Guild Wars 2

Aedelric.1287:

Sure, I will go with this strange car metaphor, we all bought `new´cars and Arena Net is the extremely dodgy salesman/junkyard owner.

Really the comparison you two chose is not helping your argument in the slightest. If you can not justify things without a metaphor, then perhaps their is no justification to your point of view at all.

So rather than address the analogue (not metaphor) you’ll dismiss it out of hand? It’s a perfect comparator – you bought a product, an updated one came out, end of.

One suggestion I would make is that this also be made obtainable somehow in game, that might settle things down a bit.

Try this one as a comparison then. (I find it so funny when metaphors and the like are dismissed because it’s not 100% exactly like the situation at hand but is close enough unless you happen to disagree with the result).

When I moved in to my apartment, I ordered cable. I signed a one-year contract, and I got the standard channels with no premium channels for $50 per month (I don’t remember the amount, but $50 is as good as any).

Two months later, I’m watching TV and I see a commercial for the same cable company. If I act right now, I can get the basic setup plus free HBO and Showtime for, you guessed it, $50 per month if I sign up for a one-year contract.

But… but… I just signed up two months ago and didn’t get that deal! A friend of mine had the same thing happen and tried to get upgraded. The upgrade never happened. And it really shouldn’t. Because at the time I signed the contract, it was what was offered, and I was fine with it. The fact that the new deal is better doesn’t matter. I got what I wanted when I wanted it. End of story.

Sauzo.6821:

You are missing the point. The sprockets alone mean jack. Again it’s the fact that the pick is the beginning of a P2W system. To start with Anet offered the molten trio set 1-2 months ago for 2850 gems knowing that this new pick was going to be released. So in essence they were just cash grabbing with that molten set to customers which is just insulting. Now with the new pick, there is a clearly an advantage with it however small, it is still an advantage. So next they can make a new axe and harvesting tool and then maybe a new kit better than BL ones and sell those on the cash grab store too. After that offer better boosters or new ranks of class skills and then hell why stop there. Maybe offer legendary quality weapons for sale. See what’s happening? Anet has opened the door to the start of a P2W system with this pick and I’m sure the gap between players will increase. So soon it will be “Oh you don’t have the new set of higher tiered skills? Sorry we don’t feel like carrying you in this dungeon. /kick” So while you are most certainly right that a pick that offers a few sprockets is hardly something to get bent over, the idea behind it and direction it looks like Anet is going coupled with like I said the pure cash grab of offering an “obsolete” tool set 1-2 months ago and then this new one in such a short span is starting to show Anets true colors and definitely isn’t going to instill any form of trust to them from their customers.

The fallacies are strong in this one. Allow me to pick this apart (pun intended):

1) The new pick is not P2W by any means. It walks a fine line, but it’s by no means “winning” if I have it over another player.

2) How do you go from “new pick is P2W” to “Oh you don’t have the new set of higher tiered skills”?

3) Please tell me where Anet said that they would never release another infinite tool? A majority of the player based correctly assumed a long time ago that there would be new types in the future. The Molten pick matched up with the Living Story at the time. The Watchwork pick matches up with the Scarlet LS now. AS time goes on, more themed tools will come out.

4) The old infinite tools still work. I can still mine Orichalcum nodes for ever and ever without buying a new tool.

5) Lastly, there’s a difference between wanting the new pick, and needing the new pick. Most complainers merely want the new one. This pattern will occur each time a new tool is released.

6) Adding to my point #1, GW2 is not P2W. Most complainers throwing around that term have no idea what it means. They only want to connect the negative aspect of that term to the game, because they’re upset.

