Guild Wars 2

Couldnt have said it better.

Something that people dont realize is; criticism is not a bad thing, i fact when its done in a fashion thakittens civilized and constructive way it can lead to amazing results.

Here most people tend to mix the good criticism with frustrations so they tend to come out nasty, some others dont even include suggestions on how to fix the problem. For the most part at some point the readers get tired of it and attck every criticism as it were a negative one.

Though your suggestions could use more indepths, i believe they offer a good chance for discussion. Bumped the thread so that Anet sees it.

Not once did I say that I want Guild Wars 2 to be another gear grind MMO. I want Guild Wars 2 to be what it was months ago, just improved upon. On paper the game is about exploration, even-level of strength and skill-based combat. In reality, it’s a zerg-fest with no clear goal. How can you deny that? Is the difference between servers so great that I’m playing a completely different game from you? Because I’ve been witness to these things for months.

It’s incredibly hard not to get frustrated when people continue to dismiss my points just because. If you were happy with the game’s direction you’d have told me straight to my face that GW2 is about erasing months of content and playing 2 days a month. What are you exploring after Map Completion is done? The game doesn’t give you an incentive to go back to less-populated zones. I can go back there if I wish, but the world in Guild Wars 2 is currently a campaign mode – you need to beat it only once to see everything.

I think we all want the game to improve in the end, no? Guild Wars 2 hasn’t dealt with gear grinding, it just removed the stat requirement. It’s still the same “kill 10000 rats” experience once you it. The future of the game was never updated – that’s people’s gripe with the Living Story. RNG is made to complement the reward system, not define it -that’s the problem here. Too much gambling. Too much. The list goes on. To summarize…

Guild Wars 2 has no focus and so people don’t commit. No regular players = no community. There, my entire thread in one sentence.

Insignya.8625:

What’s the point of PvE Content currently? I’m not talking about the people who haven’t completed their personal story yet or are still prancing around each zone studying butterflies. I’m talking about those who have reached the end game and have some goal in mind. It’s to get a good skin – either a legendary or something along the lines of Volcanus or Infinite Light.

The reason you farm world events is to get gold and mats to get better skins. How, how is that not different from a gear grind, tell me. These arguments are void – legendaries aren’t arbitrary, sure, but what else is there for us to work towards? Here, I’ll show you the options for endgame:

1) Grind WvW Ranks
2) Grind PvP Ranks
3) Grind a legendary
4) Grind any other skin
5) Grind achievements
6) Gamble in the Forge (is that even an activity?)

Don’t call guild missions endgame, because they were fun when they were fresh. Now they’re boring, repetitive and everyone knows how to do each one. So you’re either “having fun”, which is basically saying there’s no end game, or you do the above activities. So what if you don’t need to spend hours and hours grinding – if this is Arena.NET’s idea of an end game, then for committed people that’s the end game.

So I’ll ask again: assuming you are not a person living with the delusion that people play MMOs because they don’t have Skype, how is the current state of Guild Wars 2’s end game a different mechanic from gear grinding?

The reason why I feel it is different (yes, if you bring it down to semantics it’s the same thing), is that there is no requirement for me to only dedicate my time to this in order to stay in the game.

With vertical gear progression, if you fancy doing something else for a while, maybe just wasting time roaming Kessex Hills for example, or if you go and give WvW or sPvP a go, you come back a couple of weeks later to find you’re well behind the mark. Things have well and truly left you behind. The way I define the grind would be something I have no choice but to do to stay current within the game.

With the way GW2 stands at the moment, what I do is very much my choice. Yes, if I choose to go after a legendary, of course I’ll have to grind out certain achievements. But that is very much a choice and by not having a legendary I don’t feel as though I’m missing out on some aspect of gameplay.

Does that make sense to you?

Thank you OP for this very well put together post!
You stated in very clear terms most of the important issues I am also worried about.
And more than anything you are right about the fact that people who could understand you have moved on …
My original guild left, my new guild was built on its ruins, but my co-leader and best friend in-game got so tired of the weak content and bad long term decisions that he started whining about the game, mindlessly. On the contrary I defend the game because I strongly believe in its core mechanics. In fact, I am only still playing because I want to improve my skills even further (there is so much room for this!) and be ready for actual content, when it comes. But not everybody can see for themselves how the core design of the game is so great … now my friend and I are in conflict because he got so upset by the game that he cannot come online without a strong lurking frustration. I can control this feeling for myself, but for how long?
Now the community is astonishingly locked in its blindness. It’s getting too late!
I don’t know if I will be prepared to pay for an extension at this point …

Edit: I forgot to mention that of course casuals will buy the expansion “Hey look more fun content over there!” but in the end the game will not shine. It will not be remembered. I don’t know if this is a concern to developpers, maybe it does not matter, maybe they will make money regardless and sell millions of gw3 copies anyway … but somehow I am convinced that the people who designed gw1 in the first place had higher values and a more long-term view. Where are these people??

AntiGw.9367:

fellyn.5083:

AntiGw.9367:

Insignya.8625:

The reward chances are broken, I don’t think proof is needed here. For reference point, I’ve committed close to 2000 hours in Guild Wars 2 and have never had an item worth more than 5 gold.

Nobody ever promised that you’d get a precursor in less than 500 hours, 2000 hours, 4000 hours and so on.

You conceived an arbitrary expectation for no reason whatsoever, and now rant because it wasn’t fulfilled.

How long do you propose people play before they’re “worthy” in your eyes, of a reward? Because after investing 2000 hours into something and not having anything to show for it most people are going to quit and tell everyone who will listen to avoid the game.

I still don’t get why you’re defending such a bad game mechanic as rng.

Legendaries and similar skins are supposed to be rare, select few people are supposed to have them.

If you insist on arbitrary numbers, let’s do some arbitrary math with your 2000-hour precursors. A population of 2.000.000 players that plays on average only two hours per day, after a year of farming will generate over 700.000 precursors. With 20 precursor models, that’s 35.000 precursors of each type, after only one year.

If you don’t understand how “unrare” that is, consider that TP currently shows about 10.000 Globs of Ectoplasm. Or, there are only about 20-30 each of the cheapest and kittentiest exotic items that are much more easy to come by.

Where has Anet ever said legendary weapons are supposed to be rare and only a select few (ironically, chosen at complete random) deserve to have them?

And if your retort is “you can precursors off the market”. In what way is buying one of the main ingredients for such admittedly rare weapons that only a few deserve off the market like any other common piece of junk legendary?

