Guild Wars 2

This is a good master line for those who like to help without the need to get a commander tag. I suggested a long time ago that they expanded options for commanders and give different tags/icons for those who liked to help people in exactly the ways that this system will.

Now for the all important question – would/should they REMOVE the option for commanders to display their tag in PVE now?

Why should we see the map spammed with commander tags if they are not actually doing anything to help people? If they truly are there to help people and have their tag turned on for such and not just a status thing I say make them EARN it through this new mentor track.

Before anyone calls me jealous or whatever I have a commander tag and have had it for a very long time and got it without a guild helping with cash donations. I just think that this is a perfect opportunity to resolve the issue where commanders have their tags on when not needed in PVE.

I do know that commanders atm use their tags to help in PVE for daily events and such. So I would suggest that if they were to remove the commander tags in PVE that there should be a 1 week to 2 week grace AFTER HOT comes so that it gives people a chance to earn their mentor tag while still having those helpful in the community be able to continue to use their commander tags until then.

Thoughts?

Edit (one last point I thought about after creating this OP):

One more point that I would like to make is that this new feature is of course going to be taken advantage of by a LOT of people. And I DO expect that people will use the icon just to show up on the map and never help people. But taking that info in we then have to ask ourselves “do we want both Mentor AND Commander tags/icons doing this?” Just imagine all the icons all over the place. At least with what I am offering here and if Anet did take the commander tags out of PVE that could help somewhat with some of the “spammed” icons.

Just something else to think about.

Some good points but I’ll mention that the commander tag lets you make a squad whereas the mentor tag does not. This matters if you are coordinating an RP event with people from multiple guilds; you really do need an OOC chat channel to do that.

If they create the ability to make custom chats, and give us a way to distinguish between all the mentors on the map like we do with color coded commanders, then sure. Mentor tags could well replace commander ones. Though even then there should be a longish heads up, and an overlap. After all, people have to divert their mastery resources to becoming a mentor when they might really want to learn some good gliding tricks first.

Mentor tag shows that you want to help people. Completly different from commanding.

Commanders are often helping, not in LA but out in the world we usually are.

Malediktus.9250:

Mentor tag shows that you want to help people. Completly different from commanding.

This is why the mentor tag needs to have at least the same functions as the commander tag that have been used to adapt it to helping. Perhaps even more refined versions targeted specifically for the purpose.

I think you may be putting too high an expectation for the pact commander mastery track, there are going to be people who earn that just to have a tag without any intention of actually mentoring, just like have been people who grind enough gold to get a commander tag without any intention of actually commanding.

The problem will persist, what you’re proposing only temporarily suppresses it for the grace period and at the expense of people who paid for their commander tags.

The first mastery line in the Pact commander track that gives the tag should be moved much higher in the tiers, it will be far to easy to get and then be abused, by moving it to a higher tier then that person has at least proven a little bit more that they put some work into it, right now they may as well just hand it to you when you log in.

Donari.5237:

Some good points but I’ll mention that the commander tag lets you make a squad whereas the mentor tag does not. This matters if you are coordinating an RP event with people from multiple guilds; you really do need an OOC chat channel to do that.

If they create the ability to make custom chats, and give us a way to distinguish between all the mentors on the map like we do with color coded commanders, then sure. Mentor tags could well replace commander ones. Though even then there should be a longish heads up, and an overlap. After all, people have to divert their mastery resources to becoming a mentor when they might really want to learn some good gliding tricks first.

While it is true that Commanders can make squads I wonder if many do in PVE? Of course Anet would have the data for that info so perhaps they could add this feature or a similar to the mentor system. As for your example of multi guilds adventuring together perhaps this will be addressed with the incoming alliance of guilds that has been mentioned. If not it should certainly be looked at!

I could agree that the grace period I suggested could be increased maybe out to a month. Of course if Anet had planned to go down this road or decide to they would have plenty of time to warn us before HOT comes.

As for people choosing gliding/whatever over the Mentor track that will of course be each persons choice. I should say however that for those players who like to spend the majority of their time doing their own thing or helping others I shouldn’t see this being an issue for those players. Also it is the first track so it would not take very long to earn.

Thanks for your points.

Malediktus.9250:

Mentor tag shows that you want to help people. Completly different from commanding.

