Guild Wars 2

I had an experience similar to OP but not as bad.

My partner and I opened a CoF instance to do P1 and we posted on LFG for 3 pugs.

Not long after they joined, our connexion crashes but only for a moment so we are back in the game quickly (under a minute).

When we log back in; we are still in the party and just in time to see the three others kick us.

It wasn’t a big deal since we only started, but it’s still insulting that you get a party going and get booted of your own party and then you have to rebuild another party.

It’s not true that we don’t need party leaders. There is always someone leading and most groups expect to have someone leading them. That’s the reason you join a party instead of creating your own: so that you can follow, sit back and not think to much.

If anything, either you agree or not with having party leaders, we have to agree that Anet needs to look at options regarding parties. The situation is not good at the moment and no one can disagree to this because all the negative posts speak for themselves.

My 2 coppers.

Nadya.4250:

But that sucks, I get punished because I’m an experienced player… I’ve been with Guild wars from first game to this day, but this honestly first time I felt this mistreated. I feel so frustrated with this.

I’m sorry that happened to you, I feel your pain as this has happened to me many times while selling Arah or trying to explain tactics to pugs which is why I stopped or if I do sell to make sure I have 3 spot holders so this cannot happen and why I kick pugs who join without reading LFG or listening. Unfortunately, that’s life and there’s nothing you can do about it but report them.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Honestly, in order to overcome the base issue here (people) the only way to curb abuse would be to start imposing stricter limitations on what players can and cant do. To better control what is considered acceptable behavior. At which point we start straying into other issues…

If the problem is people the perfect solution would be to remove them …(GW1 heroes/mercenaries).

Lady Minuit.3186:

That’s the reason you join a party instead of creating your own: so that you can follow, sit back and not think to much.

If everyone created their own party there would be nothing but single person parties and no group would ever get formed.

Khisanth.2948:

Lady Minuit.3186:

That’s the reason you join a party instead of creating your own: so that you can follow, sit back and not think to much.

If everyone created their own party there would be nothing but single person parties and no group would ever get formed.

Some people like to make the group and control the party, others like to join and follow. That’s pretty simple. There will always be both. Don’t worry about that.

The point is to give the power back to the person making the party.

Lady Minuit.3186:

Khisanth.2948:

Lady Minuit.3186:

That’s the reason you join a party instead of creating your own: so that you can follow, sit back and not think to much.

If everyone created their own party there would be nothing but single person parties and no group would ever get formed.

Some people like to make the group and control the party, others like to join and follow. That’s pretty simple. There will always be both. Don’t worry about that.

The point is to give the power back to the person making the party.

The point is that there are more than one reason people join parties.

Khisanth.2948:

Lady Minuit.3186:

Khisanth.2948:

Lady Minuit.3186:

That’s the reason you join a party instead of creating your own: so that you can follow, sit back and not think to much.

If everyone created their own party there would be nothing but single person parties and no group would ever get formed.

Some people like to make the group and control the party, others like to join and follow. That’s pretty simple. There will always be both. Don’t worry about that.

The point is to give the power back to the person making the party.

The point is that there are more than one reason people join parties.

Ok but that doesn’t matter that’s really beside the point, which is need more group options.

Nadya.4250:

My friend and I started Arah P2, legitimately duo-ing to see how far we can get.
We got to Lupi and then realized we needed help.
We posted LFG asking for experienced players as in 3k ap or more.
We wanted to finish up because it was near 2am pacific and we shouldn’t have stayed up that late anyway.
3 people join, 2 ele & 1 necro all under 3k ap, I let them know that I really don’t feel up to teaching the run this late at night and can they bring heavy armored classes…
Instead I get voted up for kick by the 3 new people who are apparently friends…
My friend didn’t say anything so they kept him, they died on the way to Lupi (the way point is up, but they’re just so inexperienced that they think they have to run to Lupi from the beginning)
Anyway my friend mentions the fact that they should know to use the way point and they kick him also.
A couple of minutes we notice them standing just outside the dungeon, so I confront them, they say oh yea we just left, sorry for kicking you, want to do the path from the beginning with us….
So my instance I worked so hard for is just lost, because I have no way of holding it.
This is so incredibly unfair, if party kick was still the old way, my friend and I would have kicked them before it got that far, but because there was not 3 of us, we had no rights as dungeon starters ANET PLEASE FIX THIS INJUSTICE!!

The first issue here is that you think only players of a certain arbitrary ap amount are experienced.

I think some of the earlier post where making some interesting suggestions. What if its still a pure vote but the vote gets weighted based on how much you’ve participated in the dungeon. Late comers still get a say but just not equal to the people who’ve actually done most of the work.

Lazuli.2098:

Hopefully the upcoming change to dungeons so that they scale to any size party, 1 – 5, will solve all these issues. The OP will not need to call in 3 more members to the party to finish the dungeon. Players who do not have a band of friends or belong to a guild will not need to form a party with possible jerks and trolls.

