Guild Wars 2

This post is so you can all discuss whether or not you think that the level cap should be increased with the release of expansions.

The level cap is currently 80, and that is pretty high for the release of a game. With the release on an expansion, there would be another villain. As heroes, our story would extend to kill the next elder dragon. Anet can easily make more story missions without having to raise the level cap, and in my opinion, you shouldn’t have to do one part of the story, then wait 2 levels to do the next (Especially when an army is about to attack a base or city, the npcs say “Meet me there fast.” Then it takes a day or two for you to actually get there.). Here are pros and cons of increasing level cap.
My thoughts:
Pro’s
1) It would increase the amount of time it takes to progress your character (good or bad, depending on person.)
2) Would make the new content seem like it takes longer to get through, because you have to level to get to the next section of it.
3) The people who buy the game to level up, then quit until new content comes out would be coaxed to return.
4) Would allow new dungeons to be spread out
5) You would feel even stronger compared to lower level players.
6) Without higher level caps, there would eventually be too many level 80 zones, spreading out the playerbase too much, making it hard to find groups for events and such.
7) Without higher level cap, the low level content would seem very small compared to the high level content after a few expansions are released.
8) New crafting tiers, and materials would be made to fit new lvl cap.
9) People would make new alts.
10) Story would take longer than a single day to finish.

Cons:
1) Eventually, the level cap would get excessive. Having a level 110 character seems a bit much.
2) Stats on gear would have to be reworked, causing imbalance at first until it is fixed.
3) People would be forced to buy transmutation stones in order to keep the look of their lvl 80 set and still be effective.
4) Those who get max level quickly would have to wait for everyone to catch up to them to be able to group for the max level content.
5) Orr would be barren due to the lack of high level materials and events. And those who would want to see it wouldnt be able to because the forts are all under enemy control
6) There would be no new crafting tiers.
7) Your level 80 gear would become inferior until you get to the next lvl cap.
8) You would need to farm an entire new set of exotics to transmute your old armor set into.

Yes and if its lets say 100, then the difficulty to reach 100 should be VERY VERY HIGH.

The reason the endgame in gw2 is getting so much criticism is because ITS WAY TOO EASY to get to 80. It should takes months and months and months to reach max level

no because this would cause a gear treadmill which is precisely what Arenanet are against.

GW1 had the same stats on all max level armour right from Prophecies all the way to Eye of the North, it just added new flavours of stats you could use i.e new Runes/Insignia’s.

Increasing the level cap would be about the only thing that would make me quit the game. That, and gear grind, but the two go hand in hand.

No thanks. >.<

Don’t need artificial number inflations for more content. Don’t need to ’feel stronger’... compared to newbs. There are games for flexing the E-[censored].

I already make new alts, sooo... this is a pro how? And how would no new crafting tiers be a bad thing? Don’t need ’tiers’ to make more gear. They can introduce new recipes for new skins.

We don’t need more levels. Additional content for a variety of levels would be nicer.

Sin.8174:

No thanks. >.<

Don’t need ‘tiers’ to make more gear. They can introduce new recipes for new skins.

With new gear, they would probably need new mats instead of orichalcum for example. If there were 5 different level 80 ores for different recipes, it may get a bit overwhelming.

They would have to rework WvW (auto leveled to 80) and then re-balance it.

They need to do just like GW1.

Sin.8174:

No thanks. >.<

Don’t need artificial number inflations for more content. Don’t need to ‘feel stronger’… compared to newbs. There are games for flexing the E-[censored].

I already make new alts, sooo… this is a pro how? And how would no new crafting tiers be a bad thing? Don’t need ‘tiers’ to make more gear. They can introduce new recipes for new skins.

We don’t need more levels. Additional content for a variety of levels would be nicer.

How is the number inflation “artificial”? A level 80 sword is stronger and sharper than a level 70 sword, and along down it goes. You need more power to take on bigger and badder foes.

Level cap was 20 in GW1 before, during, and after all expansions.

The lvl 80 thing is there to placate the sandbox braggerts who didn’t want to brag to their WoW buddies about their awesome level 20.

There is no reason to increase levels other than bragging rights, it’s a PvP game.

I’d be against that. A huge problem I’ve had in other games is finally, finally hitting cap and getting at least decent end game gear, then a month later a new expansion comes out and everything I have is obsolete. Gear treadmills were why I would quit games forever – I got tired of chasing what I can’t catch.

