Guild Wars 2

Boom boom turret does take condition damage…

I agree. When you face a boss, control builds have few effects. And this is very frustrating.

An clever way of designing this turret would have been: If the turret have confusions stacks, it harm BBB instead of healing her. Same with poison.
And a wonderful thing would have been: feedback (for the mesmer) will harm the turret.
But, you have to zerg. Zerg, zerg everywhere (even if ANet took a good way with the modifications of the events, considering last year…).

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

Are there other bosses other than malrona and Wurm who are not reflectable anymore?
I agree that reflecting the projectiles at full power on some bosses is a little bit op but just make reflect not work anymore is maximum level of cheapness and they dont even tell that they did.
Increasing drop rate of Scrolls of knowledge in BL Chests is important but that not, what
-_-

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Stones and spits from generic Wurms no longer reflectable

They now even seem to ignore Aegis. Also they spit faster now .. very annoying when you just want to harvest some Ori / Ancient Wood in Frostgorge near some Wurm

David.9807:

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

We and other dungeon guilds have either been using one warrior or zero warriors for world records. Guess why? The DPS isn’t good – you just want them for banners and empower allies. Thieves, non-fgs eles and triple phantasm mesmers surpass the DPS of warriors. Necromancers and guardians are on-par or maybe even slightly higher.

maha.7902:

We and other dungeon guilds have either been using one warrior or zero warriors for world records. Guess why? The DPS isn’t good – you just want them for banners and empower allies. Thieves, non-fgs eles and triple phantasm mesmers surpass the DPS of warriors. Necromancers and guardians are on-par or maybe even slightly higher.

But but… I spent 200g levelling my warrior with crafting! I want him to have the best dps in the game!

Beldin.5498:

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Stones and spits from generic Wurms no longer reflectable

They now even seem to ignore Aegis. Also they spit faster now .. very annoying when you just want to harvest some Ori / Ancient Wood in Frostgorge near some Wurm

Or working on your dodge. :p

My Elementalist has a shield (staff, earth, 3 – I think?) that used to reflect them, and I’d use it when my stammy was low to get ready for another dodge. And yes, the frequency is crazy.

With respect to the OP and Jungle Wurm. No sympathy there. You should not get to one shot a world boss, whether it’s one that has to be killed by the Lambda Lambda Lambda frat house or an easy PUG one. It was something that could be used to disrupt others’ play, and I’m glad it’s gone. There were some Mesmers that were good about waiting until everyone got settled in and used it at about 50%, and that was very nice of them, but at the end of the day, there are too many people that get their satisfaction in life solely out of seeing others’ misery while being immune to the misery inflicted.

But with respect to things like wurm spits and such on normal mobs, I feel bad that you lost a lot of that, especially if it didn’t hurt anyone else.

David.9807:

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

What am I reading

Taku.6352:

Boom boom turret does take condition damage…

So it can be confused, burned, poisoned, tormented, chilled, feared? Okay…

maha.7902:

David.9807:

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

We and other dungeon guilds have either been using one warrior or zero warriors for world records. Guess why? The DPS isn’t good – you just want them for banners and empower allies. Thieves, non-fgs eles and triple phantasm mesmers surpass the DPS of warriors. Necromancers and guardians are on-par or maybe even slightly higher.

A zerk warrior has best DPS-survivability-skill ratio in an unorganised group, which is IMO 90% of GW2 gameplay. A good glass-canon might-stacking ele with a lightning hammer will bring more to a group stacked in a corner and will survive with proper dodges, interrupts and aegis from party members; a bad warrior will provide more DPS by smashing buttons and for longer than a bad ele who got downed by a grenade barrage while casting meteor shower (and a good ele who popped swirling winds to reflect grenades as well, by the way).

If we take Crown Pavillion for instance, my experience at Boom-Boom tells me that a group consisting of 4-5 warriors plus 1-2 eles with ice bows usually deals very good DPS and 5:00 on timer left with Boom-Boom ready at 5% is possible, while a mix of rangers, necros, thieves, engies and what not generally cannot reach it.

notebene.3190:

With respect to the OP and Jungle Wurm. No sympathy there. You should not get to one shot a world boss, whether it’s one that has to be killed by the Lambda Lambda Lambda frat house or an easy PUG one.

See here:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Feedback insta-killing Jungle Wurm? Make attacks unreflectable instead of tweaking damage.

