Guild Wars 2

Bebunw.8137:

not 50% but a significant amount of people, there is different degrees of popularity. And i didnt say all i like is popular, it ‘s not because you like something that it is popular, raids can be popular but it’s not in gw2 as much as you think it is.

When you say “majority” what do you mean? (because it means >50%)

Since you’ve changed what you define as “popular” I’ll leave that point alone, since we both know your initial definition was silly.

Now we can call raids popular not just because of the number of people who like it but how much they like it, Lady Gaga or Justin Beiber aren’t listened to by >50% of people but those who do like them like them a lot – they are popular amonst their listeners and something they care for. Raids are popular and you can’t really dispel that fact, they are things that people look forward to and even clear their evenings to do (these are things that show how much people like them), I would also draw your attention to LFG for further evidence of how many people are involved in Raids.

Raids are popular in other games and popular here, they were one of the main selling points for HoT and just because other games have them doesn’t mean GW2 shouldn’t (which was your initial implied point – obviously silly since Traits are found in other games and GW2 has them).

Coulter.2315:

I would also draw your attention to LFG for further evidence of how many people are involved in Raids.

Sure there will be a lot of LFG for raids when it’s only the new content since hot… moreover maybe only raiders are still playing actively atm.

tattyana.2356:

By now that raids were a bad idea unless they do something like blizzard did with there looking for raid thing. Otherwise your creating content only a fraction of the player base will ever see………

Many argue this was the death of WOW… Just saying.

“So, why is ANET going down this path?”

Assuming that “this path” refers to offering raids at all, the answer is simple. There is a demographic that likes hard, instanced PvE content. The content that enticed these people to GW2 at launch was explorable dungeons. For “reasons,” ANet abandoned that content. They also added FotM. Fractals, for all the recent rework, has offered the same instances for a long time. Raids are in a similar vein, and are new. This is just ANet adding something for this demographic, which is either the second or third most neglected subset of the total player-base (with WvW far and away the most neglected).

“There is nothing wrong with adding raid wings. the problem is when it is the ONLY content being released.”

Raids were part of the selling point of HoT. The first wing required a 4 week wait after HoT released before it was available. The second wing has required a wait of an additional 111 days. Meanwhile, the poor, neglected other PvE players got four zones and decent amount of events with HoT launch. They’ve also gotten a Shatt rework, and have whatever the April quarterly release will offer to look forward to. The next content for raiders is due in July.

The reality is that the content being released is not enough for virtually everybody. “Only content being released” is true only if you have an extreme case of myopia, otherwise known as, “What have you done for me lately?” This complaint is nothing more than the usual, “Every MMO out there does not produce content fast enough.” filtered through jealousy that someone else got something this week and the complainer didn’t.

redcomyn.4651:

The Anet people are themselves hardcore players. They are thus biased toward the viewpoint of the hardcore customer players. I think that they are confusing what they want to play with what the majority of the customers want to play.

what does that majority want? are you head of the committee or something?

IndigoSundown.5419:

This is just ANet adding something for this demographic, which is either the second or third most neglected subset of the total player-base (with WvW far and away the most neglected).

So raids vs WvW neglect is basicly like finding a crying baby with poop in his pants and then giving him a cigarette to stop the noise.

Also, the baby is on fire.

Dawdler.8521:

IndigoSundown.5419:

This is just ANet adding something for this demographic, which is either the second or third most neglected subset of the total player-base (with WvW far and away the most neglected).

So raids vs WvW neglect is basicly like finding a crying baby with poop in his pants and then giving him a cigarette to stop the noise.

Also, the baby is on fire.

I’m not a heavy WvW player, but I’d have to agree that WvW is the red-headed step-child. And you forgot the gasoline.

According to information I received while in a dream from aliens communicating with me via a psychic micro organ stimulated into activity by toxins released by government aircraft chemtrails, a vast Majority of players agree that raids are bad, or perhaps good

All in all I think I can safely speak for everyone, and that those who disagree with me are deranged criminal perverts who are morally bad. Welp, I live in a bathtub

Cyninja.2954:

style.6173:

A big part of the issue with Wildstar is that they focused on the hardcore players at max level. That left the more casuals with nothing new to do.

Now GW2 is following the same path. They are releasing new raid content which is of interest to a minority of the players, , and is mostly a once a week activity for most of those who actually do play it.

So, why is ANET going down this path? There is nothing wrong with adding raid wings. the problem is when it is the ONLY content being released.

