Guild Wars 2

Rogue.7856:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Highlord.7158:

So. Who thought these changes were a good idea, and why are they still employed?

I think they’re compelling as an idea. I think the execution . . . leaves a lot to be desired.

The whole idea of reusing already existing content and turning it into a reward isn’t a reward at all. It’s a punishment if anything, and it’s creating the very grind that they were trying to innovate out of their game from the beginning.

. . . what, exactly, are you on about?

I have to agree with Vayne here. There are a lot of people who either don’t know what they are talking about or who are making complaints, such as

“The difference in stats is so small, that all Anet teaches new players is: “expect to get crap-rewards””
Here he is talking about a reward for a brand new level 2 char, fresh out of the starter instance! Starter weapons always have crap stats. Who in the world expects to have a great weapon handed to you after playing for maybe 5 minutes? What game does that? This is an example of complaining to be complaining.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rogue.7856:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Highlord.7158:

So. Who thought these changes were a good idea, and why are they still employed?

I think they’re compelling as an idea. I think the execution . . . leaves a lot to be desired.

The whole idea of reusing already existing content and turning it into a reward isn’t a reward at all. It’s a punishment if anything, and it’s creating the very grind that they were trying to innovate out of their game from the beginning.

. . . what, exactly, are you on about?

Exactly what he said. Imagine walking into someone’s house and gift-wrapping their toaster and then giving it back to them and saying “happy birthday!”

hydeaut.1758:

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

This is a typical MMO experience at early levels. Some of them use numerical systems which require larger numbers which produce very small results, but the very small actual improvements in capability are standard. Heck, it doesn’t just happen at early levels. I remember at max level in one game getting a piece of armor that added something like 300 armor rating. I checked the damage mitigation percentage increase and it was ~.5%.

“We’re sorry, Jimmy, but unfortunately we couldn’t buy you your new PC for christmas.”
“Aw, it’s okay, I under-”
“As such, we have decided to disassemble the one you have. You get the graphic card this christmas, CPU on your birthday, then the monitor next christmas, then one RAM module on your next birthday, and so on. You’ll be able to play again in a few years. Merry christmas !”

Unfortunately for Jim, he was using four RAM modules.

Jokes aside, this is what it feels like, and I look forward their fix ; I hope they’ll go backwards and instead give us true rewards, although I doubt they will.

You know what this kitten kind of “progression” reminds me of?

Grindy asian MMO’s, the kind that are popular on the asian market.

Makes me strongly feel as if we are all getting kittened over royally with an absolutely kitten leveling experience because this new system would go down better in the Chinese market.

The leveling in GW2 was praised for its diverse tasks in quests, using bundles to feed mobs or crafting with materials you found. And all this is just, gone.
I used a lv20 scroll on an Ele, 25% of my way to max level, and i only had 1 utility skill, no traits at all, and i was even still missing one of the Attunements.

As i said, i am convinced they are gutting the experience for the players from the western market, who dont enjoy grinding for basic skills, for the sake of the asian market (in particular China).
Glad to see we’re still relevant arenanet…

Not sure why my topic title keeps getting edited. I thought it was ok to express my opinion in a none offensive manner. I feel that this is not offense and more importantly factual to the point of the discussion. Please don’t remove “is a complete joke”… because it truly is a joke. A very sad and insulting one…

What is offensive and insulting and has no place in the game is calling this system you implemented ‘New’ and ‘Rewarding’ over the old system… It is the exact opposite of this. You have stripped out the hint system and gated content, calling it ‘rewarding’. You must be joking! You can have every single ‘reward’ I get from leveling, which are for the most part nothing new than what you started out with.

There is nothing “New” or “Rewarding” from the new system. Its complete trash… please take it back and give me back my ability to play the game freely.

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

TooBz.3065:

I think the problem isn’t that the reward isn’t sufficient for a start instance. I think the problem is that the reward is less than it was.

No one likes having something taken away or delayed. It’s like being told that instead of getting a weekly paycheck, you’ll go no pay in January, but your pay in March, May, and July will be increased to make up for it.

