Guild Wars 2

Just think of WoW but without the raids and with a huge war going on between three servers, and ask yourself the same question again.

RE: “How to Play…” and recent changes to speed clears in dungeons:

Per Robert Hrouda, Content Designer:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Updates/page/16#post190414

“Hey folks,

I figured it was already posted on this thread, but in the case that it is not posted and/or lost in the threadnaught, I am going to reiterate something that seemed to surprise people in another thread.

The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible"

Bazinga.

/15chars

edit: for unfortunate placement of the g when I wrote that originally.

Hurray for more people trying to defend this system because they want everyone to be like just like them. You people defending the code have ridiculous and quite blasphemous arguments – most of them don’t even have bearing in reality. You claim to go do map explore, craft your exotics, or do explore dungeons? What about those (and soon to be many, many more) who have already 100% world complete, all their exotics, etc done? I absolutely love this game, I want to make a legendary and farm the cool looking exotics. You can’t tell me I can’t farm one area because it’s not how -you- would play, this isn’t a debate about how much opinion you get to have on what other legitimate players can do. Let me play how I want to play, and if I so choose to farm one area, so be it – add a captcha and I’ll happily type it in every 30 minutes. Once again, anti-bot mechanics should not have a negative effect on legitimate players…no matter what the mechanic is.

To naysayers – you just wait until you want some legendary weapon or awesome looking exotic and look at the materials when you get there, come back to me when you do get there and tell me the system is okay and we can chat from there.

Um.. Eden? The code they installed is being changed again as it’s not doing what they intended. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Updates/page/16#post190414

After thinking about it a bit more Debs I’m not entirely sure that’ll apply. It might since the systems work basically the same way, but I’m leaning towards that being specifically geared towards the Dungeon caps. As opposed to DE’s.

Ahh.. I hope it’s across the board as they seem related issues. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

Debsylvania.7396:

Um.. Eden? The code they installed is being changed again as it’s not doing what they intended. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Updates/page/16#post190414

I wasn’t referring to anything dungeon related, sorry if that wasn’t clear. I don’t mind the removal of speed clearing dungeons and making dungeons more difficult. I find that to be a positive change. Dungeons should be difficult and reward accordingly which is where they seem to be moving.

My post was 100% in regards to anti-bot coding in different zones – where if you receive X amount of loot in Y time, it puts you on a “No loot for you” timer for Z minutes. That system needs to go.

Tradewind.6913:

After thinking about it a bit more Debs I’m not entirely sure that’ll apply. It might since the systems work basically the same way, but I’m leaning towards that being specifically geared towards the Dungeon caps. As opposed to DE’s.

Yeah I am not seeing anything to suggest that this affects anything other than the dungeons. : /

Lysidian.4653:

Tradewind.6913:

After thinking about it a bit more Debs I’m not entirely sure that’ll apply. It might since the systems work basically the same way, but I’m leaning towards that being specifically geared towards the Dungeon caps. As opposed to DE’s.

Yeah I am not seeing anything to suggest that this affects anything other than the dungeons. : /

It -may- be connected since both were implemented simultaneously. It all depends on whether or not the dungeon rewards use the same subroutines as DE rewards, which is entirely possible because it makes no sense to have two subroutines to do what is essentially the same job of displaying and depositing completion rewards. The limitations may be part of that shared subroutine. So a tweak to one may affect both. That’s how I’d do it if it were me anyway.

Exactly. I quoted the post from the dev about it and asked for one of them to pop in the DE sub-forum and comment on DE’s but yet to see a single dev post in the DE sub-forum :S

A player asking game developers how they should play the game is a good indication of how out of touch this game has become. The game devs should be asking how we want to play, what we want in the game, what do we enjoy and how can it be better. Threads like these and the causes of them (the patch to dungeons) are nuisances.

I think it’s kind of hilarious that people have gotten so indoctrinated into the mentality of grinding and rushing through games using any loophole possible…that they actually, honestly don’t know how to play. Here’s a news flash… no MMORPG was really intended to be played that way. They just chose not to stop you from ruining your own experience for so long that you started thinking that actually WAS the experience.

Months and months ago, as I thought carefully about the game’s mechanics and their potential effect on the community…I figured that the game would really slow players down, get them exploring and feeling immersed, and get them enjoying the journey again, instead of just the extremely short-lived thrill of the meaningless never-ending ladder climbing sprint that most MMORPGs have been in the last decade. The bird seed those games drop every 10th time you peck the button doesn’t ever actually taste good…but maybe next time it will…

What I didn’t realize was exactly how resistant people would be to the reprogramming. It’s fairly astounding.

Want to know how to play a game? I’ll try to help. Stop looking for the fastest way to finish. Stop looking for the “best” everything. Stop looking at the numbers. Stop trying to shortcut or find the loopholes or game the system. If you KNOW that you got less experience this mob then you did on the last mob…you’re doing it wrong. Just play. The loot and levels and rewards will all flow naturally, and you’ll get a much longer, deeper, meaningful play experience. Maybe you’ll even find that you’re sticking around long enough to form server and game communities that are worthwhile and really add something to the game.