Yes, because 1 raid split into 3 wings being released over 1 year is comparable to the massive amount of content which got released over the last 3.5 years and with the expansion.

Are you serious?

I am

The problem isn’t that they put the raid wing in, the issue is they have concentrated media coverage on it making it highly visible to everyone. Second to this they have installed high value rewards that most people now cannot get access to. This just adds to elitesim.

The elite players they recruited for testing the second raid wing burned through it in the first 2 days.

They really need to put levels in raids so that people can get started, even if they reserve some rewards. Shoving things like legendary armor in your face and then effectively saying ‘you aren’t good enough’ is just insulting. The point of this is that too much hype is bad.

redcomyn.4651:

The Anet people are themselves hardcore players. They are thus biased toward the viewpoint of the hardcore customer players. I think that they are confusing what they want to play with what the majority of the customers want to play.

The devs do play the game BUT they are not all elite players. If you think that try watching this video.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/storytelling-in-raids-a-summary/

They invited elite players from several guilds to take part in the raid testing. Devs quite often create content that they find extremely difficult or impossible themselves.

style.6173:

A big part of the issue with Wildstar is that they focused on the hardcore players at max level. That left the more casuals with nothing new to do.

Now GW2 is following the same path. They are releasing new raid content which is of interest to a minority of the players, , and is mostly a once a week activity for most of those who actually do play it.

GW2 has a lot of game modes, so one could say that every game mode has only a minority who actually do play it.

In the past (before HoT) a lot of players complained that the game is too easy. So A-Net promised before HoT “challenging content” (i.e. the HoT maps) and “challenging group content” (i.e. the raid, also HoT maps).

A-Net has already said, that the HoT maps will be modified, so that they become more “solo-able”, because they kind of overachieved their goal for a lot of people.

style.6173:

So, why is ANET going down this path? There is nothing wrong with adding raid wings. the problem is when it is the ONLY content being released.

You are wrong. It is not the ONLY content beeing released. But you can not expect, that in every single update there will be the same amount of new content for every game mode.

The real Hardcore players are the ones who live in WvW 24/7 though and rank 9000+. They’ve never been catered to. :[

style.6173:

Cyninja.2954:

style.6173:

There has been no real other content for almost 6 months. People would complain at a restaurant if they had to wait that long. That’s the point of this thread.

I’ll assume you are refering to post HoT release (which going by it’s October 23rd release was 4.5 months ago and not 6, but minor details). So let’s see what this no new content is:

- Squad UI, Legendary weapons, lots of bug fixing post release during November
- Pvp season 1 in december as well as fractal reward rework and more bug fixes and balancing
- shared inventory slots and major balance rework in January as well as, once again, more bug fixing
- Pvp season 2 launched in February

all this while still having the seasonal Halloween, Wintersday and Lunar events.

Yes, they did add 2 raid wings during this time and WvW is having issues since the new maps are not as popular as expected, which is getting addressed.

So when you are talking about no content, I’m not really sure what you are talking about. Content does not magically appear out of thin air, especially when your team has been working on releasing and adjusting the latest expansion to customer needs/demands. Then again, since a lot of people like bringing up players numbers interested in content, maybe arenanet should start focusing on pve only and let pvp out to dry, you know since the pvp playerbase is a minor fraction of the pve playerbase.

As someone mentioned earlier, if the fact that 6 devs out of 300 working on raid content is a bother to you, then I guess there is no reasoning with you.

The holiday events were just retreads from previous years. Were there any new events?
Shared inventory slots? You are counting gem store items as new content?

I’m counting items demanded for by the community. The holiday events were retreads from previous years, which does not mean they run on autopilot but need to be adjusted and reimplemented. If you paid attention to why SAB was not released you would know that with HoT GW2 got engine changes which made more than usual Dev attention necessary even for repeat content.

The gemstore items while technically not gameplay content, require human ressources and are part of arenanets business model.

style.6173:

PvP is different. I’m focusing on PvE content

Let me rephrase that into an a bit more accurate phrase depicting what your actual stance in this topic is:

“I’m not getting exclusively the game content I enjoy, thus everyone else enjoying different content should get screwed so only stuff I want gets implemented. I’m now going to make a not well thought through topic about a completely different game failing (due to issues which you didn’t even correctly grasp) in an attempt to hide this fact.”

