to join them and learn/eventually beat within a pug environment. You just aren’t looking hard enough because God forbid you do something that contradicts your “I’m so ignored” mentality.

Additionally, high level fractals are not hard if you bothered to get enough AR to not get instakilled, and if you feel as if the difficulty level is a deterrent for casual players in raids and fractals then I’d love for you to explain why refusing to learn how to play is anything but obstinate and unhelpful. No wonder people like that get kicked from raids…I’d rather have a full group of “casuals” who try than a group of people who refuse to learn even basic skills and mechanics.

i am a casual gamer, i work 8 hours a day with only 2 days off a week. i can still raid with my guild 3 evenings a week and yes, maybe we are taking more than others raid groups to finish the raid content but we are still having fun and none of us are complaining this is too hard.
the problem is that when you say casual gamer you say solo players

STIHL.2489:

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

That’s good advice and, no offense, but you really should be the first to take it. I’ve been following your posts and you’ve done nothing but define casuals and casual play by your own terms in a calculated way to bolster your own subjective argument. You’ve invented a ‘casual group’ and made yourself spokesman for it. You’re voicing your own opinion (as we all are) and there’s nothing wrong with that – except that you’re acting like it’s fact and like you speak for all us ‘casuals’. And worse, you’re making us out to be victims, unable to cope with change and unable to adapt. It’s insulting and untrue.

I’m a casual. I play two nights a week if I can, I don’t min-max and I still can’t see tells. My technique is mashing buttons and I have all the usual familiar responsbilities and time constraints that all us ‘casuals’ seem to have. (I don’t have a dog. Does that make me hard-core?) And I enjoy HOT. Let’s get that clear. I ENJOY HOT and don’t find it a struggle or grind.

Casuals can play HOT. Casuals can enjoy HOT. There is nothing physical stopping this, no matter what you say. The game already had plenty for casuals to do and HOT just gave us more. You can, and undoubtably will, argue that just because everything isn’t available to casuals then nothing is for casuals. Feel free to argue that, if you think it’s rational. Feel free to redefine me as not casual, by your subjective definition. But for your own self-respect and that of the people you feel you’re representing, please stop representing us. You’re doing a lousy job.

vesica tempestas.1563:

in software development, you would split that nail up into 3 nail so 3 people can hammer it. The real problem is finding developers that can hammer straight without constant guidance.

True, but there is content called dungeons and fractals, that hasn’t had any new releases for ages. The raid team would be naturally good at making instanced content. Having them make new dungeons instead of allocating them to LW3 would be a good option.

Actually, I suspect that this is exactly what they are doing. After all, Anet did say that they wanted to make fractal mechanics more like raid mechanics. The first new fractal in years is being released sometime after the final raid wing, coincidence? If the next raid is part of the next expansion, the expansion team may have started working on the maps that the raid team will use when making the next raid. Having no raid to work on, the raid team would just focus on fractals for a bit. This is all speculation of course, so take it with a grain of salt, but I wouldn’t be surprised if something like this was happening.

Frediosz.2718:

Ryou.2398:

Frediosz.2718:

Ryou.2398:

Again bro this doesnt make sense, for one thing most mmorpgs ive played eq1, 2, and city of heroes had tons of classes beyond the holy trinity where it was more fogiving, and guild wars 2 isnt that much different for one every class has a rez, and more then just druid can heal. So I dont get how this makes it hardcore.

I don’t give a crud about some korean-grinders – ANET DEVS stated that GW2 will be different and better then other MMOs – now it starts to becoming the same litter box as other korean-grinders are. (which is very bad)

Ryo
I didnt say anything about korean grinders, I dont play those, city of heroes was far from a korean grinder. Better is subjective and it is better in many ways but it doesnt offer everything every other good mmorpg has offered because it wanted to be unique and it really is unique, it may not be what your looking for but if your not happy that is your problem and your opinion alone.

Rez that is interrupted by even farts add to that tonns of AoE farted everytime by mobs + mobs themself, therefore if you die you lie dead until end of combat or wipe because bessurecting during combat is a waste to character spot.
Druid is only class designed to play healer role rest is just waste of potential (engi and sorc are better used as dps)

Ryo
Wrong eles are also amazing healers, and wrong about the rez as well, rezzes are popped all the time with no issues.

Ryou.2398:

And no I did not answer my own question, again I dont think you understand the definition of hardcore, if your into a decent guild they dont tell you to play a specific build or get out, yes you need some optimization but not as bad as your making it out to be.

First of all if you need a decent guild to – its already setting the bar at hard, decent guild is hard to find – most are blobbadons and good ones are usually full.

