Guild Wars 2

I think the problem is ArenaNet went to fast, the change between older MMO and GW2 was too much for most player, right now they are trying to fix it but they are having a pretty bad time doing so. For my part, Iv’ been playing since open beta and I enjoy the game even more everyday, me and my brothers have gotten so good, dungeon are now fun and exciting, but it take time, lots of time to adapt, more than I though, before I was able to finish most dungeon without dying. WvWvW is also very nice when you have all dungeon gear and completed the map.

The problem with most of players right now is that they think the game is over when they get to level 80 or when they get a set of crafted exotic gear because they have reached the maximum possible stats they can get.

I love this part from the blog article…

“…what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible?”

The answer is, your MMO isn’t GW2.

But yeah, it does seem like the game was in some kind of trouble for them to abandon their content-design motivations so dramatically and bring in loot progression designed to occupy you for as long as possible rather than stick to their guns and core promises.

I would like to know why they switched so quickly, without even trying something else first, they just went backwards right away without even attempting any other ideas. Were they expecting to make a lot more money than they did?

NCsoft share value has been dropping since early 2011. this is nothing new.

xiv.7136:

Gele.2048:

hell no the servers are full

This.

As we all have to keep explaining to you people, the server lists population based on people registered to the server itself. It doesn’t matter if they even play the game any more.

If it wasn’t in trouble, I doubt the would be resorting to such radical measures like completely flying in the face of their own core rules and tenants.

Not that anyone should consider that even a remotely worthy excuse, mind you. Dishonesty is never a valid way to do business.

I told them ‘adding more contents’ isn’t the solution. They wouldn’t listen.

Al well. Going to enjoy seeing what they do in response to all these ascending gear complaints; well of course, that’s ‘after they’re done fixing the bugs with their new dungeons’ *chuckle.

It’s been in trouble since day 1. Hopefully, the MASSIVE CHANGES that are needed will change the destiny of GW2 for the better.

Plague.5329:

xiv.7136:

Gele.2048:

hell no the servers are full

This.

As we all have to keep explaining to you people, the server lists population based on people registered to the server itself. It doesn’t matter if they even play the game any more.

if that is the case, how come my sever switches between high and full quite often…I have been keeping track for a friend on another server to transfer over … but every time I saw it just high and called her by the time she logged on it had changed back to full… she was finely able to do the transfer just two days ago.

FluffyDoe.7539:

Raging Bull.5048:

It’s been in trouble since day 1. Hopefully, the MASSIVE CHANGES that are needed will change the destiny of GW2 for the better.

The longer they wait, the more trolls will pop up here in the forum. Sweet~^

Yeah, excuse me, but don’t call me a troll. Consider yourself as one if you like. If the game wasn’t in any sort of trouble, and if the direction they initially took was FINE, they wouldn’t be changing it later on (right now). There is, however, still much work to be done.

I think someone’s definitely in trouble.
I always come to the forum via the front page, and at the moment they have a “Sale” promotion; any copy of GW2 bought before November 26th automatically gets bumped up to Digital Deluxe.
Reeks a bit of desperation to me.

Raging Bull.5048:

FluffyDoe.7539:

Raging Bull.5048:

It’s been in trouble since day 1. Hopefully, the MASSIVE CHANGES that are needed will change the destiny of GW2 for the better.

The longer they wait, the more trolls will pop up here in the forum. Sweet~^

Yeah, excuse me, but don’t call me a troll. Consider yourself as one if you like. If the game wasn’t in any sort of trouble, and if the direction they initially took was FINE, they wouldn’t be changing it later on (right now). There is, however, still much work to be done.

Ugh. I wasn’t talking about you, chillax bud.

It’s more like every other person who makes up a bunch of worthless scenarios of how all their guildmates quit this game… how ascended gears made them quit…..

Give me a break. Players who quit right after they’ve played the game for 5 mins… trusted their guts & made the right decisions. And players who didn’t trust their guts, instead trusted their hopes but are now disappointed with the game… they are the ones making the resentful posts.

