Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Junkpile.7439:

PvE problem is that loot is kitten and bosses are too easy. You go auto attack some dragon down, get rare, use salvage kit and get ecto. Then you go and do it again, again, again and again. After while this could get boring.

If you insist on doing nothing but meta events, I’d agree. But there are more events in this game than the 20 or so meta events. Some of those events are really tough, particularly without a crowd.

Try soloing the Krait Witch if you’re bored. Let me know how that goes for you.

It’s even worse if you’re doing other events. You don’t get guaranteed anything. You’re likely to get a bunch of blues, grays, and greens that are worthless and you just NPC them.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Vayne.8563:

Junkpile.7439:

PvE problem is that loot is kitten and bosses are too easy. You go auto attack some dragon down, get rare, use salvage kit and get ecto. Then you go and do it again, again, again and again. After while this could get boring.

If you insist on doing nothing but meta events, I’d agree. But there are more events in this game than the 20 or so meta events. Some of those events are really tough, particularly without a crowd.

Try soloing the Krait Witch if you’re bored. Let me know how that goes for you.

It’s even worse if you’re doing other events. You don’t get guaranteed anything. You’re likely to get a bunch of blues, grays, and greens that are worthless and you just NPC them.

Right, because you play for rewards and that’s all that matter to you…and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Those who only play for rewards (instead of fun) are going to feel that way. There are sure a lot of you. There are also a lot of me, people who don’t play for rewards…or at least not in game rewards. Having fun doing what I’m doing is my reward.

Vayne.8563:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Vayne.8563:

Junkpile.7439:

PvE problem is that loot is kitten and bosses are too easy. You go auto attack some dragon down, get rare, use salvage kit and get ecto. Then you go and do it again, again, again and again. After while this could get boring.

If you insist on doing nothing but meta events, I’d agree. But there are more events in this game than the 20 or so meta events. Some of those events are really tough, particularly without a crowd.

Try soloing the Krait Witch if you’re bored. Let me know how that goes for you.

It’s even worse if you’re doing other events. You don’t get guaranteed anything. You’re likely to get a bunch of blues, grays, and greens that are worthless and you just NPC them.

Right, because you play for rewards and that’s all that matter to you…and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Those who only play for rewards (instead of fun) are going to feel that way. There are sure a lot of you. There are also a lot of me, people who don’t play for rewards…or at least not in game rewards. Having fun doing what I’m doing is my reward.

Being rewarded is part of the fun for many people. Just because they don’t play like you, doesn’t mean they are wrong.
Do you get paid by the hour or per post?

Vayne.8563:

Right, because you play for rewards and that’s all that matter to you…and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Those who only play for rewards (instead of fun) are going to feel that way. There are sure a lot of you. There are also a lot of me, people who don’t play for rewards…or at least not in game rewards. Having fun doing what I’m doing is my reward.

I’m sorry. Did I say that? Or did you rather infer it?

Let me explain something to you. People don’t have to be rewarded for doing events, doing dungeons, exploring the game, etc. However, when you want people to KEEP playing your game with the EXACT same events, dungeons, exploration, you have to put in an INCENTIVE for them to repeat things they’ve already done. Sure, it’s fun for the first time or first few times you do something. But it becomes monotonous, repetitive, boring. There needs to be a reason that players should be repeating content that they’ve already experienced.

The first time that you play through the content, you do not necessarily need a reward. The reward is in experiencing something new, and completing something that you haven’t done before. When you repeat it, it’s not new, and it’s something you have done before. So why do it? There has to be something in it for the player to keep them invested and interested. That’s what rewards are for. For retaining interest and playtime over a course of content being repeated.

Junkpile.7439:

PvE problem is that loot is kitten and bosses are too easy. You go auto attack some dragon down, get rare, use salvage kit and get ecto. Then you go and do it again, again, again and again. After while this could get boring.

Bosses aren’t always “too easy”, their problem is the amount of players…. The game can scale well up to a certain point but after that it’s just, press 1, go afk, collect your loot. Events can’t scale forever,, if the only aspects of a boss that scale are hit points/damage/number of adds… after a point hit points need to stop increasing, while damage also needs to have an upper cap.

What is needed, is a way to split the players and not having 100+ attacking the same foe. Of course scaling events this way is a lot harder than just increasing hitpoints/damage.

Try the karka Queen with 10 people, it’s a fun event. Try ANY guild bounty with 10 people, again a lot of them are challenging enough. Hell, try the Fire Elemental with 5 people… quite challenging boss, or at least it used to be when we were doing it with 5 people, now it might have been nerfed.