You didn’t answer my question. If a way can be made to get precursor weapons that is fun and challenging, why on earth would you defend RNG over that? Just to keep them rare?

New flash; they aren’t exactly rare anymore. Nor are they the prestige items people like you claim they should be because anyone can buy one if they spend enough real money.

Seems to me that there’s a huge ideological divide between what makes an MMO good or even playable.

Some people say that what other MMOs have done is required to make an MMO playable. But then, there’s a whole lot of gamers out there who won’t TOUCH an MMO, and some of those people not only play Guild Wars 2, but enjoy Guild Wars 2.

Those who want this stuff, refuse to acknowledge that there’s a sizable population of people who DO want something different from what other MMOs offer. This is in spite of the fact that many many people have come out in favor of this on these forums. More all the time.

And many people, of course, have come out with the desire for more challenging content that’s rewarded by increased reward.

Now, I’m not saying one side is right and one is wrong. I’m saying that one side has a bevy of games to choose from and one side has none.

Let’s pretend that there is a mass exodus from this game of players who DON’T like the direction it’s going. There’s also a bunch of people discovering the game for the first time. Why? Because many gamers previously would never touch an MMO because of how bad MMOs have been.

I’ve always seen the potential of the format, but I’ve NEVER found an MMO worth playing for any length of time…until now.

So if I’m not alone, of other people are in my boat, what makes those who want change think that it’s in any way fair to take away from us the one game we can enjoy as it is?

There are tons of games out there that provide challenge and reward for all your “hard work”. You don’t need another one.

Maybe Guild Wars 2 will never have millions of players. That shouldn’t be the one deciding issue on the design factor. Anet advertised and promoted a certain game. A good portion of the playerbase was incensed when ascended gear was released. Many couldn’t be more happy if ascended weapons and armor never made it into the game…or if they do, that they won’t come with a stat increase.

Anet has to make a decision between demographics, because the demographics clearly aren’t co-existing. And from experience I know, that if you give a gamer a finger, they take a hand. Sure the Fractals were challenging content with better rewards…but now those gamers want more. And the more they get, the more disenfranchised will be the people who bought the game as it was originally portrayed.

Anet should make a statement and say what they plan on doing, and eventually they will. No matter what they do at this point, one group of players is going to be very very annoyed.

Vayne.8563:

Everything you just said (too long to quote)

I agree with this.

I was one of those gamers who wouldn’t touch an MMO if you paid me to do it, though there was plenty to attract me, I was always put off by many of the aspects that we have come to associate with MMOs.

But I heard about GW2 and my interest was suddenly piqued. So I am definitely one of those people you are talking about here, and I couldn’t be more glad that GW2 came around.

This is, for those who will judge me an instant “fanboy”, not at all saying there isn’t room to improve or that I have no criticisms of GW2. Just me acknowledging that GW2 caters to a demographic previously disinterested in MMOs, previously cynical of the genre. I’m not saying it’s converted me and I’m heading out to buy every MMO I can find. I’m simply saying that it’s a fantastic step in the evolution of a new kind of game, and it would be a shame to see it become more like the traditional MMOs that we have plenty of simply because people find the concept bewildering.

When I speak out against criticism, it isn’t because I don’t see where criticism is stemming from. The only criticism I really bother arguing against is criticism that refuses to recognise the precarious line that GW2 is treading across the borders of MMOs and SP games. I don’t think we should be pushing it one way or another – it’s filling a huge gap as it is. The reason why we keep comparing it to MMOs like WoW is because there isn’t really another game out there that does what GW2 does or is trying to do, so we aren’t able to make proper comparisons or criticisms.

But don’t interpret that as me saying it can’t improve. There’s no way that this will be a corner of the market filled by ANet alone for long, and GW2 needs to stay competitive within that.

I agree with about half of what the OP has stated. Unfortunately, that’s a higher percentage than what I agree with Arenanet on since launch. I’m too tired to respond to the points, so that will have to wait until tomorrow.

I will say I agree, though, that ANet has been wandering further and further away from the Manifesto and has indeed been falling into the same old MMO design traps. This continues to fuel my main question/concern: What the heck happened to ANet so that the studio barely resembles the studio that created this incredible game? 2013 Arenanet could never have created the GW2 that launched last August. Never, ever.

Fractals did not satisfy anyone apart from grinders.
But there was already quite a lot available to grinders, they were not the problem!

Rewards would be nice, and they do not have to be gear (I dislike gear treadmill as much as anybody):
-cosmetics
-titles
-guild stuff
-housing stuff
-spells and abilities
you get the idea

The core concept of the game if that anyone can do anything, no gating (hello fractals), but what we would like is a way to progress and differentiate ourselves from the rest.
-Grinders have fractals and legendaries to grind for
-Casuals have living story stuff
-Skilled players have … what … arah solo? :/
And guess what are the most rewarding things to do: CoF brainless runs and brainless world bosses!
Do the designers really want to promote brainless play? I am baffled

Edit to mention that I am actually a fanboy: I love the core mechanics and design of the game. Actually I love the idea so much that I want to improve it, I won’t let it down, I won’t let it be wasted by people who do not understand gaming!

Zelyhn.8069:

Fractals did not satisfy anyone apart from grinders.
But there was already quite a lot available to grinders, they were not the problem!

Rewards would be nice, and they do not have to be gear (I dislike gear treadmill as much as anybody):
-cosmetics
-titles
-guild stuff
-housing stuff
-spells and abilities
you get the idea

The core concept of the game if that anyone can do anything, no gating (hello fractals), but what we would like is a way to progress and differentiate ourselves from the rest.
-Grinders have fractals and legendaries to grind for
-Casuals have living story stuff
-Skilled players have … what … arah solo? :/
And guess what are the most rewarding things to do: CoF brainless runs and brainless world bosses!
Do the designers really want to promote brainless play? I am baffled

Edit to mention that I am actually a fanboy: I love the core mechanics and design of the game. Actually I love the idea so much that I want to improve it, I won’t let it down, I won’t let it be wasted by people who do not understand gaming!

I’m not so sure I agree about the Fractal part. I love Fractals, and I’m no grinder. To me, Fractals are the best dungeon in the game…but I’ll never grind them. I’m up to level 20 finally after all this time.

Vayne.8563:

Zelyhn.8069:

Fractals did not satisfy anyone apart from grinders.
But there was already quite a lot available to grinders, they were not the problem!

