Guild Wars 2

…to get you excited about WvW?

What would have to change/be added into the game to make it more appealing to those who primarily farm PvE events and dungeons?

Just curious about some of your responses.

Honestly? I don’t think you’d ever be able to convert a PvE’er who wasn’t already into WvW as well. The holdouts are people who just do not like to PvP; they don’t like competing against other people, and they most certainly do not like being attacked by other players.

As long as WvW holds the risk of being attacked and killed by other players, you will never get these PvE’ers into WvW. (And of course, if you remove that, then it’s not really WvW anymore.)

Personally, as a PvE’r with a little bit of a WvW solo side, I’d like to see a WvW map that doubles as a PvE map with full blown dynamic events.

E.g. take a map like Fields of Ruin and imagine if that was a WvW map. It’s kinda awkward since there are only 2 opposing sides, but you get my idea, I think.

This map would get rid of sentries and keeps/towers and simply have these camps of sort. I think it would also need to have a player-limit of 100 and/or some sort of anti-zerg mechanism such as…

Each Veteran Guild Supervisor/etc would have an attack similar to Lupicus AoE but it would fire, say, 2 shots for one player, 4 shots for 2 players, 8 shots for 3 players etc etc. Each shot aimed slightly at the target, but with varying degrees of random offsets (such as a small speed modifier, a moderate accuracy modifier). This would discourage stacking because all the aoes would surround you and be desynced so dodge rolling wouldn’t work 100% of the time.

It could also have a special buff that is an aura, given to every player character. This buff would not do anything when you’re with 5 other people, but if you start moving with more than 5 players, each player will receive diminished stats, slightly.

I just want an open-world WvW PvE area that doesn’t consist of zerging and can actually be fun to just PvE AND/OR WvW in, without having to worry about zergs.

go 10 min in www forum and you will realize why pvers don t like www.

Also when a “casual pvp” becomes all about winning is a problem for WWWers.

LordByron.8369:

go 10 min in www forum and you will realize why pvers don t like www.

Also when a “casual pvp” becomes all about winning is a problem for WWWers.

Honestly, I spend most of my time on these forums in the WVW section, and it’s pretty comparable to what you see on this side: A whole lot of complaining.

Winning is nice, but honestly I get more satisfaction out of the teamwork and cooperation it takes to run a map.

I like both. What’s my prize?

I’m a PvEr, but I still play SPvP. Not a fan of W3.

I think most PvE players tend to have this feeling of safety when they play. Meaning they are in control of what is happening. They choose who to fight, how to fight, and can do it in a leisurely way. It is a safe environment for them to have fun in.

With PvP (any kind really), there is no safety net for them. It won’t be on their terms and they have to react fast unlike in PvE. Someone could simply come up behind them and kill them within a few hits. Which frustrates some PvE players as they are not in control of their “game”. They want to do fights on their terms and the way they choose to. They don’t want to be forced into fights that they are not ready for or have no chance of surviving.

Also take into account, some of the PvP players are not very welcoming to PvE players. Not singling you out, as I know PvE players can be the same towards PvP players as well. It’s the separation that makes people hesitant to join as well. The attitudes of some of the PvP players makes people “afraid” that they won’t be up to the standards of PvP players and end up getting belittled or insulted.

I remember my first time in W3 was not a fun experience. Got called all kinds of names cause I wasn’t following orders and not listening. I had no idea what half the abbreviations meant or what anyone was saying. When people said to do certain things, I had no idea what they meant. Even got told to kill myself, imagine that.

So yeah, it can be a very unwelcoming experience to new players joining W3. Thus most are hesitant to go and would rather stay in a place where they are comfortable and don’t have to deal with such things.

If they would fix the kittening lag I would go there more often. I can run with maybe 2-5 other people before FPS starts sucking. This keeps pushing me back to sieging which I am useful with.

Similarly to how WvW grants bonuses to player in PvE, some PvE content that can be done to support players in WvW.

If I had the ability to take part in some massive PvE event, and then head to WvW and see that my actions have awakened a dragon which is attacking an enemy keep, that would be interesting. Being able to do something free of human-controlled enemies and see it directly help my allies in WvW.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

What would have to change/be added into the game to make it more appealing to those who primarily farm PvE events and dungeons?