Obviously no attack should one-shot a boss. But making these attacks unreflectable instead of making them do little (but proportionate to weapon skills) damage is a lazy fix (just as many others we often see in the game).

Brutal Arts.6307:

David.9807:

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

What am I reading

Indeed. I went to bed last night knowing that warriors were one of the highest most sought-after DPSers. I wake up today and they are suddenly crap; only good for their banners? Then I read things like… this….

maha.7902:

…Necromancers… are on-par or maybe even slightly higher [than warriors].

What.

Are you really surprised? Or are you comparing the now well-known dps builds of warrior with a subpar condi build of necro?

Fror.2163:

Are you really surprised? Or are you comparing the now well-known dps builds of warrior with a subpar condi build of necro?

I’m not comparing any specific build. I’d love to know how a necro does more dps and bring more group utility than a warrior.

I’m also confused as to why the topic so quickly flew off on a tangent discussion about warriors. AFAIK mesmers have the most reflects and would be the most impacted by this issue. Why aren’t we talking about them?

Lishtenbird.2814:

notebene.3190:

With respect to the OP and Jungle Wurm. No sympathy there. You should not get to one shot a world boss, whether it’s one that has to be killed by the Lambda Lambda Lambda frat house or an easy PUG one.

See here:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Feedback insta-killing Jungle Wurm? Make attacks unreflectable instead of tweaking damage.

Obviously no attack should one-shot a boss. But making these attacks unreflectable instead of making them do little (but proportionate to weapon skills) damage is a lazy fix (just as many others we often see in the game).

Ah. OK that’s a good idea.

Xenon.4537:

Fror.2163:

Are you really surprised? Or are you comparing the now well-known dps builds of warrior with a subpar condi build of necro?

I’m not comparing any specific build. I’d love to know how a necro does more dps and bring more group utility than a warrior.

I’m also confused as to why the topic so quickly flew off on a tangent discussion about warriors. AFAIK mesmers have the most reflects and would be the most impacted by this issue. Why aren’t we talking about them?

Warriors are sacred cows and scapegoats at the same time. Funny

This Wiki page tells us that reflects are not limited to mesmers. However, this also affects skills which destroy projectiles (like Swirling Winds or untraited Phantasmal Warden), but I do not have a list in the Wiki to link to as far as those are concerned.

^ warriors for PvE are basically a low-risk, low return class, that’s why pugs want them, because no matter how bad the player is, you’ll at least get through the dungeon because warriors are easy to survive on even in full zerk.

But if you want maximal DPS, anything more than 1 warrior is a waste.

notebene.3190:

Beldin.5498:

They now even seem to ignore Aegis. Also they spit faster now .. very annoying when you just want to harvest some Ori / Ancient Wood in Frostgorge near some Wurm

Or working on your dodge. :p

You can’t dodge while you harvest. With Guard it was always easy to just block the first stone and harvest, with other character you could dodge and harvest after that, however that also now doesn’t work anymore since they spit faster, so you always need to kill those kitten ed wurms first. And of course then there are always those players that have to activate as much worms around you as possible.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Xenon.4537:

Fror.2163:

Are you really surprised? Or are you comparing the now well-known dps builds of warrior with a subpar condi build of necro?

I’m not comparing any specific build. I’d love to know how a necro does more dps and bring more group utility than a warrior.

I’m also confused as to why the topic so quickly flew off on a tangent discussion about warriors. AFAIK mesmers have the most reflects and would be the most impacted by this issue. Why aren’t we talking about them?

Warriors are sacred cows and scapegoats at the same time. Funny

This Wiki page tells us that reflects are not limited to mesmers. However, this also affects skills which destroy projectiles (like Swirling Winds or untraited Phantasmal Warden), but I do not have a list in the Wiki to link to as far as those are concerned.

I count 18 skills that can reflect and 5/18 are mesmer skills. In addition, some of those skills require special conditions or traits in order to reflect. Granted a trait is needed for mesmer, but mesmer is the only one on that page which can chain it’s reflects for permanent uptime. The only ones that come close to that are turret engineers with the bubble trait, and guardians with a specific setup. I’d wager Mesmer still comes out on top in DPS. Well, at least it used to until these changes were made. Sucks.

