Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?

In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.

Because when you make something like that competitive, it changes the nature of the entire player base. People start looking at things like gear scores. Things become more elitist. People in your guild want to do stuff faster, to get more, so they don’t have to do it as much.

Right now, when I do a dungeon, I’m HAPPY to take my time. Do you know I never knew about the hidden event in AC? I saw it today for the first time. I kill stuff instead of running past stuff.

By encouraging people to do things faster, or more skilled, you’re taking the fun out of it for me. Because I like a nice, relaxed, leisurely pace…and it wouldn’t stay like that. Eventually I’d just stop doing dungeons.

I didn’t speed farm or FFF in Guild Wars 1 for a reason.

And you tell other people MMO’s aren’t for them?! Min/maxing and speed runs are as part of MMO’s as they are ingrained in our human nature to want to do this bigger, better & faster.

I agree that one should make content that doesn’t overly stress the need to do this, and perhaps that was a flaw in my quickly thought out example.

However, if I may be so bold to finish our conversation with the same thing that started it:
“Perhaps, if you don’t like min/maxing and content runners, MMO’s aren’t for you.”

I don’t actually believe this, but I thought it somewhat appropriate given the circumstances.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?

In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.

Because when you make something like that competitive, it changes the nature of the entire player base. People start looking at things like gear scores. Things become more elitist. People in your guild want to do stuff faster, to get more, so they don’t have to do it as much.

Right now, when I do a dungeon, I’m HAPPY to take my time. Do you know I never knew about the hidden event in AC? I saw it today for the first time. I kill stuff instead of running past stuff.

By encouraging people to do things faster, or more skilled, you’re taking the fun out of it for me. Because I like a nice, relaxed, leisurely pace…and it wouldn’t stay like that. Eventually I’d just stop doing dungeons.

I didn’t speed farm or FFF in Guild Wars 1 for a reason.

And you tell other people MMO’s aren’t for them?! Min/maxing and speed runs are as part of MMO’s as they are ingrained in our human nature to want to do this bigger, better & faster.

I agree that one should make content that doesn’t overly stress the need to do this, and perhaps that was a flaw in my quickly thought out example.

However, if I may be so bold to finish our conversation with the same thing that started it:
“Perhaps, if you don’t like min/maxing and content runners, MMO’s aren’t for you.”

I don’t actually believe this, but I thought it someone appropriate given the circumstances.

I’m relatively sure there are far more casual MMO players as far as taking content casually and not being competitive than there are hard core players who want to compete. That’s why all the major encounters get dumbed down and the hard-core component get kitten off.

There really needs to be multiple levels of difficulty…like right now. I can run almost any dungeon at will…except Arah. Yes, I’ve beat a path of Arah, but without everyone knowing what they’re doing, you’re not likely to do well against Lupi. I can do it on a good day. lol

I just think that given what we’ve seen in other MMOs, the more challenging stuff doesn’t stay challenging.

that’s why they need to fix the guild system. So those leisure players can have a tightly knit group that can set time to do things casually. That’s what I like, but I don’t see the point in limiting people in order to make those who don’t want to be competitive in the game, be able to compete. there are plenty of casual players in the game. without gear progression and titles everyone can be accepted in these groups without restriction. I never speed cleared any dungeons in gw1 even though that was the competitive scene, I did as I wanted and in the past it worked. guilds are usually centered around a bunch of people with a similar mindset and there are plenty of guilds that will accept you and play the same way as you.

Dailies are no fun for the majority and give a reward that has no value in the first place. What’s the point of the better armor if I get it anyway and it’s better than max exotic armor? I can’t leisurely enjoy fractals because of this restriction to the armor and dailies just support this stupid idea by giving you a resource that’s only useful for it. Why not just let me have the armor in the first place instead of it being a long, grueling process that restricts how fast I can obtain it? I’m forced to play casually competitive, if that makes sense.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?

In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.

Because when you make something like that competitive, it changes the nature of the entire player base. People start looking at things like gear scores. Things become more elitist. People in your guild want to do stuff faster, to get more, so they don’t have to do it as much.

Right now, when I do a dungeon, I’m HAPPY to take my time. Do you know I never knew about the hidden event in AC? I saw it today for the first time. I kill stuff instead of running past stuff.