What I’d be all for is outward building instead of upward building. As in, you don’t get more levels/higher stats/more powerful gear, you just get more content – new areas, more gear skins, that sort of thing.

Artificial in the illusion of ’being stronger’.. you know, the inflated ego boost that coems with constant grind?

I like GW2’s system. I prefer skins and other content that doesn’t concentrate on the constant need on ’keeping up with the jonses’.

Tired of games that constantly raise the cap every time they bring out new content. First game I ever played now has a cap of 175 levels... it’s excessive. 80 levels is more than fine.

Agemnon.4608:

Sin.8174:

No thanks. >.<

Don’t need artificial number inflations for more content. Don’t need to ‘feel stronger’… compared to newbs. There are games for flexing the E-[censored].

I already make new alts, sooo… this is a pro how? And how would no new crafting tiers be a bad thing? Don’t need ‘tiers’ to make more gear. They can introduce new recipes for new skins.

We don’t need more levels. Additional content for a variety of levels would be nicer.

How is the number inflation “artificial”? A level 80 sword is stronger and sharper than a level 70 sword, and along down it goes. You need more power to take on bigger and badder foes.

Well, the difference between a lvl 80 killing something with 1,000 HP versus a lvl 800 killing something with 10,000 HP is only a set of 0’s. It’s psychological, to some those set of 0’s (getting to lvl 800 from 80) is a big deal, but to others the only difference between the two, is that the lvl 800 sank more time in. He isn’t “stronger”, he just had more time to grind.

zallis.2138:

Pro’s
1) It would increase the amount of time it takes to progress your character (good or bad, depending on person.)
2) Would make the new content seem like it takes longer to get through, because you have to level to get to the next section of it.
3) The people who buy the game to level up, then quit until new content comes out would be coaxed to return.

These are all just time sinks, which we don’t need.

4) Would allow new dungeons to be spread out

Which can also be done if the level cap remains 80, so this point is irrelevant.

5) You would feel even stronger compared to lower level players.

I really don’t get that one.

6) Without higher level caps, there would eventually be too many level 80 zones, spreading out the playerbase too much, making it hard to find groups for events and such.

GW proved the opposite. Also events are currently way too crowed. Most of them can be done by 10 players, so if the other 20-40 leave to play in other zones it wouldn’t be that bad.

7) Without higher level cap, the low level content would seem very small compared to the high level content after a few expansions are released.

That’s true, but I honestly see no reason why the low level content shouldn’t seem small.

8) New crafting tiers, and materials would be made to fit new lvl cap.

Again, not a benefit of the new cap. New mats can also be included for lvl 80 and crafting lvl 400. Just as they did for the Halloween Event.

9) People would make new alts.

No they won’t, at least not just because they now can reach lvl 100 instead of lvl 80. People make new alts if there are new professions.

10) Story would take longer than a single day to finish.

True, but again this doesn’t require a higher level cap, the personal story can also be continued at lvl 80.

Cons:
1) Eventually, the level cap would get excessive. Having a level 110 character seems a bit much.

Why is the number that important? In the end it’s all about playtime and how fun it is to level up. I liked the leveling phase, but I don’t want to do it again since anything below a lvl 80 char in exotics is rather weak in World PvP.

2) Stats on gear would have to be reworked, causing imbalance at first until it is fixed.

If the use the same formula as they use now, there would be no problem.

3) People would be forced to buy transmutation stones in order to keep the look of their lvl 80 set and still be effective.

I wasn’t forced to but transmute stone to get the look I wanted at 80, they all dropped.

4) Those who get max level quickly would have to wait for everyone to catch up to them to be able to group for the max level content.

Here I completely agree.

5) Orr would be barren due to the lack of high level materials and events. And those who would want to see it wouldnt be able to because the forts are all under enemy control

I’m not sure about that, most events in Orr can be done with 10 players or less so it’s not that different compared to other zones, which are also not dominated by the NPCs.

6) There would be no new crafting tiers.

How is this an argument against increasing the level cap?

7) Your level 80 gear would become inferior until you get to the next lvl cap.

Yes, but since gear was totally irrelevant during the leveling phase it wouldn’t be a big problem.

8) You would need to farm an entire new set of exotics to transmute your old armor set into.

Which most people will do anyway if there is new content and therefor new designs. The level cap doesn’t change that.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the question whether we want an expansion to have time sinks in addition to new content or not. I don’t want time sinks, the just annoy me, so I don’t want a new level cap. And, if Arena Net hasn’t changed that much, there won’t be a new level cap. They don’t need one, as GW has already proven.

