It's Not 10%
1 2
I definitely don’t dislike the berserker for the reasons you pointed out. It’s mostly that this game REWARDS going berserker more than anything else.
Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.
This guy did waste over 30 mins to kill that spider queen, even though it was extremely ‘noobish’. I just think that teamwork in this game should be rewarded no matter what. I don’t see much teamwork in running 5 zerkers, except, that maybe – you respect other people’s time more. Thanks for showing me your point of view.
You admit, that running a build like that that can literally face tank a boss is noobish, but can’t see why zerker is superior? No teamwork?
So rotating reflects, stacking might / stealth, drop fields that you need, clear conditions, keep up both soft and hard CC is not require team effort?
Open your eyes and see, don’t just look.
ps: I think i’m get it what you think. Lack of punishment. Without capped might, fury, vulnerability and without the most optimal build you can still beat content by brute force and as i mentioned above, the other side of the spectrum is bad too with the AFK auto attacking.
Those are actually some good points. The only point I disagree with is
“… and stop complaining.”
Neverrrrr.I definitely don’t dislike the berserker for the reasons you pointed out. It’s mostly that this game REWARDS going berserker more than anything else. This guy did waste over 30 mins to kill that spider queen, even though it was extremely ‘noobish’. I just think that teamwork in this game should be rewarded no matter what. I don’t see much teamwork in running 5 zerkers, except, that maybe – you respect other people’s time more. Thanks for showing me your point of view.
Actually, but that only my opinion, since my guild and I start running all zerker, we do much more teamwork. Like A LOT MORE.
When we use to play on our hybrid build, we were all pretty independant from each other. But with our group now, its all about teamwork. For a few example.
When we run full zerker, we usually have 2 warriors and 2 eles. We always talk to each other in mumble to time our interrupt. 2 Warrior with mace 5 and 1 LH ele with the skill 4. That 3 interrupt that we use at their best when you do the golem in CoE for example. We never did that before, because the golem don,t hit hard. But this golem can wipe most of us if we don’t pay attention. So we use our interrupt to stop his bigs attack, but that take coordination. We developed role. Who gonna agro the boss, who gonna push it on the wall, who gonna use his FGS at which boss? When i bring my guardian to Arah i have a huge job to do to make the lives of my teammate easier. I need to time my aegis, block and everything or they gonna die. Even after 1 year in GW2 during which i played full DPS character, when i started to do full DPS run (outside of Cof Path 1) we understood quickly that we had to develop new method to be able to survive and dps at our maximum. From my experience, dungeon never needed as much teamwork as they do since we run a full dps team in our guild.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
I definitely don’t dislike the berserker for the reasons you pointed out. It’s mostly that this game REWARDS going berserker more than anything else.
Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.
This guy did waste over 30 mins to kill that spider queen, even though it was extremely ‘noobish’. I just think that teamwork in this game should be rewarded no matter what. I don’t see much teamwork in running 5 zerkers, except, that maybe – you respect other people’s time more. Thanks for showing me your point of view.
You admit, that running a build like that that can literally face tank a boss is noobish, but can’t see why zerker is superior? No teamwork?
So rotating reflects, stacking might / stealth, drop fields that you need, clear conditions, keep up both soft and hard CC is not require team effort?
Open your eyes and see, don’t just look.ps: I think i’m get it what you think. Lack of punishment. Without capped might, fury, vulnerability and without the most optimal build you can still beat content by brute force and as i mentioned above, the other side of the spectrum is bad too with the AFK auto attacking.
“Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.”
That’s true, but that’s not what I meant. At the moment everyone who deals let’s say 5000 damage to the champion has guaranteed loot, anyone who won’t get that number ends up with nothing or with less karma/exp. I’m not sure how champions EXACTLY work, but my guardian, which focuses on healing/support while fighting tequatl doesn’t seem to deal enough damage to receive all 4 chests(big one + 3 bonus ones). I’m not exactly happy about that.
I haven’t really looked closely at the math but because of the base multiplier of 150% isn’t the overall loss to the critical hit multiplier (for max zerker) like 2.5x to 2.25x? So yeah…looks like about 10-11% overall DPS loss.
To me, this looks like people are trying to compare the direct result of the additional bonus from critical damage/ferocity without adding the base multiplier. If you had 50% critical damage, that would actually be 200% critical damage (base multiplier + critical damage). Lower critical damage to 40% and it’s 190%, which is a 20% loss to critical damage while 5% loss to overall damage.
Maybe I’m just not getting it though.
