Guild Wars 2

As opposed to people who would be fine if they made you play for 4 years to get the item? With some I’ve noticed they could demand your first born and you’d say something like “well the content isn’t Free you know we all must make sacrifices in order to play so they get compensated for their work” <.>

Anyone else notice this? Doesn’t matter the power creep, doesn’t matter the RNG algorithms from 1999 for essential materials for crafting… there can be no wrong doings in the eyes of people like this. When does it become too much I wonder? Other titles have far far better systems of advancement than this and require a certain minimum yes however they don’t double and triple the cost of gear pieces as they put them out just to delay the players advancement and keep them logged in, not like this they don’t.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Fingolfin.7451:

So they add content based on the guys that log in and spend 4 hours a day to do all the achievements of the game!
And what about the 12k gap between the previous piece of armor and that one?That doesn’t make any sense.
The ammount of AP is just absurb considering that there are 2 armor pieces left.

It gives you a goal. Something tells me you will be able to live without it until then. The problem I see with a lot of people on these forums is the, “It’s there. I should be able to get it right now!” mentality. Long term goals are good.

I think the Hellfire Skin looks kinda cool, so I picked the radiant one at 3k ap to prevent me from ever trying to grind this stuff.

I have 6.5k ap right now.

I am happy.

And lol @ EARN -ing them. If I want to earn something, I wouldn’t play a Computer Game in the first place.

I have 11k of AP. I’d take me more than year of doing all the dailies, everyday. 2 years to get the other piece.
That’s not a long term goal. Even work gives you a day off.

RedStar.4218:

I have 11k of AP. I’d take me more than year of doing all the dailies, everyday. 2 years to get the other piece.
That’s not a long term goal. Even work gives you a day off.

I agree. I am sitting at about 8k ish AP and I really couldn’t care about the skins, or AP for that matter

Boots! Have we had boots before? Gloves, head-gear – even shoulders, lot’s of ’em, but now boots!

I think it’s awesome. Doesn’t phase me that it’s far off for me.

lordkrall.7241:

How is the gap way too big?
It is the exactly same amount of APs that there is between the other Hellfire/Radiant skins.

No, there’s a 3k gap between hellfire/radiant skins. But on 12k, 15k and 18k you get repeats, so if you are interested in one version only you suddenly get a 12k gap between first 3 pieces and a 4th.

lordkrall.7241:

I do wonder how people that talk about adding it to the 12k tier thinks.

How would that work for people (it is rather many by now) that have already gotten past 12k and already gotten the reward.

Rumborak.7815:

Just make Hellfire/Radiant like the Zenith weapons. Every 3k we are able to choose between all set items actually implementet. So no retroactively rewards needed.

That way. Or, if you think that would be too good (and people would start with chest and leggings at 3 and 6k), then make the locations unlock per 3k, and allow choosing only from unlocked locations.

Astralporing.1957:

lordkrall.7241:

How is the gap way too big?
It is the exactly same amount of APs that there is between the other Hellfire/Radiant skins.

No, there’s a 3k gap between hellfire/radiant skins. But on 12k, 15k and 18k you get repeats, so if you are interested in one version only you suddenly get a 12k gap between first 3 pieces and a 4th.

lordkrall.7241:

I do wonder how people that talk about adding it to the 12k tier thinks.

How would that work for people (it is rather many by now) that have already gotten past 12k and already gotten the reward.

Rumborak.7815:

Just make Hellfire/Radiant like the Zenith weapons. Every 3k we are able to choose between all set items actually implementet. So no retroactively rewards needed.

That way. Or, if you think that would be too good (and people would start with chest and leggings at 3 and 6k), then make the locations unlock per 3k, and allow choosing only from unlocked locations.

something like this needs to be done. And they really need an expansion because there is just not enough achievement points to warrant what they are asking. As of right now its just another kitten meter of how long someone can go with out burning out.

21k is fair.
19.3k AP atm here

Malediktus.9250:

21k is fair.
19.3k AP atm here

I don’t see how that helps your case at all. You basically said “It’s alright for me! I can get it tomorrow!”