Beldin.5498:

notebene.3190:

Beldin.5498:

They now even seem to ignore Aegis. Also they spit faster now .. very annoying when you just want to harvest some Ori / Ancient Wood in Frostgorge near some Wurm

Or working on your dodge. :p

You can’t dodge while you harvest. With Guard it was always easy to just block the first stone and harvest, with other character you could dodge and harvest after that, however that also now doesn’t work anymore since they spit faster, so you always need to kill those kitten ed wurms first. And of course then there are always those players that have to activate as much worms around you as possible.

That’s why I said ‘or’?

I use the rock wurms to work on a daily dodge. I’d use my shield when I’d run out of stammy to avoid one rock, then go back to dodging.

Can’t do that now, have to take at least one rock to the knee.

Lol. Um. The Jungle Wurm was changed because it could be insta-killed with Feedback.

Would you have preferred letting mesmers who like trolling to ruin the boss every time for everyone else? I wouldn’t, and I main a mesmer. I’m guessing that if they flat-out nerfed the damage instead, it would have been a nerf to the skill itself – and that would affect us with every mob or boss with reflectable attacks. I much prefer the change they implemented.

The only projectiles not reflectable from Pyroxis are the flaming things he spits on the ground…and if you haven’t seen a way to get around that, you obviously haven’t tried him with a group that knows what they’re doing. With a group of nothing but guardians and mesmers, he becomes the easiest boss in the Pavilion. Try him with only one mesmer or guardian that can reflect and he’s a lot more difficult.

I think reflects are fine, personally.

notebene.3190:

I use the rock wurms to work on a daily dodge. I’d use my shield when I’d run out of stammy to avoid one rock, then go back to dodging.

Can’t do that now, have to take at least one rock to the knee.

Or kill the wurm now before running out of stamina and after stamina is filled up go to the next one. Works at least quite well with warrior and bow or guardian and scepter

Lishtenbird.2814:

• “Some projectiles at Jungle Wurm no longer reflectable.”

You have to know this was going to happen.

Though I admit it is frustrating that mostly everything outside of straight up DPS is being nerfed against bosses.

Xenon.4537:

Brutal Arts.6307:

David.9807:

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

What am I reading

Indeed. I went to bed last night knowing that warriors were one of the highest most sought-after DPSers. I wake up today and they are suddenly crap; only good for their banners? Then I read things like… this….

maha.7902:

…Necromancers… are on-par or maybe even slightly higher [than warriors].

What.

Well Necromancer do have good DPS. I didn’t make the comparaison Necro vs Warrior in particular but it still obvious that they are close. Still the Necro is not popular either with pugs or organized group and he’s view as one of the worst PvE profession. The reason is, he don’t cleave, making him useless except against bosses. The Warrior DPS is not enough, but the warrior bring a lot of offensive support, on the other hand the Necro have the same amout of DPS, but don’t bring much to the group. The thief have the same problem of not cleaving enough. But the thief have higher DPS, can bring blind, can stealth, have enough damage modifier to be a good FGS user and can give a good amount of vulnerability. On the other hand, Necro don’t have much good on for him. All the support he have is better in PvP and PvE.

A zerk warrior has best DPS-survivability-skill ratio in an unorganised group,

“pugs suck therefore warriors are higher dps”

nothing changes the fact that warriors are average dps, it’s just stupidly easy to hit their peak dps since they do a lot of self-buffing and can maintain massive amounts of might on themselves through forceful greatsword.

A good glass-canon might-stacking ele with a lightning hammer will bring more to a group stacked in a corner and will survive with proper dodges, interrupts and aegis from party members; a bad warrior will provide more DPS by smashing buttons and for longer than a bad ele who got downed by a grenade barrage while casting meteor shower (and a good ele who popped swirling winds to reflect grenades as well, by the way).

If we take Crown Pavillion for instance, my experience at Boom-Boom tells me that a group consisting of 4-5 warriors plus 1-2 eles with ice bows usually deals very good DPS and 5:00 on timer left with Boom-Boom ready at 5% is possible, while a mix of rangers, necros, thieves, engies and what not generally cannot reach it.

bad players are going to have bad dps no matter what class they’re on, it doesn’t make warriors better. your experience is that the rangers, engis and thieves you have played with suck, therefore you don’t think they’re capable of doing damage. we do runs with rangers and thieves all the time – engi if people want to play with it and the kill times on bosses are honestly basically identical. we have five (class) lupicus kills on obal’s profile if you want to see what times we got – it was generally classes with reflects ranked highly, classes with high might and vuln got similar times and then you had thief and necro who had slower times because of bad might and fury.