By encouraging people to do things faster, or more skilled, you’re taking the fun out of it for me. Because I like a nice, relaxed, leisurely pace…and it wouldn’t stay like that. Eventually I’d just stop doing dungeons.

I didn’t speed farm or FFF in Guild Wars 1 for a reason.

And you tell other people MMO’s aren’t for them?! Min/maxing and speed runs are as part of MMO’s as they are ingrained in our human nature to want to do this bigger, better & faster.

I agree that one should make content that doesn’t overly stress the need to do this, and perhaps that was a flaw in my quickly thought out example.

However, if I may be so bold to finish our conversation with the same thing that started it:
“Perhaps, if you don’t like min/maxing and content runners, MMO’s aren’t for you.”

I don’t actually believe this, but I thought it someone appropriate given the circumstances.

I’m relatively sure there are far more casual MMO players as far as taking content casually and not being competitive than there are hard core players who want to compete. That’s why all the major encounters get dumbed down and the hard-core component get kitten off.

There really needs to be multiple levels of difficulty…like right now. I can run almost any dungeon at will…except Arah. Yes, I’ve beat a path of Arah, but without everyone knowing what they’re doing, you’re not likely to do well against Lupi. I can do it on a good day. lol

I just think that given what we’ve seen in other MMOs, the more challenging stuff doesn’t stay challenging.

I disagree about more casual players than hardcore players. But agree with the rest.

I do agree that most people don’t want to speed clear dungeons, although I wouldn’t say that everyone that doesn’t is casual.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?

In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.

Because when you make something like that competitive, it changes the nature of the entire player base. People start looking at things like gear scores. Things become more elitist. People in your guild want to do stuff faster, to get more, so they don’t have to do it as much.

Right now, when I do a dungeon, I’m HAPPY to take my time. Do you know I never knew about the hidden event in AC? I saw it today for the first time. I kill stuff instead of running past stuff.

By encouraging people to do things faster, or more skilled, you’re taking the fun out of it for me. Because I like a nice, relaxed, leisurely pace…and it wouldn’t stay like that. Eventually I’d just stop doing dungeons.

I didn’t speed farm or FFF in Guild Wars 1 for a reason.

And you tell other people MMO’s aren’t for them?! Min/maxing and speed runs are as part of MMO’s as they are ingrained in our human nature to want to do this bigger, better & faster.

I agree that one should make content that doesn’t overly stress the need to do this, and perhaps that was a flaw in my quickly thought out example.

However, if I may be so bold to finish our conversation with the same thing that started it:
“Perhaps, if you don’t like min/maxing and content runners, MMO’s aren’t for you.”

I don’t actually believe this, but I thought it someone appropriate given the circumstances.

I’m relatively sure there are far more casual MMO players as far as taking content casually and not being competitive than there are hard core players who want to compete. That’s why all the major encounters get dumbed down and the hard-core component get kitten off.

There really needs to be multiple levels of difficulty…like right now. I can run almost any dungeon at will…except Arah. Yes, I’ve beat a path of Arah, but without everyone knowing what they’re doing, you’re not likely to do well against Lupi. I can do it on a good day. lol

I just think that given what we’ve seen in other MMOs, the more challenging stuff doesn’t stay challenging.

I disagree about more casual players than hardcore players. But agree with the rest.

I do agree that most people don’t want to speed clear dungeons, although I wouldn’t say that everyone that doesn’t is casual.

I think if you talk to anyone from any MMO, you’ll find out there are more casuals than hard core. For a lot of people, it’s a big big problem. That’s why raids in most games keep getting dumbed down till people actually bother doing them.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?

In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.

Because when you make something like that competitive, it changes the nature of the entire player base. People start looking at things like gear scores. Things become more elitist. People in your guild want to do stuff faster, to get more, so they don’t have to do it as much.

Right now, when I do a dungeon, I’m HAPPY to take my time. Do you know I never knew about the hidden event in AC? I saw it today for the first time. I kill stuff instead of running past stuff.

By encouraging people to do things faster, or more skilled, you’re taking the fun out of it for me. Because I like a nice, relaxed, leisurely pace…and it wouldn’t stay like that. Eventually I’d just stop doing dungeons.

