Guild Wars 2

BilboBaggins.5620:

If I had to pick an example of good television storytelling I’d have to go with a show that was cancelled before the end of it’s first season; Firefly!

The reason Firefly worked was how short it was, I think. If we had drawn more time out of it, we might have seen more mediocre and predictability. It probably would have been better structured as a miniseries of 10 episodes with the followup movie.

I’ll go one better, though, and point out another one which was pretty good and had wonderful material? Stargate SG-1. (Your mileage may vary on the later seasons, but I found them tolerably decent to watch.)

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

Have you ever actually watched the Hunchback of Notre Dame?

It is one of Disney’s darker stories along with the Black Cauldron.

“For starters, the film is filled with religious imagery. Ideas of kitten ation and salvation run throughout the film, with the majority of the story taking place inside a church. Normally, in a kids movie, religion is a topic not discussed. However, this film faces it head on. The music is centered on God, with songs God Help the Outcasts and Hellfire, and throughout all are ideas of being saved, or sent through help. Frollo is always concerned for his soul, and well as condemning everyone else’s to hell, on his mission from god. Now, in a film made for adults, this wouldn’t be out of place, but the fact that its in a Disney movie, gives it an added level of maturity. They took a risk putting these types of themes into one of their films, but it paid off making it an enjoyable feature for kids and adults.

Along with this, the film is filled with instances of unusual darkness. For example, when Phoebus first shows up at the Palace of Justice, we see Frollo over watching the whipping of the last captain. We hear the whip crack, and the screams of the victim, as Frollo watches, smiling. The film is filled with moments like these, moments of darkness, and sadness. Moments when Quasimodo, the character we’ve learnt to love is put on a pedestal in the middle of the town square and publicly tortured as Frollo watches, allowing this to happen. This makes the film all the more emotional, and real, for mature audiences and allows it to stand the test of time as a well rounded, real, story."

If you have couple millions to spare and some hard negotiators on team, you could try convincing Andrzej Sapkowski to help you out with story. Small chance he would’ve agreed, but if you did suceed…

Oh boy, that game would have better story than most of recent books, games and movies combined.

What she did before is of little concern to me (though the whole formerly at Disney thing leaves me cautious). What matters is what effect she has on the story now.

People are aware that recent Marvel movies were made by Disney, right?

lordkrall.7241:

People are aware that recent Marvel movies were made by Disney, right?

People know that Disney owns Marvel, yes.

Doesn’t really seem like it based on them shouting about how everything made by Disney is childish and such

Tachenon.5270:

lordkrall.7241:

People are aware that recent Marvel movies were made by Disney, right?

People know that Disney owns Marvel, yes.

LOL! Ok now that picture is funny. Right now I’m excited about the story and I’m curious to see where they go with the dragon egg. I don’t think GW2 can get very “childish” when they have some “controversial” characters. So they have already shown they will touch on some taboo topics.

I thought Anet learned from their past mistake where they tried to tell a story without backstory or mythos (Scarlet, which did finally get backstory revealed after the fact), but, now I’m not so sure…

Interesting interview, however.

“If you look at film, when film got started, people were not even allowed to talk in film. They didn’t have the technology,” Hoyer said. "As soon as film got the ability to have their characters talk, they very quickly stopped using text, because that was a storytelling medium from books.’

Unfortunately, it wasn’t very quickly. It was some time before sound was completely introduced, and in some instances there was hybridization eg The Jazz Singer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jazz_Singer#Introducing_sound

’They’ll still use it to this day in just the right way, like the opening to Star Wars and the like. But they use it very sparingly, and they use what they do best, this very visual medium that has sound in synch with it."

Think you will find, George Lucas deliberately did the scroll at the begging of Star Wars as a homage to Buck Rogers, as Stephen Speilberg and himself where avid fans of the Saturday morning films in cinemas, and wanted to bring back the same feeling.

I am sure she is very capable, and has an impressive résumé but for myself, it looked like a politicians answer, talk, but don’t actually answer any questions. This may be due to just getting into post and settling in, who knows, time will tell.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Rozbuska.5263:

Is she responsible for creating all that living story story stuff? Its could be explanation why we must again and again fight all those plants and dealing with sylvari and all this girl style stuff:-)

“girl style stuff” is not something that exists. But thanks for being completely un-constructive and sexist.