Except that over all the rewards are greater. I hit level 59 on an alt today and got rare boots. That’s something that didn’t used to happen.

So getting a slightly better main hand instead of the off hand in the starter instance is pretty much meaningless in the context, since over all, rewards for leveling have been increased. In fact, they barely existed before.

Rogue.7856:

Not sure why my topic title keeps getting edited. I thought it was ok to express my opinion in a none offensive manner. I feel that this is not offense and more importantly factual to the point of the discussion. Please don’t remove “is a complete joke”… because it truly is a joke. A very sad and insulting one…

What is offensive and insulting and has no place in the game is calling this system you implemented ‘New’ and ‘Rewarding’ over the old system… It is the exact opposite of this. You have stripped out the hint system and gated content, calling it ‘rewarding’. You must be joking! You can have every single ‘reward’ I get from leveling, which are for the most part nothing new than what you started out with.

There is nothing “New” or “Rewarding” from the new system. Its complete trash… please take it back and give me back my ability to play the game freely.

The fact that you can’t see calling it a complete joke is in itself problematical. I can see a problem with it. Nor do I think saying it’s complete trash is constructive.

You never had the ability to play the game freely. Skills still unlocked at different levels, and the weapon swap still unlocked at different levels. To say that you played freely before is a misnomer.

But most of all, the new system does end up being more rewarding, and that’s a fact. You may not like the rewards at lower levels, but since there were no rewards at higher levels, the new system is in fact, factually more rewarding.

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

But we really are talking 10 minutes into the game. New weapons drop more often now, remember? I had new weapons a couple of minutes later. I’m still not sure that what they would rather have is an issue, because no one is usually thinking that way.

New player in a game, you see what drops. You don’t get your first reward in a game and think I’d rather have X. It comes fast enough anyway.

Vayne.8563:

Rogue.7856:

Not sure why my topic title keeps getting edited. I thought it was ok to express my opinion in a none offensive manner. I feel that this is not offense and more importantly factual to the point of the discussion. Please don’t remove “is a complete joke”… because it truly is a joke. A very sad and insulting one…

What is offensive and insulting and has no place in the game is calling this system you implemented ‘New’ and ‘Rewarding’ over the old system… It is the exact opposite of this. You have stripped out the hint system and gated content, calling it ‘rewarding’. You must be joking! You can have every single ‘reward’ I get from leveling, which are for the most part nothing new than what you started out with.

There is nothing “New” or “Rewarding” from the new system. Its complete trash… please take it back and give me back my ability to play the game freely.

The fact that you can’t see calling it a complete joke is in itself problematical. I can see a problem with it. Nor do I think saying it’s complete trash is constructive.

You never had the ability to play the game freely. Skills still unlocked at different levels, and the weapon swap still unlocked at different levels. To say that you played freely before is a misnomer.

But most of all, the new system does end up being more rewarding, and that’s a fact. You may not like the rewards at lower levels, but since there were no rewards at higher levels, the new system is in fact, factually more rewarding.

leveling up as a reward when they take rewards from other places and redistribute it, is what he was getting at.

Though i will say leveling up specifically is more rewarding, but many other things are less rewarding.
the rewards from leveling i would say are probably balanced by the complete destruction of having drops from all story instances. Seeing as how some missions have a fair amount of killing, and sometimes even champions, this is probably an overall nerf.

as far as skill unlocks/trait unlocks, they basically make you work harder for the same reward, so leveling overall, skill and trait wise is not more rewarding, its at best the same, but if you consider that previously leveling in the traits situation unlocked more traits for less money, leveling with regard to traits is actually less rewarding.

So while leveling may or may not be more rewarding depending on how you look at it, playing the game is overall less rewarding per time spent, and thats probably the bigger picture.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

But we really are talking 10 minutes into the game. New weapons drop more often now, remember? I had new weapons a couple of minutes later. I’m still not sure that what they would rather have is an issue, because no one is usually thinking that way.