I didn’t speed farm or FFF in Guild Wars 1 for a reason.

And you tell other people MMO’s aren’t for them?! Min/maxing and speed runs are as part of MMO’s as they are ingrained in our human nature to want to do this bigger, better & faster.

I agree that one should make content that doesn’t overly stress the need to do this, and perhaps that was a flaw in my quickly thought out example.

However, if I may be so bold to finish our conversation with the same thing that started it:
“Perhaps, if you don’t like min/maxing and content runners, MMO’s aren’t for you.”

I don’t actually believe this, but I thought it someone appropriate given the circumstances.

I’m relatively sure there are far more casual MMO players as far as taking content casually and not being competitive than there are hard core players who want to compete. That’s why all the major encounters get dumbed down and the hard-core component get kitten off.

There really needs to be multiple levels of difficulty…like right now. I can run almost any dungeon at will…except Arah. Yes, I’ve beat a path of Arah, but without everyone knowing what they’re doing, you’re not likely to do well against Lupi. I can do it on a good day. lol

I just think that given what we’ve seen in other MMOs, the more challenging stuff doesn’t stay challenging.

I disagree about more casual players than hardcore players. But agree with the rest.

I do agree that most people don’t want to speed clear dungeons, although I wouldn’t say that everyone that doesn’t is casual.

I think if you talk to anyone from any MMO, you’ll find out there are more casuals than hard core. For a lot of people, it’s a big big problem. That’s why raids in most games keep getting dumbed down till people actually bother doing them.

Again, you have little proof of this.

I always looked at it that MMO’s usually require a pretty good PC. Something built for gaming. I don’t think many casual players want to spend the money for a gaming PC. Most are content to buy $300 consoles or tablets.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a safer argument than “go talk to people in MMO’s and you’ll see I’m right.”

You hardly need a pretty good PC:

Windows® XP Service Pack 2 or better
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo 2.0 GHz, Core i3, AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 or better
2 GB RAM
NVIDIA® GeForce® 7800, ATI Radeon™ X1800, Intel HD 3000 or better (256MB of video RAM and shader model 3.0 or better)
25 GB available HDD space
Broadband Internet connection
Keyboard and mouse

The cheapest possible computer package at best buy for $400 gives you well beyond these minimum requirements.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

But, it would allow for competition without needing every player to be competitive. You yourself tout that the beauty of ascended gear is that you don’t need it. How would this be any different?

In either case, it isn’t really worth discussing. I think the point is that competition would need to be optional. Which I agree with.

Because when you make something like that competitive, it changes the nature of the entire player base. People start looking at things like gear scores. Things become more elitist. People in your guild want to do stuff faster, to get more, so they don’t have to do it as much.

Right now, when I do a dungeon, I’m HAPPY to take my time. Do you know I never knew about the hidden event in AC? I saw it today for the first time. I kill stuff instead of running past stuff.

By encouraging people to do things faster, or more skilled, you’re taking the fun out of it for me. Because I like a nice, relaxed, leisurely pace…and it wouldn’t stay like that. Eventually I’d just stop doing dungeons.

I didn’t speed farm or FFF in Guild Wars 1 for a reason.

And you tell other people MMO’s aren’t for them?! Min/maxing and speed runs are as part of MMO’s as they are ingrained in our human nature to want to do this bigger, better & faster.

I agree that one should make content that doesn’t overly stress the need to do this, and perhaps that was a flaw in my quickly thought out example.

However, if I may be so bold to finish our conversation with the same thing that started it:
“Perhaps, if you don’t like min/maxing and content runners, MMO’s aren’t for you.”

I don’t actually believe this, but I thought it someone appropriate given the circumstances.

I’m relatively sure there are far more casual MMO players as far as taking content casually and not being competitive than there are hard core players who want to compete. That’s why all the major encounters get dumbed down and the hard-core component get kitten off.

There really needs to be multiple levels of difficulty…like right now. I can run almost any dungeon at will…except Arah. Yes, I’ve beat a path of Arah, but without everyone knowing what they’re doing, you’re not likely to do well against Lupi. I can do it on a good day. lol

I just think that given what we’ve seen in other MMOs, the more challenging stuff doesn’t stay challenging.

I disagree about more casual players than hardcore players. But agree with the rest.