First, please site where this dungeon scaling is coming from… As far as I heard its only for the conversion of arah story to the final mission of personal story instead of a 5 man disaster of a “dungeon.”

Secondly there are lots of crazy ideas here, including my favorite, is any one in lfg can join any ones group. So your doing CoF, I am doing TA, but I will join your group, because I don’t care about your listing, your just available… This community is not ready to have a real discussion on changes needed to LFG (just look through old threads.)

Personally I like the idea of party leaders, however the solution could be to make group rules editable. As in we have the option of starting the group as a dictatorship or democracy, and instance owner or none. Then over a period of several months Anet could presumably pull some statistics as to the “least trolled” setup and move forward with the best system. This will never crate an actual perfect system, because with entitled people around, and people who have multiple accounts so they can troll on one, or just plain kitten play these games, it is going to not work ideally for any(/every)one.

So instead of getting peoples hopes up with a system that half of us will like, and then removing that system, lets just keep with what we have and understand it sucks. We can follow the rule if we pug, bring the majority, or expect to be screwed… then if your not, something good happened in this game for once.

Deedrick.4372:

Lazuli.2098:

Hopefully the upcoming change to dungeons so that they scale to any size party, 1 – 5, will solve all these issues. The OP will not need to call in 3 more members to the party to finish the dungeon. Players who do not have a band of friends or belong to a guild will not need to form a party with possible jerks and trolls.

First, please site where this dungeon scaling is coming from… As far as I heard its only for the conversion of arah story to the final mission of personal story instead of a 5 man disaster of a “dungeon.”

Secondly there are lots of crazy ideas here, including my favorite, is any one in lfg can join any ones group. So your doing CoF, I am doing TA, but I will join your group, because I don’t care about your listing, your just available… This community is not ready to have a real discussion on changes needed to LFG (just look through old threads.)

Personally I like the idea of party leaders, however the solution could be to make group rules editable. As in we have the option of starting the group as a dictatorship or democracy, and instance owner or none. Then over a period of several months Anet could presumably pull some statistics as to the “least trolled” setup and move forward with the best system. This will never crate an actual perfect system, because with entitled people around, and people who have multiple accounts so they can troll on one, or just plain kitten play these games, it is going to not work ideally for any(/every)one.

So instead of getting peoples hopes up with a system that half of us will like, and then removing that system, lets just keep with what we have and understand it sucks. We can follow the rule if we pug, bring the majority, or expect to be screwed… then if your not, something good happened in this game for once.

The ONLY dungeon the devs have talked about recently is Arah Story Mode. Because it is the final personal story step. Arah story mode is going away. And a new final personal story chapter is being made to replace it.

You lost me at “Experienced players only” in your message to those joining up. Sorry but I’m the eternal noob as I dungeon seldom enough I have very little auto memorized and the “We insist you have it all memorized” gang have me so disenchanted with going in that… I seldom go. Though I will do my best to obey and stick to plan if given a plan and idea of what’s happening.

Also hate skippin’ crap… I wanna kill it all. ;p
But that’s another thing. I wont if I’m told not to. That trash mob could drop a precursor… You never know.

Anyway…

If you had advertised “Help any heavies- we will handhold new folk.” You might have gotten eager beavers ready for their first try or another try that would have stuck by through with you through thick and thin till it was done… and then been grateful enough for it afterward to tip.

I have 2 rules to tippin in this game. Jump puzzles and diving goggles… Tip your mesmer. Dungeons… Tip your leader… or whatever poor slob died the most so he/she can repair. Usually this is sent back… but sometimes kept. At all times I assume it makes the person feel good.

You had a bad experience. It happens… it happens more… much more in other games. Honestly.

Hope you next run is more fun and avoids thoughtless players.

As to the system. It’s all Anet can do I guess. The fairest possible….

However they might try programming that newcomers to a party should not be able to instigate a “kick” vote for at least a half hour. They can vote on one but not start one.

That would be reasonable. If it’s possible to program….

My two coppers. Happy hunting all.

First let me admit that I did not read all of the posts on this thread. That said let me give some suggestions

Make a party leader, they have the kick ability, no one else in party does. In the case of someone going afk in the middle of a run, even if it is the party leader, then all drop party then immediately reform the party.

As long as everyone who is not afk reforms the party then they can continue on. Give it a 5 minute reset. Anyone not back in the party within 5 minutes gets kicked from the dungeon. In the case of it being the leader who afk’d then whoever reforms the party becomes the new leader.

In the case of 2 friends starting a party then 2-3 others joining then voting the leader and his friend out, this would stop that. Also make it so that if 2 friends start a party and 2-3 others join, not only can they not vote the first 2 out, if they leave and try to reform their 2-3 into a new party to continue it will not work as long as the original 2 are still in a party. I hope that makes sense.

I admit this is not a perfect solution but it would put a stop to people joining a party then voting out and kicking the one who started the party after part of the run is done. To be honest I don’t think that there is a perfect solution but I think this is the best that can be done.