(edited by Cuddy.6247)
I definitely don’t dislike the berserker for the reasons you pointed out. It’s mostly that this game REWARDS going berserker more than anything else.
Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.
This guy did waste over 30 mins to kill that spider queen, even though it was extremely ‘noobish’. I just think that teamwork in this game should be rewarded no matter what. I don’t see much teamwork in running 5 zerkers, except, that maybe – you respect other people’s time more. Thanks for showing me your point of view.
You admit, that running a build like that that can literally face tank a boss is noobish, but can’t see why zerker is superior? No teamwork?
So rotating reflects, stacking might / stealth, drop fields that you need, clear conditions, keep up both soft and hard CC is not require team effort?
Open your eyes and see, don’t just look.ps: I think i’m get it what you think. Lack of punishment. Without capped might, fury, vulnerability and without the most optimal build you can still beat content by brute force and as i mentioned above, the other side of the spectrum is bad too with the AFK auto attacking.
“Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.”
That’s true, but that’s not what I meant. At the moment everyone who deals let’s say 5000 damage to the champion has guaranteed loot, anyone who won’t get that number ends up with nothing or with less karma/exp. I’m not sure how champions EXACTLY work, but my guardian, which focuses on healing/support while fighting tequatl doesn’t seem to deal enough damage to receive all 4 chests(big one + 3 bonus ones). I’m not exactly happy about that.
Get in a party.
I definitely don’t dislike the berserker for the reasons you pointed out. It’s mostly that this game REWARDS going berserker more than anything else.
Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.
This guy did waste over 30 mins to kill that spider queen, even though it was extremely ‘noobish’. I just think that teamwork in this game should be rewarded no matter what. I don’t see much teamwork in running 5 zerkers, except, that maybe – you respect other people’s time more. Thanks for showing me your point of view.
You admit, that running a build like that that can literally face tank a boss is noobish, but can’t see why zerker is superior? No teamwork?
So rotating reflects, stacking might / stealth, drop fields that you need, clear conditions, keep up both soft and hard CC is not require team effort?
Open your eyes and see, don’t just look.ps: I think i’m get it what you think. Lack of punishment. Without capped might, fury, vulnerability and without the most optimal build you can still beat content by brute force and as i mentioned above, the other side of the spectrum is bad too with the AFK auto attacking.
“Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.”
That’s true, but that’s not what I meant. At the moment everyone who deals let’s say 5000 damage to the champion has guaranteed loot, anyone who won’t get that number ends up with nothing or with less karma/exp. I’m not sure how champions EXACTLY work, but my guardian, which focuses on healing/support while fighting tequatl doesn’t seem to deal enough damage to receive all 4 chests(big one + 3 bonus ones). I’m not exactly happy about that.Get in a party.
To be honest I usually am in a party. At least on tequatl. I have no idea how this works, sadly.
I definitely don’t dislike the berserker for the reasons you pointed out. It’s mostly that this game REWARDS going berserker more than anything else.
Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.
This guy did waste over 30 mins to kill that spider queen, even though it was extremely ‘noobish’. I just think that teamwork in this game should be rewarded no matter what. I don’t see much teamwork in running 5 zerkers, except, that maybe – you respect other people’s time more. Thanks for showing me your point of view.
You admit, that running a build like that that can literally face tank a boss is noobish, but can’t see why zerker is superior? No teamwork?
So rotating reflects, stacking might / stealth, drop fields that you need, clear conditions, keep up both soft and hard CC is not require team effort?
Open your eyes and see, don’t just look.ps: I think i’m get it what you think. Lack of punishment. Without capped might, fury, vulnerability and without the most optimal build you can still beat content by brute force and as i mentioned above, the other side of the spectrum is bad too with the AFK auto attacking.
“Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.”
That’s true, but that’s not what I meant. At the moment everyone who deals let’s say 5000 damage to the champion has guaranteed loot, anyone who won’t get that number ends up with nothing or with less karma/exp. I’m not sure how champions EXACTLY work, but my guardian, which focuses on healing/support while fighting tequatl doesn’t seem to deal enough damage to receive all 4 chests(big one + 3 bonus ones). I’m not exactly happy about that.Get in a party.
To be honest I usually am in a party. At least on tequatl. I have no idea how this works, sadly.
Btw you get the bonust chest upon participating in the defending events and you need to tag and kill a mob there. But it’s still the same. Get in a party.
I definitely don’t dislike the berserker for the reasons you pointed out. It’s mostly that this game REWARDS going berserker more than anything else.
Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.