Play for fun… play because you enjoy the game play itself. Wander and explore and experience the stories and characters and the world for their own sake. Take pride in learning to play the combat really well (even when you don’t technically HAVE to), knowing your profession, etc. Help out other players just because it’s a nice and fun thing to do, and because paying it forward helps to create a better server community for you and everyone else.

If you don’t enjoy the game play, move on, because there’s no magical carrot at the end of the stick that is going to make it all worthwhile (there never really was in any game you played). This game IS the moment-to-moment game play that you experience just exploring and taking part in the world. It’s not some appetizer for 80 levels where you do things you don’t like in order to get to the “fun stuff”.

People complaining about anti-farm code sound a lot like 6-year-olds when you try to teach them organized sports.

“No, little Billy, you can’t kick three soccer balls around on the field in order to score points faster.”
“But…but…” throws up hands in disgust, “this game is IMPOSSIBLE!!”

ALL games for people older than about five involve playing within a set of rules. It’s actually really refreshing to see ArenaNet attempting to nudge people into playing the game the way it was intended, instead of allowing the shortcuts and loopholes that typically make a large part of most MMORPGs completely meaningless.

i skimmed your post, and saw the words “grind” over and over again. i think anet just wants you to play the game and stuff. pretty crazy concept, i know.

Fozzik.1742:

I think it’s kind of hilarious that people have gotten so indoctrinated into the mentality of grinding and rushing through games using any loophole possible…that they actually, honestly don’t know how to play. Here’s a news flash… no MMORPG was really intended to be played that way. They just chose not to stop you from ruining your own experience for so long that you started thinking that actually WAS the experience.

Months and months ago, as I thought carefully about the game’s mechanics and their potential effect on the community…I figured that the game would really slow players down, get them exploring and feeling immersed, and get them enjoying the journey again, instead of just the extremely short-lived thrill of the meaningless never-ending ladder climbing sprint that most MMORPGs have been in the last decade. The bird seed those games drop every 10th time you peck the button doesn’t ever actually taste good…but maybe next time it will…

What I didn’t realize was exactly how resistant people would be to the reprogramming. It’s fairly astounding.

Want to know how to play a game? I’ll try to help. Stop looking for the fastest way to finish. Stop looking for the “best” everything. Stop looking at the numbers. Stop trying to shortcut or find the loopholes or game the system. If you KNOW that you got less experience this mob then you did on the last mob…you’re doing it wrong. Just play. The loot and levels and rewards will all flow naturally, and you’ll get a much longer, deeper, meaningful play experience. Maybe you’ll even find that you’re sticking around long enough to form server and game communities that are worthwhile and really add something to the game.

Play for fun… play because you enjoy the game play itself. Wander and explore and experience the stories and characters for their own sake. Take pride in learning to play the combat really well, knowing your profession, etc. If you don’t enjoy the game play, move on, because there’s no magical carrot at the end of the stick that is going to make it all worthwhile. This game IS the moment-to-moment game play that you experience just exploring and taking part in the world. It’s not some appetizer for 80 levels where you do things you don’t like in order to get to the “fun stuff”.

People complaining about anti-farm code sound a lot like 6-year-olds when you try to teach them organized sports.

“No, little Billy, you can’t kick three soccer balls around on the field in order to score points faster.”
“But…but…” throws up hands in disgust, “this game is IMPOSSIBLE!!”

ALL games for people older than about five involve playing within a set of rules. It’s actually really refreshing to see ArenaNet attempting to nudge people into playing the game the way it was intended, instead of allowing the shortcuts and loopholes that typically make a large part of most MMORPGs completely meaningless.

Okay Imma stop you at “rushing” the rest of your statement is just you thinking you’re better than other people because they lack your attitude and are going,
WAAAHH TOO HARD DONT PLAY KTHXBAI

Let me try to explain something for you, its called pacing…
Could it possibly be you play at a slower rate than other people or do you think that anyone whos leveling up faster than you is rushing.

Heres an example, Look at a marathon, a 24k CHARITY marathon.
Are those running faster, trying to finish the marathon faster or do you think maybe they just have a faster pace than those running behind.

Leveling speed has nothing to do with it.

We’re talking about people who are complaining because the game doesn’t provide them with optimal rewards when they use loopholes (grinding certain mobs or farming certain areas) to shortcut their rewards and completion of the game. Rather than actually play, they want to be able to jump up and down in place a million times super fast and “win”. They even go so far as to say that they don’t even KNOW what actually playing an MMORPG is or looks like. They are annoyed because ArenaNet has put systems in place which cause the game to be most efficient when you DON’T try to game the system. I think it’s a great thing. This game provides the smoothest, most efficient path when you wander and enjoy the variety available. It’s so refreshing.

Again, I could care less how fast people play…that has nothing to do with it. If you are playing the game as intended and you have 10 hours a day to explore and enjoy the content…you’re going to get to max much quicker than I am, and that’s totally cool. If you have 1 hour a night, and feel like you should be entitled to gain all the rewards the game offers in a couple weeks and get mad when ArenaNet closes exploits and loopholes…that’s not okay.

The sad thing is, they haven’t stopped the botters. It reminds me of Ubisofts naive attempts to stop piracy by using terrible DRM.

