Guild Wars 2

Well You’re mostly right about stealth and so but youre COMPETLY wrong in specs.
When did pistol/pistol became a meta spec in wvwvw lol? XDD And we thieves do not play glass d/D or your P/P spec Most thieves play 16 k hp 0 30 30 10 0 D/D or 0 20 30 20 0 D/P specs (Gettin nerfed) and basicly stealth>Backstab>AAA chain —>repeat. But yes we’re not op due to very low base HP, medium armor and lack of utlity. But great post overall but your build part was COMPETLY Wrong but gj anywhy

Re: PU Mesmers

A PU Mesmer (20/20/30/0/0) does not have the burst, CC, or chasing capability to down you or put you in critical condition in a short session. They thrive on a passive/defensive usage of stealth. Clones destroyed? No damage given. Staff and Torch phantasms are relatively weak in terms of killing power. Do Mesmers have convenient access to speed boost while in stealth? No. Do they have condition removal? Yes, just the one from Torch (30 or 24s CD).

Re: Thief

One Thief is manageable by certain class setups. Trolled by a group of Thieves? Alt-F4. Manageable means: you don’t die, but you won’t win.

Yep, when I see a Thief invis near me, I swap to GS and swing around like crazy. There’s nothing more satisfying than seeing a Thief unstealth and is downed already. Well maybe actually killing them and getting the XP without even seeing them. That’s pretty satisfying too, but generally only happens when they use their downed stealth ability. Who do they think they’re fooling lol.

Eloquence.5207:

Re: Thief

One Thief is manageable by certain class setups. Trolled by a group of Thieves? Alt-F4. Manageable means: you don’t die, but you won’t win.

One thief is alright, multiple thieves and you might as well just open inventory and start drinking your karma and using your essences of luck. At least that way you’re being somewhat productive. I will say however, that this applies to any class really. Multiple eles? lol cya in like 3 secs (assuming burst eles), multiple Guards, yea, you’d be lucky to take 5% hp off of one, multiple warriors, yep owned, so on and so forth. It’s pretty much any class in multiples will wreck your day.

Like I said many times, current stealth mechanics are one of the worst things for wvw.

The longer Anet keeps such idiotic mechanics in the game, the less fun it is to play.

Draknar.5748:

Yep, when I see a Thief invis near me, I swap to GS and swing around like crazy.

Draknar swung a sword. Draknar swung a sword again. Hey! Draknar swung it again. That’s great!

There ya go folks and future developers, top notch AAA stealth and counter stealth mechanics right here that will stand the test of time and be written in the history books for all future mmorpgs!

:)

Swagger.1459:

Draknar.5748:

Yep, when I see a Thief invis near me, I swap to GS and swing around like crazy.

Draknar swung a sword. Draknar swung a sword again. Hey! Draknar swung it again. That’s great!

Here ya go folks and future developers, top notch AAA stealth and counter stealth mechanics right here that will stand the test of time and be written in the history books for all future mmorpgs!

:)

It’s not an MMO, but i can’t tell you how many time’s i’ve killed invisible Spies in TF2 just by swinging in the air. And i’m talking about the one’s that are standing still so they are completely invisible.

Scrambles.2604:

Swagger.1459:

Draknar.5748:

Yep, when I see a Thief invis near me, I swap to GS and swing around like crazy.

Draknar swung a sword. Draknar swung a sword again. Hey! Draknar swung it again. That’s great!

Here ya go folks and future developers, top notch AAA stealth and counter stealth mechanics right here that will stand the test of time and be written in the history books for all future mmorpgs!

:)

It’s not an MMO, but i can’t tell you how many time’s i’ve killed invisible Spies in TF2 just by swinging in the air. And i’m talking about the one’s that are standing still so they are completely invisible.

Awesome! Another great example of quality game mechanics!

LordByron.8369:

I think you should post this in thief forum and ask them …. good thief players (those you can t kill) will explain you are wrong.
Expecially for www some called this build a paraphrase of “beginner friendly”.