I posted my thoughts here. Most people said I was crazy to have them earlier in the AP ladder. Looks like most people agree with me. 21k is to much.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/edgeofthemists/New-Radiant-Hellfire-Greaves/first#post3594028

Gotta be something to aim for…

The sheer number of PvE heroes and “AP Hunters” in this thread gives me a headache.

Im not being funny but by the time anyone has grinded out 50k AP for a full set of these skins taking 3+ years, theres bound to have been a lot cooler skins in the gem store over that length of time.
So realy whats the point

ArchonWing.9480:

Gotta be something to aim for…

True, but short obtainable goals often drive players to play more frequent. Where long goals have no effect on a persons urgency. If people always think they are close to something they want they will play more.

If people are playing more there is even more of a chance they will buy gems when the end goal for any company is to make money. People will lose interest in items they feel they can never get.

Adding items for achievement farmers which is a small percentage of the population in my opinion was not a sound business decision on their part. I would aim for the middle of the pack on items so people feel like they still need to work but its in reach.

One other outside point is why loop through the two sets gloves, shoulders, helm before you hit boots? Boots should be next in line. If you wanted both sets you should start that at 21k.

Darkobra.6439:

Malediktus.9250:

21k is fair.
19.3k AP atm here

I don’t see how that helps your case at all. You basically said “It’s alright for me! I can get it tomorrow!”

Blame Anets temporary achievement system, living story, daily and monthly. You can get like 1000 points per month from those.

I only got to 14k AP recently, working towards 15k. I’m not as hardcore as other players, so 20k+ isn’t so unimaginable. All the people who complain are basically falling into the “Entitlement” trap. They want things given to them as quickly and as easy as possible.

Excursion.9752:

ArchonWing.9480:

Gotta be something to aim for…

True, but short obtainable goals often drive players to play more frequent. Where long goals have no effect on a persons urgency. If people always think they are close to something they want they will play more.

If people are playing more there is even more of a chance they will buy gems when the end goal for any company is to make money. People will lose interest in items they feel they can never get.

Adding items for achievement farmers which is a small percentage of the population in my opinion was not a sound business decision on their part. I would aim for the middle of the pack on items so people feel like they still need to work but its in reach.

One other outside point is why loop through the two sets gloves, shoulders, helm before you hit boots? Boots should be next in line. If you wanted both sets you should start that at 21k.

There are chests available every 500 APs. I’d say they’ve got the short term goals covered. Stop pretending they don’t.

I think a better solution to this would have been to include the boots at 12k and then to give them automatically to players past that point. Even if it means the people past it get extra stuff, it would at least have these at a reasonable point for newer players. As it stands, there simply aren’t enough permanent achievements to justify a cost of 21k for something like a pair of boots. It really isn’t about entitlement, it’s about consistency and the realism of reward schemes versus time investment.

I say all of this as someone close to my 15k chest.

I hope they understand which I don’t think they do if you put the carrot to far out on the stick people will lose interest.

I am not even sure what there thinking with garbage yes garbage like this. It’s like the Halloween event where it required like 40k candy corn to get a mini or something. The numbers where just ridiculous unless you bought the material to get it.

Really if you sit down and think about it the game really is P2W… I like to see if there are even 100 people in the entire game who have literately farmed every single piece of there legendary. Buying nothing but the Icy Runestones and Recipes with gold. I bet there isn’t even 10.

I hope they understand by making the carrot so far out of reach they bring down the value of the game tremendously.

I agree that you should be able to pick whichever of the sets as milestones as you progress. My only problem with the rediculously high AP cost for this item is that it requires me to pick the other (in my case firey set) in the mean time while i climb up the ranks to get the boots. I have no intention of using the firey set so its a MASSIVE gap between getting the helm and getting the next piece in the set. Eventually im sure they will come out with chests/pants, and thats where i see these pieces falling into place ~20-25k.

Not complaining, this is a cool add in for achievement based rewards, but the massive gap in between the set pieces for anybody really makes it hard to be excited or motivated to climb that massive achievement ladder.

angelpaladin.7921:

I hope they understand which I don’t think they do if you put the carrot to far out on the stick people will lose interest.

