I don’t like the way this community is thinking… so if something gets too expensive, you wan’t to lower the price right away? Joke…. 65s is not a lot anyways, and there are other methods to get mystic clovers, go play some pvp or www and finish the reward tracks, you get 2/track or 7 at the non-repeatable ones. Oh you actually have to work for that, not like pressing F on sw cf? I’m sorry, but we are talking about legendary weapons which should be exclusive…
It’s not just that the mystic coins are increasing in price. It’s the reasons behind it and players feeling that the equilibrium price for mystic coins is higher than it should be.
ANet lowered the supply when they went from the old daily system to the daily login reward system by 1/3. You used to get 365 coins per year if you did the daily every day. Now you get about 260 coins per year. A loss of about 100 coins.
Then they added the new legendaries with HoT. All four of the new legendary weapons require a full stack of Mystic Coins AND 77 Mystic Clovers. Which on average DOUBLES the requirement of Mystic Coins needed.
So that makes people wonder if ANet miscalculated what that would do the price of Mystic Coins and if they overshot the price they were aiming to get Mystic Coins to.
The best solution is to increase the supply somehow. The only problem is since the main usage of Mystic Coins is to make legendary weapons any reduction in price in a major component may lead to higher demand for the other legendary weapon ingredients. Such as T6 mats, which some have experienced a drastic price increase already. Namely Vials of Powerful Blood.
Once upon a time it was one coin per day from dailies. When Anet changed to the log-in rewards, coins dropped to 20/month. Those of us who think about these things (probably too much) realised that a 1/3 drop in supply for an item vital to crafting so many shinies meant the price could go only one way.
Which is why, after making Astralaria yesterday, I still have three stacks of coins in my bank, which I bought for 4-5 silver each an awfully long time ago….
Think I’ll hang on a bit longer, and hope to call the point at which Anet increases supply (and price falls off a cliff)
Wasn’kitten per daily + 10 for the monthly (WAY back in the day). Which is what, ~40/month? That’s closer to 1/2 a decrease if I’m remembering the numbers correctly. I remember the monthly gave something besides AP.
Reading reddit would really help with some of the questions raised in this thread.
I don’t think they really like the price of mystic coins because John has already said that he’s taking a look at them
Also, some players are quick to call it market manipulation whenever prices go up, that’s true, however, in this case there might be some manipulation mixed with an overall demand increase. Both John and Chris Cleary suspect that there could be something fishy going on like someone trying to corner the market.
[–]ChrisCleary 3 points 19 days ago
I’m up at 2AM almost everynight
Also, the market should start recovering shortly, I found the problem.
19 days ago Chris said things looked okay. So whatever they thought it was, he says he fixed it.
Reading reddit would really help with some of the questions raised in this thread.
I don’t think they really like the price of mystic coins because John has already said that he’s taking a look at them
Also, some players are quick to call it market manipulation whenever prices go up, that’s true, however, in this case there might be some manipulation mixed with an overall demand increase. Both John and Chris Cleary suspect that there could be something fishy going on like someone trying to corner the market.
People should not have to go to reddit to get the answers they seek when they have an “official” forum.
Reditt is the forum to go to for direct answers, long conversations about various subjects with the Devs and to chit chat with them.
This is the “other” forum, where we speak to each other.
That may be true, but it’s still the wrong way to go about things, every other game out there, you want to talk to a dev, the official forum is the place to do it. It’s completely backwards that you need to go else where for an official answer to anything.
Hmmm… Idea. What if, once players have maxed their Mastery bar and can’t obtain any more, every time they gain a “level”, they instead receive 1 Mystic Coin? If there are fears about this possibly generating too much supply, ANet could cap it at, say, 5 extra Coins a day. (Exact amount open to tweaking.)
Hmmm… Idea. What if, once players have maxed their Mastery bar and can’t obtain any more, every time they gain a “level”, they instead receive 1 Mystic Coin? If there are fears about this possibly generating too much supply, ANet could cap it at, say, 5 extra Coins a day. (Exact amount open to tweaking.)