New player in a game, you see what drops. You don’t get your first reward in a game and think I’d rather have X. It comes fast enough anyway.

actually on almost every charachter i played in this game even from head start, i was thinking i would rather have a different weapon. Its statistically unlikely that the weapon they choose to start a player off with, represents his prefered style, and even if it did, the possibility of a new weapon option is more enticing than a slight damage upgrade.

let me think, mesmer starts off with scepter, probably the least loved mesmer weapon
guardian club, definately niche
warrior 1h sword, one of many
ranger longbow, i personally prefer sword, axes, greatsword

yeah just about every charachter i had, if i had a choice between a different weapon i would have picked it, and that is going back to beta weekend events.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

But we really are talking 10 minutes into the game. New weapons drop more often now, remember? I had new weapons a couple of minutes later. I’m still not sure that what they would rather have is an issue, because no one is usually thinking that way.

New player in a game, you see what drops. You don’t get your first reward in a game and think I’d rather have X. It comes fast enough anyway.

actually on almost every charachter i played in this game even from head start, i was thinking i would rather have a different weapon. Its statistically unlikely that the weapon they choose to start a player off with, represents his prefered style, and even if it did, the possibility of a new weapon option is more enticing than a slight damage upgrade.

let me think, mesmer starts off with scepter, probably the least loved mesmer weapon
guardian club, definately niche
warrior 1h sword, one of many
ranger longbow, i personally prefer sword, axes, greatsword

yeah just about every charachter i had, if i had a choice between a different weapon i would have picked it, and that is going back to beta weekend events.

Not what I was saying. The first time you ever played this game, if you said that I’d call you a statistical minority. However, now, you get those other weapons much faster than you used to, or at least I did. Since the drops have been changed so you get more profession appropriate drops, you will much more likely have a weapon you want sooner than later.

In fact, in the old version all you got was an offhand, not a main hand weapon, so you still had to use the same weapon.

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

But we really are talking 10 minutes into the game. New weapons drop more often now, remember? I had new weapons a couple of minutes later. I’m still not sure that what they would rather have is an issue, because no one is usually thinking that way.

New player in a game, you see what drops. You don’t get your first reward in a game and think I’d rather have X. It comes fast enough anyway.

actually on almost every charachter i played in this game even from head start, i was thinking i would rather have a different weapon. Its statistically unlikely that the weapon they choose to start a player off with, represents his prefered style, and even if it did, the possibility of a new weapon option is more enticing than a slight damage upgrade.

let me think, mesmer starts off with scepter, probably the least loved mesmer weapon
guardian club, definately niche
warrior 1h sword, one of many
ranger longbow, i personally prefer sword, axes, greatsword

yeah just about every charachter i had, if i had a choice between a different weapon i would have picked it, and that is going back to beta weekend events.

Not what I was saying. The first time you ever played this game, if you said that I’d call you a statistical minority. However, now, you get those other weapons much faster than you used to, or at least I did. Since the drops have been changed so you get more profession appropriate drops, you will much more likely have a weapon you want sooner than later.

In fact, in the old version all you got was an offhand, not a main hand weapon, so you still had to use the same weapon.

im not a statistical minority
first you have to realize, in this game, weapons often tied to playstyle
second you have to realize most classes have like at least 5 different weapons.(weaponskill sets)
If every weapon is liked equally, the chances you gave someone the weapon they liked is at best 1/5 or lower (barring ele and engineer)

statistically speaking most people will want a different weapon.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

But we really are talking 10 minutes into the game. New weapons drop more often now, remember? I had new weapons a couple of minutes later. I’m still not sure that what they would rather have is an issue, because no one is usually thinking that way.

New player in a game, you see what drops. You don’t get your first reward in a game and think I’d rather have X. It comes fast enough anyway.

actually on almost every charachter i played in this game even from head start, i was thinking i would rather have a different weapon. Its statistically unlikely that the weapon they choose to start a player off with, represents his prefered style, and even if it did, the possibility of a new weapon option is more enticing than a slight damage upgrade.

let me think, mesmer starts off with scepter, probably the least loved mesmer weapon
guardian club, definately niche
warrior 1h sword, one of many
ranger longbow, i personally prefer sword, axes, greatsword

yeah just about every charachter i had, if i had a choice between a different weapon i would have picked it, and that is going back to beta weekend events.