I am not even sure what there thinking with garbage yes garbage like this. It’s like the Halloween event where it required like 40k candy corn to get a mini or something. The numbers where just ridiculous unless you bought the material to get it.

Really if you sit down and think about it the game really is P2W… I like to see if there are even 100 people in the entire game who have literately farmed every single piece of there legendary. Buying nothing but the Icy Runestones and Recipes with gold. I bet there isn’t even 10.

I hope they understand by making the carrot so far out of reach they bring down the value of the game tremendously.

I didn’t think the “P2W” conspiracy theorists could possibly bring that argument into this thread. I guess I was wrong.

/clears throat

Unfortunately, you have no idea what Pay 2 Win means. You’re taking a term that has a perceived negative aspect to it, and have incorrectly attributed it to this game because you’re unhappy about something. But don’t worry, maybe around this weekend I’ll be making a post to educate the masses on what P2W really is. That’ll help you understand that throwing around that term is as silly as fishing with your big toe as bait.

DarcShriek.5829:

Excursion.9752:

ArchonWing.9480:

Gotta be something to aim for…

True, but short obtainable goals often drive players to play more frequent. Where long goals have no effect on a persons urgency. If people always think they are close to something they want they will play more.

If people are playing more there is even more of a chance they will buy gems when the end goal for any company is to make money. People will lose interest in items they feel they can never get.

Adding items for achievement farmers which is a small percentage of the population in my opinion was not a sound business decision on their part. I would aim for the middle of the pack on items so people feel like they still need to work but its in reach.

One other outside point is why loop through the two sets gloves, shoulders, helm before you hit boots? Boots should be next in line. If you wanted both sets you should start that at 21k.

There are chests available every 500 APs. I’d say they’ve got the short term goals covered. Stop pretending they don’t.

We are talking about armor skins not chests or weapon skins. I didn’t think that I had to be that specific but I guess I was wrong.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I think a better solution to this would have been to include the boots at 12k and then to give them automatically to players past that point. Even if it means the people past it get extra stuff, it would at least have these at a reasonable point for newer players. As it stands, there simply aren’t enough permanent achievements to justify a cost of 21k for something like a pair of boots. It really isn’t about entitlement, it’s about consistency and the realism of reward schemes versus time investment.

I say all of this as someone close to my 15k chest.

With all due respect mate, the AP armor set could be seen as a long term, end game goal. Much like people who got their 50/50 HoM achievement, this goal will take time. There’s no way to quickly farm AP since they nerfed the salvage achievement with a cap. So if you see someone with the full set in the future, you know they earned it.

Yes new players are left behind, since you can’t get AP from old events and stories. Just as they don’t have as much money as us from playing over the past year+. Same goes with SPvP or WvW ranks. Anyone new has to learn to crawl before they can run with the big dogs.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

With all due respect mate, the AP armor set could be seen as a long term, end game goal. Much like people who got their 50/50 HoM achievement, this goal will take time. There’s no way to quickly farm AP since they nerfed the salvage achievement with a cap. So if you see someone with the full set in the future, you know they earned it.

Yes new players are left behind, since you can’t get AP from old events and stories. Just as they don’t have as much money as us from playing over the past year+. Same goes with SPvP or WvW ranks. Anyone new has to learn to crawl before they can run with the big dogs.

Yeah, I agree that newer players have a lot of work to catch up, and that’s okay. I don’t think having the boots at 12k belittles the ‘earning’ that was done to get that AP. You still had to earn that, and 12k is no walk in the park. That said, 20k AP when there is scarcely 4k AP available from permanent achievements (not counting LS, which gets lumped into permanent achievements but aren’t really permanent) feels more like a grind than earning it. Doing all dailies every day doesn’t take real skill, it just takes time. If there were way more permanent AP available for skillful pursuits, I’d take no issue with this, but there isn’t.

