Guild Wars 2

zamalek.2154:

Galen Grey.4709:

bigger stuff.

And does “bigger stuff” explicitly means “expansion”? No. It could, but it doesn’t reliably mean that. I happen to lean on the probably not because I am a pragmatist, but this thread is wildly out of control thinking an expansion is definitely coming.

• bigger stuff could mean more sPvP modes
• bigger stuff could mean Edge of the Mists
  snip…

Sure but consider another important factor, Expansion doesnt have a strict definition either. There were games that had expansions that didnt include new areas. EvE did that a few times. I think thats part of the issue here. I mean I dont think people want an expansion per-se they want the content they generally associate with an expansion. If they decide to stick with the LS release method and say for season 2 we get the first LS release dealing with an invasion of palawa joko’s army and then the next release they open all of the crystal desert as well as elona and use the LS as a sort of personal story mechanism that deals with us overthrowing palawa and reconnecting to elona and unlocking new classes / weapons once we complete the arc I dont think anyone would complain that we didnt get an expansion for sure. Expansion is just a word that people focus on because traditionally its what delivered big scale goodies like new zones etc.. Now obviously I dont know what they’re working on, no one does but they’ve claimed since day 1 the world would expand, from day one they said LS teams is just a fraction of the workforce, other people are playing on other projects even long term stuff. So yes you’re right bigger stuff doesnt necessarily mean expansion… they may never do an expansion at all they made that very clear but it doesnt matter cause they also made it clear that expansion or no, the stuff you find in an expansion will still make it in the game and thats whats important.

zamalek.2154:

Galen Grey.4709:

Those are all things that you will see in the lifespan of Guild Wars 2

Emphasis mine. 1 year later is hardly lifespan, not by a massive longshot.

That statement though didnt refer to the expansion or expansion like content. what I understood by that is something like “expansion generally has new zones, whole contents worth of zones, new races and professions and we do intend to release things like that while guild wars 2 is running”

zamalek.2154:

Galen Grey.4709:

They said they might release the new content through the living story instead of a paid expansion but they never said they’re not going to do it. Never ever!

I never said “never ever,” I said very likely it’s far too soon for this type of stuff given ANet’s very firm stance on it.

snip…

Okey then I misunderstood what you meant, because yes I Agree with you none of this will probably come by march, In march the living story ends and they already said they’re taking a short break after that. Then they’ll be releasing a feature patch and I dont expect new zones to be in a release called feature patch… perhaps new professions / weapons sure but not new zones we’ll see. I am more expecting new zones and sometime between april and summer.

I think what made me misunderstand you is you focus a bit too much on Arenanet taking a “very firm stance on LS” Because sure they believe in it and want to give it a fair chance but by no means is that the sole thing they’re focusing on. I mean we can see it right now too, they did plenty of stuff that isnt remotely connected to the living story so far. Fractals, Guild missions, PvP Maps, Festivals, Edge of the mists, World Boss revamp, Jumping puzzles, mini dungeons, PVP Arenas and tournaments etc..

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Galen Grey.4709:

1. (Snip)

Well aware of this, also well aware as detractors would say “this isn’t an excuse to half-bake it”. Like they have from time to time with some of these Living World entries.

there were issues sure but half-bake it is a bit excessive.. They did something thats unprecedented and that is quite demanding, I think its only fair to expect them taking a bit of time until they got it right.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Galen Grey.4709:

2. there is the content they’ve been releasing every two weeks.

Which was a choice which could have gone the other way to release instead more permanent material every six months. Close your eyes and imagine the Living Story being doled out and always available like War in Kryta/Hearts of the North/Winds of Change.

I don’t think as many people would have gotten so severely annoyed by it appearing and disappearing in two to four weeks.

That was the advantage of having the game instanced. You have two types of MMOs those who really change as the story flows and those who just tell you that things have changed but nothing actually does. Gw and Gw2 were of the first kind. There are different ways how you can make that change happen, By actually reflecting the change in the world or by phasing it. Imagine if the original Gw was really open world how could say war on kryta worked? They couldnt make it as impact on the world the same way they could with an instance. or by taking the Gw2 approach.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Galen Grey.4709:

Yes and No. Yes in that sure if I joined Gw2 today there might as well have been no Labyrinthine cliffs cause I never got to experience that at least yet. But on the other hand No because for players that were there the content existed and played an important role in their enjoyment not to mention even if they never decide to reuse any of it, it still helps by giving them at least some assets then can reuse be it music, textures, characters , sounds or perhaps even models though they seem to avoid that for some reason.