You’re saying frilly and girly things do not exist?

Is she saying that lore doesn’t matter?

narwhalsbend.7059:

Is she saying that lore doesn’t matter?

I think she’s saying lore shouldn’t need to be dumped into every two sentences of npc dialogue for the story to make sense. Lore is the world and its history and people in the game needs to be able to live naturally within this lore without having to constantly remind us (or themselves) of it.

I think she’s saying that lore shouldn’t be told to players…they should get it organically through play.

Sunshine.4680:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Rozbuska.5263:

Is she responsible for creating all that living story story stuff? Its could be explanation why we must again and again fight all those plants and dealing with sylvari and all this girl style stuff:-)

“girl style stuff” is not something that exists. But thanks for being completely un-constructive and sexist.

You’re saying frilly and girly things do not exist?

I think the point was that “frilly” (lending your example) is not necessarily girly/girls only, and “girly” shouldn’t be used as a way of saying “bad”.

Because since when does the layout of your body, and the presence or absence of certain bodyparts, have anything to do with the quality and/or intrinsic value of a game?

She could have worded it better… is she opposed to giant walls of text instead of lore-dumps? because ‘lore-dumps’ are very necessary for any invented world to function. The opening scene of pretty much any Disney movie ever is essentially a lore-dump, just with song and moving pictures instead of giant walls of text.

((….though, even walls of text are necessary. I doubt a library would make much sense in a game world unless you could read books that were there.))

And while history/mythos/backstory isn’t the main story of any invented world, its very necessary for that world to function and for the main story to be enjoyable. Middle Earth wouldn’t be as interesting if it didn’t have 6000+ years of its fictional history backing up the main story. What would Sauron be without that history….just a big shapeless eye in the sky with no reason or purpose other than “Conquer middle earth because I said so”????…BORING!!!!

Same thing, I bet that everything to do with Scarlet last year would have been more interesting to more people if there was more context for what she was doing, instead of trying to force a mysterious character down our throats that turned out to not be mysterious, just unnecessary until it was necessary only to the main story to tell us why she was necessary; and this sentence makes just as much sense as Scarlet did until Anet buckled and released more of her backstory, which would have made more sense if it existed in the game from the start instead of being retconned in after the fact.

Also, I disagree with is this:::

But one thing we’ve always wanted to make really clear is backstory and mythos isn’t story. What you’re actually doing when you’re in the game is very much about the time you’re in the game. It is such a here-and-now, in-the-present media. You know that if you don’t shoot that guy fast enough, he’s going to shoot you and you’re going to die. In the same way, your story should be about the present

Not all videogames exist in the here-and-now all the time. Maybe Call of Duty which is nothing more than 10 hours of moving from one set piece to the next, but in an MMO where you’re going to be spending a lot of time not playing the main story, you have time to stop, take a breath, and learn about the world you’re in. Whether that’s through a lore-dumping wall of text, or exploring old ruins doesn’t really matter to me, so long as it has context and reason for existing.

Gaile Gray.6029:

…
I have complete confidence that the story of Guild Wars 2 will continue to be presented in a manner that focuses upon mature players.

I’m sorry but…continue? Focuses?

Yeah…sure, it’s mature all right….

Gaile Gray.6029:

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

In my opinion, Disney stories, while they are addressed or presented in a manner that can be approached by the mind of a child, actually present core concepts that are not childish at all, as they deal with eternal themes that cross ages, cultures, and languages. I find Leah’s background to be impressive on many levels, and I have complete confidence that the story of Guild Wars 2 will continue to be presented in a manner that focuses upon mature players. (I don’t speak for Leah, I’m just stating my opinion as a team member and a player. )

That is definitely intriguing, and the turnaround Disney has done in the last several years has been unexpected. Frozen? True love, yes, but not the kind of prince-kisses-the-princess sort of way. Maleficent? Very close thematically towards the end.

I have to wonder if Pixar is having any effect on this. They have a wonderful track record of subverting tropes, and I’m hoping that sort of writing carries over into Disney’s primary works.