My concern is also that the progression doesn’t make sense and creates unnecessary barriers. If you want the “Radiant set” you have 3k for gloves, 6k for shoulders, 9k for helmet, and then… 21k for boots? Being forced to take Hellfire stuff, which you may not want, before you can get your Radiant boots is pretty rough. I definitely think these things should be earned through rigorous AP acquisition, but I think a proper reward scheme wouldn’t force players to take both sets of gloves/shoulders/helmets before they get to their first access to boots. You know what I mean? I’m trying to approach this more from a ‘proper design’ standpoint here.

I mean, I’ll get these boots eventually. It doesn’t really bother me personally, I just don’t think the currently implemented design is fair or logical for others who really want them. It’s one thing to have rewards for players who put in a lot of time, but those rewards still have to make sense (in my opinion). I mean, consider the extreme example where almost the entire Radiant set can be acquired by 15k, but then the helmet is only first available at 100k AP. That would raise some red flags for you, right?

I dont get the fuss about it here. In worst case it will take 36k AP to have full radiant and hellfire armor set. The first people will definatly have that in a year tops.

spoj.9672:

Both sets are hideous. I see no problem here.

I been wanting a Full Radiant set mainly so I can escape the tormenting horror of Medium armor~ Heavy armor is often the best looking and many heavy sets aren’t even heavy-looking and shoulda been medium in first place. ;/

All i see in this forum “why ascended is so hard to get,make it easier”,“why don’t i start with my alt at lvl 80 have all skills etc.” why don’t i have all the hellfire/radiant at 1 ap".You guys have to stop asking for this stuff to be easy / fast,to get what you want you work for them.

ArchonWing.9480:

Gotta be something to aim for…

5 years plans work only in Communism (well, in thuth they didn’t work there as well). People tend to plan for things that seem to be within their reach. If it’s too far away, then it as well might not be there at all, because it will not influence player’s behaviour even a tiny bit.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

angelpaladin.7921:

I hope they understand which I don’t think they do if you put the carrot to far out on the stick people will lose interest.

I am not even sure what there thinking with garbage yes garbage like this. It’s like the Halloween event where it required like 40k candy corn to get a mini or something. The numbers where just ridiculous unless you bought the material to get it.

Really if you sit down and think about it the game really is P2W… I like to see if there are even 100 people in the entire game who have literately farmed every single piece of there legendary. Buying nothing but the Icy Runestones and Recipes with gold. I bet there isn’t even 10.

I hope they understand by making the carrot so far out of reach they bring down the value of the game tremendously.

I didn’t think the “P2W” conspiracy theorists could possibly bring that argument into this thread. I guess I was wrong.

/clears throat

Unfortunately, you have no idea what Pay 2 Win means. You’re taking a term that has a perceived negative aspect to it, and have incorrectly attributed it to this game because you’re unhappy about something. But don’t worry, maybe around this weekend I’ll be making a post to educate the masses on what P2W really is. That’ll help you understand that throwing around that term is as silly as fishing with your big toe as bait.

I think your just extremely closed minded and cant think out side of the small box you have setup for your self. Why dont you try thinking outside that box and maybe what I am about to say will make more since to you.

Pay = give (someone) money that is due for work done, goods received, or a debt incurred.

To = approaching or reaching (a particular condition).

Win = be successful or victorious in (a contest or conflict).

(all definitions where gotten from goggle)

The reasons I decided to post definitions of the words P2W is simple. To help broaden the realm of peoples understanding that P2W does not necessarily mean paying real money for virtual items. In fact no where in the definition of Pay can we find anything about real world transactions.

In fact the only thing we see is the word money (a current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively) used.

In this case the P2W system I speak of is the fact that a large sum of items in the game are impossible to get with out some type of monetary medium (gold) being exchanged between multiple players thus making the game a Pay2Win system.

This same system was used to ill effect in Diablo 3. Where drop rates on gear where extremely low. This made the only logic way to progress in the game the AH. The game pretty much died off after the first few months because of this system.

I truly hope I have helped broaden your understanding of what words can mean and how they can truly hold more meanings then just the one people choose to associate with them commonly.

There’s a whole list of cosmetic skins that I’ll never have since they require working at GW1 for hours, days, weeks, and probably months.

