Guild Wars 2

Leo G.4501:

1. You underestimate the resources and boredom of people on the internet. Someone could throw a hundred or so votes out easy and you wouldn’t be able to tell.

It’s possible, but unlikely. Someone could strap a rocket to a pig and give truth to the saying “pigs fly” but nobody’s doing it because there’s nothing to gain out of it.

Did you tally up and report on the “I don’t know”s? I highly doubt the majority of people taking the poll have enough personal experience to make a well informed opinion on what is bad. Which leads to the last point…

You can see how many people voted “I don’t know” in each category, and it’s actually quite large in some cases.

I really don’t understand why people are so surprised by the results, and honestly, they are exactly what’s expected.

PvE is pretty easy for most people, so it makes sense that it had the highest balanced vote out of every category, although rangers and thieves makes sense because of how many of their weapons are single target damage (and the ones that aren’t have to have effectiveness/survival factored in).

Dungeons, of course rangers are the worst, people have been disallowing the ranger class into dungeons since the game launched, and rangers don’t bring anything to dungeons that other classes can’t.

WvW is going to have a split opinion, because half of people think zergs, in which any class with armor and a 1200 range weapon is going to be fine in, while the other half think organized and tactical, and on that front, both large scale and small scale, the best thing a ranger can do for a group is drop a healing spring. But they still suffer from lack of group support and build versatility, and BM rangers aren’t really desired in group play.

PvP, Warrior of course makes sense, and ranger definitely makes sense being in sense. The only build that was considered effective got whack-a-moled into being less effective, with no build versatility. Sure, BM rangers are still strong and can 1v1 on sidepoint just fine, but with a lack of AoE and group support, rangers bring absolutely nothing unique but their spirit elite to a team fight, and if you say traps, I’ll say nade Engi and even more than that now, staff necro.

So yes, the results actually highlight pretty closely what the state of balance the game is in. Sure people can argue bias, but at the same time, it can be argued that we’re all beta testers and this is our feedback. The larger the sample size, the less likely bias is a weighing factor, especially because everybody has a different bias (everybody has a different opinion).

So well done, this is definitely something that ANet needs to bring up in a meeting, all look at together, and try to figure out what they can fix.

jcbroe.4329:

So well done, this is definitely something that ANet needs to bring up in a meeting, all look at together, and try to figure out what they can fix.

If you think a survey like this is a good venue for that you’ll be disappointed. Rather they should (as they already do) read the forum threads that contain actual opinions and sometimes suggestions rather than thougtless clicks.

It’s also a self-evident truth that with such surveys, the classes with the highest wide appeal:ease to master discrepancy always fare the worst. Ranger isn’t one of them, they truly don’t have a role in PVE, but thieves (rogues) and elementalists (classic mages) fit that as seen here. Though with ele it has thankfully ebbed a bit since release.

Erasculio.2914:

The archetype thieves comes from is basically the “ganker” – the dual wielding low armor high damage profession meant to use stealth to gank unsuspecting people and run away quickly if the gank doesn’t work. It’s a concept suited for open world PvP, but it does look odd everywhere else.

Well you don’t have to play that way as thief.

Jamais vu.5284:

jcbroe.4329:

So well done, this is definitely something that ANet needs to bring up in a meeting, all look at together, and try to figure out what they can fix.

If you think a survey like this is a good venue for that you’ll be disappointed. Rather they should (as they already do) read the forum threads that contain actual opinions and sometimes suggestions rather than thougtless clicks.

It’s also a self-evident truth that with such surveys, the classes with the highest wide appeal:ease to master discrepancy always fare the worst. Ranger isn’t one of them, they truly don’t have a role in PVE, but thieves (rogues) and elementalists (classic mages) fit that as seen here. Though with ele it has thankfully ebbed a bit since release.

Erasculio.2914:

The archetype thieves comes from is basically the “ganker” – the dual wielding low armor high damage profession meant to use stealth to gank unsuspecting people and run away quickly if the gank doesn’t work. It’s a concept suited for open world PvP, but it does look odd everywhere else.

Well you don’t have to play that way as thief.

I would say the results actually show Elementalists, along with Guardians and Mesmers, are one of the “least worst” classes in the game.

as a ranger…this dosen’t surprise me at all

Mada.5319:

Ranger worst class in small scale wvw??? LOLOLOLOL
They’re one of the best in small scale combat!

Compared to all other classes they aren’t…

Also the numbers to me feel right, i’ve felt Ranger was bad since GW2 opened (compared to all other classes) this poll just confirms what i guessed to be true..

Big surprise there wasn’t more Engineer stats in there, maybe Engi’s didn’t see the poll..