Yes and commanding tags were implemented to “command” people in WvW. Of course that obviously has spilled over to PVE because as such we have had no alternative until now. So that is my whole point.

emikochan.8504:

Commanders are often helping, not in LA but out in the world we usually are.

Yup and I am one of them which is why I addressed this in my post.

Pandaman.4758:

I think you may be putting too high an expectation for the pact commander mastery track, there are going to be people who earn that just to have a tag without any intention of actually mentoring, just like have been people who grind enough gold to get a commander tag without any intention of actually commanding.

The problem will persist, what you’re proposing only temporarily suppresses it for the grace period and at the expense of people who paid for their commander tags.

Too high an expectation? I don’t think so, not in the hands of the right people who get the tag and use it correctly. There will be a system in place to report those who abuse the system from what I heard.

As for those who may view this as “wasted cash” who have bought the tag in the past I can already see future posts incoming complaining about this. “waaaa waaaa I bought a commander tag so I can help people in PVE now I could have done that for free!” You know it’s gonna come as more and more people catch wind of this track. By saying this I am not insulting any who actually do help people in PVE and use the commander tag for great effect. But you know those “status players” will complain in the exact same way. And they more than likely will ask for a gold refund.

For these people I would hate to use the “refund” word but perhaps that is something that could be looked at, especially for people who have NEVER commanded in WVW. That would have to be up to Anet of course tho.

Thanks for your input.

Vavume.8065:

The first mastery line in the Pact commander track that gives the tag should be moved much higher in the tiers, it will be far to easy to get and then be abused, by moving it to a higher tier then that person has at least proven a little bit more that they put some work into it, right now they may as well just hand it to you when you log in.

I’m not sure that even if they move it to the end of the track that it would still take that much time to earn. But still you are right, it would take a bit more effort and not be just seen as a super easy way to get a cool looking “status” tag for map spamming.

One more point that I would like to make is that this new feature is of course going to be taken advantage of by a LOT of people. And I DO expect that people will use the icon just to show up on the map and never help people. But taking that info in we then have to ask ourselves “do we want both Mentor AND Commander tags/icons doing this?” Just imagine all the icons all over the place. At least with what I am offering here and if Anet did take the commander tags out of PVE that could help somewhat with some of the “spammed” icons.

Just something else to think about.

Edit: gonna add this to my OP.

Paulytnz.7619:

While it is true that Commanders can make squads I wonder if many do in PVE? Of course Anet would have the data for that info so perhaps they could add this feature or a similar to the mentor system. As for your example of multi guilds adventuring together perhaps this will be addressed with the incoming alliance of guilds that has been mentioned. If not it should certainly be looked at!

I know that as the only one in my guild with a tag, I’ve used the squad every time we’ve done an RP thing with participants not in the guild. The coming cross guild chat sounds more like each individual can see all their own guild chats at once. That won’t help if you need a discussion chat channel and the players don’t have overlapping guilds.

Really, the best answer is to make custom chat channels. You create and name the chat, you tell the people you want in it what it is named, they join the chat. That allows much more organic grouping of discussions as people can form interest groups, temporary coordination groups, etc. There can be issues of moderation, but these have been solved in many MMO’s already.

Failing that, the mentor tag needs to include a way to get a lot of people in focused conversation that isn’t map wide or in public /say or /em without them having to join a guild or go into an instance to avoid mixing up all the chat spam.

emikochan.8504:

Commanders are often helping, not in LA but out in the world we usually are.

I’ve used commander tags in LA as well. When my guild was on the karka hunt, it allowed a bigger group to all see where we were, and the same with some of the jumping puzzle events we did. Though I agree you don’t need a tag to stand around the bank, or a crafting table.

Vayne.8563:

emikochan.8504:

Commanders are often helping, not in LA but out in the world we usually are.

I’ve used commander tags in LA as well. When my guild was on the karka hunt, it allowed a bigger group to all see where we were, and the same with some of the jumping puzzle events we did. Though I agree you don’t need a tag to stand around the bank, or a crafting table.

Even so, most people who are tagged up in LA at merchants/crafting stations are doing so because the just led an event and forgot to tag down. I whisper these people (or tag up and run towards them) and they quickly tag down.