Not what I was saying. The first time you ever played this game, if you said that I’d call you a statistical minority. However, now, you get those other weapons much faster than you used to, or at least I did. Since the drops have been changed so you get more profession appropriate drops, you will much more likely have a weapon you want sooner than later.

In fact, in the old version all you got was an offhand, not a main hand weapon, so you still had to use the same weapon.

im not a statistical minority
first you have to realize, in this game, weapons often tied to playstyle
second you have to realize most classes have like at least 5 different weapons.(weaponskill sets)
If every weapon is liked equally, the chances you gave someone the weapon they liked is at best 1/5 or lower (barring ele and engineer)

statistically speaking most people will want a different weapon.

We’re talking about first time players here. Since no one would know the play style of any weapon starting up,. wanting a different weapon on your first play through would likely make you a statistical minority.

I’m pretty sure most people don’t go into a game and say I want different weapons until they tried the first weapon. Currently they can only try a single skill of the first weapon. It’s not until the get that reward that the second skill even unlocks.

You have to be very particularly want a different weapon in a game you just started without even knowing that the weapon you have does.

I like the new leveling system, never seen this pole before. add me to like new leveling changes.

Kamui.4038:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rogue.7856:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Highlord.7158:

So. Who thought these changes were a good idea, and why are they still employed?

I think they’re compelling as an idea. I think the execution . . . leaves a lot to be desired.

The whole idea of reusing already existing content and turning it into a reward isn’t a reward at all. It’s a punishment if anything, and it’s creating the very grind that they were trying to innovate out of their game from the beginning.

. . . what, exactly, are you on about?

Exactly what he said. Imagine walking into someone’s house and gift-wrapping their toaster and then giving it back to them and saying “happy birthday!”

I’m sorry, toasters? Where did toasters come into this? Or are we talking about Cylons now, or Soong androids . . .

Oh, right, it’s a metaphor. Which is really bad to cover what’s been done, but who really cares anyway?

ipan.4356:

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Yeah. Just like in Legend Of Mana. You choose what weapon you want to start with, and you have a little preview of what it looks like when you are creating your character.

Sokia.3710:

ipan.4356:

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Yeah. Just like in Legend Of Mana. You choose what weapon you want to start with, and you have a little preview of what it looks like when you are creating your character.

I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their own weapon, certainly for a first character anyway.

A developer can better control the experience balancing the starting area for a single weapon, rather than having to wonder if every weapon has the same rough peformance, which isn’t always the case.

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

ipan.4356:

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Yeah. Just like in Legend Of Mana. You choose what weapon you want to start with, and you have a little preview of what it looks like when you are creating your character.

I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their own weapon, certainly for a first character anyway.

A developer can better control the experience balancing the starting area for a single weapon, rather than having to wonder if every weapon has the same rough peformance, which isn’t always the case.

I’m going to have to disagree with you Vayne. I think choosing the weapon is an important choice, and too important to not give the player. Especially when, I believe, you can still purchase basic white weapons (inside the cities) cheaply to experiment with.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

ipan.4356:

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Yeah. Just like in Legend Of Mana. You choose what weapon you want to start with, and you have a little preview of what it looks like when you are creating your character.

I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their own weapon, certainly for a first character anyway.

A developer can better control the experience balancing the starting area for a single weapon, rather than having to wonder if every weapon has the same rough peformance, which isn’t always the case.

I’m going to have to disagree with you Vayne. I think choosing the weapon is an important choice, and too important to not give the player. Especially when, I believe, you can still purchase basic white weapons (inside the cities) cheaply to experiment with.

Yep, like I said, I have mixed feelings. But a first time player is going to have this idea Ranger = bow. He might never think of anything else. Necro = staff. Same thing. By starting people with kittenual weapon Anet is telling them directly that this is not going to be like every other game you play.