Maybe I missed something on the math but it seems the new pick isn’t a particularly good deal. At 200 more gems that is what around 15g right now? Sprockets are under 50 copper… that is around 3500 or so sprockets just to break even.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Sauzo.6821:

You are missing the point. The sprockets alone mean jack. Again it’s the fact that the pick is the beginning of a P2W system. To start with Anet offered the molten trio set 1-2 months ago for 2850 gems knowing that this new pick was going to be released. So in essence they were just cash grabbing with that molten set to customers which is just insulting. Now with the new pick, there is a clearly an advantage with it however small, it is still an advantage. So next they can make a new axe and harvesting tool and then maybe a new kit better than BL ones and sell those on the cash grab store too. After that offer better boosters or new ranks of class skills and then hell why stop there. Maybe offer legendary quality weapons for sale. See what’s happening? Anet has opened the door to the start of a P2W system with this pick and I’m sure the gap between players will increase. So soon it will be “Oh you don’t have the new set of higher tiered skills? Sorry we don’t feel like carrying you in this dungeon. /kick” So while you are most certainly right that a pick that offers a few sprockets is hardly something to get bent over, the idea behind it and direction it looks like Anet is going coupled with like I said the pure cash grab of offering an “obsolete” tool set 1-2 months ago and then this new one in such a short span is starting to show Anets true colors and definitely isn’t going to instill any form of trust to them from their customers.

The fallacies are strong in this one. Allow me to pick this apart (pun intended):

1) The new pick is not P2W by any means. It walks a fine line, but it’s by no means “winning” if I have it over another player.

2) How do you go from “new pick is P2W” to “Oh you don’t have the new set of higher tiered skills”?

3) Please tell me where Anet said that they would never release another infinite tool? A majority of the player based correctly assumed a long time ago that there would be new types in the future. The Molten pick matched up with the Living Story at the time. The Watchwork pick matches up with the Scarlet LS now. AS time goes on, more themed tools will come out.

4) The old infinite tools still work. I can still mine Orichalcum nodes for ever and ever without buying a new tool.

5) Lastly, there’s a difference between wanting the new pick, and needing the new pick. Most complainers merely want the new one. This pattern will occur each time a new tool is released.

6) Adding to my point #1, GW2 is not P2W. Most complainers throwing around that term have no idea what it means. They only want to connect the negative aspect of that term to the game, because they’re upset.

1) Anything that gives another player an advantage over another no matter how small is still a “win”. Whether it be 1 point or 0.000001 point, it is still more than the other person.

2) I was using the skills as an example of what Anet CAN do since with this new pick, it raises the vertical progression higher. So by making the same skills but with say a higher dmg or longer duration and by selling it on the gem store, it would be a vertical progression also.

3) And again another player who missed the point. Coming out with a new item is no big deal and is to be expected but adding vertical progression to an item which has been equal to those bought from vendors and considered as a cosmetic or convienence item is the argument since this one item opens the door to other items being sold in the gem store as vertical progression thus widening the gap between players aka skills for example in my answer #2.

4) See answer 3.

5) Again see answer 3.

6) While GW2 at the moment is not full on P2W, the direction they are going again with the vertical progression leaves it very open to a P2W system. Again they can add a new tier of class skills and sell them on the gem store. They could put new recipes in that add more rune or sigil slots and sell them on the gem store. They can release new axes that reward maybe an ecto or something or a new harvest tool that rewards something or in a couple months when sales on the new pick flatten, make another pick that gives sprockets AND quartz crystals. Regardless they can do whatever and all those examples would lean more and more towards a P2W system.

And finally you do know GW2 is actually run by NcSoft and if you have ever played Lineage 2 or Aion, you know that their cash shops were their main focus.

And yes I know what P2W is. Ever play EQ1? Or EQ2? Neither of those games had a cash shop and you had to earn everything you got. Later though SoE did add a cash shop to EQ2 cause they saw that most people are lazy by nature and would rather spend cash for stuff than earn it. This happened in EQ1 too but it was a 3rd party site called Playerauctions and Ebay.

Straegen.2938:

Maybe I missed something on the math but it seems the new pick isn’t a particularly good deal. At 200 more gems that is what around 15g right now? Sprockets are under 50 copper… that is around 3500 or so sprockets just to break even.

Actually it’s not 200 more gems unless you are comparing it to the very old molten alliance pick that was soulbound. The new molten picks and bone picks were all 1000 gems as well and the old ones could be converted for free at the BLM to the acct bound ones.

I feel like this thread is starting to unravel. please tone it down guys; less ‘!’, ‘?’, sarcasm, and rhetorical questions.