Very few people are tagged up to show off their tag. Commander tags are old news now. The novelty has worn off. :P

So here’s the argument, from what I understand:
-Get rid of tags in PvE (or especially cities) as they aren’t needed and abused.
-Commander tags are useful in cities when it comes to organising events, showing people where particular vendors/sites/banners are and to organise community events.

Why get rid of something beneficial if it’s not harming anybody?

Donari.5237:

Paulytnz.7619:

While it is true that Commanders can make squads I wonder if many do in PVE? Of course Anet would have the data for that info so perhaps they could add this feature or a similar to the mentor system. As for your example of multi guilds adventuring together perhaps this will be addressed with the incoming alliance of guilds that has been mentioned. If not it should certainly be looked at!

I know that as the only one in my guild with a tag, I’ve used the squad every time we’ve done an RP thing with participants not in the guild. The coming cross guild chat sounds more like each individual can see all their own guild chats at once. That won’t help if you need a discussion chat channel and the players don’t have overlapping guilds.

Really, the best answer is to make custom chat channels. You create and name the chat, you tell the people you want in it what it is named, they join the chat. That allows much more organic grouping of discussions as people can form interest groups, temporary coordination groups, etc. There can be issues of moderation, but these have been solved in many MMO’s already.

Failing that, the mentor tag needs to include a way to get a lot of people in focused conversation that isn’t map wide or in public /say or /em without them having to join a guild or go into an instance to avoid mixing up all the chat spam.

Sounds like they would certainly need to add some sort of a chat channel system to the mentor tag/system. Otherwise it’s simply not as good as a commander tag in the types of situations you are mentioning. Which would then beg the question why even bother with the mentor system if they would still expect commander tags/squad functions to handle the more “advanced” forms of organizing groups/events?

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Vayne.8563:

emikochan.8504:

Commanders are often helping, not in LA but out in the world we usually are.

I’ve used commander tags in LA as well. When my guild was on the karka hunt, it allowed a bigger group to all see where we were, and the same with some of the jumping puzzle events we did. Though I agree you don’t need a tag to stand around the bank, or a crafting table.

Even so, most people who are tagged up in LA at merchants/crafting stations are doing so because the just led an event and forgot to tag down. I whisper these people (or tag up and run towards them) and they quickly tag down.

Very few people are tagged up to show off their tag. Commander tags are old news now. The novelty has worn off. :P

So here’s the argument, from what I understand:
-Get rid of tags in PvE (or especially cities) as they aren’t needed and abused.
-Commander tags are useful in cities when it comes to organising events, showing people where particular vendors/sites/banners are and to organise community events.

Why get rid of something beneficial if it’s not harming anybody?

Did you see the shape/size of the mentor icon? From what I recall its a purple-ish star * type thing. One of my concerns already is that a nearby commander’s icon could easily cover it. This would be a troll’s dream come true for fun and giggles.

You mentioned that one reason there are so many commander tags in cities is because people forget to tag down. This is easily understandable and an acceptable reason/excuse. So if anything what I am suggesting here would do nothing more but to help assist these people by taking out the NEED to remember all the time to tag down as the system would just auto do it for them. Brilliant bonus there, it would even save you some work from whispering all these forgetful commanders all the time.

To answer Why get rid of something beneficial if it’s not harming anybody? as I have previously said it would help to decrease possible troll situations as well as remove the clutter of so many icons/tags on the map as you can bet there will be a lot of mentor ones.

Yes commander tags could still be helpful, but honestly why have 2 things to do 1 function? If people want to help and be an organizer they have very little work to do in getting the mentor icon. I can only see a win win for this.

From what you’re saying, you have a problem with the Commander Tag because people don’t use it for commanding. So you’re suggesting to drastically change the system (or remove it all together), because people are using it for content that doesn’t need to be “Commanded”. At least, to me, this is how your argument is perceived.

So surely the solution wouldn’t be to remove all these useful features that come with the Commander Tag, but just to change its name.Considering these people are usually “leading/directing the way” for people, or leading parties, perhaps we should be calling the Commander Tags “Leader Tags” or “Directors”.