That said, I hope the writing behind Marjory and Kasmeer becomes more realistic and not the standard token lesbian trope it’s been. I want to feel empathy for these characters, and their writing has put me in a place where every cinematic makes me think “is it over yet?”. The opening from the previous LS installment regarding Belinda was quite good. Why can’t we have that all the time?

Dafomen.7892:

I’m sorry but…continue? Focuses?

Yeah…sure, it’s mature all right….

I would say the story and setting of Guild Wars 2 is indeed rather mature.

Chrispy.5641:

She could have worded it better… is she opposed to giant walls of text instead of lore-dumps? because ‘lore-dumps’ are very necessary for any invented world to function. The opening scene of pretty much any Disney movie ever is essentially a lore-dump, just with song and moving pictures instead of giant walls of text.

It’s possible to have an invented world function without lore-dumps. Minecraft does

Though without being snarky, there are other games I’ve played where lore-dumps or “exposition bombs” aren’t necessary and don’t matter. What do I mean? Well think back for a moment and answer this:

How much did you really need to know about the Mushroom Kingdom? Or Hyrule? Zebes?

Good games and worlds can exist without pulling doorstopper books of lore out to validate themselves. Especially ones which can rely well on “Show Don’t Tell”, which can be few and far between . . . since that can be another tricky thing to pull off inside the frame of a video game properly.

I’ve never played the games, but I understand Silent Hill used to be good at this sort of thing.

Hey, I’ve got nothing against Disney/Marvel, but now that I think about it, aside from from Kasjory, our main characters in this arc are a genius in a robot suit, an archer, a big viking-style guy with a blunt weapon, and a sneaky-type with questionable loyalties. Now we’re all working with a high-tech global defense force (complete with floating battleships), and its hands-on leader. All we’re missing before we can really start to avenge Mordremoth’s victims is for Canach to get exposed to draconic energy and transform into some sort of incredibly powerful Husk.

Disney owns so much more than a lot of you probably realise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Disney

Wow. I didn’t know they made/owned so many MMOs.

perilisk.1874:

Hey, I’ve got nothing against Disney/Marvel, but now that I think about it, aside from from Kasjory, our main characters in this arc are a genius in a robot suit, an archer, a big viking-style guy with a blunt weapon, and a sneaky-type with questionable loyalties. Now we’re all working with a high-tech global defense force (complete with floating battleships), and its hands-on leader. All we’re missing before we can really start to avenge Mordremoth’s victims is for Canach to get exposed to draconic energy and transform into some sort of incredibly powerful Husk.

LOL! The Incredible Husk!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrispy.5641:

She could have worded it better… is she opposed to giant walls of text instead of lore-dumps? because ‘lore-dumps’ are very necessary for any invented world to function. The opening scene of pretty much any Disney movie ever is essentially a lore-dump, just with song and moving pictures instead of giant walls of text.

It’s possible to have an invented world function without lore-dumps. Minecraft does

Though without being snarky, there are other games I’ve played where lore-dumps or “exposition bombs” aren’t necessary and don’t matter. What do I mean? Well think back for a moment and answer this:

How much did you really need to know about the Mushroom Kingdom? Or Hyrule? Zebes?

Good games and worlds can exist without pulling doorstopper books of lore out to validate themselves. Especially ones which can rely well on “Show Don’t Tell”, which can be few and far between . . . since that can be another tricky thing to pull off inside the frame of a video game properly.

I’ve never played the games, but I understand Silent Hill used to be good at this sort of thing.

…on older videogames, I had no interest in Super Metroid at first. Then I watched my brother play a new game. I watched the opening cutscene and was like “Wow, there’s actually a reason to be shooting everything in sight!” Instead of controlling Samus, having her venture down into the hellhole that is planet Zebes just to shoot and kill the bosses, there was a certain baby metroid we were trying to get back. Not only were we going to get the metroid back, but it was even revealed why we need to get it back before the game was even 5 minutes in. There was context and reason, and we knew about it before we ever controlled the main character, and the past history that Samus had (that was revealed in the opening scene) made the game experience all the richer. You can’t deny that (though you just tried to.)

