Guild Wars 2

In my opinion, critical food was way over-nerfed. -40% condition duration was more powerful then and now its ridiculous and mostly the main thing people use now.

Please change the critical food to ONLY be able to proc 3 times per second, this makes it a little better but not worthless at it is now.

Change the -duration of the Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup from -40% to -25% and change the vitality it gives from 70 to 140.

Why?

Why do you want a nerf?

I don’t think I understand this at all. In what way would it be better?

RoyHarmon.5398:

Why?

Why do you want a nerf?

I don’t think I understand this at all. In what way would it be better?

Its to powerful atm. Lemongrass + Runes + Traits = Immune to some conditions, food should not be that powerful.

Daecollo.9578:

RoyHarmon.5398:

Why?

Why do you want a nerf?

I don’t think I understand this at all. In what way would it be better?

Its to powerful atm. Lemongrass + Runes + Traits = Immune to some conditions, food should not be that powerful.

But then what do you do when you work up a powerful hunger?

I mean, in what way does it hurt you? Do you not have any lemongrass and therefore you feel less powerful compared to your lemongrass-eating peers?

I think it’s probably on par with most of the other high-level foods. I love my omnomberry creams or Orrian meat stew on my guardian, or my veggie pizzas on my ranger. I can’t really say I’ve ever seen anyone with the lemongrass buff and thought, “Man, that lemongrass is WAY overpowered. I can’t believe they let people use it.”
Nor have I ever been kicked out of a dungeon group because I couldn’t provide my own lemongrass. Nor has anyone ever asked. Or used it themselves. Like, ever, as far as I’ve noticed.

Daecollo.9578:

In my opinion, critical food was way over-nerfed. -40% condition duration was more powerful then and now its ridiculous and mostly the main thing people use now.

You’ll need to provide actual proof that it is mostly the main thing people use now.

I have never used it yet and still don’t plan to. Doesn’t fit my build and I would bet there are other foods that fit better with other players builds.

Ok, lets compare it to other food.

+40% Condition Duration.

So I have a proc that lasts 10 seconds, I apply 40% condition duration on it. Now its 14 seconds.

Now say my enemy has -40% condition duration, hes going to reduce that down to 8.4 (8 rounded down.) seconds.

- Condition Duration will always be much better then + Duration, because.

+ Condition Duration = Base + X%.
- Condition Duration = Total – X%.

That alone makes – condition duration a lot more powerful by far.

lol, right, so let’s nerf one of the only things that warriors have to deal with condition spammers in WvW. Great thinking.

Sil.4560:

lol, right, so let’s nerf one of the only things that warriors have to deal with condition spammers in WvW. Great thinking.

Total Immunity to all immobilizes/snares/chill does not sound a little broken to you?

Daecollo.9578:

Sil.4560:

lol, right, so let’s nerf one of the only things that warriors have to deal with condition spammers in WvW. Great thinking.

Total Immunity to all immobilizes/snares/chill does not sound a little broken to you?

No it doesnt. You need trait, full set of runes and food just so you could deal with movement hampering conditions.

Well, when Lemongrass poultry soup is nerfed for Daecollo, people will just migrate to eating Saffron Bread which has 5% less condition duration reduction but offers 20% less damage taken while stunned…

…then he’ll ask for that to be nerfed too :P

Of all things to ask to be nerfed…why this?

Daecollo.9578:

RoyHarmon.5398:

Why?

Why do you want a nerf?

I don’t think I understand this at all. In what way would it be better?

Its to powerful atm. Lemongrass + Runes + Traits = Immune to some conditions, food should not be that powerful.

You have to consider all that things you’d have to give up, in order to do this. Making Lemongrass Poultry Soup is also really expensive compared to other foods, as lemongrass is very rare. And there are a lot more ways to increase condition duration, then there are ways to decrease it.

This is really a profession issue, as some professions have next to no condition removal at all, while other professions has an almost endless amount of condition removal.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Daecollo.9578:

Sil.4560:

lol, right, so let’s nerf one of the only things that warriors have to deal with condition spammers in WvW. Great thinking.