Argo’s 5 min grace period is not a bad idea…..

Freaniathem.8672:

Despite the 3 pages of venting that seem to be going on, I cannot even remember if I have ever been kicked from a LFG group…and I mostly run in LFGs for fractals (even 50s) and dungeons. I know I have quit parties with toxic wanna-be leaders. I have also helped friends/people on occasion in Arah too and have never had an instance ‘stolen.’

What I can tell you is that I remember all too well having to redo fractals when, under the old system, the friend that started the instance DC’d. Since ‘aussie-net’ was pretty unreliable then (not sure about now), I started initiating instances but even I would suffer an occasional DC. That is why I really like the new system the way it is now.

My suggestion is don’t let it put you off, Nadya. Despite the occasional troll there are a LOT of great people in game. Some lessons are tough but focus on the positive. It is a game after all and we should be having fun. ^^

Only time I’ve ever been kicked from a dungeon party was when a friend started the instance (back when it mattered) of SE. Got some pugs in to fill it out, lfg mentioned it was a casual run, even mentioned in party chat before we got going. Pugs pulling kitten too early, getting impatient when we take our time, etc. Finally, before the boss where you fight the 3 golems, idiot pugs run in and die to the golems. Twice. Finally we get them down. I’ve had enough, and the following conversation happens:

me: stop running ahead and aggroing stuff before we’re ready.
pug: i dont have time to be patient, you’re taking too long.
me: feel free to leave the party then. you joined a casual run and have been told that several times.
^pugs think they’re smart by kicking me for pointing out the obvious
/w friend: welp, time to do what we discussed.
from friend: i’m gonna love this so much.

Friend proceeds to “finish” the dungeon with the pugs, then in one of the biggest and most hilarious kitten moves I’ve ever seen or orchestrated, leaves the party (forcing an instance closure) just before the boss is killed, denying the pugs a run. Repartied with my friend, saw the pugs outside the dungeon and gave them a parting “kitteners would have had a finished run already if you werent impatient little kids.”

We proceed to pug again and get the dungeon finished in about 15-20 minutes. Best part? The first pug run took over twice that.

I had a somewhat more relevant thought, but it got lost while remembering that hilarious run.

Lady Minuit.3186:

When we log back in; we are still in the party and just in time to see the three others kick us.

It wasn’t a big deal since we only started, but it’s still insulting that you get a party going and get booted of your own party and then you have to rebuild another party.

It’s not true that we don’t need party leaders. There is always someone leading and most groups expect to have someone leading them. That’s the reason you join a party instead of creating your own: so that you can follow, sit back and not think to much.

If anything, either you agree or not with having party leaders, we have to agree that Anet needs to look at options regarding parties. The situation is not good at the moment and no one can disagree to this because all the negative posts speak for themselves.

My 2 coppers.

One of your mistakes is assuming that was your party. That’s not how this game works. That may be what you want, but no one owns a party. And not everyone is expecting that. You claim all parties need a leader, but I’ve done so many PUG runs where there’s not even communication in terms of what to do. Maybe idle chat, but nothing about the dungeon. Everyone knows what they are doing. No one is leading. Maybe you need a leader to get through a dungeon, but a lot of us do not.

I can disagree with you about the situation on parties. Until you prove to me that a few 100 complainers on the forum reflects the 100000s (if not millions) of active players in the game, I’m going to assume the only people that are upset are the ones posting – a very small community. I have literally never been kicked from a PUG party, and I typically PUG dozens of runs a week. Your situation, or the situation of a few dozen, or even a few 100, does not speak for me, or anyone I know.

Deedrick.4372:

Lazuli.2098:

Hopefully the upcoming change to dungeons so that they scale to any size party, 1 – 5, will solve all these issues. The OP will not need to call in 3 more members to the party to finish the dungeon. Players who do not have a band of friends or belong to a guild will not need to form a party with possible jerks and trolls.

First, please site where this dungeon scaling is coming from… As far as I heard its only for the conversion of arah story to the final mission of personal story instead of a 5 man disaster of a “dungeon.”
…

You are right. I just looked this up. I had misunderstood some comments posted in another thread. Sorry for the confusion. Too bad, I would love party scaling in dungeons.

I don’t really have a problem anymore, but I never pug without atleast a friend or two for the reason mentioned, it’s happened before and I never understood why we couldn’t have party leaders for dungeons. We’ll just keep spreading the false news that the gw2 community is the friendliest and everyone wants to train lvl 40s to do AC for the first time every daily run or perhaps a lvl 80 who wants to bring in their friend or two who are spec’d horribly and can’t read the message that says the group is a speed run group.

I used to love GW1 pugging with people for speed runs and just to screw around in general, when you had party structure, GW2 has just made me a very excluding person.