Your context for playing Terraria is to build, and that game (and minecraft) both dump quite a bit of information if your playing the game for the first time, the rest is made by you (still has a big info dump that is required for new players to enjoy. So does Edge of Space.)

also, Silent Hill has lore-dumps. Pretty much everything does. Even Phineas and Ferb has entire scenes dedicated to telling story and backstory instead of showing cartoony cartoon stuff for all 22 minutes its on air.

I mean, unless you like mindlessly shooting and killing everything in sight with no context and no reason, some people just want entertainment for entertainment and don’t want to think while killing everything in sight. That’s not me, and I’m pretty sure there are plenty of people that think the same way.

Like I said, Lore-dumps are necessary. Walls of Text are not.

Chrispy.5641:

…on older videogames, I had no interest in Super Metroid at first. Then I watched my brother play a new game. I watched the opening cutscene and was like “Wow, there’s actually a reason to be shooting everything in sight!”

Honestly, it was something I accepted in that era of games – there was almost never a reason beyond “an adventurer is you” to be doing things. Even text-heavy games like Shadowgate (by the way, the revival handles that pretty nicely too).

You can’t deny that (though you just tried to.)

I was meaning more the NES/Famicom Metroid. Where the story was only in the eyecatch on the title screen after leaving it idle, or in the end screen. Super Metroid had a story built in, sure, but it was the third in the series and reinventing the game over again into something more expansive.

It is also the only Metroid game I can stand to play for longer than an hour.

Your context for playing Terraria is to build, and that game (and minecraft) both dump quite a bit of information if your playing the game for the first time, the rest is made by you (still has a big info dump that is required for new players to enjoy. So does Edge of Space.)

Terraria is weird – there’s not much lore to it on the surface, there’s precious little information which is out there in the game, and you almost have to discover stuff yourself or go find the wiki.

. . . I really don’t know how I feel about the idea of single-player games requiring a wiki to play effectively. I mean, on one hand I really dig the heck out of the MegaTen series and they almost require a guide open next to you to play . . . but you can make your own references if you like. And I really enjoyed Ultima 4 and Dragon Quest 2, also known as “where do I go next?”.

also, Silent Hill has lore-dumps. Pretty much everything does. Even Phineas and Ferb has entire scenes dedicated to telling story and backstory instead of showing cartoony cartoon stuff for all 22 minutes its on air.

I wouldn’t know, I gave the cold shoulder to animation when someone tried to get me to watch all of Friendship is Magic on the grounds it was well-written. It was, but it wasn’t anything which interested me, and the things which did are . . . well, they’d be “Stand Alone Complex” and “Cowboy Bebop”.

I mean, unless you like mindlessly shooting and killing everything in sight with no context and no reason, some people just want entertainment for entertainment and don’t want to think while killing everything in sight. That’s not me, and I’m pretty sure there are plenty of people that think the same way.

Like I said, Lore-dumps are necessary. Walls of Text are not.

I disagree. Lore is necessary. Dumping it into places to be found in huge chunks is not, strictly speaking, necessary. And you can get a long way to making your world feel alive by spreading the density of lore out of cutscenes and into ambient NPCs. (A reason I really liked Final Fantasy 12’s Ivalice.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

Sleeping Beauty says hello for adult storytelling. Likewise, “Aladdin”, despite having ol Robin Williams . . . or how about other things, like Pete’s Dragon? (Hey, child slavery! >thumbsup<) Or Black Hole?

I know they’re synonymous with “lighter and softer” but seriously . . . Disney had enough to hit people hard. Want proof? I’m about to say something, so trigger warning for an entire generation:

Bambi’s Mother.

In my opinion, Black Hole is one of the few awesome stories that came out of Disney. First because it is original and not a rip-off of some existing story and second because the characters were quite well done, despite their often poor dialogues. And the whole atmosphere of the movie is great. No sci-fi movie comes close to the awesomeness of the bridge design of the Cygnus, in my opinion.

If only Guild Wars 2 had a villain like Reinhardt with a looming evil monsterous Maximilian sidekick instead of Scarlet with wtfmarionette, how bloody awesome would that be?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I was meaning more the NES/Famicom Metroid. Where the story was only in the eyecatch on the title screen after leaving it idle, or in the end screen. Super Metroid had a story built in, sure, but it was the third in the series and reinventing the game over again into something more expansive.