No matter how hard they try it never works and just annoys the legitimate player base.

Tradewind.6913:

Gray.9650:

Tradewind.6913:

That’s a lot of generalizations on things that you can’t possibly know.

now, it’s actually quite easy to figure out when you claim you haven’t encountered the DR system yet.

I said it hasn’t affected me, that’s not the same as I have not encountered it. The difference is that I just don’t care all that much. I make my gold by other means and fill my time with activities that don’t involve farming for inordinate amounts of time. Leveling alts, hopping between dragon spawns, playing the trading post etc.

Most of the complainers seem to have a really hard time grasping this. I’ve played the living hell out of this (330hrs +) and I don’t have a problem with the system because I don’t behave like a goshdurn (yeah, kitten that ANet) bot. I move around naturally. I coast from area to area. I don’t set down roots somewhere and farm until my eyes bleed because I want to be one of the first kids on the block to have a legendary — ostensibly, so I can sit on my backside in Divinity’s Reach and show of my greatness. I follow events around. I follow NPCs around. I follow butterflies around. I make my gold, I collect my mats and I patiently wait until I have enough for my rainbow unicorn faerie bow. And I have fun doing it.

To the the outcry that people can’t farm like they are sitting on an assembly line, I say tough luck. There are plenty of games out there designed to support your grind fetish. GW2 never claimed to be grind friendly. And people are now shocked that it isn’t. Yeah, whatever…

Eloquently put. If you lived near me I’d buy you a beer and give you a high five.

Blacklight.2871:

Tradewind.6913:

Gray.9650:

Tradewind.6913:

That’s a lot of generalizations on things that you can’t possibly know.

now, it’s actually quite easy to figure out when you claim you haven’t encountered the DR system yet.

I said it hasn’t affected me, that’s not the same as I have not encountered it. The difference is that I just don’t care all that much. I make my gold by other means and fill my time with activities that don’t involve farming for inordinate amounts of time. Leveling alts, hopping between dragon spawns, playing the trading post etc.

Most of the complainers seem to have a really hard time grasping this. I’ve played the living hell out of this (330hrs +) and I don’t have a problem with the system because I don’t behave like a goshdurn (yeah, kitten that ANet) bot. I move around naturally. I coast from area to area. I don’t set down roots somewhere and farm until my eyes bleed because I want to be one of the first kids on the block to have a legendary — ostensibly, so I can sit on my backside in Divinity’s Reach and show of my greatness. I follow events around. I follow NPCs around. I follow butterflies around. I make my gold, I collect my mats and I patiently wait until I have enough for my rainbow unicorn faerie bow. And I have fun doing it.

To the the outcry that people can’t farm like they are sitting on an assembly line, I say tough luck. There are plenty of games out there designed to support your grind fetish. GW2 never claimed to be grind friendly. And people are now shocked that it isn’t. Yeah, whatever…

The loudest

Ah, so doing an event ONCE is acting like a bot?

Because I’m locked out of MOB drops at the cannon area for the Lyssa event, because apparently I killed to many mobs there when I did the event a few days ago. I’m locked out of drops because it can take a while before the darn npcs fix the cannon. No I’m quite sure the anti drop code is working perfectly!

“no? even if arena touts that as part of their “endgame”? interesting.
it also doesn’t mean people farm dragon spawns specifically”

correct. ANet doesnt tout dragons as part of their “farming.” theyre the endgame.

Blacklight.2871:

Tradewind.6913:

Gray.9650:

Tradewind.6913:

That’s a lot of generalizations on things that you can’t possibly know.

now, it’s actually quite easy to figure out when you claim you haven’t encountered the DR system yet.

I said it hasn’t affected me, that’s not the same as I have not encountered it. The difference is that I just don’t care all that much. I make my gold by other means and fill my time with activities that don’t involve farming for inordinate amounts of time. Leveling alts, hopping between dragon spawns, playing the trading post etc.

Most of the complainers seem to have a really hard time grasping this. I’ve played the living hell out of this (330hrs +) and I don’t have a problem with the system because I don’t behave like a goshdurn (yeah, kitten that ANet) bot. I move around naturally. I coast from area to area. I don’t set down roots somewhere and farm until my eyes bleed because I want to be one of the first kids on the block to have a legendary — ostensibly, so I can sit on my backside in Divinity’s Reach and show of my greatness. I follow events around. I follow NPCs around. I follow butterflies around. I make my gold, I collect my mats and I patiently wait until I have enough for my rainbow unicorn faerie bow. And I have fun doing it.

To the the outcry that people can’t farm like they are sitting on an assembly line, I say tough luck. There are plenty of games out there designed to support your grind fetish. GW2 never claimed to be grind friendly. And people are now shocked that it isn’t. Yeah, whatever…

Thing is, people like you have blinders on when reading posts like this, there are many reported instances where just running a chain twice slashes your reward to next to nothing. Is running a fun chain two times in a row really farming to you?

Not to mention you seem to fail to read posts where ANet have admitted they messed up and things are not functioning as intended, and the system is SNAFU. These two things kind of scrape any meat out of your argument. But to each his own.