I think the idea someone suggested of letting us set up requested criteria like min AP, min lvl, and class required to be able to even join the party, would fix this issue all together.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Ashen.2907:

tramwajarz.2369:

When I create a party and make requirements for it, it is my right to moderate my own party. Those people who joined me agreed to be my guests.

You are mistaken. You have no such right.

Anet owns the game and they do not grant you that right. In fact they have specifically chosen to deny the existence of that supposed right.

Where do people agree to be your guests? Is there a form they sign?

your wrong he does have that right, it is an intrinsic agreement of entering the party, its very simple to understand that you are entering someone Else’s party, dont over analyze it

Nope. The only people who get to assign rights on private property are the owners of that property. Here that is Anet and they have specifically denied the existence of the right you claim. Cough up a few tens of millions of dollars (or more) to buy Anet and GW2 and you can have the right you claim.

Duke Nukem.6783:

the instance owner has every right to be a “jerk”

I would not be surprised if this mentality is part of why the system changed to what we have now. If the instance owner system was being interpreted as license to violate the spirit of the ToS then no wonder it went away. Instance owners who believed that they had a right to be jerks are now reaping what they sowed.

Subutex.2416:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its like your car breaks down and you need a lift to somewhere but when someone offers to take you, you tell them to get a different type of car. (not a perfect analogy since naturally those 3 benefited from helping him more then someone giving you a lift would benefit) but still they’re helping him out and without help he is likely stuck. Why should he be entitled to any special treatment? (demanding stuff / Untouchable)

He would still be able to choose if he wanted to go in that car or not with that person (unlike LFG system) and it would be perfectly fine and normal if the driver went on his way leaving him behind. Picking him up, driving him all the way back to where he started, then leaving him there is not alright.

He could still chose to not use the LFG tool at all or even to leave the party. Also they didnt drive him back anywhere, they simply told him to get out once he acted in appropriately which is perfectly fine. Its the nature of the game that when you get off you’re sent at the start, not the action of the players themselves.

PistolWhip.2697:

@Galen Grey
You missed the whole point of him asking them to bring heavies. They were evidently new and would extend his 2 am dungeon trip even longer so he suggested they bring heavies as it would make the path doable. Why does he have to help 3 newer players in the middle of the night? Also he doesn’t have to start the dungeon earlier, he can play when he wants.

Evidently his duo didn’t go as planned, and he wanted 3 others to help them finish it so they could resume whatever practice another day. Instead, thanks to the party system, 3 players came in, stole his instance then squandered it by leaving anyway which is even more infuriating.

Just because LFG is there, it doesn’t mean you have to accept playing with anyone. When did this become a thing? If a matchmaking service set you up with random people you’d have to date every single one? No, you can pick and choose, LFG is like said above a platform to ALLOW co-operation, not an obligation to co-operate.

Yes Elitists who are wholly too extreme exist, but the opposite does also,which are ‘dowhatIlike’ players who not only refuse to fulfill set requirements but also choose to be carried by those Elitists. They are both as rotten as each other, the rest of us shouldn’t have to suffer for their BS.

Since when not using heavies automatically means you’re new and inexperianced? He asked for heavies in the LFG request itself. Yes the 3 who joined turned out to be newbies which I’d bet is also a result of requesting heavies, I mean what would you expect at 2am ? He was clearly targeting speed runners but at 2am those are still active will likely be with their own group finding 3 actually looking for a group to join at that hour is kinda hard. Others who are not speed runners will likely stay away from groups with such requests.. I wouldnt join even if playing a heavy at the moment for a lot of reasons, cant speak for all player base obviously but I’d be surprised if I am the only one. Then you have the newbies who likely didnt even know the reason behind the request.

Yes that is exactly what it means. If you decide to play with others you decide to play with others. There is a certain etiquette to follow so to speak and respecting others is part of it. Imagine if this is PvP instead of PvE would you imagine someone starting a match and complaining with players who dont get heavies or who even leaving mid match cause they dont get heavies? It would be unacceptable so why is it okey in PvE?
Everyone has a right to play and the LFG is a system to get people together and form groups when they dont have their own group to play with. Its not a system to help people discriminate on their own believes of what other should or shouldnt be doing. Someone who plays a necro can finish a dungeon just as well as someone who plays a berserker warrior. Sure they’ll not finish as quickly but hey if he was in such a hurry why did he duo the thing in the first place?

Nadya.4250:

Thank you, though I can’t tell if you’re calling me out on being Elitest, I don’t feel like I am, and don’t think it was elitist of me to know my limitations, like the ability to carry 3 inexpereanced light armored players in Arah. (Arah is not my beach yet, still trying to tame her)

Also I do take on newbies to dungeons I know well and am willing to teach, even this expereance doesn’t turn me off from that, but when I don’t feel like carrying/teaching I think I should be able to find other players of similar skill set to mine.

P.S. Not like it matters very much, I, OP is a lady not a dude.