It is also the only Metroid game I can stand to play for longer than an hour.

Oh, original Metroid. You should probably read the Instruction booklet if you still have it. The thing about old games, they had a choice between graphics, sound, and in-game text/tutorial/story. Metroid had decent graphics and sound design for the time, but memory is expensive, so, instead of compromising the graphics and sound, the story was printed in the instruction manual. It was done out of necessity, not because the game was better off without it.

Chrispy.5641:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I was meaning more the NES/Famicom Metroid. Where the story was only in the eyecatch on the title screen after leaving it idle, or in the end screen. Super Metroid had a story built in, sure, but it was the third in the series and reinventing the game over again into something more expansive.

It is also the only Metroid game I can stand to play for longer than an hour.

Oh, original Metroid. You should probably read the Instruction booklet if you still have it. The thing about old games, they had a choice between graphics, sound, and in-game text/tutorial/story. Metroid had decent graphics and sound design for the time, but memory is expensive, so, instead of compromising the graphics and sound, the story was printed in the instruction manual. It was done out of necessity, not because the game was better off without it.

Yeah, you know what else is a thing about old games? The manuals quite often being one of the first things lost and thus second-hand games (most of mine were) are missing it. I think for the NES I got roughly 20% of the games new and only when I got them for Christmas or a birthday. So, I also got to miss the infamous manual story for Metal Gear (NES) (I later got to read it off scanned copies.)

The weird thing is Metroid would have had space for a battery save game, but instead had passwords. So it could have actually been built a little better but . . . at least it hasn’t been given a complete remake treatment yet.

And much like a lot of people . . . I’m sorry, I have to judge what you put in the game/book/movie to be fair rather than all the stuff which never made it into the product because the writers either ran out of time, ran out of money, or ran out of space. (It may cause me to give credit for having good ideas but . . . if you can’t execute them for whatever reason, you still get a lesser grade and a “see me after class”.)

That’s why I mostly poke at older games for having a lack of story going through them – the story was either in the manuals or just badly conveyed on the screen. And I’d cut them some slack but NetHack manages better in most cases.

Shakkara.2641:

In my opinion, Black Hole is one of the few awesome stories that came out of Disney.

Unfortunately, it flopped for many people and was disappointing on returns. Not hard to agree with it being “not-good” as a movie since it had a lot of padding in places and . . . “Dat Ending”.

Awesome story? Possibly. It was atmosphere and the escalating pacing which made it work better.

If only Guild Wars 2 had a villain like Reinhardt with a looming evil monsterous Maximilian sidekick instead of Scarlet with wtfmarionette, how bloody awesome would that be?

. . . ehh, not sure. That dynamic is powerful but I don’t know if it would fit all that well just lifted and placed in translation. First you’d need a villain who can muster enough charisma and “unsettling aura” to make you on edge even as you admit you don’t have a reason to distrust them yet. Second, you’d need their devoted protector to basically be a non-entity as a personality and just the enforcement stick used to beat people who get out of line . . . something which does not work well considering there’s no need for that.

Lastly . . . we can do better with what we have already.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrispy.5641:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I was meaning more the NES/Famicom Metroid. Where the story was only in the eyecatch on the title screen after leaving it idle, or in the end screen. Super Metroid had a story built in, sure, but it was the third in the series and reinventing the game over again into something more expansive.

It is also the only Metroid game I can stand to play for longer than an hour.

Oh, original Metroid. You should probably read the Instruction booklet if you still have it. The thing about old games, they had a choice between graphics, sound, and in-game text/tutorial/story. Metroid had decent graphics and sound design for the time, but memory is expensive, so, instead of compromising the graphics and sound, the story was printed in the instruction manual. It was done out of necessity, not because the game was better off without it.

Yeah, you know what else is a thing about old games? The manuals quite often being one of the first things lost and thus second-hand games (most of mine were) are missing it. I think for the NES I got roughly 20% of the games new and only when I got them for Christmas or a birthday. So, I also got to miss the infamous manual story for Metal Gear (NES) :) (I later got to read it off scanned copies.)