Indeed. I went to bed last night knowing that warriors were one of the highest most sought-after DPSers. I wake up today and they are suddenly crap; only good for their banners? Then I read things like… this….

if you watch the recent caudecus manor records, they literally don’t even take a warrior.

[necromancers] What.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/page/2/m/6563292/viewthread/12821718-necro-dps-trials-halp-dek

here’s the relevant dps numbers:

fully buffed group:

30/30/0/0/10 necro w/lich form – 13,920DPS
30/30/0/10/0 GS warrior – 12,919 DPS
30/30/0/0/10 d/f + d/wh necro – 10,468DPS

as a bonus for people who say guardians suck-

20/30/10/0/10 gs + sw/f guardian – 12,080DPS -WITHOUT UNSCATHED CONTENDER!-

so to correct myself – warrior DPS is higher than necro but necros aren’t low DPS junk that everyone thinks they are, lich form is a full on 1,000 more dps. ele dps for LH builds is between 12.5 and 13.2k, staff builds are higher IIRC. if a warrior is taking an empower allies build their DPS drops to like 12.4k IIRC as well.

I’m not comparing any specific build. I’d love to know how a necro does more dps and bring more group utility than a warrior.

none of us claimed utility. necromancer utility is just ….. so easily replaceable. but their DPS is honestly pretty decent.

David.9807:

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

David.9807:

maha.7902:

what are you talking about more bosses being designed for zerk warriors? you do realise they only have middle tier dps right?

Hmm middle tier dps? Thieves do NOT produce more dps than warriors, elementalists without fgs neither. And there are banners, fgj, and a lot of damage increase traits with warrior. QQ

Do the math before you embarrass yourself, OOPS too late

And this is why large boss fights turn into mindless 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 fests.
Everything but direct damage is entirely useless.

Can’t use conditions, can’t use CC, can’t use reflect. Why do we even have those options if the most important mobs to use them against are completely immune to them?

Beldin.5498:

notebene.3190:

I use the rock wurms to work on a daily dodge. I’d use my shield when I’d run out of stammy to avoid one rock, then go back to dodging.

Can’t do that now, have to take at least one rock to the knee.

Or kill the wurm now before running out of stamina and after stamina is filled up go to the next one. Works at least quite well with warrior and bow or guardian and scepter

Well I didn’t want to be a wurm hog.

Also .. has anyone else noticed that the rocks of the worms now often pull you towards you instead of push you away ?
Was totally puzzled when i first time used reflection with my Mesmer on a worm and was pulled. Just thought it was a strange bug at that time, but i think that has been happend quite some more times more.

storiessave.3807:

Lol. Um. The Jungle Wurm was changed because it could be insta-killed with Feedback.

Would you have preferred letting mesmers who like trolling to ruin the boss every time for everyone else? I wouldn’t, and I main a mesmer. I’m guessing that if they flat-out nerfed the damage instead, it would have been a nerf to the skill itself – and that would affect us with every mob or boss with reflectable attacks. I much prefer the change they implemented.

Do people read?

Lishtenbird.2814:

Feedback insta-killing Jungle Wurm? Make attacks unreflectable instead of tweaking damage.

As a person dealing with code as well I find it rather amusing how people think that you can either nerf a class skill globally, or make a boss skill entirely unreflectable, with no solutions in between.

As a person dealing with code as well I find it extremely sad that ANet coders also think that you can either nerf a class skill globally, or make a boss skill entirely unreflectable, with no solutions in between.

maha.7902:

your experience is that the rangers, engis and thieves you have played with suck, therefore you don’t think they’re capable of doing damage.

My posts today must’ve traited for Prismatic Understanding if people still fail to see what I’m telling them. All I said was that my experience tells me that an average casual warrior does more damage while surviving longer than an average casual [non-heavy class here] because if you smash buttons on a warrior you deal good DPS but if you smash buttons on a “difficult” class you deal low DPS.

And next thing I said is that “casual” gameplay is a dominant mindset in this game. If, say, in a random event you have 10% damage done by ultra-DPS non-warriors, 70% damage done by average warriors and 20% done by bad non-warriors, while you have 30% warriors and 70% non-warriors, guess which class’s average DPS is more efficient and which class is OP? Simple as that.