That’s a nice idea, since we would be levelling a mastery this would lead people to do different stuff for EXP. They could spend some time in open world doing events, or doing fractals. It would be a decentralized incentive to play the game; they only got to tweak amount of XP do level, and amount of earned Mystic Coins (agree on 5).
They already have a way to increase the number of Mystic coins in place, the mystic forge daily. If they made that more frequent it would increase the number of coins and would be an easy way to adjust to keep coins from getting cheaper than they want.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
They can just add it to the guild commendation vendor.
And ignore why the coins are made available to everyone in the first place? Or so big guilds can have greater availability? Sorry, no, not a purposefully considered idea. Especially since a generic vendor would allow certain players to overbuy and gush the market with them.
Not that I’m against the idea of having a vendor make them available, but it needs to be more carefully considered. Some kind of once/day execution could work nicely. It could be a karma buy (never enough to throw karma at, honestly) or a crafting recipe (to make use of some of that extra mithril on the market).
Those who need them can greatly accelerate their acquisition, while others can still use their daily purchase allotment to sell to the trading post. With lower demand and increased supply, the price comes back down.
Assuming the price needs to come down. Kinda open to debate on that one. Given the excessive number required for clovers (ugh) and the moderate amount for elite spec weapons and other Forge silliness, I’d probably lean toward needing a little more supply, but not a free-purchase faucet.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
They can just add it to the guild commendation vendor.
And ignore why the coins are made available to everyone in the first place? Or so big guilds can have greater availability? Sorry, no, not a purposefully considered idea. Especially since a generic vendor would allow certain players to overbuy and gush the market with them.
Not that I’m against the idea of having a vendor make them available, but it needs to be more carefully considered. Some kind of once/day execution could work nicely. It could be a karma buy (never enough to throw karma at, honestly) or a crafting recipe (to make use of some of that extra mithril on the market).
Those who need them can greatly accelerate their acquisition, while others can still use their daily purchase allotment to sell to the trading post. With lower demand and increased supply, the price comes back down.
Assuming the price needs to come down. Kinda open to debate on that one. Given the excessive number required for clovers (ugh) and the moderate amount for elite spec weapons and other Forge silliness, I’d probably lean toward needing a little more supply, but not a free-purchase faucet.
Most people have access to the guild hall. If you had ever used that vendor, you would realize that there a daily cap and requires commendations which are also timegated.
Edit:
Guild trader unlocks at guild level 8 allowing you to buy once per day. At level 24 it goes to twice per day. At level 38 it is 3 times per day.
Most guilds should be able to easily get to level 8. This is far better than making the MF daily more frequent or having it added to one of the map rewards.
How do you know “most people have access to the guild hall?” Everyone has access to map completion rewards.
It’s not even the guild hall access that’s the difficult part. There are enough random guilds that spam invites in chat that you can find at least a crappy one with 200+ members.
The contentious point about having them bound to guilds at all is the commendations. This puts a bias against unguilded or small guilds that may not run guild missions all that frequently.
It’s already fairly irksome that something unique like Sentinel pieces require guild/group play, but at least they’re available. It’s not good, but it’s possible to acquire. Best not to go down the same path with Mystic Coins.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
Players can get obsidian shards from there at a rate of 1 commendation for 5 shards. Sometimes the large bag is available letting you get 10 shards per commendation. I don’t see anyone making a fuss about them being available from a guild vendor.
Not every system added will be available to all players. If it were map rewards then players who don’t have the time to farm events would be left out. It also doesn’t help that the coins would likely not be that plentiful to begin with or as frequently available.
Anyone can be a member of a guild that does guild missions. It’s just one other source that can affect a larger percentage of the playerbase while giving them another reason to do guild missions.
It also allows players to get more mystic coins than from map rewards or increased daily frequency. There are several timegates in place to prevent a sudden flooding of the market and we can be sure that there will be future recipes that require them putting a strain on supply. If the price drops too much, Anet just has to release a new recipe for a skin that requires 50-100 mystic coins.
So map rewards as well as from the guild vendor? Seems reasonable to me, I don’t see how people who don’t have time to farm events will have time to do guild missions. (I like my guild but can rarely join them for guild missions, I could however jump onto a map and do a few events every now and then).