Rewards would be nice, and they do not have to be gear (I dislike gear treadmill as much as anybody):
-cosmetics
-titles
-guild stuff
-housing stuff
-spells and abilities
you get the idea

The core concept of the game if that anyone can do anything, no gating (hello fractals), but what we would like is a way to progress and differentiate ourselves from the rest.
-Grinders have fractals and legendaries to grind for
-Casuals have living story stuff
-Skilled players have … what … arah solo? :/
And guess what are the most rewarding things to do: CoF brainless runs and brainless world bosses!
Do the designers really want to promote brainless play? I am baffled

Edit to mention that I am actually a fanboy: I love the core mechanics and design of the game. Actually I love the idea so much that I want to improve it, I won’t let it down, I won’t let it be wasted by people who do not understand gaming!

I’m not so sure I agree about the Fractal part. I love Fractals, and I’m no grinder. To me, Fractals are the best dungeon in the game…but I’ll never grind them. I’m up to level 20 finally after all this time.

I agree they are great! Finally some mechanics that are not as boring as in the other dungeons (bar a few). But their rewards? That’s what’s wrong!

Zelyhn.8069:

Vayne.8563:

Zelyhn.8069:

Fractals did not satisfy anyone apart from grinders.
But there was already quite a lot available to grinders, they were not the problem!

Rewards would be nice, and they do not have to be gear (I dislike gear treadmill as much as anybody):
-cosmetics
-titles
-guild stuff
-housing stuff
-spells and abilities
you get the idea

The core concept of the game if that anyone can do anything, no gating (hello fractals), but what we would like is a way to progress and differentiate ourselves from the rest.
-Grinders have fractals and legendaries to grind for
-Casuals have living story stuff
-Skilled players have … what … arah solo? :/
And guess what are the most rewarding things to do: CoF brainless runs and brainless world bosses!
Do the designers really want to promote brainless play? I am baffled

Edit to mention that I am actually a fanboy: I love the core mechanics and design of the game. Actually I love the idea so much that I want to improve it, I won’t let it down, I won’t let it be wasted by people who do not understand gaming!

I’m not so sure I agree about the Fractal part. I love Fractals, and I’m no grinder. To me, Fractals are the best dungeon in the game…but I’ll never grind them. I’m up to level 20 finally after all this time.

I agree they are great! Finally some mechanics that are not as boring as in the other dungeons (bar a few). But their rewards? That’s what’s wrong!

I find Fractals to be relatively rewarding, when compared to doing most other content.

Insignya.8625:

Not once did I say that I want Guild Wars 2 to be another gear grind MMO. I want Guild Wars 2 to be what it was months ago, just improved upon. On paper the game is about exploration, even-level of strength and skill-based combat. In reality, it’s a zerg-fest with no clear goal. How can you deny that? Is the difference between servers so great that I’m playing a completely different game from you? Because I’ve been witness to these things for months.

It’s incredibly hard not to get frustrated when people continue to dismiss my points just because. If you were happy with the game’s direction you’d have told me straight to my face that GW2 is about erasing months of content and playing 2 days a month. What are you exploring after Map Completion is done? The game doesn’t give you an incentive to go back to less-populated zones. I can go back there if I wish, but the world in Guild Wars 2 is currently a campaign mode – you need to beat it only once to see everything.

I think we all want the game to improve in the end, no? Guild Wars 2 hasn’t dealt with gear grinding, it just removed the stat requirement. It’s still the same “kill 10000 rats” experience once you it. The future of the game was never updated – that’s people’s gripe with the Living Story. RNG is made to complement the reward system, not define it -that’s the problem here. Too much gambling. Too much. The list goes on. To summarize…

Guild Wars 2 has no focus and so people don’t commit. No regular players = no community. There, my entire thread in one sentence.

Actually I see alot of criticism and pointers of what A-net are doing wrong, but what do you think they can do about it?

It’s not A-net fault you play the game to much and get bored with it before they can give you new maps and new enjoyable content.

They are trying a new model they had “Living Story” and they are listening to their community about what they are doing wrong and how they can do things better but as we speak I am sure they have already started at working on atleast septembers update so we maby won’t se any change of what we complain about until October for an example.
- Not fact.

The time it takes for them to do a content you play through in two days is alot more than two days I assume.

You claim you have to grind for endgame content, when I see endgame is when I have beaten Zaithan and get to se the endingscene.
Stuff like Legendary is just something I will get eventually and not something I must have. In the beginning I saw a Legendary weapon as a proof of an old GW2 veteran, someone who have played and enjoyed every content of the game and deserves it, not someone who has farmed CoF constantly for a few weeks and bought it at TP or someone who has Farmed Orr for years and so on. Now when I see someone with a Legendary I am not even the slightest impressed by people wearing it, they should have made it ‘Bound on Accuire’.
RNG’s, sure it’s bad and I don’t like it but you don’t have to farm it and it is not endgame content.

WvW, I have played WvW and fallen victim to alot of Zergs and a server totaly Zerging another server or 2Vs1 is not fun at all.
But honestly I haven’t played much WvW since I am more of a PvE player but what can they do about the Zerging? Take away Mesmer portals? Take away combo fields? Or if you downed you are dead?

In my little WvW experience I have had alot of fun, I have played with my guild going 5 against lot’s and we end up killing a whole lot of them (Well we where not victorius) and gave them a whole good whoopin. We have also been whiped from the face of the battlefield too and we have been in Zerg Vs Zerg and that is awseome fights imo, accept for some lag.

One of the greatest ways to win a battle is to have a greater army than your enemy, but they best way is to have a good leader and a good strategy.
And not to be rude but you may have your problems in WvW becouse you think there is no teamplay in WvW since I have noticed you can do alot much better if you group up and fight together even in Zergs.

And I have seen that in our WvW atleast, when there is a bad leader everyone just run around like wild and with a good leader we usually keep the enemy atleast occupied.

Also the things you say that “will” return players to the game is wierd, well you might be right but do you have any fact’s, do you even have any numbers on how many players have left and that when they return how many players will leave becouse they don’t like raids and having you find a whole raid to earn the “Harder the content the better reward you get” item.

Do you have any evidence that Hardcore players stays longer when the content is harder? Well I think that they will level to level 80, do the hard content until it’s easy and then they will complain on forums that it’s to easy and then they will go back to their old MMO or move on the the next. If they don’t actually like GW2 for more things than just Dungeons that is.

