Guild Wars 2

Pssh, I’d go full Leeroy into a zerg even when it cost me money to repair if it meant i’d get a good dead scout vantage point on their movements. Now i get to do it for free. No skin off my rear. I think its going to make WvW far more exciting and inviting to new players.

What you fail to realize OP, is that GW2 is an ultra casual game centered around brain dead simple PvE, shopping at the cash shop, and cosplaying in major cities with your friends. Save the consequences for challenging games.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

What you fail to realize OP, is that GW2 is an ultra casual game centered around brain dead simple PvE, shopping at the cash shop, and cosplaying in major cities with your friends. Save the consequences for challenging games.

What you fail to realize, is that Tequatl, Wurm, 6 Minutes to Knightfall, (supposedly Liadri as I missed it) and even Marionette are not brain dead simple PvE (:

Yes, there is “brain dead simple PvE”, but still there is content which is more or less “midcore” or “hardcore” and which keeps me and other players in the game – both cosplaying and shopping till the moment we get overwhelmed by boredom.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

What you fail to realize OP, is that GW2 is an ultra casual game centered around brain dead simple PvE, shopping at the cash shop, and cosplaying in major cities with your friends. Save the consequences for challenging games.

What you fail to realize, is that Tequatl, Wurm, 6 Minutes to Knightfall, (supposedly Liadri as I missed it) and even Marionette are not brain dead simple PvE (:

Yes, there is “brain dead simple PvE”, but still there is content which is more or less “midcore” or “hardcore” and which keeps me and other players in the game – both cosplaying and shopping till the moment we get overwhelmed by boredom.

That comment is more brain dead your trying to equate 2 different things that have NOTHING to do with each other. A skin is just that a skin you can make some very nice looks with out spending a lot of gold or time they have nothing to do with skill level of play. Some may even say the worst looking skins are from some of the hardest events in the game but ppl will not put them on. There are some pve only skins that are harder to get then most but ppl simply do not like to use them it has nothing to do with showing off your skill level or not its about liking how things look.

Vaugh.7193:

The humiliation of death > repair costs.

Ive never ever cared about repair costs but letting my commrades down by rally botting is a big isssue for me.

Exactly. It’s the part where I die and let the others down that is the bad part for me. Paying a few silver for repairs? I don’t even consider that.

I wasn’t aware GW2 was EXTREME enough to get the “hardcore” crowd. Please go back to your COD, we wont miss you.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

penelopehannibal.8947:

There’s no such thing as a bad player. Maybe a sore winner or a sore loser, but no such thing as a bad player.

Have you ever seen a newbie mesmer stand right up next to the enemy, use the GS auto, and then complain it’s such a weak weapon? I die a little inside everytime I see that.

Some players are bad. I have more examples if you require.

That’s not them being a bad player though, is it? Inexperienced, and perhaps a sore loser if they whine in /map chat. But not ‘bad’.

Most of them are probably just AFK on a game like Warframe because it is more rewarding. If someone is auto attacking they aren’t bad they just not playing. The game requires X amount of damage to get rewards and auto attacking accomplishes this.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

I wasn’t aware GW2 was EXTREME enough to get the “hardcore” crowd. Please go back to your COD, we wont miss you.

Dark soul 1 or 2 the only thing “hardcore” any more something that you can fail for sure and may never be able to beat. There are some things in GW2 like this but its more of a time thing such as mad kind clock tower JP or the winter-days JP or the SAB levels. There are very high skill content that only last for a set time giving them a feeling of “hardcore” if that what a person is looking for. Any thing else in a game its just a factor of time and try before you beat something realty any thing in some ways pve in any game that has content that there forever is not and will never truly be “hardcore.”

The real problem with this isn’t punishment by fees. The difference between winning and losing isn’t that great. The dragons just sit in one spot making auto attack work in the first place. If they ran across the entire map then auto attack would be irrelevant. It is the lazy game design of the events and the boundaries of the boxes they exist in. Making 4.5g or 6g in an extended period of time is completely unrewarding and doesn’t make me care to even play never mind play well. If you want people to care rewards have to be significantly better, participation has to be required, mechanics have to force skilled play, one or two shot mechanics have to go, and punishment through fees have to disappear. Not getting good rewards is punishment enough we don’t need fees on top of all that.

Repair costs are only a few silver, barely an incentive to not die.

Since I don’t hardly ever repair, this just means a loss of earning potential for me.

When I was first learning this game I went down A LOT. Since I hadn’t built up any cash yet, it was very expensive. Now that I have 5 level 80s, lots of gold, and a better idea of how to stay alive the repair costs are negligible. However, even if I still had no idea of how to stay alive I would still have the accumulated gold and probably still be ignoring the repair costs as puny. This change it meant to make it easier for new players to pick up the game. The bad players will be bad no matter how much it costs.