Sorry Paulytnz, I just don’t see the problem. Removing people’s ability to use Comm tags in PvE would be detrimental to the game. I don’t see the benefit or necessity of removing them as they really aren’t posing any disadvantages. Many people (like me) bought the tag specifically to be able to help players in PvE. Some people might prefer to use these tags over the mentor tags because they don’t want to complete the Pact Commander Mastery, or priorities other Masteries first. Perhaps Tags and Mentor Pins will develop their own “niches” and are used in separate circumstances for convenience.

Sorry if I understood your argument incorrectly!

EDIT to respond to the latest reply:

-The Purple Star icon is not the icon we will be getting at HoT. It is simply a placeholder icon for the moment. It will be changed as it is the same icon as the LS2 instance location icon.

-Maybe I’m very oblivious or playing a different game to you, but I can’t actually remember the last time I saw a “troll commander”. If somebody was following a person around to try and hide their Mentor Tag, they’d effectively be harassing them which is certainly reportable. If there was a commander that was trying to get people to follow them, I’d either: join the squad of the commander I want to follow (so I can’t see other commanders on the map) or just ignore them and alert map chat that the guy is just tagged up for the sake of it.

-How is your solution going to help your proposed problems?

-Both will have different functions. Let’s say I was in Sparkfly Fen, Tequatl is just about to spawn. There are 4 commanders up, as usual. I’m a new player and I have no idea what to do… but luckily there are a few people with mentor tags standing around the spawn area. “Excellent!” I say to myself, “I can just whisper/party up with one of these kind people to explain the event to me”. And they do, and this way I’m not distracting the commanders from commanding, but these people can show me exactly where to stand and what to do for the duration of the event.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

From what you’re saying, you have a problem with the Commander Tag because people don’t use it for commanding. So you’re suggesting to drastically change the system (or remove it all together), because people are using it for content that doesn’t need to be “Commanded”. At least, to me, this is how your argument is perceived.

So surely the solution wouldn’t be to remove all these useful features that come with the Commander Tag, but just to change its name.Considering these people are usually “leading/directing the way” for people, or leading parties, perhaps we should be calling the Commander Tags “Leader Tags” or “Directors”.

Sorry Paulytnz, I just don’t see the problem. Removing people’s ability to use Comm tags in PvE would be detrimental to the game. I don’t see the benefit or necessity of removing them as they really aren’t posing any disadvantages. Many people (like me) bought the tag specifically to be able to help players in PvE. Some people might prefer to use these tags over the mentor tags because they don’t want to complete the Pact Commander Mastery, or priorities other Masteries first. Perhaps Tags and Mentor Pins will develop their own “niches” and are used in separate circumstances for convenience.

Sorry if I understood your argument incorrectly!

To reply to paragraph 1: For some time now many people have been asking on the forums to remove commander tags from PVE altogether or to give a hide system. All I am saying is with the incoming mentor system there should be no need any more for the commander tag/icons in PVE. As this is what the mentoring system is intended for. Sure the mentor system (as was shown to us so far) may have less functions than the current commander system does but they can address that if need be. I have totally no problems with how commander tags are being used right now in PVE unless of course they are being used for grieving. I just don’t see the need for both once this comes in.

Paragraph 2: If people that do these things now still wish to play this way then they certainly can. Do you really think it is going to take much effort in earning the mentor icon? Hey it’s not me bringing this new system into the game. Why not ask Anet why they are even bothering to since commander tags already exist and can perform the same function and even more so. Why not ask Anet to not bring it in at all?

Paragraph 3: I am sorry if your “status item” might be at risk of being taken away from you. That is if I am reading this paragraph correctly (sorry if not!). I am sorry that you may have to put in a little more work and effort to earn the mentor track if you want that icon/benefit of helping people in PVE again. Heck everyone else will have to work for it why not commanders too!? After all, that’s the ENTIRE point of that mastery. Who knows, you could ask for a refund!?

I do not agree that removing commander tags from PvE would be detrimental to the game at all. As there would be a new system replacing it. Commander tags were made for WvW after all and we have needed for a long time now a completely different option for PvE. If need be and in fact I would suggest (as I have in the past) there to be different icons for the mentor system to be able to facilitate separate circumstances for convenience and situations in PE. Example there could be an icon specifically for leading JP groups, another for general enquires, another to lead event/champ trains. With a little more thought and effort this whole idea/system could be totally improved into something we can’t even imagine right now (ie uber, awesome fantastic I can’t believe they did not think of that when they first released this game!). If this was the case I certainly would not want the commander tags/icons on the map as well. It would just be an eyesore and too confusing to read everything, especially for new players……you know people are going to start asking “what’s the difference between the commander and mentor icons, why even have both?”

