Guild Wars 2

Long queue times and self-important, primadonna tanks and healers complaining about how hard they have it? No thanks.

Unfortunately, ANet’s plan to eliminate the trinity was sabotaged by two things.

1. The ANet version of tanking was advertised as using CC to interrupt big hits. However, ANet also planned to have a large percentage of its content in the open world. Given the prevalence of CC available to players, bosses in group content were going to spend most of the time CC’d, hence the unpopular implementation of Defiance to obviate this. The difficulty in coordinating the use of CC to remove defiance and then CC the abilities that matter is too great for anything but a dedicated dungeon group, hence almost impossible in most group content. This effectively removed one of the “replacements” for the trinity.
2. In PvE, professions were intended to be somewhat homogenous. All professions/builds are able to bring similar things to the table as recompense for removing the dedicated roles used by other games. However, homogeneity in PvP is inherently boring, so professions and build options were designed to have differences. The way to make berserker’s lack of opportunity cost in PvE to be less of an issue would have been to concentrate more of the damage formula into weapon damage and skill coefficient, narrowing the damage curve between offensive, defensive and support specs. However, this would have made the defensive and support specs too powerful in PvP.

How about gw1 trinity
Heal Dps Control

Raine.1394:

No specific love for the trinity here. However, the game lacks meaningful combat roles. I think this is a problem given that humans generally approach objectives, in groups, through roles.

Similar thoughts here, and I haven’t found the combat dynamic or engaging enough to really make up for it.

Old school style trinity is bands, I love how it is here

Banewrath.5107:

I loved the trinity in other games myself. But I don`t think you can really blame its system more then you can blame the devs from past games limiting the way it was handled. Nobody wanted to play a healer class because only a certain kind of person enjoys that style of play and they were few and far between. They could have made the healer class more fun to play so it would appeal to more people but most games never did. So I don`t think the trinity was bad idea but the devs in past games never made you want to play a healer or a tank. And the investment required to be a good one limited what you could do outside your main role a lot.

Runes of magic had a really nice cross class system. I was a knight cleric and I could switch my primary to either to get the benefits of the class. I could go knight/cleric and tank in dungeons or I could go cleric/knight and main heal in dungeons. Each primary had its own gear set that was saved so you didn’t have to carry extra gear or juggle it around. Was probably one the best class systems in any game I ever played. They could have done something simaler here or had certain trait lines more dedicated to certain roles then they do now.

I do know from experience that the every man for himself type games do give the instant satisfaction faster then the trinity based games. But in the longrun the trinity type games rewards feel more gratifying.

Its nice there are somebody here was a previous ROM player.

But that’s the reason i hated trinity whole heartedly. When there are some world boss required 1 tank, 2 healers and every dps stand still watching, you knew something is wrong. A tank (knight/priest), 2 healers, both are (priest/knight), 1 healer focus heal on tank while the other healer heal the other healer standing further away.

All dps must not enter the boss attack range otherwise got 1 shotted by AoE. Only any class with XXX/knight or knight/XXX is able to withstand 1 single attack from the boss, dude, ROM is totally broken, and No, i don’t want to see GW2 go through that path again.

Sorry dude, even it was years ago, i was still full of rage to ROM.

I could never go back to a trinity system in any MMO after playing GW2. I nearly lost all interest in EQN when I heard that they may have a trinity system. I’d almost certainly stop playing GW2 entirely if they backtracked and implemented a trinity.

I find this post incredibly naive, as if op’s expecting anet to come out and say they wish they had stuck with a hard trinity. all combat systems will have issues, Anets approach is by far the lesser of 2 evils.

Crossaber.8934:

Its nice there are somebody here was a previous ROM player.

But that’s the reason i hated trinity whole heartedly. When there are some world boss required 1 tank, 2 healers and every dps stand still watching, you knew something is wrong. A tank (knight/priest), 2 healers, both are (priest/knight), 1 healer focus heal on tank while the other healer heal the other healer standing further away.

All dps must not enter the boss attack range otherwise got 1 shotted by AoE. Only any class with XXX/knight or knight/XXX is able to withstand 1 single attack from the boss, dude, ROM is totally broken, and No, i don’t want to see GW2 go through that path again.

Sorry dude, even it was years ago, i was still full of rage to ROM.

Yeah I won`t argue with you there. Runes wasn`t the greatest game but I liked the cross class system they had. There was never a shortage of healers because almost everyone choose priest as their secondary. It just made finding people to group with easier when they had the option to switch primarys to fill a role if they had to. So finding players was never much of an issue even though it was trinity based game. That’s was probably one of the only things I liked about that game.

