Guild Wars 2

So apparently everytime someone puts on a hat, our hair completely disappears, this really just makes players not want to wear said hats, for example, the ringmasters hat is cool, but my asura loses his great hair when i put it on, i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

Anet will not fix this and they are well aware of this issue and players request to fix it since GW1,. It’s just something we have to live with, I know life is so harsh

They fixed it with Dwayna outfit. You should buy it.

They used to have hair drawn on with hats at release that seemed to work fine. I don’t know why they changed it

Arobain.8274:

So apparently everytime someone puts on a hat, our hair completely disappears, this really just makes players not want to wear said hats, for example, the ringmasters hat is cool, but my asura loses his great hair when i put it on, i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

The “it’s not that difficult” comment… have you ever tried to do it? Have you ever seen it done well in some game, namely one with this game’s level of graphics?

To do it they’d have to somehow block out just the hair that would clip, well then we move, so that changes.

It’s not so easy.

Jerus.4350:

Arobain.8274:

So apparently everytime someone puts on a hat, our hair completely disappears, this really just makes players not want to wear said hats, for example, the ringmasters hat is cool, but my asura loses his great hair when i put it on, i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

The “it’s not that difficult” comment… have you ever tried to do it? Have you ever seen it done well in some game, namely one with this game’s level of graphics?

To do it they’d have to somehow block out just the hair that would clip, well then we move, so that changes.

It’s not so easy.

well, Team Fortress 2, Skyrim, Lord of the rings online ( with some hats ) and my friend that knows about mmo making, assured me that its not too difficult

“It’s not that difficult.”

Each headgear item is a seperate object in the game as is each hair-style. Each object must be created seperately by a modeler. Once hair is involved, each peice of headgear must have a seperate hair model created for each hairstyle… for each race. Discounting the number of peices that have no effect or are complete covers you still have a large number.

2 sexes X 5 races X 12 hairstyles(or more) X n armor styles. I’ll let someone else actually do the math but I hope you can see why it’s easier for the characters to be bald.

Jerus.4350:

Arobain.8274:

So apparently everytime someone puts on a hat, our hair completely disappears, this really just makes players not want to wear said hats, for example, the ringmasters hat is cool, but my asura loses his great hair when i put it on, i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

The “it’s not that difficult” comment… have you ever tried to do it? Have you ever seen it done well in some game, namely one with this game’s level of graphics?

To do it they’d have to somehow block out just the hair that would clip, well then we move, so that changes.

It’s not so easy.

Vindictus, Aeon, Tera, even SWTOR. And Black Desert, Blade & Soul, Bless, Kingdom Under Fire 2, and many upcoming/possible releases also do this without issue.

Jerus.4350:

Arobain.8274:

So apparently everytime someone puts on a hat, our hair completely disappears, this really just makes players not want to wear said hats, for example, the ringmasters hat is cool, but my asura loses his great hair when i put it on, i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

The “it’s not that difficult” comment… have you ever tried to do it? Have you ever seen it done well in some game, namely one with this game’s level of graphics?

If I’m not mistaken, FF14 doesn’t have this issue and the graphics there are much higher than GW2.

As someone who has some form of 3d modelling experience, I can say it doesn’t seem as if it should be that hard.

Create a parameter that only affects the hair, and create a void mass surrounding the headpiece in the area you want to clip (namely from the inside face of the headpiece out) then lock that mass to the headpiece itself, so that when the headpiece is resized for whatever reason, the void shifts with it. Whatever hair doesn’t fall within that void still shows.

Now I don’t know what modelling program they use, but this seems to be well within reason.

Yet if it was that easy they wouldn’t design hats that have parts that hang around the back and sides to hide the fact you now have no hair.

Remember character models using armor are built on the fly when needed.

Kind of ironic in a game all about cosmetic progression that they have one of the most hideously cosmetic displeasing things you can have in a game when you wear a hat.

It wouldn’t be so bad if they just gave us a few default or very basic hair styles that would work with all hats.

How it could work is next to the headgear slot there is a button that we click to “open hair styles for hats”. Doing so would preview the hat and give us a few basic hair options. All they would need to keep from our already chosen hair style would be the colour.

If Anet can’t figure out what I mean, go play sims 3, create a char and choose a hat and you will see what I mean as they give a few hair options per hat. :P

I wouldn’t say that Anet has been “lazy” as such over this issue up to this point more like not so motivated or willing to spend the resources there perhaps. Well, now people are asking for such things more and more and more hat items coming to the gem store perhaps its time they look at addressing it? It could mean more sales for them so that should be incentive enough now. I know I would start to buy more hat items as I have been tempted lately but the no hair has been a real issue there.

Prototypemind.4026:

Jerus.4350:

Arobain.8274:

So apparently everytime someone puts on a hat, our hair completely disappears, this really just makes players not want to wear said hats, for example, the ringmasters hat is cool, but my asura loses his great hair when i put it on, i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

The “it’s not that difficult” comment… have you ever tried to do it? Have you ever seen it done well in some game, namely one with this game’s level of graphics?

To do it they’d have to somehow block out just the hair that would clip, well then we move, so that changes.

It’s not so easy.