I did note the Molten Alliance factory and Aetherblade lair both became Fractals, as did their boss fights. So yes, the assets and information isn’t gone forever. Except the election bit, I’m pretty sure that’s something everyone missed out on.

By the way, most of this is just taking time to point out they could be doing different/better with all this Living Story. I really hope they do.

What I am afraid is what people consider better is actually worst but we’ll see. Last LS were instanced which makes it easier for them to have them repeateable by talking to some npc for example and that would work fine, that would actually be better no doubt. I just hope they dont change it in a way that actions dont actually effect anything. I like having a sort of simulated passage of time. Refuges move here and build stuff, then they move there and build stuff there, tower got destroyed but still left its impact on the world, Invaders attacked over there but we managed to beat them and now they’re truly gone etc.. Would be a pity to loose that imho

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

Not to mention the amount of content Guild Wars 2 initially launched with was greater than the amount of content in Prophecies and Factions put together. Prophecies only had a bit over 200 quests. It has 25 missions. One starter area.

With factions they added another game and another couple of hundred quests, and another 13 missions.

That’s a far cry from 300 hearts and 1500 dynamic events, even if you don’t include jumping puzzles and such.

Then there are dungeons. There weren’t really "dungeons’ per se in Guild Wars 1 until Eye of the North. I guess you could say Sorrow’s Furnace was a dungeon. There were elite areas, but nothing like the Fractals.

Shrugs.

The content that existed in Guild Wars 1, whether you like it better or not, was far less than the content here. I mean five start zones is a lot more content than two. In fact, in it’s entire live, Guild Wars 1 only had 3 starting zones. Add all the quests and missions together, and Guild Wars 2 launched with more dynamic events.

It’s a whole different ball of wax to develop for.

Anet themselves said they’d need 3 times the number of events in zones, compared to quests in the old system, which means it has to take longer for new zones to be developed.

You say that like it’s something of which we should all be in awe. The only difference between a starting zone and a mid/high level zone are A) numbers (mob health, loot tables, etc), and some tutorial elements for new players.

Please don’t take me wrong; I’m a guy who very much appreciates five starter zones. The four leveling paths, start to finish (with the exception of mid-levels zones for Maguuma) allowed me to have fresh leveling experiences with four of my five characters. If the game ever expands to new regions, I very much hope they add more starting zones (complete with new mid to high level zones chalked full of Renown Hearts, Points of Interest, Vistas, etc).

But let’s not pretend a few more starting zones are that big a deal. Or if we’re going to, let’s be fair and also contrast the number of end-game zones. And before anyone mentions the side-kicking system (another feature I love), unless the rewards (loot tables, salvage items, resource nodes, etc) reward players with T6 materials then I would argue it isn’t an end game zone.

You have me scratching my head now…first you said "The only difference between a starting zone and a mid/high level zone are A) numbers (mob health, loot tables, etc), and some tutorial elements for new players. "

and then you say “allowed me to have fresh leveling experiences with four of my five characters.”

Cause yes what is awesome about having 5 different starting zones, 3-6 mid level zones (depending on how quickly you level up) and 2-3 max level zones is they all had their’ own stories and they own event chains / meta events etc… Even the personal story had multiple branches and each branch had some piece of the big puzzle rewarding you in part with more detail for repeating it. You can level 3 – 5 characters from scratch without repeating any piece of content once.

Its a bit peculiar how someone who says he values that would state the only difference between zones is mob health and loot tables

Galen Grey.4709:

That was the advantage of having the game instanced. You have two types of MMOs those who really change as the story flows and those who just tell you that things have changed but nothing actually does. Gw and Gw2 were of the first kind. There are different ways how you can make that change happen, By actually reflecting the change in the world or by phasing it. Imagine if the original Gw was really open world how could say war on kryta worked? They couldnt make it as impact on the world the same way they could with an instance. or by taking the Gw2 approach.

Here’s the thing. It would have been entirely possible if there had been teams slowly working an evolving War in Kryta through all the years of other releases. Factions released and there would be rising tensions with the Shining Blade. Evennia is seen leaving as well as a mysterious necromancer we hadn’t met before.