The reason they shamed the trinity is goes it bit further than “lol trinity sucks.”

The logic behind the trinity is that it is designed for damage soaking (tanks) and damage undoing (healers). DPS is, well, you know. That type of gameplay is great for people who enjoy the mastery behind it. One of the joys of the trinity is predictability, if your team is this |<——>| good there is a good chance they will always be and you can rely on that.

The logic behind GW2 (remember there might be other ways of going trinity-less) is damage avoidance. The idea is that your HP pool never takes the damage that would have been soaked up by someone else or the damage that would have needed to be healed. Sometimes you have roles that have an analogy in GW2 (buff guardians are very similar to tanks, but instead of being the sole focus of the damage the help others avoid it). The joy of the GW2 system is that it’s unpredictable, every fight is extremely unique (at least, say, compared to the samey nature of trinity raids in other games).

Neither is more skilled than the other: they are entirely different types of skills. Trinity players are not noobs and nor are GW2 players. It comes down to personal preference.

GW2 is a place for players who want to enjoy an MMO experience, but despise the trinity system. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s not out to prove that the trinity is silly in any way. At least in my opinion.

If you don’t enjoy damage avoidance than you are probably playing the wrong game: don’t play a game for its graphics alone (to be honest there isn’t really anything with acceptable graphics for trinity-style players at the moment). Stick to what you enjoy: it’s why you play game – to have fun.

My personal opinion: hate the trinity.

Trinity is fine. Every MMOs except GW2 have it. Even new mmos that is coming soon have a healer class. Trinity is important for raids. The role specialization is needed for co-ordination in a raid. That is the reason why GW2 has no raids and all world boss events are a Zerg.

After saying that I doubt we will see Trinity in GW2 since it is developed specify without it. To add trinity now will mean a total redevelopment of its core design. It would be easier to build GW3!

It didn’t change until I went back and tried out TSW again. That experience was harrowing, being constantly on the waiting queue for any dungeon because I’m a DPS. I would never want a hard trinity back.

You don’t need the trinity, you just need specific roles which everyone can adapt for. A good example is the TA Aetherpath end boss. There’s the guy who lures holos and the guy who positions the boss.

Neither role needs any specific classes because any class could adapt to it with the right gear and skill setup. Bam! You got an encounter which has important roles which certainly isn’t a DPS fest and you don’t get stuck on the unwanted list for being a DPS class.

MMOs don’t need a trinity. Most devs are just too afraid or lazy to think of an alternative.

Neverwinter launched after GW2 with a traditional trinity system and it hasn’t really done well (I don’t think). So that I see no evidence that the trinity system would improve the game.

I think one of the biggest appeals to GW2 is the fact there is no trinity system. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve played a healer class in almost every MMO and loved it (never had to wait for a group), but it got old.

I like in GW2 how you pretty much have to fend for yourself. The other classes can certainly help you with damage reduction, absorption, slight heals, etc., but at the end of the day if you keep going down you can’t point your finger at the healer and say “omg you suck why didn’t you heal me!!”

I hated when some idiot DPSer yelled at me for not healing them when I’m literally burning all my CDs trying to keep some terrible tank up, or trying to balance healing 3 people because our CCer screwed up or one of the DPSers accidentally broke CC, or I’m trying to keep my kitten self alive because of it.

That’s the worst lol, having some stealth class mad I didn’t heal them when I can barely keep myself alive from the terrible aggro control/CC. We became scapegoats, and now finally in GW2 the bad players have to L2P.

I do not hate the trinity set up. It has it’s place; however, it’s place is simply not here. It does not fit with the vision of this game, and that is perfectly fine.

I will agree with others that running the trinity set up is limited. There is only so much that can be done with such rigidity.

I will also agree with the others that have pointed out that strategy, coordination, and teamwork can be accomplished without the use of the original trinity setup. These things are easier in established groups over pugs only because members of an established group are familiar with each other and their play styles. They know how to communicate, they know each others strengths and weaknesses, they know how to synergize. Pugs lack this only because they lack familiarity between the members.

See I don’t have anything against the holy trinity either….except for it’s prevalence. If you don’t like the trinity, you’re pretty much screwed….and I’m one of the people who don’t like it. Variety is the spice of life.

At least there’s one MMO I can play that doesn’t have the trinity in it.

Dead horse still dead, news at 11.

I, for one, don’t like the Trinity. It creates too many arbitrary restrictions in the way you play/build and over-rewards min/maxing over versatility.

