Guild Wars 2

Actually, somebody raised a good point; why does knockdown applied by mobs last longer than knockdown applied by players? And not just a little bit longer, a LOT longer.
Keep it even across the board please ArenaNet.

lunawisp.2378:

Hmm, well, dumbed down is hardly the expression. Personally I don’t find it fun when I’m pulled left by one mob, then before I can get up I’m pulled right by another, then once again before I can get up I knocked back half a dozen yards.

If my knockdown lasted a microsecond like it does on the mobs it wouldn’t be so bad but when I’m knocked down, I stay down for ages.

If this is what passes for fun in GW2 then maybe I’m playing the wrong game.

Dodge the attacks perhaps? I heard stability helps with knockdowns….. just sayin

Polantaris.9513:

Zephaust Zenith.8376:

lunawisp.2378:

There’s a reason most MMO’s don’t give crowd control abilities to minions (or trash mobs). Those mobs nearly always come in groups and giving them all abilities like this makes the game more annoying than fun. This is one area I think they should learn from other MMO’s and tone it down a bit…

I think Anet did learn, with GW1 and still gave mobs abilities and gladly so…

Personally, these abilities spice PvE more and prevent rushing careless through maps or some farming methods – GW1 is a good example of this like souldonkey.9534 pointed out.

If anything, i wouldn’t want PvE to be more dumbed down.. like other MMO’s

Here’s the thing…it’s not dumbing down to make the abilities more fair.
99% of abilities that enemies used in GW1 were abilities you yourself had available to you. There were very rare exceptions and unless the monster in question was a Boss or otherwise supposed to be difficult, they were not game-breaking like this is.
Why do Hammer Risen get a 5 second knockdown on me when mine lasts a second if that? Why can they spam said ability every 10 seconds when mine is about a minute cooldown? Why can I get pulled every 15 seconds when my own pulling ability doesn’t have remotely that low recharge?

This isn’t complaining because we want to rush through the map and have no difficulty, it’s complaining because the enemy abilities are unfair. They have complete advantage when it comes to durations. If you want to complain that the enemies attack too slowly and that’s why…there’s a solution to that. There’s no reason Risen should walk up to you and attack once every 5 seconds. There’s no reason that to make up for that their status effects should last 5x as long as mine do and have 5x less cooldown. Every third attack on a Hammer mob shouldn’t be a knockdown for 5 seconds.

Like I said myself earlier, I had no problem fighting everything that showed up to fight me…until they started breaking the rules and having this kind of unfair advantage.

Sigh another case of L2P… which risen hammer mobs? The brutes? they dont knockdown every 5 seconds and their knockdown is easily identified by their charge up animation, or is it the farmers who always do 2 stuns in a row… either use stability or just easily dodge them.

The QQ of bads is the tastiest of them all….

As bad as it is in Orr, in GW1 it was much worse. You had to kill every single thing you saw, in most zones, because they all had an insatiable blood lust for you, specifically, and were loaded with freezes, cripples and so on that you couldn’t dodge or avoid in any way.

As many things as GW1 did better than 2, and GW2 screwed up by simplifying too much or just outright abandoning, I do not miss GW1 mob aggro. It was insane. Orr has nothing. NOTHING. On GW1 aggro.

Regardless of how much worse GW1 was in this regard, that doesn’t make Orr any more/less enjoyable. There are plenty of places in GW2 with a high mob density, but with a fraction of the CC effects (even the Mad King’s Labyrinth had high mob density and few CCs). Orr is just a pain to move about except for a few paths where mob density is relatively low… I realize the zone’s context in the story, but at the same time where are the thousands of Pact forces then?

That place is simply not fun at all. That’s why I never want to play my level 80. Worst part is the environmental snares that has a wide area but you can do nothing with. I could do mining and harvesting for half a day in the endgame zones of WoW although the nodes may be taken but it is still fun moving around the zone, but in GW2, even the nodes are always there for you, tbh I don’t feel like going. And the cost traveling to Orr is also something that make you stop going there. I’d rather play in somewhere else although it may take much more time to earn the same amount of gold. Looks like Orr is designed for farmers and bots who lack feeling.