As is, the only crowed who has a justified complaint is the current WvW crowd. Unfortunately the new maps and changes which were supposed to keep them happy turned out overdesigned and not practical. Arenanet has been working on fixing this issue.

Totally agree with this, WVW has acknowledged major issues and needs the lov next, and its a big part of the end game. As for raids, as long as the investment is proportional to the target demographic all is well., and with the GW2 Payment model that will happen natural – they have to.

With 32 active zones, fractals, dungeons (i still do em, im not worries about gold per hour), WVW, PVP, legendaries, map rewards, achievements, long term viable crafting goals, holiday events, guild activites. ive got more than any other 3 year old mmo I have played, and I can take a holiday at any time and know my character will still be there when i come back and wont be screwed by some power curve.

What we do see here is a lot of players that don’t get that a MMO game cannot be the perfect game to all players at the same time and generally act like spoiled children stamping their feet because the game doesn’t perfectly match their personal vision of a game while not willing to invest energy thinking about why that could be.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Totally agree with this, WVW has acknowledged major issues and needs the lov next, and its a big part of the end game. As for raids, as long as the investment is proportional to the target demographic all is well., and with the GW2 Payment model that will happen natural – they have to.

With 32 active zones, fractals, dungeons (i still do em, im not worries about gold per hour), WVW, PVP, legendaries, map rewards, achievements, long term viable crafting goals, holiday events, guild activites. ive got more than any other 3 year old mmo I have played, and I can take a holiday at any time and know my character will still be there when i come back and wont be screwed by some power curve.

What we do see here is a lot of players that don’t get that a MMO game cannot be the perfect game to all players at the same time and generally act like spoiled children stamping their feet because the game doesn’t perfectly match their personal vision of a game while not willing to invest energy thinking about why that could be.

That’s true. It’s really hard to please everyone. But at the same time, if you kittenes enough players, there is a certain amount of players gone.

I don’t know if what anet is doing is a good thing. They are the ones with all the datas. They are doing ok judging from NCSoft’s financial reports. But at the same time, GW2 is probably at a crucial moment, since not many mmorpg survive after 3 years.

Doggie.3184:

The real Hardcore players are the ones who live in WvW 24/7 though and rank 9000+. They’ve never been catered to. :[

We got a new map, OK it’s not brilliant but still…

…and we got Golem Rush….

The PvPers also got a new map, although the top few do get cash rewards.

style.6173:

A big part of the issue with Wildstar is that they focused on the hardcore players at max level. That left the more casuals with nothing new to do.

Now GW2 is following the same path. They are releasing new raid content which is of interest to a minority of the players, , and is mostly a once a week activity for most of those who actually do play it.

So, why is ANET going down this path? There is nothing wrong with adding raid wings. the problem is when it is the ONLY content being released.

QFE

The only reason I log in every day is for flax and freebies, i’ve done all of the HoT i can stomach and the old dungeons have been made irrelevant and impossible to find groups for. I’m not going to sit there and spam refresh on the LFG tool for the chance I might get into a sucessful HoT zone.

There’’s other games I play that still continue to focus on all types of players not just the vocal minority. I’m willing to bet an overwhelming majority of players have zero interest in raids because the game wasn’t developed to appeal to raiders.

IndigoSundown.5419:

DGraves.3720:

Randulf.7614:

And yet those fraction still deserve content.

For all the times I’ve heard this I’ve never heard an actual justification.

They paid for the game, the same way the people who don’t want to raid did. Anyone who paid for the game can come here and ask for something they want. If ANet deems it wise to provide that something, they might do so. If ANet provides it, they’re acknowledging that that demographic is large enough to warrant some dev effort.

So when are they adding naked Charr skins? I bought the game, and I want naked charr skins available.

If you are thinking “OH HELL NO!” – well, welcome to the world of everyone else when Raids were announced for Guild Wars 2.

Raids do not belong in Guild Wars 2 any more than they belong in Call of Duty. You don’t go a high-end Steakhouse for discount fried chicken, and you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

Sartharina.3542:

you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

You might want to change that, “you,” to an, “I,” if you want to be honest and/or accurate. Perhaps you do not play GW2 for raids, and luckily raids receive only a very tiny portion of the game’s development resources, but others do.

It isn’t.