Just curious about some of your responses.

Remove all other players?

No, seriously, what I really don’t like about WvW (and any form of PvP) is that some people are always so serious about winning. Play for fun is something those people don’t understand. And if I get a rising armour repair cost because of that, I will quit.

As ANet cannot change those people, they should remove the armour damage if you get killed by a human player (just like your armour doesn’t get damaged if you drop to your death after jumping that cliff which is just a few 1000 feet too high to drop down safely from…)

How about making the Mists look like something other than Kryta?

Clockradio.3257:

LordByron.8369:

go 10 min in www forum and you will realize why pvers don t like www.

Also when a “casual pvp” becomes all about winning is a problem for WWWers.

Honestly, I spend most of my time on these forums in the WVW section, and it’s pretty comparable to what you see on this side: A whole lot of complaining.

Winning is nice, but honestly I get more satisfaction out of the teamwork and cooperation it takes to run a map.

its not about complaining…

Its about
-“those sjndènfq noobs don t stack with commander they all suck they shouldn t play www”

-the Call of duty players that never lose time to show how “funny” they are (and i m talking of people on my side ….. not even opponents beating me).

also winning strategies being setting alarm clock early morning and PvDoor. (this is mostly an EU issue).

Also the thieves issue. (a class designed to grief? expecially in small servers)

The lag and the zergs.

The AC.

As it is many people think that only commanders and maybe few Others are playing WWW.
If all you can do is staying in a zerg and press 1 is not fun at all.

When this morning i opened a reward chest and found 100 www badges inside i just was so happy to not have to play www <.< its uberboring.

hahaha! I was also really happy about the badges

Seriously?
WvW is not friendly to newcomers- it is confusing and unclear and just as you think you see where you should go a giant zerg shows up and crushes you.
Then it is all the way back to a way point just to rinse and repeat.
No thanks
I like the idea of WvW, the reality just sucks

Morrigan.2809:

hahaha! I was also really happy about the badges

Seriously?
WvW is not friendly to newcomers- it is confusing and unclear and just as you think you see where you should go a giant zerg shows up and crushes you.
Then it is all the way back to a way point just to rinse and repeat.
No thanks
I like the idea of WvW, the reality just sucks

WvW is very friendly to newcomers. Just follow the blue icon around and shot the red names and loot the bags. You’ll pick up the rest over time.

Gotta say as someone who spent 2 months avoiding wvw with this misconception that it was this really bad pvp it is alot of fun and dosnt even feel like pvp alot of the time, 2 armies fighting for victory, its epic

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW. PvE is like a little sandbox where nothing bad happens and if you “fail” then every failure is under controlled conditions so it’s easy to fix. WvW, well you can basically have your entire map taken if your server doesn’t make the effort or have the manpower.

And to be perfectly honest, I’d rather not have PvE farmers coming along to WvW taking up spaces, especially during prime time.

stof.9341:

Morrigan.2809:

hahaha! I was also really happy about the badges

Seriously?
WvW is not friendly to newcomers- it is confusing and unclear and just as you think you see where you should go a giant zerg shows up and crushes you.
Then it is all the way back to a way point just to rinse and repeat.
No thanks
I like the idea of WvW, the reality just sucks

WvW is very friendly to newcomers. Just follow the blue icon around and shot the red names and loot the bags. You’ll pick up the rest over time.

Not when the blue icon rushes at a gate with no siege equipment and gets pinched on two sides by a giant zerg that shows out of nowhere- all the time yelling TimeWarp in map chat as if that would help when you are standing in overlaping red cricles fighting off a sea of reds- urrrgghhh.
I did manage to kill a thief though- but no bag since we were all dead from standing at the gate twiddling our thumbs, including the blue icon I might add.
So what does he do? way points and rushes right back at the same gate- repeat.

No repairs costs.

Morrigan.2809:

Not when the blue icon rushes at a gate with no siege equipment and gets pinched on two sides by a giant zerg that shows out of nowhere- all the time yelling TimeWarp in map chat as if that would help when you are standing in overlaping red cricles fighting off a sea of reds- urrrgghhh.
I did manage to kill a thief though- but no bag since we were all dead from standing at the gate twiddling our thumbs, including the blue icon I might add.
So what does he do? way points and rushes right back at the same gate- repeat

Well, to me it seems you already learned something : not every blue badge is worth following. Remember his name and pick someone else, maybe on another map.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

No repairs costs.

