Guild Wars 2

OK, so right now there’s pretty much no contest for PBAoE damage to survivability ratio between warriors and the rest of the game. This is what’s leading to “LF1M warrior for CoF Speed run” and the hordes of warriors etc. in the rest of the game.

So, pick an option and explain your reasoning!

a) Warriors stay as they are, other classes are buffed, equal playing field and everyone’s happy. ANet have to tweak balance of content to match this horde of ’zerkers.

b) Warriors get nerfed, other classes are sought for instance speed runs, large numbers of Warriors complain vociferously and the rest of the game laps up their tears.

c) Nothing changes, cos if ANet think Necro/Engi/Ranger are fine, they’re also blind to Warrior/Mesmer CoF speed run balance etc. and have no idea how their own players are playing the game.

I’m gonna go with a). Not sure though… Keep this thread civil, avoid debating other people’s choices and if you need to add an option, do so.

d) i dont care how faster can someone kill mobs, iam still a god at it and can do it with anyclass anytime and in a good pace…what i care are invisible enemies and perma stealth but apparently cannot be fixed, cant be helped.

BUT if you really want to me choose one? i guess a) because the warrior users will get mad if they get nerfed…but if others get a boost they cant complaint right?

Probably C.
/15chars

i’d love to say a), but probably c).
Everyone has an alt warrior by now, they are a breeze to level so no big deal, i’d just wish that the OP class of choice wasnt the most boring one to play.

There will never be balance in PvE. One class will always be anointed as the “chosen” class for groups, and the instant you nerf that one, another will rise in its place, and the cycle will begin anew.

Tilting at Windmills. HiYo, Rosinante.

Warriors are fine. I can see them and avoid their damage. They aren’t the class that needs a nerf.

Since Anet prefers balancing around PvP than PvE, and since warriors are lagging behind other classes in PvP, I’m gonna say all your choices are wrong. Anet will buff warriors.

Nice try at staging only anti-warrior answers though, we all love loaded questions, especially when all of the given choices are wrong.

D. Warriors get nerfs that make them unable to use ranged weapons effectively or be able to clear enough conditions off themselves to be enjoyable and effective in the open world, essentially limiting people to cookie-cutter builds that are enjoyable only in dungeons and PvP.

Warriors are already lacking in W3 so to further nerf them for the PvE crowd will be a big problem.

Thieves tear up warriors in WvWvW.

havoc.6814:

Since Anet prefers balancing around PvP than PvE, and since warriors are lagging behind other classes in PvP, I’m gonna say all your choices are wrong. Anet will buff warriors.

Nice try at staging only anti-warrior answers though, we all love loaded questions, especially when all of the given choices are wrong.

In pve warriors are beyond over the top.

I once was out on my warrior wondering why the mobs I was slaughtering in 4’s and 5’s were hitting so freaking hard… I realized I was facing mobs 25% higher in level than me.

On ANY other profession this would be suicide, on a warrior it’s “farming”.

Anyone who plays D/D ele can pick up a warrior and be more tanky and do more burst than their D/D ele. I predict after ANet nerfs d/d eles, that they will all go to warrior and make the normal warrior community look like a parking lot full of tool sheds.

THAT is when warriors will be nerfed.

Warriors are probably the most balanced class in the game, and they should remain pretty much untouched and all classes should be balanced around it (buffs or nerfs whatever is needed to match them to warrior level). That’s how I’d do it if I were Anet.

Warriors are weak on party support, but are a single target monster with only melee AoE.
Seems balanced to me.

Jaxon.5392:

Warriors are probably the most balanced class in the game, and they should remain pretty much untouched and all classes should be balanced around it (buffs or nerfs whatever is needed to match them to warrior level). That’s how I’d do it if I were Anet.

Warriors are weak on party support, but are a single target monster with only melee AoE.
Seems balanced to me.

Well, the longbow has like… two and a bit AoE’s. So warrior ranged AoE is sort of like engineer melee, which I think comes down to hitting something repeatedly with a spanner.

