Guild Wars 2

Rangelost.4857:

Aside from megaservers, I’ve never seen a feature this buggy in my life.

Clearly you have never used Windows ME…. :P

To the OP.

Things that are open from level 1.

Dodging
WvW
PvP
Mail
Guilds
Vistas
Trading Post
Crafting

Sure some of the things are locked behind levels, but as others said, if you are grinding mobs trying to level, you’re going to have a bad time.

Try to do some events, or the hearts. Take some time and explore and have fun. You’ll find that you can level up fairly easily and fairly quickly this way instead of staying near the starting point and killing the same low level mobs over and over again.

Honestly that tells you how great the system is.

When players dont even know what is actually available to them.

Recently got a friend playing GW2 and he was like lvl 6 or so and wanted to show him some stuff in the Mist and Spvp but he was unable to enter till like lvl 20 or something, which really annoyed me. Of all the stuff they locked from new players, why this one?

Doggie.3184:

Recently got a friend playing GW2 and he was like lvl 6 or so and wanted to show him some stuff in the Mist and Spvp but he was unable to enter till like lvl 20 or something, which really annoyed me. Of all the stuff they locked from new players, why this one?

Take him through the portals in LA

Doggie.3184:

Recently got a friend playing GW2 and he was like lvl 6 or so and wanted to show him some stuff in the Mist and Spvp but he was unable to enter till like lvl 20 or something, which really annoyed me. Of all the stuff they locked from new players, why this one?

That one’s definitely not locked. Just go through the portals in LA. The only thing that’s locked is having the PvP icon at the top left of the screen.

Samhaim.8956:

Leveling to unlock skills work just like it does on most other games, which imho is much better than having to kill x amount of mobs with one skill to be able to unlock the next, with every single weapon and attunement/etc, go forbid you made a necro at launch, the shivers from having to unlock death shroud skills above and underwater almost turned me off of the class as a whole…

I’m not saying the old system wasn’t tedious, but I don’t believe level gating weapon skills is a better solution; it essentially tossed the concept of “get better with the weapon you use” and replaced it with a very standard (and bland) system used in other MMOs.

Healix.5819:

You had to get up to level 6, but back then, level 6 took around 4-6 hours, assuming normal play. A level was supposed to take about an hour on average. It’s level 17 now, but the first 10-13 levels only take about an hour. In the end, you unlock your final attunement at roughly the same time.

Oh, I stand corrected on elementalists (that does also sound vaguely familiar, it’s been too long), was this true for other classes as well?

Galen Grey.4709:

2. Vistas and skill challenges arent locked, Like I said she hasnt reached level 10 yet on either alt much less 13 yet we did both Vistas and skill changes together. (I too was on a sub level 10 character)

Vistas are just hidden on the map, but challenges are definitely locked. You can complete a challenge if someone else who has it unlocked (it’s an account-wide unlock) starts it and you participate in it, but if you’re on a new account that hasn’t unlocked it yet all challenges (even the stupidly easy ones like Oola’s quiz) will give you a “This is too hard, I should come back later” message when you interact with it.

But you Know I am starting to become a bit skeptic new players are actually complaining about this. I have a feeling its just veteran players using hyperbole to drive up their point[…]

Why be skeptical? There will be new players who dislike NPE just like there were new players who disliked the old leveling system, it’s a simple truth that you can’t please everyone.

Terrahero.9358:

Galen Grey.4709:

Anet arent stupid, developing the NPE isnt something that was free for them.

They can still make mistakes. They overhauled traits last year April and not even a year later they already came out and said they are going to do redo it again.

Of course they can make mistakes and they definitely do make mistakes, all I meant is they dont do things on a whim. They didnt do NPE because they were bored they had their reasons.

Cyberspark.5820:

My friend got bored at level 7 of there being nothing but grinding on mobs, pressing the same 4 buttons. So we quit out of the senseless boring low-level grind. I bought a load of mats and helped them craft-grind to lvl 18.

. . .

Locked things:
Dodging (by virtue of not telling players about it for ~6 levels)
Underwater Combat (note for Asura this unlocks long after the quest that used to get you to use it)
Mail
(Guilds?)
Skills
Skill Points and Challenges
Vistas
Traits
Trading Post
Crafting
WvW
PvP

If you’ve played this game before, you should have known better than to let your friend try to level by simply grinding out mobs. Map completion, hearts, and such are all what get you most of your levels. He could also have already gone into wvw and spvp, via the asura gates in Lion’s Arch.

And of the list you posted, the only things you can’t do from level 2 are use traits (which you couldn’t use at level 2 before the NPE went in anyway), interact with skill points (I believe you unlock that at level 8 on your first character, which unlocks it for all future characters), and see vistas (map completion icons appear around level 5). Underwater combat isn’t introduced until level 8, but you can do it before then by getting yourself an underwater weapon (which you can do in wvw or spvp).

Now, is the NPE wonderful? Definitely not. But your friend was also going about playing in the “wrong” way if he was wanting to level efficiently.