Cloudwalkernz.1328:

Trinity is fine. Every MMOs except GW2 have it. Even new mmos that is coming soon have a healer class. Trinity is important for raids. The role specialization is needed for co-ordination in a raid. That is the reason why GW2 has no raids and all world boss events are a Zerg.

After saying that I doubt we will see Trinity in GW2 since it is developed specify without it. To add trinity now will mean a total redevelopment of its core design. It would be easier to build GW3!

You made some good point: The role specialization is needed for co-ordination in a raid

We need roles for coordinated events with large groups, but we do not need a trinity for this. Tequatl is the first step in the direction to coordinated events. Players have to fill their role like cannoneers, turret defenders/repairers or dragon killer. If the people know their roles Tequatl dies in 7 minutes. Otherwise he will live forever.

A big issue in GW2 is the fact that many encounters do not require roles. DPS can overwhelm anything. In many cases we have a singularity in last consequence where each party member is nuking down the target.

Arenanet has to create encounters where roles are needed and can’t be left unoccupied. Encounters must not be trivialised by sheer damage. In Canachs lair we had healing turrets which could be ignored . This was a bad design.

Belenwyn.8674:

Arenanet has to create encounters where roles are needed and can’t be left unoccupied. Encounters must not be trivialised by sheer damage.

+1

^ the problem is that they do this and PUGs dont bother with the content because it’s too hard compared to other existing stuff.

TA Aetherpath for example. It has a chance to drop unique skins, and gives a good bit of gold. But you rarely get PUGs doing it because simply its a horrible experience in one because it actually needs co-ordination, skill and non-Zerker gear which frankly most of the playerbase don’t have.

Not quite sure what you can do about it.

Belenwyn.8674:

You made some good point: The role specialization is needed for co-ordination in a raid

We need roles for coordinated events with large groups, but we do not need a trinity for this. Tequatl is the first step in the direction to coordinated events. Players have to fill their role like cannoneers, turret defenders/repairers or dragon killer. If the people know their roles Tequatl dies in 7 minutes. Otherwise he will live forever.

A big issue in GW2 is the fact that many encounters do not require roles. DPS can overwhelm anything. In many cases we have a singularity in last consequence where each party member is nuking down the target.

Arenanet has to create encounters where roles are needed and can’t be left unoccupied. Encounters must not be trivialised by sheer damage. In Canachs lair we had healing turrets which could be ignored . This was a bad design.

I kind of agree and dis-agree with your assessments. Yes, Anet need to create encounters where roles are needed.

The problem Anet and perhaps other MMOs (as well) is players don’t always know what they are required to do. The poster above mention TA Aetherpath is a good example. Unless Anet provide a voice server like console (Xbox360 for example) do. The contents are likely to be ignored by many players who simply could not be bother to learn.

I know some people will say you can download something like teamspeak but expect a causal player to get it, install it and use it just for an encounter maybe asking too much.

The reason why Trinity is used in almost all mmos is because the roles are well defined and people know what is expected of them. Personally I think GW1 with its duel professions got this problem solved. Sadly, GW2 is nothing like GW1.

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ the problem is that they do this and PUGs dont bother with the content because it’s too hard compared to other existing stuff.

TA Aetherpath for example. It has a chance to drop unique skins, and gives a good bit of gold. But you rarely get PUGs doing it because simply its a horrible experience in one because it actually needs co-ordination, skill and non-Zerker gear which frankly most of the playerbase don’t have.

Not quite sure what you can do about it.

TA Aetherpath is much closer to the Explo Dungeons Anet promised us ( except Arah Path 4 ) than any other Dungeon. Intersting mechanics, challenging and requiring coordination. You have even roles in this one. In the Slick and Sparky encounter, you can gain a buff that draws the attention of the ooze and you have to use it to suck up the oilfields.

Its a good example of how dungeons without trinity should be made, but sadly most of the people will ignore it because it is harder than the Call of Duty Tutorials.

Even without the holy trinity you can have good fights with team coordination. But many think that the trinity is the only way to make good bossfights. They forget one thing. The trinity has evolved over years, a decade to be precise. GW2s combat System without the trinity is in its infancy. They made many mistakes, which now lead to the Zerker or GTFO Meta. Bossfights are very simple and some are damage sponges. But seeing the encounters in the Molten Facility, Aetherbalde Retreat, Scarlets Playhouse ( yes the mechanics are more interesting than the ones from most of the bosses ) and the TA Aetherpath, we see that Anet is learning from the mistakes and using interesting and unique mechanics. The new combat system could evolve much faster than the Holy Trinity, but Anet has to learn from mistakes and keep being creative.

