Guild Wars 2

Hazram.9271:

Just a little semi-off-topic question:

Is there any way to read your total amount of effective magic find in game, besides making the addition yourself?

No I don’t believe there is, it’s kind of a hidden stat for some reason.

munkiman.3068:

MF has always been a long term investment in just about every game that has it. A sample size of 1000 is hardly enough to see a noticeable change in revenue. If you were to run as maxed as possible, gaining 1 exotic for 4 hours worth of play time as opposed to half (say 1 every 8hrs.) that would seem to be a more likely way to gauge MF and that’s basically what i’m seeing for the most part. We are talking very small percentages here, doubling or even tripling those numbers only adds up over time. Playing diversely in this game is where it’s at, not sticking to an area running the same things over and over.

The problem with playing the game diversely to collect data is that you suddenly get a lot more noise affecting your results. Maybe some areas drop different loot than others? Some parts of the game drop different loot than others? The reason for sticking to one place and running the same things is for the sake of the experiment; to reduce the amount of other variables influencing the outcome

Karina.9871:

munkiman.3068:

MF has always been a long term investment in just about every game that has it. A sample size of 1000 is hardly enough to see a noticeable change in revenue. If you were to run as maxed as possible, gaining 1 exotic for 4 hours worth of play time as opposed to half (say 1 every 8hrs.) that would seem to be a more likely way to gauge MF and that’s basically what i’m seeing for the most part. We are talking very small percentages here, doubling or even tripling those numbers only adds up over time. Playing diversely in this game is where it’s at, not sticking to an area running the same things over and over.

The problem with playing the game diversely to collect data is that you suddenly get a lot more noise affecting your results. Maybe some areas drop different loot than others? Some parts of the game drop different loot than others? The reason for sticking to one place and running the same things is for the sake of the experiment; to reduce the amount of other variables influencing the outcome

This is where you would need a much larger sample size to accurately see what the effects of MF actually are. The very low percentage of your level 5 drop rate could only really be measured over a much larger sample size, over a more diverse range then it currently is (noise included). One would assume, however inaccurately, that your level 3 drop rate would increase over a smaller sample size, but that really wouldn’t be the case either. I would even venture to say that 1 in 10 would drop anything more than a white item and that would not change one bit with 1000 percent magic find. I’ve never seen that in other games that include MF as an option. If a mob has a zero percent change of dropping X, then it obviously wouldn’t matter what gear you ran with.

You would actually be better off going with how much you earn over a week, with or without magic gear by treating everything as vendor trash and seeing what you actually earn between the 2 than trying to gauge it based on setting level items and comparing them. That’s just not how MF works when comparing it with drop rate increase, it’s always more about the long term quality of items over a fairly average diversity of gameplay.

I’m also pretty sure MF does not affect gathering as it is seems it’s entirely based on the tool you use. So you can for sure toss all that data out.

I’ve somehow managed to gather a great deal of dyes along with rare and exotic stuff just running around doing events and hearts with MF gear (not even maxed out or with boosters), even in the lower level zones.

I’m not saying your data is wrong, quite the opposite, it’s exactly what i would expect given how i’ve seen MF work overall.

Actually, not hard and fast data, but, my wife and i play about equal amounts. Neither of us are focused on making money or even on getting uber loot drops. We both play the same content mostly, I run with MF gear and she runs without (beyond omnom bars). Over the last month, we’ve both maxed out 2 crafting professions and I’ve managed to earn almost quadruple the amount of cash (including the sale of several exotic weapons neither of us wanted or needed). It’s a gauge that has a lot of noise in it (since she does do differently things than I on occasion) however, before i started running MF gear neither of us could ever really break the 5g level, now i have 25g and she is hovering around 6g. I’m not saying it’s a perfect comparison, but it does give a person looking for some sort of data a good gauge of the benefits of MF gear over a much more diverse range with a much larger sample size.

munkiman.3068:

You would actually be better off going with how much you earn over a week, with or without magic gear by treating everything as vendor trash and seeing what you actually earn between the 2 than trying to gauge it based on setting level items and comparing them. That’s just not how MF works when comparing it with drop rate increase, it’s always more about the long term quality of items over a fairly average diversity of gameplay.

That seems to be a good idea. So you would recommend recording data over a whole range of playing options, whatever I might be doing at the time… and recording it at vendor value? It might need a bit more policing than that, wouldn’t it?
I mean, the loot I get in Orr would naturally be of higher value than the loot I’d get in like, the Plains of Ashford (if I interpret correctly what you’re saying about “diversity of gameplay”). So I’d have to make sure I had exactly the same number of observations from different locations with the two levels of magic find. It does make it a bit more complicated…

You could just go on a time basis, spend 2 hours in a level (whatever zone) then 2 in another and so on, then just “treat” everything as vendor trash and see what you come up with. I would expect to find a fairly measurable increase in money earned (based on quality of the items). Since it’s mostly about quality, and vendors always seem to pay more for better quality, the varying degrees of level is tossed as is the pure number of mobs killed. You’d be basically using time and vendor price as your stable form of measure.

If you didn’t want to be managing time, going by random play in whichever thing strikes your fancy, I would still expect and increase in earning relative to what you might have earned without MF gear, just in general. You could also find a buddy and run one with and one without, doing the same stuff over a weeks time (not buying or selling anything, but to the vendors or with karma).