To answer a couple questions: no, I am not expecting a refund. Or even an answer. But I know they’ll read this, so I am requesting one to make a point: that I will not play a vertical progression game. I play GW2 because they believed in horizontal progression. I’m not going to be buying a new tool every couple months so it maintains my BiS gear.
I feel lied to, cheated, and they taught me a good lesson: don’t buy things from the gem store if it’s possible they could be one-upped. If they cared about the player-base and did give refunds to people or made the old infinite tools just as good, it would certainly solve the problem about being worried that what you purchase will ever be obsolete. That’s what I’m getting at.

Sauzo.6821:

1) Anything that gives another player an advantage over another no matter how small is still a “win”. Whether it be 1 point or 0.000001 point, it is still more than the other person.

2) I was using the skills as an example of what Anet CAN do since with this new pick, it raises the vertical progression higher. So by making the same skills but with say a higher dmg or longer duration and by selling it on the gem store, it would be a vertical progression also.

3) And again another player who missed the point. Coming out with a new item is no big deal and is to be expected but adding vertical progression to an item which has been equal to those bought from vendors and considered as a cosmetic or convienence item is the argument since this one item opens the door to other items being sold in the gem store as vertical progression thus widening the gap between players aka skills for example in my answer #2.

4) See answer 3.

5) Again see answer 3.

6) While GW2 at the moment is not full on P2W, the direction they are going again with the vertical progression leaves it very open to a P2W system. Again they can add a new tier of class skills and sell them on the gem store. They could put new recipes in that add more rune or sigil slots and sell them on the gem store. They can release new axes that reward maybe an ecto or something or a new harvest tool that rewards something or in a couple months when sales on the new pick flatten, make another pick that gives sprockets AND quartz crystals. Regardless they can do whatever and all those examples would lean more and more towards a P2W system.

And finally you do know GW2 is actually run by NcSoft and if you have ever played Lineage 2 or Aion, you know that their cash shops were their main focus.

And yes I know what P2W is. Ever play EQ1? Or EQ2? Neither of those games had a cash shop and you had to earn everything you got. Later though SoE did add a cash shop to EQ2 cause they saw that most people are lazy by nature and would rather spend cash for stuff than earn it. This happened in EQ1 too but it was a 3rd party site called Playerauctions and Ebay.

1) Pay to win doesn’t relate to convenience. Pay to win means having a statistical advantage head to head with another player who did not spend the money you did.
Where in the world does someone getting a freaking sprocket out of a mining node with a 20% chance translate to statistical advantage over another player?

2) Again, a gathering tool has nothing to do with vertical progression.
And no, Anet won’t start releasing “high tier” skills with better modifiers or durations.
They most likely only added the sprockets to this pick simply because at the end of this living story, the only other source of sprockets will be the nodes from this patch’s meta achievement. They’re simply trying to make sure there will still be sprockets around to those who want them.

3) Again, not vertical progression.
Also, the only similarity between the vendor picks and the molten pick is that they can mine the same nodes. The molten pick is a one time investment, and now you can make a one time investment that also maintains sprockets in the market.

4+5) Smooth said it.

6) “..GW2 at the moment is not full on P2W..” GW2 has NO P2W at all, and they’re not taking any direction with vertical progression other than them adding ascended gear, which we’ve known would come since Fractals was introduced late 2012.
Ascended gear was made to serve the purpose of adding infusion slots, they chose to make a full set of ascended instead of just accessories.
If those 2% stat increase bothers you, then that’s your issue, I personally don’t care about that minor stat increase.

I agree Mystic. This thread has become like beating a dead horse. You know full well Anet will not do anything about this and if sales are good, they probably will actually create other items like this and I honestly expect to see a new pick in 6 months tops that betters the one out now once sales flatten on this new one.

Anyways guys, live with it or move on. EQNext goes on public display end of this month so there is hope for that in a year. :P

Smooth Penguin.5294:

3) Please tell me where Anet said that they would never release another infinite tool? A majority of the player based correctly assumed a long time ago that there would be new types in the future. The Molten pick matched up with the Living Story at the time. The Watchwork pick matches up with the Scarlet LS now. AS time goes on, more themed tools will come out.