DonQuack.9025:

Honestly that tells you how great the system is.

When players dont even know what is actually available to them.

Thats actually a good point!

Especially considering everything thats not available to them is clearly marked not only as locked but also when it unlocks.

Yet people seem they want to believe the system is much worst then it really is. Most of the things people report are locked really arnt, its just the system introduces them at a certain level like say vistas. Its clear though people arent complaining because they have no been allowed to do a vista cause they werent a certain level.

So I really wonder what is it…

Hyperbole? maybe people tend to exagerate a bit to try to force anet to revert the game to a state they enjoyed more?

Genuine Miss information? They read in passing that vistas are made visible on the minimap at level 10 so they assumed they couldnt do it before?

Hive Mind? They saw someone state how aweful NPE is because vistas cant be done before level 10 and they took that statement as fact because they shared the same feeling on NPE?

would be interesting to know.

Pandaman.4758:

Galen Grey.4709:

2. Vistas and skill challenges arent locked, Like I said she hasnt reached level 10 yet on either alt much less 13 yet we did both Vistas and skill changes together. (I too was on a sub level 10 character)

Vistas are just hidden on the map, but challenges are definitely locked. You can complete a challenge if someone else who has it unlocked (it’s an account-wide unlock) starts it and you participate in it, but if you’re on a new account that hasn’t unlocked it yet all challenges (even the stupidly easy ones like Oola’s quiz) will give you a “This is too hard, I should come back later” message when you interact with it.

You’re right, just double checked. My character was new but obviously my account wasnt

Andred.1087:

tigirius.9014:

People don’t understand sometimes that even though posts might seem negative when we come here to voice our concerns for the direction the game is taking in certain areas that it’s not because we hate the game or hate the people making it, it’s actually quite the opposite really we care enough about the game to put together our threads to let the developers know this is what they need to work on the game to make it so that those decisions that didn’t quite make the cut will be remedied in the future.

Yes but many of those posts are still uninformed and completely inconsiderate of the sheer volume of research and information ArenaNet has that we do not. And many of those posters, while they think they have good intentions, can’t even see that all they are really doing is demanding things be their way, rather than the way that might be best for everybody, which is often not clear to the players, especially not here on the forums, where a lot of people come solely to express dissatisfaction.

The biggest problem people consistently have with this game is setting their own expectations too high, and that’s not ArenaNet’s fault. That’s just those players’ inability to accept less than what they’ve come to think they deserve, or to understand how inconsequential all of this is compared to reality. At the end of the day, it’s just a video game, it’s purpose is purely for entertainment, so why are there so many people pouring out their hearts in the name of “trying to make it better” instead of just enjoying what it is? There are a hundred million other things you can do on the Internet. If GW2 doesn’t scratch all your itches, you’re welcome to fill that void with other things, too.

It’s interesting to hear people say that because the Sales figures speaks volumes about just what is actually wrong with the game. You can say you have all the accuracy in demographics in the world but when it really comes down to it if people aren’t happy they’ll stop spending and that my friend trumps anything else you can say about the issues this game faces. Supply demand my friend. I also find it interesting that you think that people who complain are automatically setting expectations too high, it’s a product, the consumer drives the product or the product is not successful.

Anyway I too hope OP that this expansion is a huge success and I think it will get there by their taking the time as Jon Peters said in the interview to review certain problems they’ve had in PVE combat that they never really had the time to take care of and that what Colin has said about traits is true as well which I think will help the NPExperience.

Galen Grey.4709:

DonQuack.9025:

Honestly that tells you how great the system is.

When players dont even know what is actually available to them.

Thats actually a good point!

Especially considering everything thats not available to them is clearly marked not only as locked but also when it unlocks.

Yet people seem they want to believe the system is much worst then it really is. Most of the things people report are locked really arnt, its just the system introduces them at a certain level like say vistas. Its clear though people arent complaining because they have no been allowed to do a vista cause they werent a certain level.

So I really wonder what is it…

Hyperbole? maybe people tend to exagerate a bit to try to force anet to revert the game to a state they enjoyed more?

Genuine Miss information? They read in passing that vistas are made visible on the minimap at level 10 so they assumed they couldnt do it before?

Hive Mind? They saw someone state how aweful NPE is because vistas cant be done before level 10 and they took that statement as fact because they shared the same feeling on NPE?

would be interesting to know.

Didnt get my sarcasm.
The sheer fact that there is so much uncertainty points to a failure of sorts in my eyes.
Like the removal of the first tp vendor in the starter areas. Technically one can simply run ahead a bit to get to the tp, but to an unknowing newcomer ( and admittedly myself when I rolled another char to test it out) I thought wtf I have no tp?

Now I knew the button to press, I knew to check the forums but for all intensive purposes to a new player, the tp does not exist. just like wvw, and a few other things.