Not sure how much Anet will care to be honest.

The solution to rangers being bad is to make their usable weapons even worse so that their bad weapons don’t look as bad by comparison. That’s the ArenaNet balance philosophy as stated in the recent State of the Game.

Leo G.4501:

Conncept.7638:

Leo G.4501:

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Leo G.4501:

SkyChef.5432:

Erasculio.2914:

OP, the issue with your poll is that it was done right after a huge nerf to rangers. It’s only to be expected that people would have a knee-jerk reaction and claim rangers are the world profession in the game.

…

That’s a speculation w/ confirmation bias undertone and no statistical importance attached to it. Secondly, you assume 45% of people voting out of 1500 voters are emotional less stable than you. Which I think you take yourself too seriously.
The OP could enhance his survey to cover that but ranger class was considered a poor class in dungeons and other contents even before the Search & Rescue fixed.

Please don’t pretend this poll proves anything. What you’re basically looking at is ‘forum consensus’ which is hardly analytical. And it’s not even the full forum consensus, just those that feel limited internet polls provide any statistical integrity.

I don’t think the results would be much different if the poll were conducted purely in game or on GW2G or reddit.

And what do you think you gain from gathering bias opinions?

Aren’t opinions, by definition, biased?

A bias is defined as prejudice in an unjust light. One should strive for unbiased opinion or at least express that one is being biased.

But there are several things that leave the poll unreliable:

1. You can vote as much as you want and skew the overall votes.

2. ‘Worst’ isn’t defined. Is it offensiveness? Defensiveness? Versatility? Concept? Aesthetics? Fun factor?

3. No background or processing of the votes. I could vote for Necromancer as worst in PvE because of the state of stacking conditions hindering their specialty, but then I’ve never played Necro and am basing my opinion on inexperience and ignorance.

4. Not everyone plays every part of the game.

5. The game just underwent large changes that changed the effectiveness of the professions.

I’ve got no problem with people taking a poll for fun and posting the results, but again, you can’t really expect it to be held as a significant data point.

Not in an unjust light, just prejudice, which can have evidence and real valid experience behind it. I’m prejudiced against murderers and rapists and thieves, is that viewpoint inherently unjust because I use the term prejudice? All opinions are fueled by feelings and knowledge for one thing or against another, rational and based in reality or otherwise, or in other words, bias. Unbiased opinion is a myth.

TheKillerAngel.3596:

You can see how many people voted “I don’t know” in each category, and it’s actually quite large in some cases.

And apparently it’s demonstratively unimportant to your analysis which skews its outcome. This likely also skews voters choices, making them more likely to jump to conclusions to help skew the results to reflect specific outcomes.

Conncept.7638:

Not in an unjust light, just prejudice, which can have evidence and real valid experience behind it. I’m prejudiced against murderers and rapists and thieves, is that viewpoint inherently unjust because I use the term prejudice? All opinions are fueled by feelings and knowledge for one thing or against another, rational and based in reality or otherwise, or in other words, bias. Unbiased opinion is a myth.

If you don’t understand the flaws in your analogy when referring to preference then there’s really no point in trying to help you understand.

Oddly if you think about it, the amount of QQ on thieves is actually quite accurate. Thieves suck in WvW large scale battles, but they do very well in small scale battles (at least not a lot voted thieves suck on small scale battles.). killerAngel, can you do a vote for the best any time soon?

i didn’t vote that thief is weak in small scale battles
but i did voted him for pve, zergs and top pvp

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Jamais vu.5284:

jcbroe.4329:

So well done, this is definitely something that ANet needs to bring up in a meeting, all look at together, and try to figure out what they can fix.

If you think a survey like this is a good venue for that you’ll be disappointed. Rather they should (as they already do) read the forum threads that contain actual opinions and sometimes suggestions rather than thougtless clicks.

It’s also a self-evident truth that with such surveys, the classes with the highest wide appeal:ease to master discrepancy always fare the worst. Ranger isn’t one of them, they truly don’t have a role in PVE, but thieves (rogues) and elementalists (classic mages) fit that as seen here. Though with ele it has thankfully ebbed a bit since release.

Erasculio.2914:

The archetype thieves comes from is basically the “ganker” – the dual wielding low armor high damage profession meant to use stealth to gank unsuspecting people and run away quickly if the gank doesn’t work. It’s a concept suited for open world PvP, but it does look odd everywhere else.

Well you don’t have to play that way as thief.

I would say the results actually show Elementalists, along with Guardians and Mesmers, are one of the “least worst” classes in the game.