And again how do you know that we consumers isn’t treated with respect, I have played alot of mmorpg’s and now on later years all MMO’s are having RNG boxes and alot of Pay to get it, so it’s just stupid to say that they don’t respect us, from what I read on these forums I see alot of respect from the Devs, they are constantly giving us updates to if a bug is getting fixed or if there will be actually new permanent content and why I got banned and more.
And the latest Living story there was no new RNG boxes, well the AR dungeon I guess the Monocle is RNG but isn’t that bad is it? Since a great number of players can’t even compleate the dungeon becouse A-net listens to people who complains that dungeons are to easy.
GW2 is not “My dress shop” or a WoW-clone since you almost not buy any clothes in store and well it’s not a WoW-clone and who can complain when there is an option to look cool you will use it? To difference to some mmorpg’s when you get a new gear it’s a pink dress with a cute lilly on and you have to wear it since it’s the best armor atm.
And most armor and weapons are not RNG.

And once again I bet you have the numbers that A-net, NCsoft or whatever buissnes model is flawed, you know that Subscritions is far greater than what GW2 now has?

About; don’t like it, don’t play it is just as true as it is… No one is forcing you to play it so if you don’t like it don’t play it, but if you do like it please play it and if there is some things you wan’t changed please give feedback and critisism but some people just wan’t this game to be just like other games and they seems to know everything about marketing and how easy it is to fix bugs and release updates and so on. I am one player, if I don’t like it I won’t play it and I won’t change the fate of this game if I quit.
If 10 players argues on this forum about how bad this game is and if they don’t fix it they will quit, well they are 10 out of alot of other players in this world and well they won’t change the fate of this game, I bet there are alot of players saying ‘I will never return to this game again’ just now as I write this, but also there are alot buying this game as I write this and guess what I think…? No one of these will change the fate of GW2 not until the numbers drop and I don’t have these numbers so I don’t know.

I don’t get it what you say about fun… Eh?
Well a game is supposed to be fun.
In this game you can grind and if you think that’s fun, do that.
In this game you don’t have to grind, if you think you have to grind and don’t think it’s fun then you are aiming for the “wrong” purpose of fun in this game, hence ‘You are playing it wrong’.

If you have played to level 80 with atleast one char and compleated all Dungeons, every level of fractals all JP’s and more then I guess you have had your fun and you have now depleated the resourses GW2 can offer you at the moment, try to follow the Living Story or just take a break I promice it won’t hurt the future of GW2 if you take a break, I have been playing since headstart and I will continue to Pay and play.

I respect you criticize the point’s you are dissupointed at since not only it shows your point of view but also other players point of view as they comment for or against so A-net has something to build their future game on.

So I hope the game soon becomes a liking to both you and me.

ShaeMtal.9473:

Yet they will, as legendaries is one, if not the most prominent endgame goal of GW2. People will work for them. Also, when people cannot reliably see themselves getting what they try to work for, they will simply stop.

Or people will set out to achieve goals that are easier and less annoying to achieve. I probably will never get a legendary. Does it mean that I should quit playing an awesome game just because I can’t get the rarest, most expensive item?

Mirta.5029:

ShaeMtal.9473:

Yet they will, as legendaries is one, if not the most prominent endgame goal of GW2. People will work for them. Also, when people cannot reliably see themselves getting what they try to work for, they will simply stop.

Or people will set out to achieve goals that are easier and less annoying to achieve. I probably will never get a legendary. Does it mean that I should quit playing an awesome game just because I can’t get the rarest, most expensive item?

Not at all. The key thing here, I think, is that you still consider this an awesome game REGARDLESS. Whereas most people who are struggling with it is because they have decided that they are bored of/frustrated with the game as it stands.

CrossedHorse.4261:

Not at all. The key thing here, I think, is that you still consider this an awesome game REGARDLESS. Whereas most people who are struggling with it is because they have decided that they are bored of/frustrated with the game as it stands.

Well
1. Thank goodness for upcoming precursor hunt, eh?
2. I don’t think that one should give up just because something is hard, or they’re really unlucky. After all, they can amass the money and buy it off TP.

Mirta.5029:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Not at all. The key thing here, I think, is that you still consider this an awesome game REGARDLESS. Whereas most people who are struggling with it is because they have decided that they are bored of/frustrated with the game as it stands.

Well
1. Thank goodness for upcoming precursor hunt, eh?
2. I don’t think that one should give up just because something is hard, or they’re really unlucky. After all, they can amass the money and buy it off TP.

Absolutely. I agree with all of this. That’s why I’m happy with the way legendaries are achieved in game at the moment. Sure, the RNG does give me some concern, but I don’t have a better suggestion, so I’m fine as it is.

I see about 120 (maybe 50 unique posters) posts and about 40 different opinions here. That just goes to show all of you that no matter what you think will make the game better. only ArenaNet can see that actual data and will likely always due what is most likely to keep profits up. So I am sorry, but if you don;t like the decisions they make you have two options. 1 Keep playing anyway. 2. Find a game you enjoy more.

This game was never designed to be the perfect game for everyone, simply because that is physically impossible. Until someone release a game where every player can make their own content just by thinking about what they want no game will ever have a chance at being everyone perfect game, and I bet even then some people will “dislike” that game.

Insignya.8625:

TL:DR – Guild Wars 2 has no focus and so people don’t commit. No regular players = no community.

This is a huge problem. I tried bringing this to everyone’s attention about the complete deficit of a community in this game. It’s going to hurt it in the long run.

Well said OP, read all of it and most of it I agree with

The people who would appreciate your posts haven’t left by the way, most of us are just waiting for Anet to make a move on new content and fixes for some problem areas of the game.

Praise to you OP, for having the courage to speak up.

I have played this game for about 3 weeks before i couldnt stomach it anymore. It was very painful because i absolutely love GW1.

This game was a declaration of intent. Anet wanted to break with all the established norms and create a name for itself. Sadly, the norms are in place for a reason, because they worked.

Getting rid of healers was the biggest mistake anet ever made with GW2. We are breaking the trinity bla bla we are so awesome. The trinity was already broken on GW1 and it was great. But what anet tried to do was get rid of the trinity, and guess what, several games had tried to do that before and failed. Why? Because the point of the trinity is to motivate team play. This was removed because of played frustrated that they couldnt find healers on GW1, and now they cant find an enjoyable game on GW2. This was obviously a terrible idea and i said so the minute i saw it.

Unfortunely i believe this game is beyond redemption. The game we needed was GW1-2. GW1 had an addictive and logical design and was terribly enjoyable. Instead they wanted GW2 to break with every mold including the sucessful one from the first game. Big mistake. You ended up with an incoherent game. It got you your praise from the press, but it didnt from the players.