I would prefer they keep warriors the same, and change dungeon fights to actually require utility rather than pure DPS. Given that this would require a 100% overhaul of dungeons (for the better – no more trash mob skipping, more more damage sponge bosses) and I highly doubt anet can be bothered to do this, we can expect just a damage nerf. At that point I’ll stop doing pve altogether because anet are convinced that their idea of walking up to a boss and hitting 1 for 10 minutes where utility is useless and every class is the same but just does damage in a different way, is “fun”.

LameFox.6349:

Jaxon.5392:

Warriors are probably the most balanced class in the game, and they should remain pretty much untouched and all classes should be balanced around it (buffs or nerfs whatever is needed to match them to warrior level). That’s how I’d do it if I were Anet.

Warriors are weak on party support, but are a single target monster with only melee AoE.
Seems balanced to me.

Well, the longbow has like… two and a bit AoE’s. So warrior ranged AoE is sort of like engineer melee, which I think comes down to hitting something repeatedly with a spanner.

Or blowing them up with massive amounts of gunpowder. Kinda nice that confusion do not require that your opponent actually hit anything, so layered applications of smoke and concussion are working combination.

I’ll go whit C
balance in game is close to non existent

and warriors will get buffed soon :P

I still don’t see what so awesome about warriors. If they’re in my fractal groups ok, if not, ok too. Never seen a correlation with successful frac runs and having warriors.

Spvp: Warriors are one of the bottom.
WvW: For zerg vs zerg and as a crowd control/dps they are pretty good. For roaming, others are better.
Pve: They are the king of the freaking dungeons. Fraking number 1 top.

It must be pretty hard to balancethe warrior for pve without screwing the pvp…

Warriors are fairly balanced and even a little on the underpowered side in PVP.

They are however overpowered in PVE, due to mightstacking GS, the rest of their weapons are fine.

Nerf the damage of 100b and make it mobile and 360 degrees, remove the GS might stacking or give it an internal cooldown, and give warriors more condition removal, access to protection, and give warrior GS boon shattering effects.

That might be a more balanced way of doing it.

Writetyper.1985:

I would prefer they keep warriors the same, and change dungeon fights to actually require utility rather than pure DPS. Given that this would require a 100% overhaul of dungeons (for the better – no more trash mob skipping, more more damage sponge bosses) and I highly doubt anet can be bothered to do this, we can expect just a damage nerf. At that point I’ll stop doing pve altogether because anet are convinced that their idea of walking up to a boss and hitting 1 for 10 minutes where utility is useless and every class is the same but just does damage in a different way, is “fun”.

It is a side effect of their trinity breaking.

First of they wanted every profession to be able to fit in, rather than have each profession be a set trinity role.

Secondly tho they tried to avoid bunkers in SPVP, and so made static defenses and heals less than effective on a individual basis (but pack 5 shout warriors in a tight formation and suddenly you are constantly being healed for 15000-30000).

Third they made controls less about control and more about denying your SPVP opponent the use of that critical skill via interrupt timing.

End result is that anything other than DPS on a individual basis is a waste of effort. Notice that the shout warrior heals as a side effect of his boon providing shouts, not as a primary build focus. His primary task will still be DPS with the shouts primarily there to boost that, not keep him alive. The crazy numbers above only show up when you have 5 shout warriors overlapping their shout areas and using 3 shouts each.

You see something similar with guardians, where applying boons (something that happens with nearly every weapon swing rather than a focused effort) also heals.

Point is that warrior, and to a degree guardians (and perhaps engineers, tho i am unsure how recent patches has affected the DPS on explosives kits) can be built to incidentally heal as part of their DPS activity.

You do not find this as much with elementalists. Water is the lowest DPS element, and swapping between them is a non-zero cost activity even when fully traited for it. Never mind that juggling 4×5 skill recharges, 3/4 being out of view at any one time, is a while different ballgame from 5 weapon skills plus 3 shouts that are always in view.

Thieves have to forgo attacking to heal (heal while stealthed).

Mesmers could be using their illusions to avoid damage, if the mobs reliably targeted them. And the same goes for Rangers and pets. But even so the damage dealt out, and the pets/illusions inability to avoid said damage, means that they will quickly vanish.