It isn’t beginner friendly. The low HP and Armor means that the player does not have any room for mistakes. Most of their traits and stat allocation will be focused on damage so they wont have very many survivability traits, if at all.

Since thieves lack decent healing and condition removal, killing them is a matter of who hits the hardest first. A little bit of situation awareness and timing will go a long way.

Swagger.1459:

Scrambles.2604:

Swagger.1459:

Draknar.5748:

Yep, when I see a Thief invis near me, I swap to GS and swing around like crazy.

Draknar swung a sword. Draknar swung a sword again. Hey! Draknar swung it again. That’s great!

Here ya go folks and future developers, top notch AAA stealth and counter stealth mechanics right here that will stand the test of time and be written in the history books for all future mmorpgs!

:)

It’s not an MMO, but i can’t tell you how many time’s i’ve killed invisible Spies in TF2 just by swinging in the air. And i’m talking about the one’s that are standing still so they are completely invisible.

Awesome! Another great example of quality game mechanics!

Just like chess, if you want to have the advantage over your opponent you have to be one step ahead of them. This includes predicting their actions, whether you can see them or not.

I said it earlier, but my post got overlooked i guess. If you hit a stealthed thief it would show up in your combat log.

Zacchary.6183:

LordByron.8369:

I think you should post this in thief forum and ask them …. good thief players (those you can t kill) will explain you are wrong.
Expecially for www some called this build a paraphrase of “beginner friendly”.

It isn’t beginner friendly. The low HP and Armor means that the player does not have any room for mistakes. Most of their traits and stat allocation will be focused on damage so they wont have very many survivability traits, if at all.

Since thieves lack decent healing and condition removal, killing them is a matter of who hits the hardest first. A little bit of situation awareness and timing will go a long way.

Pop stealth. Create separation. Healing + condition removal.

Who is going to spot you, let alone chase you?

Eloquence.5207:

Zacchary.6183:

LordByron.8369:

I think you should post this in thief forum and ask them …. good thief players (those you can t kill) will explain you are wrong.
Expecially for www some called this build a paraphrase of “beginner friendly”.

It isn’t beginner friendly. The low HP and Armor means that the player does not have any room for mistakes. Most of their traits and stat allocation will be focused on damage so they wont have very many survivability traits, if at all.

Since thieves lack decent healing and condition removal, killing them is a matter of who hits the hardest first. A little bit of situation awareness and timing will go a long way.

Pop stealth. Create separation. Healing + condition removal.

Who is going to spot you, let alone chase you?

You can’t really “Pop stealth” without being spotted. I think only the heal and C&D don’t make smoke when go into stealth. If you can’t see shadow refuge then your fight is already lost, lol.

Eloquence.5207:

Zacchary.6183:

LordByron.8369:

I think you should post this in thief forum and ask them …. good thief players (those you can t kill) will explain you are wrong.
Expecially for www some called this build a paraphrase of “beginner friendly”.

It isn’t beginner friendly. The low HP and Armor means that the player does not have any room for mistakes. Most of their traits and stat allocation will be focused on damage so they wont have very many survivability traits, if at all.

Since thieves lack decent healing and condition removal, killing them is a matter of who hits the hardest first. A little bit of situation awareness and timing will go a long way.

Pop stealth. Create separation. Healing + condition removal.

Who is going to spot you, let alone chase you?

Decent players.

If you are really having a problem with GC thieves, pin them and kill faster.

Suddenly Thieves players don’t dodge.

Seems like a logical fallacy here, where the premise was designed to be proven wrong and could never be proven right. OP didn’t “confirm” anything other than thieves are not invincible. Forgive the direct response to sarcasm, but it seems like this is supposed to deserve a pat on the back or something. It’s quite insipid, actually.

At issue is the liberal access and excessive use of stealth by thieves. Rightfully criticized, I feel, when the “annoy” thieves (as I will go forward calling them) simply do appear as invincible because a good one is nearly impossible to catch and down.