Fozzik.1742:

Leveling speed has nothing to do with it.

We’re talking about people who are complaining because the game doesn’t provide them with optimal rewards when they use loopholes (grinding certain mobs or farming certain areas) to shortcut their rewards and completion of the game. Rather than actually play, they want to be able to jump up and down in place a million times super fast and “win”. They even go so far as to say that they don’t even KNOW what actually playing an MMORPG is or looks like. They are annoyed because ArenaNet has put systems in place which cause the game to be most efficient when you DON’T try to game the system. I think it’s a great thing. This game provides the smoothest, most efficient path when you wander and enjoy the variety available. It’s so refreshing.

Again, I could care less how fast people play…that has nothing to do with it. If you are playing the game as intended and you have 10 hours a day to explore and enjoy the content…you’re going to get to max much quicker than I am, and that’s totally cool. If you have 1 hour a night, and feel like you should be entitled to gain all the rewards the game offers in a couple weeks and get mad when ArenaNet closes exploits and loopholes…that’s not okay.

I think you are attempting to discuss something along a different track. In this thread most of us are discussing the limitations being placed on legitimate players playing the game in a legitimate way. Such as the dungeon caps, diminishing returns on DEs and the anti farm script.

I do not honestly believe there is anyone in this thread advocating on behalf of people that want the easy street or fast track. However there are many valid concerns over the restrictions having been placed on what is considered legitimate game play in order to combat exploiters and bots.

Different strokes for different folks. Just because you do not like/want to “grind” on mobs for mats does not mean that those who do should be discouraged or penalized. Their game play is no more or less legitimate than yours.

baldsh.3896:

Thing is, people like you have blinders on when reading posts like this, there are many reported instances where just running a chain twice slashes your reward to next to nothing. Is running a fun chain two times in a row really farming to you?

Not to mention you seem to fail to read posts where ANet have admitted they messed up and things are not functioning as intended, and the system is SNAFU. These two things kind of scrape any meat out of your argument. But to each his own.

But then you have a thread like this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Anti-Farming-Diminishing-Returns-SOME-TRUTHS/

3 posts above this one.

ITT: People who don’t farm in games telling people who keyword- enjoy to farm that they can’t have it because they are the superior gaming type.

You guys are right, because you don’t enjoy farming, no one else should be able to either even if they find it fun. /rollseyes

Lysidian.4653:

I think you are attempting to discuss something along a different track. In this thread most of us are discussing the limitations being placed on legitimate players playing the game in a legitimate way. Such as the dungeon caps, diminishing returns on DEs and the anti farm script.

Nope, I’m discussing exactly the same thing. The issue here is in our different perspectives on what constitutes playing the game in a legitimate way. The dungeon caps were put in place to keep people from speed clearing a single, easier path in a dungeon many times in order to quickly farm rewards. This was an illegitimate way to play, according to ArenaNet…obviously, since they changed it.

The diminishing returns discussion is devoid of complete facts or even basic information. People are providing anecdotal evidence of their own experiences, and I would venture to say that there is a lot of speculation, exaggeration, and overraction going on. Other than the diminishing returns they’ve talked about implementing in dungeons (which they have said are not working as intended and going to be fixed), we don’t have any confirmation from the devs that a diminishing returns system is in place anywhere else. For every example someone has provided on these boards to show they got diminishing returns, there is another example of someone who continued to get full rewards. So…all we can say about that at this point is that we really don’t know. My guess is that there is a bug that is affecting some people’s rewards from certain things…and if it is a bug, I’m sure reporting it with maximum details and specificity to the devs is the best way to clear it up (as opposed to inflamed discussions of some sort of great conspiracy).

Some folks obvious feel that farming (doing the same thing over and over as fast as possible for hours) is a legit way to play. I would venture to say, based on ArenaNet’s actions with dungeons, that they do not agree. For my part, I agree with ArenaNet…I don’t think farming is a legit way to play. I think it’s a loophole that has existed for a long time in MMORPGs which allows people to min/max the most efficient single activity in a given game in order to shortcut through…that is what I was posting about above.

Fozzik.1742:

Nope, I’m discussing exactly the same thing. The issue here is in our different perspectives on what constitutes playing the game in a legitimate way. The dungeon caps were put in place to keep people from speed clearing a single, easier path in a dungeon many times in order to quickly farm rewards. This was an illegitimate way to play, according to ArenaNet…obviously, since they changed it.

The diminishing returns discussion is devoid of complete facts or even basic information. People are providing anecdotal evidence of their own experiences, and I would venture to say that there is a lot of speculation, exaggeration, and overraction going on. Other than the diminishing returns they’ve talked about implementing in dungeons (which they have said are not working as intended and going to be fixed), we don’t have any confirmation from the devs that a diminishing returns system is in place anywhere else. For every example someone has provided on these boards to show they got diminishing returns, there is another example of someone who continued to get full rewards. So…all we can say about that at this point is that we really don’t know. My guess is that there is a bug that is affecting some people’s rewards from certain things…and if it is a bug, I’m sure reporting it with maximum details and specificity to the devs is the best way to clear it up (as opposed to inflamed discussions of some sort of great conspiracy).

