Guild Wars 2

So, one of the things that GW2 did on launch was have these open world encoutners that were just zergs… no strategy, no tactics… just… show up.

ArenaNet seems to be willing to tweak that recipe now with the revamped Tequatl encounter… no way you are going to beat it without coordination.

My question is about rewards and more importantly, recognition.

It was mentioned that item skins unique to that boss will be available, which is something I believe should have been in from the start.

- How will coordinated play reward the team organizing it, vs. the passer-by who just tags the mob? Do they get a chance at the very same loot?

- Will a guild be able to somehow be recognized for defeating or at least driving the kill?

Probably not considering it requires the efforts of everyone on the server to cooperate to take it down. I’m sure there’ll be guilds that take credit for kills though.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Probably not considering it requires the efforts of everyone on the server to cooperate to take it down. I’m sure there’ll be guilds that take credit for kills though.

I think there should be a systemic mechanic that recognizes and rewards the coordinating guild somehow.

And I don’t think that everyone who just comes along to participate should be entitled to the same chance at the same rewards.

Zeldain.5710:

- How will coordinated play reward the team organizing it, vs. the passer-by who just tags the mob? Do they get a chance at the very same loot?

It won’t. Everyone is treated equally in the open world. If I solo a champion and you zerg it down with 100 people, we get the same rewards even though I put in 100x the effort and time. It’s not fair, but that’s the way it works.

Zeldain.5710:

- Will a guild be able to somehow be recognized for defeating or at least driving the kill?

Besides spamming chat about how you’re awesome like some guilds do, no. Unless you’re fielding 50+ people, you’re not really coordinating anything. There’s like 300 people in that zerg and they’re going to do whatever they want.

Individual or guild recognition would only lead to (even more) elitism. So IMHO there shouldn’t be any.

Why should people getting rewarded more for just being in a group when there are individuals who can work just as hard? Also something like this sounds like it would only benefit larger guilds and or inflate some egos.

They better reward players appropriately for their efforts. This isn’t WoW (not even close) so making it so only 1 player out of 80 gets something for their effort isn’t going to fly. If the encounter is fun, they’ll come back. If it sucks, no one will want to do it a second time regardless of the reward. If it’s another .0001% chance at a skin I’m going to pass.

Xaielao.8510:

Individual or guild recognition would only lead to (even more) elitism. So IMHO there shouldn’t be any.

This ^

The quote below is why I agree. There’s already enough of this crappy attitude in game. We don’t need “guild recognition” or “OMG IM DA BES” recognition to further the crappy elitism problem.

I don’t think that everyone who just comes along to participate should be entitled to the same chance at the same rewards.

Healix.5819:

It won’t. Everyone is treated equally in the open world. If I solo a champion and you zerg it down with 100 people, we get the same rewards even though I put in 100x the effort and time. It’s not fair, but that’s the way it works.

One of the goals of the game is that helping someone should never make things worse for them. If loot scaled with the number of people attacking it, you’d get people yelling at each other for helping kill a monster instead of grateful sighs of relief for the assist.

Now the game isn’t perfect (champion farming during invasions being a good example when success and maximizing loot are directly at odds), but it’s a lot better at this than many other games. If you want to try to solo a champion for the challenge of it, cool, but if they gave you something extra for the effort then there would be this opportunity for inter-player toxicity to enter the game. The fewer of those, the better.

Party 40 players Zerk Woriors, guardians and mesmer. Teq will die in 15min. Drop blue and green + mini teq and precurosor/ascended weapon(the same drop rate)

Oh my! They going to revamp an event! Better start demanding more rewards for me -_-

Xaielao.8510:

Individual or guild recognition would only lead to (even more) elitism. So IMHO there shouldn’t be any.

I agree, too. Guild recognition outside of PvP doesn’t really make sense in a game like GW2.

Zeldain.5710:

I think there should be a systemic mechanic that recognizes and rewards the coordinating guild somehow.

They’ll get influence for participating in the event, the more people that do the more influence they’ll earn. They could give guild merits too I suppose.

Zeldain.5710:

And I don’t think that everyone who just comes along to participate should be entitled to the same chance at the same rewards.

Why not? Because they’re not in the same guild as the guy wearing a commander tag and telling people to do what they were going to do anyway?

PVE in GW2 is not that complex, this new fight is no exception, after one or two tries it’ll be pretty obvious what needs to be done during the stages and any individual who looks around, reacts to changing circumstances and moves to fill a needed role is just as deserving of rewards as a footsoldier from some guild who follows orders.

Pifil.5193:

Zeldain.5710:

And I don’t think that everyone who just comes along to participate should be entitled to the same chance at the same rewards.

Why not? Because they’re not in the same guild as the guy wearing a commander tag and telling people to do what they were going to do anyway?