Cut it out ppl! Nobody forced you to play the game. You don’t have to get ascended gears to be OP, since the real competitive stuffs (where gears matter a lot) is in PVP anyways. If you’ve got a problem with game balance, send them a ticket and such at the suggestion forum & not here. These Anet Forum Mods clearly dunno what they’re doing (yah? you want to see fights break out? cmon. ban me, I dare you!).

There’s really no need to keep on making these complaint posts on the discussion forums. It only gives people like me the right to bash the game with solid facts that yall brought up in the first place.

And yes, call me a troll if you like. I can bash on people who have a lack of awareness for player feedback all day er day (ie. that’s the entire Anet management team -> all the engineers get the hook on this one).

-

Btw, what’s my point here? Basically, GW2 has gotten to this demoralizing point of relationship with its fanbase, because they have no idea how to keep a proper time management system, how to communicate with its players with clearity, and stick to their words.

a) The game was launched before it was ready.
b) Their clarification on ascended gears did no include the fact that:
c) they had said before that the highest level gears in which players farm for in-game won’t have any superior stats. So are they bluffing now?

Personally, I don’t give a kitten about all these new contents added to the game (I still think the game’s combat is terrible). But for those who do like casually farming for gears, they basically just got kitten bagged blind-sidely by Anet.

.* loud spectator clap for Anet *

Raging Bull.5048:

FluffyDoe.7539:

Raging Bull.5048:

It’s been in trouble since day 1. Hopefully, the MASSIVE CHANGES that are needed will change the destiny of GW2 for the better.

The longer they wait, the more trolls will pop up here in the forum. Sweet~^

Yeah, excuse me, but don’t call me a troll. Consider yourself as one if you like. If the game wasn’t in any sort of trouble, and if the direction they initially took was FINE, they wouldn’t be changing it later on (right now). There is, however, still much work to be done.

That is such nonsense, though. There is no “direction change” to begin with. You only perceive there to be one. I mean what the hell is a direction change here? Was it a direction change when they added exotics before the game launched? What if they had added Ascended weapons before the game launched, would that be a direction change? It doesn’t even make sense. You’re complaining about Anet adding a bunch of new items, and because you irrationally perceive that to be a “direction change,” which it isn’t in any way, you in turn perceive it to be a sign of “problems.”

From my perspective, there is no direction change, and so there are no “problems.” The only problem I can see, in fact, is the problem of the forums being flooded by the vocal minority who isn’t currently playing the game and enjoying it. Not like anyone’s posting on the forums while they’re playing the game, so that pretty much leaves just whiners. The sad reality.

This time next year id say the game will be in trouble when TESO comes out. By the time they fix WvW and PvP all the pvpers would of quit and TESO has pvp progression which this game needed form the start. Yes some ppl wont like the style of the elder scrolls but im sure a hell of a lot of other ppl will like it and it’s being designed by the same guy who bought us Dark Age of Camelot, the best pvp game to date.

fefner.5729:

This time next year id say the game will be in trouble when TESO comes out.

you know that teso uses the hero engine?, no content can make right what an awful engine destroys, have fun lagging with more then 10 people on screen.

Hey, if they need money that fast they could always sell the game to biofail. They is just so awsome at taking on mmo’s.

FluffyDoe.7539:

Btw, what’s my point here? Basically, GW2 has gotten to this demoralizing point of relationship with its fanbase, because they have no idea how to keep a proper time management system, how to communicate with its players with clearity, and stick to their words.

a) The game was launched before it was ready.
b) Their clarification on ascended gears did no include the fact that:
c) they had said before that the highest level gears in which players farm for in-game won’t have any superior stats. So are they bluffing now?

Personally, I don’t give a kitten about all these new contents added to the game (I still think the game’s combat is terrible). But for those who do like casually farming for gears, they basically just got kitten bagged blind-sidely by Anet.

.* loud spectator clap for Anet *

I can’t in 100% agree with the first paragraph I quoted, because they had an amazing history of clarity in GW1, which actually makes the whole matter worse.
I mean, look at their initial announcement on GW2: they didn’t have to do it, they knew many people will leave right away (=> less income in the shop), but they announced it anyway only to be fair towards their player base.
Where is that sentiment now, seriously?