Total Immunity to all immobilizes/snares/chill does not sound a little broken to you?

No it doesnt. You need trait, full set of runes and food just so you could deal with movement hampering conditions.

It reduces during by 98%, if you get 0.4 or below it becomes 0 and the condition no longer effects you.

If you are immobilized for 2s and have 98% condition reduction, it reduces it to 0.04, which rounds down to 0, aka the condition no longer effects you.

Its expensive… because its the most useful and overpowered food.

Aren’t you the guy, who wants revange for the Omnomberry Ghost nerf? Just don’t listen to him…

If you invest a lot of trait points, runes and food it’s fine for me. Those people loose a lot of “good” stats and are overall less useful, which makes it balanced again.

Edit: Here is his old topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-think-that-Lemongrass-is-too-powerful
Just don’t listen to him…

Trying to keep the OP food? :<

Reading these I wonder if the people that defend this food would be okay with food that reduced all incoming physical damage by 40%. If you play conditions, this food ruins you completely, especially in conjunction with the runes. It, much like the plus 40% condition duration food is grossly over budget on what it does, and a near requirement if you don’t want to worry about conditions.

Just make it reduce base duration, not total duration and it is fine. Then it works like the offensive variant, which again is too powerful compared to other ways to get duration, but would at least be less insane.

Rennoko.5731:

Reading these I wonder if the people that defend this food would be okay with food that reduced all incoming physical damage by 40%. If you play conditions, this food ruins you completely, especially in conjunction with the runes. It, much like the plus 40% condition duration food is grossly over budget on what it does, and a near requirement if you don’t want to worry about conditions.

Just make it reduce base duration, not total duration and it is fine. Then it works like the offensive variant, which again is too powerful compared to other ways to get duration, but would at least be less insane.

Now tell me, how this ruins your PvE experience. I have never seen mobs using food in this game before nor have I seen mobs with any condition duration decrease. So, how can this affect your condition damage at all?
If this was an issue with PvP I would ask a for a balance, but since there are no such issues with it in PvE just keep it.

The only people really running lemongrass are Warriors + Melandru runes +traits. if they have to lock themselves into a specific rune set and trait, I don’t see why it would be OP especially when the effects can be countered with a different type of food. Warriors need a little immunity to movement CC cause it completely shuts them down in a fight.

Rennoko.5731:

Reading these I wonder if the people that defend this food would be okay with food that reduced all incoming physical damage by 40%. If you play conditions, this food ruins you completely, especially in conjunction with the runes. It, much like the plus 40% condition duration food is grossly over budget on what it does, and a near requirement if you don’t want to worry about conditions.

Just make it reduce base duration, not total duration and it is fine. Then it works like the offensive variant, which again is too powerful compared to other ways to get duration, but would at least be less insane.

They should have a food that removes armor. -clothes on rennoko, suddenly rennoko has no clothes.

Gotta agree with Rennoko.

Vatras.2806:

Now tell me, how this ruins your PvE experience. I have never seen mobs using food in this game before nor have I seen mobs with any condition duration decrease. So, how can this affect your condition damage at all?
If this was an issue with PvP I would ask a for a balance, but since there are no such issues with it in PvE just keep it.

You’ve never heard of WvW; right?

Julie Yann.5379:

The only people really running lemongrass are Warriors + Melandru runes +traits. if they have to lock themselves into a specific rune set and trait, I don’t see why it would be OP especially when the effects can be countered with a different type of food. Warriors need a little immunity to movement CC cause it completely shuts them down in a fight.

The problem is, it (food, runes etc with -condition duration) also affects damaging conditions, and it has a greater effect than the food, runes etc which increase condition duration. Thus, I think Rennoko’s idea (make -condition duration calculate with the base-duration of conditions) is the way to go.

Saturn.6591:

Gotta agree with Rennoko.

Vatras.2806:

Now tell me, how this ruins your PvE experience. I have never seen mobs using food in this game before nor have I seen mobs with any condition duration decrease. So, how can this affect your condition damage at all?
If this was an issue with PvP I would ask a for a balance, but since there are no such issues with it in PvE just keep it.