PVE in GW2 is not that complex, this new fight is no exception, after one or two tries it’ll be pretty obvious what needs to be done during the stages and any individual who looks around, reacts to changing circumstances and moves to fill a needed role is just as deserving of rewards as a footsoldier from some guild who follows orders.

If that’s the case there’s no point in doing this change to the system.

If you deal with organizing X amount of people to do the work, and deal with the people who aren’t helping (and maybe even hindering) your ability to kill it… why should they have the same chance at the same loot as the group that puts in the effort?

This whole thing will fall flat on its face if there isn’t something to delineate the group that puts forth the effort vs the players who are simply “also there.”

Do you people understand they are making this, the first real boss that lives up the minimal standars of any MMORPG right?

Consider this now a Raid, come on white knights, dont celebrate something this game should have since the begining.

Most likely there will be little reward beyond reward to guilds who coordinate large numbers of players similar to WoW raids. This is simply another step in the Wowification of the GW franchise. For the common player the world events likely will become failure fests similar to everywhere (cf orr and cursed shore) they have attempted to make the game more interesting. This will likely empty the world events as it has Orr, et al. Players, for awhile, will gravitate to temporary content (e.g., SAB) as the open world becomes more and more lifeless. The long term prognosis is not good from my perspective.

Xaielao.8510:

Individual or guild recognition would only lead to (even more) elitism. So IMHO there shouldn’t be any.

Agreed. No need for guild recognition by the game. The only recognition a guild deserves is that type that is given by the server’s players themselves.

Zeldain.5710:

Pifil.5193:

Zeldain.5710:

And I don’t think that everyone who just comes along to participate should be entitled to the same chance at the same rewards.

Why not? Because they’re not in the same guild as the guy wearing a commander tag and telling people to do what they were going to do anyway?

PVE in GW2 is not that complex, this new fight is no exception, after one or two tries it’ll be pretty obvious what needs to be done during the stages and any individual who looks around, reacts to changing circumstances and moves to fill a needed role is just as deserving of rewards as a footsoldier from some guild who follows orders.

If that’s the case there’s no point in doing this change to the system.

If you deal with organizing X amount of people to do the work, and deal with the people who aren’t helping (and maybe even hindering) your ability to kill it… why should they have the same chance at the same loot as the group that puts in the effort?

This whole thing will fall flat on its face if there isn’t something to delineate the group that puts forth the effort vs the players who are simply “also there.”

Because everyone there is putting forth effort whether you recognize it or not. The second you start rewarding a group of people over another it creates tension. Why is anyone going to come help another guild kill Teq if they aren’t going to be rewarded the same? The answer is they aren’t, you only need to look at the failed guild missions system. I’d imagine it would go something like Guild A attempts Tequatl, Guild B sits back not helping, Guild A wipes, Guild B comes in and then attempts to “steal” Tequatl. Then the drama, name calling, etc starts….that’s real great for community building!

GW2 is/was supposed to be an all inclusive MMO where everyone could contribute and be rewarded. As soon as you start dolling out rewards/recognition to subsets of the community, the community will then start falling apart. The community as a whole is much more important than certain guilds needing to be recognized to feel superior to others. Go find a sandbox MMO for that type of recognition/loot because this isn’t the game for it.

Looks like kitten is gonna be a kitten now with better mechanics and better game-play action.

Are you kidding me here? Grow the hell up. It’s elitist pricks like you who ruin the GAME for everyone else. We are all here for FUN.

Distaste.4801:

Because everyone there is putting forth effort whether you recognize it or not. The second you start rewarding a group of people over another it creates tension. Why is anyone going to come help another guild kill Teq if they aren’t going to be rewarded the same?

It can’t be both ways.

Why do you suppose ArenaNet released GW2 with bowling pin world bosses that simply fall over? Because they had to account for everyone and any number of people doing it, without working together or coordinating in the slightest.

Now that they’re going to require strategy and coordination, it’s by definition going to leave out the random non-grouped player from any meaningful contribution.

In fact those players can’t even say “please invite me to the raid so I can help execute your plan” if they wanted to, because there are no large group management tools in place. (In my opinion, MUCH greater group/party tools have to accompany this change, but that’s a different discussion.)

So since those players are unable to put in the same level of effort (remember, “showing up” is no longer enough effort, you must play as a team) the same rewards should not be available to them.

And let’s not even get into the problem of drive-by-boss stabbings from leachers.

Distaste.4801:

I’d imagine it would go something like Guild A attempts Tequatl, Guild B sits back not helping, Guild A wipes, Guild B comes in and then attempts to “steal” Tequatl. Then the drama, name calling, etc starts….that’s real great for community building!

Actually, it is great for community building!

Players start to recognize guild names in PvE in a meaningful way. They also get to start recognizing players by name (instead of the ridiculous faceless WvW.) This in itself spins up an atmosphere of aspiration in the community.