Oh boy you edited your post as I was typing my reply, I don’t even know if I have the patience or energy to edit mine to respond to yours lol. I will leave this posting here for now so I can come back to edit once I have read it and thought up my replies. :P

Crimson Clouds.4853:

EDIT to respond to the latest reply:

-The Purple Star icon is not the icon we will be getting at HoT. It is simply a placeholder icon for the moment. It will be changed as it is the same icon as the LS2 instance location icon.

-Maybe I’m very oblivious or playing a different game to you, but I can’t actually remember the last time I saw a “troll commander”. If somebody was following a person around to try and hide their Mentor Tag, they’d effectively be harassing them which is certainly reportable. If there was a commander that was trying to get people to follow them, I’d either: join the squad of the commander I want to follow (so I can’t see other commanders on the map) or just ignore them and alert map chat that the guy is just tagged up for the sake of it.

-How is your solution going to help your proposed problems?

-Both will have different functions. Let’s say I was in Sparkfly Fen, Tequatl is just about to spawn. There are 4 commanders up, as usual. I’m a new player and I have no idea what to do… but luckily there are a few people with mentor tags standing around the spawn area. “Excellent!” I say to myself, “I can just whisper/party up with one of these kind people to explain the event to me”. And they do, and this way I’m not distracting the commanders from commanding, but these people can show me exactly where to stand and what to do for the duration of the event.

Okay great so it’s not going to be that * star thingy. Now they just have to add a few more different icons (as I have suggested above) for different situations/purposes as well as add all the different colours (as well as adding green!) to add even more tools to the kitten nal.

You are right I have not seen too many people abusing the commander icon and TBH I am not even too worried about this (for the commander icon). But you know commanders did spend a big sum of cash to get that icon, do you really think people would abuse it that much if they risked losing it and the gold spent? However I had to touch on this since they did in the POI themselves with regards to trolling from the mentor icon. Now with regards to the mentor icon there is a real risk of people trolling with this as it will be far easier to obtain and very little lost if it is taken away from them if they abuse it.

I am more concerned about having too many icons on the map. Heck today going to one of the maps for daily there were no less than 10+ commander icons in the one map. I can just imagine this doubling or even tripling with the mentor icons since they will be far easier to obtain. So really do we want to see both?

How is your solution going to help your proposed problems?

Like I just said, cutting out commander tags is one step in reducing the amount of icons on the map. It may also actually stop those who use it as a status symbol as they may be too lazy to obtain the mentor icon but I doubt that…
But still, cutting out the com tag with all the incoming mentor tags would probably be something far bigger than we can imagine right now.

As for the sparkfly example. You paint a good compromise and example of how both can work together. But again I would prefer my suggested various mentor icons for this. For example one could be a question mark “?” for general enquires as you gave in your example the new player asking for the basics. Another icon could be for example a boss icon generally used to lead champ trains. These could be to lead the boat groups etc. Add to this the different colours as I gave above you could have 4 boss leaders with dif colours so you know where to go. As well as a fifth leader (possibly a totally different icon) for the main Teq assault team.

Now obviously in my suggestion it would be intended for far more functions than this boss event as you can imagine. Would you not agree having various symbols (more than 2 from just a single mentor and commander icon) for various functions be far better? Sure this would take a bit more work but as I said above the pay off could be far, far, far greater than what we could imagine right now.

Some that I could think of right now:

? – General info which would not take too much time or effort to provide, you may not even have to move from your spot.

A skull or monster icon – For leading groups to hunt world bosses/champs.

A foot icon – JP team leaders.

A star or something similar – Event leaders. IE an event pops up where you happen to be right now and you are in the map for daily events, pop your star icon to show people where an event is.

I’m sure people far more clever than me could come up with more. Add the different colours to these and you can have multiple groups being led. For example some maps have more than 1 JP. 2 different colours here would be great on the foot icon for 2 different teams being taken.