I do agree that most people don’t want to speed clear dungeons, although I wouldn’t say that everyone that doesn’t is casual.

I think if you talk to anyone from any MMO, you’ll find out there are more casuals than hard core. For a lot of people, it’s a big big problem. That’s why raids in most games keep getting dumbed down till people actually bother doing them.

Again, you have little proof of this.

I always looked at it that MMO’s usually require a pretty good PC. Something built for gaming. I don’t think many casual players want to spend the money for a gaming PC. Most are content to buy $300 consoles or tablets.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a safer argument than “go talk to people in MMO’s and you’ll see I’m right.”

Most MMOs have very low requirements. You can almost play WoW on a calculator. That’s an exaageration but not much of one. Most MMOs have very low requirements because they want to maximize the people who can play.

TBH, since the daily’s changed I haven’t been doing them at all.. Before it was all doable in one area (maybe look around for the variety of mob kills) but now it seem one has to go different places to complete them. So I am just ignoring the daily thing..

Don’t like them, don’t do them. Nobody is holding a gun to your head.

Jemmi.6058:

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, after 6 pages of arguing and complaining, I believe I’ve seen two actual suggestions:

1. Change the daily requirements to a weekly that can be completed in one longer session
2. Eliminate laurels from dailies

The first is guaranteed to not please everyone. Some people are happy to see players spread out to different zones. Players who like the focus provided by having daily objectives.

The second suggestion might mean putting laurel acquisition into a different type of content. Since we don’t know what that would be, it’s hard to judge the reactions to it — but I’m betting someone, maybe many someones, are going to be angry. The other option would be to eliminate laurels altogether. This would result in FotM being once again the only way to gain Ascended Rings and large guild missions as the only means to gain earrings. Amulets would have to be put into some other form of content. Again, you’re going to have some portion of the player-base cheesed off.

I’m still waiting for a good suggestion.

You forget..

3. Leave it as it is.

That is my personal preference, but let’s see if we can find out other suggestions.

4. Remove dailies and attach laurels to regular achievement points. You gain them for every xth tier completed (such as 5th tier?)

5. Have dailies roll over if they are not completed by the time of reset

6. Have all possible dailies available every day, rather than 9 random ones

7. Have different tiers of dailies Gain silver for completing 1 daily, gain the exp bonus for 3 dailies, gain laurel for completing 5 dailies, gain a 2nd laurel for completing all 9 (or whatever)

8. Allow for a daily type to be repeated, i.e. you can do daily gatherer 5x for daily reward

I’ll take what’s behind option #3 for 2 laurels… I’d also take option 6.

TooBz.3065:

9. Make dalies more fun. This is subjective, but personally, I think a single substantial task that takes some effort (i.e. complete a specific jumping puzzle, kill a champion, kill a dragon, defend a tower (keep, whatever) in WvW) is better than completing five tedious ones.

While I’m a fan of fun, imagine the outcry when a particular daily focused on WvW, or dungeons, or whatever player x is not inclined to do. The player base cannot even come to a consensus that dailies are OK with options, eliminating the options will make for more complaints than we have now — unless daily rewards are neutered to a point that no one cares about them at all.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

I think if you talk to anyone from any MMO, you’ll find out there are more casuals than hard core. For a lot of people, it’s a big big problem. That’s why raids in most games keep getting dumbed down till people actually bother doing them.

Again, you have little proof of this.

I always looked at it that MMO’s usually require a pretty good PC. Something built for gaming. I don’t think many casual players want to spend the money for a gaming PC. Most are content to buy $300 consoles or tablets.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a safer argument than “go talk to people in MMO’s and you’ll see I’m right.”

Crysis requires a pretty good PC but most MMOs don’t. GW2 needs a heftier pc than the norm but its not a graphics issue… its an optimization issue. Heck it runs fine on my 4 year old system on high detail.

As for what Vayne is describing, you can lookup what Ghostcrawler, the main dev for World of Warcraft, had to say. I’ll give you a little snippet from an article about raid difficulty:

The other interesting note he makes is that they don’t want to spend several months of development time on content that less than 5% of players will ever see. One can connect their statements that they “won’t ever make an instance as hard as Sunwell again” and then this statement together and form the conclusion that only 5% of players saw Sunwell.