Necromancer is a mess all their own. They have the pet issues of rangers, their vampiric traits (in theory mixing DPS with self-heal) are outperformed by sigils and consumables (meaning warriors and guardians can benefit just as much), and death shrouds only reliably attack has less DPS than all but one of their weapon sets (never mind that said poor DPS gets even worse if the necromancer allow their life force to drop below 50%, and that both time spend in the shroud and damage taken while in it reduce life force).

So all in all, the trinity breaking has made the warrior the king of self-sufficient DPS.

xiv.7136:

Warriors are fairly balanced and even a little on the underpowered side in PVP.

They are however overpowered in PVE, due to mightstacking GS, the rest of their weapons are fine.

Nerf the damage of 100b and make it mobile and 360 degrees, remove the GS might stacking or give it an internal cooldown, and give warriors more condition removal, access to protection, and give GS 100b a boon removal effect.

That might be a more balanced way of doing it.

Excellent suggestions, except 100 blades shouldn’t remove the boons or be mobile. It is already overpowered as it is. It should keep the player rooted, just like the sword burst skill (flurry) does. Great sword’s burst ability is at the moment underpowered and few players use it (while everything else about the weapon is pretty overpowered due the might stacking trait etc). E.g. keep the greatsword burst F1 damage as it, but that it removes one boon from enemy. Now there would be a reason to use the burst.

I also agree that warrior is perhaps the most balanced profession in the game, together with guardian. So I wouldn’t suggest drastic changes to either. Just minor tweaks, like small reduction to the current cooldown, to make some of the least used utility skills and weapons a bit more attractive.

Warriors are really good in pve, basically the easy mode in many areas like Orr, but in pvp and WvWvW, I feel that they are among the weakest professions. I think Arenanet is aware of this.

Deniara / Ayna

Removing one boon is rather weak for a F1 skill that is considered the worst ability in the game, unless some other changes are made, for example turning immunities, mistform, stealth etc into boons that could be shattered, then the skill would have an important tactical place in the meta.

I’d prefer the a). Wars are pretty effective in PvE and I want other classes to be, too.
But speaking of which, why is 100b which deals 10-20k dmg a #2 skill with 6.5/8 sec cooldown in the first place? Why is the GS burst skill a kitten 1-h small dmg with fury boon? I don’t understand this.

Writetyper.1985:

I would prefer they keep warriors the same, and change dungeon fights to actually require utility rather than pure DPS. Given that this would require a 100% overhaul of dungeons (for the better – no more trash mob skipping, more more damage sponge bosses) and I highly doubt anet can be bothered to do this, we can expect just a damage nerf. At that point I’ll stop doing pve altogether because anet are convinced that their idea of walking up to a boss and hitting 1 for 10 minutes where utility is useless and every class is the same but just does damage in a different way, is “fun”.

Well that’s pretty much the opposite of what I experience in dungeons… I can never go DPS on my warrior because chances are that will be all anybody is doing on all classes (except guardian, who doesn’t have any) and then we all die. So I just try to be very hard to kill instead, and spend a lot of time doing mass condition removal/conversion, some buffs/debuffs with small heals, and picking up fragile allies. Especially those that happen to be a thief, because lying on the floor seems to be their role in a dungeon. Some kind of diversionary tactic perhaps…

PCanineBrigade.4916:

I’d prefer the a). Wars are pretty effective in PvE and I want other classes to be, too.
But speaking of which, why is 100b which deals 10-20k dmg a #2 skill with 6.5/8 sec cooldown in the first place? Why is the GS burst skill a kitten 1-h small dmg with fury boon? I don’t understand this.

100 blades is a crutch warriors have needed all this while in tPVP to overcome their fragility, lack of condition removal and proper condition spec, lack of escapes and lack of utility.

I think many PVP warriors would enjoy the tradeoff of damage with GS for access to boon and condi removal, time warp and regen/prot, amongst others. The PVE warriors would lose the easymode damage though.