Ordinarily annoying, but left behind in your keep with a dead mesmer waiting for the rez, you need to camp the bloody corpse. Meanwhile 5+ people play ring around the keep with the trolling thief; it does become more than a mosquito, it’s a mosquito that could raise a player who will drop a 40+ zerg inside your fortified walls (dig that e-sport, right?).

It’s not an OP build, it’s just something that should not forking exist because it’s ridiculous. The high speed, mobility and extensive use of stealth in and out of combat is too much.

Stealth is fine as a mechanic, thieves just give it a terrible and dirty reputation. I don’t blame players for making use of viable builds and tactics, it’s Anet that needs to start making thieves more like thieves. I feel the entire archetype is betrayed by how it’s played, be it glassy burst assassin or vampire creature.

I feel pretty invincible when i’m invisible as a mesmer. I can still be hit, sure, but I don’t get hit. If I get snared I can blink away. I get pretty awesome buffs as well while in stealth (protect, regen). I feel its a tad OP.

I’m curious… how would you do stealth differently?

Morfedel.4165:

I’m curious… how would you do stealth differently?

There is no quick fix, especially when a profession is entirely built around it like the thief. At the moment stealth grants them all kinds of utilities like condi cleans, increased movement speed and such. There is no risk involved. There should some sort of risk to using something that gives you such a great advantage like maybe vulnerability or even reveal when hit for a certain amount of damage or maybe giving other professions a skill that will incapacitate the thief’s or mesmer’s ability to stealth for a period of time. The problem is if you implement something like that with changing anything else then you completely destroy the profession cause they rely so much on it. Basically the entire class would need to be gutted and reworked.

OK give every class the ability to go stealth 90% of the fight and see how thief players enjoy it.

Zacchary.6183:

LordByron.8369:

I think you should post this in thief forum and ask them …. good thief players (those you can t kill) will explain you are wrong.
Expecially for www some called this build a paraphrase of “beginner friendly”.

It isn’t beginner friendly. The low HP and Armor means that the player does not have any room for mistakes. Most of their traits and stat allocation will be focused on damage so they wont have very many survivability traits, if at all.

Since thieves lack decent healing and condition removal, killing them is a matter of who hits the hardest first. A little bit of situation awareness and timing will go a long way.

I simply disagree. It is beginner friendly. I have found the perma stealth thief to be laughably opd, able to troll 5+ enemies without any trouble. It’s the worst mechanic I have ever experienced, even though I’ve benefitted from it.

Morfedel.4165:

I’m curious… how would you do stealth differently?

Just throwing ideas out there.

In other games (not necessarily MMORPGs), stealth comes with a fade-time.

Stealth usually has some type of direct counter from skills/items. The current stealth disruption trap is just silly.

Certain condition/debuff should interrupt stealth. It’d would be hard to do this in GW2 because AoE skills everywhere.

Thieves are borderline overpowered in combat. Many say they’re not as powerful in ranked pvp because they’re lack luster in the teamfights. However, if we ever see a deathmatch/tdm mode appear thief will be the most played class.

Reasons this stealthing system sucks.

No direct counter. The current counter depends heavily on the players ability to predict another. This is a huge skill requirement to fight one class. No other class requires this level of prediction. Sure fighting them does require prediction, but thief requires the most because of stealthing.

First strike advantage constantly during fights. In any PvP gaming have the first strike advantage is insanely good. Being able to have it multiple times during one fight is insanely good.

You got bonus stuff! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve fought a thief and he goes stealth and appears without conditions. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten a thief down to 10%, he spams stealth, appears with full hp, get him down again, uses heal, rinse and repeat. So you get all these buffs to an already impressive thing to have in PvP.

You control the fight as a stealther. You want to reset your HP? Not much they can do to stop you. 90% of the thieves I fought had controlled the fight. If they wanted to escape a fight, they would. If they wanted to run, there are very few classes that were able to stop them alone. Other thieves and thats about it. I’ve seen instances where a thief would engage in a fight in the middle of 10 people in WvW. Then as we all chase him, he escapes. That level of forgiveness and fight control should never be in the hands of one person. No class should be able to escape the CC, condition damage, and damage of 10 people.