Theres only 2 possible ways to revive Guild Wars now. To develop Guild Wars 3 (beeing that a continuation of the design of Guild Wars 1) or complete revamp guild Wars 2 with an expansion. This no trinity thing, doesnt work. Its sad but its impossible for it to work because it requires precise balance that will never be garanteed to exist in the team. Also, bring back the story driven content that was much better than what we had here.
And finally, adopt the old model of GW1 of releasing a campaign/expansion every year. I believe it works much better than micro-transactions beeing forced for even the most menial tasks like teleporting. People complain about the WoW gear grind, but the gold grind is alot worse.
Oh and for the love of god reverse the combat system to the one on Guild Wars 1 aswell, not this auto-attack abomination we got. Bring back energy resources. A CD based combat system also doesnt work.

Lastly i find it funny people defend the manifesto. The manifesto represents where this game went wrong. It tried to change everything, but this change is not something possible to deliver alongside an engaging and fun to play game. Stop trying to bury yourselves on what doesnt work. Stick to what it did, wich was the things we had on GW1 and expanding on those.

fellyn.5083:

Where has Anet ever said legendary weapons are supposed to be rare and only a select few (ironically, chosen at complete random) deserve to have them?

And if your retort is “you can precursors off the market”. In what way is buying one of the main ingredients for such admittedly rare weapons that only a few deserve off the market like any other common piece of junk legendary?

You didn’t answer my question. If a way can be made to get precursor weapons that is fun and challenging, why on earth would you defend RNG over that? Just to keep them rare?

New flash; they aren’t exactly rare anymore. Nor are they the prestige items people like you claim they should be because anyone can buy one if they spend enough real money.

The RNG breaks the monopoly some people have. Even players with a life and without epic skills have a chance to get one eventually.

Maybe there’s a better way to implement the whole idea, but I personally don’t see it. If you do, the suggestion forum is that-a way.

@Nemmar I didn’t go in detail on the core of the game here, because I don’t think Arena.NET will ever change that. It was their vision from the start, so it’d be wrong to ask them for something like that. However, I do strongly agree with you. Guild Wars 2 just got rid of things that were essential to an MMO and didn’t add anything new to replace those.

I don’t really know how to describe the lack of a holy trinity in this game. If it worked to just remove it we wouldn’t be seeing these zerg swarms on every boss. But that’s just the thing – it doesn’t work to scrap the meta and add nothing new. I’ll give you an example with League of Legends – there are no dedicated healers there, but you still have roles – support, carry, roamer, bruiser and so on and so on. With Guild Wars 2 you have characters that deal damage and characters that deal even more damage. That’s an issue beyond repair in my view, but it’s kind of pointless to ask the developers to work on that since that’s a core model of the game.

You don’t have a resource to cast spells so they become just this thing you spam whenever it’s off cooldown. Like, the only point of consideration here is if you blow a big CD ability too early. Stealth is implemented so lazily – I can’t even call the thief a real rogue, because it just feels like I’m threading on broken mechanics. Damage dispels invisibility – that’s staple for game design. I don’t feel like I’m stalking my prey or hiding in shadows – it honestly feels like an exploit. Things like the condition cap, the fact that you get zero advantage for standing on top of a wall in WvW to firing from below… they’re just annoying to discuss because I know they’ll never be changed and I honestly don’t want this thread to turn into whining.

There’s just these things that are unsalvageable and I’ve always wondered how the devs didn’t see them. I mean, didn’t they play their own game before release?

It’s kind of a love-hate relationship. I’m disappointed that Arena.NET didn’t bother to work on these potentially game-breaking problems before release. It really affected the whole product – dungeons, dynamic events, WvW… A game I’m beta testing now is called Dawngate – the devs asked us on the forums to literally “break the game”. That’s how you ensure longevity – you work on everything that hampers the fun prior to release.

Without transparency you’re leaving people with the most logical suggestion- that the revenue from your game is supporting the development of Wildstar.

Quoted for truth. I’ll have to read the rest of the post when I get home, but so far I think you’re hitting all the nails on the head.

Xenon.4537:

Without transparency you’re leaving people with the most logical suggestion- that the revenue from your game is supporting the development of Wildstar.

Quoted for truth. I’ll have to read the rest of the post when I get home, but so far I think you’re hitting all the nails on the head.

that is how every company works though -_-
How do you think they managed to get GW2 up and running in the first place?

using a good name of Guild Wars…

Vayne.8563:

Seems to me that there’s a huge ideological divide between what makes an MMO good or even playable.

- snip -

The main difference I see between players like Vayne and players like the OP is patience.

As Vayne outlined, a subset of GW2 players like the fact that GW2 is different from “standard” MMO’s in many ways — and there’s a subset that wants the game to be more like those other MMO’s. As Vayne points out, there are a lot of games that cater to the latter set, with little to no options for the former.

I think both groups see that there are things that GW2 needs to do better. However, the latter group can afford to be impatient. After all, they have other MMO’s to go to. Those who have nowhere else to go, must be patient.

As to making a statement, well, ANet has made a lot of them. The most recent (today) says that they will be rolling out updates every two weeks. Don’t like what came out this time? Wait two weeks, there’ll be something different. Unfortunately, we don’t all have the same amount of patience, do we?

No the fact we don’t like is that is that GW2 is more and more like thousands of other main-stream mmos. Unlike what first GW was.

Ichishi.9613:

No the fact we don’t like is that is that GW2 is more and more like thousands of other main-stream mmos. Unlike what first GW was.

yet I could find more things that are the same between GW1 and WoW than between GW2 and WoW.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Kuruptz.4782:

I agree on the reward part so hard

there is those kittens who steps into the game plays it 50 hours throw a rare into forge BOOM 500 gold

Then there is those poor loser kittens like me who plays 1000+ hours in 10 months THROWS 4000 rares into that Godkitten forge and gets nothing

Wait a minute – you apparently didn’t pay attention when the mystic toilet was explained. It’s like the lottery. Are you going to get mad when you play the lottery for 10 years and get nothing? Are you going to get mad when someone buys their first ticket and wins? I never throw anything in the MF expecting anything but trash. If you had saved all of the money that you used buying rares or salvaged all of the rares that dropped for you into ectos and sold them you would have your 500 gold.

Yes, yes i would be mad if i played it for 10 years and get nothing

Not that it would do anything good but i guess most people would be mad but there is ofcourse nothing to do we all know what mystic toilet is and the lottery no need to take my post serious

Mirta.5029:

Ichishi.9613:

No the fact we don’t like is that is that GW2 is more and more like thousands of other main-stream mmos. Unlike what first GW was.

yet I could find more things that are the same between GW1 and WoW than between GW2 and WoW.