That would go a long way to getting me more into WvW. Frankly, I don’t love dying, I particularly don’t like dying and having to run back, and I hate paying for repairs.

In PvE, there’s more control. If I bite off more than I can chew, at least that was a situation of my own making. But in WvW, I could be 1v1 with a guy and 17 guilds could show up. No fault of my own. Nothing I can do about it. Particularly if I’m wounded already at the time.

I can win a lot of 1v1 battles, but I’m no PvPer. For one thing, it’s lore, story and immersion than make games for me, not beating up other players.

PvP is too much of a “game”. It’s too depedent on others.

Take the Obsidian Sanctum. I’d love that jumping puzzle, if I didn’t have to worry about people camping and ganking me. It sucks the joy out of it.

It’s just something I don’t enjoy.

Nothing.

There is nothing in this game I hate more than Lag vs Zerg vs Door. 50% of my gameplay is PvE, 50% PvP; I don’t need any WvW to have fun.

Zaxares.5419:

Honestly? I don’t think you’d ever be able to convert a PvE’er who wasn’t already into WvW as well. The holdouts are people who just do not like to PvP; they don’t like competing against other people, and they most certainly do not like being attacked by other players.

As long as WvW holds the risk of being attacked and killed by other players, you will never get these PvE’ers into WvW. (And of course, if you remove that, then it’s not really WvW anymore.)

WvW is PvE,with some zerging features,if i want to PvP,i go play tournaments,the level of skill the people in WvW have from a PvP point of view is very low,so i can only assume most of them are in fact PvE players

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

What would have to change/be added into the game to make it more appealing to those who primarily farm PvE events and dungeons?

Just curious about some of your responses.

I bought this game first & foremost for the promise of WvW.
….then ended up doing PvE all the time instead just like in Gw1

Infact I think I actually spent more time in F.A. & A.B. in GW1 (and enjoyed it more too!). Hell even Costume brawl was more fun than I found WvW to be. I’ll be completely honest here… It’s not even about the rewards or Time Vs. Reward… I think certain dungeons just change things up more and require atleast a bit more skill. WvW is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS a numbers game. (unless you’re fighting a ton of squishy lowbies who are just attempting to power level themselves in WvW).

I can imagine there’s a tendency among WvW’ers to believe these core PvE’ers ran back to PvE with their tails between their legs b/c they got roughed up in WvW. But I’m saying as someone who’s been PvP’ing in RPG’s since Diablo1 ? …. It’s probably the opposite. … I tend to just roflstomp most ppl in WvW. Plus there’s no Pee-Vee-Dooring when it comes to the Temples in Orr. There’s also no culling gimmick thieves & BS mesmers in COE & Arah. … No ballistas through doors in A.C.

It would be nice to think that WvW provides better “A.I.” … but right now it’s REALLY hard to tell because the Core issue… the reason it’s so … NOT what Anet promised us open-world PvP’ers … is the way it “flows”. The meta game just has no real incentives besides Zerg tactics. And It doesn’t actually impact the rest of our PvE world in any way. So you’ve got the perfect storm here, of No Risk, and no … Significance! (I’m not saying reward… a good PvP Meta is it’s OWN reward).

Honestly, if you’re considering WvW as PvE, do a favor to you and to WvWers and stick with PvE.

AndrewSX.3794:

Honestly, if you’re considering WvW as PvE, do a favor to you and to WvWers and stick with PvE.

Though I am not too fond of WvW, your comment is elitist and unneeded. Some players may excel at both, anyway. In short, PvE is not either superior or inferior to PvP-it’s just an alternate way of playing the game (PvP is no GW2 “leet badge”.)

To whom it may apply: the “carebears” moniker is so stupid: caring isn’t “bad”, and there’s nothing wrong about those old friendly bears cartoons. Being competitive is not the only way to enjoy life, and people should be allowed to be themselves without being insulted for it.