Thing is you specifically requested heavies in the LFG request itself hence your issue wasnt really with inexperianced light armored players your issue was with all light armored players. Thats what I feel was wrong and most likely what got you kicked out from the party. Its entirely possible to finish arah in a party full of light armors without issue.. been there done that myself.

Now maybe you had no elitist intentions at all, only you can say that. Problem is when you’re taking the position that anyone in a light armor needs “carrying/teaching” and dont have “similar skill set to mine” thats the perception you give off.

I have seen this too. I wasn’t the one getting kicked but 3 others in Group voted to kick someone just as end boss was almost dead just because they had some tween drama between them with the person they kicked. Happens alot with elite speed runners I’ve been told. They kick people for whatever resaon they see fit. That’s why I stopped joining pugs and now alot of the times Dungeons are content not playable to me. Unless I find enough people I know on at the same time to do a Dungeon with. I play odd times, so often I do not.

However I don’t see how switching to 2 votes to kick someone would solve this? In fact it would make it even easier to abuse.

I don’t like Instance/Dungeon owner mechanics either as if then the owner dc whole party will lose progress.

No idea what solution would be? 4 votes needed maybe? Could still be abused if you are that 1 person who joined.

Nadya.4250:

I think the idea someone suggested of letting us set up requested criteria like min AP, min lvl, and class required to be able to even join the party, would fix this issue all together.

This issue yes but it would create other issues like suddenly the game becoming very hostile to beginners. How many pugs allow chars less then level 80 in dungeons runs designed for lower level characters. imagine if people had the power to actually enforce that.

That suggestion goes against the core design of this game. Anet didnt remove the Trinity just for the fun of it but rather to be able to design a game thats inclusive of any class any player decides to play. If they implement that suggestion it would go a full 180 degree turn.

Phille.7684:

No idea what solution would be? 4 votes needed maybe? Could still be abused if you are that 1 person who joined.

4 votes is exactly as bad as 2 actually..

with 2 votes, 2 evil people can kick the 3
with 4 votes, 2 evil people can grief and no one can do anything about it.

Its just the same issue but from opposite sides of the mirror

Truth is there isnt a solution to the LFG issue.. its a compromise between a lot of different possibilities. You have to try balancing tools that help players deal with grief with not being able to use those same tools to cause grief.

Galen Grey.4709:

Nadya.4250:

Thank you, though I can’t tell if you’re calling me out on being Elitest, I don’t feel like I am, and don’t think it was elitist of me to know my limitations, like the ability to carry 3 inexpereanced light armored players in Arah. (Arah is not my beach yet, still trying to tame her)

Also I do take on newbies to dungeons I know well and am willing to teach, even this expereance doesn’t turn me off from that, but when I don’t feel like carrying/teaching I think I should be able to find other players of similar skill set to mine.

P.S. Not like it matters very much, I, OP is a lady not a dude.

Thing is you specifically requested heavies in the LFG request itself hence your issue wasnt really with inexperianced light armored players your issue was with all light armored players. Thats what I feel was wrong and most likely what got you kicked out from the party. Its entirely possible to finish arah in a party full of light armors without issue.. been there done that myself.

Now maybe you had no elitist intentions at all, only you can say that. Problem is when you’re taking the position that anyone in a light armor needs “carrying/teaching” and dont have “similar skill set to mine” thats the perception you give off.

You are taking two things that make one and splitting them up. Yes it is possible to finish a dungeon with light armored people, I’ve done it, but they were all above 10k ap and knew what the heck they were doing. The people that join the lfg were all under 3k ap and all light armored. But you can not tell me that it isn’t easier to do Arah with heavies vs. lights….. I mean I just must be playing some other game if that’s not true.

Nadya.4250:

You are taking two things that make one and splitting them up. Yes it is possible to finish a dungeon with light armored people, I’ve done it, but they were all above 10k ap and knew what the heck they were doing. The people that join the lfg were all under 3k ap and all light armored. But you can not tell me that it isn’t easier to do Arah with heavies vs. lights….. I mean I just must be playing some other game if that’s not true.

The 3 people that joined were inexperienced so much so they didnt finish it themselves, true but you didnt know that when you placed the ad on LFG.

Faster yes, Easier? I wouldnt say its easier personally… I dont think there isnt anything as easy as my necro to play. Can take a ton of damage, can clean lots of conditions and is constantly healing. Yes you need to be experianced to properly play the class but it provides a very big safety net making it pretty easy to play.

A majority vote is actually pretty fair. If you don’t want that to happen, then invite two friends to come along with you so that they can never get three votes.

The real problem here is that dungeons are badly designed. Players should always get rewarded whether they completely finish a dungeon or not, based upon how much progress they made through the dungeon. In other words, it should be a guaranteed reward based upon damage taken, damage dealt, support level (damage mitigated/healed on allies), mobs killed, bosses killed, and areas cleared.

NOT skip all mobs, cheese all encounters and get the prize.

But ArenaNet will never implement such a system because they don’t know how to balance it so that it doesn’t get abused. So they just avoid it instead.