I’ve wrote it many times before and I’ll keep on writing it until this account gets deactivated with my refund: their current way of “communication” adds insult to injury.

- calling “content locusts” who didn’t even bother to check what kind of game they are buying their most dedicated players? Really?
- totally abandoning the principle of clarity they’ve established over the course of GW1 and with the initial GW2 announcement by not informing the player base as soon as their concept changed so we had time to adjust / plan accordingly, but only 3 days before update? Without full information of the system?
- trying to do a PR spin and basically saying gear treadmill is such a bad word, let’s not use it? Like calling excrement a poo-poo would change a thing! Well maybe for a two-years old…

As for the OP:
yes, I personally think the game is in trouble.
As a matter of principle, you don’t do a 180 flip at the end of a long development cycle because 9 out of 10 times it will do you more bad than good.
ANet established themselves that players don’t want to play the same mechanics for 5 or 10 years, that the genre needs diversity, but within 3 months they’ve managed to make their game just like all the others, just worse, not learning a single thing from other developer’s experiences.

I can only see that as desperate moves.
I don’t know where they originate from, but it reeks of desperation, but the moves also seem completely pointless and for me, go against their financial model altogether as well.
In their blog post about Gems it was clearly stated that casuals / dedicated players are meant to be the main suppliers of Gems: hardcore players and locusts will have so much gold anyway that they’d just buy Gems for gold.

Anet needs money?
Do what you did in GW1: add things worth buying that people don’t feel scammed for!
Add pretty costumes (not some immersion-breaking crap like GW2 cap or sailor cap, seriously, anyone seen any character in one of these in game?), stop doing the RNG stuff that every intelligent marketer knows by now does not work on Western markets like id does on the Eastern!
And most of all, make your casuals and the real dedicated players happy, because they are the spenders.

Your monetization direction totally misses the target.
The whole shop and the direction of your game becomes more and more like games aimed at the eastern markets.
Please ask yourself, how did Aion do on the West?
Now, how did LotRO do on the West? Especially after they went F2P? And look at their shop, look at their sales of cosmetics, compare it with GW1 sales of cosmetics and with GW2 sales of cosmetics.
You will not have a game that pleases both western and eastern audiences.
You will not have a game that pleases both grinders and casual equally.
So please stop for a moment and check who actually butters your bread before it’s too late.

I’m sad it has come to this, I really am. GW1 was the single best game I’ve ever played and I really believed GW2 could only get better.
For 3 months, it was. Now it’s just like every other WoW clone out there: fighting on WoW turf without being able to match that game in almost any aspect.

I read many of the posts on the various forums and the undercurrent seemed not to be about not so much about the increased stats, but a feeling of being lied to or betrayed by Arenanet.

It kinda does’nt matter if this is true or not, it’s the perception that has and will do the damage. It’s kinda a shame this has’nt been explored more in all the articles, blogs and posts. The focus has always been on short term is it gear progression or not. Not what this perception will do over the medium/long term.

When a customer loses faith (perception remember is often more powerful than fact) in what a company says, then they are (even though it can take a while) less likely to buy anything from said company again.

If this was all part of a pre-planned move and its a transition phase as some have said, then IMHO it was handeled catastrophically badly by Arenanet. The best way to have done this, had this been planned months and months ago would have been to back in September, issue a blog saying ‘Wow looks what’s coming up and outlining the future of the game for the next 6-9 months" Mention the new tier, saying something like we did’nt have time to put this in but don’t worry…

Then have the CM team on red alert, answering questions in a concise, detailed and non PR way and so get the community used to the idea. Also being so close the launch the accusation of breaking promises would be less potent.

The way this was handled is imho a lesson in how NOT to release sensitive news to a fanactical customer base. For sure the community can be viewed as being too crazy, but Arenanet must also share that blame for not handling them in the right way.

Another point which was made on another forum was that perhaps Anet needed to do this, to ensure the health of the game. Now, this reason I can maybe, kinda and wind in the right direction buy however…

If you (say a games company) need to recover from disapointing release, worried investors or not having as many retained customers as you want there are a whole load of things you can do first. Such as giving a roadmap of where the game is going, new bosses to kill with new shiny items, boost the rewards in down levelled zones, introduce a daily quest to give extra karma for doing personal stories with someone etc etc.