In short, the world would be a better place if people understood it’s perfectly fine to be different from each other and prefer different things, without pretending that our choices and beliefs must be superior to those of others just because they are our own, and they “must be correct” (“the way I see life is the way everybody else must see it.”)

All it took for me was to walk in and try it one time in late 2012.

Wub-wub’s become a regular part of my play ever since.

Vayne.8563:

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

No repairs costs.

That would go a long way to getting me more into WvW. Frankly, I don’t love dying, I particularly don’t like dying and having to run back, and I hate paying for repairs.

In PvE, there’s more control. If I bite off more than I can chew, at least that was a situation of my own making. But in WvW, I could be 1v1 with a guy and 17 guilds could show up. No fault of my own. Nothing I can do about it. Particularly if I’m wounded already at the time.

this would significantly increase the appeal of WvW for me also

I never was into wvw or similar stuff in other mmo´s. In GW2 I only went in there to get map completion first and then my 500 badges for my gift of battle. After spending more time in wvw, I started liking it and now play wvw more than 60% of my time.

But when I started out, wvw wasnt as competitive as it is right now. These days its harder for new players to get a foothold in wvw without being screamed at for beginners faults.

I think the wvw community can do alot more to make new players feel welcome and important. For example, experienced commanders can offer weekly training events where you take 10 new players to a borderland and do the breakout event. If you focus on explaining alot instead of rushing to the next objective, they will have a way more exciting first experience and might stick around.

$500 per hour + Hayden Panettiere beside me. Then I’d do it.

i’m mostly pve player, for me what held me back is the lack of waypoints.
i agree is impossible to have wp like in pve but for example n your home borderland usually the fights are lghtyears away from first available wp, so if you die you have a 15 min run back.
anything would be better than this, dunno put a cd on respawn rate, or something but this is really the only thing i don’t like of wvw.
well zergfest are not fun at all too and lag is a probem too.
last day we wer at stonemist, 1 team attacked and another was defending, lagged but was still acceptable.
when third server joined was simply lol, would have been great but was mpossible to play.
we also know that wvwe is cpu intensive, but i do refuse to agree on that when a game is using only 1 of my 8 cores, is like if you say that a car is not fast enough, with a v8 engineusing only one cyinder! i don’t have to buy a car that run faster with a single cilynder, maybe the engine need to be reworked to ue all the powr at his own disposition.
i’m an IT guy with passion for hardware but i won’t buy a 1k€ cpu just because you want me to have 12l engine instead of a alread well suited 3l just cause you want me to use 1/x of it’s power.
And no, green charmodels or only nametag or culling is not an option in 2013.
well i admit i’m a hard fan of pve, this is my first mmo ever and 1 online game too, i’m not 15yo, so is hard to modify this preference lol.

After reading some of the replies in this thread, Im fine with people not playing WvW. I don’t want you baddies in my zerg giving the enemy free kills

ow i don’t agree with repair cost, btw, for a pve player. pve players are definetly those who get most “gold” fro the game. 11s with full broken armor is affordable to any serious pve player.
this argument is like those about wp cost.. really? can’t spare couple silver?

Cease & desist with all the temporary PvE content.

or, go one better, and bring temporary content to WvW.
(and I don’t mean the JP, that’s one part of WvW that isn’t even WvW yet is for sure gonna turn people off it).

WvW is the most fun I’ve had in GW2 – a contested tower is far more exciting than any dungeon or world event. A prolonged siege of Bay has one of the most epic feels I’ve had in any game.
and yet .. ever since Southsun I’ve barely set foot there, trying to catch as much of the PvE content as possible before it vanishes (I’m a pretty casual player).

drops of coffers etc is not enough .. what is needed, is something that also will feel like you’ll miss it when it goes.
It doesn’t have to be material content, quests and stuff – that would be nice but just as prone to abuse as the JP.
Maybe bring back some of the Flux effects from GW1? Bring the Living Story to WvW insomuch as the it somehow warps the mists in a similar manner as Flux.

Hmm,

I do play WvW with some degree of frequency, but would play more if:

1) Success was less tied to zerging.
2) Stealth mechanics were changed or removed.
3) Non BM Rangers were more competitive.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

It would have to be a way less competitive.