Running around in Orr can be annoying as hell and I totally hate the scorpion wire like skills of those undead, but then I think it makes sense in a way. We shouldn´t be able to roam this area with ease. Just kiting through mobs easily from one profitable event to another kinda marginalizes the whole risen army. And it is not nearly as bad as portrayed in most of these threads. If you keep your distance, use your defensive abilites and dodge, you rarely get caught when navigating the area.

Monsters are already very boring and you’re all asking to make them every more stupidly boring by removing everything else than their kitten 1 attack every 2 seconds.

If you’re just running around trying to get orichalcum, then too bad.
Maybe it’s time you start to use your dodge button for actually dodging attack instead of just trying to run faster. You can also look around and avoid running directly into monsters.

Or just kill them.

PLEASE RECONSIDER BRINGING STABILITY OR CONDITION REMOVAL AS THESE THINGS ARE CLEARLY NOT WORTH IT.
ALLCAPSWIN.

Ive not been to orr much, but the few times Ive been there, I feel like the ball in a flipper game. Its horrible :P

Polantaris.9513:

Zephaust Zenith.8376:

lunawisp.2378:

There’s a reason most MMO’s don’t give crowd control abilities to minions (or trash mobs). Those mobs nearly always come in groups and giving them all abilities like this makes the game more annoying than fun. This is one area I think they should learn from other MMO’s and tone it down a bit…

I think Anet did learn, with GW1 and still gave mobs abilities and gladly so…

Personally, these abilities spice PvE more and prevent rushing careless through maps or some farming methods – GW1 is a good example of this like souldonkey.9534 pointed out.

If anything, i wouldn’t want PvE to be more dumbed down.. like other MMO’s

Why do Hammer Risen get a 5 second knockdown on me when mine lasts a second if that? Why can they spam said ability every 10 seconds when mine is about a minute cooldown? Why can I get pulled every 15 seconds when my own pulling ability doesn’t have remotely that low recharge?

Probably for the same reason that Trahearne couldn’t kill a skrit with that oversized butterknife he keeps strapped to his back, but can pull a half dozen flesh golems out of his jolly green butt when the plot calls for it.

The answer is: Anet doesn’t know how to create a sense of consistency.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Regardless of how much worse GW1 was in this regard, that doesn’t make Orr any more/less enjoyable. There are plenty of places in GW2 with a high mob density, but with a fraction of the CC effects (even the Mad King’s Labyrinth had high mob density and few CCs). Orr is just a pain to move about except for a few paths where mob density is relatively low… I realize the zone’s context in the story, but at the same time where are the thousands of Pact forces then?

This is the same reason I skipped “kill the foes coming out of the door!” events that had all skeles, and hate any area populated by ogres. In either of those situations, fighting more than one at a time means I’m going to be on my butt for at least half the fight.

One time, I made the mistake of charging into a door of skeles. I spent the next half minute trying to escape the chain of knockdowns. I say a half minute, because after about 30 seconds, I finally died, since I couldn’t stay on my feet long enough to get out of aggro range.

It isn’t the knocks, pulls, stuns, cripples, etc. It’s that about 70% of the Orr mobs have one or more of them, they can occasionally use them more than once in a fight. Dodging such is all well and good, but most characters only get 2 dodges before their end bar is too low for a third. CC removal is good, but the mobs can re-apply these a lot faster than you can take them off. I’ve had the Risen Farmer, who has a stun and a knock, use them consecutively. I dodged both. It then proceeded to wind up for a second stun. I moved away (I had no dodge left) and was thirty feet from him when the attack hit anyway (which I believe is a latency issue between the client and server).

The kitten of it is that in most fights, these abilities in no way allow them to win. Yes, if you fight twelve of them and they chain CC you, you can die, but that is hardly the norm.

Sounds like a really petty complaint to me. Mobs have more control skills so folks want to complain. Heaven forbid that the enemy in the war against the undead “inconveniences” some of you.

Lets go ahead and listen to all the whiners Anet. Make all the enemies we are at war with lay down and let us pass.

Aurust.8961:

lunawisp.2378:

Hmm, well, dumbed down is hardly the expression. Personally I don’t find it fun when I’m pulled left by one mob, then before I can get up I’m pulled right by another, then once again before I can get up I knocked back half a dozen yards.

If my knockdown lasted a microsecond like it does on the mobs it wouldn’t be so bad but when I’m knocked down, I stay down for ages.