Basically you try other stuff first.

You also need to look at how similar moves in other games have worked out. I.e learn from the mistakes others have made. The radical turn in direction of SW galaxies NGE, Radiance gear in LOTR, the proven negative effect of ‘content locusts’ and of power creep has on a game. If they have worked, great do it. If not then avoid at all costs.

The very last, desperate measure when it’s all financially about to hit the fan is to bet the company on a U-turn in direction, making your previously unique product a ‘me too’ and narking off your established customer and fan base in the hope your new ones make up for any loss of income from the old narked off ones.

A move which in my experience (not going to say what my RL work is, but I know about this stuff ) seldom works.

It’s all very puzzling and makes me wonder why what is usually a last resort, was in this case a first response.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Then have the CM team on red alert, answering questions in a concise, detailed and non PR way and so get the community used to the idea. Also being so close the launch the accusation of breaking promises would be less potent.

I couldnt agree more.
The problem is when even a dev, keep to talk in a PR way, whitout take away that veil of mistery. Like the last Q\A on Kotaku. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Aelelan.1639:

and now we suddenly have spit in their faces claiming that people will never play the game again and that all is lost for this game. I can appreciate toughness and a good verbal tear-down of an introduced mechanic, but these aren’t grounds to say “I’ll never play this game again.” especially after as big a change as this one.

While "spit in the face is strong language, I will go with it.

No, I did not spit in their face. I loved this game and often talked to people about its positive features. Since you used the spitting imagery, I will continue. They spit in my face. Linsey said the reason they introduced “gear stat” progression (changed their core product design) was for the “most dedicated players.” As soon as I read that, I felt the spittle hit my face.

I did not want this change. I did not complain about “no end game”. I played the game after lvl 80 they way they suggested in their Endgame Reimagined article and their Dev video on end game. And I continued to have fun. But when I read that I was just told that I am not a “dedicated player.” That I am not a valued customer. My support of their original design does not matter.

Next, you said people wanted this. We had a 222 page merged post about the Ascended Gear. I never saw a 222 page merged post about needing gear tiers and treadmills to make the end game interesting.

I did see some people complaining about lack of end game or being bored. Some of those people also wanted raids or some type of quest hub or the holy trinity. Those individuals did not like the core features of the game. They did not like the content offerings. How does just adding a gear tier help them? Where are the raids they asked for? Where is the holy trinity?

I have read so many excellent posts from people about how to make the overall game more interesting. How to give the Lvl 80 more to do? Those people were making suggestions within the scope of horizontal progression. How about implementing some of those instead?

Finally, yes Arenanet needs to makes money. So that means they are assuming that raid style, gear grinders will buy more in their cash shop. Really what is in there right now that they would want? If you say cash for gems to convert to in-game gold. Ok, then why didn’t they spend tons of real money to get that “elite” uber Legendary. That’s what they want right?

Arenanet has just removed a core feature that made it unique from other traditional MMOs. The game with its current offerings will not appeal to WOW and WOW clone customers for long. Then when they leave and people who hate the new gear stat progression leave, who will be left? Who will spend money in the cash shop? Who will buy the expansions?

I am done. Stopped playing on Sunday. Stopped buying in the cash shop.

Tried to come on these forums to help them understand that this is a major marketing blunder. That it will tarnish their brand, maybe permanently (Funcom anyone?).

Why? Because outside of this forum, gaming sites, bloggers, etc. are making fun of them and calling them out on the relinquishing of their principles. They are laughing at the fact they have radically changed their product to be like every other mainstream MMO only after 3 months.

Remember, for 7 years Mike O’Brien said that horizontal progression works. He practically said that the mainstream MMOs are doing it wrong. He made GW1 a financial success based on horizontal progression so he backed it up. Now, after only 3 months, they have tossed that aside. It makes them look bad and alienates people who hate “gear stat” progression.

dalendria.3762:

No, I did not spit in their face. I loved this game and often talked to people about its positive features. Since you used the spitting imagery, I will continue. They spit in my face. Linsey said the reason they introduced “gear stat” progression (changed their core product design) was for the “most dedicated players.” As soon as I read that, I felt the spittle hit my face.