Some folks obvious feel that farming (doing the same thing over and over as fast as possible for hours) is a legit way to play. I would venture to say, based on ArenaNet’s actions with dungeons, that they do not agree. For my part, I agree with ArenaNet…I don’t think farming is a legit way to play. I think it’s a loophole that has existed for a long time in MMORPGs which allows people to min/max the most efficient single activity in a given game in order to shortcut through…that is what I was posting about above.

Ok. I am having a hard time grasping your view point. Taking your last paragraph, and farming being a loop hole or shortcut…. lets say I need to farm T6 blood. So I know the trolls in Frostgorge have a chance to drop Vial of Powerful Blood. Lets say I need 30, which is about what it takes to make 2 exotic berserker daggers. So if by your point of view, going out and killing poor trolls for a few hours to get the 30 Vials of Powerful Blood is a shortcut or loophole….. pray tell how does one go about accomplishing this task and not fall into your view of a shortcut or loophole?

“Play how we want you too.” Seems to be their new, revised slogan.

baldsh.3896:

Blacklight.2871:

Tradewind.6913:

Gray.9650:

Tradewind.6913:

That’s a lot of generalizations on things that you can’t possibly know.

now, it’s actually quite easy to figure out when you claim you haven’t encountered the DR system yet.

I said it hasn’t affected me, that’s not the same as I have not encountered it. The difference is that I just don’t care all that much. I make my gold by other means and fill my time with activities that don’t involve farming for inordinate amounts of time. Leveling alts, hopping between dragon spawns, playing the trading post etc.

Most of the complainers seem to have a really hard time grasping this. I’ve played the living hell out of this (330hrs +) and I don’t have a problem with the system because I don’t behave like a goshdurn (yeah, kitten that ANet) bot. I move around naturally. I coast from area to area. I don’t set down roots somewhere and farm until my eyes bleed because I want to be one of the first kids on the block to have a legendary — ostensibly, so I can sit on my backside in Divinity’s Reach and show of my greatness. I follow events around. I follow NPCs around. I follow butterflies around. I make my gold, I collect my mats and I patiently wait until I have enough for my rainbow unicorn faerie bow. And I have fun doing it.

To the the outcry that people can’t farm like they are sitting on an assembly line, I say tough luck. There are plenty of games out there designed to support your grind fetish. GW2 never claimed to be grind friendly. And people are now shocked that it isn’t. Yeah, whatever…

Thing is, people like you have blinders on when reading posts like this, there are many reported instances where just running a chain twice slashes your reward to next to nothing. Is running a fun chain two times in a row really farming to you?

Not to mention you seem to fail to read posts where ANet have admitted they messed up and things are not functioning as intended, and the system is SNAFU. These two things kind of scrape any meat out of your argument. But to each his own.

Thing is, people like to exaggerate.

Also: Kettle meet pot.

Lysidian.4653:

Ok. I am having a hard time grasping your view point. Taking your last paragraph, and farming being a loop hole or shortcut…. lets say I need to farm T6 blood. So I know the trolls in Frostgorge have a chance to drop Vial of Powerful Blood. Lets say I need 30, which is about what it takes to make 2 exotic berserker daggers. So if by your point of view, going out and killing poor trolls for a few hours to get the 30 Vials of Powerful Blood is a shortcut or loophole….. pray tell how does one go about accomplishing this task and not fall into your view of a shortcut or loophole?

You never have to farm anything. You never need to farm anything. This is a requirement that only exists in your mind. I know this is a really foreign thing, but think about it for a bit. When you originally played through that area…exploring and doing events and things…did you get some of those items? I’ll bet you did. Just play, and stuff comes to you. You don’t have to farm, ever.

You’re perfectly illustrating the mentality that has developed over years of games which allowed players to sabotage their own long-term enjoyment and the value of their own rewards by discovering efficient ways to circumvent play (i.e. farming, power-leveling, etc). People just assume that if a bunch of something is required, that must mean they HAVE to farm it. It doesn’t mean that at all.

Just play. If you are playing in the area where those drop, you’ll get some, just by playing. If you’re playing in a different area, you’ll get gold and other valuables just as a natural result of play. You can use that gold or sell those other valuables in order to purchase some of the items you need. Will it take longer than farming the mats? Probably…but that’s the point. You’re supposed to be having fun playing, enjoying the game for its own sake, and those things are supposed to take a longer time to get. If you’re enjoying yourself and letting the rewards come to you, you’ll have them before you know it.

And if some of us enjoy going out and gathering our own mats?

So basicly if I go out and actively hunt the mobs to get the items I want then I am farming or grinding and effectively as you put it circumventing game play, my only other option is to …. buy them. So yes, I could buy/trade for what I wanted assuming I didnt get it during my first play though.

I do not see how actively seeking out the source of needed materials and actively collecting those materials is now considered a “requirement that only exists in my mind” If I didnt get them or enough of them in just playing, and I want them to make something, options are pretty much limited on the means to obtain them. To imply that “farming” them is sabotaging my long term enjoyment is a bit of a reach.

Perhaps our views are so far apart, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Doesnt mean either is right or wrong, different strokes, different folks.