Nightfall comes out, and after fighting off the incursion into the real workd in Kryta there’s talk of the White Mantle’s grip faltering more and more with these attacks. The Shining Blade are planning on fully seizing Lion’s Arch at last with the support of the Lionguard so they can present Princess Salma to the people and prepare for coronation.

Eye of the North, the earthquakes open into the Depths and the Shining Blade get to work defending the city from destroyers occasionally boiling out of the depths. The White Mantle spend their time gathering their forces, having eerily gone silent. (Little is it known they also have their hands full.) After the Ebon Vanguard is rescued, Evennia arrives pleading for help, but once seeing the threat of the destroyers offers to stay and help if Captain Langmar helps her get an audience with King Adelbern.

After the Great Destroyer is ended, Captain Langmar leaves Gwen in charge as she goes south to Ascalon. Keiran takes the Ebon Falcons south to Kryta as a “scouting party” and gets involved a little too deep. The White Mantle sees the city as weakened and ripe following the destroyer’s end and now employs mercenary “Peacekeepers” to start cowing villages into submission with steady pushes towards Lion’s Arch.

Battle lines start to get drawn and defense preparations are made. Livia comes with Gadd’s research and Zinn in tow to forge some sort of wide-area defense against the mursaat’s Spectral Agony. The Ebon Falcons lose track of Keiran in a rush to secure siege defenses and rally the Ascalonian Settlement defenders on the strength of a promise from Princess Salma to legitimize them as Krytan citizens able to claim all rights and services the crown offers . . . if they stand defending Lion’s Arch in its time of need.

All this culminates in a siege and push into the city where the leadership of the White Mantle throws themselves into the fray and does incredible damage . . . and yet fails, the mercenaries surrendering to beg for mercy as the White Mantle flees west into the jungle swearing vengeance. In the aftermath, bittersweet news as nobody can locate Keiran, Captain Langmar, or Evennia . . . even as the coronation of Queen Salma is now set to happen and order is restored to Kryta to signal an end to an era of intense chaos.

Problem is, I’ve so lost interest in the game because of the amount of temporary content that I’ve missed, and can never do again. I don’t think I care about this new patch at all.

ArenaNet do, I observe, take note of player likes and dislikes, but they tend to take so long about getting around to doing something about it people like me have completely lost interest. Well, with the exception of the Ascended Gear knee-jerk debacle, anyway.

My suggestion to ArenaNet (if you want me and people like me back):

Make this patch big, something completely special, and overhaul this annoying, grindy, OCD game. And then SELL it. And I don’t mean something like that pie-in-the-sky Manifesto that’s vague and misleading.

Explain what you’ve changed, why, and shoot straight with players about it. I know I’m sick of all the hype leading to poor-quality content. Explain why you’ve changed your ways, and why GW2 is the great game now, that it once could have been.

Your PR is terrible. Fix THAT, and regain the trust of your former customers, if you can.

Chuo.4238:

My suggestion to ArenaNet (if you want me and people like me back):

Make this patch big, something completely special, and overhaul this annoying, grindy, OCD game. And then SELL it. And I don’t mean something like that pie-in-the-sky Manifesto that’s vague and misleading.

You know it’s very likely this next patch is all done and just being bug-fixed? What you want to hold out for as being “big and completely special” is stuff one or two down the line. Stuff which there’s time to tweak and alter.

Your PR is terrible. Fix THAT, and regain the trust of your former customers, if you can.

I don’t know if there’s “fixing that” since it’s not their PR which is terrible. It’s there’s more people actively working to cast everything they do as sinister and money-grubbing while Anet just goes “. . . really?” and ignores it.

“… but we absolutely are going to do sweeping new features that you would traditionally only get in expansions – large regions, content and progression additions to your characters in the form of growth and professions and races. Those are all things that you will see in the lifespan of Guild Wars 2.”

As i haven’t played GW (1), does anyone has idea what they mean by character growth? Does it stands for increased level cap or something else?

They also mention new large regions. If we get new level cap, what are the chances they would be 80+. Personally, i would prefer them to be for all levels. Some 1-15, others 20-30, 70-80, etc. Also, i think there should be something better and more fun than rising level cap.

So, you start new profession with a new race on new map. Maybe even using new weapon.

Any thoughts on this considering previous expansions ( in GW )?