Vayne.8563:

I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their own weapon, certainly for a first character anyway.

A developer can better control the experience balancing the starting area for a single weapon, rather than having to wonder if every weapon has the same rough peformance, which isn’t always the case.

The starter instance is unlosable now, and the extremely low level zones are so laughably easy compared to how they used to be, that any random weapon now would will be easier than using the most efficient weapon during the launch of the game.

Vayne.8563:

kittenual weapon

I don’t know what it is but I want one!

Ah, it just came to me what you must have actually typed.

Sokia.3710:

The starter instance is unlosable now, and the extremely low level zones are so laughably easy compared to how they used to be, that any random weapon now would will be easier than using the most efficient weapon during the launch of the game.

Wasn ‘t the starting instance always unlosable? Because I remember trying to fail it during BWE3 and couldn’t.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

kittenual weapon

I don’t know what it is but I want one!

That’s exactly what we need. A Charr with a kitty backpack and a mini-Rytlock brandishing a cat at his enemies.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wasn ‘t the starting instance always unlosable? Because I remember trying to fail it during BWE3 and couldn’t.

I have no idea. I was just saying that the “balance” argument for not letting players choose weapons falls a bit flat when you consider that almost every enemy for the first four levels are complete pushovers. It’s not like you are going to enter the game and run into Champion Bandit Lieutenant anymore. In which case, it didn’t matter if you had a longbow or an axe, because you were still going to die anyway.

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wasn ‘t the starting instance always unlosable? Because I remember trying to fail it during BWE3 and couldn’t.

I have no idea.

I’m sorry.

Stop saying that and get an idea. You have no idea how infuriating it is when you say something which is wrong and then claim to not have tested it. So far I’ve counted two out of three. You have to be better than that.

That out of the way . . .

I was just saying that the “balance” argument for not letting players choose weapons falls a bit flat when you consider that almost every enemy for the first four levels are complete pushovers. It’s not like you are going to enter the game and run into Champion Bandit Lieutenant anymore. In which case, it didn’t matter if you had a longbow or an axe, because you were still going to die anyway.

It falls flatter when you remember you can buy weapons in the cities from weaponsmiths who are still there. So it’s only a temporary setback not having a weapon you like . . . or wanting to try something different.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wasn ‘t the starting instance always unlosable? Because I remember trying to fail it during BWE3 and couldn’t.

I have no idea.

I’m sorry.

Stop saying that and get an idea. You have no idea how infuriating it is when you say something which is wrong and then claim to not have tested it.

How in the flying kitten am I supposed to test whether the starter instance has always been impossible to lose? Is Arenanet planning to give me access to every patch since BWE?

Do you have any idea how dumb you just sounded for insulting me for not testing something which is physically impossible for me to test?

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wasn ‘t the starting instance always unlosable? Because I remember trying to fail it during BWE3 and couldn’t.

I have no idea.

I’m sorry.

Stop saying that and get an idea. You have no idea how infuriating it is when you say something which is wrong and then claim to not have tested it.

How in the flying kitten am I supposed to test whether the starter instance has always been impossible to lose? Is Arenanet planning to give me access to every patch since BWE?

Do you have any idea how dumb you just sounded for insulting me for not testing something which is physically impossible for me to test?

No but I did point out in several threads that this was the case.

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wasn ‘t the starting instance always unlosable? Because I remember trying to fail it during BWE3 and couldn’t.

I have no idea.

I’m sorry.

Stop saying that and get an idea. You have no idea how infuriating it is when you say something which is wrong and then claim to not have tested it.

How in the flying kitten am I supposed to test whether the starter instance has always been impossible to lose? Is Arenanet planning to give me access to every patch since BWE?

Do you have any idea how dumb you just sounded for insulting me for not testing something which is physically impossible for me to test?

One, that’s not my problem, I’m not the one making assertions about changes which aren’t changes at all. You are.