This guy did waste over 30 mins to kill that spider queen, even though it was extremely ‘noobish’. I just think that teamwork in this game should be rewarded no matter what. I don’t see much teamwork in running 5 zerkers, except, that maybe – you respect other people’s time more. Thanks for showing me your point of view.
You admit, that running a build like that that can literally face tank a boss is noobish, but can’t see why zerker is superior? No teamwork?
So rotating reflects, stacking might / stealth, drop fields that you need, clear conditions, keep up both soft and hard CC is not require team effort?
Open your eyes and see, don’t just look.ps: I think i’m get it what you think. Lack of punishment. Without capped might, fury, vulnerability and without the most optimal build you can still beat content by brute force and as i mentioned above, the other side of the spectrum is bad too with the AFK auto attacking.
“Nope, you will get the same reward as everybody else in non-zerker gear. Same gold, same champ bag etc. Okay random stuff is still random, but you get it.”
That’s true, but that’s not what I meant. At the moment everyone who deals let’s say 5000 damage to the champion has guaranteed loot, anyone who won’t get that number ends up with nothing or with less karma/exp. I’m not sure how champions EXACTLY work, but my guardian, which focuses on healing/support while fighting tequatl doesn’t seem to deal enough damage to receive all 4 chests(big one + 3 bonus ones). I’m not exactly happy about that.Get in a party.
To be honest I usually am in a party. At least on tequatl. I have no idea how this works, sadly.
Btw you get the bonust chest upon participating in the defending events and you need to tag and kill a mob there. But it’s still the same. Get in a party.
I do participate and I kill some mobs in each of those but I still don’t seem to get it. Is it some mob in particular I should focus on?
In all honesty, I’m extremely disappointed with the zerker nerf.
It should have been much more.
Same with me! Play Smarter not A TOTAL IDIOT with just Zerker!
Yumiko Emi Ishida 80 Ele, Hikari Kyoko Ishida 80 Guard TC-NA. Active RPer of NA megaserver.
I haven’t really looked closely at the math but because of the base multiplier of 150% isn’t the overall loss to the critical hit multiplier (for max zerker) like 2.5x to 2.25x? So yeah…looks like about 10-11% overall DPS loss.
To me, this looks like people are trying to compare the direct result of the additional bonus from critical damage/ferocity without adding the base multiplier. If you had 50% critical damage, that would actually be 200% critical damage (base multiplier + critical damage). Lower critical damage to 40% and it’s 190%, which is a 20% loss to critical damage while 5% loss to overall damage.
Maybe I’m just not getting it though.
lZoranl doesn’t know what his DPS is, because he believes that if it didn’t crit, it didn’t do damage.
Crit rate is not negligible cause its important for your total damage.
1000*0.48 + 2510*0.52 = 1785.2
1000*0.48 + 2140*0.52 = 1592.8
1592.8/1785.2=0.8922
thats 10.78%, which, to me, is close to 10% than your 15%
This is the correct math using the numbers from IZoranl (“Now assuming my non crits are 1000 my crits are 2510 currently. After the patch my crits will be 2140.”, “Now with your genius idea to incorporate crit rate (my crit rate is 52% btw)”).
If crit rate was negligible in DPS calculation, the precision would be useless. But we know, of course, that crit rate does matter. The fact that one throws out crit rate in their DPS calculation is quite an absurd lapse of thought.
I personally want Anet to stop calculating on a curve. Just show the real amount. Why should I have to get 1000 of something to get 60% of something else? And they wonder why people are confused and constantly complain and argue. They have made their build system convoluted. Plus i completely dislike diminishing returns concept. How about just make it impossible for me to put too much of something in my build instead of allowing me to create a broken build?
There are no diminishing returns with the stats and secondary stats in regards to DPS. In fact, due to the multiplicative effects of staking the 3 stats, an optimal distribution, will have multiplicative, or increasing, return by putting more into the stats. Every point you put in to the crit stats (after maxing out damage, because damage scales the best and is the optimal, but you can’t mono stat)), will have a greater effect than the last.
(edited by PseudoNewb.5468)
Rune changes and new Grandmaster traits will compensate or I’ll eat my hat.
I personally want Anet to stop calculating on a curve. Just show the real amount. Why should I have to get 1000 of something to get 60% of something else?