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

I could say the exact same thing about yours.

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

I could say the exact same thing about yours.

lol didnt I just say that? Last word much?

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

I could say the exact same thing about yours.

lol didnt I just say that? Last word much?

No. You?

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

I could say the exact same thing about yours.

lol didnt I just say that? Last word much?

No. You?

total……oh look butterflies

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

I could say the exact same thing about yours.

lol didnt I just say that? Last word much?

No. You?

total……oh look butterflies

You post that outside? Or is that a dig at me because I play a Mesmer?

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

I could say the exact same thing about yours.

lol didnt I just say that? Last word much?

No. You?

total……oh look butterflies

You post that outside?

Butterflies tend to thrive outside more so than inside….. why yes outside.

lol just noticed the sig, total co-inky dink

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

Lysidian.4653:

crewthief.8649:

TL;DR The OP has two level 80 characters and is shocked that he is bored.

If ignorance is bliss, you are stoned out of your skull.

This post is just about as useful as yours is.

I could say the exact same thing about yours.

lol didnt I just say that? Last word much?

No. You?

total……oh look butterflies

You post that outside?

Butterflies tend to thrive outside more so than inside….. why yes outside.

Nice! Ahhh…the convenience of laptops!

Lysidian.4653:

And if some of us enjoy going out and gathering our own mats?

So basicly if I go out and actively hunt the mobs to get the items I want then I am farming or grinding and effectively as you put it circumventing game play, my only other option is to …. buy them. So yes, I could buy/trade for what I wanted assuming I didnt get it during my first play though.

I do not see how actively seeking out the source of needed materials and actively collecting those materials is now considered a “requirement that only exists in my mind” If I didnt get them or enough of them in just playing, and I want them to make something, options are pretty much limited on the means to obtain them. To imply that “farming” them is sabotaging my long term enjoyment is a bit of a reach.

Perhaps our views are so far apart, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Doesnt mean either is right or wrong, different strokes, different folks.

Perhaps we aren’t as far apart as you think. Of course it’s always a matter of degrees. There’s a line to be drawn, you must admit…somewhere between getting some things you need or want and spending all day in one spot killing the same mob because you’ve got mathematical formulas that tell you it’s the most efficient way to get to max level or make a ton of money. Somewhere in between is a middle ground…where people aren’t min/maxing constantly, but are still able to achieve their goals without ending up with nothing to do after a couple weeks.

I like what ArenaNet is doing in terms of focusing their game on social aspects and community-building, exploration, and just fun fundamental moment-to-moment play. No bait-and-switch after a long grind…just a fun game from the start. I don’t mind them making that the most efficient progression method…because it’s the most fun. Wandering and doing a variety of things is what I’ve always loved about these games, but it’s never really been supported like it is here.

I think if there is an anti-farming system in the open world (we really don’t have any confirmation or hard facts from ArenaNet on this), it probably sits somewhere well on the side that you and I would both consider excessive. I’m betting that regular play is not going to be hampered at all, and if it currently is, it’s likely a bug with the system that they’ll fix once they have the data to know what’s wrong. The only real problem is here on the boards where people are jumping to crazy conclusions based on shaky anecdotal evidence and flying off the handle about it.

Of course everyone says they have the best of intentions and just want to enjoy the game to the fullest…but we both know there are a lot of people out there botting, exploiting and crossing the line any way they can…going well past what either of us would consider appropriate. I’m sure that ArenaNet wants to avoid a situation where those people are ruining the game for everyone, and I support them in that.

I’m going to go back to playing now…because for me at least everything’s fine and dandy and awesome in Tyria (warts and all).

Debsylvania.7396:

Um.. Eden? The code they installed is being changed again as it’s not doing what they intended. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Updates/page/16#post190414

FYI everyone, that post is ONLY referring to the dungeon DR system, not the loot or event DR systems.

And to those claiming this only affects people grinding in one spot, YOU ARE WRONG. If you’re level 80, fighting Risen, you have very limited options to simply “go somewhere else”. The loot DR system apparently works partially by mob type, so once it kicks in in Orr, you are screwed. Your option is to go to Frostgorge Sound, kill trolls for 10-15 minutes, and then WAIT AROUND FOR IT TO RESET.

I shouldn’t have to babysit this system to play the game normally. It is utterly and completely broken and frankly I am tired of the people defending this garbage.

Fozzik.1742:

Lysidian.4653:

And if some of us enjoy going out and gathering our own mats?

So basicly if I go out and actively hunt the mobs to get the items I want then I am farming or grinding and effectively as you put it circumventing game play, my only other option is to …. buy them. So yes, I could buy/trade for what I wanted assuming I didnt get it during my first play though.

I do not see how actively seeking out the source of needed materials and actively collecting those materials is now considered a “requirement that only exists in my mind” If I didnt get them or enough of them in just playing, and I want them to make something, options are pretty much limited on the means to obtain them. To imply that “farming” them is sabotaging my long term enjoyment is a bit of a reach.

Perhaps our views are so far apart, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Doesnt mean either is right or wrong, different strokes, different folks.