Two, the other thing I caught you going on about without testing you acknowledged you didn’t test it and still said it anyway. I, personally, caught one of the three things you said which were demonstrably untrue . . . within ten minutes of play, easily. Not even on a new character, just by going to a starter zone and poking around. You chose not to do the research, and now I’m telling you that’s unacceptable.

Lastly, that wasn’t an insult. It wasn’t even me being condescending, no matter what you believe. When I insult you, or turn condescending you will know, because there will be no misinterpreting it as polite.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

ipan.4356:

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Yeah. Just like in Legend Of Mana. You choose what weapon you want to start with, and you have a little preview of what it looks like when you are creating your character.

I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their own weapon, certainly for a first character anyway.

A developer can better control the experience balancing the starting area for a single weapon, rather than having to wonder if every weapon has the same rough peformance, which isn’t always the case.

I’m going to have to disagree with you Vayne. I think choosing the weapon is an important choice, and too important to not give the player. Especially when, I believe, you can still purchase basic white weapons (inside the cities) cheaply to experiment with.

Gotta agree with Tobias here.

Weapon choice can be entirely too integral to a character concept to not be given to the player.

In my experience players frequently, if not usually, include the visual/ideal of a given weapon during the conceptualization phase of character creation.

“I wanna play a dwarf with a big-ole axe”
“Totally gonna play a ranger with a bow”
etc.

Ashen.2907:

“I wanna play a dwarf with a big-ole axe”
“Totally gonna play a ranger with a bow”
etc.

I always played the elf with the staff and bow. (At least in 3.5 D&D – elves getting bow proficiency for free meant “when I run out of magic missiles you will start eating pointy sticks”).

The new system is suffocating and the reward often isn’t even a miniscule of additional breathing room, it’s smoke and mirrors rewards or giving you a crumb of the player experience they decided to hide behind level locks.

If reactions to these changes aren’t a litmus test between fan and blind devotee, I don’t know what would be.

The mental acrobatics needed to defend the system is amazing, I will give it that.

I also have to admit I have trouble believing the comments on how this was tested. They haven’t been able to manage a Public Test Realm in two years, exactly how, with whom and when did they manage to test a new system like this? If it is to be believed, then we must have to believe as well that they’ve actually tested most of the flawed or horrible changes to the game in the last year with secret beta testers and still managed to step in it at every possible opportunity?

As far as where it was tested and for whom it was developed, didn’t Collin state a while ago that the NPE was developed for China and was just now being adapted for the West? Now we are supposed to believe that it had nothing to do with China at all and it was just coincidental?

Official word on subjects of controversy have become as insulting to our intelligence as the NPE changes themselves. To say NPE was designed for 5-year-olds would be an insult to today’s tech savvy children.

It’s mind boggling.

Fiontar.4695:

The new system is suffocating and the reward often isn’t even a miniscule of additional breathing room, it’s smoke and mirrors rewards or giving you a crumb of the player experience they decided to hide behind level locks.

If reactions to these changes aren’t a litmus test between fan and blind devotee, I don’t know what would be.

The mental acrobatics needed to defend the system is amazing, I will give it that.

I also have to admit I have trouble believing the comments on how this was tested. They haven’t been able to manage a Public Test Realm in two years, exactly how, with whom and when did they manage to test a new system like this? If it is to be believed, then we must have to believe as well that they’ve actually tested most of the flawed or horrible changes to the game in the last year with secret beta testers and still managed to step in it at every possible opportunity?

As far as where it was tested and for whom it was developed, didn’t Collin state a while ago that the NPE was developed for China and was just now being adapted for the West? Now we are supposed to believe that it had nothing to do with China at all and it was just coincidental?

Official word on subjects of controversy have become as insulting to our intelligence as the NPE changes themselves. To say NPE was designed for 5-year-olds would be an insult to today’s tech savvy children.

It’s mind boggling.

Every word, very well said… Everyone needs to read this and understand it!