Hannelore.8153:

A majority vote is actually pretty fair. If you don’t want that to happen, then invite two friends to come along with you so that they can never get three votes.

The real problem here is that dungeons are badly designed. Players should always get rewarded whether they completely finish a dungeon or not, based upon how much progress they made through the dungeon. In other words, it should be a guaranteed reward based upon damage taken, damage dealt, support level (damage mitigated/healed on allies), mobs killed, bosses killed, and areas cleared.

NOT skip all mobs, cheese all encounters and get the prize.

But ArenaNet will never implement such a system because they don’t know how to balance it so that it doesn’t get abused. So they just avoid it instead.

This is an excellent Idea.

I never had issues with this since I am running dungeons almost exclusively with guildies. But I see the issues and I just wonder why they didn’t implement the 10 year old system in WoW where there is ONE party leader who can decide to kick and if he leaves the next one gets it. It’s so much easier and would prevent everything mentioned here.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I never had issues with this since I am running dungeons almost exclusively with guildies. But I see the issues and I just wonder why they didn’t implement the 10 year old system in WoW where there is ONE party leader who can decide to kick and if he leaves the next one gets it. It’s so much easier and would prevent everything mentioned here.

for the same reason why they increased the kick vote from 2 to 3 because that opens up the possibility of abuse like the party leader kicking a pug right before the end to give the credit to a guildy, friend or also stranger who pays him for the privilege.

Yes… that is true. But at least it is not possible to kick the one who started it, unless he gives the leadership to another who kicks him.

There is no perfect solution and you have to blame the players who do that. It’s like in real life: it is not allowed to kill someone by law, but people still do it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Subutex.2416:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its like your car breaks down and you need a lift to somewhere but when someone offers to take you, you tell them to get a different type of car. (not a perfect analogy since naturally those 3 benefited from helping him more then someone giving you a lift would benefit) but still they’re helping him out and without help he is likely stuck. Why should he be entitled to any special treatment? (demanding stuff / Untouchable)

He would still be able to choose if he wanted to go in that car or not with that person (unlike LFG system) and it would be perfectly fine and normal if the driver went on his way leaving him behind. Picking him up, driving him all the way back to where he started, then leaving him there is not alright.

He could still chose to not use the LFG tool at all or even to leave the party. Also they didnt drive him back anywhere, they simply told him to get out once he acted in appropriately which is perfectly fine. Its the nature of the game that when you get off you’re sent at the start, not the action of the players themselves.

Did you even read the part where he duoed the instance until Lupi and was kicked by 3 jerks who joined him after, who didn’t do kitten?

Subutex.2416:

Galen Grey.4709:

Subutex.2416:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its like your car breaks down and you need a lift to somewhere but when someone offers to take you, you tell them to get a different type of car. (not a perfect analogy since naturally those 3 benefited from helping him more then someone giving you a lift would benefit) but still they’re helping him out and without help he is likely stuck. Why should he be entitled to any special treatment? (demanding stuff / Untouchable)

He would still be able to choose if he wanted to go in that car or not with that person (unlike LFG system) and it would be perfectly fine and normal if the driver went on his way leaving him behind. Picking him up, driving him all the way back to where he started, then leaving him there is not alright.

He could still chose to not use the LFG tool at all or even to leave the party. Also they didnt drive him back anywhere, they simply told him to get out once he acted in appropriately which is perfectly fine. Its the nature of the game that when you get off you’re sent at the start, not the action of the players themselves.

Did you even read the part where he duoed the instance until Lupi and was kicked by 3 jerks who joined him after, who didn’t do kitten?

Yes I did but I dont see why it should change things. It was her choice to start the pug at lupi rather then at the start. Would it be any different if say someone starts a pug at the start and then at lupi asks them to change to heavies or leave? wouldnt in that case the 3 asked to leave be in their rights to actually defend themselves?

Dont forget that rule number 1 in the code of conduct is
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/
“While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.”

Asking people to play your way or leave is at the very least against the spirit of that rule.

Of course so is what they did not saying they acted correctly by kicking her out.

All I am saying is this could probably have been avoided if no demands were made for players to play the way OP wanted rather then how they wanted to play themselves.

Galen Grey.4709:

Of course so is what they did not saying they acted correctly by kicking her out.

But that’s what this thread is about. This mechanic allows for people to do this and it shouldn’t, he should not lose his instance progress.

The amount of self entitlement to steal other people progress, ignore their requirement and demanding of being carried for new players is amazing. No wonder this game is growing a bias of the worst community in every MMO. So called casual (lazy) people in this game have no respect for other people efforts. They steal, abuse and dare to call people who put an effort in their play to be elitists. They don’t care to learn how combat works or ask how to defeat a boss. They just come into instance and expect to be rewarded.

This is where the designers of this game failed. With their design they punish people who actually make this game easier for scrubs yet reward kitteners who expect everything to be given on silver plate.