Rod.6581:

As i haven’t played GW (1), does anyone has idea what they mean by character growth? Does it stands for increased level cap or something else?

Well, here’s one possibility.

juno.1840:

@zamalek: EXACTLY — there’s little value in hiding an expansion at this point if it’s coming in 2014. Imagine the marketing boon that is an expansion announcement along with supporting media. Giant ancient dragon ftw!

They announced GW2 itself years before release (not months, not one year, not two years… many years).

And “big projects” might not be what the community thinks it is. Given the size of the LS updates, a “big project” could be a single new zone (which wouldn’t be bad at all, everyone would love it, but it’s not the equivalent of an expansion and all the hype that goes with it).

There is tremendous value in hiding an expansion at this point, depending on the reason the expansion is being made.

Generally, games time their expansions to head off competition. The less the competition knows about their plans, the harder it is to set release dates of their own. There’s this whole cat and mouse thing that goes on with companies.

Anet released the game before MoP, which is one of the reasons why so much was left undone. I’m guessing they felt they had to, because they didn’t know how good/successful mists would be and if it was ultra successful, it might impact sales for a long time after.

By launching a month before, they even got some sales from people with a month to kill.

Guarding your releases and release dates is just as much targeted at keeping the competition guessing as promoting it to your fans. In business, timing can be everything.

“… but we absolutely are going to do sweeping new features that you would traditionally only get in expansions – large regions, content and progression additions to your characters in the form of growth and professions and races. *Those are all things that you will see in the lifespan of Guild Wars 2.”*

>In the lifespan of Guild Wars 2.

tldr; soon.tm
real tldr; when it’s too late

GvG please, thanks.

Kanto.1659:

Well… Months of wait between content which is going to be eaten in a week anyway?

Contrary to most MMOs, older content will still be challenging even if you are higher level or have better gear. We get a broader choice of content, not new content overriding older one.

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

@zamalek: EXACTLY — there’s little value in hiding an expansion at this point if it’s coming in 2014. Imagine the marketing boon that is an expansion announcement along with supporting media. Giant ancient dragon ftw!

They announced GW2 itself years before release (not months, not one year, not two years… many years).

And “big projects” might not be what the community thinks it is. Given the size of the LS updates, a “big project” could be a single new zone (which wouldn’t be bad at all, everyone would love it, but it’s not the equivalent of an expansion and all the hype that goes with it).

There is tremendous value in hiding an expansion at this point, depending on the reason the expansion is being made.

Generally, games time their expansions to head off competition. The less the competition knows about their plans, the harder it is to set release dates of their own. There’s this whole cat and mouse thing that goes on with companies.

Anet released the game before MoP, which is one of the reasons why so much was left undone. I’m guessing they felt they had to, because they didn’t know how good/successful mists would be and if it was ultra successful, it might impact sales for a long time after.

By launching a month before, they even got some sales from people with a month to kill.

Guarding your releases and release dates is just as much targeted at keeping the competition guessing as promoting it to your fans. In business, timing can be everything.

Agreed.

I also would not be surprised to see any possible expansion held off until after the China launch.

So i guess GW2 will release in China this summer? and we will get a lot of the stuff the chinese are getting into their version of the game.

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that the developers are under strict orders not to reveal information before they’re ready. Yeah, I know, it sucks. A lot of fluff, a lot of hype, but no details to back it up. But that’s how the game industry works.

It could be worse, too. Riot Games had at one point promised a 1v1/2v2 league of legends map, but they just recently pulled back from their promise and are now abandoning the idea. I do not want ANet to make the same mistake. I can be patient and wait for more information when it’s ready.

As for a lot of people’s concerns about content updates slowing down, don’t worry. It’s not by much. Every month an average update (be it balance or living story) will be released. What Johanson is talking about is releasing expansion sized content soon that’s been in the works for a while.

What that entails? I have no idea. But they’ll tell us when they’re ready.

@Tobias Trueflight

The story isnt the problem, you can do any story with any system you choose. But take your awesome progression of events and think how it would play out using the various systems.