Lol @ the Just go to LA and use the portals there. HAHAHAHA the sheer number of new players that I know that havent even left their own racial area. Is there actually something that shows new players the portals other than in the story missions?( i cant even remember if it was covered in the story missions)

New player experience? Please. It teaches almost nothing, causes some inconveniences , and if anything confuses new players that happen to talk to vets.

Oh wow dodge tutorial. I didnt even see it when I rolled a new char. Infact the only dodge area I even know of is in the Queensdale ( I assume it exists in the others) BUT

For example the Township Of Claypool has 3 great tutorial thingies on timing blocks, timing shots. Does something like that exist in the other areas?

Then again it is new player experience not improving new players knowledge or something like that.

My sister and Mom got the game, and both of them are not “heavy gamers” So this system might be a so called “Insult” for people who play games. New gamers, the system works. It slowly teaches them, and adds a bit more later and later.

I don’t really understand the problem…the game holds your hand at the start. I mean is it really that bad? I heard once you do it once, it opens up for other chars right?

What exactly does it “teach”? I dont see this new system teaching much about anything really. If you were to say it slows down information given so as to prevent overwhelming new players, ok then. But teach?

Teladis.1309:

My sister and Mom got the game, and both of them are not “heavy gamers” So this system might be a so called “Insult” for people who play games. New gamers, the system works. It slowly teaches them, and adds a bit more later and later.

I don’t really understand the problem…the game holds your hand at the start. I mean is it really that bad? I heard once you do it once, it opens up for other chars right?

thing is, i dont really think the “problems” for new gamers were really problems.

Skill points and vistas are mechanically no different from any interactible. Uneeded information on a map, is commonly ignored. Google maps doesnt erase a bunch of information, and its highly usable by millions of people. Skill unlocks per level is not any easier than skill unlocks per use, in fact skill unlocks per use is probably a better training mechanic overall, and combined with level correction, was basically a better system.

If the NPE actually made things easier, i wouldnt complain as much, but it really doesnt. NPEs primary concern was trying to create a greater feeling of progression and purpose to leveling. As a teaching agent, its pretty crappy.

As a smoothing out of the intial leveling experience its also poor.

It’s always weird to me when people talk about things not unlocking until level 4. How long does it even take to get to level 4 in NPE, assuming you don’t skip the introduction instance and head straight into a renown heart or two afterwards?

DonQuack.9025:

Lol @ the Just go to LA and use the portals there. HAHAHAHA the sheer number of new players that I know that havent even left their own racial area. Is there actually something that shows new players the portals other than in the story missions?( i cant even remember if it was covered in the story missions)

But the people that are generally told that are veterans who have new friends and want to introduce them to PvP/WvW but their new friends don’t have the short cuts active yet.

DonQuack.9025:

Didnt get my sarcasm.
The sheer fact that there is so much uncertainty points to a failure of sorts in my eyes.
Like the removal of the first tp vendor in the starter areas. Technically one can simply run ahead a bit to get to the tp, but to an unknowing newcomer ( and admittedly myself when I rolled another char to test it out) I thought wtf I have no tp?

Now I knew the button to press, I knew to check the forums but for all intensive purposes to a new player, the tp does not exist. just like wvw, and a few other things.

Lol @ the Just go to LA and use the portals there. HAHAHAHA the sheer number of new players that I know that havent even left their own racial area. Is there actually something that shows new players the portals other than in the story missions?( i cant even remember if it was covered in the story missions)

New player experience? Please. It teaches almost nothing, causes some inconveniences , and if anything confuses new players that happen to talk to vets.

Oh wow dodge tutorial. I didnt even see it when I rolled a new char. Infact the only dodge area I even know of is in the Queensdale ( I assume it exists in the others) BUT

For example the Township Of Claypool has 3 great tutorial thingies on timing blocks, timing shots. Does something like that exist in the other areas?

Then again it is new player experience not improving new players knowledge or something like that.

Ohh I got your sarcasm just fine but it was a valid point none the less.

Thats the whole point though. No game just dumps every possible feature in the first 5 minutes you join the game. Its not just Gw2 in many games the action house / TP person is something you come across down the line… much further down the line. They dont do that to be mean, they dont do that because every game designer had the same bad idea, they all do it to gradually introduce systems little by little. Anet wanted to be differented and dumped a ton of stuff very quickly. Sure to us MMO veterans it was not a big deal… we all knew the difference between vendor and an action house. But does absolutely everybody? and thats ignoring the fact in gw2 you have a truckload of different vendors selling different stuff not to mention vendors that sell stuff some of the time but not others, vendors that are only unlocked after you finish certain events, vendors that unlock after you finish a heart etc..

To us it sounds preposterous something like that can be intimidating but are you sure that applies to everyone?

I am not sure why you mentioned LA and portals… I didnt bring it up + nothing in the NPE expects you to use them!