This is just another incentive that won’t impact me or influence my behavior. I’m about 30 points shy of 10k AP. I’m not planning to more than double that number anytime soon.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

With all due respect mate, the AP armor set could be seen as a long term, end game goal. Much like people who got their 50/50 HoM achievement, this goal will take time. There’s no way to quickly farm AP since they nerfed the salvage achievement with a cap. So if you see someone with the full set in the future, you know they earned it.

Yes new players are left behind, since you can’t get AP from old events and stories. Just as they don’t have as much money as us from playing over the past year+. Same goes with SPvP or WvW ranks. Anyone new has to learn to crawl before they can run with the big dogs.

Yeah, I agree that newer players have a lot of work to catch up, and that’s okay. I don’t think having the boots at 12k belittles the ‘earning’ that was done to get that AP. You still had to earn that, and 12k is no walk in the park. That said, 20k AP when there is scarcely 4k AP available from permanent achievements (not counting LS, which gets lumped into permanent achievements but aren’t really permanent) feels more like a grind than earning it. Doing all dailies every day doesn’t take real skill, it just takes time. If there were way more permanent AP available for skillful pursuits, I’d take no issue with this, but there isn’t.

My concern is also that the progression doesn’t make sense and creates unnecessary barriers. If you want the “Radiant set” you have 3k for gloves, 6k for shoulders, 9k for helmet, and then… 21k for boots? Being forced to take Hellfire stuff, which you may not want, before you can get your Radiant boots is pretty rough. I definitely think these things should be earned through rigorous AP acquisition, but I think a proper reward scheme wouldn’t force players to take both sets of gloves/shoulders/helmets before they get to their first access to boots. You know what I mean? I’m trying to approach this more from a ‘proper design’ standpoint here.

I mean, I’ll get these boots eventually. It doesn’t really bother me personally, I just don’t think the currently implemented design is fair or logical for others who really want them. It’s one thing to have rewards for players who put in a lot of time, but those rewards still have to make sense (in my opinion). I mean, consider the extreme example where almost the entire Radiant set can be acquired by 15k, but then the helmet is only first available at 100k AP. That would raise some red flags for you, right?

The way I see it, 3 or 4 years after this game was released, 20k AP won’t seem like much. I’m looking at this from the prospective of really long term, over the life span of the game itself. Kinda like GW1 HoH ranks, where only a handful of players ever reached Rank 15 (Dragon emote). The full set of AP armor could be the status symbol of GW2. (*yes I know one requires more skill than time invested)

Kibazuka.1390:

haha, long term goal. A long term goal only makes sense when its realistic.

Lets say you get the boots at 21 and 24k and then pants at 27 and chest at 30 because that number makes at least any kind of sense. If i would be a new player and finally gettin my 3k along with the gloves and i would be like “nice gloves i want that set, wonder how many points i need for the full one?” and then see 30k “oh wow thats only time gated behind 3 years+ excessive grind” well yeah.. That isnt exactly encouraging in any way to say the least and i for sure wouldnt get pumped up to get the game playin and the achievements done.

It makes perfect sense when you look at it from ANet’s perspective. They intend for us to play this game for years. Therefore, having a long-term goal that also stretches into a similar time span is appropriate.

They also have to take into account that their leaderboard players are already approaching these high AP scores, so they have to stretch the goals out in front of the front-runners, too.

If you don’t like picking up achievement points, then this isn’t a goal to set for yourself, but that doesn’t make it a less reasonable goal for someone who does enjoy achievement hunting.

Whatever? It will be quite the thing to see people with them. Not even mad.

I also just want to say this:

I love achievements and hunting AP in general, but I hate grinding dailies/monthlies for AP. Those feel like a grind. ANet really needs to put some effort into adding a lot of new, permanent achievements that take a significant amount of skill and reward a significant amount of AP. Something like SAB TM in terms of rewards, but that sticks around and can be done whenever.

Nike.2631:

There’s a whole list of cosmetic skins that I’ll never have since they require working at GW1 for hours, days, weeks, and probably months.