Yes. Of course.

Increase the level cap?

No.

I don’t want to spend time leveling, I want spend time doing more content. Increasing the level cap means they have to spend time they could be working on content on balancing PvE, PvP, and WvW. I find the high level cap annoying enough as is.

Definitely not… continuing with the lateral expansion motif, new classes/races, possibly new stat combinations on gear, new areas, etc.

I would probably quit as well as this is the reason why I quit WoW. The main thing I liked about GW1 and somewhat for 2 is that once you’ve got your stats, you can finally just enjoy the game. Anet needs to stay far away from the idea of making gear grinding and progression the “fun” element of the game. What needs to be fun is the content, and by that they need to change up the content…expand on it.

Katostrophe.3274:

Yes and if its lets say 100, then the difficulty to reach 100 should be VERY VERY HIGH.

The reason the endgame in gw2 is getting so much criticism is because ITS WAY TOO EASY to get to 80. It should takes months and months and months to reach max level

I threw up at this comment. There is no way I want this in Guild Wars 2.

why are we debating what will have to happen or do you rabid fanboys really thing that Anet would be foolish enough to make a whole expansion that 90% of theme park players will skip until they absolutely must because gift of exploration 2.0 demands 100% world completion again. Mind Gw2 would need to merits an expansion in 2 years, i’ll eat a live cat if it happens.

it is also important that Gw1 was a only able to get away with it because leveling didnt matter and it was infinitly more sandboxy than Gw2.

the whole point to increasing lvl caps is to make a clean slate when the gap to get gear to do content at max lvl gets to high. with same gear in pvp and no raid progression i dont see why it be necessary for a lvl increase.

Increasing the level cap would add nothing of value to the game.

No. Leveling in a game that scales this much already leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All levels do now is act as an content block. All i want is more skills.

Leveling only serves to arbitrarily lock content and create a sense of progression. Don’t need any more levels.

I don’t see a compelling reason to raise the level cap.

In contrast, the game I played most recently was Rift. After a few tiers of raids all at the same level, it is time for a level-cap increase there, because of the content being gated by gear-level. The basic idea of that is you have players who’re locked out of the current content because they don’t have enough of the gear from the preceding tier.

GW2 doesn’t have gating by gear, so there’s no good reason to change the level cap, unless they’re going to keep the lvl 80 gear the same all the way up to 90 or 100 or whatever.

It’ll be interesting to see if they can get the initial release working well enough for long enough that an expansion would be viable. I wonder what’s the timeline…

I would really hope that the level cap is NOT increased from 80. New added content should simply be added as lvl 80 content. Increasing the level cap is just going to increase leveling/gear treadmill, make the game less alt-friendly, and allow layers to out-level current endgame areas.

One of my favorite things about GW1 was the low level cap and how the majority of the game was end-game. The journey from 1-20 was really there to learn how to use your profession and progress the campaign.

Expansions should focus on more lvl 80 content, new utilities skills, new elite skills (these seem to really be lacking), and new weapons. A new race(s) would be nice too.

God no. It’s bad enough that they have levels in at all. Until I hit level 80 I was confined to only adventuring in areas that were intended for my level… which was awful.

There is no reason at all to increase level cap. Anet set the cap to 80 for a reason. If they were to change to cap, they would have to completely reformat the WvW/PvP systems. As well, they would have to set in a new system for trait points, completely changing people’s builds around to accommodate for these changes.
The only thing Anet has to do for expansions is new skills, new content and new skins. That’s essentially all they did for GW1 and I found that it worked perfectly.

level cap will never be increased.

the level 20 cap remained in guild wars 1 even until today.

I wouldn’t mind an expansion redesign to traits/trait lines, if done right it can make the game feel fresh.

i would rather have Anet not outdate everything they do at every chance they got like certain companies, i would rather see the level cap stay where it is and keep the item value while only adding new content, not redoing it

GW1 and FFXI had their games at a perfect place but FFXI lost it when they decided to increase the level cap from 75

@OP: It won’t make the game any better.

No
NO
No
NooOOoooOo
Quaggan doesn’t like high level cap.

It’s bad for all the reasons you listed under pro and level 80 is good for all the reasons you put under contra.