Ryo
No its not, and no they arent that hard you can ask in forums about guilds, I had no issues finding a few guilds I really enjoy.

And if you join a decent guild that do raiding you will need to be playing specific builds otherwise person that will use it will boot you from group going on raid if you won’t. But you’ll still be in that guild…

Ryo
You clearly didnt understand what I meant by decent guild, I didnt say anything about an elitist guild so no a decent guild will not kick you, but you do need to be effective. That is the nature of grouping in mmorpgs in general there is no avoiding that period, you cannot expect people to be happy your wasting everyones time because you choose to play a really bad build, im not saying you have to go meta here just effective.

Optimalization is more like change your gear to one of three depending on your role in a group, you need food, sharpening stuff and oil/tonics, specific skills and go watch 1000times how someone fights every boss PLUS teamspeak – there is not a SINGLE raid run without TS because communication is crutial.

Ryo
An exxageration, of course communication is important, ive never played an mmorpg where it wasnt, what where you expecting? Are you sure you just dont prefer single player rpgs? Even fps multiplayer games require comminication to an extent.

Everytime doing raid i feel like soloing Lupicus but with the exception that there is one Lupicus for every group member (10 in total) and if someone fails – i also get punished even though i didn’t make any mistake.

Ryo
Again this comes with the guild thing, if you play with people you know you wont run into this issue.

And by those power combined we do have:

Hardcore – you need a guild (pugs are out of the question), specific gear and food (otherwise someone will hop into your spot or if you take wrong gear boss will be running after you, you’ll heal for kittenz or dps will be lacking), and verbal communication (there are no people that go there without it – its ultimate requirement)

Ryo
Where is the definition where it states hardcore means you have to find a guild you like to raid with? That is not the definition of hardcore and niether is having to use food and gear, plenty of rpgs helps to use food or alchemy, in fact in many rpgs alchemy is a craft anyways and last I checked you can cook in this, its not a big deal to have to use food, and gear exists in every rpg and some form of optimization, maybe you dont like rpgs and thats ok, but dont sit here and tell me that gear makes an rpg hardcore lol, I cannot take you seriously.

Ryou.2398:

Your talking about the attitudes of some of the players, the raiding itself isnt hardcore you cannot blame the raiding design on player attitude completely.

If it wasn’t hardcore there wouldn’t be people getting kittened that you don’t wanna ping shtooff, that you don’t wanna join TS, that you have failed as a healer because you are learning this profession same goes for tanking.

Lastly (again) you would not need guild and ts if it wasn’t hardcore.

Every comment replied above, as for your last comment I answered this in your other replies above.

Yeah, yeah… Starcraft’s multiplayer is also as casual as raids.

Anyway im out of this discussion, reading all this BS just gave me brain damage.

Having to fulfill 20 tasks like need of a guild, gear, food, ts and other BS in casual…

Does not compute…

Does not com…

Does…

Error…

Err..

<bzzz>

Funny I thought the same about yours, atleast I was respectful enough to read your entire reply, I am not here to argue but you are trying to say things that are simply not true. And starcraft you can pause and its an rts game it doesnt even apply to an mmorpg. The only reason why you wont reply is because you cannot argue because you are wrong about the game and you know it.

Amadan.9451:

i am a casual gamer, i work 8 hours a day with only 2 days off a week. i can still raid with my guild 3 evenings a week and yes, maybe we are taking more than others raid groups to finish the raid content but we are still having fun and none of us are complaining this is too hard.
the problem is that when you say casual gamer you say solo players

that is not a lot of work time. Heck I’ve seen people with 12h work schedules be hardcore. They simply sleep little.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

STIHL.2489:

Stop trying to make Casuals out to be something they are not.

That’s good advice and, no offense, but you really should be the first to take it. I’ve been following your posts and you’ve done nothing but define casuals and casual play by your own terms in a calculated way to bolster your own subjective argument. You’ve invented a ‘casual group’ and made yourself spokesman for it. You’re voicing your own opinion (as we all are) and there’s nothing wrong with that – except that you’re acting like it’s fact and like you speak for all us ‘casuals’. And worse, you’re making us out to be victims, unable to cope with change and unable to adapt. It’s insulting and untrue.

I’m a casual. I play two nights a week if I can, I don’t min-max and I still can’t see tells. My technique is mashing buttons and I have all the usual familiar responsbilities and time constraints that all us ‘casuals’ seem to have. (I don’t have a dog. Does that make me hard-core?) And I enjoy HOT. Let’s get that clear. I ENJOY HOT and don’t find it a struggle or grind.