The weird thing is Metroid would have had space for a battery save game, but instead had passwords. So it could have actually been built a little better but . . . at least it hasn’t been given a complete remake treatment yet.

And much like a lot of people . . . I’m sorry, I have to judge what you put in the game/book/movie to be fair rather than all the stuff which never made it into the product because the writers either ran out of time, ran out of money, or ran out of space. (It may cause me to give credit for having good ideas but . . . if you can’t execute them for whatever reason, you still get a lesser grade and a “see me after class”.)

That’s why I mostly poke at older games for having a lack of story going through them – the story was either in the manuals or just badly conveyed on the screen. And I’d cut them some slack but NetHack manages better in most cases.

NetHack manages better….., except for the horrendous graphics and sound, which had to be sacrificed out of necessity for all that text. I’m also pretty sure I just went over that in my last post. So based on that, NetHack is twice as bad and you need a better example (…I suggest Ninja Gaiden, which had good graphics, sound design, cutscenes, and even a coherent story for the time)

Aside from all of that, a game is just a set of rules, and your following those rules whenever you play a video game. You can do that without any story or context, but, its pretty freaking boring unless A) its a competitive game (GW2’s PvP and WvW), or B) you’re making up a story as you go along, which everyone does at some point anyways, in game story or not. I’d still rather the developers tell me why I need to go kill the dragon instead of being told to do it just because, and I’m left making up a reason myself.

Chrispy.5641:

NetHack manages better….., except for the horrendous graphics and sound, which had to be sacrificed out of necessity for all that text. I’m also pretty sure I just went over that in my last post. So based on that, NetHack is twice as bad and you need a better example (…I suggest Ninja Gaiden, which had good graphics, sound design, cutscenes, and even a coherent story for the time)

Here’s the thing – it didn’t have to be sacrificed out, as of Windows 3.0. Yeah, that long ago. Furthermore, there was a game for old personal computers which likewise had better graphics than NetHack and managed to keep about the same amount of story, nearly completely running off a 5.25" floppy. I like to think the manual’s listing of what the items actually are aside from short codes is a very basic copy protection.

Also “horrendous graphics” is subjective – I mean, if people can play Dwarf Fortress and call it the best game of the year every year (yes, seriously) then I don’t see how we can knock NetHack for the same.

Of the era of games which produced NetHack, there was still better. King’s Quest 1, 2, and 3 were apparently pre-dating NetHack, had a room for a good story, and the first one avoided intense amounts of lore by using myth/fable/fairy tales to shortcut how we understand the events. Sloppy, but it works. Oh, dare I mention the first game ran off . . . also . . . one 5.25" floppy disk?

Aside from all of that, a game is just a set of rules, and your following those rules whenever you play a video game. You can do that without any story or context, but, its pretty freaking boring unless A) its a competitive game (GW2’s PvP and WvW), or you’re making up a story as you go along, which everyone does at some point anyways, in game story or not. I’d still rather the developers tell me why I need to go kill the dragon instead of being told to do it just because, and I’m left making up a reason myself.

I’d rather make up reasons myself in some cases. If I have to make the character and it’s not handed to me as a finished character? I’d like to have the say on the “why” for things. Simultaneously one thing which makes me happy to play early Bioware games and made me sad . . .

Of course, I’m an entirely different generation of gamer who was gaming before the NES got released in the NA market, and had tabletop gaming experience on top of computer gaming. Heck, my first game of the type we could consider RPGs was Tunnels of Doom . . . my standards of what a game should be shifts a lot and generally resides in three criteria which rarely shift:

1 – Is it a blast to play? If I’m not having fun, I’m not playing your game no matter how awesome the story is. (See: Final Fantasy
2 – Is the story consistent within itself? If not, go to #1. (See: Kingdom Hearts series)
3a – Do I want to take the main/viewpoint character out back and shoot them in the head? (See: Final Fantasy
3b – If 3a not applicable, is the difficult of a level where I don’t devolve into Dennis Leary levels of F-Bombs every few minutes? (See: Original X-Com and those kittykitty Chryssalids)

Yeah. I really prefer my games to be fun above all else, and once they stop being fun . . . I start finding other things to do. If I’m having enough fun to worry about the story, I’m going to care about the game enough to recommend it to people to play as a game but go “but that story, wow”.