I agree, being able to choose is best. Goes back to my D&D days (2nd ed. for the win!). I wanted to play a wizard with a sword. Standard rules = no sword for you! Fortunately, thanks to the Complete Wizard’s Handbook rules supplement and a cool Dungeon Master, I got to play a wizard with a sword. Couldn’t hit a kitten thing with it, with a wizard’s THAC0, but it was cool. My favorite D&D character of all time.

Fiontar.4695:

The new system is suffocating and the reward often isn’t even a miniscule of additional breathing room, it’s smoke and mirrors rewards or giving you a crumb of the player experience they decided to hide behind level locks.

If reactions to these changes aren’t a litmus test between fan and blind devotee, I don’t know what would be.

The mental acrobatics needed to defend the system is amazing, I will give it that.

I’m still slowly working through it, after starting my new ranger late last night. Hopefully with some days off coming up I can do more than just poke at some stuff and get past level 9. So far, it’s not been too bad, especially once remembering I can get weapons from Hoelbrak if I really need them.

Also, new appreciation for the raven as a pet. Might have to start using it.

BTW, to Anet, I’m still trudging through a new character so I can speak with first hand knowledge as to the impacts on game play and character progression. I really hope you don’t take my blip in your metrics as evidence of how well your changes are working. It has been far from enjoyable so far and more akin to surveying the scene of a mass catastrophe than something done for enjoyment.

Aside from some ui changes I appreciate, the only thing I’ve liked so far is the additional challenge level of doing content in Kessex Hills with a progression kitten character. However, I have to believe the jump in difficulty, in stark contrast to starter zone kiddy land, sends a very mixed message as to who your changes are meant to attract to the game.

Fiontar.4695:

Aside from some ui changes I appreciate, the only thing I’ve liked so far is the additional challenge level of doing content in Kessex Hills with a progression kitten character. However, I have to believe the jump in difficulty, in stark contrast to starter zone kiddy land, sends a very mixed message as to who your changes are meant to attract to the game.

I found Kessex a tough nut to crack back when things started – only because it seemed everyone was farming the then-unbalanced bridge event and I couldn’t really rely on help anywhere else. It got better after I finished Gendarren.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fiontar.4695:

The new system is suffocating and the reward often isn’t even a miniscule of additional breathing room, it’s smoke and mirrors rewards or giving you a crumb of the player experience they decided to hide behind level locks.

If reactions to these changes aren’t a litmus test between fan and blind devotee, I don’t know what would be.

The mental acrobatics needed to defend the system is amazing, I will give it that.

I’m still slowly working through it, after starting my new ranger late last night. Hopefully with some days off coming up I can do more than just poke at some stuff and get past level 9. So far, it’s not been too bad, especially once remembering I can get weapons from Hoelbrak if I really need them.

Also, new appreciation for the raven as a pet. Might have to start using it.

I have to admit that I had a moment of weakness and level from 9-14 via crafting because the inability to do Skill Points was driving me crazy. It addressed that one annoyance, but the additional five levels did little to make the play experience any better or make my character feel less kitten.

I also have a ranger and bought additional weapons, but I was actually surprised how much I missed unlocking weapon skills the old way. The further delay of weapon swapping and not having any control of my pet for several levels also seemed like annoyance for annoyance sake.

Well, being more engrossed in doing dungeons right now and things for my main character, I’m not likely to get any further tonight until WAY later.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

See, this is my problem. People comment about the new patch without actually having tried the new patch. Here’s the reward for finishing the tutorial in the new patch, with the new guardian I just made to test it out.

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said. I know you don’t like that patch, but you really shouldn’t be talking about it unless you’ve tried it. That’s my objection to a lot of the stuff people having been saying. Much of it is demonstrably untrue.

Arenanet still hasn’t given me my free character slot so I can test out stuff like this without having to delete one of my existing characters.

Just sayin’

Then maybe you should refrain from talking about things easily disproven. Like the choice of weapon reward?

And while this wasn’t you, the person who was talking about “no more juveniles out in the starter area” . . . I found one in fifteen seconds in Wayfarer Foothills.

The list goes on of things which were talked about being locked or unavailble which could be proven false within an hour of starting a new character.