I srsly miss monthly living world updates. Im really not a hardcore pve player but the living world in gw2 was that made me log in everyday and play the content. It was something different every month and that made it exciting. I could just enter the zone and start playing right away because the events were on going non-stop and didnt have long timeouts like the new heart of thorns zones have. I miss old times…

Ashen.2907:

Sartharina.3542:

you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

You might want to change that, “you,” to an, “I,” if you want to be honest and/or accurate. Perhaps you do not play GW2 for raids, and luckily raids receive only a very tiny portion of the game’s development resources, but others do.

So you think there are people that played GW2 for over 3 year only because of raids ?

Makes me wonder how many people play GW2 only because of its fantastic housing,
open PvP or flying mounts ^^

Beldin.5498:

Ashen.2907:

Sartharina.3542:

you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

You might want to change that, “you,” to an, “I,” if you want to be honest and/or accurate. Perhaps you do not play GW2 for raids, and luckily raids receive only a very tiny portion of the game’s development resources, but others do.

So you think there are people that played GW2 for over 3 year only because of raids ?

Makes me wonder how many people play GW2 only because of its fantastic housing,
open PvP or flying mounts ^^

No but do you actually think them adding to the game is a bad idea, because that’s what they did.

They filled a void in content for challenging instance content aimed at guilds/friends. There was nothing in the game for them, now there is.

There’s still the other 98% of the game for those that don’t want to raid.

I don’t see the game focusing on “hard core” players at all. I see the developers expanding the existing content to make a full and complete experience. Legendary weapon progression, increased mechanics in core Tyria (gliding), another WvW map. Skill and class re-balancing. Another PVP season and now difficult group-based content for dedicated players.

There’s a lot of marketing focus on the Raiding aspect of the game and it’s new wing, but that’s expected as it’s the latest content release and the designers want to see a lot of players experiencing it. It was the same way with each Living World update, WvW map and PVP season.

If you’ve completed all the content the game has to offer and are bored, waiting for something new… then you’ve probably been playing the game too much. If there’s lots of content but you don’t want to do any of it, you might be experiencing burn out. In either case, take a break. Play something else for a couple months and come back when the game has something that interests you. The great thing about GW2 is that it doesn’t demand your free time like a subscription MMO does.

Beldin.5498:

So you think there are people that played GW2 for over 3 year only because of raids ?

People started playing the game because they expected hard instanced content along with open world content. I don’t know how you missed pre-release and after-release blog posts about dungeons and what they were supposed to be.

An actual “Raid” was expected? No, but Orr was supposed to be an open world version of a Raid, not a “follow a colored tag and press 1 fast enough”. And explorable mode dungeons were supposed to be for those with expert knowledge of the game.

It’s more like people have been waiting for some years for that pre-release promise to come. Granted, at release dungeons were in fact hard because there was no experience with the combat system. So at least for a while it filled that gap.

Beldin.5498:

Ashen.2907:

Sartharina.3542:

you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

You might want to change that, “you,” to an, “I,” if you want to be honest and/or accurate. Perhaps you do not play GW2 for raids, and luckily raids receive only a very tiny portion of the game’s development resources, but others do.

So you think there are people that played GW2 for over 3 year only because of raids ?

Makes me wonder how many people play GW2 only because of its fantastic housing,
open PvP or flying mounts ^^

The Thing is Anet advertised the Game not only with Casual Friendly Open World but also Explorable Dungeons as Hardcore Content. Content for the ones who are willed to put in effort in their Builds, Organisation and etc..
The Raidwings we have now are what Dungeons were supposed to be.

TexZero.7910:

No but do you actually think them adding to the game is a bad idea, because that’s what they did.

If they want to aim the game towards my interests and keeping me as a happy customer, then yes. It is a bad idea, or at best a neutral one, depending on whether they put something sufficiently desirable behind it that it becomes difficult to just ignore. And development time spent is not free: those resources could potentially be diverted to other tasks which might interest more people.

Are there enough raiders that spending this time is worthwhile? No one but ArenaNet knows. I don’t think they are doing very well at keeping their core demographic supplied with things to do though, so maybe they should focus on that more instead of continuing to do new experiments.

From my perspective I honestly doubt that GW2 can attract enough raiders to make it worthwhile, as it seems rather basic compared to what raid-centric MMOs like WoW have to offer. But who knows.

Cherubael.8670:

TexZero.7910:

No but do you actually think them adding to the game is a bad idea, because that’s what they did.

If they want to aim the game towards my interests and keeping me as a happy customer, then yes. It is a bad idea, or at best a neutral one, depending on whether they put something sufficiently desirable behind it that it becomes difficult to just ignore. And development time spent is not free: those resources could potentially be diverted to other tasks which might interest more people.