Vayne.8563:

Junkpile.7439:

PvE problem is that loot is kitten and bosses are too easy. You go auto attack some dragon down, get rare, use salvage kit and get ecto. Then you go and do it again, again, again and again. After while this could get boring.

If you insist on doing nothing but meta events, I’d agree. But there are more events in this game than the 20 or so meta events. Some of those events are really tough, particularly without a crowd.

Try soloing the Krait Witch if you’re bored. Let me know how that goes for you.

It’s waste of time because it drop some blue item anyways. If it would drop some cool looking skin i probably would try to kill it.

AlietteFaye.7316:

When you repeat it, it’s not new, and it’s something you have done before. So why do it? There has to be something in it for the player to keep them invested and interested. That’s what rewards are for. For retaining interest and playtime over a course of content being repeated.

Roleplaying, using different characters, helping out your fellow players, and just basic enjoyment? You make it sound like you’ll only play through something twice if you’re being bribed to do so. If that is the case, you should probably take a look at whether this game is for you, or indeed, if gaming is for you. I’ve beaten most of the Zelda series more times than I can count, yet I still go back through it despite it a) not changing and b) never giving me any kind of reward. It’s just fun.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Let me explain something to you. People don’t have to be rewarded for doing events, doing dungeons, exploring the game, etc. However, when you want people to KEEP playing your game with the EXACT same events, dungeons, exploration, you have to put in an INCENTIVE for them to repeat things they’ve already done. Sure, it’s fun for the first time or first few times you do something. But it becomes monotonous, repetitive, boring. There needs to be a reason that players should be repeating content that they’ve already experienced.

A sub-based game is built like this, because the longer players ride the merry go round, the more money the company running it makes.

GW2 is not a sub-based game. There ARE rewards which require a time-based commitment, such as running dungeons repeatedly for tokens to get a set of armor, or collecting mats for creating a Legendary weapon. But these are not the primary focus of the game, they are optional goals that are there if you want them, and have no effect on the game if you don’t.

The game itself is designed to be picked up and put down at will, and played in short bursts of activity rather than all day, every day. The problem is the approach players take – if you play the game as though it’s a WoW-clone skinner box, then the lack of rewards for time invested will eventually catch up with you. But if you play something else when it starts getting boring, then come back in a few weeks when the next chapter of the Living Story is released, there will always be something new to enjoy.

It’s up to you to entertain yourself, the devs aren’t going to make it rain just for you.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Let me explain something to you. People don’t have to be rewarded for doing events, doing dungeons, exploring the game, etc. However, when you want people to KEEP playing your game with the EXACT same events, dungeons, exploration, you have to put in an INCENTIVE for them to repeat things they’ve already done. Sure, it’s fun for the first time or first few times you do something. But it becomes monotonous, repetitive, boring. There needs to be a reason that players should be repeating content that they’ve already experienced.

Nope.

All of that is a rationalization to the idea of “I’m giving up on playing fun content, and instead am lowering myself to being a rat inside a Skinner box”. The moment you stop playing through content because it’s fun and begin playing through content you think is “monotonous, repetitive, boring” just to get a shiny reward, you are no better than a donkey chasing a carrot in front of its face. We already have too many MMOs like that, it’s about time we get one for human beings instead.

ArenaNet does not need to keep people playing Guild Wars 2 every day of every week for the rest of their lives. No one here is paying a monthly fee. It would be extremely simple to design a game focusing on giving a fun core experience, keeping players coming back once in a while by releasing periodical pieces of new content (like the monthly updates ArenaNet has been doing). The myth that a MMO needs grind to survive is a lie spread by players who need grind to survive.

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Vayne.8563:

Junkpile.7439:

PvE problem is that loot is kitten and bosses are too easy. You go auto attack some dragon down, get rare, use salvage kit and get ecto. Then you go and do it again, again, again and again. After while this could get boring.

If you insist on doing nothing but meta events, I’d agree. But there are more events in this game than the 20 or so meta events. Some of those events are really tough, particularly without a crowd.

Try soloing the Krait Witch if you’re bored. Let me know how that goes for you.

It’s even worse if you’re doing other events. You don’t get guaranteed anything. You’re likely to get a bunch of blues, grays, and greens that are worthless and you just NPC them.

Right, because you play for rewards and that’s all that matter to you…and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Those who only play for rewards (instead of fun) are going to feel that way. There are sure a lot of you. There are also a lot of me, people who don’t play for rewards…or at least not in game rewards. Having fun doing what I’m doing is my reward.