I have never seen any sort of MMO or MLG pvp game with a similar stealth system. Mobas for example. They have sentrys that anyone can buy , some classes have skills that can directly counter stealth, ontop of this none of the stealth skills offer amazing healing ability. Previous MMOs never had this sort of none counterable stealth.

They can’t just remove stealthing now however, I recognize how deeply thieves rely on this to survive. They need to find a way to buff your survivability without having you rely on such an overpowered concept of the stealth system. If they keep the current system, they need to reduce your ability to go stealth by about 1/4-1/2 of its current ability.

Deified.7520:

Thieves are borderline overpowered in combat. Many say they’re not as powerful in ranked pvp because they’re lack luster in the teamfights. However, if we ever see a deathmatch/tdm mode appear thief will be the most played class.

Reasons this stealthing system sucks.

No direct counter. The current counter depends heavily on the players ability to predict another. This is a huge skill requirement to fight one class. No other class requires this level of prediction. Sure fighting them does require prediction, but thief requires the most because of stealthing.

First strike advantage constantly during fights. In any PvP gaming have the first strike advantage is insanely good. Being able to have it multiple times during one fight is insanely good.

You got bonus stuff! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve fought a thief and he goes stealth and appears without conditions. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten a thief down to 10%, he spams stealth, appears with full hp, get him down again, uses heal, rinse and repeat. So you get all these buffs to an already impressive thing to have in PvP.

You control the fight as a stealther. You want to reset your HP? Not much they can do to stop you. 90% of the thieves I fought had controlled the fight. If they wanted to escape a fight, they would. If they wanted to run, there are very few classes that were able to stop them alone. Other thieves and thats about it. I’ve seen instances where a thief would engage in a fight in the middle of 10 people in WvW. Then as we all chase him, he escapes. That level of forgiveness and fight control should never be in the hands of one person. No class should be able to escape the CC, condition damage, and damage of 10 people.

I have never seen any sort of MMO or MLG pvp game with a similar stealth system. Mobas for example. They have sentrys that anyone can buy , some classes have skills that can directly counter stealth, ontop of this none of the stealth skills offer amazing healing ability. Previous MMOs never had this sort of none counterable stealth.

They can’t just remove stealthing now however, I recognize how deeply thieves rely on this to survive. They need to find a way to buff your survivability without having you rely on such an overpowered concept of the stealth system. If they keep the current system, they need to reduce your ability to go stealth by about 1/4-1/2 of its current ability.

Solution: play a ranger, use Sic ’Em. Reveals all stealthed enemies and your pet deals extra damage for a short time.

kelman.9451:

OK give every class the ability to go stealth 90% of the fight and see how thief players enjoy it.

How about no? I want to fight, not sit in stealth or wait for someone else to come out of it.

It’s like watching those kittening roof campers in Battlefield 2, can’t get to them and can’t really kill them, and can’t ignore them. You just have to sit there, and babysit them for the rest of the match… “fun”…

Solution: play a ranger, use Sic ’Em. Reveals all stealthed enemies and your pet deals extra damage for a short time.

I’m actually leveling up a ranger right now for the sole purpose of this. Still doesn’t change my position on stealthing however. If every class was in some way able to apply revealed, then I’d shut my mouth. However, they can’t.

Morfedel.4165:

I’m curious… how would you do stealth differently?

I wouldn’t do stealth at all. It’s a coward’s way.

Scrambles.2604:

Just like chess, if you want to have the advantage over your opponent you have to be one step ahead of them. This includes predicting their actions, whether you can see them or not.

Both sides can play the predicting game. One side can see their opponent, the other can not.

Using your chess example, this is the case of a game where one player can’t see his opponent’s pieces.

In decent games you can’t stealth while attacking. Once you attack, you are committed. None of this hit, stealth, regain HP. Attack, stealth no sense. This game has the single worst stealth mechanic ever in any game.

