Guild Wars 2

Sephyros.9652:

I love the logic of GW2 players.

Paying for a sub on any other MMO is “being ripped off”.
Buying gems on the cash shop is “supporting the game you love”.

Stay classy.

Paying for a sub is not a choice. I don’t have to pay money to the cash shop to play this game. If a dungeon pops up at the end of the month, I’m not paying for that. The dungeon last month was awesome. I didn’t spend a dime last month.

I don’t like RNG and I won’t support it, so I won’t buy consortium chests.

There’s a difference between having a choice and not having a choice.

With a sub, you pay whether the game delivers or not.

I bought a six month subscription to Rift, and I played it for half that time, because the game didn’t deliver. Did I get my money’s worth from Rift? Probably. But I still wish I hadn’t subscribed, because I didn’t like the changes in the game (much as some people don’t like the changes to Guild Wars 2).

But in Guild Wars 2, you’re not paying for those changes unless you CHOOSE to use the cash shop. I can’t imagine why anyone can’t see that difference.

Geotherma.2395:

Shadow Blade.1324:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Rng chests and limited time item deals.

Cheap tactics can net you alot of cash.

Of course, it isnt as cheap as pay2win, so big upps to anet for staying away from that minefield for now.

what you talking about, the game has been pay to win since day one, you can buy legendary weapons which are always BIS

buying top end gear for cash is essentially the definition of pay to win

I can’t tell if sarcastic.. Legendarys are same stats currently as exotics. Top gear in GW2 has nothing to do with stats, but to do with looks. Aside from Ascended which isn’t needed anywhere outside of fractals. If gear actually mattered, then yes, p2w.

That “stats aren’t NEEDED” argument is used in every game. Of course you don’t NEED stats to compete in PvE… but it doesn’t mean you won’t be at a disadvantage to the person who has better stats than you do. I don’t NEED anything beyond white levle 70 or 60 armor to survive the NPCs in WvW… doesn’t mean I’d stand a ghost of a chance against someone who is geared out like my engineer is right now.

And the legendary will always have top end stats. For right now that means exotic. When ascended releases, it will mean ascended.

Sephyros.9652:

I love the logic of GW2 players.

Paying for a sub on any other MMO is “being ripped off”.
Buying gems on the cash shop is “supporting the game you love”.

Stay classy.

except you’re forced to do one of them if you want to play the game and the other one is purely a choice.

Tolmos.8395:

That “stats aren’t NEEDED” argument is used in every game. Of course you don’t NEED stats to compete in PvE… but it doesn’t mean you won’t be at a disadvantage to the person who has better stats than you do. I don’t NEED anything beyond white levle 70 or 60 armor to survive the NPCs in WvW… doesn’t mean I’d stand a ghost of a chance against someone who is geared out like my engineer is right now.

And the legendary will always have top end stats. For right now that means exotic. When ascended releases, it will mean ascended.

actually as long as you’re skilled you would do fine in yellows against exotics. When ascended weapons come out (if they ever do, seeing how slow ascended items are getting rolled out) they’ll probably be far easier to get than legendaries. Having in mind that current legendaries have the same stats as exotics spending 500 dollars on one wouldn’t win you the game. It would just make you look like a moron that chose instead of playing the game and getting it slowly to spend a lot of money to get it right now.

Tolmos.8395:

Geotherma.2395:

Shadow Blade.1324:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Rng chests and limited time item deals.

Cheap tactics can net you alot of cash.

Of course, it isnt as cheap as pay2win, so big upps to anet for staying away from that minefield for now.

what you talking about, the game has been pay to win since day one, you can buy legendary weapons which are always BIS

buying top end gear for cash is essentially the definition of pay to win

I can’t tell if sarcastic.. Legendarys are same stats currently as exotics. Top gear in GW2 has nothing to do with stats, but to do with looks. Aside from Ascended which isn’t needed anywhere outside of fractals. If gear actually mattered, then yes, p2w.

That “stats aren’t NEEDED” argument is used in every game. Of course you don’t NEED stats to compete in PvE… but it doesn’t mean you won’t be at a disadvantage to the person who has better stats than you do. I don’t NEED anything beyond white levle 70 or 60 armor to survive the NPCs in WvW… doesn’t mean I’d stand a ghost of a chance against someone who is geared out like my engineer is right now.

And the legendary will always have top end stats. For right now that means exotic. When ascended releases, it will mean ascended.