As and example, I did a level 1-15 zone and still managed to earn 1g, as opposed to my wife that earned a little less than 50s. Of course that included events and heart rewards…

Actually we need bots to test magic find efficiency (no don’t hurt me I’m kidding :p)

Okay, that does sound like it would work, and probably an easier measure that comparing groups of drops. But I’ll probably measure both, because although vendor value does provide a means of measuring drop quality, it doesn’t show anything about the proportions of goods that lead to that increased quality (i.e. is it that you got more rares? more greens? more blues? all three? and by how much?)

Thanks for the great idea though

Early on it had a significant benefit, getting 50 or so MF used to make it rain yellow items, then overnight it went from great to bad.

Well after all this feedback… I’m coming to realize that this study would take a lot of work to get any conclusive evidence (if indeed the MF bonus is like 1-2%)… so I’m not sure I can really be bothered xD
My personal view: MF is not really worth it. Some might like it, but I’d rather go for more power/more survivability.
I think I’ll put my effort into more interesting studies (like the player experience/happiness studies I’ve done in the past) :P

I’ve only briefly read the thread, though excluding solo play, this is how I farm:

Farm the northern events in Cursed Shore with a full group. Assist mobs (AOE counts), be sure to hit them at least twice. Get loot for nearly every mob.

It’s nothing to brag about, but I looted 24 rares (43 Globs) in 6 hours, that’s excluding materials and coin. I’m sure it could be lower or higher, no argument there. I never hit DR. There was quite a bit of downtime from events respawning and being AFK often.

Groups are worth it, and more people are taking notice of this.

We need to test this well. I spent 20g on exotic MF gear/runes/jewelry on my main then did the same for my alt. I need to know exactly how upset I should be.

you shouldn’t need a sample size bigger than 1000 if magic find is a % like the stat says it is. 200% magic find should get you 2x more items, and 1000 is statistically significant enough to determine that – by comparison, most presidential polls barely have 1000 respondents

Havana.8625:

We need to test this well. I spent 20g on exotic MF gear/runes/jewelry on my main then did the same for my alt. I need to know exactly how upset I should be.

As i said earlier, MF is a long term investment. The percentage increase is very minimal, but if you take the plan fact that you will ultimately get a high cost exotic (for example) in a shorter span of time over someone that didn’t use MF gear, it would pay off immediately from that point on.

As an example, we zerged through Frostgorge last night, at the end my wife and I compared loot drops (she only runs MF with omnom) and I received 2 more rares than she did and about 40 extra silver (although that’s not tied to MF) but the sale of the rares netted me about a gold more than she made. That’s not included the corrupted lodestone I also looted. It’s a small sample, but we often compare and ALMOST every time i earn more and find more rare and/or exotics than her.

CrazyGoNuts.9536:

you shouldn’t need a sample size bigger than 1000 if magic find is a % like the stat says it is. 200% magic find should get you 2x more items, and 1000 is statistically significant enough to determine that – by comparison, most presidential polls barely have 1000 respondents

2x’s a %.05 drop rate isn’t very significant. This greatly depends on a varying array of drop rates as well, some could be as high as .1 on items that would show a significant improvement to earnings. I don’t have any actual stats to base a mathematical theory for GW2, but i can take an overall real play time example and get a feeling for the numbers. GW2 isn’t really any different in the feel, for MF gear than any other game i’ve played.

munkiman.3068:

CrazyGoNuts.9536:

you shouldn’t need a sample size bigger than 1000 if magic find is a % like the stat says it is. 200% magic find should get you 2x more items, and 1000 is statistically significant enough to determine that – by comparison, most presidential polls barely have 1000 respondents

2x’s a %.05 drop rate isn’t very significant. This greatly depends on a varying array of drop rates as well, some could be as high as .1 on items that would show a significant improvement to earnings. I don’t have any actual stats to base a mathematical theory for GW2, but i can take an overall real play time example and get a feeling for the numbers. GW2 isn’t really any different in the feel, for MF gear than any other game i’ve played.

Well if you’re saying that MF only affects the rare or exotic drop rate, then I would agree with you – but is that what it is? I was under the impression it should affect all drop rates, in which case the test is valid because he got a decent number of blue / green quality items.

If a certain mob type has a loot table that states it can either drop a porous bone, a green weapon or a lodestone, that’s going to be affected by MF as well as the quality of said green weapon (i.e. a major rune vs a minor one), if %50 of the time it’s just a porous bone that’s not going to change with MF very much in your favor, nor will that %.05 it might drop a lodestone. Obliviously, that’s just an example. This is why i suggested taking vendor value as your indicator. Sure you might get 3 greens with or without MF, but the quality (vendor value, rune, sigil, etc) would really be more relevant since each mob only drops a certain set of loot. If a hog only drops red meat %50 of the time, MF isn’t going to do anything for that rate.

One looks at MF as if you’d actually get more specific good items (say rares or exotics) but given each mob has a certain loot table which need to be taken in account as well, the chance is even less than the stated MF bonus, much less. Again which is why i said a 1000 kill sample based on how many greens or blues or yellows, etc. is hardly an indicator. She (i believe) was looking at type of drop neglecting entirely quality of said drop.

Since you start wearing MF at level 80 and not before, and since dungeons like AC and HotW are not level 80, I really don’t see the problem. At least until Arah.
Anyway, being a player who wears full MF gear, I cuncur with the people saying that MF is a statistic that shouldn’t be AT ALL in the game. I feel compelled to wear it if I want to make some money (because I hate farming for hours and the less I can farm, the better. Also, the economy is calibrated on MF now) even if I DO NOT LIKE wearing it at all, it spoils my fun by, de facto, removing me the choice on how to spec my character.
I don’t think they will ever remove it from the game, but I sincerely hope that they will.