Xenon.4537:

I count 18 skills that can reflect and 5/18 are mesmer skills. In addition, some of those skills require special conditions or traits in order to reflect. Granted a trait is needed for mesmer, but mesmer is the only one on that page which can chain it’s reflects for permanent uptime. The only ones that come close to that are turret engineers with the bubble trait, and guardians with a specific setup. I’d wager Mesmer still comes out on top in DPS. Well, at least it used to until these changes were made. Sucks.

Traited Warden’s reflect is broken, it reflects inconsistently and only damages the target on which it was cast (broken some time ago) – plus it often doesn’t spin at all, thus not reflecting; traited temporal curtain is very low and often inefficient; traited reflect on distortion only works with F4 IIRC. So not sure about “permanent reflect uptime”, but if traited and built for reflects, a mesmer can outlast bosses like Subject 7 fairly easily. (Sorry but at this point I can’t help but remember a healing signet warrior with a rifle simply kiting Subject 7 for the achievement until it died.)

Beldin.5498:

Also .. has anyone else noticed that the rocks of the worms now often pull you towards you instead of push you away ?
Was totally puzzled when i first time used reflection with my Mesmer on a worm and was pulled. Just thought it was a strange bug at that time, but i think that has been happend quite some more times more.

Maybe they have a circular knockdown wave, like a real dropped stone has?

You know what I find interesting as an Engineer?

We’ve been discriminated the most the entire time in this game. It’s a CC/Condition focused class. Everything once could be affected by those two things but they’ve been nerfed to oblivion. No one said a word in our defense from any of the other classes in fact we were denied access to activities because we were told we were not Zerker enough.

So now the shoe is on the other foot while similtaneously they destroy the 1 thing that made turrets a tiny bit useful. The reflect shields. But this time it’s happening to other people not just us, and we’re hearing a great wailing from the deep about it now.

Where were you guys when CC/condi were nerfed hmm? What happened? Now because it’s affecting you it’s important huh?

Lishtenbird.2814:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Feedback insta-killing Jungle Wurm? Make attacks unreflectable instead of tweaking damage.

As a person dealing with code as well I find it rather amusing how people think that you can either nerf a class skill globally, or make a boss skill entirely unreflectable, with no solutions in between.

As a person dealing with code as well I find it extremely sad that ANet coders also think that you can either nerf a class skill globally, or make a boss skill entirely unreflectable, with no solutions in between.

Yeah .. as somebody who also deals with code for me it looks as if the problem is that the Wurm has unlimited targets with his attack and all those attacks are reflected now, since i can’t think that a single attack does 100.000 damage or whatever is needed to kill him instant.
So now since we have so much players on Megaserver he hits maybe 100 players with 1000 damage .. and if that all is reflected .. bamm .. there is the 100.000 damage.

Now as a fix reflect should only reflect simply 5 of those attacks, since that is the normal AoE limit, and the rest is either absorbed or still hits other players .. thats free to however they want it to work in that case.

tigirius.9014:

You know what I find interesting as an Engineer?

We’ve been discriminated the most the entire time in this game. It’s a CC/Condition focused class. Everything once could be affected by those two things but they’ve been nerfed to oblivion. No one said a word in our defense from any of the other classes in fact we were denied access to activities because we were told we were not Zerker enough.

So now the shoe is on the other foot while similtaneously they destroy the 1 thing that made turrets a tiny bit useful. The reflect shields. But this time it’s happening to other people not just us, and we’re hearing a great wailing from the deep about it now.

Where were you guys when CC/condi were nerfed hmm? What happened? Now because it’s affecting you it’s important huh?

I don’t get really get it why my post (or all mesmers?) becomes a target of aggression (instead of ANet’s design decisions). I main a mesmer and I feel that it matters, so I post it; you main an engineer – so go and post and cry enough to be heard. When you were nerfed, I haven’t been playing that game, and if I was, I wouldn’t have been maining an engineer anyway, so where’s my fault? As far as conditions are concerned, those are regularly discussed on forums and regularly ignored by devs as presumably too resource-heavy and game breaking.

As a mesmer, I can tell you that our class is being continuously bugged each patch and they even go as far as to put “buff!” and “class balancing!” labels onto bug fixes, or listing the same bug fix three times in three consecutive balance patches differently worded. We cry hard but are not heard… You cry hard and are not heard… And you know what – not being heard is neither mine no yours fault, so why hate each other?