Yep, you can consider it to be a joke – i do WvW from time to time and generally like it – just not too often, and only when i want to. On the other hand, it’s quite serious, because thats one of the main points of PvP/PvE split. Some people just dislike competing directly against other people. And nothing you do will be able to change that.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

I think most PvE players tend to have this feeling of safety when they play. Meaning they are in control of what is happening. They choose who to fight, how to fight, and can do it in a leisurely way. It is a safe environment for them to have fun in.

With PvP (any kind really), there is no safety net for them. It won’t be on their terms and they have to react fast unlike in PvE. Someone could simply come up behind them and kill them within a few hits. Which frustrates some PvE players as they are not in control of their “game”. They want to do fights on their terms and the way they choose to. They don’t want to be forced into fights that they are not ready for or have no chance of surviving.

This also sums it up pretty good.

I’d never get excited about it honestly. I enjoy having the control over the enemy that i do while playing. I learn their moves and know what’s coming next and can react to it. With players not so much especially in a zone where multiples will gang up on you.

Support in this game is severely lacking as well imo so healers pretty much are useless especially without a direct heal cone option as found in other titles with more successful trinity lite as i like to call it. So even when you choose to lower the damage output of an enemy by doing all the right defensive things in this game most of it doesn’t matter considering the number of ways they can stun lock you forever and prevent you from healing yourself properly.

It’s a problem for both PVE and PVP the support role just really isn’t there.

the support role is there its just not as clear, for instance if your being stunned/thrown around then use a stun-breaker which imo you should always carry and weather its against players or mobs, kite them, get space and heal and re-engage when your ready.

what i see a lot is in both pvp/wvw and PvE a lot of players stand there and take the hits maybe a dodge or two but they dont kite, GW2 has a very active combat system where to be honest weather its pvp/pve/wvw (obviously some bosses there a safespots etc) you should continue moving as much as possible to create space, ans the like.

out and out PvE players i don’t think will ever get into WvW especially after trying to get there map completion, haha.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

With PvP (any kind really), there is no safety net for them. It won’t be on their terms and they have to react fast unlike in PvE.

This is another bad thing that convinced me to quit www after 3 months playing almost only www.

PvE: 1 mistake = downed, often you can t even ress or be ressed.
WWW has a huge margin for mistakes

In PVE you are not covered by zergs

The urban legend that WWW is harder than PvE is like saying rock-paper-scissors is harder than qwop.
Is a cliche used for every game.

I did played www for months, and i comes from competitive fighting games (tournaments)…..i think that gw2 WWW is not that much about skill nor about PvP.

But seems infact people can t understad what anet meant with “casual pvp” thus most player do not enjoy current www.

Breaking the PvDoor/Zerg Vs Zerg metagame.

I’ve spent my time in WvW, and after a while it came down to the same routine over and over; during prime time form a giant zerg, punch through the enemy with weight of numbers until they were demoralised.

During the downtime when the enemy had you outnumbered, fight a hopeless losing battle against their giant zerg hoping slow them enough that they don’t get too many points before prime time cycles back in.

Mostly, it wasn’t fun. And it only got less fun with every mesmer nerf (Longer cooldowns, no attacking people on walls, 2 second telegraph on pulls etc etc)

oloap.9765:

ow i don’t agree with repair cost, btw, for a pve player. pve players are definetly those who get most “gold” fro the game. 11s with full broken armor is affordable to any serious pve player.
this argument is like those about wp cost.. really? can’t spare couple silver?

Depends on how much you die. Seems to me that it’s quite easy for someone experienced and really specced right to take down a PvE’er quite easily.

I’m a bit of an exception, because I actually don’t mind PvP (and in fact do okay at it), but for most PvE’er’s it’s not 11 silver. It’s 11 silver over and over again.

Fighting AI is not the same as fighting people. Obviously the more people you fight the better you get, which has happened to me. This isn’t working so I try that…which works better.

But what you probably don’t understand is that for a lot of people, they enjoy “playing the hero”. It’s very easy to do that in PvE and very hard to do that in WvW. You know, you can run in and solo a champion, and you feel like a god, then you go into WvW for map completion and some thief tears you a new kitten. Not great for the ego.