These ideas could come much later (if it would be too much work for them right now) and in the mean time your idea of both commander and mentor icons working together could be a good compromise. I would def prefer something like I suggest in the long run and I REALLY hope Anet sees this and takes it on board. Because as I said, this mentor system could REALLY turn into something far, far, far greater. This is a good opportunity to add a really cool, helpful feature, why throw that chance away at making a good idea a great one?

I feel I need to put my own remark in here, with regards to the idea of removing commander tags in PvE.

I come from a large community who regularly organise runs of tequatl and triple trouble wurm. And while I admit tequatl could be done without the tags, TT would be near to impossible.

The tags provide a key focus for directing the players and keeping them from getting side-tracked during the event and costing valuable time. We use the /supplyinfo command to count the players on our stacks, ensuring that the 3 teams are balanced so that one head or another won’t overscale and become a massive mess of 2x the number of Veteran Jungle Wurms mauling the husk-killer and egg-blocking parties (which would mean numbers of larvae and husks running around the area murdering people and making it even worse). Many commanders use the squad chat to pass wurm-specific skill arrangements to their team so they don’t confuse the players at the other two stacks. Also, as someone pointed out above, the purple star of the mentor tag is smaller than the com tag, and during TT the commander tags can already become harder to see especially in phase 2.

I also point out that my guild uses the tags to coordinate our guild missions. when we find a bounty target, but we’re spread out, those of us at the target tag up with a set arrangement of colours (different from any mixture elsewhere on the map that may be there). that way we can say “look for the 2 red, 1 blue, and a yellow together” and then ping the nearest waypoint. It’s much faster than asking guild members to mouse over the com tags on map looking for a specific person.

Also, can you imagine trying to write something on the map with mentor tags after a community get together or event, instead of the glorious mash of colours from the commander tags?

Anyways, lastly I’ll point out something that was said in the stream when the possibility of trolling was mentioned about the mentor tag.

There are features in game to report those who use tags to troll, and so there is no reason to place restrictions on tags that will punish those who use them for good/helpful things. Being annoyed that someone is tagged up, even if it is to “show off”, is no fair or good reason to strip the ability from those who use them properly.

And that’s my two-cents

I don’t think that Commander Tags should be removed.

I also think that your proposal for so many different tags is rather complicated, both in regards to implementation and player recognition.

Regardless of my thoughts, good luck.

since the new icon will be easy to get (leveling a lv 1 mastery track does not take long) we can expect it many to get it and use it for no reason. Infact, the 300 gold limit on commander tags usually keeps those who only want to show off a tag away from it.

Therefore, disabeling commander tags is the last thing we should want to do. Right now when there are more tags on a map you can usually pick a collor that stands out and call out in mapchat to draw players in to you for the event you want to guide/command.

If we indeed get a load of the mentor tags up for no good reason, you can not use your mentor tag to guide events at all, since you will be lost in all the others. So i expect that we will need the commander tags more then ever, as they will still stand out.

Also to be honest i hardly see an over use of commander tags in PvE. Usually when you see a lot is when guild events are being done as they serve as a beacon to show all guild members they are on the right map ‘copy’ for the event. For the rest i do not see an overuse of Tags in PvE, most are actually pointing out events/champ trains. sure some in cities are taged up for no good reason but usually its no more than 5 or so (and most simply forgot to turn it off).

Further more i would also use them in a different way. When i tag on baltazar events i would always use my commander tag is i’m then ‘commanding’ that event (mainly the last leg from rally waypoint to the boss) during that i’m also playing and do not have time to answer specific questions of players about the event.

When i just like to help out and chat about it, answer questions in between, then i would use the mentor badge.

For this i do feel that commander tags have a place in PVE and should stay as it is.

My guild uses different coloured Commander Tags while doing Guild Missions. I bought my commander Tag mostly to be able to lead my Guild when we are playing PvE. I have used it in SilverWastes as it is a really good way to see what keep you are protecting. Removing commander tag from PvE would be realy bad. Also I am one of those who realy likes to help people so I am probably going to go for Pact Commander first.

