Guild Wars 2

they think they got rid of the holy trinity..yet they didn’t do it right.

class balance for removal of holy trinity was not done right.

teviko.6049:

Ah…I see a little more where you are coming from.

I like skill, I strive to be better and better with each pass until everything is innate. I achieved that very early on with my mesmer.

However, I like filling roles. I like being a cleric in XX game, or a sorc in XX game, or a tank in XX game. If me and my friends play DPS, then we will find someone who is happy enough to play the tank/healer that we lack. For us, it sthe socialization aspect.

there’s room for both kinds of games, just not within the same game. like i said, if you like the trinity, there are plenty of games that use it as the foundation of the combat.

it’s just that GW2 is not one of them, and trying to restructure it to become one would break PvP, WvW, dungeons, and overall PvE in one swoop, as all of that has been designed with the “no trinity” idea in mind.

OP:

I dunno what you are suggesting???

Are you saying you want ‘icons’ for what is happening in combat?

i.e…if you are the ‘drawer’ (silly name for the current target of the mob) you want some sort of drawer icon to pop over their head so everyone knows that now <soandso> is now it, while one person gets a handy wrench above his head for being the aid man, and the rest get knives pointing to someone’s back as flankers?

RIght now, the game is pretty much set up, like this. What are you suggesting? If someone is getting hit, they probably run around with their head cut off until they get downed, the others will be doing as much damage in whatever capacity they can, and if anyone goes down, whoever is rezzing them kinda full-fills the ‘aid-man’ capacity. We’ll call it combat medic for now…

I’m just not sure what this suggestion is trying to…suggest

BrunoBRS.5178:

teviko.6049:

Ah…I see a little more where you are coming from.

I like skill, I strive to be better and better with each pass until everything is innate. I achieved that very early on with my mesmer.

However, I like filling roles. I like being a cleric in XX game, or a sorc in XX game, or a tank in XX game. If me and my friends play DPS, then we will find someone who is happy enough to play the tank/healer that we lack. For us, it sthe socialization aspect.

there’s room for both kinds of games, just not within the same game. like i said, if you like the trinity, there are plenty of games that use it as the foundation of the combat.

it’s just that GW2 is not one of them, and trying to restructure it to become one would break PvP, WvW, dungeons, and overall PvE in one swoop, as all of that has been designed with the “no trinity” idea in mind.

To which I have gone and done. I play another game currently, and the balance with classes is so well achieved, its..well, engaging. I can’t be happier with the game i currently play.

I know GW2 isn’t one of them, but again, what I listed is what my vision of how they were going to accomplish “anyone can fill anyone elses role”. I didn’t hear, until much,much,much later that there was no holy trinity, or at least, it was explained to me that: anyone could tank, anyone could DPS, anyone could heal, anyone could support, thus eliminating the ‘need’ for the holy trinity. (Not that there would BE NO holy trinity) In otherwords, you don’t need a warrior, a monk and a thief as the foundation of your group. (I know monks don’t exist)

From my perspective, GW2 did not achieve this. The only role that is #1 is DPS.

teviko.6049:

BrunoBRS.5178:

teviko.6049:

Ah…I see a little more where you are coming from.

I like skill, I strive to be better and better with each pass until everything is innate. I achieved that very early on with my mesmer.

However, I like filling roles. I like being a cleric in XX game, or a sorc in XX game, or a tank in XX game. If me and my friends play DPS, then we will find someone who is happy enough to play the tank/healer that we lack. For us, it sthe socialization aspect.

there’s room for both kinds of games, just not within the same game. like i said, if you like the trinity, there are plenty of games that use it as the foundation of the combat.

it’s just that GW2 is not one of them, and trying to restructure it to become one would break PvP, WvW, dungeons, and overall PvE in one swoop, as all of that has been designed with the “no trinity” idea in mind.

To which I have gone and done. I play another game currently, and the balance with classes is so well achieved, its..well, engaging. I can’t be happier with the game i currently play.