NetHack(original) and Dwarf Fortress have entirely text based graphics. Dwarf Fortress has almost entirely text based graphics because giving the game more graphical representations at all beyond text, would require way too much work for the small number of developers to do. Graphics were sacrificed and the gameplay was all the better for it (and its actually a pretty darn good game but graphics are still beyond an eyesore). (And….I said this three times now about graphics or story or sound being sacrificed for the other when resources are expensive. are you paying attention?)

On everything else…..eh…..what?

Chrispy.5641:

(And….I said this three times now about graphics or story or sound being sacrificed for the other when resources are expensive. are you paying attention?)

Not really, I’m rambling a bit stream-of-consciousness. The thing is, the version of NetHack I play has a GUI attached to it . . . it’s on my iPad, because it’s practically the only way I can realistically get play in.

It barely affects anything, really, since the play behind it is still . . . balls-hard and unforgiving.

But food for thought – the most fun I had playing any game . . . ever . . . used absolutely no physical representation of what was going on and only the loosest set of rules to arbitrate whether or not you passed an obstacle. There was only six people at the table and one more person with the information running it.

On everything else…..eh…..what?

Stating in general why I see story as something not the most important thing to a game. Mechanics and play which are entertaining are more important. If we’re down to complaining about the story, and I’m talking about it instead of waving it off? It means it’s fun enough I could cheerfully ignore the problems with the story so long as it doesn’t invoke midichlorians or wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Shakkara.2641:

In my opinion, Black Hole is one of the few awesome stories that came out of Disney.

Unfortunately, it flopped for many people and was disappointing on returns. Not hard to agree with it being “not-good” as a movie since it had a lot of padding in places and . . . “Dat Ending”.

Awesome story? Possibly. It was atmosphere and the escalating pacing which made it work better.

Errr, I personally think that the ending was one of the best things of the movie.

Definitely an order of magnitude more powerful and original than dat ending of Interstellar. What a terribly disappointing movie that was for me. I couldn’t identify with any of the characters, it was full of plotholes, no atmosphere, only had the special effects of the space scenes keeping it mildly interesting, but if you want SFX space scenes there’s already Gravity that does that a lot better.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

If only Guild Wars 2 had a villain like Reinhardt with a looming evil monsterous Maximilian sidekick instead of Scarlet with wtfmarionette, how bloody awesome would that be?

. . . ehh, not sure. That dynamic is powerful but I don’t know if it would fit all that well just lifted and placed in translation. First you’d need a villain who can muster enough charisma and “unsettling aura” to make you on edge even as you admit you don’t have a reason to distrust them yet. Second, you’d need their devoted protector to basically be a non-entity as a personality and just the enforcement stick used to beat people who get out of line . . . something which does not work well considering there’s no need for that.

Lastly . . . we can do better with what we have already.

What exactly does GW2 have going for it in terms of story though? I think all its terrible and I want to skip it as much as possible. It lacks interesting characters and is just generally dumb and childish. It’s like watching Shrek or something. Or any Disney cartoon shudders.

Guild Wars 1 did a much better job in that regard, in particular with Guild Wars Factions. I really enjoyed the Shiro story arc, how Shiro starts out loyal but gets increasingly tormented and corrupted over time, and the whole aftermath of the curse slowly manifesting and all that.

Guild Wars 2 totally messed up the Guild Wars universe for me, although it went downhill with Eye of the North already, IMO. Factions and Nightfall were much stronger storywise.

Everything in Guild Wars 2 just makes me want to kill all my allies for being annoying kittens and take the throne for myself. I’d pay good money to see that stupid Kasmeer burned at the stake, Trahearne flung off an airship and have the rest of their heads served on a silver plate. Marjory, Faren, Thackaray, Eir, Caithe, Rox, kill them all. I don’t want to be around such people and I sure as hell don’t want them on my team.

I’d take people like Razah, Magrid the Sly, Master of Whispers, General Morghan, Livia, etc. Hell, I’d even take Norgu over any of the current cast. At least he keeps his annoying mouth shut.