I disagree. Teaching stuff is not simply something that happens through a dedicated tutorial that tells you step by step what to do. The fact instead of getting a new skill unlocked every 10 seconds you get a skill unlocked every 10 minutes means you get minutes using the same skill before moving to the next. That small detail makes it a lot easier for people to learn what their skills do. Think about it! in 10 seconds you’re not going to learn all a skill does and using 5 skills randomly as they come out of cooldown will make it very hard to memorize which effect comes with which skill. That in turn will cause a viscous cycle. I have no clue which any of the skills does what so I will keep rotating skills as they come out of cooldown which at the same time makes it impossible for me to tell which of the skills did what keeping the cycle going. On the other hand spending 10 minutes doing nothing but this skill and then the next and then the next etc.. will teach me in a holistic way what does what.

Experience and knowledge go hand in hand together. Based on the weapon skills example how do you think the experience of a player who has no clue what their weapon skills do and thus randomly spams them will differ from the player who knows what his weapons skills do and tries to use them strategically? Cause I am pretty sure the later the will have a way better experience and all he had to pay is wait a couple of hours more to be able to use 5 different skill while the other may likely spend 100s of hours “doing it wrong” just to save those initial couple of hours.

phys.7689:

Teladis.1309:

My sister and Mom got the game, and both of them are not “heavy gamers” So this system might be a so called “Insult” for people who play games. New gamers, the system works. It slowly teaches them, and adds a bit more later and later.

I don’t really understand the problem…the game holds your hand at the start. I mean is it really that bad? I heard once you do it once, it opens up for other chars right?

thing is, i dont really think the “problems” for new gamers were really problems.

Skill points and vistas are mechanically no different from any interactible. Uneeded information on a map, is commonly ignored. Google maps doesnt erase a bunch of information, and its highly usable by millions of people. Skill unlocks per level is not any easier than skill unlocks per use, in fact skill unlocks per use is probably a better training mechanic overall, and combined with level correction, was basically a better system.

If the NPE actually made things easier, i wouldnt complain as much, but it really doesnt. NPEs primary concern was trying to create a greater feeling of progression and purpose to leveling. As a teaching agent, its pretty crappy.

As a smoothing out of the intial leveling experience its also poor.

taken singularly you’d be right but imagine if google maps instead of just giving you an interface for navigating a map also include other stuff like ordering on line, bidding on stuff, looking up shop catalogs, looking up cinema information, shop opening hours, temperature maps, information on tectonic plate movements, tidal changes, plane arrival and departure etc.. do you think it will just enable all that from the get go or allow you to gradually enable feature after feature as you need them?

Softspoken.2410:

It’s always weird to me when people talk about things not unlocking until level 4. How long does it even take to get to level 4 in NPE, assuming you don’t skip the introduction instance and head straight into a renown heart or two afterwards?

level 4? 10-30 minutes i guess depends on how lucky you get with events

it doesnt make sense to try to present a simpler world when your world isnt actually built that simply.

Lets say some one is new to New York City. You are not helping him by removing trains from the map, because its one of the things he is going to need. Yes trains maybe confusing, but it is more confusing to have trains hidden from you, when you actually need to use them right now.

Lets look at the TP thing. The fact that there is a TP in Divinities reach does not help you. You have no reason to go to divinities reach until level 10, but it is highly likely your inventory may fill up, and you may want to sell something before level 10. Its also fairly likely you may need to buy new equipment.

Likewise skillpoints, the game was designed to introduce you to skill points before level 10, they put them near starter areas, But then they disable them.

In theory you can make things easier by limiting people to less information, but that only works when less information is required. Its actually more confusing than not to change the rules as you go, its also a bad idea to have different people experiencing things differently.

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Teladis.1309:

My sister and Mom got the game, and both of them are not “heavy gamers” So this system might be a so called “Insult” for people who play games. New gamers, the system works. It slowly teaches them, and adds a bit more later and later.

I don’t really understand the problem…the game holds your hand at the start. I mean is it really that bad? I heard once you do it once, it opens up for other chars right?

thing is, i dont really think the “problems” for new gamers were really problems.

Skill points and vistas are mechanically no different from any interactible. Uneeded information on a map, is commonly ignored. Google maps doesnt erase a bunch of information, and its highly usable by millions of people. Skill unlocks per level is not any easier than skill unlocks per use, in fact skill unlocks per use is probably a better training mechanic overall, and combined with level correction, was basically a better system.

If the NPE actually made things easier, i wouldnt complain as much, but it really doesnt. NPEs primary concern was trying to create a greater feeling of progression and purpose to leveling. As a teaching agent, its pretty crappy.

As a smoothing out of the intial leveling experience its also poor.

taken singularly you’d be right but imagine if google maps instead of just giving you an interface for navigating a map also include other stuff like ordering on line, bidding on stuff, looking up shop catalogs, looking up cinema information, shop opening hours, temperature maps, information on tectonic plate movements, tidal changes, plane arrival and departure etc.. do you think it will just enable all that from the get go or allow you to gradually enable feature after feature as you need them?

the map didnt do all this stuff, and they design interfaces to make those things actually very user friendly.
The answer to building a better UI isnt simply removing functionality, its creating a UI that gives you information naturally as you need it. hard locking people out of information is actually a really bad way to teach them.