You’re telling me that you can play some hackneyed build and ‘button mash’ your way though Champion Skill Point Challenges? High densities of Guard Snipers and Guard Punishers and Pocket Raptors, as well as Itzl Bladedancer and Shadowleapers, and that’s not even getting out of VB.

That’s one extraordinary claim. In fact that kind of claim is so surrealistic that I’d love to watch a video of that happening, I’d be captivated watching some casual player just mashes all their skills on some medi guard in full nomads using vampire runes, with staff and sword/shield, and take down vast sums of mobs in HOT.

It would be surreal to see that happen, since I know it can’t.

As for What a Casual can and Can’t do, that is on them. However, the Requirement for Mastery Ranks just to map complete, makes HOT Open World Content a Grind, which is often considered to be Anti-Casual. Now, I’ll admit, there is always that special snowflake that has 1 hour a week to play and adores the prospect of using it to grind mastery ranks just to talk to some frogs, because they love that whole process.

I am sure that person would tell me I don’t speak for them either, and they would be right.

slashlizardy.9167:

Great posts Stihl

Thank you!

STIHL.2489:

Miellyn.6847:

We’re willing to take our time.

This is the difference between casuals and ‘casuals’. The complainers want instant results/satisfaction. Raids are casual and accessible, they just don’t provide instant satisfaction as you need to learn the encounters.

This is laughable, Lets get a few thing clear here, you’re little static group, that bails if not enough people show up, means you won’t pug, which is an elitist approach to game playing, not a casual one. Not to mention you have made it clear that your members also raid with other groups/guilds. So All of the people in the guild are serious about being raiders, which makes all the individuals hardcore players.

Thus, you’re not casual players, in fact, If you want to say you’re guild does a “casual raid Night”, you can, but that in no way makes any of you actual casual players, or affiliated to the casual demographic in any way.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Yes, Anet Abandoned their Casual Demographic, not only with HOT, (which include raids) but also other little things, like the Fractal Reward Revamp.

It’s not about not having anything to do, it’s about not having anything to look forward to, since the end game is now all about static groups, and optimized builds, there is really, no reason to even bother making an effort to get there for most Casual players.

First of all, we take PUGs with us if we are 5 players+, I’m not in the same guild.
So it is elitist now if people only play in a group with players that they enjoy playing with? Most casuals with a guild play like that because they value enjoyment over playing content at all costs. So casuals = elitists? Or are you the one and only casual and everybody who doesn’t fit your playstyle is a toxic elitist?
This whole casual and easy mode raid discussion reaches a new low every day.

The time thingy was actually directed towards the people that complain that they can’t raid 4h a night for 3+ nights a week.
You can also raid 1-2 nights for 2h a week. You won’t clear all wings from the start, it will take you more time to complete it/learn the encounters and you have to choose which wing you want to do, but it is still possible to see the whole content with that time schedule.
And this is exactly what most complainers don’t want. They want to go in and face roll everything for the same rewards, maybe in lower quantity. They don’t want to learn the encounters, only instant satisfaction.

Miellyn.6847:

First of all, we take PUGs with us

I am really loving how the stories keep changing.

AliamRationem.5172:

Once per week, if enough players show up.

Then again you both could be in different guilds, but the way you were posting together, did make it seem like you were both together.

Also, I don’t think someone who has been playing for, I believe you said 4 months, has any place to talk to players who have been playing for years about “instant gratification”

But I stand by what I said above, about your guild, not being casual, or having casual players among them. I mean look at you, 4 months, and I wager all the characters in your sig are raid ready, that’s some serious achievements, pretty impressively hardcore if you ask me, given that you said you have been working on raids, so that means in reality, 3 character in full ascended in less then 2 months.

Color me Impressed.

Now you might be inspired to try and downplay that, but that would further along how seriously hardcore you must approach the game, if you don’t think that is something impressive. So I don’t mean to be rude, but truth is, just by your posts, it’s pretty clear you have no understanding of the Casual Demographic.

So I am not sure what your intent is, in either case.

This Topic is, Did Anet Forget their Casual Players.

And in Truth, they moved the game away from their Casual base, they just put out a full Expansion, that catered to the Hardcore players, coupled that with some minor changes to the core game, with the way Fractal Rewards, all new Legendary Weapons Account bound, update to make the Dragon Metas much harder, it’s a small series of little things, and it really does look like Anet is flipping the bird pretty seriously at their casual base.

Like any game that does that, yah, I hope it bites them in the kitten , only because I would love for it be a cautionary tale to other game developers to not do the same.