Here is the point:

ANet did not end the trinity. They just made healing and tanking not viable even though we have the options in most classes trait and weapon choices, leaving DPS the only role left for everyone in PvE.

People ask why other people would like a system like the trinity, but honestly, people just like to play different roles. Every class plays more or less the same in GW2:

Auto-attack, dodge, random-attack, dodge… The variety is very slim, and it gets fairly stale at some point. It doesn’t matter if you are a warrior in heavy armor or a elementalist in cloth, the mantra is damage to the face and dodge like a bunny.
With the melee/berserker meta in PvE, things get only worse. Everyone is a glass cannon melee class…

There is only only role to be played in this role playing game. How is that fun in the long run?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Here is the point:

ANet did not end the trinity. They just made healing and tanking not viable even though we have the options in most classes trait and weapon choices, leaving DPS the only role left for everyone in PvE.

People ask why other people would like a system like the trinity, but honestly, people just like to play different roles. Every class plays more or less the same in GW2:

Auto-attack, dodge, random-attack, dodge… The variety is very slim, and it gets fairly stale at some point. It doesn’t matter if you are a warrior in heavy armor or a elementalist in cloth, the mantra is damage to the face and dodge like a bunny.
With the melee/berserker meta in PvE, things get only worse. Everyone is a glass cannon melee class…

There is only only role to be played in this role playing game. How is that fun in the long run?

It’s an interesting point for consideration. Do people actually mind not having roles and just playing classes which play differently? The reason why we had roles I feel in old MMOs was because it was the only way to differentiate classes, the knight stands there and hits stuff, the thief also stands there and hits stuff.

For example, in Vindictus or Dynasty Warriors, you could say everyone is just the DPS, but they DPS differently, and that’s not really a bad system. Since GW2 is part action game, it could embrace that route. Not sure if it would work, but they could.

The current game does have clear roles in a lot of places though, especially in recent releases.

If they put in a trinity system a lot of players will hate it and leave. This is not what GW2 is.
So – an absolute NO to the introduction of any form of trinity – soft or hard.

Having played a lot of other games I dont want the Trinity. In other games its always hours mapping shouting group LF Healer, Group LF Healer. If your a healer you get a party easy, but may not have the best skills for PvP or leveling.

Galtrix.7369:

Until bosses are improved so that builds besides berserker are viable, the Trinity still rules all. The Trinity is the best system at the moment, and Anet is proving that with their non-trinity system. When conditions/bunker/support builds become viable in PvE, only then will Anet’s combat system truly shine. As it stands now though, the combat system is the worst combat I’ve seen in a very long time.

One of two things will happen if Anet ever decides to do something about this.

1.) Anet will improve bosses so that berserkers alone cannot defeat it. They need support/bunker/condition builds in the group.

2.) Anet will add the trinity. (This is a lot less likely). (.0000008% chance less likely).

It’s just a matter of when Anet will improve the bosses, because time is ticking, and people that don’t use berserker gear are leaving or have already left.

You seem to be completely confused because support does not mean you cannot play with berserker gear. Only viable supporting stat is boon duration which is tied to runes not your gear.

Combat system is bad when you play with other 100 people.

Nick.6972:

HA was intense with Infuse RC/Infuse Monks reuired 1/4 , 1/2 second reaction time.
It required good reflexes, mana management, weapon switching etc, it sure as hell wasn’t just standing in one place casting 2-3 heal skills again and again.

I thought tombs were pvp but I might have been mistaken. How many people were managing their energy in pve?

Im for or against trinity, there should be an evolution, sadly GW2 didn’t create one.
Holy Trinity was replaced with holy Zerging/DPS spam, occasional dodge and #5.

Zergs happen not because of lack of trinity but because of “everyone is rewarded for the participation”. DPS spam is the next logical step of zerging. You can get very active and engaging combat if you avoid zergs. I myself tried to do temple events in Orr (those that are being constantly zerged by the mindless 1-spamming drones) with just 2 people. Result can be watched here.

Nick.6972:

Im for or against trinity, there should be an evolution, sadly GW2 didn’t create one.
Holy Trinity was replaced with holy Zerging/DPS spam, occasional dodge and #5.

Looking back, I feel I should call you out on this. In FF14, there is zerging of FATEs all over the place in the game. Trinity or not, this is bound to happen when people are able to do it, it just makes everything easier. But even then, there are a few anti-zerg events that prove that even zerging cannot defeat everything easily.