Furthermore, they stated they want to reduce champ bags in order to spread people onto the maps. It was a little unclear when they said “champ bags and events” if that meant “champ bags and champ events” or “champ bags and all events”. If the former, then I think they can achieve their purpose of reducing champ farming – a little. The bad players will still line up to “press 1” against the boss since they would die trying to make money otherwise. If the latter, well, that’s just weird.

I’ll just leave this here.

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

Jon Peters

Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.

This was the way it was supposed to be in the original vision of the game. For some reason, ArenaNet took a detour for a year and a half, but seem to be coming back to some of their original talking points, like account-wide dyes, and no death penalty.

Here’s a better idea.
Add Death Penalty back.
-15% each time you die.
If everyone in your party has -60% Death Penalty, party gets kicked out of insan- oh never mind, to punishing for casuals.

As it’s been said half a dozen times in this thread, removing repair costs is negligible. I always viewed it as some kind of subtle attrition mechanic like the cost of using way points or resetting your trait points. Perhaps they want to put a small, but controlled, drain on your gold stash to keep you farming more or maybe even encourage gem card purchases. This minor drain will now be a thing of the past for armor repairs but you will still have to travel to an NPC or anvil to fix things.

Considering that it’s currently not at all prohibitively expensive, I don’t see how this is going to change much of anything.

We already have unskillful play by the boatload as GW2’s PvE offerings are not particularly challenging. I’m still waiting for an expansion to see if Arenanet plans on improving cooperative PvE content as a whole.

I agree with OP’s mindset but I do agree that it’s a bit exaggerated.

The overall point that I think he’s trying to get across is that removing consequence from failure typically results in a dull environment that doesn’t encourage the average player to try to become better at what they’re doing because laziness and ineptitude is perfectly fine.

I don’t condone it personally and I think catering to people that aren’t willing to put forth any effort into learning how to play better is a bad call in the longrun.

Gibson.4036:

I’ll just leave this here.

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

Jon Peters

Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.

This was the way it was supposed to be in the original vision of the game. For some reason, ArenaNet took a detour for a year and a half, but seem to be coming back to some of their original talking points, like account-wide dyes, and no death penalty.

Gold sink is my guess they did not think the other gold sinks alone would pull it off it seems. Repair costs only is a real gold sink to player who have the least so it becomes a wall for new players.

I wonder what will happen to the -15% off armor repairs buff you get from guild mission merits?

Gibson.4036:

I’ll just leave this here.

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

Jon Peters

Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.

This was the way it was supposed to be in the original vision of the game. For some reason, ArenaNet took a detour for a year and a half, but seem to be coming back to some of their original talking points, like account-wide dyes, and no death penalty.

^This. The fact that I died and have to do a certain fight over again is enough penalty.

I’d like to see the repair cost to stay and introduce “repair time”.

As is every piece of armor + back piece will get in damage state before anything starts breaking.
Keep that as is, but a damaged piece would take 24 hours to get repaired, meanwhile if it breaks add another 24 hours.

That way there is a serious consequence on dying, the problem is it could easily back fire making everyone run for dear life.
I’d still like that system to be implemented for a month on a experimental basis.

TooBz.3065:

Khisanth.2948:

runeblade.7514:

I think it will have the most negative impact in WvW.

In WvW, there is no waypoint fees. Only repair cost.

It keeps psychological warfare which is routing. If they think that the zerg they are in will fail, they’ll flee. If there is only losses if they keep staying, then there is no point in fighting further. It keeps the mentally of “I don’t want to die.”

If people are still running away even without repair costs I don’t think I ever want to play WvW again. With repair costs at least there is a valid excuse for running away.

Of course there is. A strategic retreat and regroup can be good. Running away and getting into a tower / castle can allow you to man / build and defend the tower. Running can provide time to heal up. On some maps you have to run fairly far to get back to where you were, so the time factor can be important, especially if you are trying to meet up with a superior force somewhere on the map.

It’s not like people have a reason to stand alone in front of 30 people and say “FREE BAGS, GET YOUR TAG IN”, unless of course, you do (and sometimes you do).

Strategic Retreat and routing is not the same.

I have to say…the cost of repairs has never been an issue for me one way or the other with regard to trying to avoid death. The consequences of death are (1) letting my party down; (2) public humiliation; (3) lost time and opportunity.

Elothar.4382:

I have to say…the cost of repairs has never been an issue for me one way or the other with regard to trying to avoid death. The consequences of death are (1) letting my party down; (2) public humiliation; (3) lost time and opportunity.

1. Running away and leaving your party to die lets your party down.
2. Running away lets the enemy humiliate you for being a coward.
3. Running away is lost time and opportunity so that you don’t get bags.