Because they are. As a matter of fact, todays state of the game discussion (it is only a pvp discussion, but aspects of it trickle down into other parts of the game) showed the devs believing that Guardians are probably the best balanced and most well rounded class in the game in terms of the roles they can fulfill and what they can accomplish within the game.

The survey really does reflect with a decent amount of accuracy the state of the game for every profession in terms of balance versus the context of the content.

I think the results mostly reflect how I feel, though I strongly disagree with the rangers in open world PvE part.

Rangers have some really good farming options along with great movement and survivability in the open world. It was a little annoying (pre-patch) having pets tag you in-combat as you tried to run through areas, but other than that rangers are great in the open world.

next time make 3 surveys. worst in each group. 2nd worst in each group. 3rd worst. your results will be impecable.

Thx for the statistic.

1800 votes and 15% voted “Thief” as the worst dungeon profession… thats 270 players who have no idea what they are talking about.

I do not like this survey.

No surprises for anyone who regularly reads the forums. I have all the professions at 80 and play them all occasionally. The poll accurately reflects my thinking on balance and utility. And, I feel the poll results are an accurate representation of the thinking of the group it polled—the online community. For those who don’t keep up with the forums and third party sites, it could be helpful in demonstrating what the current thinking is around profession balance.

lol a dev needs to read this.

Molch.2078:

1800 votes and 15% voted “Thief” as the worst dungeon profession… thats 270 players who have no idea what they are talking about.

I do not like this survey.

Technically, it isn’t 1800 votes. It’s 1500. You can’t very well count people who answer “I don’t know” as a part of the consensus since that should be counted as the option of omitting your vote for a given category.

But it makes it even harder to take a poll seriously when those wholly backing it completely misinterpret the results.

Azure Prower.8701:

I find it amusing people think Thieves are the worst open world PVE class.

Forum readers base opinions on forums they have read – rather than play. This is also why the ranger comes in so low on opinions…

Erasculio.2914:

OP, the issue with your poll is that it was done right after a huge nerf to rangers.

If this was the Wiki we were back on, I’d tell you where to kitten your kitty kitt kitten like usual… but I guess this other response will have to do instead: look here old friend… … This was the same exact results for most of this content as before the patch as well. (except Necros were worse off then thieves b/c atleast thieves could solo stack more bleeds & backstab)

PvE vs sPvP still has HUGE INCONSISTENCIES when it comes to Conditions and everyone knows it. Anet claimed they were trying to address the conditions & traits balance but all they did is screw with PvP metas. IE: treated some Symptoms that only affected 5% of their player base daily. They did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to address the real causes of the Disparities & Discriminations

Molch.2078:

1800 votes and 15% voted “Thief” as the worst dungeon profession… thats 270 players who have no idea what they are talking about.

I do not like this survey.

That’s because Thief has a very high Skill Index in any locations that’s absolutely SPAMMED with AOE’s. Don’t lie and pretend like it’s not the case because that’s always been the case for every Ninja/Stealth/Rogue class since the beginning of RPG’s. Yes the DPA pay-off is huge for those who get lucky but most people aren’t that pro nor should they ever be exepected to be that flawless

I am surprised Ranger is ranked bad in WvW, I load up with lots of kills with my Ranger in WvW, but I am not pet focused either.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Oddly if you think about it, the amount of QQ on thieves is actually quite accurate. Thieves suck in WvW large scale battles, but they do very well in small scale battles (at least not a lot voted thieves suck on small scale battles.). killerAngel, can you do a vote for the best any time soon?

I will do a vote for the best.

Kichwas.7152:

Azure Prower.8701:

I find it amusing people think Thieves are the worst open world PVE class.

Forum readers base opinions on forums they have read – rather than play. This is also why the ranger comes in so low on opinions…

Having leveled a ranger, thief, warrior, mesmer, and guardian to 80 I can definitely agree that the ranger brings less to the table than these other 4 classes. I cannot think of 1 ranger utility skill that surpasses something like Wall of Reflection, Stand Your Ground, For Great Justice, or Portal Entre in terms of value. This would be acceptable if the Ranger had exceptional damage, but this simply is not the case outside of very specific environments.

Molch.2078:

1800 votes and 15% voted “Thief” as the worst dungeon profession… thats 270 players who have no idea what they are talking about.

I do not like this survey.

Anyone who voted Thief worst has never seen a Venom build perma-weaken bosses (and everything else… though the last trait changes nerfed this part away) through their anti-weakness buff, cause 2-3 seconds of stun every 30 seconds regardless of CC-immunity, etc.

I want to point out that people are inherently biased and you need to compensate for this when you run a pole like this.