Unfortunately this is what happens when developers attempt to be politically correct instead of telling it like it is. I’m sure she actually meant “those that rush to endgame and run out of stuff to do,” but had to tone it down to “most dedicated players” because it sounds….less harsh. Another reason to hate PR speak:)

That chart can’t be right; it has second life with 800k subs…

Aelelan.1639:

They listened to a portion of their playerbase – great. They put a plan into action to solve it – also great, but they didn’t put a necessarily effective one in. No reason to leave the game altogether. You call it departure from principles, I call it experimentation with solutions outside of the restrictive guidelines that they set forth pre-launch.

Normally, I would agree with you and give them some time. See how things play out.

But Linsey Murdock said, “This is just the beginning…. you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

She made it clear that this is not an experiment. They have plans to expand this new design approach. Also, she used the phrase “edge in end game content.” So when I read it, this is what I surmised “We will be doing more gear stat progression content in the future. If you complete that content, it will make you better or more powerful.”

If that is what you want, then this was all positive. It is not what I wanted and not the game I bought and played for 3 months. I have done this in other MMOs and do not like it. I wanted to have a choice in how I played. I did not want to play a game that gives me a new gear tier post-launch so I can have an “edge” (power creep). Because I know what usually follows. People who want or need these type of incentives to play, consume content pretty fast. Once they have all Ascended Gear, they will get bored again and hit yet another wall. What will Arenanet do then? Add a new gear stat tier? (gear treadmill).

I am not hoping on the treadmill anymore. Hamster rebellion!!!

ZombiesTT.3619:

That chart can’t be right; it has second life with 800k subs…

Actually . . . hold on.

Nope, some people I know say Second Life probably does still have that many people using it. Then again, it’s not really a game from how they describe it, but a sandbox. A graphical MUCK using 3D models instead of text.

Trust me, GW 2 is in serious trouble its just alot of people are in-denial. My guild has saw many people quit since launch, we’re talking 50+ people quit the game and some of these was fanboys from beta weekends.

Posted is a xfires data for Guild Wars 2, clearly shows the event spikes and quick drop offs. Sure, you can say…well not everyone uses xfire. Raptr also shows big drop off in players too. Even if not everyone uses either, it still shows a shocking amount of people quitting the game.

1. Free to play = People can play whenever they want, no reason to get $15 a month value out of the game – so quite alot of players will probably just log on for events // new content then go on haitus for months at a time.

1. Poor events // Bad content updates // Nerfs – tend to make people ragequit, which again ~ isn’t constructive or good for the game in general. Getting fractal groups for instance, taking countless hours to run 1 dungeon is very bad.

1. Server populations // WvWvW populations – If your on a low population server who always loses at W3, and don’t want to transfer servers, lets say you have a highly matured guild with many upgrades pre-done, but everyone else has quit the game / left the server..what do you do? Most likely quit the game yourself

You cant really compare how many active players there are now to how many players there were a month ago based on how full are servers.
A month ago this game was attractive to casual players which play max 2 hours a day.Now its more attractive to people who love the gear grind which usually play their games for 10 hours a day.So there could 5 times less players but the servers look equally full.
Im not saying this is true just trying to say we cant really tell if theres more or less players now.

I really hate to say it, especially since I had such high hopes for the game, but I think it is in trouble. Not because GW2 is a bad game, it’s not, but rather because people like myself had such high expectations, and visions that Anet didn’t share.

I’ll probably never “quit”, since you can’t really quit a game with no subscription fee, but I’m already starting to look at other games. This is hugely disappointing because I planned on playing GW2 regularly for at least the next year. Many of my friends have already moved on, and I’m likely soon to follow

Krebgoth.4603:

A month ago this game was attractive to casual players which play max 2 hours a day.Now its more attractive to people who love the gear grind which usually play their games for 10 hours a day.

That may be, but it means Anet has lost a significant part of their target audience. What they are left with is a player base that prefers a style of rpg that Anet did not set out to cater to: grind and gated content.

So there could 5 times less players but the servers look equally full.

In actual fact there are less players -and- the servers are less full.