I am going to add a suggestion with this Mentor thing: I would like players to be able to ‘/ratementor “PlayerName” #’ to give a + to a mentor (But only once ever).
The more + the mentor gets the more the mentors star shines, this star will fade alittle each day so the mentor will need to get more + from new players to make it shine again. This does nothing special more than a shining star at the map and players will see that this mentor is actually helping. Well the propability that the pleyer is helpfull is higher atleast.

Mentor tags show that you are willing to help players. Commander tags are used for organization during events. They are two very different functions that, despite seeming similar in some ways, should not be confused for one another.

If you tag up during Tripple Wurm, for example, you don’t want players around the map messaging you to help them with a skill point or asking you about what build they should use for their class while you’re actually trying to communicate with others and direct a large scale offensive. You don’t want to create a situation where you’re rejecting new players who are asking for help thinking that your tag exists as an invitation for them to do so, only to then put other mentors in a bad light by creating a situation where players believe that you’re not actually there to help them and only there to organize some map event.

In addition to that, commanders in PvE often use different colours for different groups in events, so that they can coordinate more easily. They’ll say things like “only ranged at red tag”, etc, and during Tequatl, people also tend to follow different tag colours to their respective defensive positions during defensive phases. If everyone is just using mentor tags that all look the same, coordinating will become much more difficult.

In the end, the two features should remain separate, if only to avoid a lot of grief for those organizing events, and for those simply trying to look for help.

Paulytnz.7619:

Malediktus.9250:

Mentor tag shows that you want to help people. Completly different from commanding.

Yes and commanding tags were implemented to “command” people in WvW. Of course that obviously has spilled over to PVE because as such we have had no alternative until now. So that is my whole point.

So the whole 4 color commander tag IDENTICAL to the fort colors in Silverwastes is unintentional?
Commander tags are and always will be a huge part of open-world massive event PvE.
It was never designed to be WvW exclusive.

Removing commander tags would be a very bad move.

I don’t want to run around with a tag that means I’m there to help people – maybe I’m not. Maybe I’m just trying to create a rally point for CERTAIN people to do a certain thing – that doesn’t mean I’m there to help and answer everyone.

There are plenty of useless commanders running around but that doesn’t really matter. Hopefully that won’t be the case with mentors.

That is why I have a commander tag too, to help in PVE. I wished there had been another solution to designate mentors but I bought a commander tag to solely do that (a bit overpriced to do just that but oh well). I find it extremely handy to organize events (also suggesting people running various teams to use commander tags too so we can ID things by what color tag).

I am not sure if 2 weeks is sufficient though. We need to see how long it takes to earn the tag (especially if you are not in the new regions much) before we can say. I would hope mentors would use the mentor tag unless they actually are commanding (running an event is part commander part mentor so not sure what you would call that). I also wonder what about those of us that bought a commander tag because of the mentor tag, so it will now be pointless. Until I can show either tag on the map I would rather not have them always off as I /map ‘if you need help look for the (color) arrow’. Make it a preference that defaults to on so new people see it.

As to colors meaning different things: I was never told what each meant. I just try not to use a color that is nearby.

Thanks for all your replies guys. There are very valid points in them and I do not dismiss them. So after reading them all I decided it would be a good idea for me to go back and watch the POI video again just to make sure I was seeing everything that they had to say about this incoming feature and got what they were trying to do with it. It’s just a shame that I saw it too late and did not have a chance to throw questions at them myself but oh well.

So after going back and re-watching this is a few key points I got out of it:

1 – You do get a map icon to help direct people your way. It should display your name (if moused over) and at this stage not confirmed what the icon will be or if it will clash with any nearby commander tag intentional or not. It was NOT meant to replace the commander tag or even be on par with it, more of a stepping stone or from what I gather a rank below so to speak.

2 – You also get a chat message icon and the word mentor before your name so that people know you are there to help and are in that mode currently.

3 – The intent of the line in general was to help helpful players (who are already doing these things in game) by adding a few “social tools”. The tools I take it are the icon, chat icon/mentor word. Obviously for players who like to help others in many various ways.

4 – It wont work in WvW, which is another concern that I had so this is good this was clarified.

5 – Party members get a swiftness buff in cities.

So having clarified all of this I would say that it would be unlikely at this point that they would remove the com tag from PvE. Which tbh was something I was on the fence about myself although some of you may have got a different impression about that. I thought the question should be put out there and the matter discussed either way.