Also this is about increasing supply so that the price drops as much as farming coins. Prices drop because a bunch of people are undercutting one another, a slow steady supply seems the best way of doing that.
So map rewards as well as from the guild vendor? Seems reasonable to me, I don’t see how people who don’t have time to farm events will have time to do guild missions. (I like my guild but can rarely join them for guild missions, I could however jump onto a map and do a few events every now and then).
Also this is about increasing supply so that the price drops as much as farming coins. Prices drop because a bunch of people are undercutting one another, a slow steady supply seems the best way of doing that.
Guild missions take about an hour or so do do compared to the time investment to do a full cycle of the map rewards. Look at how often silver doubloons are available. Mystic coins would likely follow a similar trend at similar quantities.
I don’t agree with adding additional sources as then you run the risk of the coins getting devalued and prompting additional uses to be added. The price would never stabilize.
Players can get obsidian shards from there at a rate of 1 commendation for 5 shards. Sometimes the large bag is available letting you get 10 shards per commendation. I don’t see anyone making a fuss about them being available from a guild vendor.
Not every system added will be available to all players. If it were map rewards then players who don’t have the time to farm events would be left out. It also doesn’t help that the coins would likely not be that plentiful to begin with or as frequently available.
Anyone can be a member of a guild that does guild missions. It’s just one other source that can affect a larger percentage of the playerbase while giving them another reason to do guild missions.
It also allows players to get more mystic coins than from map rewards or increased daily frequency. There are several timegated in place to prevent a sudden flooding of the market and we can be sure that there will be future recipes that require them putting a strain on supply. If the price drops too much, Anet just has to release a new recipe for a skin that requires 50-100 mystic coins.
Oby shards are available everywhere. It’s a waste of commendations to buy them. I horfed up 200k karma on a whim to buy them. Oby shards are not equivalent.
Just because guilds are available, it doesn’t mean that’s a good place to put that extra content. A person who can’t do map rewards isn’t going to have time for guild missions either.
“Okay everyone here? Bob’s not here. Let’s wait for Bob.”
“brbbio”
“Ready check?”
“Okay, at trek location, anyone else showing up? I’ll wait.”
“Is everyone done with race? No, okay every help with race.”
Missions are not as fast as you think them to be.
Mystic Coins would be better served in a more generalized location. Laurel, Pact, Karma vendors, whatever. Even as map rewards, it would serve the population better as a windfall to everyone participating than locking it behind guild membership. Not a terribly difficult lock, honestly, but there are a lot of guilds that just aren’t.. good. I’m lucky I found a few that are pleasant and drama free.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
Players can get obsidian shards from there at a rate of 1 commendation for 5 shards. Sometimes the large bag is available letting you get 10 shards per commendation. I don’t see anyone making a fuss about them being available from a guild vendor.
Not every system added will be available to all players. If it were map rewards then players who don’t have the time to farm events would be left out. It also doesn’t help that the coins would likely not be that plentiful to begin with or as frequently available.
Anyone can be a member of a guild that does guild missions. It’s just one other source that can affect a larger percentage of the playerbase while giving them another reason to do guild missions.
It also allows players to get more mystic coins than from map rewards or increased daily frequency. There are several timegated in place to prevent a sudden flooding of the market and we can be sure that there will be future recipes that require them putting a strain on supply. If the price drops too much, Anet just has to release a new recipe for a skin that requires 50-100 mystic coins.
Oby shards are available everywhere. It’s a waste of commendations to buy them. I horfed up 200k karma on a whim to buy them. Oby shards are not equivalent.
Just because guilds are available, it doesn’t mean that’s a good place to put that extra content. A person who can’t do map rewards isn’t going to have time for guild missions either.
“Okay everyone here? Bob’s not here. Let’s wait for Bob.”
“brbbio”
“Ready check?”
“Okay, at trek location, anyone else showing up? I’ll wait.”
“Is everyone done with race? No, okay every help with race.”
Missions are not as fast as you think them to be.
Mystic Coins would be better served in a more generalized location. Laurel, Pact, Karma vendors, whatever. Even as map rewards, it would serve the population better as a windfall to everyone participating than locking it behind guild membership. Not a terribly difficult lock, honestly, but there are a lot of guilds that just aren’t.. good. I’m lucky I found a few that are pleasant and drama free.