Vindictus, Aeon, Tera, even SWTOR. And Black Desert, Blade & Soul, Bless, Kingdom Under Fire 2, and many upcoming/possible releases also do this without issue.

SWTOR does not do it without issue. SWTOR does bald which is why I will never put hats on my characters.

Jerus.4350:

The “it’s not that difficult” comment… have you ever tried to do it? Have you ever seen it done well in some game, namely one with this game’s level of graphics?

You’re acting like this game is something impressive to look at.

Arobain.8274:

i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

You couldn’t be any more wrong.
Put a hat over a hair model without changing the hair is almost impossible, or you’ll get terrible clippings at best.
Change the hair based on the hat that is covering is an amount of work you can’t imagine, the simplest solution would be to make a different hair model for each hat for each hair model, for example, if there was 6 hats that makes the head bold you would need to make 6 new hair models for every possible hair in the game.

This video is the only thing that came to mind when I read the title.

Westwater.1095:

Jerus.4350:

The “it’s not that difficult” comment… have you ever tried to do it? Have you ever seen it done well in some game, namely one with this game’s level of graphics?

You’re acting like this game is something impressive to look at.

It’s not quality I was talking about, or not mainly, it’s that we have a decent level of diversity and a non cartoonish/blocky graphics. It would take a system that can intelligently alter the hair only at the points it needs to be. With how much clipping we have here, well it’s obvious they don’t have a system and I stand by the idea that it’d surely not be an easy task.

I am impressed so many games have done it, I wouldn’t count TF2 in there though because it’s not that level of graphics, mentioning to give an example of what I was talking about. Not surprised on Black Desert either, that game is going to be beautiful.

Belzebu.3912:

Arobain.8274:

i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

You couldn’t be any more wrong.
Put a hat over a hair model without changing the hair is almost impossible, or you’ll get terrible clippings at best.
Change the hair based on the hat that is covering is an amount of work you can’t imagine, the simplest solution would be to make a different hair model for each hat for each hair model, for example, if there was 6 hats that makes the head bold you would need to make 6 new hair models for every possible hair in the game.

Just 1 hair model per hat would work for each race/gender. As long as you can see hair under the hat. The baldness is weird as hell. Try putting the celebration hat or whatever its called on, you look like kitten patient trying to hide your baldness with a baseball cap.

Easiest fix would be to make two ‘hat hair’ models
- short hair
- long hair

When you put a hat on it uses the hat hair model which just has the hair tucked up under or removes bangs/ponytails/etc. Use the color of the default hair and you’re done. All they’d need to do is add a tag/label to each hair style (long/short) that toggles the appropriate short/long hair model when a hat is on.

10 models (long/short for each race) – 1 week of work
Implementing tagging of existing hair models – 1 day
Implementing programming to toggle – like 1 week~

Seeing as this has always clipped beards since before day one, you should not hold your breath for anything to happen :P

Yeah, I really think people should drop the :
“Can’t you imagine how difficult it is”, “Why don’t you try doing it yourself”
arguments.

It’s not OUR job to provide decent content, or to find a solution for it.
Putting hair underneath the hats has been done and is still done by MANY mmorpgs. And MANY pulled it out satisfyingly. I won’t make the list as it has already been done in this thread (and I’m sure there are other examples not mentioned).
Clipping problems ? That’s a false excuse considering all the already existing clipping problems that haven’t been adressed so far.

JNetRocks.3652:

10 models (long/short for each race) – 1 week of work

So 4 hours to do all the hats/helms in game per race/hair length? What’s that, like 5 minutes each?

I can understand with hair issues on the head models.
Each helmet covers a certain amount of the head, so for each race/hairstyle and helmet, you’d have to make sure the clipping doesn’t occur between the items position on the head and the hair’s shape and bulkiness. I haven’t a clue how long that’d take to complete. I haven’t done modelling in a while since KotOR 2. -.-

You could c lone a few of the non-unique hair pieces (short, medium, long, ponytail) to use as alternative hair models (that are used once helms are equipped). You’d be better off removing certain areas of the upper hair that is often unseen while an item is equipped, to avoid clipping.

I am kinda surprised this hasn’t been done at some point by their game devs, but I guess time is not easily spared lately.

Tabootrinket.2631:

Yeah, I really think people should drop the :
“Can’t you imagine how difficult it is”, “Why don’t you try doing it yourself”
arguments.

Lol it isn’t even “hard” within the scope of the skill set needed to model the hair in the first place.

All it requires is more manhours of work to model out hairs for each helmet.
It’s a significantly easier thing to pull off than making dynamic capes work on hunched over Charr.

Asura are kinda safe from this for the most part, since they look most natural bald. The rest…yeah.

Doesn’t this issue tie into why we can’t have capes anymore? Something about clipping being Anets worst nightmare?

Gotejjeken.1267:

Asura are kinda safe from this for the most part, since they look most natural bald. The rest…yeah.

Doesn’t this issue tie into why we can’t have capes anymore? Something about clipping being Anets worst nightmare?

The major problem with capes is the most practical way to implement them is with a dynamics system similar to what you can see in the game with things that have dangley bits like ribbons or tassels. The Winter’ Day toy daggers are a great example.