If this is what passes for fun in GW2 then maybe I’m playing the wrong game.

Dodge the attacks perhaps? I heard stability helps with knockdowns….. just sayin

how often can you pop stability? how often can you dodge?

and more importantly, how often can you use your psychic powers to know that this group will attack you with CC, or even attack at all?

Its not tough though, its just annoying. Thankfully I usually go tere on my theif so can stealth past large groups to avoid pingpong on my way past (which never, ever kills me on my ranger, just means it takes a bit longer to get places and means I’m pretty angry by the time I do get to them).

I don’t even mind the kds, cripples, lifesteal etc, its just the kittening pulls.

If the world is not a danagerous place then it’s just an amusement park. Risk versus reward folks. Risk versus reward. Anything that’s not difficult to do is generally not worth doing.

Since difficulty is being discussed; I’d like to see what else could be implemented to make it actually difficult.

-One shot kill red circles on the ground to move away from?
-One shot kill telegraphed attacks that must be dodged?

Experience matters. I’ve learned to dodge the pulls and the stuns, how to kite and when to pop stability. This game rewards skill. Best you find some

If they did one of two things people might actually enjoy Orr;

1) redo the respawn rate for the mobs,

OR

2) thin the mob density

Either of these things would have Orr not want to make your murder baby seals

Shifted.3697:

If they did one of two things people might actually enjoy Orr;

1) redo the respawn rate for the mobs, or

2) thin the mob density

Either of these things would have Orr not want to make your murder baby seals

Sounds like you’re making it convenient to bypass NPC’s.

I’d prefer NPC’s patroling the area instead of standing still. If we were to thin out thier numbers and make them respawn slower; we should make them more dangerous and have a larger aggro radius.

Calae.1738:

Shifted.3697:

If they did one of two things people might actually enjoy Orr;

1) redo the respawn rate for the mobs, or

2) thin the mob density

Either of these things would have Orr not want to make your murder baby seals

Sounds like you’re making it convenient to bypass NPC’s.

I’d prefer NPC’s patroling the area instead of standing still. If we were to thin out thier numbers and make them respawn slower; we should make them more dangerous and have a larger aggro radius.

I don’t want both, just one or the other. Their aggro radius is already massive, and I’m fine with that. I just want them to respawn slower after I kill 9 of them in a 50m radius OR keep the rates the same, but let me be able to sneak by a few every now and then.

sorry if my initial post was confusing, fixed it

the game physics in Orr are not like anywhere else. This makes Orr a very annoying place and detiers people from Orr = No pressence in Orr from other players.

All Risen in Orr have skills that, Pull, slow, cripple, etc, etc. you that make it almost impossible to navigate from point A to Point B.

1)If you move a lot around your target(thieves) you will get some lag, on your player handicaping your movements when fighting Risen. You know what I mean, when strafing your character does not straff do to a quick second of lag. Your character seems likes its rooted in place for a few seconds with no condition on you yet.

2)Your skills that prevent knockdown, etc. last a lot less in Orr when fighting Risen. I don’t care how well people think their Stunbreaker or Condition remover skills are. They seem to dramaticly reduce when conflicting with Risen. What might had lasted for 5 secs on any other mob, but when used on Risen, that 5 secs seems to reduce to like 1 sec instead.

3)Your heals can not keep up with the damage output from 3 or more Risen.

4)Your slow skills seem to change when cast on a Risen. From 3 seconds of slow on another target to like lasting 1 sec on Risen.

5)Risen absorb an awful lot of damage for not having armor and being dead.

6)Risen damage output is sick, but if you take that same shovel that crits you for 978 damage per swing, and use that same shovel on a Risen, you will be lucky to hit them with over 100 white damage.

7)my hammer knocks back or downs a mob, and the mob will be immoblized for a few secs before they get back up. You use the same hammer on a Risen and they most of the time get right back up in an instant and are not knocked back. You get hit with a Risen hammer and you are down for a good amount of secs before you can get back up to be knocked down again.

8)Is it me or does that pic or anchor the Risen puriffier use that pulls you back to him as an insane range?

9)How are red circles appearing under my feet constantly when I see NO seige equipment around me at all when in Orr? How come the Risen seige equipment can shoot through walls and around corners, and not your seige equipment?