Developers (not just ANet) use larger numbers on gear to represent smaller actual numbers because our brains are disposed to think bigger is better. Getting +42 Precision looks more impressive to us than getting a +2% increase to critical chance. It also allows them to more readily spread actual stat gains across multiple items. For instance, after the Ferocity implementation, an infusion might allow someone to gain 5 Ferocity. It would take 3 such infusions to get a +1% to damage. If they used the actual number, each infusion would have to add 1% — or they’d have to resort to numbers like 1/3%.
It’s a good thing :P Zerkers are OP anyway and they are killing this game
Zerker only dungeons and fractal groups are full of elitist playersquitting the dungeon if one person gets downed and refusal to take players who are either new or not set up the way they want them to be
Im glad Zerkers are getting a little nerf
maybe it will teach the elitist players how to dodge and stop blaming other people for getting them killed
Well, those Trinity-loving players are the ones stuck on ‘Zerker’ for everything because most Trinity-based games it is about DPS-burn on mobs.
I haven’t really looked closely at the math but because of the base multiplier of 150% isn’t the overall loss to the critical hit multiplier (for max zerker) like 2.5x to 2.25x? So yeah…looks like about 10-11% overall DPS loss.
To me, this looks like people are trying to compare the direct result of the additional bonus from critical damage/ferocity without adding the base multiplier. If you had 50% critical damage, that would actually be 200% critical damage (base multiplier + critical damage). Lower critical damage to 40% and it’s 190%, which is a 20% loss to critical damage while 5% loss to overall damage.
Maybe I’m just not getting it though.
lZoranl doesn’t know what his DPS is, because he believes that if it didn’t crit, it didn’t do damage.
Crit rate is not negligible cause its important for your total damage.
1000*0.48 + 2510*0.52 = 1785.2
1000*0.48 + 2140*0.52 = 1592.8
1592.8/1785.2=0.8922
thats 10.78%, which, to me, is close to 10% than your 15%
This is the correct math using the numbers from IZoranl (“Now assuming my non crits are 1000 my crits are 2510 currently. After the patch my crits will be 2140.”, “Now with your genius idea to incorporate crit rate (my crit rate is 52% btw)”).
The only point crit rate is negligible is if it’s <10% or >90% IMO. Of course, the higher your crit rate, the bigger this crit damage change affects you. My elementalist, who uses assassin’s because she’s utilizing a lot of on-crit effects, is going to lose over half of the critical damage boosts she has (currently 101%). Honestly, if this was the entirety of their changes to zerker meta, they would be better off reducing the crit damage zerker got directly, leaving other builds alone. But since it’s not the only change they will be making, anet simply kittens builds that use critical hits for damage as opposed to straight power builds. Depending on what I see after the patch, I might end up taking my elementalist zerker after all.
Isnt that what anet’s trying to avoid?
It’s a good thing :P Zerkers are OP anyway and they are killing this game
Zerker only dungeons and fractal groups are full of elitist playersquitting the dungeon if one person gets downed and refusal to take players who are either new or not set up the way they want them to be
Im glad Zerkers are getting a little nerf
maybe it will teach the elitist players how to dodge and stop blaming other people for getting them killedWell, those Trinity-loving players are the ones stuck on ‘Zerker’ for everything because most Trinity-based games it is about DPS-burn on mobs.
No no no no. In trinity games you tank and heal the enemy to death, there is no such thing as DPS in those MMO’s.
It’s a good thing :P Zerkers are OP anyway and they are killing this game
Zerker only dungeons and fractal groups are full of elitist playersquitting the dungeon if one person gets downed and refusal to take players who are either new or not set up the way they want them to be
Im glad Zerkers are getting a little nerf
maybe it will teach the elitist players how to dodge and stop blaming other people for getting them killedWell, those Trinity-loving players are the ones stuck on ‘Zerker’ for everything because most Trinity-based games it is about DPS-burn on mobs.
No no no no. In trinity games you tank and heal the enemy to death, there is no such thing as DPS in those MMO’s.
R-IGHT :-D
15% sounds about right.
Berzerker gear and Power/Precision builds are too strong, and it’s killing the game. If you’re not smart enough to realize that, sorry, but you’re just wrong.
1) I’ll begin by saying, you’re wrong, sorry,
2) How is it killing the game? What are you even rambling on about you jealous toddler.
3) Just because you’re jealous of other players skill levels, why do you think it is ok to berate and injure them?
4) Condition bunkers are insanely overpowered and easy to play compared to power builds, nerfing power builds has just made condition bunkers unkillable by power builds.
What next Mr. PvE?
Understand the game in its entirety before throwing out immature blanket statements and saying I AM RIGHT! with no evidence or knowledge to support it.