You’ve never heard of WvW; right?

Pfff, as if someone ever sacrifices his/her whole utility/dps for 98% condition duration decrease. I never ran into people that were using that spec.
And just for your sake: Let them nerf it in WvW so the few people who use this will be unhappy. And btw: you can also use power-based builds (power-necro, bs-thief, etc).

And always remember: This topic was created by a guy that is annoyed because of the omnomberry ghost nerf. He has no interest what so ever in nerfing this, he just want’s revange on another seemingly “op” food.

No condition duration most certainly isn’t better, as the stat itself is already hard capped at 100%, which is easily reached with traits and fairly cheap gear. Critical chance isn’t capped until 100%, where it procs on every attack, and critical damage isn’t capped at all.

Sort of tempted to agree that it’s a bit OP.

Disclaimer: I’m a conditionmancer, and I’d like to see both this and Special Pizza cut to 20%. Pizza is such a no-brainer for me in PvE and PvP.

Conncept.7638:

No condition duration most certainly isn’t better, as the stat itself is already hard capped at 100%, which is easily reached with traits and fairly cheap gear. Critical chance isn’t capped until 100%, where it procs on every attack, and critical damage isn’t capped at all.

if you had -100% condition duration you would be completely immune to all conditions, it is capped, however there is a very good reason for that. Currently it is impossible to reach that cap.

Daecollo.9578:

Conncept.7638:

No condition duration most certainly isn’t better, as the stat itself is already hard capped at 100%, which is easily reached with traits and fairly cheap gear. Critical chance isn’t capped until 100%, where it procs on every attack, and critical damage isn’t capped at all.

if you had -100% condition duration you would be completely immune to all conditions, it is capped, however there is a very good reason for that. Currently it is impossible to reach that cap.

Aha, your’e talking about negative condition duration, that should really be made more clear.

This ‘-’ could be a minus sign or a dash, which is what I took it for. Not familiar with lemongrass, spoke up because condition duration is already lousy enough without nerfing our food.

JaNordy.6149:

Rennoko.5731:

Reading these I wonder if the people that defend this food would be okay with food that reduced all incoming physical damage by 40%. If you play conditions, this food ruins you completely, especially in conjunction with the runes. It, much like the plus 40% condition duration food is grossly over budget on what it does, and a near requirement if you don’t want to worry about conditions.

Just make it reduce base duration, not total duration and it is fine. Then it works like the offensive variant, which again is too powerful compared to other ways to get duration, but would at least be less insane.

They should have a food that removes armor. -clothes on rennoko, suddenly rennoko has no clothes.

nerf cloths

Eat pizza and cancel them out, it tastes better anyways.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

Sort of tempted to agree that it’s a bit OP.

Disclaimer: I’m a conditionmancer, and I’d like to see both this and Special Pizza cut to 20%. Pizza is such a no-brainer for me in PvE and PvP.

This is pretty much why it was added, I believe. Rare Veggie Pizza is a given, so it needed a counter. Nerfing Rare Veggie Pizza would have made a lot of players angry, so naturally, it makes more sense to add a new type of food to make more players happy. Food for everyone, yay!

Um, Rare Veggie Pizza is nothing compared to Lemongrass.

Rare Veggie Pizza =
Base + % = X.

Lemongrass =
Total – % = X

One just increases the base, while the other decreases the total.

To be the same Lemongrass would have to be toned down to 20% from 40%.

There is a reason why Lemongrass is more then double what all the other foods are.

Just set a cap on the amount of – condition duration you can have, like -60% at most.

Remove all consumables from PvP based aspects…

Its the only way to be sure….

Penguin.5197:

Just set a cap on the amount of – condition duration you can have, like -60% at most.

Or just nerf obviously overpowered food.

Daecollo.9578:

Penguin.5197:

Just set a cap on the amount of – condition duration you can have, like -60% at most.

Or just nerf obviously overpowered food.

But who would need to use this “obviously overpowered food”, when, according to you, all classes other than warrior have more than enough condition removals at their disposal?