As for hardcore and casual. Vayne is using a very different definition than you; the one used on most MMO forums. Seeing as you haven’t played any other MMO (except GW1 and 2, which don’t count) I can see why you don’t understand what he’s saying.

As for Dailys.. they help daily concurrency which isn’t a bad thing

Xia.3485:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

I think if you talk to anyone from any MMO, you’ll find out there are more casuals than hard core. For a lot of people, it’s a big big problem. That’s why raids in most games keep getting dumbed down till people actually bother doing them.

Again, you have little proof of this.

I always looked at it that MMO’s usually require a pretty good PC. Something built for gaming. I don’t think many casual players want to spend the money for a gaming PC. Most are content to buy $300 consoles or tablets.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a safer argument than “go talk to people in MMO’s and you’ll see I’m right.”

Crysis requires a pretty good PC but most MMOs don’t. GW2 needs a heftier pc than the norm but its not a graphics issue… its an optimization issue. Heck it runs fine on my 4 year old system on high detail.

As for what Vayne is describing, you can lookup what Ghostcrawler, the main dev for World of Warcraft, had to say. I’ll give you a little snippet from an article about raid difficulty:

The other interesting note he makes is that they don’t want to spend several months of development time on content that less than 5% of players will ever see. One can connect their statements that they “won’t ever make an instance as hard as Sunwell again” and then this statement together and form the conclusion that only 5% of players saw Sunwell.

As for hardcore and casual. Vayne is using a very different definition than you; the one used on most MMO forums. Seeing as you haven’t played any other MMO (except GW1 and 2, which don’t count) I can see why you don’t understand what he’s saying.

As for Dailys.. they help daily concurrency which isn’t a bad thing

Dang Xia, that might be the nicest post I have ever had from you. Can’t say I disagree either.

Xia.3485:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

I think if you talk to anyone from any MMO, you’ll find out there are more casuals than hard core. For a lot of people, it’s a big big problem. That’s why raids in most games keep getting dumbed down till people actually bother doing them.

Again, you have little proof of this.

I always looked at it that MMO’s usually require a pretty good PC. Something built for gaming. I don’t think many casual players want to spend the money for a gaming PC. Most are content to buy $300 consoles or tablets.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a safer argument than “go talk to people in MMO’s and you’ll see I’m right.”

Crysis requires a pretty good PC but most MMOs don’t. GW2 needs a heftier pc than the norm but its not a graphics issue… its an optimization issue. Heck it runs fine on my 4 year old system on high detail.

As for what Vayne is describing, you can lookup what Ghostcrawler, the main dev for World of Warcraft, had to say. I’ll give you a little snippet from an article about raid difficulty:

The other interesting note he makes is that they don’t want to spend several months of development time on content that less than 5% of players will ever see. One can connect their statements that they “won’t ever make an instance as hard as Sunwell again” and then this statement together and form the conclusion that only 5% of players saw Sunwell.

As for hardcore and casual. Vayne is using a very different definition than you; the one used on most MMO forums. Seeing as you haven’t played any other MMO (except GW1 and 2, which don’t count) I can see why you don’t understand what he’s saying.

As for Dailys.. they help daily concurrency which isn’t a bad thing

Yep, I’m using the stock-standard hard-core MMO definition. Didn’t realize we weren’t on the same page.

When you put hard content in an MMO only a tiny percentage of the player base ever gets to it…and because of that, only a tiny percentage of the player base ever cares about it. For a long time it was like DoA in Guild Wars 1 for me. I didn’t care about it…and after I beat it once, I never cared about it again. It’s not my type of content. If it didn’t exist, it wouldn’t have changed my game at all.

But the thing is, there are all kinds of groups of people who aren’t competitive in PvE. RPer’s of course, soloers, of which there are more than many believe, immersion players like myself, people with busy schedules who just want to log on a kill stuff, people who use the game like a social networking site, and hardly play at all..you’d be stunned at how many different people play MMOs that don’t really care about hard content at all.

Look at AC. When it was easy, everyone was running it. Now it’s harder and on one cares. In fact the dungeon people run the most is the easiest, CoF path 1. There are Arah runs, but there are far more people who never finished or even attempted an Arah explorable mode dungeon than there are people who beat it.