High base armor and health really mean nothing when looking at evades, stealth, time warp/portal, proper condition specs, and proper sustain from protection and regeneration.

xiv.7136:

Removing one boon is rather weak for a F1 skill that is considered the worst ability in the game, unless some other changes are made, for example turning immunities, mistform, stealth etc into boons that could be shattered, then the skill would have an important tactical place in the meta.

I really would want to see more variety in the game. And currently huge majority of Warriors are using greatsword almost all the time. Same for mesmers and greatsword is also the weapon of choice of many guardians and rangers. If we keep buffing the greatsword even tiny bit more, we might as well rename the entire game into Greatsword Wars 2 as other weapons become more and more irrelevant.

100 Blades has an incredibly short cooldown for a skill, which does so massive burst damage, just 8 seconds cooldown. E.g. hammer skill #2, fierce blow, does significantly less damage and has 12 seconds cooldown.

You can use a burst skill every 15 seconds as it is easy to get full adrenaline. Being able to remove one boon every 15 seconds, while doing nice damage is a powerful game mechanism. Tell which other profession can strips boons from enemies so easily without allocating any skill slot nor trait for that?

Deniara / Ayna

SupahSpankeh.8452:

OK, so right now there’s pretty much no contest for PBAoE damage to survivability ratio between warriors and the rest of the game. This is what’s leading to “LF1M warrior for CoF Speed run” and the hordes of warriors etc. in the rest of the game.

So, pick an option and explain your reasoning!

a) Warriors stay as they are, other classes are buffed, equal playing field and everyone’s happy. ANet have to tweak balance of content to match this horde of ’zerkers.

b) Warriors get nerfed, other classes are sought for instance speed runs, large numbers of Warriors complain vociferously and the rest of the game laps up their tears.

c) Nothing changes, cos if ANet think Necro/Engi/Ranger are fine, they’re also blind to Warrior/Mesmer CoF speed run balance etc. and have no idea how their own players are playing the game.

I’m gonna go with a). Not sure though… Keep this thread civil, avoid debating other people’s choices and if you need to add an option, do so.

Warriors need to excel in what they are doing best.A good warr can ruin your day,i think it counts for all classes though.Totally disagree with this thread,you want warriors nerfed because people keep asking for them for dung runs , while its not needed and they can do just as fine with any other class,but its their own ignorance from thinking so and they want to odo it these 2.5 minutes faster then with lets say a guardian ? ….They do not need to be nerfed,at all,they could use some buffing,Nostradamus..

xiv.7136:

Warriors are fairly balanced and even a little on the underpowered side in PVP.

They are however overpowered in PVE, due to mightstacking GS, the rest of their weapons are fine.

Nerf the damage of 100b and make it mobile and 360 degrees, remove the GS might stacking or give it an internal cooldown, and give warriors more condition removal, access to protection, and give warrior GS boon shattering effects.

That might be a more balanced way of doing it.

That would be what… 4 spin-around-with-weapon skills? 5 if you go underwater. I guess at least the animation already exists from the skill right next to it…

edit: oh wait, it’s one along on the bar from it, my key for it is where they’re next to each other.

Well, something simple like increasing 100blades cooldown to 15s could do it. The skill in PvP is hard to land on it’s own and dangerous to spam so it’s already carefully placed when the time is right (target got a root or stun)

Or maybe just go the lazy route and say that all (or most) warrior GS skills do 20% less damage in PvE than in PvP but it will work weirdly in WvW.

stof.9341:

Well, something simple like increasing 100blades cooldown to 15s could do it. The skill in PvP is hard to land on it’s own and dangerous to spam so it’s already carefully placed when the time is right (target got a root or stun)

Or maybe just go the lazy route and say that all (or most) warrior GS skills do 20% less damage in PvE than in PvP but it will work weirdly in WvW.

Hb does not need a longer cd At all,people forget,that warriors Root themselves with that skill,learn the skills of your opponnent to Counter them,its not that kitten hard.You have to press evade one time,and hb is Wasted.This entire thread is pointless imo,just another player with no clue,getting kicked around by warriors because he lacks the understanding of his own clas to counter a warrior.