This is mostly a L2P issue. People cry about stealth/thieves/rogues/assassins in every MMO and the fact of the matter is ANet is not going to nerf thieves so you can win your 1v1 duels. Thieves prey on stragglers and the injured. That’s pretty much their thing so rather than crying about them, I suggest you learn how to counter them.

If you have a problem with it, roll with your zerg or small group.

Not in is game. As a thief, I find stealth much more opd in this game because I can stealth while in combat, lol

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

LordByron.8369:

I think you should post this in thief forum and ask them …. good thief players (those you can t kill) will explain you are wrong.
Expecially for www some called this build a paraphrase of “beginner friendly”.

It isn’t beginner friendly. The low HP and Armor means that the player does not have any room for mistakes. Most of their traits and stat allocation will be focused on damage so they wont have very many survivability traits, if at all.

Since thieves lack decent healing and condition removal, killing them is a matter of who hits the hardest first. A little bit of situation awareness and timing will go a long way.

I simply disagree. It is beginner friendly. I have found the perma stealth thief to be laughably opd, able to troll 5+ enemies without any trouble. It’s the worst mechanic I have ever experienced, even though I’ve benefitted from it.

No it isn’t. S/P, D/D evasion/conditions and P/D are more user friendly and each of them are able to kill GC BS thieves. Most of all, none of them need stealth to do so.

But the best one vs. GC BS thieves is D/D conditions because not only will the constant bleed stacks melt the thief but D/D is the best set for chasing. Heartseeker for gap closers and Dancing Dagger/Caltrops/Uncatchable/Dagger Storm for near permanent Cripple will make the thief’s 50% running speed in stealth useless.

Most of all d/d conditions requires no set up, no stealth and has a decent evade uptime.

As a theorycrafter who has played the thief profession for over a year, I would recommend D/D conditions over GC BS anyday. In fact, I would suggest you use D/D conditions when you finally decide to take up one of the 30+ challenges made to you on the thief forums. You will have a much easier time with them.

Thank you for this post LoreChief. As someone who has every class at level 80 for some time now and has used each of them extensively, I still don’t consider thieves to be OP. Never have. Whenever I play against one, I find it a fun and most definitely winnable challenge.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

This is mostly a L2P issue. People cry about stealth/thieves/rogues/assassins in every MMO and the fact of the matter is ANet is not going to nerf thieves so you can win your 1v1 duels. Thieves prey on stragglers and the injured. That’s pretty much their thing so rather than crying about them, I suggest you learn how to counter them.

If you have a problem with it, roll with your zerg or small group.

Maybe the reason that people cry about stealth classes in every MMO is because stealth is broken in every MMO.

6 non-thieves had to spend 20 minutes whacking thin air on top of a keep in EB. HUrr durr stealth rez the mesmer. Now it’s time to catch 2 invisible rats.

While I’d love to read your long post, I can already tell you that I have seen thieves take on/elude entire zergs for hours. There’s no way any profession should have that kind of power…

Assassins were so great in original Guild Wars… No stealth needed, all they had was shadowstepping and powerful healing to keep themselves up.

Rogues in WoW supposedly pulled the same reasons to claim they weren’t overpowered because stealth didn’t make them invulnerable.
But that didn’t stop the very MECHANIC making them one of the strongest PvP classes for around ~8 years in a row (while all other classes went though a rollercoaster ride of balance). They probably still are, I haven’t played for a while.

Face it, stealth classes in MMO’s are impossible to balance. Any class which has the ability to reset the fight at will holds the advantage.

Wintel.4873:

Rogues in WoW supposedly pulled the same reasons to claim they weren’t overpowered because stealth didn’t make them invulnerable.
But that didn’t stop the very MECHANIC making them one of the strongest PvP classes for around ~8 years in a row (while all other classes went though a rollercoaster ride of balance). They probably still are, I haven’t played for a while.

Face it, stealth classes in MMO’s are impossible to balance. Any class which has the ability to reset the fight at will holds the advantage.