After all, the reason why the duration reduction works on the total and not base is because you can have duration increments from traits, runes, gear and food, whereas duration reductions only exist in runes and food. The duration increments can easily reach the 100% cap, whereas the reductions are currently maxed at 65%. Maxed on both and it comes to an 0.7 multiplier for your durations.

Or is this just Step 1 on your plan? If you got your wish, would you just switch to asking for condition removals for Warriors?

Condition duration reduction should be capped at 35-50% or the formula calculating it should be changed. It’s just way too powerful even when compared to +condition duration.

With +condition duration, taking a 10s condition to 20s doesn’t do so well since most conditions are cleansed eventually (usually lasting no more than 10s). The only time you could argue +duration being OP is when it increases short conditions that are meant to be short for good reason (chill/immob/fire mainly).

Let’s change the perspective a little.

Imagine if you could get food that gave a flat 40% reduction to power damage. People’s flip tables, spit dummies; everyone’d reroll necros because odds are everyone in WvW will migrate to using -40% power damage ambrosia

As it is, the closest equivalent (toughness food) yields only a few percent power damage reduction; which makes sense – so what’s my point.

My point is that some classes and builds rely heavily on condition damage; and -40% condition is no less rediculous than -40% power damage, more so in fact since conditions cover both damage AND utility skills. Whereas power is only related to attacks.

As it is, I use lemongrass poultry soup almost exclusively, especially in WvW. All those necro AoE’s and whatnot just slide off – no need to bring a condition removal skill anymore

OP, you already made another thread on this very subject called

I think that Lemongrass is too powerful

Why did you need another thread on it? One is enough. You have also posted on other threads about this. Obsessed on this much?

kRiza krimos.1637:

Daecollo.9578:

Total Immunity to all immobilizes/snares/chill does not sound a little broken to you?

No it doesnt. You need trait, full set of runes and food just so you could deal with movement hampering conditions.

Pretty much this. It’s clearly not broken, or warriors still wouldn’t be at an inherent disadvantage against other classes. We need all of that just to still come out behind.

Further, it’s far from immunity. One second makes a difference, which is why I love Leg Specialist.

Do we know for sure that the -40% is added directly to the percentages of runes and traits? I find it hard to believe that one could actually achieve a 98% reduction in condition duration.

I would like to see some actual math before I believe these allegations.

Remember, 33%25%40% doesn’t always equal 98%.
Sometimes, it’s more like this:

(1-0.33)(1-0.25)(1-0.40)= 0.3015

So, even if you used all Melandru runes, lemongrass, and the 33% warrior trait… That would still only bring it down by a grand total of 70%, not 98%. And that’s assuming it all stacks, and that there isn’t some cap at 50% or something.

So, would reducing a hypothetical 10s cripple down to 3s be broken? That’s not quite the same as reducing that 10s cripple down to 0.2 seconds… And remember, this is only for warriors, since they have the -33% trait. And that only works for immobilize, chill, and cripple. Burn, bleed, poison, and the rest would be limited to a total theoretical reduction of 0.67*0.75=0.45-- so, reduced by 55%.

So, honestly, I think we have to ask ourselves at this point: “Do I really have nothing better to do with my time than argue with people on the Internet about something so pointless as this?” And on that note, I’m going to bed.

Ok how about we just make a -40% power damage reduction food, that way all these warriors and thieves get to keep their lemongrass the way it is and power classes get to feel how loosing half your damage is like. surely no one on either side would complain after that since there would be food against both damage types and nothing got nerfed!

RoyHarmon.5398:

*Words *

Game currently uses additive stacking not multiplicative. This is established as fact at the moment.

If they changed the game to use multiplicative stacking than this would no longer be an issue.

Penguin.5197:

Ok how about we just make a -40% power damage reduction food, that way all these warriors and thieves get to keep their lemongrass the way it is and power classes get to feel how loosing half your damage is like. surely no one on either side would complain after that since there would be food against both damage types and nothing got nerfed!

We already know what it’s like to lose a huge chunk of your damage. It’s called protection, which is a buff that actually does need looked at.

Daecollo.9578:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Daecollo.9578:

Sil.4560:

lol, right, so let’s nerf one of the only things that warriors have to deal with condition spammers in WvW. Great thinking.