10)Why do my heal skills get reduced automaticly when in Orr?

Bottom Line Orr is more of an annoyance then hard. The Risen that thrive there need to get NERFED some. There is no reason what so ever that my skills that I worked on to help me survive in ANY conflict get drasticly reduced when in Orr.

Riser farmer : Knockdown, knockdown, knockdown, knockdown. He’s more powerful with a spade than every other monster in existence xD

I thought I was fighting zombies.
Zombies are supposed to be dumb and slow.
Why the hell are these zombies fast?
!@#$ fast zombies.

BRB, registering www.!@#$fastzombies.com.

Samfisher.7942:

Riser farmer : Knockdown, knockdown, knockdown, knockdown. He’s more powerful with a spade than every other monster in existence xD

I’ve faced an Elder Dragon and countless Champion servants. I’ve conquered and mapped all of Tyria, and emerged from the deepest dungeons known to the five races relatively unscathed. I’ve acquired one of the legendary weapons blessed by the gods.

I have yet to surpass a dead guy with a straw hat and a spade.

Plague.5329:

As bad as it is in Orr, in GW1 it was much worse. You had to kill every single thing you saw, in most zones, because they all had an insatiable blood lust for you, specifically, and were loaded with freezes, cripples and so on that you couldn’t dodge or avoid in any way.

As many things as GW1 did better than 2, and GW2 screwed up by simplifying too much or just outright abandoning, I do not miss GW1 mob aggro. It was insane. Orr has nothing. NOTHING. On GW1 aggro.

That said once you killed something it stayed dead too, so you had the option of moving through an area killing stuff (and you didnt need to be alone in doing it with henchman and the NPCs, if you couldnt find other players). In GW2 the respawns are often that fast that you need to run through an area to get anywhere.

@drifter
point 9); from what i can tell most are poison clouds
point 10); poison reduces heals by 33%, most risen do poison (maybe all of then do it, I cant be certain).

I seriously think A-net needs to buff the mobs, I run around with crappy rare MF gear with the god awful stats and can stand there and take a 4 man beating like a champ while mining and just walk it off np.

I couldn’t agree more. There is nothing difficult or challenging about Orr, it is just the ridiculous amount of cc you have to deal with makes it annoying and frustrating as hell. Combat in any game should be fast, active and fluid and leave the player feeling like he/she is in control and on top of things. Getting knocked flat on my rear and being stuck there for a few seconds only to be re-knocked down the instant I get up doesn’t meet the definition of “active combat” by any stretch of the imagination. It is more like that scene in the Deerhunter movie where the two guys are being slapped around while being forced to play Russian roulette — mao! mao! —being completely at the mercy of the enemy and unable to fight back.

Nothing sucks worth than being tossed around, knocked down, reeled in, slowed and stunned and being unable to do much about it.

Even the Halloween brawl event was ruined with the excessive knockdowns. You go into the brawl, get off one ability and then you are knocked on your butt. Get up and immediately get knocked down again. Didn’t take long to get fed up with that crap.

The same thing happens in zones other than Orr, too. Just to use some of your abilities you often have to use a stability ability first or you will be interrupted or cc’ed before the ability completes. This really sucks, especially when you have only 10 slots and would prefer to reserve them for something that does something other than just temporarily cancel out the crappy combat mechanics of this game.

To make a long story short: getting cc’ed sucks. People complain about it in every game I’ve been in, but it usually only happens in PVP where it is a necessary evil. It has no place in open world PVE, especially for trash mobs.

Count me in the group that thinks it’s not hard. Just annoying and tedious. Seems like they went out of their way to give them all the annoying abilities they could.

I think it’s been a week since I’ve been to Orr at all, and then it was to help friend.
I just don’t go there any more. It’s not fun. Broken events, tedious combat, obvious money sinks.
I’ll just play in other areas that even though they’re not as rewarding per event, are more enjoyable and allow you to complete more of those events quicker, resulting in a higher reward.

And I find the whole idea of randomise ore nodes insulting and a throwback to other, more traditional MMOs, those games GW2 prides itself on being different to.
I’ll just let some OCD mook with a gold obsession do all the tedious work and buy their spoils from the TP.
Let the peasants do the manual labour while I busy myself with the important task of having fun.