Have to agree here. I simply assumed (and still do) that there would (will be) be another opportunity to get those items, likely cheaper, and if not cheaper, maybe a new version. I still assume this with almost everything on the gem store. There’s likely going to be something better that comes along because they are constantly working on this stuff

What OP wants is akin to buying a new cell phone for $200 and then after a little while a new version of that same phone comes out, but now with some marginally better arbitrary additional feature that yours doesn’t have for $250 (instead of $200), and you bring your old model phone back to the store to demand a refund and/or a free upgrade.

It sounds ridiculous because it is.

Always assume a company will increase it’s product line over the course of years. Most product categories have a low, mid, and high end version. There’s a smaller market for the high end, but you make more money off of them so you don’t need to sell as many. How do you get people to purchase the higher end, higher priced item? By adding an additional feature(s) the other, less expensive one doesn’t have.

Welcome to Capitalism, you guys must be new here…

Mystic.5934:

If they cared about the player-base and did give refunds to people or made the old infinite tools just as good, it would certainly solve the problem about being worried that what you purchase will ever be obsolete. That’s what I’m getting at.

Your purchase will never be obsolete, it works as intended, the way it was described to work when you purchased it.
Why should you get a refund for this, just because something new and shiny has come out?

So if I buy a makeover kit, and change my appearance to something I like, and I play with that for a few months, and then Anet adds new faces/hairstyles/whatever to the makeover kit, should I get a refund too, since these new options were not available when I bought my makeover kit?
Was I suddenly not happy with my purchase the past few months after all, was it all an illusion?

Come on guys, get real, get over it.

Symph.8407:

Sauzo.6821:

1) Anything that gives another player an advantage over another no matter how small is still a “win”. Whether it be 1 point or 0.000001 point, it is still more than the other person.

2) I was using the skills as an example of what Anet CAN do since with this new pick, it raises the vertical progression higher. So by making the same skills but with say a higher dmg or longer duration and by selling it on the gem store, it would be a vertical progression also.

3) And again another player who missed the point. Coming out with a new item is no big deal and is to be expected but adding vertical progression to an item which has been equal to those bought from vendors and considered as a cosmetic or convienence item is the argument since this one item opens the door to other items being sold in the gem store as vertical progression thus widening the gap between players aka skills for example in my answer #2.

4) See answer 3.

5) Again see answer 3.

6) While GW2 at the moment is not full on P2W, the direction they are going again with the vertical progression leaves it very open to a P2W system. Again they can add a new tier of class skills and sell them on the gem store. They could put new recipes in that add more rune or sigil slots and sell them on the gem store. They can release new axes that reward maybe an ecto or something or a new harvest tool that rewards something or in a couple months when sales on the new pick flatten, make another pick that gives sprockets AND quartz crystals. Regardless they can do whatever and all those examples would lean more and more towards a P2W system.

And finally you do know GW2 is actually run by NcSoft and if you have ever played Lineage 2 or Aion, you know that their cash shops were their main focus.

1) Pay to win doesn’t relate to convenience. Pay to win means having a statistical advantage head to head with another player who did not spend the money you did.
Where in the world does someone getting a freaking sprocket out of a mining node with a 20% chance translate to statistical advantage over another player?

2) Again, a gathering tool has nothing to do with vertical progression.
And no, Anet won’t start releasing “high tier” skills with better modifiers or durations.
They most likely only added the sprockets to this pick simply because at the end of this living story, the only other source of sprockets will be the nodes from this patch’s meta achievement. They’re simply trying to make sure there will still be sprockets around to those who want them.

3) Again, not vertical progression.
Also, the only similarity between the vendor picks and the molten pick is that they can mine the same nodes. The molten pick is a one time investment, and now you can make a one time investment that also maintains sprockets in the market.

4+5) Smooth said it.

6) “..GW2 at the moment is not full on P2W..” GW2 has NO P2W at all, and they’re not taking any direction with vertical progression other than them adding ascended gear, which we’ve known would come since Fractals was introduced late 2012.
Ascended gear was made to serve the purpose of adding infusion slots, they chose to make a full set of ascended instead of just accessories.
If those 2% stat increase bothers you, then that’s your issue, I personally don’t care about that minor stat increase.

1) It is still an advantage although only a 45cp advantage atm.