As I stated before, guild missions take about an 1-1.5 hours to do and you get 12-15 commendations. How long does it take to complete one full cycle of map rewards? You’d probably only have like 3 or so coins available per cycle.
The problem with what you’re suggesting is that you will flood the supply with them.
Players can get obsidian shards from there at a rate of 1 commendation for 5 shards. Sometimes the large bag is available letting you get 10 shards per commendation. I don’t see anyone making a fuss about them being available from a guild vendor.
Not every system added will be available to all players. If it were map rewards then players who don’t have the time to farm events would be left out. It also doesn’t help that the coins would likely not be that plentiful to begin with or as frequently available.
Anyone can be a member of a guild that does guild missions. It’s just one other source that can affect a larger percentage of the playerbase while giving them another reason to do guild missions.
It also allows players to get more mystic coins than from map rewards or increased daily frequency. There are several timegated in place to prevent a sudden flooding of the market and we can be sure that there will be future recipes that require them putting a strain on supply. If the price drops too much, Anet just has to release a new recipe for a skin that requires 50-100 mystic coins.
Oby shards are available everywhere. It’s a waste of commendations to buy them. I horfed up 200k karma on a whim to buy them. Oby shards are not equivalent.
Just because guilds are available, it doesn’t mean that’s a good place to put that extra content. A person who can’t do map rewards isn’t going to have time for guild missions either.
“Okay everyone here? Bob’s not here. Let’s wait for Bob.”
“brbbio”
“Ready check?”
“Okay, at trek location, anyone else showing up? I’ll wait.”
“Is everyone done with race? No, okay every help with race.”
Missions are not as fast as you think them to be.
Mystic Coins would be better served in a more generalized location. Laurel, Pact, Karma vendors, whatever. Even as map rewards, it would serve the population better as a windfall to everyone participating than locking it behind guild membership. Not a terribly difficult lock, honestly, but there are a lot of guilds that just aren’t.. good. I’m lucky I found a few that are pleasant and drama free.
As I stated before, guild missions take about an 1-1.5 hours to do and you get 12-15 commendations. How long does it take to complete one full cycle of map rewards? You’d probably only have like 3 or so coins available per cycle.
The problem with what you’re suggesting is that you will flood the supply with them.
Is that guild vendor available to those without HoT? If so, I’d be fine with that option. If not, then that vendor either needs to be added to vendors core only players can use or a different means needs to be done.
Players can get obsidian shards from there at a rate of 1 commendation for 5 shards. Sometimes the large bag is available letting you get 10 shards per commendation. I don’t see anyone making a fuss about them being available from a guild vendor.
Not every system added will be available to all players. If it were map rewards then players who don’t have the time to farm events would be left out. It also doesn’t help that the coins would likely not be that plentiful to begin with or as frequently available.
Anyone can be a member of a guild that does guild missions. It’s just one other source that can affect a larger percentage of the playerbase while giving them another reason to do guild missions.
It also allows players to get more mystic coins than from map rewards or increased daily frequency. There are several timegated in place to prevent a sudden flooding of the market and we can be sure that there will be future recipes that require them putting a strain on supply. If the price drops too much, Anet just has to release a new recipe for a skin that requires 50-100 mystic coins.
Oby shards are available everywhere. It’s a waste of commendations to buy them. I horfed up 200k karma on a whim to buy them. Oby shards are not equivalent.
Just because guilds are available, it doesn’t mean that’s a good place to put that extra content. A person who can’t do map rewards isn’t going to have time for guild missions either.
“Okay everyone here? Bob’s not here. Let’s wait for Bob.”
“brbbio”
“Ready check?”
“Okay, at trek location, anyone else showing up? I’ll wait.”
“Is everyone done with race? No, okay every help with race.”
Missions are not as fast as you think them to be.
Mystic Coins would be better served in a more generalized location. Laurel, Pact, Karma vendors, whatever. Even as map rewards, it would serve the population better as a windfall to everyone participating than locking it behind guild membership. Not a terribly difficult lock, honestly, but there are a lot of guilds that just aren’t.. good. I’m lucky I found a few that are pleasant and drama free.