I just…I don’t…

Insignya.8625:

I don’t really know how to describe the lack of a holy trinity in this game.

It is like your in a WoW dungeon and the tank dies, your healer is in his dps spec and you are running around like a headless chicken trying to CC/snare and kill the mobs.

Ichishi.9613:

No the fact we don’t like is that is that GW2 is more and more like thousands of other main-stream mmos. Unlike what first GW was.

This! Thank you a million times. In short – Guild Wars 2 is becoming what other MMOs are. Colin’s plan for the support of this game is every MMO’s plan with a fresh paintjob. To me, when a game is forced to rely solely on grinding to define its endgame, that means the studio has run out of creativity.

I don’t get why people are so defensive of Guild Wars 2, like it’s the Holy Grail of originality. It used to be this completely different concept. Now it’s reduced to basically a standard MMO without gear grind and nothing else to substitute that. You’re not paying for subscription and the micro transactions aren’t a pay-to-win mechanic. That’s it, really. Everything else this year has been cookie cutter classic.

Insignya.8625:

Ichishi.9613:

No the fact we don’t like is that is that GW2 is more and more like thousands of other main-stream mmos. Unlike what first GW was.

This! Thank you a million times. In short – Guild Wars 2 is becoming what other MMOs are. Colin’s plan for the support of this game is every MMO’s plan with a fresh paintjob. To me, when a game is forced to rely solely on grinding to define its endgame, that means the studio has run out of creativity.

I don’t get why people are so defensive of Guild Wars 2, like it’s the Holy Grail of originality. It used to be this completely different concept. Now it’s reduced to basically a standard MMO without gear grind and nothing else to substitute that. You’re not paying for subscription and the micro transactions aren’t a pay-to-win mechanic. That’s it, really. Everything else this year has been cookie cutter classic.

Bi-Weekly temporary content is just like every MMO? Along with that multiple cases of special skins to these temporary events that will in the future give a glimpse at what a playrer has done and how long they have been playing.

The continued improvement to s/tpvp and wvw?(which both have a basis in past MMOs but neither follow the industry standard mold)

The constant interviews and posts about what they are working on 2 weeks, 2 months, and even 6 months out? That is certainly not a standard for already released MMOS.

Have they made some mistakes while trying to be/stay unique? Of course they have and they are working on a remedy for those things. Such as Group Finder, Guild Halls/ Home Instance, Lack of difficult content for groups larger than 5, all of which are in the works for the relatively near future.

Forging your own path is not easy, there are a lot of challenges along the way and most of them are not overnight fixes. The best part about Guild Wars 2 is if the road is too bumpy for you right now, put it aside, play something else and try it again in a month to see if you like the changes. It will still be here, will cost you no money, and might save you from spending more on other games.

Aeonblade.8709:

Mirta.5029:

Ichishi.9613:

No the fact we don’t like is that is that GW2 is more and more like thousands of other main-stream mmos. Unlike what first GW was.

yet I could find more things that are the same between GW1 and WoW than between GW2 and WoW.

I just…I don’t…

well think of it this way – if we’re going to draw lines between a very new game that does many things differently and an old game that wasn’t exactly an MMO it’s easier to see how an old game would be more similar to an old MMO.
In example:
You stand still to cast spells or abilities,
There is a healer,
If you die in a dungeon you can’t just waypoint back (you can all wipe and lose progress),
the quests are typical MMO quests (you pick them up, you hand them back in),
etc.

Yes, sadly enough it is the same. You get lower quality new stuff quicker and for free, with micro-transactions to maintain profit. How’s that a revolution? I’d support an expansion and that’s pay-to-play content, the living story is just that pointless. Bi-weekly “updates”? Look, the only thing of value they’re putting in with these updates are the temporary dungeons… which go away. That, and the balance updates, which are ridiculously slow. I mean come on, you want an E-sports title and you’re pushing at a snail’s pace.

As for the latest blog piece – I’ll say something I should have said when I watched the manifesto for the first time: “I’ll believe it when I see it.” When there’s real reward in the game, challenging content and non-insulting achievements, I’ll take it all back and apologize for ever doubting the future of Guild Wars 2. Until then, it’s all marketing and PR as far as I’m concerned.

Insignya.8625:

Ichishi.9613:

No the fact we don’t like is that is that GW2 is more and more like thousands of other main-stream mmos. Unlike what first GW was.

This! Thank you a million times. In short – Guild Wars 2 is becoming what other MMOs are. Colin’s plan for the support of this game is every MMO’s plan with a fresh paintjob. To me, when a game is forced to rely solely on grinding to define its endgame, that means the studio has run out of creativity.

I don’t get why people are so defensive of Guild Wars 2, like it’s the Holy Grail of originality. It used to be this completely different concept. Now it’s reduced to basically a standard MMO without gear grind and nothing else to substitute that. You’re not paying for subscription and the micro transactions aren’t a pay-to-win mechanic. That’s it, really. Everything else this year has been cookie cutter classic.

But it seems you are blinded by the though of having to grind for the Legendary or any other stuff for that matter.

The legendary isn’t supposed to be grinded it’s supposed to be a long-term goal as ju play the game and enjoy it, someday you have neccesary materials to get it.

I may defencive to the game and that is becouse unlike you there are lot’s of stuff I like about this game, I can’t understand why some players even complain this much and doesn’t quit.
It doesn’t matter what it was originally though out to be for me, I like the wag Guild Wars 2 turned out to be, so maby it is my holy grail.

You complain on almost every aspect of the game, even the community and still you play the game? And you are wondering why there are people defending this game they like to play and enjoy unlike some others.

Not everyone think the same, what you hate others may love, complain all you wan’t but don’t get supriced that there are people out here that does not agree with you.

new content in skill based game = new skills, new builds etc etc.
Not a thousand of new achievs every 2 weeks normal people don’t care about.
As far as story goes with “living story” even free mmos have better ones

@EdgarMTanaka wtf? I’m not surprised people are defensive of Guild Wars 2, they have the right to do so and in many areas they’re correct to critique me. I’m surprised they’re defensive because they think the game is so different from other MMOs, claiming I just want old mechanics back. I don’t, as a matter of fact I’m trying to prevent that from happening, by providing feedback that’s now derailed into pointless bickering because of having to re-explain myself so many times.

I retain the right to be a critic, even if I’m beginning to sound opinionated, which I apologize for. I don’t spend so much time giving away my thoughts on other forums, but I have had meaningful conversations with devs of other games. What aggravates me is Guild Wars 2 has all this content already ready, yet for some reason they’re pushing in new areas and things of no benefit, instead of capitalizing on what they’ve already made. The Living Story by itself isn’t a problem – it becomes so when that’s the focus of development, instead of revamping the events in underpopulated zones, faster, more accurate balancing based on public beta testers’ feedback , gem store items that are a guaranteed take and a worthy investment… armor and weapon skins!