Perhaps we aren’t as far apart as you think. Of course it’s always a matter of degrees. There’s a line to be drawn, you must admit…somewhere between getting some things you need or want and spending all day in one spot killing the same mob because you’ve got mathematical formulas that tell you it’s the most efficient way to get to max level or make a ton of money. Somewhere in between is a middle ground…where people aren’t min/maxing constantly, but are still able to achieve their goals without ending up with nothing to do after a couple weeks.

I like what ArenaNet is doing in terms of focusing their game on social aspects and community-building, exploration, and just fun fundamental moment-to-moment play. No bait-and-switch after a long grind…just a fun game from the start. I don’t mind them making that the most efficient progression method…because it’s the most fun. Wandering and doing a variety of things is what I’ve always loved about these games, but it’s never really been supported like it is here.

I think if there is an anti-farming system in the open world (we really don’t have any confirmation or hard facts from ArenaNet on this), it probably sits somewhere well on the side that you and I would both consider excessive. I’m betting that regular play is not going to be hampered at all, and if it currently is, it’s likely a bug with the system that they’ll fix once they have the data to know what’s wrong. The only real problem is here on the boards where people are jumping to crazy conclusions based on shaky anecdotal evidence and flying off the handle about it.

Of course everyone says they have the best of intentions and just want to enjoy the game to the fullest…but we both know there are a lot of people out there botting, exploiting and crossing the line any way they can…going well past what either of us would consider appropriate. I’m sure that ArenaNet wants to avoid a situation where those people are ruining the game for everyone, and I support them in that.

I’m going to go back to playing now…because for me at least everything’s fine and dandy and awesome in Tyria (warts and all).

I don’t care about making money, I never have in a game, once I have my trait books paid for and some gear I’m a happy adventurer.

But I walk into a dungeon and realise that toughness stat I’ve stacked is useless, those awesome swords I’ve made are useless and that the way of dealing with EVERYTHING is “kite, kite, kite, kite” so what’s left?

go farm? anti DR code for risen. largekitten costs on waypoints so i’ve to either get 2 extra loading screens (they’re pretty frequent in GW2) and run, or pay through the nose for their lack of mounts.

I’d honestly run dungeon content at a tiny gain repeatedly and be happy as a pig in it’s own filth if it hadn’t just been destroyed and the combat wasn’t so range centric.

No, I don’t think people should farm for stuff it’s boring and causes players to congregate in one area, but the system they’ve used is inelegant and simply seems more like they’re getting ready to start the pay2notbefrustrated style of gaming, that we’ve seen in so many third rate mmo’s, just cos gw2 is prettier than most, doesn’t mean it’s not going to irritate us with changes and introduce more anti-fun.

So what do we do? well we can accept it as a mediocre game that could have been better. Fine and dandy, but I don’t think that will happen due to the fact people will feel misled, and so the D3 esque hurricane begins. I can’t blame gamers, they’re consumers at heart, and they do have the right to say, “this parrot you sold me is dead” and not be patronised with responses like “nawww he’s just resting”

Also people defended D3 up til the big changes, I wonder if they’re happier now or raging that the game was altered? crazy people will always do crazy things I guess xD

@Fozzik – People are always going to min/max, there really isnt a way to stop that. Its just human nature, the path of least resistance and all that. However, reasonable players dont want to see bots/exploiters/cheaters get away with their shenanigans, although at the same time, I dont think play styles should be curtailed. Provided they dont disrupt the game play of others or break the game in some fashion.

Fozzik.1742:

I think it’s kind of hilarious that people have gotten so indoctrinated into the mentality of grinding and rushing through games using any loophole possible…that they actually, honestly don’t know how to play. Here’s a news flash… no MMORPG was really intended to be played that way. They just chose not to stop you from ruining your own experience for so long that you started thinking that actually WAS the experience.

Months and months ago, as I thought carefully about the game’s mechanics and their potential effect on the community…I figured that the game would really slow players down, get them exploring and feeling immersed, and get them enjoying the journey again, instead of just the extremely short-lived thrill of the meaningless never-ending ladder climbing sprint that most MMORPGs have been in the last decade. The bird seed those games drop every 10th time you peck the button doesn’t ever actually taste good…but maybe next time it will…

What I didn’t realize was exactly how resistant people would be to the reprogramming. It’s fairly astounding.

Want to know how to play a game? I’ll try to help. Stop looking for the fastest way to finish. Stop looking for the “best” everything. Stop looking at the numbers. Stop trying to shortcut or find the loopholes or game the system. If you KNOW that you got less experience this mob then you did on the last mob…you’re doing it wrong. Just play. The loot and levels and rewards will all flow naturally, and you’ll get a much longer, deeper, meaningful play experience. Maybe you’ll even find that you’re sticking around long enough to form server and game communities that are worthwhile and really add something to the game.

Play for fun… play because you enjoy the game play itself. Wander and explore and experience the stories and characters and the world for their own sake. Take pride in learning to play the combat really well (even when you don’t technically HAVE to), knowing your profession, etc. Help out other players just because it’s a nice and fun thing to do, and because paying it forward helps to create a better server community for you and everyone else.