And there you have it, the amount of missinformation these people started spreading really begs a question what exactly is their goal.

or do they think they provide sime kind of feedback, but first rule of feedback would, i guess, be “know whadda hell youre talking about”, as what they provide is pretty much – just meaningless spam

Found juvenile in caledon forest (jaguar?) in lvl 7 area.

MikaHR.1978:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

See, this is my problem. People comment about the new patch without actually having tried the new patch. Here’s the reward for finishing the tutorial in the new patch, with the new guardian I just made to test it out.

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said. I know you don’t like that patch, but you really shouldn’t be talking about it unless you’ve tried it. That’s my objection to a lot of the stuff people having been saying. Much of it is demonstrably untrue.

Arenanet still hasn’t given me my free character slot so I can test out stuff like this without having to delete one of my existing characters.

Just sayin’

Then maybe you should refrain from talking about things easily disproven. Like the choice of weapon reward?

And while this wasn’t you, the person who was talking about “no more juveniles out in the starter area” . . . I found one in fifteen seconds in Wayfarer Foothills.

The list goes on of things which were talked about being locked or unavailble which could be proven false within an hour of starting a new character.

And there you have it, the amount of missinformation these people started spreading really begs a question what exactly is their goal.

or do they think they provide sime kind of feedback, but first rule of feedback would, i guess, be “know whadda hell youre talking about”, as what they provide is pretty much – just meaningless spam

Found juvenile in caledon forest (jaguar?) in lvl 7 area.

Just read the OP… it consist of real issues with key aspects of the game. If you choose to be blind, so be it.

Rogue.7856:

Just read the OP… it consist of real issues with key aspects of the game. If you choose to be blind, so be it.

I’m seeing less issues and a lot of opinionated statements, in the original post anyway. I know what your issues are from having read the rest of the topic but the OP? You have some very strong opinions and you have passionate senses of what you don’t like.

But it’s all summed up:

“I don’t like the NPE and would like a reversion”.

Its not an opinion. The fact is, the reward system is nothing short of rehash and a play on words. There really is no “Reward” from the experience other than gating content that was accessible for 2 years. The “New” experience is an annoyance at best, and an insult at worst.

This is what they did for chinese gw2 and they had so many bad feedbacks from former NA EU gw2 chinese players, i thought only the chinese gw2 company wouldn’t care about player feedback, but it apparently, anet doesnt care either.

Rogue.7856:

Its not an opinion. The fact is, the reward system is nothing short of rehash and a play on words. There really is no “Reward” from the experience other than gating content that was accessible for 2 years. The “New” experience is an annoyance at best, and an insult at worst.

Yes, yes it is.

The “New” experience is an annoyance at best, and an insult at worst.

That is your opinion.

My opinion on the NPE’s feeling? I have to keep playing on it sometime later but so far it’s not been all that different than my first trek through the game short of the weapon unlocks. I’m seeming to level a little faster as I go through things, but . . . I have not yet felt hamstrung or held back any more than I did before when starting fresh.

So it’s a guarded “meh” from me.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rogue.7856:

Its not an opinion. The fact is, the reward system is nothing short of rehash and a play on words. There really is no “Reward” from the experience other than gating content that was accessible for 2 years. The “New” experience is an annoyance at best, and an insult at worst.

Yes, yes it is.

The “New” experience is an annoyance at best, and an insult at worst.

That is your opinion.

My opinion on the NPE’s feeling? I have to keep playing on it sometime later but so far it’s not been all that different than my first trek through the game short of the weapon unlocks. I’m seeming to level a little faster as I go through things, but . . . I have not yet felt hamstrung or held back any more than I did before when starting fresh.

So it’s a guarded “meh” from me.

Way to snip what you want from what I said.

Rogue.7856:

Its not an opinion. The fact is, the reward system is nothing short of rehash and a play on words. There really is no “Reward” from the experience other than gating content that was accessible for 2 years. The “New” experience is an annoyance at best, and an insult at worst.

Read the bold text…