I don’t know why people behave like Guild Wars 2 is some game with comprehensive battle mechanics that warrant a “get better or else” penalty. All of the big open world fights are cluster bombs of auto attacking through particle madness. The dungeons are about finding ways to ninja around the trash mobs and cheap environment/booby traps. The bosses are about stacking up and using a magnifying glass to see what obnoxious buff/debuff it has so you don’t die by your own hands.

Please tell me what “skillfull” play is in GW2.

I do totaly support the OP with this.
No Repair Cost is nice, but not in exchange of even less loot, which is quite llame even now; Rare/Exo chest drops you a green/blue…n1?

I would say no repair cost below level 80.
Maybe WWW shouldn’t have repairs too, since its pvp. But it keeps people sober and thats good.

Never had trouble to pay these minimal repair fees, the WP costs are way higher and not really reasonable – since this little map that GW2 offers should be explorable and accessable freely.

Let those armorsmith be kind and they’ll surely give the Gnash support to the WP engineers, since the smithes got their wallets full during Scarlet’s Assaults.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

^This. The fact that I died and have to do a certain fight over again is enough penalty.

Except that most will not, as the other 4-3 party members will finish it for you.

Vaugh.7193:

The humiliation of death > repair costs.

Ive never ever cared about repair costs but letting my commrades down by rally botting is a big isssue for me.

Gibson.4036:

Jon Peters

Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.

This was the way it was supposed to be in the original vision of the game. For some reason, ArenaNet took a detour for a year and a half, but seem to be coming back to some of their original talking points, like account-wide dyes, and no death penalty.

I used to play different games. When your HP hit zero, your body hit the ground and your progress was reset to the nearest checkpoint, or you were put on a timer before you could respawn. I was totally WTF?! when I first went into “downed” state instead of dropping dead.

What “humiliation”, what “defeat as a punishment”? Oh, come on, it doesn’t even look dramatic, it’s just as children-safe as a cartoon defeated boss-of-the-week. Some games have the picture lose colors or get a bloody tint, blurred out, sounds become echoed and distant, the heart gives thumping sounds, your character can’t aim and lose mobility… You feel that you’re about to die, and you feel that you should do your best to survive.

In GW2? You get a slight red frame; you get a bit more reddish frame and sit down on the ground with an outstretched hand; you lie in an unnatural pose. Oh, the horror. Then your team rubs the ground around you, and in 5 seconds you’re as alive as you were before!

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

I wonder what will happen to the -15% off armor repairs buff you get from guild mission merits?

• You still get -15% off the 0!
• You get paid 15% of the previous each time you repair!

Purple Miku.7032:

The overall point that I think he’s trying to get across is that removing consequence from failure typically results in a dull environment that doesn’t encourage the average player to try to become better at what they’re doing because laziness and ineptitude is perfectly fine.

I don’t condone it personally and I think catering to people that aren’t willing to put forth any effort into learning how to play better is a bad call in the longrun.

Miku sees my point. But why not classical turquoise?

I’d like to see old GW1 “Morale” debuff maybe. Not 15% each death because that was quite ridiculous, but 5% debuff stacking up to 5 would be okay

Lishtenbird.2814:

2) It never stopped people from lying dead at LS events, because there’s always a noble sole who will try to res you even if it hurts the global goal.

Actually… Often the reason I ress is hardly from noble, especially if I see a character go defeated several times… Or if I see a character AFK in a spot that is not exactly safe…

For me, this change is good. Not that I repair a lot, because I don’t (those canisters I have stashed should say enough), but because now I can finally start mapping WvW without it costing me a fortune (I have 0 interests in WvW otherwise)

Don’t worry about the lack of skill, people will probably flock to the whole lose a match of PvP get a reward as it will be a path of low resistance.

No repair cost means not being punished for being bum-rushed in a 1v5 situation in wvw.

Repair costs are a tax on ambition. We can do without it.

Purple Miku.7032:

I agree with OP’s mindset but I do agree that it’s a bit exaggerated.

The overall point that I think he’s trying to get across is that removing consequence from failure typically results in a dull environment that doesn’t encourage the average player to try to become better at what they’re doing because laziness and ineptitude is perfectly fine.

I don’t condone it personally and I think catering to people that aren’t willing to put forth any effort into learning how to play better is a bad call in the longrun.

I understand the OP’s point, also. However, negative consequences do not encourage behavior. At best, they discourage behavior. The more negative the consequence, the more likely the behavior caused will be either rage quitting or complaining. If downed, some people will try to figure out what caused it and avoid it next time, some won’t. Presence or absence of repair cost will have next to zero effect on player behavior.

That said, since there had been relatively few complaints about armor repair outside of fractals, I’d say that the repair consequence wasn’t very onerous to begin with.