As far as the general gameplay is concerned i get more and more the feeling that Anet basicly wants to get rid of everything useful in any support-class/build.
Let them all reroll to warriors. I´ve seen more and more of those already lately and almost none of them knows what that class can really do.

What bugs me most about this last patch atrocity is that you can´t reflect the eggs at the 3H-Wurm anymore. As long as this is not fixed, no organized group/guild/alliance/community will bother with that Boss anymore as soon as they realize that they can´t use the established tactics anymore and that there are no real alternatives. It´s pointless now to even try.
The loot on that Boss is bad enough already for the invested time and effort.
Lets just stick to Tequila and continue farming him.
I rather spawn an extra Tequatl daily then try to beat the kaputt patched 3-Wurm.

Tequatl in contest with Wurm:
~1/10 preparation/organization needed.
Pugs don´t bother much there (at wurm even one pug that wants to troll and know how can ruin the whole run for ~150 players).
Loot is about 6 times higher including Karma.

Strategy is forbidden in GW2. Everything must be a direct DMG DPS check.

Thareen.5471:

What bugs me most about this last patch atrocity is that you can´t reflect the eggs at the 3H-Wurm anymore.

Wait, what? I wrote this

Lishtenbird.2814:

Honestly, I’m already waiting for a patch which fixes the grub prevention “exploit” at Evolved Jungle Wurm.

as a (half) joke; did this really already happen?

the people arguing about who has top DPS, its totally irrelvant.

Heres the point.
Arbitrarily creating things that break rules of the game IS BAD DESIGN. Especially on a skill like reflect.
The point is to defend and do damage, people need to know that reflect is going to actually reflect things.
Anything that breaks a rule needs a very clear tell that it breaks the rule.

If they want the npcs to have attacks that are long ranged and non reflectable, thats why they have beams.

They continue to do these bandaid bad fixes, and it begins to add up to a crappy ruleset.

Now im not saying you should be able to one shot bosses with reflect, but breaking the skill is lazy and foolish. Improve your monster design, or come up with consistent rules. The game is not helped by these type of solutions not just for reflect but all skills.

You guys are all missing the point. ANet is supporting the reflects. Just a slight nerf so that some projectiles go through. You STILL HAVE TO SLOT REFLECTS. You just also have to devote some people to clear the eggs that make it through.

You complain about it being too easy and just 1111 spam. Well, here you go. More strategy required.

Pibriamal.8719:

You guys are all missing the point. ANet is supporting the reflects. Just a slight nerf so that some projectiles go through. You STILL HAVE TO SLOT REFLECTS. You just also have to devote some people to clear the eggs that make it through.

You complain about it being too easy and just 1111 spam. Well, here you go. More strategy required.

you are missing the point,
it sucky to have things which break the rules inexplicably,
why did my attack fail?
oh attacks dont work here.
why?
uhh because.

they have ranged skills that cannot be reflected, ground based aoes, beams, and conal skills.
They could have made the acid spit into an attack where the ground breaks open and steam/lava/something shoots up. Same effect, but its clearly not a projectile, your training tells you this is an attack where you must move.
Instead you get an attack which looks like a projectile, hits like a projectile, but when you try to use your projectile specific countering skill, it doesnt work. Why? because …. its easier to just change a value to non projectile.

the balance team is very bad with this, they constantly make changes that are unclear, or break rules. many aoes have had their range altered, but not their visual cues, many skills have become unblockable, but they have no tells, now more and more projectiles are not considered projectiles with no tells.

And Bosses basically negate almost all mechanics and strategies used against them.

Pibriamal.8719:

You guys are all missing the point.

No, I don’t think we are.

Its not just reflect that is at the heart of this issue. That issue being that many skills and combat mechanics are being thrown aside in favor of the Megazerg spamfest, DPS system.

The problem with CC is a constant refusal to put diminishing returns on it. Thus you get the situation of the ping pong ball in any player vs player interaction with emphasis on stability to counter it, and stupid limitations like this in PvE. They couldn’t balance it properly in this game mode, so they pretty much just disabled it altogether against these bosses otherwise you’d just chain stun them for 2 hours and watch them die eventually.

I really don’t know what to do myself anymore.

Oh we’re talking about reflects. That too.

The thing to take away from this is that the devs need to make the game mechanics more consistent instead of creating random, arbitrary exceptions to rules. If reflects are going to be a thing, then these bosses need to work around them instead of ignoring them outright. Otherwise they should just remove reflection as a mechanic and replace it with something else.