Traditional quests:
Nothing really changes visually so if at the start of your story lion’s arch is under white mantle control it will naturally have white mantle justicars, priests and knights patrolling its streets. The story might play out by doing quests for Evennia and then for Salma until the final battle where the quest in question sends you to kill the high inquisitor and his mursaat masters. You finish that quest and then talking to salma will have her thankyou for securing her throne whatever… Limitations of this system though means that traveling through LA will still have you see justicars, priests and knights patroling, Queen Salma is still called Princess Salma and she never leaves lion arch keep, or the encampment for that matter. An advantage is if you create an alt you can experience the story again but it also means there is no sense of time in the game because creating an alt essentially means going back in time.

Instancing would work well of course but it also means that you’ll experiance the story mostly in a solo context and creating an alt also messes up timelines. Another Problem in my opinion is you shift the story and I know I am in the minority here but war in kryta is the story of Salma trying to regain her thrown and ending white mantle oppression yet because of how the system works you’re the center of the story. If you decide to drop everything and go do other staff Salma will not move against the white mantle and the white mantle will not move against Salma even if years pass by.

Gw2 way you can have it play out as it should. The story will play out as it should. The story would indeed by about Salma and she should do what she needs to do and your place in the story will the actual place the story has for you, that of a person assisting the queen and helping her achieve her goals. Further more there will be real progress of time and creating an Alt will not reset time to a fix value… time really passes witht he living story . Of course the down side here is undeniably that if you werent there you cannot experience the story first hand which I hope gets resolved somehow (I would say best way is a replay option in the mists or something of the sort)

Phasing would be akin to instancing but offers more multiplayer feel even though it would be worst then living story as it would fracture the players based on the different stage of story. If there are 15 missions in the storyline then thats 15 ways you’re going to split your players which is far from ideal.

I am amused by the constant comparisons to just one game, GW1, and the attempts to justify the glacial pace of actual new expansion content by pointing out all the things GW2 has to do that GW1 didn’t.

Compare it to a real MMO. Everquest 2 launched in 2005. It had underwater content, combat. Quite a lot of it actually. It had jumping and content that required it. 24 classes. Far more races. More dungeons, more quests, more overland area. Housing. Raids. Open instances. Open world bosses. Actual in-depth crafting. More graphics options. Flexible UI. Far more guild management tools. Mounts. World events. Seasonal Events. And with all of that, SOE has managed to release full boxed expansions on an average of once a year, and has expanded the “features” of that game with every single one of them.

That is what GW2 is going to have to do to have the longevity, in this genre, as the Everquest franchise has had, and continues to have. GW2 needs to step up to the plate to play in the big leagues.

In so many ways ANET has the potential to be a force in the MMO world for many years.. IF they take the changes they have made mechanics wise and then adapt and adopt what has been very successful for the industry as a whole as well.

Living World isn’t going to cut it. Not in the long run. It’s not new, only the pace is. I’ve done temporary “World Events” in Everquest 2 since it launched.. it is their name for it. It is something to do.. between new expansion content. Temporary content is no replacement for an expansions worth of permanent content, not there, and not here.

“Edit to add this link http://www.tentonhammer.com/opinions/developers-should-steal-more”

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I am amused by the constant comparisons to just one game, GW1, and the attempts to justify the glacial pace of actual new expansion content by pointing out all the things GW2 has to do that GW1 didn’t.

Compare it to a real MMO. Everquest 2 launched in 2005. It had underwater content, combat. Quite a lot of it actually. It had jumping and content that required it. 24 classes. Far more races. More dungeons, more quests, more overland area. Housing. Raids. Open instances. Open world bosses. Actual in-depth crafting. More graphics options. Flexible UI. Far more guild management tools. Mounts. World events. Seasonal Events. And with all of that, SOE has managed to release full boxed expansions on an average of once a year, and has expanded the “features” of that game with every single one of them.

That is what GW2 is going to have to do to have the longevity, in this genre, as the Everquest franchise has had, and continues to have. GW2 needs to step up to the plate to play in the big leagues.

In so many ways ANET has the potential to be a force in the MMO world for many years.. IF they take the changes they have made mechanics wise and then adapt and adopt what has been very successful for the industry as a whole as well.

Living World isn’t going to cut it. Not in the long run. It’s not new, only the pace is. I’ve done temporary “World Events” in Everquest 2 since it launched.. it is their name for it. It is something to do.. between new expansion content. Temporary content is no replacement for an expansions worth of permanent content, not there, and not here.

+1. At least, we can see that the devs realised the bi-weekly, poor quality-wise updates are not the way to go. So, I do still have some hope for this game. Otherwise, plenty of other games coming out in 2014-15 ( among them, EQ:N ).