Mungrul.9358:

I think it’s been a week since I’ve been to Orr at all, and then it was to help friend.
I just don’t go there any more. It’s not fun. Broken events, tedious combat, obvious money sinks.
I’ll just play in other areas that even though they’re not as rewarding per event, are more enjoyable and allow you to complete more of those events quicker, resulting in a higher reward.

And I find the whole idea of randomise ore nodes insulting and a throwback to other, more traditional MMOs, those games GW2 prides itself on being different to.
I’ll just let some OCD mook with a gold obsession do all the tedious work and buy their spoils from the TP.
Let the peasants do the manual labour while I busy myself with the important task of having fun.

Uh…the nodes aren’t random.. They spawn in set locations each server reset and the nodes stay there until the next reset.

I’m happy you know that. That means you’re one of the people who gets me my orichalcum and ancient wood

I find that i much prefer the Champions Online take on mob CC than GW2s.

In Champions you have a block button, that while held down stops you from attacking but drive your defenses way up and rebuild your energy reserve that powers most abilities. Tapping said button while under a CC also break that CC and make you immune for some time.

What Anet could do was to give a similar effect to the current dodge. Tap the dodge after the CC have hit and you break CC and are immune for a while, but spend endurance as if you did a dodge.

This because at least with mobs i find that what usually gets me is a respawned mob out of view while i am fighting some other in my path. And those are impossible to dodge, no matter how long their tells are.

Never mind that big bad mobs have one up on us in the CC department, in that they have innate CC shield that has to be worn down before you can yank them off their feet.

The most annoying effect by far is not just knockdown but chain-pulling which gets worse underwater because your character is now a ping pong ball for the server. Might as well go afk because you won’t survive anyway.

maybe this was mentioned before, but also, about the underwater Risen – cheapest of the cheap. When I am downed underwater, I get a chance to swim to the surface. as I get to water level, I am still constantly constrained by Krait nets and purple shackles (chains?). once i surface, the fun doesn’t stop, because the Risen and Krait keep pulling me underwater, while my skills are disabled, because i am neither completely underwater or on land, so both skill sets are disabled when stranded. cannot give up and WP away for a fee, because i am “still in combat”.

Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater
Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater
Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater
Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater
Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater
Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater
Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater
Swim to the Surface!
pulled back underwater

Dead.

Mungrul.9358:

I’m happy you know that. That means you’re one of the people who gets me my orichalcum and ancient wood

I haven’t actually bothered with farming in 2-3 weeks lol xD

Honestly, Orr is okay usually. Even as solo.

Dodge ability in this game is so OP in PVE that it makes it too easy usually. With ranged skills you can even solo almost half of the group bosses in this game too (though time consuming). All thanks to dodge.

When it comes to Orr, just learn the patterns of different creeps and you can pretty much run through them without worries. Learn to dodge only those attacks which does something annoying. (Cripple, Pull, Knockdown)
Also many of those are warned clearly before hand anyway, or it’s their starting move and thanks to those, really predictable. So it reduces a lot wasted endurance for next maneuvers.
It’s all about timing and mobility.

I have soloed all Orr areas 100% with Rifle/Gsword warrior and slightly squishy dual bow ranger, it isn’t even hard to be honest. Only 2 skill points were quite hard/annoying with DB ranger, with warrior even more easier.
Though I don’t really like Malchor’s Leap at all, since the map itself is quite horrible.

If I wanted to complain something there it’s those weird thorn roots/vines which pops up out of the ground and follows you around while crippling. Or stunning/confusing/blinding lightning circles which gives me feeling of being middle of artillery bombardment.
Spawn times are horrible, usually after killing 3-5 mobs they start to spawn back so it becomes endless cycle if you don’t constantly move forward while killing. Which is bit issue due density. (Mob density isn’t bad itself, imo).
Also some waypoints should be less often contested to be honest.

But creeps itself are mostly fine as they are, just multiple other things there are annoying.

Though this is only my personal opinion.

I agree that Orr is annoying rather than broken, and it should be annoying at the very least because it is the fount of the Risen army. I was able to run around solo on my ranger and get skill points without assistance. It wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t impossible, and that sounds like heroic fantasy to me.