2) Going from a pick that only gather ore to a pick that gathers ore AND sprockets is vertical progression. And no I don’t agree they only did this to pick up where the living story leaves off since quartz crystals were taken out when that part of the living story left and the only way to acquire those is from a home node, same as the sprocket node. And both are used for armor recipes.

3) Again going from 2 picks that do the same thing other than one being a cosmetic/convienence thing to one that will give resources only attainable by that item is an upgrade, not just a convienece.

6) Reread my #6. I never said GW2 was full on P2W but this could very well be the start of it. Who are you to guarantee they don’t make upgraded skills? How do you know. According to Anet before the game was even released, they said they didn’t want a gear treadmill. Well guess what, we got a treadmill. Unless you got facts to back up your statement of Anet is not going vertical progression, then your statement is just a guess just like mine except I do have the fact we went from 2 picks which only harvested ore and gems to now a pick that harvests all that PLUS sprockets.

Personally I hope they make ascended 2.0 as I’ve finished full ascended on my guard and almost my 5th legendary. I need something new to do other than leveling a 9th level 80. My biggest complaint really is that 1-2 month ago Anet offered the molten alliance trio of tools for 2850 gems knowing that they were gonna release this pick. It’s like they wanted to do a cash grab. Not very cool and more of a slap in the face to your customer base. But whatever, at the end of day, a game doesn’t really affect your life and there will always be a new game popping up. Let’s hear it for EQNext!!!

Symph.8407:

Your purchase will never be obsolete, it works as intended, the way it was described to work when you purchased it.
Why should you get a refund for this, just because something new and shiny has come out?

You keep on repeating this obvious falsehood but it is a lie. Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

The pick no longer works, as it can not be equipped and used anymore when you purchase the new pick. There is no reason to ever use the old one again if you have a new pick. It will simply take up storage space and you might as well delete it.

They should never ever have released a better pick. Especially not so soon after selling the previous version. 12 euros is already a lot of money for a best in slot gathering tool. If they keep repeating this behavior, you need to pay 12 euros every few months to replace it. And there may be others too. Where does it stop? Pay 3×12 euros every few months to replace your obsolete picks, axes and sickles?

Just let us upgrade our Molten picks to the new ones for 200 gems each. I don’t want to regret that I bought 14 of those picks for myself and my wife.

Shakkara.2641:

Symph.8407:

Your purchase will never be obsolete, it works as intended, the way it was described to work when you purchased it.
Why should you get a refund for this, just because something new and shiny has come out?

You keep on repeating this obvious falsehood but it is a lie. Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

The pick no longer works, as it can not be equipped and used anymore when you purchase the new pick. There is no reason to ever use the old one again if you have a new pick. It will simply take up storage space and you might as well delete it.

They should never ever have released a better pick. Especially not so soon after selling the previous version. 12 euros is already a lot of money for a best in slot gathering tool. If they keep repeating this behavior, you need to pay 12 euros every few months to replace it. And there may be others too. Where does it stop? Pay 3×12 euros every few months to replace your obsolete picks, axes and sickles?

If you buy the new one with the intend of using it instead of the old one, obviously the old one won’t be used. – meaningless argument

The point is, you don’t have to buy the new one, you don’t NEED it, because the one you already have still works. It does EXACTLY what it has always done, and that’s the reason you bought it to begin with. Just because there’s something new (and possibly better) now, doesn’t mean the it won’t perform the function you bought for, or that it didn’t over the past few months.

Sauzo.6821:

According to Anet before the game was even released, they said they didn’t want a gear treadmill. Well guess what, we got a treadmill.

We don’t have a gear treadmill. We just got ascended gear.
For it to be a treadmill, you would have to need the ascended gear to progress in the game, which you don’t. You would have to get new and better gear from that new content that you could progress to thanks to ascended gear – oh wait, that doesn’t exist…

You’re just making up problems and catastrophes where there are none.

Symph.8407:

If you buy the new one with the intend of using it instead of the old one, obviously the old one won’t be used. – meaningless argument

Most meaningful argument, and the main reason why so many people are angry. Too bad you do not possess a superior Asuran intellect to understand this, bookah.

Symph.8407:

The point is, you don’t have to buy the new one, you don’t NEED it, because the one you already have still works.