STIHL.2489:

Miellyn.6847:

First of all, we take PUGs with us

I am really loving how the stories keep changing.

AliamRationem.5172:

Once per week, if enough players show up.

Then again you both could be in different guilds, but the way you were posting together, did make it seem like you were both together.

Also, I don;t think someone who has been playing for, I believe you said 4 months, has any place to talk to players who have been playing for years about “instant gratification”

We are two completly different persons, who never met or talked to each other. There is no changing story.
I’m playing GW2 since release and MMOs around 10 years and GW2 playtime has nothing to do with the ‘right’ to talk about instant gratification. It’s pretty obvious when you followed the whole discussion about raid easy mode.
There are enough casual guilds that run Forsaken Thicket and clear it. If you don’t enter it with the expectation to clear everything in the first 2-3 tries after you saw it and maybe not all three wings every week you are fine.

ArenaNet didn’t forget their players, they ruined their schedule for content releases. If LS3 is on an similiar difficulty as Wing 2, yes than they forget about it. Otherwise it’s a content release problem.
The quarterly update in April also says otherwise.
The shatterer is not harder than before. It is different and you can not afk it without dying anymore. But you can kill him without ever breaking his breakbar. Do you think that meta events need afk-spots or events that require some movement and CC are not casual?
HoT PvE is not hardcore. It is harder than core tyria but in no way hardcore.
How do accountbound legendaries affect casuals in anyway? There is most likely no casual that ever bought a complete legendary from the TP.

And I also love how you ignore statments that undermine everything you said and nobody can take you serious anymore.
Why are groups that don’t take PUGs with them elitists? All groups that value enjoyment over playing specific content on a specific day work that way.

Miellyn.6847:

And I also love how you ignore statments that undermine everything you said and nobody can take you serious anymore.

Those statements are said just to incite argument, just like this one. Hence why I also have to ignore around 90% of what you say as well.

also, minor note:

Miellyn.6847:

The shatterer is not harder than before. It is different and you can not afk it without dying anymore.

You realize that “you cannot afk without dying anymore” is because it’s harder then before.

I believe we are done.

Mirta.5029:

Amadan.9451:

i am a casual gamer, i work 8 hours a day with only 2 days off a week. i can still raid with my guild 3 evenings a week and yes, maybe we are taking more than others raid groups to finish the raid content but we are still having fun and none of us are complaining this is too hard.
the problem is that when you say casual gamer you say solo players

that is not a lot of work time. Heck I’ve seen people with 12h work schedules be hardcore. They simply sleep little.

I don’t know, those 8 hours feel pretty endless to me, and I don’t spend them in game.
Sometimes i don’t have time to do dailies. I still spend 2 hours 3 days a week to raid with my guild, i don’t know if that is hard core gaming, but definitely the fact that can’t play all day long doesn’t mean i cannot raid. And yes it is hard content to the point it can become frustrating and sometimes i have the feeling we will never beat the raid, but when you do defeat an hard boss the satisfaction is so high I don’t even care if I got a useless exotic for loot.
I guess my point here is the same as before, hard content can be done by casuals but not by solo…

ArchonWing.9480:

FrizzFreston.5290:

I’m just wondering how there is nothing to do if you play casually. Surely you have lots of things still to do if you actually played casually.

Unless casual means “I have done everything upto now and completed it as fast as I could.” Though I don’t consider that casual at all.

Casual means whatever is convenient to suit your own needs. Same goes for any other generic label like hardcore.

Basically if you claim that you are being disenfranchised, people may not be as sympathetic than if you say this group that you projected yourself in is suffering even if you’re just speaking on behalf of this group based entirely on your own experience and that person you asked yesterday.

So instead of saying
“Who left this stuff here? I can’t pass!”

Say,
“Who left this here? People can’t pass through and that’s highly inconsiderate”.

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. There are most likely people that feel similarly to you, and one often tends to associate with others that have things to agree on. But I think it’s careful to realize that one may be speaking on behalf of a group that doesn’t agree as such.

The other thing to grasp here is that it is done to avoid “Why do you think Arenanet should cater to you?” as some kind of populist argument so one tries to seek the support of a large group. I actually don’t believe this at all. I am a customer, Arenanet should cater to me. That doesn’t mean it should revolve around me, and there are limits to this, regardless of what kind of majority I happen to belong to. But they should take care of my (reasonable) needs whenever possible.

With my own definition of casual, it just confounds me that one could play in such a fashion and still be hungry for more content. But that’s just me.

It was mostly a rethorical question, but you explained what I was hinting at way better than I ever could.

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