As I stated before, guild missions take about an 1-1.5 hours to do and you get 12-15 commendations. How long does it take to complete one full cycle of map rewards? You’d probably only have like 3 or so coins available per cycle.
The problem with what you’re suggesting is that you will flood the supply with them.
Is that guild vendor available to those without HoT? If so, I’d be fine with that option. If not, then that vendor either needs to be added to vendors core only players can use or a different means needs to be done.
It’s HoT only but I don’t see why that couldn’t be changed.
Most of this price increase revolves around players that are pushing the value up due to the players willingness to pay more. If players are willing to pay more for an item, it’s going to keep increasing until eventually it hits a ceiling for the commodity. We’ve seen the same thing occur with numerous commodities over time.
Right now there is a consistent supply of mystic coins entering the game (way more than are being consumed) and churning through the trading post at a very slow rate. Most of the coins on the market are ones that have been flipped.
In retrospect, this is actually causing the daily login reward to be worth significantly more to players who wish to convert mystic coins to gold.
Professor of Bearbow Math @ Tyria State // @Shazbawt // “The Crippler”
So the big question is do I blow mine out on the trader or let them sit in storage collecting dust to see just how high the price will go. As far as the unlocking of service providers in a guild hall to those that don’t have HoT; I don’t see it happening any time soon. It’s just one more thing to hold over non-HoT owner’s head to get them to buy it.
Brodernot2 18 days ago
“Trade post baron” here. It’s nothing new that we have insider information. We’ve had it since launch and will always have it. I’m not going to give away my source, but as far as I am aware, Anet is alright with it. I’d know because they’ve contacted me about it in the past.
Further, they need players like us for some important reasons. For example, we are a major gold sink. Every time I dump an item at 5k gold, 15% of that is disappearing. Most players won’t sink that much in their entire playtime but we do it daily. In addition we modulate supply and demand in order to keep valuable skins valuable.
Oh, if you’re still doubting me, take a look at what’s going to happen to mystic coins next week :-)
Now, not really having need to purchase coins, I don’t know if this user meant the price was going to crash, or rise, but I thought the reference interesting considering I’d just read that somewhat recently, then saw this thread pop up.
In retrospect, this is actually causing the daily login reward to be worth significantly more to players who wish to convert mystic coins to gold.
Not so nice for the players who need the ~480 Mystic Coins to craft a HoT Legendary… :/ Literally 2 years of just waiting for login rewards, so of course people dish out the absurd amount of gold mystic coins cost…
Most of this price increase revolves around players that are pushing the value up due to the players willingness to pay more. If players are willing to pay more for an item, it’s going to keep increasing until eventually it hits a ceiling for the commodity. We’ve seen the same thing occur with numerous commodities over time.
Right now there is a consistent supply of mystic coins entering the game (way more than are being consumed) and churning through the trading post at a very slow rate. Most of the coins on the market are ones that have been flipped.
In retrospect, this is actually causing the daily login reward to be worth significantly more to players who wish to convert mystic coins to gold.
That’s strange, doesn’t supply and demand usually mean that if there’s more items going up for sale than are being bought, the item cannot go up in price no matter what?
Most of this price increase revolves around players that are pushing the value up due to the players willingness to pay more. If players are willing to pay more for an item, it’s going to keep increasing until eventually it hits a ceiling for the commodity. We’ve seen the same thing occur with numerous commodities over time.
Right now there is a consistent supply of mystic coins entering the game (way more than are being consumed) and churning through the trading post at a very slow rate. Most of the coins on the market are ones that have been flipped.
In retrospect, this is actually causing the daily login reward to be worth significantly more to players who wish to convert mystic coins to gold.
That’s strange, doesn’t supply and demand usually mean that if there’s more items going up for sale than are being bought, the item cannot go up in price no matter what?