What’s so magical about these updates? Even if the story provided some element of entertainment, it’s barely coherent between each new addition. First it was about the karka infestation, then it was about the Molten Allience, now we have some pirates… why? A fully fleshed-out story with more emphasis on “clever dialogue”, not cheesy one-liners – that’s a good start! I’m sorry, how is it a “Living Story” if these bits of content are so disenfranchised and non-relevant to the dragon conflict and saving of Orr Island? Aren’t we supposed to see Tyria evolve around the premise of the personal story? Is another studio in charge of making these updates?

Insignya you need to calm down. There are hundreds of people that understand you and do agree with you. You shouldn’t care about the others so much…

But I do disagree about that the living story as a bad thing from top to bottom. Right now it really sucks (just as you describe). But from what I heard it appears that it’s also going to be a way to do just what you describe in more realistic and meaningful way. Like making World Boss battles more fun is going to be a part of some of the stories. It’s definitely a better way to incorporate this into the game then just writing somewhere in patch notes: “revamped shatterer encounter”.

This game will be loosing players simply because it doesn’t provide enough rich multilevel entertainment. Good RPG is about doing epic stuff and gaining juicy rewards which show other people that you did something huge in game. Doing dungeons for few tokens, achi or other BS things is not enough and it never will be because human nature doesn’t work like this. People jumped on GW2 because game in initial stage did give them what they wanted and after few weeks it all burned out leaving most people with 80lvl chars and lots of boring repetitive tasks.
After more than 10 years of playing mmo’s i can say that Anet completely missed point of goood mmorpg while making their own game… at least on PvE level.

Surprised someone made the effort to revive this thread. I really am thankful, I just became tired of people’s misinterpretation of my words. Perhaps it is a good idea to keep the conversation going.

@Nick, yeah, the Living Story can be a valuable asset in Guild Wars 2’s development. I don’t hate it entirely, it’s just everything we’ve been getting for months now, that’s all. These “updates”, they’re kinda like holiday events, the way I see them. I mean, they take roughly 2-3 hours to complete and after you’re done they become completely irrelevant. Unless you go for the extremely grindy achievements, that is. (sorry, there’s no grinding in Guild Wars 2, I keep forgetting)

I don’t want to get that upset, honestly, I just want to help the devs do their job properly. But when the remaining community is actively pushing Guild Wars 2 off the cliff and into the ocean of mediocrity, like… what’re you supposed to do? I appreciate when people correct me and tell me how this is actually for the better of the game. What I don’t appreciate is the mindless commitment of some people to defend Guild Wars 2, even when it clearly betrays its very foundation.

The game is just odd in that regard, because it makes a great first impression. The leveling experience is by far the best in any MMO, the exploration is amazing, etc. It takes time to realize how badly this game lacks focus. And each update I would say “oh well, they’ll fix their insultingly boring endgame next time!” Well, it’s been almost a year and here we are, with a bunch of free fluff and zero quality updates. And it’s not that you can’t make those, Arena.NET – it’s just that you don’t care. Any person who’s devoted enough time into Guild Wars 2 will tell you that.

WarDice.9718:

Good RPG is about doing epic stuff and gaining juicy rewards which show other people that you did something huge in game.

This may be the least true statement I’ve ever seen on a forum. Maybe you mean MMO instead of RPG. Because RPGs can be single player or multiplayer and obviously, getting stuff in an RPG isn’t something you can show people, because it’s single player.

In fact, getting stuff in an RPG is a relatively recent invention. There are tons of RPGs where finishing the story/solving the puzzle is the main goal and items are incidental. I don’t know anyone who plays Skyrim to farm objects, and that’s most certainly an RPG.

The problem here is that WoW has made MMOs so popular that people can no longer disassociate the MMO aspect from the RPG aspect, when they’re completely separate and different things.

One of my criticisms of the genre as a whole is that most of it cares far more about the MMO part than the RPG part.

Guild Wars 2 is a step in the right direction. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than most of the other crap out there.

When the whole genre requires you to be immersed, challenged and rewarded and see your character progress and Guild Wars 2 does none of these things, then it’s just an MMO, not an RPG. If anything, Arena.NET is doing everything possible to not have a single RPG aspect in this game.

It’s just beyond stupid that I can find a goal in Skyrim, a game that’s 2 years old and I’ve modded over 50 times, yet Guild Wars 2 shows me the door every time I do the Living Story. So hooow exactly is this an RPG? I forgot, I’m meant to skip around and “have fun”. Well guess what, if I can beat 90% of the game in alt-tab and don’t have a single item to pursue that doesn’t involve ludacris amounts of grinding (I’m sorry, Arena.NET, there’s no grinding) or a 0.00001% chance to get by spending 1 gold in a slot machine, then the game is simply not fun for me.

If I wanted an experience that doesn’t last I’d be playing single-player games. MMOs are meant to evolve, not provide 2 hours of new “content” every 2 weeks and a bunch of achievements that are just as pointless and boring as they’ve been in every other MMO. There’s your “step in the right direction”: a once great game that’s now a Barbie Dress Shop. Heck, you can find more end game even there if you’re trying to date Ken.

I think you have a limited time to see this because the Moderator automatically deletes every reply to Vayne.

Vayne.8563:

WarDice.9718:

Good RPG is about doing epic stuff and gaining juicy rewards which show other people that you did something huge in game.

This may be the least true statement I’ve ever seen on a forum. Maybe you mean MMO instead of RPG. Because RPGs can be single player or multiplayer and obviously, getting stuff in an RPG isn’t something you can show people, because it’s single player.

In fact, getting stuff in an RPG is a relatively recent invention. There are tons of RPGs where finishing the story/solving the puzzle is the main goal and items are incidental. I don’t know anyone who plays Skyrim to farm objects, and that’s most certainly an RPG.

The problem here is that WoW has made MMOs so popular that people can no longer disassociate the MMO aspect from the RPG aspect, when they’re completely separate and different things.

One of my criticisms of the genre as a whole is that most of it cares far more about the MMO part than the RPG part.

Guild Wars 2 is a step in the right direction. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than most of the other crap out there.

Video game RPG’s, including MMO’s, were initially derived from D&D. That game most assuredly featured “getting better gear” as a defining feature. Many of those who PNP RP moved on from hack/slash/reward play into actual storytelling. Some didn’t. My guess is that both types play video games, including MMO’s.