A lot of folks seem to care an awful lot about how many people are playing. I don’t.

So long as it’s somewhere above the “enough people playing to keep the game running” mark, I don’t particularly care if this game is beating other MMOs, or if we have millions of active players, or what.

Maybe that’s because I’m not concerned about how well GW2 is competing and am more concerned with actually playing the game and having fun. Oh well.

Hell, several of my friends have quit playing already, but I haven’t. And probably won’t until the dev team essentially forces me to stop (whether by making more tiers after Ascended or whatever they choose to do).

I guess I’m just anti-social that way.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Trust me, GW 2 is in serious trouble its just alot of people are in-denial. My guild has saw many people quit since launch, we’re talking 50+ people quit the game and some of these was fanboys from beta weekends.

My guild is doing great – at this moment 9:51am PST on a holiday there are 53 people on.

Your guild failing is in no way an indication of the health of the game.

it’s not in trouble just yet because firstly the game is young, and thus has plenty of time to recover from mistakes and introduce updates to win back disatisfied players.

I would say that it’s not going to be as successful as the hype (what game is?) but it’ll still remain alive and well. Compared to other games in the genre (with the possible exception of WoW), GW2’s problems are a mere drop in the ocean

On google trends the search volume has dropped, but it’s still a level above most MMOs, and on xfire the only MMO ahead of it is WoW

A better indication of how well the game is doing:

http://www.guildwarstrade.com/gems

Both volume and price steadily increasing. The game is doing great

It’s mass effect 3 all over again.

At least that’s the feeling that I’m getting. Corporation pushing the Studio to do things.

They should have focused more on the wide open world MMO part of the game. Sticking so many different facets of the game into instances keeps players apart, crippling the game at its very foundation.

Personal story, dungeons, and even WvW feels like an instance. It seems fine for people enjoying that content, but its killed the game’s chances of being all that huge, because instead of feeling like a massive thriving world, it’s just another game (competing with single-player and coop games, not just MMOs)

For the same reason the game feels dead to a lot of people (a downward spiral leading more and more to quit) it also makes it hard to even tell how populated it is. So many more people are isolated in their little instances than anywhere they might see other players.

Game is doing fine, the new content is very popular. If they keep the monthly updates, then a large paid expansion every year, this game will last a long time.

Most of the people in my guild still log on, and we are a casual adult guild. Also the people on friends list (mostly people I know from GW1 and also casual) are still playing. Using your own friends list or guild as an indication of the games health is kind of difficult.

helladoom.4317:

Krebgoth.4603:

A month ago this game was attractive to casual players which play max 2 hours a day.Now its more attractive to people who love the gear grind which usually play their games for 10 hours a day.

That may be, but it means Anet has lost a significant part of their target audience. What they are left with is a player base that prefers a style of rpg that Anet did not set out to cater to: grind and gated content.

So there could 5 times less players but the servers look equally full.

In actual fact there are less players -and- the servers are less full.

Anet has no one to blame but themselves.

I really love the game and hope it will continue, but i did notice i can’t find people for dungeons (at list in Gunner’s-Hold).

As far as the gems price:
1. because there’s upcoming events (like black friday) – people tend to buy more gems since they now they will buy stuff
2. im guessing gw2 is raising it slowly and steady to encourge players to buy more gems with real money.

I can honestly say that i already got my money’s worth a few times and will be very dissappointed if the game will shut down.

Did not bother to read half the BS people wrote here all the way through. Why? Here’s my reasoning.

First of all, NCSoft earnings reports were cited. I doubt GW2 even made a big bleep on the earnings report of NCSoft. Why? The time for profit in MMOs isn’t in the first few months of its release, MMOs aren’t movies, MMOs are enduring profit. In GW2’s case, it’s an experiment to further go into micro-transaction profiting, which isn’t a heavily researched side of MMOs, and profit trends aren’t set since it is a new(er) business concept. But I will tell you for sure that micro-transactions within MMOs don’t show profit early.