Lol, i wonder how Anet deals with stupid threads like this day in and out. Mad Respect to Anet and her crew here.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Tell which other profession can strips boons from enemies so easily without allocating any skill slot nor trait for that?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Focus#Necromancer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers

havoc.6814:

Since Anet prefers balancing around PvP than PvE, and since warriors are lagging behind other classes in PvP, I’m gonna say all your choices are wrong. Anet will buff warriors.

Nice try at staging only anti-warrior answers though, we all love loaded questions, especially when all of the given choices are wrong.

Pretty much this.

If you buff everyone to the state of warriors, then PVP will consist of 3 second battles.

Exactly 2 skills are the focus of the complaints against warriors. Outside of those 2 skills warriors are perfectly average and don’t do anything better in the game than other classes.

So yeah, nerf 100b into the ground and do the same with kill shot. But in return hammer, mace, war horn, shield, and sword all need various buffs.

do u really think game is unbalanced because of one dungeon pats? this is nonsense.

btw what would you do with warriors in pvp if they get nerfed in cof1?

Caedmon.6798:

Hb does not need a longer cd At all,people forget,that warriors Root themselves with that skill,learn the skills of your opponnent to Counter them,its not that kitten hard.You have to press evade one time,and hb is Wasted.This entire thread is pointless imo,just another player with no clue,getting kicked around by warriors because he lacks the understanding of his own clas to counter a warrior.

Well, too bad monsters barely never dodge so 100blades IS op against them. Which was the point in the first place.

stof.9341:

Caedmon.6798:

Hb does not need a longer cd At all,people forget,that warriors Root themselves with that skill,learn the skills of your opponnent to Counter them,its not that kitten hard.You have to press evade one time,and hb is Wasted.This entire thread is pointless imo,just another player with no clue,getting kicked around by warriors because he lacks the understanding of his own clas to counter a warrior.

Well, too bad monsters barely never dodge so 100blades IS op against them. Which was the point in the first place.

They will not nerf HB because mobs cant dodge it….Come on now,are you being serious ??

That’s a fair point really, the complaint against HB is a PVE one, and frankly who cares about PVE.

You can do COF with 5 blue geared backstab thieves so it doesn’t matter.

I like the way people play warriors Squishy as kitten. Also, a lot of the skills of warrior only kinda shine in pve because they require you to stand still. Rather not practical in pvp if you’re not a tree.

Warriors seem fine in PvP, they should leave PvP unchanged. In PvE warriors need some major nerfs. No class should have the best armor, the best HP and the best damage, it leaves no reason to ever bring another class. The whole point of having light armor classes is that their vulnerability means they get higher damage, if they get rid of that then they are just a liability.

Of course that isn’t what will happen. Anet only cares about PvP balance even though that is only a small part of the game. They will just keep buffing warrior until 99% of PvE players are forced to play warrior alts. I already gave in and made one, the OPness is hilarious, you can just steamroll everything, you don’t even have to think about it.

Sure warrior is boring as kitten, but when you can kill things 3 times as fast, take on twice as many mob’s as other classes, don’t ever need to worry about dying and get more credit for AOE events then any other class, then for making money that just leaves playing a boring warrior.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Warriors seem fine in PvP, they should leave PvP unchanged. In PvE warriors need some major nerfs. No class should have the best armor, the best HP and the best damage, it leaves no reason to ever bring another class. The whole point of having light armor classes is that their vulnerability means they get higher damage, if they get rid of that then they are just a liability.

Of course that isn’t what will happen. Anet only cares about PvP balance even though that is only a small part of the game. They will just keep buffing warrior until 99% of PvE players are forced to play warrior alts. I already gave in and made one, the OPness is hilarious, you can just steamroll everything, you don’t even have to think about it.

Sure warrior is boring as kitten, but when you can kill things 3 times as fast, take on twice as many mob’s as other classes, don’t ever need to worry about dying and get more credit for AOE events then any other class, then for making money that just leaves playing a boring warrior.

AOE events? I wasn’t aware such things existed in GW2. You certainly provide compelling arguments for anet to nerf warriors though.