It’s no longer best in slot. So it’s not the “last pickaxe I’ll ever buy”, as advertised.

Symph.8407:

It does EXACTLY what it has always done,

No, until now it has always gathered my ore. Now it’s sitting in the bank gathering dust. And I’m better off deleting it to free up an inventory slot.

Symph.8407:

and that’s the reason you bought it to begin with. Just because there’s something new (and possibly better) now, doesn’t mean the it won’t perform the function you bought for, or that it didn’t over the past few months.

The new and better one prevents me from using the old one. I cannot equip both at the same time. There is no reason or incentive to keep on using the old one, as the new one is statistically better in every aspect.

If the old pickaxe would yield resource A and the new one would yield resource B, or the sprockets come at the cost of the extra ore etc, then we wouldn’t have this problem.

It is a problem that we now have vertical progression in the gemshop. This should be killed in the bud, as they might repeat this again and again. Like I said before, soon we’ll be paying 3×12 euros every few months to keep our harvesting tools best-in-slot…

Shakkara.2641:

Symph.8407:

Your purchase will never be obsolete, it works as intended, the way it was described to work when you purchased it.
Why should you get a refund for this, just because something new and shiny has come out?

You keep on repeating this obvious falsehood but it is a lie. Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

The pick no longer works, as it can not be equipped and used anymore when you purchase the new pick. There is no reason to ever use the old one again if you have a new pick. It will simply take up storage space and you might as well delete it.

They should never ever have released a better pick. Especially not so soon after selling the previous version. 12 euros is already a lot of money for a best in slot gathering tool. If they keep repeating this behavior, you need to pay 12 euros every few months to replace it. And there may be others too. Where does it stop? Pay 3×12 euros every few months to replace your obsolete picks, axes and sickles?

You just accuse a guy of lying and then you create that second paragraph. The old picks do continue to work. Has your whole case been based on misinformation?

zenleto.6179:

You just accuse a guy of lying and then you create that second paragraph. The old picks do continue to work. Has your whole case been based on misinformation?

They DO NOT WORK as I can no longer equip them. There is a better item occupying that slot.

Shakkara.2641:

zenleto.6179:

You just accuse a guy of lying and then you create that second paragraph. The old picks do continue to work. Has your whole case been based on misinformation?

They DO NOT WORK as I can no longer equip them. There is a better item occupying that slot.

LOL ok, I see.

Symph.8407:

Sauzo.6821:

According to Anet before the game was even released, they said they didn’t want a gear treadmill. Well guess what, we got a treadmill.

We don’t have a gear treadmill. We just got ascended gear.
For it to be a treadmill, you would have to need the ascended gear to progress in the game, which you don’t. You would have to get new and better gear from that new content that you could progress to thanks to ascended gear – oh wait, that doesn’t exist…

You’re just making up problems and catastrophes where there are none.

Too bad exotic gear was supposed to be the best, then they added ascended. What’s next, ascended V2? Go back and read the manifesto where Anet said they don’t want another MMO where you have to mindlessly kill mobs to advance. Guess what, you Do have to mindlessly kill stuff to advance.

Oh wait, by your reasoning since we don’t NEED the new pick, then we don’t need any armor other than greens(blues if you don’t do dungeons) and we don’t need any tools except for the Ori stuff. Oh wait, we actually don’t need any tools since we don’t need crafting cause you can just buy blues or greens off the TP.

And btw what you are talking about is called “gated content” where you need certain gear to progress and yes that’s in the game too. Look at fractals and agony resist. Try doing fractals 30+ with no agony and see how well you do.

So while you are right to an extent in that you don’t need any gear or crafting to do most of the content, you do need certain gear to progress in fractals which is really the only “new” content.

The old picks still do work technically but realistically would you equip it over the new pick? No, so in essence it doesn’t work anymore for all intent and purpose. So really the old picks do become obsolete if you purchase the new pick. So your choice boils down to buy the new pick and start collecting sprockets and have obsolete old picks or use your old picks and have an obsolete item since there is a better version out.