I did not experience NPE myself but, my friend did. Both him and I were bored w/ Diablo 3 and wanted to find a new game to play. Since I already played GW2 for 2+ years before shelving it temporarily, I asked him to join me in GW2. He obliged and purchased the game the very same night. Unfortunately, he got bored by lvl 6 and went back to Diablo 3 and reactivated his WoW account. His reasoning was that he felt the game was trying to chain him down while he was trying to break free. It’s kinda sad because Level 1 – 30 was the best content design for ANET when this game launched.

phys.7689:

it doesnt make sense to try to present a simpler world when your world isnt actually built that simply.

Lets say some one is new to New York City. You are not helping him by removing trains from the map, because its one of the things he is going to need. Yes trains maybe confusing, but it is more confusing to have trains hidden from you, when you actually need to use them right now.

Lets look at the TP thing. The fact that there is a TP in Divinities reach does not help you. You have no reason to go to divinities reach until level 10, but it is highly likely your inventory may fill up, and you may want to sell something before level 10. Its also fairly likely you may need to buy new equipment.

Likewise skillpoints, the game was designed to introduce you to skill points before level 10, they put them near starter areas, But then they disable them.

In theory you can make things easier by limiting people to less information, but that only works when less information is required. Its actually more confusing than not to change the rules as you go, its also a bad idea to have different people experiencing things differently.

not that a new player would know this but you can sell stuff at repair vendors if you armor doesn’t need to be repaired you can also sell stuff at any heart karma vendor

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Teladis.1309:

My sister and Mom got the game, and both of them are not “heavy gamers” So this system might be a so called “Insult” for people who play games. New gamers, the system works. It slowly teaches them, and adds a bit more later and later.

I don’t really understand the problem…the game holds your hand at the start. I mean is it really that bad? I heard once you do it once, it opens up for other chars right?

thing is, i dont really think the “problems” for new gamers were really problems.

Skill points and vistas are mechanically no different from any interactible. Uneeded information on a map, is commonly ignored. Google maps doesnt erase a bunch of information, and its highly usable by millions of people. Skill unlocks per level is not any easier than skill unlocks per use, in fact skill unlocks per use is probably a better training mechanic overall, and combined with level correction, was basically a better system.

If the NPE actually made things easier, i wouldnt complain as much, but it really doesnt. NPEs primary concern was trying to create a greater feeling of progression and purpose to leveling. As a teaching agent, its pretty crappy.

As a smoothing out of the intial leveling experience its also poor.

taken singularly you’d be right but imagine if google maps instead of just giving you an interface for navigating a map also include other stuff like ordering on line, bidding on stuff, looking up shop catalogs, looking up cinema information, shop opening hours, temperature maps, information on tectonic plate movements, tidal changes, plane arrival and departure etc.. do you think it will just enable all that from the get go or allow you to gradually enable feature after feature as you need them?

the map didnt do all this stuff, and they design interfaces to make those things actually very user friendly.
The answer to building a better UI isnt simply removing functionality, its creating a UI that gives you information naturally as you need it. hard locking people out of information is actually a really bad way to teach them.

thing is you’re comparing something that has a ton of different functionality with one that does only a handful of different functionalities. That same streamlined user friendly UI wouldnt work if you added all that functionality I mentioned and what they would do is definitely not create a super cluttered UI that gave you everything at once. We know that cause they do that already. When you use google maps you dont get a little window with built in streetview in it, you have to enable streetview yourself.

Information Overload isnt helpful just like information deprivation. The trick is to gradually give people what they need which is what everyone does.

Sure triggering a skill challenge is no different than triggering a scout but there is more for a player to learn then how to trigger things. Gw2 is undoubtly the bulkiest MMO. Just think of the different kind of NPCs you find in Gw2. Scouts, Skill Challenges, Quest Givers, Hearts, Gold Vendors, Karma Vendors, Vendors that are also Quest Givers, Heart managers, Crafting Trainers, Crafting Vendors, Trait Trainers, Trade post, banker, guild banker, Guild commendation vendor, Weapon Vendor, Armor Vendor, Cultural Armor vendor, black lion weapon vendor, black lion armorer, Cultural Weapon Vendor, Dungeon Vendors, Laurel Vendors, Repairs, fractal vendor, battle master, commander trainers, Dynamic Event actors, NPCs with secret events, pact weapon vendor, order vendor, those npcs that run around to tell you there is an event in progress. A bunch of others I am probably missing…

Seriously we’re used to take things for granted but Gw2 is really one huge game. With other MMO has even 1/2 of these many different NPCs?

And thats just NPC types. If a new guy had to ask about how to get skills, how to get armors, how to get weapons, how to craft… etc.. each of them would be one big list of options and thats still discussing stuff other games do. Then you have stuff other MMOs dont generally do like Dodging, different class mechanics, dynamic events,combo fields, down scaling, underwater combat, mini games….