Sure add in new runes/skills and perhaps tie these to a new storyline and a separate progression track AoC style, but under no circumstances should the level cap be raised lest they alienate their entikittenget audience.

lol thats target entire flipped which has an insult lol (last two characters of entire and first three of target)

No, 80 is a really nice number

I’d rather have new content (and a new class!) than a higher level cap. It does absolutely nothing for me, ruins all my armors and weapons (hell even legendaries), and effectively ruins the lvl 80 content right now.

Why are you all arguing about something that already is clearly going to happen. In the mist they have rank vendors up to Rank 100, in the games coding their are higher level karma vendors. What is there to discuss, they will raise the level cap, it will make the treadmillers happy and will be easy enough to accommodate the theme parking explores the forum is full of. .

Anyone who says they will leave the game of this trivial issue is either exaggerating(most likely) or is some bratty kid who has a knee jerk reaction to everything. I am pretty sure Anet has some autonomy and they do what they will when they will. All that is up is us is how we choose to enjoy the game.

No cap increase. Maybe they can add other things to make characters stronger (ie: daoc’s master level). I think that would be nice.

Rank 100 and the option to implement vendors for lvl 100 players (or whatever) doesn’t meant that they will really make that mistake. It could also just mean that they orignally intended to use 100 instead of 80 as cap.

nachtnebel.9168:

Rank 100 and the option to implement vendors for lvl 100 players (or whatever) doesn’t meant that they will really make that mistake. It could also just mean that they orignally intended to use 100 instead of 80 as cap.

I dont think so, when you go to the rank 90 and 100 vendors they say that they will be used in the future. Furthermore why do you believe this is a huge mistake? Dungeons will still be scaled, pvp/wvwvw will still be scaled, leveling will still be really fast, getting top stat gear will still be fairly fast, so why does it matter. Some people like to level and it will make them happy, why would it ruin the game for you? We are talking another year or so as well.

LOL!

Another, “I wish GW2 was like X game, but I’m not going to play X game, I’m just going to complain and wish how GW2 was like X game, but I’m not going to play X game, I’m just going to complain and wish how GW2 was like X game, but I’m not going to play X game, I’m just going to complain and wish how GW2 was like X game, but I’m not going to play X game…”

A higher level cap makes leveling a twink (more) painful, that’s basically al it does in a game without the gear treadmill.

GW1 showed us that a MMO can have multiple expansion packs without increasing the level cap. So why should they change a winning concept?

No, in the original game the level cap was 20 and it worked. They released two full expansions and GWEN without ever raisin’ the cap an’ it worked just fine … people still played characters they’d maxed out in the first game through all the others. GW isn’ about levels, it’s about discovery an’ experiencing the story, the world. The expansions will probably add some new mechanics, which’ll be interestin’, and some new classes, new skills, new weapons maybe … but we don’ need any more levels.

Adding more levels means that they would have to mess with the total amount of trait points a player has; unless they reward the player something else per level. Having more than 70 total trait points will completely disrupt the entire idea of having specific builds. You’re not supposed to be able to have all of the traits filled out.

Also, I’ve always assumed that the sPvP level cap was just higher than the PvE cap. Why do the two have to have the same cap?

In my opinion, it seems unlikely that the cap will be raised. I prefer it this way.

ZeTuna.8074:

Adding more levels means that they would have to mess with the total amount of trait points a player has; unless they reward the player something else per level. Having more than 70 total trait points will completely disrupt the entire idea of having specific builds. You’re not supposed to be able to have all of the traits filled out.

I’ve always assumed that the sPvP level cap was just higher than the PvE cap. Why do the two have to have the same cap?

In my opinion, it seems unlikely that the cap will be raised. I prefer it this way.

They most likely will change the trait system( adding some removing others) when the expansion comes out, so more trait points wont necessarily ruin the specific builds. They are already have higher level karma vendors and rank vendors in the game, you can go see them now. I would say they likely will raise the cap, it just wont matter as much as it does in other games.

In WoW gear and stats have to be artificially inflated so that it is impossible to do the new content with previous gear and levels. This makes it so you have to do X before Y which means you must get A before you can get B to even unlock X. That is why you have 100k more health at 80 than at 85, and the gear is much higher in stats.

In GW2 you dont need that since there is no progressive content, just static player interest driven content open to everyone. Does it need more levels, seem like it doesnt. Will it have them, seems likely with the vendors already their and the attaction leveling has to some of their player base. As much as each side like to claim the other is the minority( which sheer volume of both kinds of posters would seem to disprove) so ppl like progression some dont. I bet Arena net will be smart and cater to both like they do now.