He said way more than being consumed. Presumably consumed as in used in crafting not bought and stored or bought and flipped. So it sounds like they’re being bought and sold, but only a relative few are being used up.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
Most of this price increase revolves around players that are pushing the value up due to the players willingness to pay more. If players are willing to pay more for an item, it’s going to keep increasing until eventually it hits a ceiling for the commodity. We’ve seen the same thing occur with numerous commodities over time.
Right now there is a consistent supply of mystic coins entering the game (way more than are being consumed) and churning through the trading post at a very slow rate. Most of the coins on the market are ones that have been flipped.
In retrospect, this is actually causing the daily login reward to be worth significantly more to players who wish to convert mystic coins to gold.
That’s strange, doesn’t supply and demand usually mean that if there’s more items going up for sale than are being bought, the item cannot go up in price no matter what?
What he saying is that the majority of the mystic coins being bought from the trading post are be relisted at a higher price due to flipping, the second part tells us that supply is vastly larger than demand but a majority of that supply is not being listed on the trading post.
Supply and demand is the simple approach to viewing economics but in reality for this item it is supply vs listed vs withheld vs consumed. If most of the supply is withheld then you can have both increasing prices and increasing supply until players realized their sell value, which vary player to player. When more players hit their sell value then the price will stabilize or drop due to a flood of listings or flippers relisting to unload they stockpile.
Complaining that it isn’t fair is just silly. A group of players think that mystic coins are worth more than they are currently selling for. So they buy up coins and list them at a higher price.
The solution is simple. If you think people are willing to pay even more for them, then buy as many as you can and list them for a higher price and you will make money. Multiple people here have said they think coins will rise to 2g each. If you really think that then put every copper you can into coins at 50s and relist them for 2g each. You will be rich.
If you think they are overvalued then wait and the price will naturally adjust back down.
If they are churning through the TP at a slow rate, surely that is because people aren’t willing to pay silly prices – considering the sheer number of coins needed for certain recipes in weapons, legendaries and Guild Halls, that it is understandeable.
That would suggest a desire for players to want alternative ways to obtain the coins.
Right now there is a consistent supply of mystic coins entering the game (way more than are being consumed) and churning through the trading post at a very slow rate. Most of the coins on the market are ones that have been flipped.
In retrospect, this is actually causing the daily login reward to be worth significantly more to players who wish to convert mystic coins to gold.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the price doubled up to 1g each sooner or later. Would be the new Silver Doubloon. I guess seeing Daily Mystic Forger show up will give me some excitement lol
If they are churning through the TP at a slow rate, surely that is because people aren’t willing to pay silly prices – considering the sheer number of coins needed for certain recipes in weapons, legendaries and Guild Halls, that it is understandeable.
That would suggest a desire for players to want alternative ways to obtain the coins.
The far more likely answer is that players are greedy and self serving. People see that coin prices are rising, so they hold on to them since they think they will be worth more later. This means that although people are getting more than are being bought up, the amount listed for sale is less than the number being bought up. Therefore the available supply is lower than the demand, causing the price to rise. If people stopped hoarding them and started selling them the price would plummet.
We can see this easily if we look at the price and supply graph for mystic coins. Supply dwindled to ~10k coins and the price shot up almost 10s. The players that were hoarding immediately dumped some of their coins. Supply went up to 40k in less than 6 hours and price dropped to a 2 week low.
Mystic coins are only used in luxury skins, there is no reason for them to be cheap. It is far better for everyone if they are more expensive. This forces rich players who want luxury skins to spread out their wealth to poorer players who get coins just for logging in. This is exactly the kind of thing poor players have been asking for. But now that they have it they are the first to complain about it lol.
A psychologist would be giddy over this instant- versus delayed-gratification scenario..
- A tradable item that every player basically has equal access to, regardless of skill level
- Said item gives no real mechanical advantage, only used in luxury/vanity crafting
- Only two acquisition methods – the slow faucet (free) or the trading post (market value)
The price is what it is because everyone has the same slow but reliable access, some players must have it all RIGHT THIS BLOODY INSTANT, and some others see this as an opportunity to profit off of group A’s indifference and group B’s impatience. A unloads an otherwise worthless item for gold, B gets the latest greatest shiny, and C reminds us of something about fools and their money.
Somewhere out there, John Smith is giggling and adding another chapter to his book.