Thank you and good day ol’ matey chap.
ALL IS VAIN.
PvP modes are the “endgame” in every MMO.
Stop failing at PvE, start fixing PvP/WvW. Thank you.
PvP modes are the “endgame” in every MMO.
Stop failing at PvE, start fixing PvP/WvW. Thank you.
It’s a good thing :P Zerkers are OP anyway and they are killing this game
Zerker only dungeons and fractal groups are full of elitist playersquitting the dungeon if one person gets downed and refusal to take players who are either new or not set up the way they want them to be
Im glad Zerkers are getting a little nerf
maybe it will teach the elitist players how to dodge and stop blaming other people for getting them killedWell, those Trinity-loving players are the ones stuck on ‘Zerker’ for everything because most Trinity-based games it is about DPS-burn on mobs.
No no no no. In trinity games you tank and heal the enemy to death, there is no such thing as DPS in those MMO’s.
R-IGHT :-D
For a brief moment i tought you are a filthy casual who don’t understand game mechanics. I’m glad it’s not true. -wink wink-
3) Just because you’re jealous of other players skill levels, why do you think it is ok to berate and injure them?
Pot. Kettle. You know the rest.
The problem is that dungeons directly contribute to requiring max dps. CoF for example. I wouldnt be caught dead tanking an elite godforged in that dungeon, mostly because I WOULD be dead if I tried even wearing PVT and had the protection boon perma-pasted to my guardian. Mobs like that you either skip (when possible) or kill as fast as possible to reduce the chance of it killing anyone.
There’s also a massive disparity with mob scaling. Champion mobs I can tank pretty easily with PVT, but you throw in an elite, that changes. Instead of being tickled for 2-3k hits, I’m being kitten d by an elite dealing 8-15k hits. Seriously, the kitten is wrong with mob design that that is happening?
I did a comparison of exotic effective power in another thread. I’ll post the results here:
Effective Power = Power x (chance to crit x crit damage + chance to not crit)
Armor:
315 Major, 224 Minor
Trinkets:
358 Major, 255 Minor
Weapon:
179 Major, 128 Minor
Jewels:
150 Major, 90 Minor
subtotal: 1003 Major, 698 Minor
120 Major/84 Minor (orbs on armor) + 300 major/minor (stats)
Total: 1423 Major, 1082 Minor.
On a standard toon, this comes to 2339 Power, 1998 Precision or 55% crit chance, and +72% crit damage from ferocity.
So, effective power would be 2339 x (.55 × 2.22 + .45) = 3908.
On old stats, you would get 62% from equipment, with an additional 14% from orbs, and 30% from stats to get a total of 106% crit damage.
So, effective power would be 2339 x (0.55 × 2.56 + 0.45) = 4346.
And, 3908 / 4346 = 0.899, or a 10.1% drop.
Anyway, you can play with these numbers all you want by adding extra stuff:
Might: +875 power for max might, before calculation. On zerkers, this results in the exact same 10.1% reduction in damage. This makes sense when you know that all the changes come from modifiers after power.
Fury: add 20% to crit chance, subtract 20% from chance to not crit. On zerkers, this results in an 11.8% reduction.
Sigil of Perception: add 250 precision or 11.9% crit rate. On zerkers, this results in a 67% crit rate, and an 11.1% reduction.
Sigil of perception + Fury: 12.5%
Throw bowl of curry butternut squash soup on top of that: 14.6% reduction
Throw on banner of discipline: crit chance caps out at 99%. Now, the only real differences are crit damage, with pre-ferocity being 281%, post ferocity being 237%, resulting in a 15.5% maximum possible reduction in damage.
This is where Anet can go lawyer on us with what they mean. The thing with fury, butternut squash soup, sigil of perception, banners, and spotter is that these aren’t “builds” or “gear” as we’ve come to know it. These rely on outside factors, such as consumables and teammates of particular classes, and can exist outside of the gear choices we make. Thus, when Anet said they were going to balance zerkers, they did so to the letter.
Likewise, not every class can have 300 power/precision/ferocity from traits. Many classes, such as necromancers and engineers, have all of those in different trait lines, meaning that the most they can get is 300/300/100, and thus depending on build chances the reduction can be greater or lesser.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
10%-15% it doesn’t really matter because the problem was not zerkers it was this game’s PvE. You can beat almost all of this game’s PvE content nude if you know how to dodge, nerfing zerkers will not change the PvE meta. What it will do is hurt WvW zerkers which are already in a bad place when compared to condi tanks and soldiers.
1 2