New generations of players are [insert you favourite insults, they’ll fit]

I did a level 1 fractal for the daily, my only problem was i got a group of 4 people all under 800AP and they didnt like my poor english, so they kicked me for poor grammar. What if i had not of been primarily english as many people arent in GW2. Not the only incident. I got kicked from a dungeon because a group of guildies didnt like my characters name.

AP being a requirement isn’t a good fix imo. Anet has stated, they would rather not segregate their dungeon community and this is one of the reasons why we don’t have Hard Mode dungeons (like in GW1).

reapex.8546:

AP being a requirement isn’t a good fix imo. Anet has stated, they would rather not segregate their dungeon community and this is one of the reasons why we don’t have Hard Mode dungeons (like in GW1).

Ap measure is stupid, I agree.
But as I wrote earlier there should be a requirements filter (similar to TP filter maybe?) where you choose dungeon path, level, profession, gear rarirty and maybe gear prefix (however I dunno about last one because some people mix gear) so only people that fill the req can see LFG

Subutex.2416:

Galen Grey.4709:

Of course so is what they did not saying they acted correctly by kicking her out.

But that’s what this thread is about. This mechanic allows for people to do this and it shouldn’t, he should not lose his instance progress.

The thread is about the party mechanic being unfair and its not. Starting the party / doing progress doesnt make you immune to the rules. If you act inappropriately the kicking mechanic allow members of the party to defend themselves. There is nothing unfair about that.

tramwajarz.2369:

The amount of self entitlement to steal other people progress, ignore their requirement and demanding of being carried for new players is amazing. No wonder this game is growing a bias of the worst community in every MMO. So called casual (lazy) people in this game have no respect for other people efforts. They steal, abuse and dare to call people who put an effort in their play to be elitists. They don’t care to learn how combat works or ask how to defeat a boss. They just come into instance and expect to be rewarded.

This is where the designers of this game failed. With their design they punish people who actually make this game easier for scrubs yet reward kitteners who expect everything to be given on silver plate.

New generations of players are [insert you favourite insults, they’ll fit]

Not a single person has said anything much less pushed for stealing progress. I am sorry but what you’re trying to do is twist what happened into a narrative that is trying to justify the person creating the party acting inappropriately.

Galen Grey.4709:

Subutex.2416:

Galen Grey.4709:

Of course so is what they did not saying they acted correctly by kicking her out.

But that’s what this thread is about. This mechanic allows for people to do this and it shouldn’t, he should not lose his instance progress.

The thread is about the party mechanic being unfair and its not. Starting the party / doing progress doesnt make you immune to the rules. If you act inappropriately the kicking mechanic allow members of the party to defend themselves. There is nothing unfair about that.

The unfair part is that OP was kicked from his own instance. There is NO party mechanic in GW2. There is a party and a lfg tool. Both are underdeveloped and open to abuses.

The OP was robbed from his effort, progress and reward. Defending those three abusing rats that kicked him from his own party makes you look very very suspicious to me.

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

The amount of self entitlement to steal other people progress, ignore their requirement and demanding of being carried for new players is amazing. No wonder this game is growing a bias of the worst community in every MMO. So called casual (lazy) people in this game have no respect for other people efforts. They steal, abuse and dare to call people who put an effort in their play to be elitists. They don’t care to learn how combat works or ask how to defeat a boss. They just come into instance and expect to be rewarded.

This is where the designers of this game failed. With their design they punish people who actually make this game easier for scrubs yet reward kitteners who expect everything to be given on silver plate.

New generations of players are [insert you favourite insults, they’ll fit]

Not a single person has said anything much less pushed for stealing progress. I am sorry but what you’re trying to do is twist what happened into a narrative that is trying to justify the person creating the party acting inappropriately.

What you are doing mister is trying to absolve obvious abusers and make OP look bad. This is suspicious.

tramwajarz.2369:

reapex.8546:

AP being a requirement isn’t a good fix imo. Anet has stated, they would rather not segregate their dungeon community and this is one of the reasons why we don’t have Hard Mode dungeons (like in GW1).

Ap measure is stupid, I agree.
But as I wrote earlier there should be a requirements filter (similar to TP filter maybe?) where you choose dungeon path, level, profession, gear rarirty and maybe gear prefix (however I dunno about last one because some people mix gear) so only people that fill the req can see LFG

Please consider the consequences of what you’re asking for. This would at best create long queue times for new players, at worst make it impossible for them to find a group for a dungeon.

People who like to play a necro/ranger will find it hard to find a group.

What about people who dont go for ascended gear or maybe not even full exotics?

This change will drive people away! and for what? so that people get to finish a dungeon a few minutes quicker?