Being rewarded is part of the fun for many people. Just because they don’t play like you, doesn’t mean they are wrong.
Do you get paid by the hour or per post?

So I have to get paid by Anet because I don’t agree with you, or I play a different way. I’m not saying you shouldn’t have fun the way you want to have fun. I’m saying that you should play a game that is designed with you in mind. It’s like playing chess and saying, sorry I don’t like it because it’s not rewarding. Or Soccer or whatever. It’s just a different game.

You can complain and jump up and down till the cows come home, but that’s not really the game’s fault. It’s yours for playing a game that caters to a different audience.

Erasculio.2914:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Let me explain something to you. People don’t have to be rewarded for doing events, doing dungeons, exploring the game, etc. However, when you want people to KEEP playing your game with the EXACT same events, dungeons, exploration, you have to put in an INCENTIVE for them to repeat things they’ve already done. Sure, it’s fun for the first time or first few times you do something. But it becomes monotonous, repetitive, boring. There needs to be a reason that players should be repeating content that they’ve already experienced.

Nope.

All of that is a rationalization to the idea of “I’m giving up on playing fun content, and instead am lowering myself to being a rat inside a Skinner box”. The moment you stop playing through content because it’s fun and begin playing through content you think is “monotonous, repetitive, boring” just to get a shiny reward, you are no better than a donkey chasing a carrot in front of its face. We already have too many MMOs like that, it’s about time we get one for human beings instead.

ArenaNet does not need to keep people playing Guild Wars 2 every day of every week for the rest of their lives. No one here is paying a monthly fee. It would be extremely simple to design a game focusing on giving a fun core experience, keeping players coming back once in a while by releasing periodical pieces of new content (like the monthly updates ArenaNet has been doing). The myth that a MMO needs grind to survive is a lie spread by players who need grind to survive.

While I agree with you to a point, I think you are missing one point:

Since they do not require a subscription, they MUST do SOMETHING to insure future revenue, i.e. the cash shop and future expansions. They’ve been focusing BIG TIME on the cash cow…I mean cash shop, BUT, due to their continuous stripping of reward in the game, they are creating a negative effect that is driving many of their playerbase away.

For example, I know you are aware of the psychology behind gambling and slot machines. Casinos HAVE to maintain the odds at such a point that there has to be SOME return in order to keep the players interested. IF, however, the player sees NO return, they WILL stop and MAYBE move to another machine. If they see no return THERE, they MAY decide to quit playing the slots all together and leave. THAT is what is going on here: NCSoft set the odds, got you hooked, then tightened the odds DRASTICALLY. SO drastically, people have been put off with the game. (NO, Vayne, I don’t want to get into a circular argument about the loss of players!) The problem with THAT, is NOW you have jaded customers that won’t bother buying an expansion. I think we already can HEAR their arguments: “Why buy the expansion? It will just have crap for drops, they’ll nerf it in a month, etc….”

For ME, this game is dead. It’s not like GW1, which was WAY better than THIS mess. It got my $60, but nothing more. Heck, even my kids are done with this game. The only reason I stick around these forums is for SOMETHING to read between phone calls!

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Vayne.8563:

Junkpile.7439:

PvE problem is that loot is kitten and bosses are too easy. You go auto attack some dragon down, get rare, use salvage kit and get ecto. Then you go and do it again, again, again and again. After while this could get boring.

If you insist on doing nothing but meta events, I’d agree. But there are more events in this game than the 20 or so meta events. Some of those events are really tough, particularly without a crowd.

Try soloing the Krait Witch if you’re bored. Let me know how that goes for you.

It’s even worse if you’re doing other events. You don’t get guaranteed anything. You’re likely to get a bunch of blues, grays, and greens that are worthless and you just NPC them.

Right, because you play for rewards and that’s all that matter to you…and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Those who only play for rewards (instead of fun) are going to feel that way. There are sure a lot of you. There are also a lot of me, people who don’t play for rewards…or at least not in game rewards. Having fun doing what I’m doing is my reward.

Being rewarded is part of the fun for many people. Just because they don’t play like you, doesn’t mean they are wrong.
Do you get paid by the hour or per post?

So I have to get paid by Anet because I don’t agree with you, or I play a different way. I’m not saying you shouldn’t have fun the way you want to have fun. I’m saying that you should play a game that is designed with you in mind. It’s like playing chess and saying, sorry I don’t like it because it’s not rewarding. Or Soccer or whatever. It’s just a different game.