Difference is, if tomorrow you wake up and desire to get those skins no matter the time and effort you need, it can be done as fast as you are willing to play (and pay for the games).

If tomorrow I want to go after those boots (and soon, the rest of the set), I’d have to wake up every morning for more than a year and say “well time to do all the dailies”. Each day I don’t do them, is a day I add to the grind.
In a year from now there’s barely going to be 1000 players on NA who will have unlocked those boots.

There is no problem with introducing it later. Players past 12k just get too choose and get their gloves riped off if they choose the boots instead.
The biggest problem that i have with the current system is that its way to less skins spreaded over way too many points (and with that: Years). Two armor sets and one weapon sets is just not justified for 3 years worth of playtime.
That was my biggest fear when they introduced ap rewards. That they have only this much and when they finally choose to expand on it they dont think enough and just slap it on the loose end where they cant squeeze the existing rewards anymore.
The average player has interest in 3-5 zenith skins at best. So you basically choose the zenith skins you may want and the first 3 pieces of your armor until you get to 9k and then you have these huge 10+k where you only get the garbage you didnt want before. And i bet they let us have every bloody last piece of zenith before letting us choose a new weapon type too.
There is nothing wrong with some prestigious skins only rewarded at very very high ap, but there has to be a constant stream of meaningful rewards.
There is also not enough different theme in the skins. You better like one of the 3 current themes if not… well thats too bad but you may like the themes after these.. starting at 40k ap
Sure a full weapon set and two half armor sets sound good when its only a living story patch but the reward system would have been way better off introduced later but polished, finished and big enough in an likewise big content patch… like an expansion or expansion-like patch.
Part of why Expansion > Living Story patches.

They need more permanent AP sources, I have to agree.

Right now you have little beyond dailies. And missing those puts you waaaaaaaay behind to a ridiculous degree.

lordkrall.7241:

How is the gap way too big?
It is the exactly same amount of APs that there is between the other Hellfire/Radiant skins.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hellfire_Vambraces_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hellfire_Mantle_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hellfire_Warhelm_Skin

Thats great that those people have so much free time to grind AP, but most of us will not achieve that amount in the next year.

While I still don’t see an issue with the Hellfire/Radiant armor set being the “ultimate” indicator of someone who’s spent years playing GW2, I do agree that putting the Boots in as a 12k option seems fair. If somebody doesn’t like one set or the other, they shouldn’t be forced to get the Helm/Shoulders/Arms of the other set before continuing the collection they DO like.

I still think it would have been handled better like I said yesterday:

Millillion.5914:

It’s a little complicated, but they could change it so that:

3k is choice of gloves
6k is choice of mantle OR the gloves you didn’t choose
9k is choice of helm OR anything you haven’t chosen from earlier tiers
12k is choice of boots OR anything else

Past that, there would be no set tiers, just picking what you hadn’t already.

Then they could just let everybody re-pick what they want and still keep the most people happy. Also, people would have more choice for skipping things they don’t want.

This is what happens when you don’t design the whole set when you release it. kitten .

eu have 9 ppl at 20k, 0 at 21k

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Fingolfin.7451:

So they add content based on the guys that log in and spend 4 hours a day to do all the achievements of the game!

If you want that armor piece, then work hard to get it. Players aren’t Entitled to getting everything they want. Sometimes you have to EARN it.

You don’t need to work hard, the tasks you have to do are tedious and require little-to-no effort. All I see is another MASSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE grind for a single pair of boots.

Well this just confirms GW2 is left to the unskilled. Especially considering earlier someone said that this is the same as getting the dragon rank in GW1.

Time to go game hunting!

Long term rewards are excellent, nothing wrong with that. Though I do think it’s odd that you get the first three pieces of set A, then the first three pieces of set B, after which you get the boots (if I understand it correctly). It would make more sense if you would earn the sets one after another.

I was amazed looking at those leaderboards, I mean .. people have 20K? That’s insane! :P I mean, I’ve played since release and I have just a bit over 7K! My mind is thoroughly boggled, I never realized the gap was -that- large!