That said, good RP is its own reward.

Insignya.8625:

When the whole genre requires you to be immersed, challenged and rewarded and see your character progress and Guild Wars 2 does none of these things, then it’s just an MMO, not an RPG. If anything, Arena.NET is doing everything possible to not have a single RPG aspect in this game.

It’s just beyond stupid that I can find a goal in Skyrim, a game that’s 2 years old and I’ve modded over 50 times, yet Guild Wars 2 shows me the door every time I do the Living Story. So hooow exactly is this an RPG? I forgot, I’m meant to skip around and “have fun”. Well guess what, if I can beat 90% of the game in alt-tab and don’t have a single item to pursue that doesn’t involve ludacris amounts of grinding (I’m sorry, Arena.NET, there’s no grinding) or a 0.00001% chance to get by spending 1 gold in a slot machine, then the game is simply not fun for me.

If I wanted an experience that doesn’t last I’d be playing single-player games. MMOs are meant to evolve, not provide 2 hours of new “content” every 2 weeks and a bunch of achievements that are just as pointless and boring as they’ve been in every other MMO. There’s your “step in the right direction”: a once great game that’s now a Barbie Dress Shop. Heck, you can find more end game even there if you’re trying to date Ken.

I think you have a limited time to see this because the Moderator automatically deletes every reply to Vayne.

Maybe the moderator deletes your responses because you don’t like to keep it civil.

There’s tons of stuff in this game that would appeal to an RPGer. Attention to detail is one of them. Having stuff just happen in the world, instead of talking to an NPC is another. And the abilility to turn off map markers can make the game very RPGish. Because you’re exploring without knowing where to go. That is one of the choices you can access. If you haven’t, I would suggest that’s your issue, not the games. The game’s issue is not making it more clear that this can be done.

I’m an old time RPGer and I love this game, because I can just wander around and find stuff. I’m not overly worried about going to where an arrow points me. I love the little hidden stuff, like the hidden event in AC for example. It’s not marked on any map, you just have to find it. Entrances to some of the mini dungeons are that way too.

Of course, if you run to the wiki or Dulfy to find stuff, then you’re not looking for an RPG in the first place.

@Vayne, yeah, I’ve been everywhere because the first 2 months I played Guild Wars 2 like Skyrim. What now? When the first impressions are over where should I go? To some hidden jumping puzzle that will award me with blues? Those qualities are indicative of single-player games, like Skyrim or Witcher 2. Only they do it 10 times better. Guild Wars 2 is meant to last and give meaningful content to run multiple times. Except it has zero replay value and nothing to go for once it’s over. And I have 5 alts in addition to my main. I never make alts in a game, but that’s what Guild Wars 2 is, it’s a great journey and nothing more. Can you admit you’ve committed to this game? Because pretty much everyone who tries to ends up disappointed and I didn’t want to be disappointed because I found Guild Wars 2 to be amazing until I did.

Keeping it civil? Gee that’s hard, when people have been writing here for days and Colin is just trolling the forums. I’ve never seen developers this blind-folded. Log on to the League’s forums and you’ll see reds replying to threads with 500 views. It’s always been like this – they take the criticism and concern and they communicate. Even if they’re right in that regard, they’ll still take the time to explain why it’s like that in LoL.

What Arena.NET is doing is cowardly, it’s pathetic. If you’re not gonna talk to your community then all you care about is profit, not a better experience. I have no reason to believe the devs want to improve Guild Wars 2, when all we get is PR talk. I don’t want your ridiculous promises, Colin! I want actual transparency. You don’t look like a gamer in your interviews, you look like someone who has zero interest in making a worthwhile product. It’s so apparent when a developer is actually concerned with the community’s wishes and when he’s copy-pasting the same thing every time with zero context.

Insignya.8625:

@Vayne, yeah, I’ve been everywhere because the first 2 months I played Guild Wars 2 like Skyrim. What now? When the first impressions are over where should I go? To some hidden jumping puzzle that will award me with blues? Those qualities are indicative of single-player games, like Skyrim or Witcher 2. Only they do it 10 times better. Guild Wars 2 is meant to last and give meaningful content to run multiple times. Except it has zero replay value and nothing to go for once it’s over. And I have 5 alts in addition to my main. I never make alts in a game, but that’s what Guild Wars 2 is, it’s a great journey and nothing more. Can you admit you’ve committed to this game? Because pretty much everyone who tries to ends up disappointed and I didn’t want to be disappointed because I found Guild Wars 2 to be amazing until I did.

Keeping it civil? Gee that’s hard, when people have been writing here for days and Colin is just trolling the forums. I’ve never seen developers this blind-folded. Log on to the League’s forums and you’ll see reds replying to threads with 500 views. It’s always been like this – they take the criticism and concern and they communicate. Even if they’re right in that regard, they’ll still take the time to explain why it’s like that in LoL.

What Arena.NET is doing is cowardly, it’s pathetic. If you’re not gonna talk to your community then all you care about is profit, not a better experience. I have no reason to believe the devs want to improve Guild Wars 2, when all we get is PR talk. I don’t want your ridiculous promises, Colin! I want actual transparency. You don’t look like a gamer in your interviews, you look like someone who has zero interest in making a worthwhile product. It’s so apparent when a developer is actually concerned with the community’s wishes and when he’s copy-pasting the same thing every time with zero context.

Gee, I must not be enjoying myself, because it has zero replay value. Who knew?

It has zero replay value to you. I’m replaying lots of stuff and having fun. Lots of other people seem to be too.

As for transparency, I don’t blame Anet for not saying everything they’re working on. If they change their mind even a little, someone will start a thread about how Anet lied to them. Given that situation, I wouldn’t tell this community anything until I had it absolutely nailed down. And even then, I’d get an editor, a lawyer and a philosopher to check it over before I said anything.

And cowardly and pathetic? Really? Judgmental much? The more I listen to your opinion the more glad I am that I don’t share it.

This is basically the most pointless forum I’ve seen in my life. There’s not a single dev response in the Suggestions section, General Discussion is just for reds to troll and everything else is similarly empty. What’s it about?

I started this thread to help the developers see what they should improve. Now it’s once again pointless quoting and argues. I’m not gonna be a part of these things anymore, I’m tired of it. The purpose of forums is to get feedback from the community. If you want to kick out the people who loved your game, Arena.NET, fine by me. Do hire more forum warriors next time so I can be sure from the start you don’t care at all about what people say.

See you in Wildstar.