Give the AI mobs in PvE some AI. If the mobs were to dodge once in a while (or even kite) it wouldn’t bother me in the least as a condi/vamp necro, but it will sure take the fun out of using 100b in a hurry. If we as players can dodge 2 times even as a lowby 2nd level why can’t most (any) mobs?

If you want to know why GS warriors are generally not used in PvP it is due to the fact that your opponent there has a brain and can and will get out of your way when he/she sees 100b coming.

Edit: my prediction though is c.. no change coming

Tommyknocker.6089:

If you want to know why GS warriors are generally not used in PvP it is due to the fact that your opponent there has a brain and can and will get out of your way when he/she sees 100b coming.

And the mesmer is the inverse. In SPVP they are king because their clones mess with the very human aspect of the opposition, while in PVE they are thin skinned bombers.

lol, I’ve actually had AI just coincidentally walk out of HB before. So funny/sad, though usually not an issue unless you’re with other people and it decided to hate someone who can’t tank. Then you’d have to waste a utility on something to immobilize it with… which, for PVE, I can’t say I’ve ever found useful unless I was the one moving away.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Warriors seem fine in PvP, they should leave PvP unchanged. In PvE warriors need some major nerfs. No class should have the best armor, the best HP and the best damage, it leaves no reason to ever bring another class. The whole point of having light armor classes is that their vulnerability means they get higher damage, if they get rid of that then they are just a liability.

Of course that isn’t what will happen. Anet only cares about PvP balance even though that is only a small part of the game. They will just keep buffing warrior until 99% of PvE players are forced to play warrior alts. I already gave in and made one, the OPness is hilarious, you can just steamroll everything, you don’t even have to think about it.

Sure warrior is boring as kitten, but when you can kill things 3 times as fast, take on twice as many mob’s as other classes, don’t ever need to worry about dying and get more credit for AOE events then any other class, then for making money that just leaves playing a boring warrior.

I don’t think they would try to remove the tank/healer/dps thing on purpose and then be like ‘Good gods, people can do a dungeon using only one class!’ somehow.

Columba.9730:

Warriors are fine. I can see them and avoid their damage. They aren’t the class that needs a nerf.

The problem thats for PvP, but in PvE they are abysmally overpowered.

I would add another option, give bosses an anti warrior mechanic, like they take 50% reduced damage from warriors, that would still make warriors do more damage than the rest.

LameFox.6349:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Warriors seem fine in PvP, they should leave PvP unchanged. In PvE warriors need some major nerfs. No class should have the best armor, the best HP and the best damage, it leaves no reason to ever bring another class. The whole point of having light armor classes is that their vulnerability means they get higher damage, if they get rid of that then they are just a liability.

Of course that isn’t what will happen. Anet only cares about PvP balance even though that is only a small part of the game. They will just keep buffing warrior until 99% of PvE players are forced to play warrior alts. I already gave in and made one, the OPness is hilarious, you can just steamroll everything, you don’t even have to think about it.

Sure warrior is boring as kitten, but when you can kill things 3 times as fast, take on twice as many mob’s as other classes, don’t ever need to worry about dying and get more credit for AOE events then any other class, then for making money that just leaves playing a boring warrior.

I don’t think they would try to remove the tank/healer/dps thing on purpose and then be like ‘Good gods, people can do a dungeon using only one class!’ somehow.

True. But part of the claimed reason for doing away with the trinity was to avoid the “need a healer” type LFG waits. But the end result is that you now have all but a few profession getting excluded on the spot, because some appear to get things done faster than others. And shorter fights mean more loot pr unit of time.

digiowl.9620:

True. But part of the claimed reason for doing away with the trinity was to avoid the “need a healer” type LFG waits. But the end result is that you now have all but a few profession getting excluded on the spot, because some appear to get things done faster than others. And shorter fights mean more loot pr unit of time.

Ha! Yeah, thank goodness we got rid of those wait times for a healer or tank and switched to wait times for a Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer. And of course the other professions don’t end up waiting because nobody wants to take them. =p

Considering how Warrior is UP in PvP I wouldn’t mind some PvP love in return for some PvE hate.