NO!
Leveling shouldn’t be what the games about. look at GW1 you get to max level about 10% into a content of the game and the rest of it is about enjoying what the game has to offer and using your skill to adapt to harder situations.

More lvs would throw traits out of balance and also cause legendaries to lose their point as no one would ever make the lv80 ones anymore they would just level past them

They probably will, but a part of me wishes that they don’t.

Just adding new Skills to spend points on would add some Progression without forcing people to get new exotics and transmute all the ones they loved.

Adding a new race with a very different storyline would also make many people play an alt just to experience new things.
(Largos please! …it’s going to be Tengu, though, isn’t it Anet?)

This question was asked a year ago and…

Colin: “Yeah. The level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game, and we absolutely would increase it further into the game, probably through expansions is the most likely place we would do that.”

Also, they’ll no longer be doing the Gw1 style expansions which were standalone (aka complete starter zones to level cap). It’s now horizontal at level cap and vertical progression in expansions.

It also doesn’t really matter if they increase the cap. You’re still going to be max level in SPvP, WvW has always be low vs high levels and you’ll be downscaled for all lower content like you already are.

Anyone who says they will leave the game of this trivial issue is either exaggerating(most likely) or is some bratty kid who has a knee jerk reaction to everything. I am pretty sure Anet has some autonomy and they do what they will when they will. All that is up is us is how we choose to enjoy the game.

Actually, I left several games because of this not-so-trivial issue and in the end always returned to Guild Wars 1. For me the cycle was as follows:
- guild wars 1
- new MMO I join with friends
- as a time limited player (I have a job, you know the thing your mother to buy your expansion pack) I can hardly do 50% of the content
- expansion pack comes out which destroys my not even half complete character
- go back to GW1

It happened in WoW. It happened in LotR. It happened in Aion. It will happen again if they raise the cap in GW2. The constant level cap was GW1’s killer feature for me.

Leveling cap should not increase. If it does, that leads to Carrot on a stick progression, verticle gear progression… Farm max stats and sets during this “tier”/“release”, wait for the next expansion, level up a few levels and then farm the next max stat set there. Its the same thing as any other game out there, the only difference is theres no raiding.

The cornerstone of this game’s endgame is horizontal gear progression, in that it is all cosmetic and the stats stay the same. If you increase stats, then who cares about cosmetics…its all about waiting it out until the next xpac. The only difference then would be that theres no raiding to test my “meddle” with my new max stats (and no Im not advocating that I want raiding, just making a point).

If Guild Wars 2 increased the level cap, thus increasing max stats, I quit on day one and I don’t look back. Ever. If I ever play another MMO again, it would be WoW because at least then when my current gear is useless due to an xpac or level increase, I can farm new gear for raiding purposes (which I do not want to do, but if there are no games that offer an alternative, that’s where Id be).

Ive seen two posts that merit concern: One that related to the mist vendors with 100 rank gear, and the quote of Colin, which I cannot maintain as entirely accurate unless the poster provides a link.

The idea of “horizontal at level cap, verticle at expansions” is the same thing as any other MMO. In WoW, you level to 90, get max stat gear. Great. New tier of raiding releases, and the stats increase. Or an expansion is released, and the stats increase. How is this any different than raising the stats per expansion? Again, the only REALLY different between other MMOs, for arguments sake WoW, and GW2 is that GW2 has no raiding. Its all about aesthetics. Making me level another 5 levels, just to re-gear my self stat wise, is carrot on a stick…they just spread it out more than tier’d raiding as other games do.

Again, Im out of here if that happens.
And no, Im not some bratty kid with a knee-jerk reaction. 28, married, with my own kid. I’ve just played enough MMOs to know where value lies in a game, and in GW2 it lies in the fact that theres no stat progression once you get your max stats. I’ve also noticed a few “exaggerations” on arenanet’s part, as well as half truths, to the point where it would make me question their sincerity when stating their plans for the game(whether good or bad). While I cannot get enough of the game, I have been disappointed by the half-truths that Ive come to realize way too many times in the two short month’s of the game’s release. I don’t think any other game has done that.

Increasing the caps is not the answer. Adding more challenging content and new items with adjusted skills or new stats is the answer. I don’t need my character to get to a higher level to feel stronger and I don’t need to add new skills to feel “elite” I just need to be challenged.