Moreover, do you know what’s going on with NCSoft right now? Aion, one of the biggest NCSoft games went free-to-play in order to further look at micro-transactions, so essentially, the top game became the “2nd best” game, without a replacement thus far (Soul and Blade will be the main, also another game is coming out that is Lineage 1 based). This is a slowing down in the company’s earnings and a ramp up in the companies “New Projects” phase – which back a half year ago was the perfect time to sell company stock (if you’re an investor), especially because of the whole stock markets going down hill business that was happening. No one thought that US markets would have a lot of leisure product sales.

So let’s face it – before you start citing company earnings and stock investments, learn a thing or two about what goes on OTHER than the MMO you’re playing, also learn about what’s going on the world and step into investor shoes, not remain in your “end user” shoes.

Now that some false perceptions this thread was meant to give are rectified. Let’s address the “People are leaving omg omg omg”.

Have you been through a MMO release? Any MMO, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 2 weeks ago? All the players that initially start playing an MMO are not going to stay playing that MMO in 2 or 5 years from now. Why? Because people are fickle. But guess what? They already paid for the game, and keeping subscribers isn’t something that GW2 has to do, but yet they do improve the game and they do listen to customers in order to keep the people who truly enjoy GW2, not overly-dramatic WoW players who have large mouths and not enough brain to think before they type.

Every MMO loses people, and every MMO gains people. Not everyone is a MMO player either, some people started to play because of friends and for whatever reason, stopped playing, probably because their friends moved to something else. Just because your friends left, doesn’t mean there aren’t 2x more people that didn’t just start playing to replace them. Population isn’t something you even can tell anymore, especially because there is no command i’m aware of that tells you how many people are on the server. I see more and more people play WvW, so to me it looks like there are more and more people, where on the other hand a person levels low level characters will see a drop in population because not many people are in the starter areas anymore (comparing to beta or launch).

I would also like to point out that every MMO gets threads like “omg omg this MMO is DYING!!!” like every week or more often. Lineage 1 had “this MMO is dying” threads for 10 straight years, and guess what? Still playing in Korea. I just notice that US market is exceptionally whiny.

BrickMcThornbody.7094:

Snip

Very nice post. Yes, I have seen these same things with GW1 and LOTRO. This was especially so when LOTRO was sold to Warner Bro. Every move was an evil company trying to milk profit out of their poor naive user base. All the time there was posts about the game dying. Yet both GW1 and LOTRO still exist.

why would they violate their own principles and change 180 degrees unless they were in trouble?

fefner.5729:

This time next year id say the game will be in trouble when TESO comes out. By the time they fix WvW and PvP all the pvpers would of quit and TESO has pvp progression which this game needed form the start.

I agree with this, anet has until then to get it right because there is no doubt teso will take the majority of their player base if they don’t.

This thread reminds me of the saying in sports, “If you start listening to fans you will soon be sitting with them…”

I laugh at the doom and gloomers. Perhaps Anet was overamibitious. But it isn’t like the game is on life support. You always hear the whiners on forums, not the people who enjoy themselves.

No. I stopped playing at the 300 hour mark because I have extremely important studies to do. I logged on last weekend for the events because I somehow managed to find time. I very slightly enjoyed the event, it was a nice reward. However the new dungeon is great. Possibly the most fun dungeon I’ve played in GW1 and 2. And I want to play it some more. However I can’t.

My guild is still going strong. Nobody has quit.

Karizee.8076:

A better indication of how well the game is doing:

http://www.guildwarstrade.com/gems

Both volume and price steadily increasing. The game is doing great

Actually that means nothing.

First of all it is known that the price is not purely supply/demand but Anet actually influence the price as they have said themselves.

A rise of silver cost for gems and higher prices on the TP means that people can buy less gems with gold. That means it encourages people to buy them with real money rather than in game gold.

So, if anything, you can conclude Anet is encouraging people spending real money. That would mean to me they need more cash, so perhaps this actually means the game is not doing so well.

Gehenna.3625:

Karizee.8076:

A better indication of how well the game is doing:

http://www.guildwarstrade.com/gems

Both volume and price steadily increasing. The game is doing great

Actually that means nothing.

First of all it is known that the price is not purely supply/demand but Anet actually influence the price as they have said themselves.