If you don’t enjoy the game play, move on, because there’s no magical carrot at the end of the stick that is going to make it all worthwhile (there never really was in any game you played). This game IS the moment-to-moment game play that you experience just exploring and taking part in the world. It’s not some appetizer for 80 levels where you do things you don’t like in order to get to the “fun stuff”.

People complaining about anti-farm code sound a lot like 6-year-olds when you try to teach them organized sports.

“No, little Billy, you can’t kick three soccer balls around on the field in order to score points faster.”
“But…but…” throws up hands in disgust, “this game is IMPOSSIBLE!!”

ALL games for people older than about five involve playing within a set of rules. It’s actually really refreshing to see ArenaNet attempting to nudge people into playing the game the way it was intended, instead of allowing the shortcuts and loopholes that typically make a large part of most MMORPGs completely meaningless.

Thanks for telling me how I should play an MMORPG since it’s quite clear you think your way of playing is somehow superior to my way.

You try and back up your statements by saying everyone complaining has been trained to “game the system”, which is to imply anyone who doesn’t like soft/hardcaps on certain playstyles are intentionally trying to hack the game. Something is wrong with your logic, not ours.

I like to grind. It’s how I like to play. It’s what I find fun. i like mob grinding more fun than DE grinding because it’s simpler and I can do it at my own time and pace. I don’t expect legendaries and such to drop from these things. I am fairly ok with just trash drops that I can sell to the NPC or finding the occassional somewhat useful item. I’m fine with that. If there is a chance for an exotic, even if it’s 0.01%, that’s just icing.

But thank you again for telling me how my playstyle is somehow wrong.

It’s pretty absurd that you think other MMORPG that allow you a wide range of playstyles without cripplying you is somehow a glitch and was unintended. Or even worse, that MMORPG that allow you a wide range of playstyles only does so because players are circumventing some mystical restrictions.

I’ve heard all kinds of crazy defence of GW2’s questionable decisions, but this takes the cake.

ounkeo.9138:

Thanks for telling me how I should play an MMORPG since it’s quite clear you think your way of playing is somehow superior to my way.

You try and back up your statements by saying everyone complaining has been trained to “game the system”, which is to imply anyone who doesn’t like soft/hardcaps on certain playstyles are intentionally trying to hack the game. Something is wrong with your logic, not ours.

I like to grind. It’s how I like to play. It’s what I find fun. i like mob grinding more fun than DE grinding because it’s simpler and I can do it at my own time and pace. I don’t expect legendaries and such to drop from these things. I am fairly ok with just trash drops that I can sell to the NPC or finding the occassional somewhat useful item. I’m fine with that. If there is a chance for an exotic, even if it’s 0.01%, that’s just icing.

But thank you again for telling me how my playstyle is somehow wrong.

It’s pretty absurd that you think other MMORPG that allow you a wide range of playstyles without cripplying you is somehow a glitch and was unintended. Or even worse, that MMORPG that allow you a wide range of playstyles only does so because players are circumventing some mystical restrictions.

I’ve heard all kinds of crazy defence of GW2’s questionable decisions, but this takes the cake.

I’m not saying it’s wrong. I’m saying it isn’t what the developers intended. In GW2, at least in some situations, ArenaNet seems to have put a system of diminishing returns into the game when people play in a way that the developers didn’t intend (again, we are still speculating and don’t know for sure how it works). Either live with that fact (you are getting less reward because you aren’t playing the way ArenaNet intended) or move on to a game that supports your play style.

You can certainly grind mobs if you choose. Just be aware that it will yield dramatically less experience and loot than other styles of play. If you’re okay with that, hey, do your thing. I’m not really trying to tell people one way is right and one is wrong, I’m trying to explain what ArenaNet is doing with their design (at least my understanding of it) and why. People seem to be really misunderstanding the goals and the intended style of play that ArenaNet created (as evidenced by the OP), and are getting bent out of shape because of that lack of understanding.

At the same time, there are tons of players who “get it”…who on some level understand how the game is intended to be played…and they are playing the game and having a blast every day. If you asked most of those players, they would tell you they have never noticed any kind of diminishing returns system. They’ve had no issues at all and the loot and experience are just rolling in. Why? Because they are playing the game the way it’s intended to be played.

Every game, of every type, has a way it is intended to be played, and has rules which enforce that intended way of playing. When you play chess, you don’t get to decide that you can put a piece back on the board every 3 turns. When you play soccer, you don’t get to hold the ball with your hands.

The larger issue I was addressing was that in this genre in particular (MMORPGs), for the last decade the games have allowed players to use all kinds of shortcuts to get around the intended way of playing…they have employed a very “loose” set of rules within the game world that allow some people to game the system. This ends up creating a “golden path”… a particular, most efficient way of doing everything that people just copy, and miss out on the whole rest of the game. The “best” class. The “best” spec. The “best” experience zone.

I have no doubt that a lot of players love playing in those gray areas between intended mechanics and exploits, where they get the fastest possible rewards and advancement…and most game companies just let it happen to keep the min/maxers and squeaky wheels slightly more happy. It just so happens that in this particular game, it seems ArenaNet is cracking down a bit more and nudging people towards playing the game as intended, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I was giving my opinion as to why and how that takes place.