But in other games you actually DO need those stats. Skilled players in GW2 will easily beat someone in ascended gear in wvw/spvp. Whereas in a game like Aion, top geared players can just faceroll everyone skilled or not. And if/when ascended weapons come, then people will be able to get those as well and they will still not mean insta win like most other games. Gear will never rule this game, ascended was a mistake in most peoples eyes, but more hardcore players wanted gear grind so there they have it. Also, fully ascended people running around wvw will still die to zergs of 30 people wearing greens

I’m late to this topic, but I’m going to answer the OP, anyway.

They make money through microtransactions and the cost of the game, itself. Microtransactions are HUGE in MMOs, anymore. You look at all the MMOs out there that are making tons of money, and they are more free-to-play than GW even is. World of Tanks, League of Legends… they don’t even charge you for the game itself and they are raking in the dough. Those games sell in-game content, such as XP boosts, premium classes, unique skins, etc… and they make a fortune off them.

ANET not only makes a ton of money by forcing players to buy unique licenses for their games, but now they even make money on mictotransactions. While they don’t go as far as WoT or LoL in terms of what you can buy in the game, but they are still making a ton of money off it, especially on the Gem to Gold conversion.

Geotherma.2395:

But in other games you actually DO need those stats. Skilled players in GW2 will easily beat someone in ascended gear in wvw/spvp.

This sentence makes a massive assumption- that the skilled player in crap gear will have a higher skill level than the one who isn’t in crap gear. But what if they are equivalent? What if the ascended player is slightly better? Suddenly, in both situations, the non-ascended player is in a massive disadvantage.

Geotherma.2395:

Also, fully ascended people running around wvw will still die to zergs of 30 people wearing greens

This line of thinking I can’t stand. It’s exceptionally prevalent in EVE Online, as well. In GW2 I have a top geared toon, and in EVE I have a 50mil+ SP focused (no wasted points) toon, so this isn’t the complaint of some noob who feels outclassed by the big bad players in their uber characters. I AM the big bad player in the uber character. And that is why it bugs me so.

The idea that my ego needs a boost by requiring a raid of lesser statted characters to beat me is downright insulting. If I beat another player, I want to know it was because I was better at the game than him, and made better choices during our battle than him. I don’t want it to be because he had crap stats compared to me, and required 9 other people his level to take me down.

Tolmos.8395:

This sentence makes a massive assumption- that the skilled player in crap gear will have a higher skill level than the one who isn’t in crap gear. But what if they are equivalent? What if the ascended player is slightly better? Suddenly, in both situations, the non-ascended player is in a massive disadvantage.

Equivalent skill? I just don’t understand this point of view.

Two people meet 1v1. Nevermind that the game isn’t balanced around 1v1 but let’s say this happens, cause it does.

Now, the first thing is those two people are likely going to be different professions. Even if they’re the same profession it’s unlikely they’re going to have the same build. I know from experience that if you have a build that’s designed to take down certain other builds, you’re going to win an engagement because skill choice and trait choices do matter. If you have a guy who attacks mega fast and you can repeatly stack confusion on him, he’s gonna hurt. If he has enough condition removal it’s a battle between what you have stacked up and what he has stacked up…not necessarily about who has more skill. There’s a certain random element.

Even if two of the same profession meet, the odds are their builds will be different, and they’ll be specced differently.

So in order for skill to come into play a whole lot of other factors have to come into play. And even then, what does equally skilled even mean. I’m very skilled at certain things and not skilled at others. One guy might have the best timing in the world, one guy might have the ability to anticipate better. Equally skilled doesn’t really exist. Not in real life in boxing or tennis or anything else.

This is an illusion born of people who want to know that if they fail, they fail because they weren’t good enough, not due to stats. But stats are pretty much the least of your problems, unless the difference is stats is severe.

Sephyros.9652:

I love the logic of GW2 players.

Paying for a sub on any other MMO is “being ripped off”.
Buying gems on the cash shop is “supporting the game you love”.

Stay classy.

I’ve never spent more than $10 a month – if that – on gems. How does that work again in a sub game?

Some people have spent more money on this game than 5 years of subscription. Thats how.

People buy gems to exchange for gold every day.
Every event there is some Black Lion Chest nonsense, or some RNG garbage people spend hundreds of dollars on.

If anything they are probably making more money like this than charging every single player 15 bucks a month with no additional cost, and with all things in the gem shop currently being available in the game.

Vayne.8563:

But in Guild Wars 2, you’re not paying for those changes unless you CHOOSE to use the cash shop. I can’t imagine why anyone can’t see that difference.

Because they are skritt with credit cards.