If you want a specific set of filters for your team create your own group. The LFG tool is there so people can find other people to play with. Restricting their pool based on filters would make the system worst not better.

tramwajarz.2369:

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

The amount of self entitlement to steal other people progress, ignore their requirement and demanding of being carried for new players is amazing. No wonder this game is growing a bias of the worst community in every MMO. So called casual (lazy) people in this game have no respect for other people efforts. They steal, abuse and dare to call people who put an effort in their play to be elitists. They don’t care to learn how combat works or ask how to defeat a boss. They just come into instance and expect to be rewarded.

This is where the designers of this game failed. With their design they punish people who actually make this game easier for scrubs yet reward kitteners who expect everything to be given on silver plate.

New generations of players are [insert you favourite insults, they’ll fit]

Not a single person has said anything much less pushed for stealing progress. I am sorry but what you’re trying to do is twist what happened into a narrative that is trying to justify the person creating the party acting inappropriately.

What you are doing mister is trying to absolve obvious abusers and make OP look bad. This is suspicious.

what abuse obvious or otherwise did they do exactly? They kicked OP before OP kicked them, It was an ugly move sure but justifiable.

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

reapex.8546:

AP being a requirement isn’t a good fix imo. Anet has stated, they would rather not segregate their dungeon community and this is one of the reasons why we don’t have Hard Mode dungeons (like in GW1).

Ap measure is stupid, I agree.
But as I wrote earlier there should be a requirements filter (similar to TP filter maybe?) where you choose dungeon path, level, profession, gear rarirty and maybe gear prefix (however I dunno about last one because some people mix gear) so only people that fill the req can see LFG

Please consider the consequences of what you’re asking for. This would at best create long queue times for new players, at worst make it impossible for them to find a group for a dungeon.

People who like to play a necro/ranger will find it hard to find a group.

What about people who dont go for ascended gear or maybe not even full exotics?

This change will drive people away! and for what? so that people get to finish a dungeon a few minutes quicker?

If you want a specific set of filters for your team create your own group. The LFG tool is there so people can find other people to play with. Restricting their pool based on filters would make the system worst not better.

New players are already being kicked with rangers and necros alike. And answer for them would be the same as it is now – create your own “everybody welcome” group.

You act like there are 5 new players or that veterans are obligated to cater to them Knowledge bomb – they don’t have to, it’s not my job to carry a new player. I learned the game by myself and I don’t want to waste my time teaching others. There are people willing to teach and share knowledge, more power to them. It’s their choice to do so as my choice is to avoid and kick new/bad players on sight.

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

reapex.8546:

AP being a requirement isn’t a good fix imo. Anet has stated, they would rather not segregate their dungeon community and this is one of the reasons why we don’t have Hard Mode dungeons (like in GW1).

Ap measure is stupid, I agree.
But as I wrote earlier there should be a requirements filter (similar to TP filter maybe?) where you choose dungeon path, level, profession, gear rarirty and maybe gear prefix (however I dunno about last one because some people mix gear) so only people that fill the req can see LFG

Please consider the consequences of what you’re asking for. This would at best create long queue times for new players, at worst make it impossible for them to find a group for a dungeon.

People who like to play a necro/ranger will find it hard to find a group.

What about people who dont go for ascended gear or maybe not even full exotics?

This change will drive people away! and for what? so that people get to finish a dungeon a few minutes quicker?

If you want a specific set of filters for your team create your own group. The LFG tool is there so people can find other people to play with. Restricting their pool based on filters would make the system worst not better.

This. Either ask friends/guildies if you don’t want to “take the risk” of asking strangers to your party. Does it suck that OP lost their progress? Of course. Should they have understood that people joining is basically a blind grab bag? Yes. Assuming that AP = skill/ experience and denying people spots before even giving them a chance? Also dumb.

cocowoushi.7150:

Galen Grey.4709:

tramwajarz.2369:

reapex.8546:

AP being a requirement isn’t a good fix imo. Anet has stated, they would rather not segregate their dungeon community and this is one of the reasons why we don’t have Hard Mode dungeons (like in GW1).

Ap measure is stupid, I agree.
But as I wrote earlier there should be a requirements filter (similar to TP filter maybe?) where you choose dungeon path, level, profession, gear rarirty and maybe gear prefix (however I dunno about last one because some people mix gear) so only people that fill the req can see LFG

Please consider the consequences of what you’re asking for. This would at best create long queue times for new players, at worst make it impossible for them to find a group for a dungeon.

People who like to play a necro/ranger will find it hard to find a group.

What about people who dont go for ascended gear or maybe not even full exotics?

This change will drive people away! and for what? so that people get to finish a dungeon a few minutes quicker?

If you want a specific set of filters for your team create your own group. The LFG tool is there so people can find other people to play with. Restricting their pool based on filters would make the system worst not better.

This. Either ask friends/guildies if you don’t want to “take the risk” of asking strangers to your party. Does it suck that OP lost their progress? Of course. Should they have understood that people joining is basically a blind grab bag? Yes. Assuming that AP = skill/ experience and denying people spots before even giving them a chance? Also dumb.

It is a gamble only because there is no party system. There should be. People who open parties should be protected and have control over their parties.