A rise of silver cost for gems and higher prices on the TP means that people can buy less gems with gold. That means it encourages people to buy them with real money rather than in game gold.

So, if anything, you can conclude Anet is encouraging people spending real money. That would mean to me they need more cash, so perhaps this actually means the game is not doing so well.

The sheer volume increase says otherwise.

All I have to say Is… If they really “threw the manifesto out of the window” expecting to gain more players and sell more, they did a terrible and horrible move.

This “no grind idealogy” has been held by more than 7 years. They had enough loyal people to maintain and sustain this game for years. And turning back to the manifesto, once again, expecting more game sales and such while doing so, will actually work as the other way around: their loyal fanbase will leave; while the “new” players will play this game for a couple days and leave due to lack of “carrots” to follow.

Karizee.8076:

Gehenna.3625:

Karizee.8076:

A better indication of how well the game is doing:

http://www.guildwarstrade.com/gems

Both volume and price steadily increasing. The game is doing great

Actually that means nothing.

First of all it is known that the price is not purely supply/demand but Anet actually influence the price as they have said themselves.

A rise of silver cost for gems and higher prices on the TP means that people can buy less gems with gold. That means it encourages people to buy them with real money rather than in game gold.

So, if anything, you can conclude Anet is encouraging people spending real money. That would mean to me they need more cash, so perhaps this actually means the game is not doing so well.

The sheer volume increase says otherwise.

Where do you see volume in that graph? I see only price, and since it’s based on ingame observation i don’t even know how would they estimate volume.
Seeing price change we can guess several things:
- it is possible that the supply went down. There are less people buying gems with real money and exchanging them for cash (that is relatively bad – less real money income), or
- demand went up – people buy more gems for in-game cash (that’s also not good – might mean they buy less for real life cash), or
- anet intervened to increase prices. That’s also not good, because it suggests they want to encourage buying gems for real cash more (perhaps because they need more income)
Lot of suggestions and guesses here, no hard facts, but on the whole it doesn’t look as good as you suggest.

Also, there still will be gem spikes on events and sales (and we have black friday coming up). That doesn’t tells us about the general tendencies.

GustavoM.7605:

All I have to say Is… If they really “threw the manifesto out of the window” expecting to gain more players and sell more, they did a terrible and horrible move.

This “no grind idealogy” has been held by more than 7 years. They had enough loyal people to maintain and sustain this game for years. And turning back to the manifesto, once again, expecting more game sales and such while doing so, will actually work as the other way around: their loyal fanbase will leave; while the “new” players will play this game for a couple days and leave due to lack of “carrots” to follow.

Obsidian armor? PvP ranks? Tormented weapons? Those weren’t grinds? GW1 has as much grind at GW2.

Obsidian armor? PvP ranks? Tormented weapons? Those weren’t grinds? GW1 has as much grind at GW2.

Yes and the grind was optional because all it was is skin/appearance.

Elricht Kaltwind.8796:

Raging Bull.5048:

FluffyDoe.7539:

Raging Bull.5048:

It’s been in trouble since day 1. Hopefully, the MASSIVE CHANGES that are needed will change the destiny of GW2 for the better.

The longer they wait, the more trolls will pop up here in the forum. Sweet~^

Yeah, excuse me, but don’t call me a troll. Consider yourself as one if you like. If the game wasn’t in any sort of trouble, and if the direction they initially took was FINE, they wouldn’t be changing it later on (right now). There is, however, still much work to be done.

That is such nonsense, though. There is no “direction change” to begin with. You only perceive there to be one. I mean what the hell is a direction change here? Was it a direction change when they added exotics before the game launched? What if they had added Ascended weapons before the game launched, would that be a direction change? It doesn’t even make sense. You’re complaining about Anet adding a bunch of new items, and because you irrationally perceive that to be a “direction change,” which it isn’t in any way, you in turn perceive it to be a sign of “problems.”

From my perspective, there is no direction change, and so there are no “problems.” The only problem I can see, in fact, is the problem of the forums being flooded by the vocal minority who isn’t currently playing the game and enjoying it. Not like anyone’s posting on the forums while they’re playing the game, so that pretty much leaves just whiners. The sad reality.

I personally agree 100%