“Must have new shinies!”
“The new shinies are in this box.” Swipe.
“Shinies!” Rip-rip-rip… “Awwww, no shinies.”
“Then the new shinies must be in this box.” Swipe.
“Shinies!” Rip-rip-rip… “Awwww, no shinies.”
Repeat ad naseum.

Uruz Six.6594:

CoRtex.2157:

The only thing i see is lineage doing better than GW2… GW2 had the most players ever at launch, if GW2 really was a great game, they would have had 2 times more than lineage 1 on the chart right now. Why didn’t they?

By your standard, the only ‘great game’ is apparently World of Warcraft.

No it’s not, i don’t like wow, but i can see why it’s a good game. Why it’s superior to other mmorpg’s. People seem to have a problem with facts and knowing what games really are. People seem to only care about games they play themselfs. I’ve played GW2 for 480 hours in the last 30 days. But i can still be honest why GW2 is doing so bad since release. Fanboying your own game won’t get you anywhere. It won’t get GW2 in esports ever. Arenanet wants their game in e-sports, but i can honestly tell, they won’t get anywhere. e-Sports is a place where only games can get where they lissen to the community and where skill matters. GW2 is a casual game, there is no skill requirement.

CoRtex.2157:

No it’s not, i don’t like wow, but i can see why it’s a good game. Why it’s superior to other mmorpg’s. People seem to have a problem with facts and knowing what games really are. People seem to only care about games they play themselfs. I’ve played GW2 for 480 hours in the last 30 days. But i can still be honest why GW2 is doing so bad since release. Fanboying your own game won’t get you anywhere. It won’t get GW2 in esports ever. Arenanet wants their game in e-sports, but i can honestly tell, they won’t get anywhere. e-Sports is a place where only games can get where they lissen to the community and where skill matters. GW2 is a casual game, there is no skill requirement.

if you think that in a game where gear doesn’t do much skill doesn’t matter then you’ve never been to Spvp.
Moba’s that are popular in E-sports do not listen to their community all that much. “This character is really OP!” “well maybe we’ll buff it again in the next patch!”.
However I don’t think that GW2 can become an E-sports at the state which it’s in right now. A) MMOs are rarely E-sport material b) Spvp really lacks different modes.

People are more likely to spend more money on a product they enjoy, rather than being forced upon it. There are several hundreds of players who have spent over $500 on this game simply because they have the money and enjoy the game.

I have also spent quite a bit of money on this game, I wouldn’t have spent nearly as much if this was subscription based; in fact I would have likely quit. I have taken a few breaks from this game, but the fact that I’m not continually paying for it is what brings me back.

Unlike Rift, world of warcraft and everything else… it is possible to quit and return back without getting your expectations shot because you paid for another month you didn’t use.

CoRtex.2157:

Uruz Six.6594:

CoRtex.2157:

The only thing i see is lineage doing better than GW2… GW2 had the most players ever at launch, if GW2 really was a great game, they would have had 2 times more than lineage 1 on the chart right now. Why didn’t they?

By your standard, the only ‘great game’ is apparently World of Warcraft.

No it’s not, i don’t like wow, but i can see why it’s a good game.

Your own definition of ‘great game’ was twice the quarterly revenues of Lineage 1. Ergo, WoW is the only great game. Or LoL I guess. How many other games made $66 million over the past three months?

Everytime WoW loses a million subs they come over here and post XD

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Every subscription based MMO was overcharging.

This.

WoW for example charges 10 pound approximately per month per subscriber.

With lets say an average of 10 million plus subs for just a year thats a income of 100 million pounds – MONTHLY.

Now take into consideration they have at least 4-5 years with that kind of sub number or more…
And the inital cost of development (supposedly) was around 60 million.

Now you see how overpriced that game really was.

The thing about wow was that it was a much “bigger” game in a sense. While they did make tons of cash, they also put tons and tons of cash into the game. The amount of team members they had for content development was pretty big, and they had a large support team.

iCryptik.1496:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Every subscription based MMO was overcharging.

This.

WoW for example charges 10 pound approximately per month per subscriber.

With lets say an average of 10 million plus subs for just a year thats a income of 100 million pounds – MONTHLY.

Now take into consideration they have at least 4-5 years with that kind of sub number or more…
And the inital cost of development (supposedly) was around 60 million.

Now you see how overpriced that game really was.

The thing about wow was that it was a much “bigger” game in a sense. While they did make tons of cash, they also put tons and tons of cash into the game. The amount of team members they had for content development was pretty big, and they had a large support team.

Too bad all that content was so easy you skip most of it and are forced into one little tiny “endgame” instance.

As this discussion has run its course and drifted off topic, this thread is now closed.