So it’s a different mindset from the beginning. PvPers love the challenge, PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo or Aragorn…maybe even Gandalf. It doesn’t look good when the first guy you meet beats the crap out of you.

Vayne.8563:

PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo

A whimpering weakling who constantly needs to be babysitted?

Vayne.8563:

oloap.9765:

ow i don’t agree with repair cost, btw, for a pve player. pve players are definetly those who get most “gold” fro the game. 11s with full broken armor is affordable to any serious pve player.
this argument is like those about wp cost.. really? can’t spare couple silver?

Depends on how much you die. Seems to me that it’s quite easy for someone experienced and really specced right to take down a PvE’er quite easily.

I’m a bit of an exception, because I actually don’t mind PvP (and in fact do okay at it), but for most PvE’er’s it’s not 11 silver. It’s 11 silver over and over again.

Fighting AI is not the same as fighting people. Obviously the more people you fight the better you get, which has happened to me. This isn’t working so I try that…which works better.

But what you probably don’t understand is that for a lot of people, they enjoy “playing the hero”. It’s very easy to do that in PvE and very hard to do that in WvW. You know, you can run in and solo a champion, and you feel like a god, then you go into WvW for map completion and some thief tears you a new kitten. Not great for the ego.

So it’s a different mindset from the beginning. PvPers love the challenge, PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo or Aragorn…maybe even Gandalf. It doesn’t look good when the first guy you meet beats the crap out of you.

moar urban legends

Ever wondered why Thieves are so good at www and so bad at PvE?
(its not about the class not being strong in PvE…actually its really efficient and FEW thief players can prove it)

or again

Get a necro drop mark in a zerg battle… go home rich
Same could be done with old mesmer with confusion

What about using a guardian or a Warrior?
Map completion in few hours (even ele can still do that with fiery GS).

How can people remotely say WWW needs any PvP skill?
I could go on forever giving reasons.

A commander needs a particular set of skills to be effective at WWW.
A player does not…nor as roamer, nor as zerg player.

First time i got in www i thougt “really www players get hit by that?”

Dedlaw.9130:

Vayne.8563:

PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo

A whimpering weakling who constantly needs to be babysitted?

lolololol

Dedlaw.9130:

Vayne.8563:

PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo

A whimpering weakling who constantly needs to be babysitted?

I guess you didn’t read the book.

Well I can’t really WvW due to lag and that’s not likely to change anytime soon.

I might be more inclined to pop over regardless if you could change between a PvE and a WvW build without having to go reset traits since the builds I use for PvE don’t really work so well in against actual players.

Vayne.8563:

Dedlaw.9130:

Vayne.8563:

PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo

A whimpering weakling who constantly needs to be babysitted?

I guess you didn’t read the book.

Actually I have. Does a joke need to be an accurate representation of the truth?

Why don’t I WvW? I find it exceedingly dull.

Zerg vs zerg? /yawn

Using siege? /yawn x2

Running back for 5 minutes after each death? /yawn x3

Roaming is mildly more fun, until the next zerg sweeps through, then it’s more of the above.

So, in answer to the OP’s question, I’m not sure what it would take to get me to play WvW, other than a complete overhaul of what it is.

The real bummer for me is that, prior to launch, WvW was the game mode I was most excited about.

Dedlaw.9130:

Vayne.8563:

Dedlaw.9130:

Vayne.8563:

PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo

A whimpering weakling who constantly needs to be babysitted?

I guess you didn’t read the book.

Actually I have. Does a joke need to be an accurate representation of the truth?

Of course not. But then it would leave my post looking sort of silly, me saying people want to pretend to be Frodo. When I first read Lord of the Rings (a looooooong time ago), he made quite the impression on me. I’ve grown up a lot now.

Now I just want to be treebeard.

Vayne.8563:

Now I just want to be treebeard.

I’d rather be Celeborn… just sayin’.

Vayne.8563:

Of course not. But then it would leave my post looking sort of silly, me saying people want to pretend to be Frodo. When I first read Lord of the Rings (a looooooong time ago), he made quite the impression on me. I’ve grown up a lot now.

Now I just want to be treebeard.

Well I would guess the amount of players who’ve read LoTR would be less than those who’ve just watched the movie, which is the misrepresentation the joke is based on, so I think most players would be making a similar assumption