I know GW2 isn’t one of them, but again, what I listed is what my vision of how they were going to accomplish “anyone can fill anyone elses role”. I didn’t hear, until much,much,much later that there was no holy trinity, or at least, it was explained to me that: anyone could tank, anyone could DPS, anyone could heal, anyone could support, thus eliminating the ‘need’ for the holy trinity. (Not that there would BE NO holy trinity) In otherwords, you don’t need a warrior, a monk and a thief as the foundation of your group. (I know monks don’t exist)

From my perspective, GW2 did not achieve this. The only role that is #1 is DPS.

anyone can heal themselves. they never said anyone can be a healer. in fact, they were actively fighting “healer guardian” builds that popped during beta, causing a major nerf on plenty of healing skills.

they did, however, say that the “roles” play dynamically throughout combat. no one can tank for long, at some point the person holding the line so the other player can be rezzed by a third one will have to roll out of the way and let someone else fill their role. the combat is constantly moving.

as for not being able to have all roles in one, i’m pretty sure i can name an effective support and a DPS build for any class. crowd control is a bit harder, because that depends on what you consider CC (i for example think that any offensive fields can be used as CC).

guild wars 2 doesn’t have a healer nor tank, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t versatility in builds, or in how you play the game and enhance your team.

teviko.6049:

OP:

I dunno what you are suggesting???

Are you saying you want ‘icons’ for what is happening in combat?

i.e…if you are the ‘drawer’ (silly name for the current target of the mob) you want some sort of drawer icon to pop over their head so everyone knows that now <soandso> is now it, while one person gets a handy wrench above his head for being the aid man, and the rest get knives pointing to someone’s back as flankers?

RIght now, the game is pretty much set up, like this. What are you suggesting? If someone is getting hit, they probably run around with their head cut off until they get downed, the others will be doing as much damage in whatever capacity they can, and if anyone goes down, whoever is rezzing them kinda full-fills the ‘aid-man’ capacity. We’ll call it combat medic for now…

I’m just not sure what this suggestion is trying to…suggest

Did i say the game need to change? NO, and never, i like GW2 combat system.

This is a CONCEPT where roles are still exist in GW2, but not the same Tank/healer/DPS roles. Here is the inspiration about, from the army squad. When there is a fire team (4 members), the first soldier is automatically assign as “Pointman” in order to lead the way, this is a role in the team, the last soldier will need to over watch the team’s back, this is his role; when there is a need to turn around, the last soldier will become the pointman, and the original pointman have to cover the teams back. This is where the role switching concept comes. On the other hand, U.S. soldier manual listed the most popular yet effective simple tactics, one team storm the enemy front, drawing attention and suppressing while the 2nd team strafe around and flank the enemy, hitting them from the side. But according to the situation, both team role is able to swap. Why because both team members got the same training, they are able to do both suppress and flanking role.

Same tactics apply to GW2, the drawer is the suppressing team while the flanker are the flank team, and this is just a GW2 version of basic military tactics, whatever name you want to call, fine. Our guild use this system to communicate our build and role in the party, and it is far more understanding than the damage-control-support introduced by Anet.

Why?

Because the focus of the DAF system is targeting on building our cha with 3 elements 1) ability to stay alive when aggro 2) deal damage and CC 3) team support, and the priority order of these 3 elements. On the other hand, Damage-control-support <— can you see any sigh of survivability. Nope.

For example, if a party with every member is plain flanker (full glass cannon no support), it is not a good party as their survivability is low, but i can’t tell if they are actually good skilled player where they can dps down everything nice and easy. But you will never know one player’s skill anyway without playing together.

This is not a concept for ones already understand the GW2 combat system and make dungeon a joke players. This is a concept for role building beyond the holy trinity.

So please, it is not asking a fix or change, it is for communication purpose, role playing purpose.

I’m confused. But when it comes down to it, I am very happy with the way GW2’s dungeon system is right now and am very glad that Anet has no intention of changing it. lol

@teviko: you are reiterating over and over again how you love roles and other types of games – and you actually went to play those games again. Which is perfectly fine. But what you are doing here is antagonizing anyone who does not share your opinion on games apparently for the sheer sake of it and hijacking a thread that had been rather neat and informative. Congratulations.