No the strongest thing in PvP is, and have always been, good players. Good players know how to read others and determine the best action to take on the fly. Good players know how build their characters to compliment their playstyle and get the most optimum balance of survivability and damage based upon it.

In fact, most of the time the people who have a serious problem with stealth are those who have almost no knowledge about the profession.

The visual effect is psychological and requires more mental agility than normal to do anything with. Dealing with stealth has always been a L2P issue.

My two favorite classes are Ranger and Thief…. I abandoned both when the Shortbow range nerf hit. Shortbow as far as thief goes is really one of the worst damage weapons with exception of Cluster Bomb. It could have had the damage reworked and kept its range to keep it a viable playstyle, but alas, Thieves were made to be close to mid ranged. Ranger, I played a Shortbow/Greatsword build, I don’t want to invest time in a Greatsword/Longbow, as for me, it doesn’t mesh as a well, although a very viable build.

I once upon a time played a Guardian, but the game play was far to slow for me, they are truly great defensive beasts which I never had a problem with Thieves.

I currently play a unique Bunker Warrior, of course I need to tweak him to be more in between bunker and DPS. But I don’t have much problem with 99% of thieves. They generally give themselves away, or when they do target me, its not just 1, its like 3, and then the 1 minute and 30 second fight ensues in which either they chase me half way across the map and get caught up with others or they are able to finally tear me health down until I hit the floor.

That’s sort of why I am saddened by the comment that was made regarding warriors. To either use Ogre or other runes to make up the damage loss instead of Melandru or Lyssa runes. Lyssa runes really only benefited us for the Boons and Cleanse. Melandru for the Conditions duration deduction. Ogre runes gives us a Hyena and other junk. I feel its a bad comparison.

Thieves are so squishy and I find that all I need to do on my ele is apply enough chill and cripple then they’re cake. Stealth is quite manageable and I don’t support thieves getting nerfed. I love a good fight against a thief and I think they should be able to use all the tools at their disposal to give me one.

Sanduskel.1850:

if you don’t know how to be invisible with stealth, you are doing something wrong. lol

:D It’s okay Sanduskel, I used to get invencible an invisible mixed up too when I was in elementary school. They’re kind of tricky words in english especially if it’s not your first language. But that’s why you can always count on others on the internet to correct your spelling mistakes. I definitely have to agree if you’re still visible in stealth then you’re doing something wrong, or you tried to stealth when you had revealed on.

Anyways, to the actual thread…

If anyone at any point wants to say that something about a thief should be nerfed, please feel free to do it on this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Wish-list
It’s a simple nerf wish list for thieves. Format is simple:
What: <The skill or the thing you want nerfed>
Why: <Your reasoning as to why it should be nerfed>

Well done Lorechief. You are exactly right in everything you said. Not to mention you phrased it perfectly.

Couldn’t agree more.

Zacchary.6183:

Wintel.4873:

Rogues in WoW supposedly pulled the same reasons to claim they weren’t overpowered because stealth didn’t make them invulnerable.
But that didn’t stop the very MECHANIC making them one of the strongest PvP classes for around ~8 years in a row (while all other classes went though a rollercoaster ride of balance). They probably still are, I haven’t played for a while.

Face it, stealth classes in MMO’s are impossible to balance. Any class which has the ability to reset the fight at will holds the advantage.

No the strongest thing in PvP is, and have always been, good players. Good players know how to read others and determine the best action to take on the fly. Good players know how build their characters to compliment their playstyle and get the most optimum balance of survivability and damage based upon it.

In fact, most of the time the people who have a serious problem with stealth are those who have almost no knowledge about the profession.

The visual effect is psychological and requires more mental agility than normal to do anything with. Dealing with stealth has always been a L2P issue.

and that is why stealth has always been so broken, how can you effectively read someone who is invisible 90% of the time?

Stealth is not a fun mechanic to play against. It never will be. It isn’t that it is op, it is just that it is not any fun for the person who doesn’t have stealth

Sepreh.5924:

Stealth is not a fun mechanic to play against. It never will be. It isn’t that it is op, it is just that it is not any fun for the person who doesn’t have stealth

I would be fine with it if every other class had some form of counter to it.