Lishtenbird.2814:

A zerk warrior has best DPS-survivability-skill ratio in an unorganised group, which is IMO 90% of GW2 gameplay. A good glass-canon might-stacking ele with a lightning hammer will bring more to a group stacked in a corner and will survive with proper dodges, interrupts and aegis from party members; a bad warrior will provide more DPS by smashing buttons and for longer than a bad ele who got downed by a grenade barrage while casting meteor shower (and a good ele who popped swirling winds to reflect grenades as well, by the way).

I’ve seen some pretty poor survivability on bad zerk warriors. Honestly, it was a bandwagon build for speed-runs because it required the least amount of skill and effort. Since then it has been proven time and again that most of the classes can out DPS zerk warrior if played correctly, and also provide more utility.

I do like having one warrior for them banners though. Any more than one warrior is a waste of a spot, that much is true.

I have no idea how more than half the posts in a thread about Reflect mechanics devolved into a warrior discussion, but whatever.

ANet should make this mechanic consistent; reflect should work on any attack that is a projectile, period. No weird exceptions they keep stealth adding every patch, or an enemy that shoots a rock that can be reflected and another that can’t (consistency please), or be affected by stupid artificial limits (like AoEs) some have proposed.

However, it should be balanced of course (Lupi, pre-patch Jungle Wurm, etc.). Why not add an HP bar to reflect skills? Make the wall/dome/whatever scale from a stat (eg. vitality) and have it shatter once its HP is depleted. Similarly, skills like Mirror and Dagger Storm can also have a reflect amount threshold.

Welgaia.7523:

I have no idea how more than half the posts in a thread about Reflect mechanics devolved into a warrior discussion, but whatever.

ANet should make this mechanic consistent; reflect should work on any attack that is a projectile, period. No weird exceptions they keep stealth adding every patch, or an enemy that shoots a rock that can be reflected and another that can’t (consistency please), or be affected by stupid artificial limits (like AoEs) some have proposed.

However, it should be balanced of course (Lupi, pre-patch Jungle Wurm, etc.). Why not add an HP bar to reflect skills? Make the wall/dome/whatever scale from a stat (eg. vitality) and have it shatter once its HP is depleted. Similarly, skills like Mirror and Dagger Storm can also have a reflect amount threshold.

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Did I just promote a non-zerk stat, oh my.

It’s the forums, what did you expect. Can’t be heard unless you’re crying about something.

I like that idea of giving reflects a limit. Adds more depth. However, I can already see the QQ threads about how it’s a nerf to mechanics and blah blah blah cry whine.

If reflects are a problem, just scale down the damage. They did it to deadeye dunwell, so the mechanics are there.

tigirius.9014:

You know what I find interesting as an Engineer?

We’ve been discriminated the most the entire time in this game. It’s a CC/Condition focused class. Everything once could be affected by those two things but they’ve been nerfed to oblivion. No one said a word in our defense from any of the other classes in fact we were denied access to activities because we were told we were not Zerker enough.

So now the shoe is on the other foot while similtaneously they destroy the 1 thing that made turrets a tiny bit useful. The reflect shields. But this time it’s happening to other people not just us, and we’re hearing a great wailing from the deep about it now.

Where were you guys when CC/condi were nerfed hmm? What happened? Now because it’s affecting you it’s important huh?

Wait what? Ok maybe you aren’t playing engi correctly, because even now, an engineer can be a very overpowered class, it just has a high skill cap. To be honest, engineer needs a bit more nerfing in relation to wvw (which unfortunately uses pve skills and therefore would negatively impact many players unfairly). That won’t happen until more people play engineer at a high skill level. But again, much like your post, that is irrelevant, and I was not intending to attack if it seems that way.

The issue is that now many bosses have projectiles that absolutely cannot be reflected, and this hits mesmer the most, but not solely. People brought up Jungle Wurm, but my understanding is that you still can reflect projectiles, but only some of them. (It never should have done the amount of damage it did, and I am one of those that NEVER used feedback when it could 1-hit Wurm) Therefore, it can be inferred that these ‘minor’ dungeon bosses are more powerful than a world boss…

maha.7902:

If reflects are a problem, just scale down the damage. They did it to deadeye dunwell, so the mechanics are there.

Perhaps that was done, but that only points out the problem, Dunwell has an unblockable killshot…