I don’t get this spamming 1 mentality
Mine is on auto cast !

Oh and for the record i love the concept gw 2 is using.

Algreg.3629:

@teviko: you are reiterating over and over again how you love roles and other types of games – and you actually went to play those games again. Which is perfectly fine. But what you are doing here is antagonizing anyone who does not share your opinion on games apparently for the sheer sake of it and hijacking a thread that had been rather neat and informative. Congratulations.

I said, in one of my posts, that I put this post here because the threads would either get merged, or one would get deleted due to..repetativeness.

Yes, I have made my post clear, and when I asked what the OP was suggesting, all he did was yell at me.

I am just not sure what he is ‘calling’ for, and when asked, all ‘he’ is doing is saying the same thing about how he doesn’t want a holy trinity, but he wants roles to be…defined? I’m just not sure, it seems he is not suggesting anything, other than something to denote the current players’ deemed position at any given time.

It works for his guild, which is great, not too many run guilds or jump in other people’s vents to coordinate.

I’m just not so sure what it is he is suggesting to achieve.

As for my ‘suggestion’ it is open for discussion. No one is discussing it. People are using it as a platform to ‘rail’ against the Holy trinity without taking the time to read the discussion and perhaps think it over.

People are just: “I hate the holy trinity….NEXT!”

teviko.6049:

Algreg.3629:

@teviko: you are reiterating over and over again how you love roles and other types of games – and you actually went to play those games again. Which is perfectly fine. But what you are doing here is antagonizing anyone who does not share your opinion on games apparently for the sheer sake of it and hijacking a thread that had been rather neat and informative. Congratulations.

I said, in one of my posts, that I put this post here because the threads would either get merged, or one would get deleted due to..repetativeness.

Yes, I have made my post clear, and when I asked what the OP was suggesting, all he did was yell at me.

I am just not sure what he is ‘calling’ for, and when asked, all ‘he’ is doing is saying the same thing about how he doesn’t want a holy trinity, but he wants roles to be…defined? I’m just not sure, it seems he is not suggesting anything, other than something to denote the current players’ deemed position at any given time.

It works for his guild, which is great, not too many run guilds or jump in other people’s vents to coordinate.

I’m just not so sure what it is he is suggesting to achieve.

As for my ‘suggestion’ it is open for discussion. No one is discussing it. People are using it as a platform to ‘rail’ against the Holy trinity without taking the time to read the discussion and perhaps think it over.

People are just: “I hate the holy trinity….NEXT!”

It’s likely because most people here are happy with the current dungeoning system and don’t wish to see any changes. We are 2 months into the game- the herd has been thinned. The people left are new players or those who honestly enjoy the mechanics of the game. Finding many people who would want a drastic change to something most people here seem to love will be difficult.

You can do everything you wrote with any number of trios without changing a thing gamewise. Just respec the members of the trio the way you want.

Why ask ANet to change the very tenet that is so specific to their vision of GW2?

We don’t necessarily need trinity, but encounters need to be designed better to respect the skills and mechanics at hand and require coordination.

The sum of everyone’s dps isn’t coordination. Combo-fields are optional at best. There are really very few encounters that require a coordinated effort where we need to chain a particular effect or have people doing different things at the same time to win. The coordination is more to make certain aspects of the encounter more predictable and thusly easier to overcome; Phase 1 Giganticus and certain Subject Alpha encounters ring a bell? It’s not like say “we need 2 people over here to do A, while 2 people are over here doing B, with the last guy going back and forth because we need to kill these two mobs at approximately the same time or they’ll just rez one another (stealing a WoW example, but just illustrating the coordination point)”…

Actually a good example of coordination in GW2 is Arah story mode with the cannons where you have some people doing damage the dragons and others killing mobs… It’s not necessarily a perfect example, but the idea that folks are doing different things in a coordinated effort. If I’m not shooting the dragon with a cannon, then I’m doing what I can to keep the people still on the cannons healed/protected in whatever capacity my class can do that.