Are there enough raiders that spending this time is worthwhile? No one but ArenaNet knows. I don’t think they are doing very well at keeping their core demographic supplied with things to do though, so maybe they should focus on that more instead of continuing to do new experiments.

From my perspective I honestly doubt that GW2 can attract enough raiders to make it worthwhile, as it seems rather basic compared to what raid-centric MMOs like WoW have to offer. But who knows.

It doesn’t have to attract any new raiders for it to be worth it, or are we going to ignore the call from the PvE community asking for harder content ?

We now have it.

That didn’t come at any hindrance to LS3, they are entirely different teams creating and telling those stories. That content is coming, in the later end of Q3 as has been stated by the CEO/Lead Game Designer now.

TexZero.7910:

Beldin.5498:

Ashen.2907:

Sartharina.3542:

you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

You might want to change that, “you,” to an, “I,” if you want to be honest and/or accurate. Perhaps you do not play GW2 for raids, and luckily raids receive only a very tiny portion of the game’s development resources, but others do.

So you think there are people that played GW2 for over 3 year only because of raids ?

Makes me wonder how many people play GW2 only because of its fantastic housing,
open PvP or flying mounts ^^

No but do you actually think them adding to the game is a bad idea, because that’s what they did.

They filled a void in content for challenging instance content aimed at guilds/friends. There was nothing in the game for them, now there is.

There’s still the other 98% of the game for those that don’t want to raid.

Oh yeah .. and those 98% payed for an expansion where there was only content
for those that wanted “challenging content” and nearly nothing for them, so
thanks for nothing for my 100€ and i now give my money to Gazillion.

So yes .. i think it was a very bad idea at least to do the thing i always warned off :
giving the raiders special rewards .. since in the end that is always the same,
first its … noo .. we only want the challenge .. and then suddenly : why should
i play that kitten if i don’t get special stuff to show off how godly great i am ?

But for me .. next they should also gate legendary weapons behind raids, why not.
Maybe delete all legendarys that exist from the unworthy casuals .. could only
be good for the game, since the raiders paid, so why should other have stuff ?

Sartharina.3542:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DGraves.3720:

Randulf.7614:

And yet those fraction still deserve content.

For all the times I’ve heard this I’ve never heard an actual justification.

They paid for the game, the same way the people who don’t want to raid did. Anyone who paid for the game can come here and ask for something they want. If ANet deems it wise to provide that something, they might do so. If ANet provides it, they’re acknowledging that that demographic is large enough to warrant some dev effort.

So when are they adding naked Charr skins? I bought the game, and I want naked charr skins available.

If you are thinking “OH HELL NO!” – well, welcome to the world of everyone else when Raids were announced for Guild Wars 2.

Raids do not belong in Guild Wars 2 any more than they belong in Call of Duty. You don’t go a high-end Steakhouse for discount fried chicken, and you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

You’re free to make a request for such, if that’s what you really want. People have asked for a myriad of things. Some of them have been added, some not.

ANet has iterated a lot of things. We’ve gone through LS1, then their approach changed to LS2. Then they switched to an XPac model. Reportedly, there will be a LS3 and a second XPac.

There was always an intent to provide content for those who like harder, more demanding instanced PvE. The first iteration, explorable dungeons, didn’t work out so well. FotM has scratched some of that itch, but ANet has not managed to add anything to FotM over long periods. Raids is just another iteration for those who like that type of content.

Hopefully by now Anet has realized that giving content to these casual players is a terrible idea and not worth the time. No matter what they do they will whine and complain. They dedicated an entire expansion to casual players and none of them bought it. Expansion sales were abysmal. They should instead focus on player that actually buy stuff and spend time in game. I.E raiders.

style.6173:

Now GW2 is following the same path. They are releasing new raid content which is of interest to a minority of the players, , and is mostly a once a week activity for most of those who actually do play it.

So, why is ANET going down this path? There is nothing wrong with adding raid wings. the problem is when it is the ONLY content being released.

That’s because it’s not the “only” content being released.

We always knew they were going to release new bits of HoT in stages, including Raids. I’m not sure why anyone is surprised that some updates include mostly changes to PvP, some changes to Raids, some for WvW, and some for HoT.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Hopefully by now Anet has realized that giving content to these casual players is a terrible idea and not worth the time. No matter what they do they will whine and complain. They dedicated an entire expansion to casual players and none of them bought it. Expansion sales were abysmal. They should instead focus on player that actually buy stuff and spend time in game. I.E raiders.