Total Immunity to all immobilizes/snares/chill does not sound a little broken to you?

No it doesnt. You need trait, full set of runes and food just so you could deal with movement hampering conditions.

It reduces during by 98%, if you get 0.4 or below it becomes 0 and the condition no longer effects you.

If you are immobilized for 2s and have 98% condition reduction, it reduces it to 0.04, which rounds down to 0, aka the condition no longer effects you.

Its expensive… because its the most useful and overpowered food.

Game does fractions. A 0.4 second cripple will still cripple you 0.4 seconds. Ive seen the conditions flash on and disappear quickly.

Bleeds and Poison need to hit the second marks to do their damage so a bleed lasting 0.9 seconds does no damage.

Game does not round. A bleed that would last .9999 seconds will do no damage. It does not get rounded up.

Sil.4560:

Penguin.5197:

Ok how about we just make a -40% power damage reduction food, that way all these warriors and thieves get to keep their lemongrass the way it is and power classes get to feel how loosing half your damage is like. surely no one on either side would complain after that since there would be food against both damage types and nothing got nerfed!

We already know what it’s like to lose a huge chunk of your damage. It’s called protection, which is a buff that actually does need looked at.

Ooooh good idea! I would so love to stack those two together for a 75% damage reduction! Thats not even close to 90% like what can be done with lemongrass, so I dont think that would be op, right?

Lemongrass is only -40% condition duration. Melandru gives you -25%. Dogged March gives you -33%, but only for cripple, chill, and immobilize. As far as damaging conditions, you’re only going to have -65% duration, tops, but that is also requiring you dedicate your entire runeset to the cause, plus your food. Condition damage is less than ideal in WvW anyway because of the frequent cleansing from groups, so most people won’t run them in the first place.

That said, a direct damage reduction of -73% before armor would be massively overpowered due to the fact that classes like warrior and guardian barely have any condition options to begin with. Like it or not, direct damage is and will likely remain the most common form of reducing your HP, so to reduce that by such an absurd amount for classes that are often already too survivable to begin with is just insane.

Lemongrass is the equivalent of running around with the condition damage version of the protection buff, except that it cannot even be removed. Yeah warriors can dedicate themselves to making a near full imunity build by dedicating their runes to the cause, but you only need lemongrass to reduce condition damage by almost half and you dont sacrifice anything for it. You said that protection needed a look at, so why not lemongrass too? Cause no one uses condition damage? Whether a few people or a lot use it does not change the fact that lemongrass gives condition damage users a great disatvantage

That’d hold water if conditions were more viable to begin with in WvW for an individual player. People don’t avoid them because of Lemongrass, they avoid them for the reason I mentioned above. Most of the condition damage I receive is actually coming from numerous sources, even with Lemongrass. I still trait my warhorn to dump it off. Yes, I have it very easy against condition builds. I feel this is more than fair for my class given its other limitations.

Moreover, I don’t exactly see the food actually used on most of my opponents in WvW, quite possibly because many other classes don’t require the same protection from conditions that warriors do. Elementalists can throw off conditions left and right with little effort. You can bet that everyone and their grandma would be abusing a -40% direct damage reduction food right away though, because that’s the most common damage source. As it stands, it’s not necessary for many people to actually use Lemongrass and so I can’t really bring myself to see it as something so overly game breaking that it needs any sort of attention. It might be one of the only things making classes like the warrior half viable in many situations.

Something to keep in mind when considering direct damage; dodging, aegis, weakness, blind, and CC are a lot more effective against direct damage, because none of these affect condition damage that’s already applied.

If only there was a hard counter to lemongrass poultry soup… Something like Rare veggie pizza...

Also remember that some values of conditions round up or down on a second/few seconds.

Penguin.5197:

Yeah warriors can dedicate themselves to making a near full imunity build by dedicating their runes to the cause, but you only need lemongrass to reduce condition damage by almost half and you dont sacrifice anything for it.

But you do sacrifice something – you could be running some way better food buff in its place than something that is very narrow and conditional (no pun intended).