Julie Yann.5379:

Sepreh.5924:

Stealth is not a fun mechanic to play against. It never will be. It isn’t that it is op, it is just that it is not any fun for the person who doesn’t have stealth

I would be fine with it if every other class had some form of counter to it.

Yeah, agreed. Right now the counter is to spam skills in hopes of hitting them. That’s just not fun

Sepreh.5924:

Julie Yann.5379:

Sepreh.5924:

Stealth is not a fun mechanic to play against. It never will be. It isn’t that it is op, it is just that it is not any fun for the person who doesn’t have stealth

I would be fine with it if every other class had some form of counter to it.

Yeah, agreed. Right now the counter is to spam skills in hopes of hitting them. That’s just not fun

If there comes out a way to counter, like force a reveal then they should give us prema-stealth without question (look at other games, WoW for instance).

Have you tried running in a straight line after the thief stealths? Possibly dodge rolling while running in a straight line? I mean the most common is the backstab that’s followed shortly after the thief stealths. Dropping AoE around yourself… Channeling a spell before they enter stealth (pretty sure the missiles fly towards them… could be wrong on this one.) Considering they went into stealth possibly to heal up, AoE damaging them would be a kitten, not to mention if that AoE re-applies a condition…
:/ Plus unless you’re running some glassy kitten (and/or up leveled) build you should be able to take a hit…

It isn’t fair that we don’t have 1200 range attacks…. or stuns out the kitten …. or clones … or 20 different skills for 1 weapon set…. or being melee while having second lowest armor and lowest health pool…. It isn’t fair that half the skills/traits are broken (Dancing dagger to name one, it’s random when and if it works/lands)… nor is it fun to play against those that do have these properties (hey look i just did what you did XD ).

Julie Yann.5379:

Zacchary.6183:

Wintel.4873:

Rogues in WoW supposedly pulled the same reasons to claim they weren’t overpowered because stealth didn’t make them invulnerable.
But that didn’t stop the very MECHANIC making them one of the strongest PvP classes for around ~8 years in a row (while all other classes went though a rollercoaster ride of balance). They probably still are, I haven’t played for a while.

Face it, stealth classes in MMO’s are impossible to balance. Any class which has the ability to reset the fight at will holds the advantage.

No the strongest thing in PvP is, and have always been, good players. Good players know how to read others and determine the best action to take on the fly. Good players know how build their characters to compliment their playstyle and get the most optimum balance of survivability and damage based upon it.

In fact, most of the time the people who have a serious problem with stealth are those who have almost no knowledge about the profession.

The visual effect is psychological and requires more mental agility than normal to do anything with. Dealing with stealth has always been a L2P issue.

and that is why stealth has always been so broken, how can you effectively read someone who is invisible 90% of the time?

By knowing how the profession is played.

You are thinking WAY too deeply into it. Of course, you can’t tell exactly where he is going, however you can pinpoint where he will eventually end up by monitoring him until he stealths.

By playing a thief, you understand their options and make an educated guess on their next move.

This post is ridiculous. Your answer to an Ele fighting a thief is to D/D or Staff Auto attack? Rofl. How do we hit something we can’t really target with staff auto attack? You can’t select where the fireballs land. Not to mention Staff is pretty much fail for any 1v1 fight in the game. As for D/D, thieves can mostly just kite them around or go into stealth and destroy D/D because they have to be close to do any damage.

You seem to forget that thieves also have the ability to dodge roll, heal themselves, and generally do anything they want to escape the fight if it is not going their way.

Thieves are overpowered. All MMO’s that have had a stealth class with high burst damage have pretty much ALWAYS had balance issues with them and high populations. This is not because “Good” players flock to stealth classes, it’s pretty much because they are always overpowered. MMO developers have a kitten for creating stealth classes with significantly large damage and easy get-away tools, which in turn creates classes that are easy mode.