Sauzo.6821:

~~snip~~

Sorry mate, but you have absolutely no idea what Pay 2 Win is. P2W means you “pay” to have an advantage over other players. So say Anet offered a Mega Legendary Greatsword that could be wielded by one hand. Say this sword can only be purchased via Gems obtained with real money (no Gem exchanges allowed). Then take two of these uber swords into PvP, and you then have “Pay 2 Win”. Why? Because you “paid” money to have a statistical advantage over a “non-paying” player.

Being able to get a couple of extra sprockets from mining does not come close to “winning”. I’ve said that it comes close, but it doesn’t cross that line.

Mystic.5934:

I would never of bought this pick had I known a functionally better one was going to be released. That’s the problem with vertical progression, and what I previously loved about GW2. However, if we get to upgrade lesser picks for free, then it’s not really progression but rather replacing – like changing the stats of an item type to balance it.

fair warning: I’ll be requesting this same refund again if you ever release a pick that is better than the watchwork pick.

Do you ask for refunds on every item you own that currently has a new version? Better complain about your computer, because I guarantee you there are newer, better ones out there. Same with your cell phone, car, television, you get the idea. So good luck.

Sauzo.6821:

The old picks still do work technically but realistically would you equip it over the new pick? No, so in essence it doesn’t work anymore for all intent and purpose. So really the old picks do become obsolete if you purchase the new pick. So your choice boils down to buy the new pick and start collecting sprockets and have obsolete old picks or use your old picks and have an obsolete item since there is a better version out.

I have 41 characters and 10 or so infinite resource collection tools. They will all still be equipped and used, none of them will be obsolete. I don’t even swap them around my characters.

If your comment was directed at me then I’ll quite happily tell you that you wasted your time. If it wasn’t and you are only stating your opinion then that’s fine but please don’t think you have any special knowledge that applies to everybody.

I love the logic behind this post. I bought a 2013 Camaro and the 2014 Camaro is better so maybe I should ask for a refund because they sold me exactly what was stated, but never told me the 2014 would be better.

ILLSPAWN, are you comparing the actual real-world technological progress to a game developer implementing an additional item drop in their digital mining pick? Wow.

ILLSPAWN.5340:

I love the logic behind this post. I bought a 2013 Camaro and the 2014 Camaro is better so maybe I should ask for a refund because they sold me exactly what was stated, but never told me the 2014 would be better.

Well if you’re going to go there, go all the way – With cars you know their is going to be a new model every year, with the tools we had reason to suspect there would be new skins, but no, there was no hint they were going to start fundamentally altering the bargain in the future.

And if they want it to be like cars, then they also get to experience the fun of people deliberately holding off buying. There is no profit in telling people “you’re a fool to buy now” with one hand while the other is waving you over proclaiming “You only have 4 days left – get it now. Now. NOW!”

I can’t tell if they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for sales or if they just deliberately want to cheese off proven customers. There is no good way to spin it that this represents the move of a sensible and thriving storefront. Its burning goodwill to ash for a few quick bucks.

Zaxares.5419:

Go talk to the Black Lion Weapon specialists in LA. They allow you to change your soulbound tools to account bound versions.

Mind you though, you need to have the pick on you to make the trade, so if you deleted the character they were originally bound to and thus can’t take them out of the bank, I’m not sure this could help you. :/

Spot on. They’re stuck in the bank.

Deamhan.9538:

Zaxares.5419:

Go talk to the Black Lion Weapon specialists in LA. They allow you to change your soulbound tools to account bound versions.

Mind you though, you need to have the pick on you to make the trade, so if you deleted the character they were originally bound to and thus can’t take them out of the bank, I’m not sure this could help you. :/

Spot on. They’re stuck in the bank.

I would recommend filing a support ticket that outlines your situation and then comment in the Account Issues forum and include your ticket # there and see if Gaile can offer insight into the situation as well. As this item was given the ability to be made account bound, it is not exactly an issue of a standard soulbound item being bound to a deleted character, it is an issue of a soulbound item that was given the ability to be converted to account bound and the soulbound version discontinued from being sold any longer, and your unconverted version being stuck before it could be converted. As you are unable to make this conversion, they should be able to convert your soulbound version into the account bound version manually. The reason they placed the conversion task on the Weapons Specialist NPC was due to there being thousands of these items needing to be converted and that would cause too much of a hangup in Support to do it all manually. It can be done manually, it was just not the ideal way to do the mass conversions.