“GuildX just took down Tequatl!”

“Did Tequalt’s Fang of Doom” drop?

“Yep! PlayerX got it!”

“Grats!”

That whole process inspires other players to try new things and talk to new people. That means they will be meeting other players, socializing and playing better as they work to become part of an actual team. Something Guild Wars 2 currently doesn’t have in PvE, and ArenaNet seems to have recognized.

Sometimes, some exclusivity is the ultimate community building tool.

Distaste.4801:

GW2 is/was supposed to be an all inclusive MMO where everyone could contribute and be rewarded. As soon as you start dolling out rewards/recognition to subsets of the community, the community will then start falling apart. The community as a whole is much more important than certain guilds needing to be recognized to feel superior to others. Go find a sandbox MMO for that type of recognition/loot because this isn’t the game for it.

Just to reiterate… you can’t have teamwork matter and be all-inclusive at the same time. And as I indicated, this kind of thing can actually make the community much stronger in the long run.

Make no mistake – this is absolutely the right design direction for Anet to go with world bosses, but it has to go hand-in-hand with more attention to team play and making sure the reward system is fair.

I’m not saying that players who just “show up” get 0 rewards, but they shouldn’t have a chance at the best rewards (the unique Ascended weapon skin or whatever it is that will be dropping from this boss, and presumably others in the future.)

Zeldain.5710:

Just to reiterate… you can’t have teamwork matter and be all-inclusive at the same time.

Nonsense. You accomplish that by either being all-inclusive to the team and/or by creating multiple objectives. WvW is a good example of a place where teamwork can do some serious damage to your enemies, but there’s still something for everyone to do.

Zeldain.5710:

I’m not saying that players who just “show up” get 0 rewards, but they shouldn’t have a chance at the best rewards (the unique Ascended weapon skin or whatever it is that will be dropping from this boss, and presumably others in the future.)

Gear drops are not a zero-sum game in GW2. Whether random Player X who just happened to be in the area and went along for the ride gets an Ascended drop has nothing to do with whether the Guild Leader who set the whole thing up gets an Ascended drop.

I see no reason for why the social distinction of being a guild that can properly execute Tequatl kills shouldn’t be added incentive enough for guilds to try to tackle this event. As soon as this launches, I expect to see guilds racing to be the first to take him down, for example.

well, already looks like this is gonna be, “it is all guilds b, c, and d’s fault we failed. we are so great and they are so bad. Please anet make this instanced so we will shine above all the crappy players that made us fail”
It’s really sad when anet trys to put something in motion that will build the community, then have someone like some posters on this thread, already trying to tear it down.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zeldain.5710:

Just to reiterate… you can’t have teamwork matter and be all-inclusive at the same time.

Nonsense. You accomplish that by either being all-inclusive to the team and/or by creating multiple objectives. WvW is a good example of a place where teamwork can do some serious damage to your enemies, but there’s still something for everyone to do.

Zeldain.5710:

I’m not saying that players who just “show up” get 0 rewards, but they shouldn’t have a chance at the best rewards (the unique Ascended weapon skin or whatever it is that will be dropping from this boss, and presumably others in the future.)

Gear drops are not a zero-sum game in GW2. Whether random Player X who just happened to be in the area and went along for the ride gets an Ascended drop has nothing to do with whether the Guild Leader who set the whole thing up gets an Ascended drop.

I see no reason for why the social distinction of being a guild that can properly execute Tequatl kills shouldn’t be added incentive enough for guilds to try to tackle this event. As soon as this launches, I expect to see guilds racing to be the first to take him down, for example.

Sure it does. It makes them question the effort entirely.

“If I can get the same thing without going through all of this organizational hassle and wipes, I’d be stupid to do so.”

Rational human thinking.

But if there is an incentive, the Tequatl-exclusive weapon skin for example, then it becomes something to aspire to. But not if someone who is accidentally walking by can get it too.

Zeldain.5710:

Sure it does. It makes them question the effort entirely.

“If I can get the same thing without going through all of this organizational hassle and wipes, I’d be stupid to do so.”

But you can’t, because not everyone’s going to be able to do it and it’s not going to be happening reliably all the time, like it currently is.

Because you likely will need a guild to spearhead this, it’s not going to be happening seriously WITHOUT a guild, so the guild members would have likely gotten nothing had their guild not stepped up.

And I really think you’re underestimating the amount of server-wide visibility this sort of thing could provide, or at least underestimating the value of said visibility. Even if the only advantage to being in a Guild that takes down Tequatl regularly were advanced knowledge of when it’s happening, that would still be a pretty decent way for that Guild to distinguish itself from all the other bazillion guilds swimming around. The people helping you out this time get the reward, sure, but they likely won’t be able to show up for the next run, or the run after that, or so on.

And again, would you rather Guilds were told to screw themselves when asking for help?