In FF14, it’s the level 50 boss in Northern Thanalan, a chimera that has a single attack with no player cap on it, that’s guaranteed to ONE-SHOT everybody if it’s not interrupted. Here in GW2, during the Halloween events, the 3 champions found within the Labyrinth were examples of such anti-zerg powers. I saw multiple times when zergs almost or did completely wipe on these bosses, just due to how the mechanics were set up.

Suddenflame.2601:

GW2 Trinity is: DPS/Control/Support.

Other MMOs is: DPS/Control(called tank)/Support(healer).

Boom there its is!!!

Do you guys want holy trinity or not?

I think the only reason I would like holy trinity is more epic world boss fight and raid

The first MMO I invested heavily in was FFXI, where I participated for years in one of the top Notorious Monster Linkshells in the game. I’ve seen quite enough of “epic” raiding, and everything that comes with it – inability of most classes to effectively solo, vast seas of unwelcome DPS sitting around hub cities begging for teams with Tanks and Healers, the sorts of ridiculous drama that comes with Raiding Guilds, etc.

Regardless, it’s far far too late for this game to suddenly develop the Trinity, like some kind of gameplay cancer. At no point in GW2’s life will the developers engage in the kind of massive full-scale class overhaul that would be necessary. It doesn’t matter if you want it or not, it’s too late for them to put it in.

There is nothing inherent to the trinity system which allows for more difficult/complex boss fights. The only thing a trinity system gives you is a long queue for dungeons and a bunch of self-important tanks and healers.

Antiquated system best left in old school MMOs.

Another trinity thread. Nothing to see here. Move along folks move along..

To each man his own I’ll say.

It all depends on the player, Guild Wars 2 was fun while I had played it, just came back to see how “Alive” it actually was, and it still seems pretty much dead.

In “My Opinion”, Guild Wars 2 had an incredibly unique system going for it. But, coming from the old Guild Wars, too much had changed, some for the better, and some for the worst. The Trinity Removal for me, “Seemed” like a wicked idea at first, but then after countless of deaths, wipes, etc, etc. The whole idea of not having a “Main” healer, nor tank, seemed to be more or less frustrating than an interesting idea. Of course that’s my opinion.

I’m now drawing my attention towards FF 14, and in no way am I promoting it, as I’m pretty much already bored of that game as well having done everything you can until further expansions. But the trinity system felt so “Good” after playing Guild Wars 2. Everything seemed more controlled no unwanted deaths, or wipes, and it kind of gave “meaning” as to what it was like to be a “Tank” or “Healer” again.

Eliminating the Trinity is an awesome idea, and no others have done it before (not to my knowledge), but it seems like it doesn’t really promote the whole idea of “Teamwork”, and “Cooperation”, where as it more or less became about “keeping yourself” alive.

Again my opinion. Don’t take anything from me too seriously though, I’m still debating whether or not I should get back into GW 2, but recalling the last time I tried, and seeing dead area’s everywhere, where as FF 14 is literally full in most area’s, doesn’t sound too tempting. To each man his own though.

Butter.3024:

Do you guys want holy trinity or not?

I think the only reason I would like holy trinity is more epic world boss fight and raid

no, i do not want holy trinity.

more queues for dungeons.

no thanks.

The Trinity is mostly bad. Of course, Guild Wars 2 so far has mostly failed to realize the potential of a trinity-less system. I’m sure they will incrementally improve it though.

I don’t think the trinity is the root of the problem. I believe that people could care less about the trinity in and of itself, but people DO want to feel like they’re doing something to contribute to the party in a unique way; Something to make someone feel desirable, as it were.

It is my opinion that the reason people get bored with combat in this game is because there are no adequate replacements for the trinity. The whole “DPS, Control, Support” triad we have currently going on is fundamentally flawed, and it basically just boils down to DPS. Additionally, combo fields were meant to make combat more engaging, but the whole combo system is a bit of a bore. I hardly pay attention to fields that are not water or fire, and anything but a blast finisher is basically pointless, or has so little effect that it’s not worth the effort to really do.

^ whirl finishers are too weak i think.

leap finisher are ok self buffs though.

FluffyFox.2756:

I don’t think the trinity is the root of the problem. I believe that people could care less about the trinity in and of itself, but people DO want to feel like they’re doing something to contribute to the party in a unique way; Something to make someone feel desirable, as it were.