I think we just got so used to everything we tend to forget how big this game really is!

funnily enough they still barely teach new and old players about half of things listed.

velmeister.4187:

I did not experience NPE myself but, my friend did. Both him and I were bored w/ Diablo 3 and wanted to find a new game to play. Since I already played GW2 for 2+ years before shelving it temporarily, I asked him to join me in GW2. He obliged and purchased the game the very same night. Unfortunately, he got bored by lvl 6 and went back to Diablo 3 and reactivated his WoW account. His reasoning was that he felt the game was trying to chain him down while he was trying to break free. It’s kinda sad because Level 1 – 30 was the best content design for ANET when this game launched.

because in both diablo 3 and WoW you get access to everything in the first hour right? That might be what he said but he chose games that are far more restrictive for far far longer. How come he had no problem spending ours unlock stuff gradually in Diablo 3 but got bored in less then 1 doing the same in gw2?

And thats not considering being chained down while trying to break free is kinda the whole premise of vertical progression so he was fine with that for nearly 11 years in WoW (assuming he started at launch) but got bored of it in less then an hour here.

He may have given you that reason but his/her actions tell a different story.

I bought a second account over the weekend, and of course a few things annoyed me. One is that you can’t see PoI, Vista, or skill points on the maps. I know the trick of walking into WvW through LA, so I did that to go in and complete maps but gave up shortly after I realized I would not be able to tell what I was missing at the end.

Second, I forgot that new accounts start with nothing. My guide at the top right of the screen told my level 2 character to find new adventures in Lornar’s Pass. So I decided to check it out by going through the portal in LA. I immediately get killed by a bird upon entering the map… With 4 copper, I can only waypoint to a wp on my map, which is quite far from where I entered the map. So my level 2 has to waypoint to an area that she is likely to get one-shot trying to run back to Lion’s Arch. This was very confusing to me, a veteran player. WHY is the game telling my level 2 character to go to a level 15 map?

And finally… Knowing that they will be changing the way we earn traits makes me loathe to level my new characters. I don’t expect a refund of the gold and skill points used to purchase traits.

I know this has been discussed to death, so I won’t say more. I hope you find my adventure to Lornar’s Pass somewhat comical :p

I just got this 3rd account (yay sale) to do more pvp. I wanted an account for just pvp…. I had no idea I had to get to level 22. Ok…no big deal…. I bought some gems cards. Now I cannot convert gems to gold to power craft to level 22. Does anyone know how long I need to wait until I can use the convert gems to gold on a new account? I have searched forums and wiki. Maybe I missed something obvious. Thanks and apologies if this has been answered many times before now. Cheers!

PvpRebels.5190:

I just got this 3rd account (yay sale) to do more pvp. I wanted an account for just pvp…. I had no idea I had to get to level 22. Ok…no big deal…. I bought some gems cards. Now I cannot convert gems to gold to power craft to level 22. Does anyone know how long I need to wait until I can use the convert gems to gold on a new account? I have searched forums and wiki. Maybe I missed something obvious. Thanks and apologies if this has been answered many times before now. Cheers!

You don’t have to get to level 22. Go to LA, and go through the gate to Heart of the Mists.

ah yeah, thanks! <3

PvpRebels.5190:

ah yeah, thanks! <3

No problem.

I’m new to the game, but other than the monotony of spamming one—especially boring on an elementalist—the system didn’t turn me off of playing at all. I do wish the flow to the story were better, but the way abilities unlock overall isn’t really a problem. I do think that most who are up for the challenge of an MMO could handle it easily, but it doesn’t feel like it hurts my progress, and it makes the game simpler for others to get into.

There are people every day in gen chat asking for help with how to access their skill points, thinking they have to buy them, etc, so a little help isn’t hurting the player base IMO as a new player. I don’t get all of the elements of how things used to be, but grinding kills with each ability doesn’t really sound enjoyable. I go out, kill things, play, have fun doing events, and I get my abilities and traits as I go. I’m not sure what it is the OP and his friend were seeking, but I don’t find the game lacking at all in that regard.

I will say that having dungeons open up but the story not sinking with that is a little off.

As a returning player I was also kind of caught off guard with this new system when I made a character. Most of the stuff you mentioned wasn’t locked to me, but many of my abilities and skills were.

What was so bad about unlocking your weapon abilities through the use of that said weapon? I also am not a fan of the little arrow in the corner. Why do MMOs now days need so much hand holding?

From what I’ve seen, most new players are pretty happy with the NPE, when there’s isn’t a veteran telling them what they can’t do. The devs may have gone a little overboard with hiding features, I will admit, but players will discover it all on their own if you just let them play. Most of the clueless level 80’s I’ve met were rushed through leveling by a friend or guildie, and never had the chance to figure the game out on their own.