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I am amused by the constant comparisons to just one game, GW1, and the attempts to justify the glacial pace of actual new expansion content by pointing out all the things GW2 has to do that GW1 didn’t.

Compare it to a real MMO. Everquest 2 launched in 2005. It had underwater content, combat. Quite a lot of it actually. It had jumping and content that required it. 24 classes. Far more races. More dungeons, more quests, more overland area. Housing. Raids. Open instances. Open world bosses. Actual in-depth crafting. More graphics options. Flexible UI. Far more guild management tools. Mounts. World events. Seasonal Events. And with all of that, SOE has managed to release full boxed expansions on an average of once a year, and has expanded the “features” of that game with every single one of them.

That is what GW2 is going to have to do to have the longevity, in this genre, as the Everquest franchise has had, and continues to have. GW2 needs to step up to the plate to play in the big leagues.

In so many ways ANET has the potential to be a force in the MMO world for many years.. IF they take the changes they have made mechanics wise and then adapt and adopt what has been very successful for the industry as a whole as well.

Living World isn’t going to cut it. Not in the long run. It’s not new, only the pace is. I’ve done temporary “World Events” in Everquest 2 since it launched.. it is their name for it. It is something to do.. between new expansion content. Temporary content is no replacement for an expansions worth of permanent content, not there, and not here.

“Edit to add this link http://www.tentonhammer.com/opinions/developers-should-steal-more”

This is an extremely poor example. I was an avid Everquest 2 player for a very long time, and their expansions were all the same. “Here’s a new area. Here’s some new railroad questing and some new levels. And here’s 10 new abilities to add to the 500 you already have. Some new raids.” I cleared each expansion in a month. Which left me 11 months of not seeing anything new.

I just re-read the article, and I can find nowhere where it is stated that they are abandoning the two-week cadence. This was the only thing I found that addressed the cadence:

‘The next step, "and we’re heading down that path regardless", is to keep a big story but colour it with smaller stories that begin and end every month, the hope being to keep less invested players interested. “That would be our next step before we say, ‘Hey, we really need to change things,’” said Johanson.’

Now, if stories begin and end every month, it seems as though there would be more than one release each month, else the wording would have been different. Something like ‘each LS patch tells a complete story’.

Also, there is the statement ’ “That would be our next step before we say, ‘Hey, we really need to change things,’” said Johanson.‘, that sounds, to me, like they aren’t planning to change the cadence, yet. Which they have said repeatedly, before.

Stark.1350:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I am amused by the constant comparisons to just one game, GW1, and the attempts to justify the glacial pace of actual new expansion content by pointing out all the things GW2 has to do that GW1 didn’t.

Compare it to a real MMO. Everquest 2 launched in 2005. It had underwater content, combat. Quite a lot of it actually. It had jumping and content that required it. 24 classes. Far more races. More dungeons, more quests, more overland area. Housing. Raids. Open instances. Open world bosses. Actual in-depth crafting. More graphics options. Flexible UI. Far more guild management tools. Mounts. World events. Seasonal Events. And with all of that, SOE has managed to release full boxed expansions on an average of once a year, and has expanded the “features” of that game with every single one of them.

That is what GW2 is going to have to do to have the longevity, in this genre, as the Everquest franchise has had, and continues to have. GW2 needs to step up to the plate to play in the big leagues.

In so many ways ANET has the potential to be a force in the MMO world for many years.. IF they take the changes they have made mechanics wise and then adapt and adopt what has been very successful for the industry as a whole as well.

Living World isn’t going to cut it. Not in the long run. It’s not new, only the pace is. I’ve done temporary “World Events” in Everquest 2 since it launched.. it is their name for it. It is something to do.. between new expansion content. Temporary content is no replacement for an expansions worth of permanent content, not there, and not here.

“Edit to add this link http://www.tentonhammer.com/opinions/developers-should-steal-more”

This is an extremely poor example. I was an avid Everquest 2 player for a very long time, and their expansions were all the same. “Here’s a new area. Here’s some new railroad questing and some new levels. And here’s 10 new abilities to add to the 500 you already have. Some new raids.” I cleared each expansion in a month. Which left me 11 months of not seeing anything new.

Shrug. And there are those here who see the LS as a few new Achievement checkboxes, a few new skins, a couple of temporary instances they clear in a day, with 13 whole days of not seeing anything new.