Again, check with support and seek Gaile’s assistance in Account Issues. I’m sure this has come up before.

Symph.8407:

Sauzo.6821:

According to Anet before the game was even released, they said they didn’t want a gear treadmill. Well guess what, we got a treadmill.

We don’t have a gear treadmill. We just got ascended gear.
For it to be a treadmill, you would have to need the ascended gear to progress in the game, which you don’t. You would have to get new and better gear from that new content that you could progress to thanks to ascended gear – oh wait, that doesn’t exist…

You’re just making up problems and catastrophes where there are none.

I like this one. We wasn’t beaten, we just got few slaps in the face

StinVec.3621:

Deamhan.9538:

Zaxares.5419:

Go talk to the Black Lion Weapon specialists in LA. They allow you to change your soulbound tools to account bound versions.

Mind you though, you need to have the pick on you to make the trade, so if you deleted the character they were originally bound to and thus can’t take them out of the bank, I’m not sure this could help you. :/

Spot on. They’re stuck in the bank.

I would recommend filing a support ticket that outlines your situation and then comment in the Account Issues forum and include your ticket # there and see if Gaile can offer insight into the situation as well. As this item was given the ability to be made account bound, it is not exactly an issue of a standard soulbound item being bound to a deleted character, it is an issue of a soulbound item that was given the ability to be converted to account bound and the soulbound version discontinued from being sold any longer, and your unconverted version being stuck before it could be converted. As you are unable to make this conversion, they should be able to convert your soulbound version into the account bound version manually. The reason they placed the conversion task on the Weapons Specialist NPC was due to there being thousands of these items needing to be converted and that would cause too much of a hangup in Support to do it all manually. It can be done manually, it was just not the ideal way to do the mass conversions.

Again, check with support and seek Gaile’s assistance in Account Issues. I’m sure this has come up before.

It has come up before. In that case, the deleted character’s items were not exchanged.

I do find it irksome that Anet released an infinite tool that was hailed as the last pick you’ll ever need. It can mine at every level. There literally was no better pick. All gathering tools had the same chance to gather the same pool of mats at all times (aside from BL tools). We had no reason to believe that things would change.

If they released a mining pick that had a chance to mine quartz, I’d be kittened. I worked to attain the meta reward of a quartz node in my home instance. But if I skipped that content I could buy a pick to get quartz.

Likewise, if people skip the current LS content and don’t get the meta reward (sprocket node in home instance) they can still just buy the pick with no effort expended and reap the benefits of gathering sprockets.

Trivializes the meta reward greatly.

To everyone trying to narrowly define ‘need’:
It is possible to need this new pick.
If you want to define ‘need’ as ‘absolutely necessary’, I’ll remind you: ascended is not necessary, exotic is not necessary, rares, greens, blues, even whites are not necessary, playing GW2 is not necessary, drinking water is not necessary.
yet all of those are needed because you need them for something.
In the case of this tool, you do need it to have best-in-class gear.

LOL, I would be mad too. Fortunately, I don’t buy cosmetics. The only thing I’ll buy from the Cash Shop are items with some significant functional value and even that is rare.

ILLSPAWN.5340:

I love the logic behind this post. I bought a 2013 Camaro and the 2014 Camaro is better so maybe I should ask for a refund because they sold me exactly what was stated, but never told me the 2014 would be better.

I love that logic, because you’d be free to trade your old 2013 Camaro to the dealer, or any other driver, and recuperate parts of the money.

If it was up to Anet, only you would ever be allowed to drive it, and you couldn’t sell it. So it’d be gathering dust in your garage, taking up space, forever.

Mystic.5934:

To everyone trying to narrowly define ‘need’:
It is possible to need this new pick.
If you want to define ‘need’ as ‘absolutely necessary’, I’ll remind you: ascended is not necessary, exotic is not necessary, rares, greens, blues, even whites are not necessary, playing GW2 is not necessary, drinking water is not necessary.
yet all of those are needed because you need them for something.
In the case of this tool, you do need it to have best-in-class gear.

I normally see at least one person make this type of argument when “need” and “want” are part of a discussion. The only issue with it is that it’s very weak and not very logical.