That said, it certainly is frustrating for many of us vets to deal with the NPE when leveling alts. The hitch is that the scaling system requires all level X characters to be equivalent in power. They can’t have alts unlock things faster than first characters, because we’d be killing champs in one hit.

Personally, I think the easiest solution is to have more of the locked or hidden features occur before level 20. If we could bypass the spoon-feeding with nothing more than a level-20 scroll, it wouldn’t be much of an issue. And of course: traits. I definitely want to have at least a minor, if not a major slot available by 20.

Olvendred.3027:

Vizardlorde.8243:

2- Boosters are easily available from gemstore login rewards and black lion chests opened with keys from mapping/personal story, laurel boosters are cheap and you can always find yellow mobs in all maps including WvW. New players might not know but it’s incredibly efficient and available.
3 it was part of NPE
no the B menu is only unlocked for players who already have a lvl 22 that has been to wvw.

2. Meaning, not at all available to a new player, unless they spend unnecessary amounts of money to buy the ones that can be bought from the gemstore. Gotcha.

Also, not intended to be the way you level. And boring.

3. No it isn’t. Trait changes were introduced in Feature Patch 1, in April 2014. The NPE happened in Feature Patch 2, in September 2014. Seriously, do some basic research.

4. I’m going to need something more than your word for this, since you don’t seem particularly informed about other things.

I’ve bought 2 new accounts in the last 2 sales and found out about the WvW/PvP locks on them.

The hot keys are indeed locked. However you can unlock WvW and PvP by going through the LA portals. Once they are unlocked the hotkeys are unlocked also, even if your only char is a level 2.

However for new players, they need to know this workaround, know where LA is, know how to get there and know how to find the portals and how to get out of both areas (not intuitive if you don’t know how to leave WvW and that the PvP area you enter is a tutorial with the portal to reach the PvP lobby at the top of a building, which means you need to know to go across the map, up some broken stairs to get to a portal that’s not visible on the regular map to tell you it’s there). So it’s a rather theoretical information that new players won’t have ready access to.

Cyberspark.5820:

So with the latest discount I urged a friend to get the game as I was getting back into it myself. And what I found was….upsetting? Disturbing?

Low-levels are a mess. From a launch message of ‘you can jump right in and PvP from level 1’ to everything being locked.

Skill 2 unlocked at lvl 2
Skill 3 unlocked at lvl 4
Lvl 6 you learn how to dodge
Skill 4 unlocked at lvl 7 (along with your off hand)
Skill 5 unlocked at lvl 10 (along with vistas)

Skill buying and skill points locked until lvl 13
WvW locked until 18, PvP until 22

My friend got bored at level 7 of there being nothing but grinding on mobs, pressing the same 4 buttons. So we quit out of the senseless boring low-level grind. I bought a load of mats and helped them craft-grind to lvl 18.

Now I know why lvl 20 boosts are showered on all of my characters.

I had this exact experience recently with a friend. I had to guide him up to 80 by telling him exactly what traits to buy. Exactly how to get geared. I even spent 50 gold for runes and such when he finally hit 80.

GW2’s leveling experience is a Bleeping mess. Why they decided to do this to traits show’s how messed up their management is.

I explained how to get ascended last night…………embarrassing is the word for it.

The change is something to be ‘endured’ instead of something that added any value

I don’t know why they didn’t just have a separate, optional, tutorial area…

Getting to level 20 is not some fix all for it anyways. They still screwed up the trait system.

Gulesave.5073:

From what I’ve seen, most new players are pretty happy with the NPE, when there’s isn’t a veteran telling them what they can’t do.

So much this.

If veteran players would just let their friends play it and unlock it gradually, they would have no clue otherwise. It really does unlock fluidly, unless you have a friend that keeps saying “oh man, you don’t have traits yet? you can’t click the PvP button yet?? omg you don’t see vistas on the map?? oh wow you can’t enter the WvW menu yet? that’s so lame you totally used to be able to, man they really screwed this up, the game used to be so awesome before, I’m so sorry man, I would understand if you want to quit.”

If you really want them to enjoy the game, tell them to play it, accompany them while they play, and let them discover it on their own. I know plenty of people brand new to GW2 that have gone through the NPE and still thought the level up experience was great simply because they didn’t have some negative person talking about how terrible it is now…

It’s not terrible. It’s different than what we had, but if you are completely new to GW2 it’s enjoyable and properly paced.

Odd the OP never returned to their own thread up to this point. I guess some people just like starting fires.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Odd the OP never returned to their own thread up to this point. I guess some people just like starting fires.

Thread isn’t even a day old. Not everyone keeps checking in every hour on the hour.
Though you are right — there are some people that enjoy starting fires.

this is what happen when you sell the digital version without a playing manual. at least something like bradygames guide (updated version of course) would be nice. of course wiki is there but the feel is different. wiki = wall of text.

anet can’t simply expect new players to guess what they should do next.

Azhure.1857:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Odd the OP never returned to their own thread up to this point. I guess some people just like starting fires.