Difference being.. the permanent content added here is miniscule and little remains for Alts, people who play at a slower pace, and people new to the game. Furthermore, little is gained, so far, featurewise…. unless you love the Gem Store. Unfortunately, the Gem Store isn’t selling new classes, new races, new starting areas, new trades, UI flexibility, Guild Management tools, or a host of other things.

Interesting to me that you found expansions as vastly different as EoF as compared to DoF to be “all the same”. Even the game mechanics changed radically for some expansions. But w/e. If you ground out EQ2 expansions, fully, in 30 days then I assume you will need LS updates every 3 days or so.

Regarding wvw:

“Even if you’re losing, you have moments and rewards and things you’re playing for that they’re compelling right down to the last minute.”

AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Galen Grey.4709:

@Tobias Trueflight

The story isnt the problem, you can do any story with any system you choose. But take your awesome progression of events and think how it would play out using the various systems.

I have thought about it, I’m a tabletop gamer and currently a GM coming off a hiatus. I work with a lot of different methods of moving plot pieces around and pacing it.

Traditional quests:

These are incredibly easy to implement, and don’t need to actually impact anything until a major revision of an area. Usually around an expansion’s release date when you would plan the Battle of Lion’s Arch as a server-wide GM Event where a few players would take away some sweet unique loot off the leaders before there was a talk about the coronation event next weekend.

Instancing

Note, my experience with Instancing is almost entirely defined in how GW1 would handle its zones outside of the city. I did not play World of Warcraft where it was possible.

But the notes of the “shortcoming” of Salma never proceeding and the story never going anywhere? Lots of people don’t mind that, and in fact would cherish being able to take it at their own pacing. This has been said quite often.

Gw2 way you can have it play out as it should.

I would hope so since that’s how I modeled my whole little write up, how it would work within the systems we have right now.

Phasing would be akin to instancing but offers more multiplayer feel even though it would be worst then living story as it would fracture the players based on the different stage of story. If there are 15 missions in the storyline then thats 15 ways you’re going to split your players which is far from ideal.

Well until you have a major update/expansion then you could arbitrarily change things like you could in the above “Traditional Quest” method.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Galen Grey.4709:

@Tobias Trueflight

The story isnt the problem, you can do any story with any system you choose. But take your awesome progression of events and think how it would play out using the various systems.

I have thought about it, I’m a tabletop gamer and currently a GM coming off a hiatus. I work with a lot of different methods of moving plot pieces around and pacing it.

Traditional quests:

These are incredibly easy to implement, and don’t need to actually impact anything until a major revision of an area. Usually around an expansion’s release date when you would plan the Battle of Lion’s Arch as a server-wide GM Event where a few players would take away some sweet unique loot off the leaders before there was a talk about the coronation event next weekend.

Instancing

Note, my experience with Instancing is almost entirely defined in how GW1 would handle its zones outside of the city. I did not play World of Warcraft where it was possible.

But the notes of the “shortcoming” of Salma never proceeding and the story never going anywhere? Lots of people don’t mind that, and in fact would cherish being able to take it at their own pacing. This has been said quite often.

Gw2 way you can have it play out as it should.

I would hope so since that’s how I modeled my whole little write up, how it would work within the systems we have right now.

Phasing would be akin to instancing but offers more multiplayer feel even though it would be worst then living story as it would fracture the players based on the different stage of story. If there are 15 missions in the storyline then thats 15 ways you’re going to split your players which is far from ideal.

Well until you have a major update/expansion then you could arbitrarily change things like you could in the above “Traditional Quest” method.

I am a table top gamer too… or well used to be havent played for a while now.

Anyhow back on subject, well it varies from player to player. Some players dont even care about the story, probably the majority of them! there is a reason why there is the sorta stereotypical thinking in traditional quest based games that says people dont read quest text.

Likewise there are probably a range of philosophies in the we care about the story camp as well. For some good well done quests is all the immersion they need for others the more attention to detail the better. Putting the world on pause while you’re ready to continue works and I am sure a lot of players prefer it but in terms of immersion I feel its sub par to the current implementation. With the current system you have actual passage of time with the other not so much, its like you’re living out of the space time continuum and sometimes you’re playing in the future sometimes you’re playing in the past and the two intermingle all the time.