For example if all 1800 people primarily play rangers then it would cause some serious skew in the data. In order for this data to be useful at all it would be good to know the distribution of classes played by the voters. You might even consider breaking things down by the perception each class has of the others. e.g. what do rangers, thieves, etc think of the other classes for each category (wvw, pve, etc..) ?

Leviathan.2061:

I want to point out that people are inherently biased and you need to compensate for this when you run a pole like this.

For example if all 1800 people primarily play rangers then it would cause some serious skew in the data. In order for this data to be useful at all it would be good to know the distribution of classes played by the voters. You might even consider breaking things down by the perception each class has of the others. e.g. what do rangers, thieves, etc think of the other classes for each category (wvw, pve, etc..) ?

Just saying something like that is a lot more biased… ironically enough.
…Why? B/c you’re pretending they don’t play any other classes that are much better suited for those areas voted on and couldn’t tell the difference. Guess what… they can

I have a ranger as my main char. I really enjoy it in PVE and my pet has manage to save me from near death countless times.

In sPVP I think ranger is a great cond dam class. The pets here are of little use as they get wiped out fast and provide little support / damage.

As far as dungeons I do feel that my pets are of no little use (without the rescue and revive feat) > I am unable to properly control them and they go rushing in to the mob, getting itself killed fast.

The same applies in WvW as far as pet management. However the fact that rangers can do ranged damage adds to their survivability.

I think rangers are a class in the middle of the scale. It has its pros and cons depending on the situation. Obvisouly that the pet maneaement system is not very effective other than in PVE and it may benefit with more cond removal but overall I like it.

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Kichwas.7152:

Azure Prower.8701:

I find it amusing people think Thieves are the worst open world PVE class.

Forum readers base opinions on forums they have read – rather than play. This is also why the ranger comes in so low on opinions…

Having leveled a ranger, thief, warrior, mesmer, and guardian to 80 I can definitely agree that the ranger brings less to the table than these other 4 classes.

Oh we’re counting 80s now?

Elementalist, Mesmer, Ranger, Guardian, Warrior, and Thief here. Engineer is close, Necromancer is just past halfway.

I come to the opposite conclusion.

But that’s fine – what I see a LOT of is people who say the class is weak, and then concede to not playing it, or not playing it for months, or show their playstyle flaws in their posts, such as the ones who admit they don’t know how to control their pet, or that it dies a lot from rushing in.

The folks who’s pets die a lot – that shows me the problem with ranger is a skill gap in the players who play it. Often their posts even show that they are not playing ranger, but Hunter. And if you try to play a hunter in this game, of course you will get subpar results…

Can we get Anet to see this? I’d really like a buff to rangers. My recommendation is less dmg from pets, more dmg from players. the ability to permanently stow the pet rather than until in combat(reason why they suck in dungeons) and changes to weapons: Sword should be more fluent rather than locking us into a combo attack, Longbow needs much more dmg and cooldown reduction, Shortbow needs more condition time, mainhand Axe needs more dmg considering in pve not many people find use out of the 3 skill maybe had an aoe burst on the #3 skill to keep with the aoe nature of the axe, greatsword is good for melee considering the block and evade but it doesn’t quite compare to the offhand axe for burst dmg. I like all of the offhand weapons currently. Also it was a total miss on adding rifles and pistols to our arsenal. A rifle with a dog as a pet. come oooon, I wanna be a sheriff.

Yeah Spirit rangers are one of the top builds in tpvp now, but the rest I agree with.

One big problem with the ranger for me, is the pet. I understand necro having mindless thralls, but Id like my pet on my ranger character to not feel like such a hinderance.
Also sword sucks. I end up fighting 10 guys cause I keep flopping around the map.

that’s what i’m saying with the sword! if u have autolocking on and not targeting someone u end up flying around and attacking everyone with the sword so it needs to be more fluent. I do use the sword but just because i love the offhand axe

With one, and ONLY one exception, there is absolutely nothing about the Ranger class that makes it a poor class compared to others. They are rock solid in sPvP, among the very best in over-world PvE, and hold their own quite well in WvW. Naturally, there are adjustments that need to be made, skills that need refinement and so forth — but this is true of every class in the game.

As to that one and ONLY exception, that’s obviously PvE dungeon grouping. But if/when Anet were to add a simple “dungeons ONLY pets take 50% less aoe damage” (or some other simple alternative like this) … then this too will become a non-issue.

Have to say with the much welcomed buff to necro’s I’m able to fight other builds, other professions on equal – ish grounds. I’m able to fully use a condition/dps build with soo much fun.. But i have to admit in wvw at least rangers would be the ones ive found easiest to kill. While saying that I have found lots of people still play em.. but also heared them dislike the recent nuke nurf they’ve had.