Thread isn’t even a day old. Not everyone keeps checking in every hour on the hour.
Though you are right — there are some people that enjoy starting fires.

I agree not everyone visits the forum that often. However, I would think someone that starts a thread of this nature would check back for feedback related to their issue if it was that important to them. It just seems like a hit and run to me. I see that kind of thing here regularly.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Odd the OP never returned to their own thread up to this point. I guess some people just like starting fires.

It’s called starting drama, and unfortunately… it is done with varying levels of success on these forums and usually involves the heavy use of misinformation and hyperbole…

Pandaman.4758:

… but challenges are definitely locked. You can complete a challenge if someone else who has it unlocked (it’s an account-wide unlock) starts it and you participate in it, but if you’re on a new account that hasn’t unlocked it yet all challenges (even the stupidly easy ones like Oola’s quiz) will give you a “This is too hard, I should come back later” message when you interact with it….

If they thought skill challenges were too hard for new players they should have removed them from the starting zones completely. By locking them until a player is a certain level means that map completion on these starter zones is now very disjointed. What used to be a smooth organic process is now very chaotic. All the changes in the past year seem to be made without fully understanding the full consequences to game play.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’ve bought 2 new accounts in the last 2 sales and found out about the WvW/PvP locks on them.

The hot keys are indeed locked. However you can unlock WvW and PvP by going through the LA portals. Once they are unlocked the hotkeys are unlocked also, even if your only char is a level 2.

However for new players, they need to know this workaround, know where LA is, know how to get there and know how to find the portals and how to get out of both areas (not intuitive if you don’t know how to leave WvW and that the PvP area you enter is a tutorial with the portal to reach the PvP lobby at the top of a building, which means you need to know to go across the map, up some broken stairs to get to a portal that’s not visible on the regular map to tell you it’s there). So it’s a rather theoretical information that new players won’t have ready access to.

Thanks for clearing that up

As for new players not knowing about it… that’s kind of the point of why Anet did it. The information is (hopefully) fairly easy to find on the internet if they’re interested and want to look it up, but they aren’t directed to or shown the things in-game until they reach the level. Seems like a reasonable balance.

My best friend bought GW2 this weekend. He created his first character and I decided to join his adventure by making a new character as well.

We happily started completing Queensdale until we ran into the first skillpoint in front of the garrison. I communed with the place of power to get my first skillpoint while my friend was just standing there. He was confused and asked me what I just did. I explained to him that he had to stand in the glowing beam of light, press ‘F’ and that would give him a skillpoint for later use. He was just standing there, nothing happened. So I asked him why he wasn’t pressing ‘F’. He said “I am pressing ‘F’ but nothing is happening!”. I got really confused and asked him if he was lagging. He said he wasn’t. He then tried logging out and logging back in. Nothing changed. I told him to send a support ticket to notify Anet of a bug.

It took us literally 20 minutes of fooling around at the skillpoint before I finally found through using Google that the skillpoints are now locked for new players until level 10.

So far this NPE has caused both me and my friend nothing but frustration and it almost made my friend rage-quit on several occasions. But this super confusing moment at the garrison skillpoint was probably the worst NPE moment for both of us.

What the hell Anet?

Cazamar.7148:

I don’t get all the hate. It takes like a week to get level 20 and that’s taking your time and being a completionist. A little patience would have served you and your friend well. It is a great game.

A week is too much if you don’t actually enjoy yourself, way too much.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

snip

Cazamar.7148:

I don’t get all the hate. It takes like a week to get level 20 and that’s taking your time and being a completionist. A little patience would have served you and your friend well. It is a great game.

A week is too much if you don’t actually enjoy yourself, way too much.

You do realize that it has nothing to do with anet the fact that you gave your friend wrong information because you were not aware of the changes and that if you had decided to just follow him around and kept on your way none of that would’ve happened right?
A week to level 20 is like way over exaggerating, every new account gets exp boosters and it takes around an hour to reach lv 10 if you follow the hearts and do events normally, from there on you can the first PS chapter, which shouldn’t take too long and it leaves you at ~13/15 and from then on you can finish your first map and move to the second one and by then you’ll be 20 or really close to it. All of that can be done in 2-3 days if you play a couple or hours daily. Though if you’re really not enjoying the game on your first hours in, i doubt it has to do with anything NPE related and i’m inclined to think you wouldn’t enjoy it back at launch either, where it took way longer to level/unlock skills/unlock all of the weapon skills.
I recently got my gf and a couple of our friends in the game, and the only complain i heard was relating to the PS changes past claw island, which are terrible and thank god will be fixed, but there was nothing about the game being boring or how trait unlocking sucks, they all seemed to enjoy the game quite a lot and all i did was accompany them while they leveled while directing them to a big event/world boss/jumping puzzle whenever we were close to one.
New players don’t need to hear about veterans biased comments about the NPE, all they need is the occasional steering in the right direction, and after that whether they’ll enjoy the game or not is purely a matter of personal taste.