Having said all of that I do still believe that having a few extra options in that “social tool set” would be very helpful in the intended purpose of this new feature. I will give a few examples here in bullet form since I read that is how anet prefer to see ideas lol.

1 – Possibly a few different icons as I have suggested for different purposes and/or different colours (see above posts for a few examples).

2 – Mousing over the player’s name on the map could also display some small text info that the player could imput somewhere. A small message such as “JP Helper”, “General questions”, etc. These could be input by the player in a small chat box or could be preset options added by anet.

3 – Less frequency of suppressed messages in chat. After all what good is the chat icon and “mentor” title if the person’s messages are blocked due to too much talking? If the suggestion above this one (mousing over player’s name on map shows extra info) is not added you can be sure the person will have to advertise their current purpose/role for them to be able to actually help anyone. Especially if they are trying to do some specific task (say lead a JP run for example) and may be competing with other mentors adverts. So less chat suppression would be very helpful.

I guess that’s all I have for now. Thanks again for all replies and points made. If anyone has anything else to add here feel free to do so as I am sure there could be other views on this for or against what I originally posted as well as for any of my suggestions.

I like the idea of adding in a commander tag that is guild-only (ie: only guild members can see). We don’t have a green tag after all nudge nudge

As long as not all tags are guild-only. I have done PVE trains with a different guild and it would be a royal pain if I could not glance at the map and get an idea where everyone was before we started attacking the champ.

No, I payed for my commander tag and I will and should be able to use it even if I am just standing still for an hour.

Dinks.2478:

No, I payed for my commander tag and I will and should be able to use it even if I am just standing still for an hour.

This is a poor attitude to have and a classic example of how tags are being misused already. I really hope you are trying to be funny or sarcastic here….

Paulytnz.7619:

Dinks.2478:

No, I payed for my commander tag and I will and should be able to use it even if I am just standing still for an hour.

This is a poor attitude to have and a classic example of how tags are being misused already. I really hope you are trying to be funny or sarcastic here….

No joke ,its a lot of gold and for you to try and have it disabled in 90% of the game is the real joke.

I have to say I’m confused how someone standing still is ‘misusing’ a Commander Tag and having a ‘poor attitude’.

If the complaint is too many tags on a map, then maybe a request for tools to select which/how many tags we see on the mini-map would be more appropriate.

I not fathoming how just standing still hurts anyone. But, that’s just me. /shrug

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to say I’m confused how someone standing still is ‘misusing’ a Commander Tag and having a ‘poor attitude’.

If the complaint is too many tags on a map, then maybe a request for tools to select which/how many tags we see on the mini-map would be more appropriate.

I not fathoming how just standing still hurts anyone. But, that’s just me. /shrug

Well that would depend on the map the person is in, the area and if anything on the map nearby is being hidden by the commander tag. I have seen people use their tag to cover up certain things before.

Heck I had my tag on in a city a total of just ONE time the entire 3 years I have had it. And that was to help players do the task to earn that torch item and I got abused in map chat by one person simply because I was covering up something nearby without knowing. You can bet I made sure to NEVER have it up in a city again unless I am being very specific and helping with it. Being idle is just not a good practice imo…

Sounds like the Pact Commander tag/icon may pose the same problem. Again, it may behoove players to obtain tools to remove said icons from the map, rather than be forced to forego displaying them.

I would rather keep it in PVE. I do not use it in WvW since it would just clutter the map so not letting me use it in PVE would be saying I had wasted 300 gold.

My main original reason for getting it was mentoring and yes, the mentor tag would work just fine there. There are two other places though and both I use regularly: everyone turns it on in many champ trains to tell who is where and people organizing events need it for coordination. In neither case would I want someone asking me questions so a mentor tag is certainly a needed option (I probably would have skipped buying the commander tag if I knew we would have one) to complement a commander tag.

At the moment I use my commander tag for mentoring. I often tell people if they see a colored arrow in a low level area they should feel free to ask questions of that person.

The problem is one of people abusing either tag as a status symbol. I am not sure how you could fix that, even if you made it reportable how could you prove it?

side comment: I use another virtual space where everyone is represented by an icon on the map. Not only do people not complain but many would yell if it were removed since a bunch of those icons all clustered together means high odds that something is going on there.