It is my opinion that the reason people get bored with combat in this game is because there are no adequate replacements for the trinity. The whole “DPS, Control, Support” triad we have currently going on is fundamentally flawed, and it basically just boils down to DPS. Additionally, combo fields were meant to make combat more engaging, but the whole combo system is a bit of a bore. I hardly pay attention to fields that are not water or fire, and anything but a blast finisher is basically pointless, or has so little effect that it’s not worth the effort to really do.

I can’t speak for other people but I hated the trinity and decided never to play a trinity MMO again, even before Guild Wars 2 came out. For me the trinity is a part of the problem.

FluffyFox.2756:

I don’t think the trinity is the root of the problem. I believe that people could care less about the trinity in and of itself, but people DO want to feel like they’re doing something to contribute to the party in a unique way; Something to make someone feel desirable, as it were.

It is my opinion that the reason people get bored with combat in this game is because there are no adequate replacements for the trinity. The whole “DPS, Control, Support” triad we have currently going on is fundamentally flawed, and it basically just boils down to DPS. Additionally, combo fields were meant to make combat more engaging, but the whole combo system is a bit of a bore. I hardly pay attention to fields that are not water or fire, and anything but a blast finisher is basically pointless, or has so little effect that it’s not worth the effort to really do.

Common misconception. That’s what dps is in other trinity-based games. Tank stands in front and takes damage, healer stands behind and heals damage, dps just stands there and does their dps rotation.

Here you have damage mitigation and healing abilities as well as straight dps. The interactive nature of the combat makes it significantly more interesting, I can combo my own fields or any other players. Of course this becomes more evident as you move into the more difficult content, most open world content and a few lower level dungeons don’t require that level of coordination.

Never going back to boring trinity games.

Karizee.8076:

FluffyFox.2756:

I don’t think the trinity is the root of the problem. I believe that people could care less about the trinity in and of itself, but people DO want to feel like they’re doing something to contribute to the party in a unique way; Something to make someone feel desirable, as it were.

It is my opinion that the reason people get bored with combat in this game is because there are no adequate replacements for the trinity. The whole “DPS, Control, Support” triad we have currently going on is fundamentally flawed, and it basically just boils down to DPS. Additionally, combo fields were meant to make combat more engaging, but the whole combo system is a bit of a bore. I hardly pay attention to fields that are not water or fire, and anything but a blast finisher is basically pointless, or has so little effect that it’s not worth the effort to really do.

Common misconception. That’s what dps is in other trinity-based games. Tank stands in front and takes damage, healer stands behind and heals damage, dps just stands there and does their dps rotation.

Here you have damage mitigation and healing abilities as well as straight dps. The interactive nature of the combat makes it significantly more interesting, I can combo my own fields or any other players. Of course this becomes more evident as you move into the more difficult content, most open world content and a few lower level dungeons don’t require that level of coordination.

Never going back to boring trinity games.

I don’t disagree with you, I think this combat system is a step in the right direction.

That being said, I don’t think it’s quite there yet. I’ve gotten numerous people to purchase this game and play because I told them how much I liked it, and what I liked about it. Only a few have really stayed and continue to play, and going back and asking those that have moved on why they quit, it’s because they felt the combat was too dull and they didn’t have any incentive to do anything except dps in groups, so they never felt “needed” for anything.

Not having a “holy trinity” is just fine; the bad thing is not having a proper system to replace it. There just needs to be more of a reason to run anything other than pure damage. I doubt anyone would be able to run dedicated healer or tank, but having them be useful in a party would be a great change and adds more of a dynamic to team play.

I liked my monk in GW1, thats all i’ll say about trinity

For me, the trinity is an atrocious, rigid, ridiculously simplistic mechanism masking a terrible void behind it. It’s for lazy and unimaginative people, who wants a predictable experience. I’m glad I only played one MMO based on it.

good game design is possible with and without trinity.

Good if it’s done well. Bad if it’s done badly.

They can still have raiding with the current class setup. It all depends on how raiding is built. So far we can have tanky characters and healers, the problem is the games agro table is adjusted for high dps characters to pull but Knights gear could be the answer to that since characters with high toughness are also big agro magnets. Toughness built characters also work well with being healed vs a character focused on vitality.

GW2 does have the holy trinity, its just more scattered and difficult to see.

i miss it evry day i play healer in evry mmo and the dungeons are kitten cuz they dont have it and the fights are not deep just spamm skills and doge from time to time and the programing on the fights from arena net must be whit cool down on hits from mobs cuz they gona wipe the enitre party instant