You can complain and jump up and down till the cows come home, but that’s not really the game’s fault. It’s yours for playing a game that caters to a different audience.

If, in chess, you were offered tokens with the chance of buying a “queen” chesspiece to be used whenever you want, THEN you’d be closer to comparing games. Soccer has a point system, rewarding action. THAT is the point here: if the game rewards action, and offers an item that utilizes the rewards, then you have an obligation to the playerbase accordingly. If some in the playerbase decides the reward isn’t worth the action, they will not act. If enough of the playerbase complains, then the game designers have a problem that needs addressed.

As for you working for ANet: I seriously doubt it. According to the complaints I’ve read about current and past employees, they don’t have the money!

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

.I mean cash shop, BUT, due to their continuous stripping of reward in the game, they are creating a negative effect that is driving many of their playerbase away.

I don’t think that they’re doing that, or at least not on purpose, because it would make no sense to do this. Some claim that drop rates for T6 were over-nerfed, but why would they do that? Yes you can buy gold, but if there’s no supply the gold is worthless and because you can’t buy those things in the gem store directly…
When it comes to making money though it’s easier now – before the meta event drop rate fix getting anything good as a drop was so rare.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

The only reason I stick around these forums is for SOMETHING to read between phone calls!

Try a news site. Or a funny picture site. There’s no need to stick around in the forums of a game that provide no fun for you. It just sounds sad really.

Mirta.5029:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

.I mean cash shop, BUT, due to their continuous stripping of reward in the game, they are creating a negative effect that is driving many of their playerbase away.

I don’t think that they’re doing that, or at least not on purpose, because it would make no sense to do this. Some claim that drop rates for T6 were over-nerfed, but why would they do that? Yes you can buy gold, but if there’s no supply the gold is worthless and because you can’t buy those things in the gem store directly…
When it comes to making money though it’s easier now – before the meta event drop rate fix getting anything good as a drop was so rare.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

The only reason I stick around these forums is for SOMETHING to read between phone calls!

Try a news site. Or a funny picture site. There’s no need to stick around in the forums of a game that provide no fun for you. It just sounds sad really.

I stick around Mirta, in hopes of seeing a positive change. Can’t do that if I’m not here to read it. I don’t ONLY stay here, like Vayne does! I float around various websites.

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Since they do not require a subscription, they MUST do SOMETHING to insure future revenue, i.e. the cash shop and future expansions. They’ve been focusing BIG TIME on the cash cow…I mean cash shop, BUT, due to their continuous stripping of reward in the game, they are creating a negative effect that is driving many of their playerbase away.

Keep it up. Repeating false statements long enough makes them true. Repeating false statements long enough makes them true. Repeating…

tolunart.2095:

Saldonus Darkholme.5680:

Since they do not require a subscription, they MUST do SOMETHING to insure future revenue, i.e. the cash shop and future expansions. They’ve been focusing BIG TIME on the cash cow…I mean cash shop, BUT, due to their continuous stripping of reward in the game, they are creating a negative effect that is driving many of their playerbase away.

Keep it up. Repeating false statements long enough makes them true. Repeating false statements long enough makes them true. Repeating…

OK, I’ll take your suggestion: GW2 has no problems and is fun. GW2 has no problems and is fun. GW2 has no problems and is fun. GW2 has no problems and is fun….

Shayne.2504:

About the balance issue, the same person that balanced Guild Wars 1 is in charge of the balance of Guild Wars 2. I kept asking for him to be fired or promoted (which ever got him away from balance) when he was working on Guild Wars 1. I asked that he not be put in charge of balance in Guild Wars 2 because the balance of Guild Wars 1 didn’t get corrected until he moved onto another project (bad news that project was Guild Wars 2). So it is not going to change until he moves onto the next project. You might as well get used to over powerful professions and worthless professions.

My wife and I both enjoyed Guild Wars 1 (bought two copies of everything they sold). We preordered our Guild Wars 2 and now my wife refuses to play Guild Wars 2, no hero / henchmen, gear grind, event and spawn rates seem to be affected by another player that is just in the area but not taking part, and feels like another wow clone (after Star Wars wow clone you would think no one would do it again but at last). What really killed it for her was waiting for a group event for 25 minutes – for 25 minutes we she was the only players in the area.

If this is indeed true then engineers are doomed. They’ve broken more on that class in PVE then they’ll ever fix at this point. EG/TK kitrefinement RIP.