LOL, where are those sales figures? and BTW if they returned to and focused on the original concept of the game, the sales would have been through the roof (if they were actually shared). BTW what expansion did you buy? because it’s not the one everyone else bought.

The thing is Anet comes out to say they put very little resource in making raids.

If that’s the case, I really question what Anet is doing for the dungeon and fractal community for the past 3 years.

I really haven’t tried the raids, but I don’t think dungeon and raids are really the same thing. Dungeon difficulty is usually doable with pug. Raids you pretty much need an organized group. Else they could just call it 10 man dungeon, which Wow have when it first come out.

I think many dungeon and raid group overlap though. So if Anet really don’t want to put resource in the dungeon group, it’s probably necessary they make raids.

RAID !? = do you see Wildstar and EQN ? = DEAD

xeonage.1253:

RAID !? = do you see Wildstar and EQN ? = DEAD

Not because of raids, honey.

laokoko.7403:

The thing is Anet comes out to say they put very little resource in making raids.

If that’s the case, I really question what Anet is doing for the dungeon and fractal community for the past 3 years.

Nothing. Nearly every addition to dungeons has flopped, so they classified dungeons as cost-production inefficient and moved on.

That’s because their dungeons sucked badly from the get-go. From the linear game play to the uninspired mobs, nothing about it was interesting in the slightest. It’s no wonder they pretty much lost their appeal except for speed-running them for money. Sure, some people liked and still like them. That only proves there’s an audience for everything, however small.

Naw. Dungeons were fine, especially when run at the appropriate level. I remember joining groups struggling to get past generic silver enemies. You had to enter the lover’s crypt with a prayer, due to how often teams would wipe and wipe and quit out of frustration. The obliterated spider path from TA is still infamous to this day.

However, dungeons were designed assuming more random set of tactics. Anet didn’t expect players to LoS enemies into a corner and full zerker them down under a blind field, let alone after a series of player buffs and enemy nerfs and the later requirement that everyone be level 80.

They were boring as helll and utterly uninspired.

When I first did the Ascalon Catacombs, I was floored, in a complete state of disbelief. Was I really just fighting the exact same enemies as just outside the door, but with 10 times the health and dealing tons more damage? Where’s the fun in that? Turns out, there wasn’t any.

And the final reward, oh my that reward… a worthless generic hat that I couldn’t even salvage.

It took me over a year to bring myself to give dungeons another go. And the experience was exactly the same. Uninspired, linear game play that had nothing going for it. Boring, time-wasting combat, worthless rewards. To this day, I haven’t completed more than 4 paths, and that was because of guild peer pressure and honestly I was just going through the motions, hoping for it to end soon.

I absolutely understand why people sought exploits to cut down on completion times. The main difference between me and them is that I can’t be bothered with content I don’t like. I’m not going to find ways to mitigate the dislike. If I don’t like it, I don’t play it.

They really weren’t. Each enemy in the dungeons had specific mechanics that were meant to be used to beat them. Take Ascalon Catacombs for example. There, you were supposed to interrupt the breeders, stun break the scavengers, and dodge/engage the tunnelers at melee range. Even the ghosts themselves had nasty effects: you had to kite the warriors, reflect the rangers and mages, stay out of the AoEs of the necromancers and mages. To a bunch of level 35’s pre NPE with no formal organization, this was utter hell. I remember spending hours in that dungeon just trying to get to Colossus Rumblus.

It was only later that we figured out tactics (stack, corner pull, mass buff, blind spam) that neutralized most of the enemies, and still after that came a series of character buffs and enemy nerfs that rendered the dungeons non-challenging.

Well… it’s to late now because i’m playing black desert

I agree with Blood Red there. Dungeon were fine, but they were left in the dust and as the game progressed, the problems just pile up on them.

- Designed for low level, while players were downscaled is good when you launch the game, not so good years after the launch.

- Huge Power Creep. We can now do 3 times the dps than we used to do at release, not counting how better we got.

- Nerf, especially early in the game. CoF path 1 went from one of the hardest boss to the easiest.

I really hope they do something with dungeons and fractals and since we casuals can’t run these raids they need to get some new fractals or dungeons we have had the same ones now for 3 Years plus ………..