This would normally not be an issue and wasn’t in GW1. The cape would just hang straight down in a resting, static pose. No muss, no fuss. There might be some clipping with some armors that jut out, but that would be the extent of it.

The problem arises when you realize the Charr don’t stand in a perfect humanoid pose. They are severely hunched over with a good portion of their back almost parallel to the ground plane. This creates a major issue because now the capes need to be able to flow like simulated cloth but still come to a resting pose on the back of the Charr in a way that looks natural. This is something that would almost certainly require collision detection, something they don’t have turned on for any other dynamic object that I’ve seen. Not only is that more resource intensive, but the cape would almost certainly look like crap resting on a the wide range of armor meshes that a Charr can wear without a very high poly count which just ramps up the power needed to make it all work.

Essentially, they can pull it off from a technical perspective but it will probably not look good at all. If they release capes the amount of clipping will just cause a flood of “why’s my cape clipping/glitching?” or “why does my cape look like crap? I paid $10 for this!” threads.

For a great example of how fidgety real time dynamics are in a game environment, go play around in a Bethesda game or any other that makes heavy use of the Havok Engine.

Basically they can’t win either way.

Dinks.2478:

Belzebu.3912:

Arobain.8274:

i’m sure this isn’t that difficult to do so the hair stays where the hat doesn’t touch or something?

You couldn’t be any more wrong.
Put a hat over a hair model without changing the hair is almost impossible, or you’ll get terrible clippings at best.
Change the hair based on the hat that is covering is an amount of work you can’t imagine, the simplest solution would be to make a different hair model for each hat for each hair model, for example, if there was 6 hats that makes the head bold you would need to make 6 new hair models for every possible hair in the game.

Just 1 hair model per hat would work for each race/gender. As long as you can see hair under the hat. The baldness is weird as hell. Try putting the celebration hat or whatever its called on, you look like kitten patient trying to hide your baldness with a baseball cap.

1 model wouldnt work at all. Particularly with Sylvari, what with people wanting to use that god awful mushroom head.

I would love they do something about the bald heads when wearing caps or helmets or something, but I would rather they fix critical bugs first above all else.

However, if other MMO’s don’t have this problem, I don’t see why it can’t be address. Probably a resource not enough situation.

SirDrygan.1823:

I would love they do something about the bald heads when wearing caps or helmets or something, but I would rather they fix critical bugs first above all else.

Unless it is graphical bugs, the same people who would work on hat hair, usually aren’t the same people who fix bugs.

The difficulty of this depends really on how GW2 is made, if they can do scaling and layers in regards to head peices it shouldn’t be that hard. If they have to manually create each model then yes it would be time consuming. However as others have stated there is a simple middle ground if the latter is true, just making a long/short version for each race and be done with it would be much better than the current baldness.

Its interesting that GW2’s business model relies heavily on cosmetics, yet they seem to skimp on it any chance they can get.

You think you have problems with baldness? At least two of my Charr lose their horns when helmets and certain other items are placed on the head. I appreciate that this is a game mechanic and rendering issue, but if a Charr has some tremendously large and ornate horns surely they count as major body parts and well … vanishing as they do makes the character change significantly.

Besides, and as one of my characters is fond of mentioning, “I’ve always been suspicious of warriors who wear helmets … for it suggests that they’re worried about having their heads caved in.” (and yes, that’s intended as observational comedy).

Behellagh.1468:

So 4 hours to do all the hats/helms in game per race/hair length? What’s that, like 5 minutes each?

Sorry, to be more clear I meant have two models per race total.
- Short tucked hair.
- Long tucked hair.

Not per hat! That would be… a lot of stuff. Just doing short/long tucked hair per race is only 10 models for the entire game and would at least give us -something-. I have a degree in game art & design and have worked on several hair models. 10 models like this wouldn’t take more than a few days, especially since they are designed to be under hats and won’t be fully shown. Doesn’t need a lot of details or physics.

Programming implementation can be a little more complex but they already have a check for when a hat is equipped that hides the default hair. All they would need to do is add a check “was that hair short or long” and SHOW the appropriate hat hair underneath the hat. It’s literally like 10~ lines of code.

I think the most time consuming part would be implementing a way to determine whether they should show short or long hair model. Need to tag each hair style as short or long.

ArchieD.6972:

As someone who has some form of 3d modelling experience, I can say it doesn’t seem as if it should be that hard.
/snip
Now I don’t know what modelling program they use, but this seems to be well within reason.

Then why not just revert to the old method of drawing hair on the scalp texture, like we had few years ago? I know it’s not quite the same, but it made a difference.

JNetRocks.3652:

Not per hat! That would be… a lot of stuff. Just doing short/long tucked hair per race is only 10 models for the entire game and would at least give us -something-.

You… do realize that’d work for only 4 of the 5 races, right? Sylvari hair isnt actually hair you know.

Honestly, it doesn’t matter how difficult it is, it needs to be done. It’s the job of those who do the modeling to produce something pleasing for players, and losing you locks every time you don a hat isn’t pleasing anyone. It happens in other games, it needs to happen here.