Guild Wars 2

Keadron.9570:

Not that anything even comes close to comparing to Ele Staff anyway.
Ele staff only does high damage if the target is standing there eating it, in which case they deserve it. Damage goes down a lot vs a moving target

I don’t think I said it was good on everything, but rather pointing out that if we’re talking “ranged damage”, nothing compares.
Hell, even CoR tends to miss some moving targets (particularly if they run perpendicular to you) and don’t even mention the terrain issues.

The current state of CoR is actually good/better for WvWvW and making that skill any better will push it back to extreme overpowered status.

Pirate ship is still the meta, but at least we don’t have ridiculous amount of damage from one skill alone. Any veteran WvWvW players that CoR + Cruel Repercussion trait can hit like a truck, even 19k+ crits against light/medium armor targets. Imagine multiple of them hitting same target = instant death at 1200 range from a skill which has mere 4 second cool down. Don’t let one skill dominate the meta so much. Revenants are still plenty in WvWvW.

I think CoR still needs a higher CD. 4 s is too little.

And Cruel Repercussion trait needs to be completely rethought! +50% damage increase from an adept trait is just too much. It is better than many GM traits in the game. That trait is pretty much guaranteed to trigger on 10 s cooldown, because WvWvW zerg fights have a lot of attacked negated.

I don’t want revenant nerfed to oblivion, but this hammer skill + trait must be brought back in line.

Thank you!

Malchior.5732:

So, no single skill should deal more than ~5k?
Well, assuming the balance is split between PvE and PvP, then sure. Although you would also need to drop the sustain and tanking potential considerably.
Otherwise, there are tons of skills that do way above 5k, of which, almost every class has access to.

Speaking of which, if we’re speaking about ranged damage, Revenant Hammer actually has pretty poor DPS. Not that anything even comes close to Ele Staff anyway. Although you said “damage-focused” ranged weapons, so even then, all Rev Hammer has is CoR spam. Ranger Longbow has more utility, better kiting, and still has decent damage. Considering that, why does Revenant Hammer have no kiting potential and a really bad CC? The only upside is the damage (I would gladly trade some of that damage for improvements on the other skills, but the DPS is still terrible).

I don’t see why there’d be a specific cut-off at 5K damage, but to be honest, that seems like a pretty decent number. And yes, this is of course from a WvW perspective.

Point being, no one should be getting one-shot by a single hit (I realize I didn’t specify that earlier, I thought it was implied). AoEs and channeled skills are entirely different because they’ll rarely connect for their full damage/leaves you plenty of room for counterplay.

Personally, I think Hammer (and indeed Herald in general) is quite poorly designed. My suggestions come entirely from a WvW perspective, I’ve made no attempt to hide that, and I’m simply offering a straightforward solution (i.e. avoiding a total rework) to what is currently one of the big issues plaguing the gamemode.
I believe that even if those nerfs were implemented, there’d still be room for hammer revenants in your general core WvW composition – whether that be as supplement to necro bombs or as part-time pick players.

vana.5467:

I don’t see why there’d be a specific cut-off at 5K damage, but to be honest, that seems like a pretty decent number. And yes, this is of course from a WvW perspective.

Because most hard-hitting skills already do ~8k (and apparently that’s too high). In fact, I rarely hit over that in WvW with Rev Hammer, let alone PvP.
I don’t even use Hammer in PvE unless I want to cleave pocket raptors.

Deniara Devious.3948:

The current state of CoR is actually good/better for WvWvW and making that skill any better will push it back to extreme overpowered status.

Again people are under the assumption for some reason that they wont take the time to tone down the skill.

It’s pretty obvious the damage co-efficient is a tad high, and the cooldown is laughably low. Expect this to change. However don’t expect your dying to it to change if all you do is stand still and eat damage, like a fat kid eats donuts.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Oeps Rolls Necro.2594:

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the Skills Team:

The current behavior was an unintended consequence introduced with the 1/26 build.

Hello Gaile,

Without being sarcastic i would like to let you know about another unintended consequence with the 1/26 patch.

Its the mesmer part of the update. Its pretty broken atm and its in a sad state in pvp.
It would be really nice if you can let us know if someone is looking into that part.

Thanks anyway!

Ps. i really loved your frog in gw1

There’s a lot of feedback to read, so please don’t mind if I ask this: Do you have specific areas of concern? Also, did you post in the major feedback thread? I don’t mind asking about this, if I’m able to do so. But a general “it’s broken” isn’t as good as solid evidence.

(And thanks. Froggie is doing well in Old Tyria, but I hope someday to travel with him in the Tyria of today.)

Good to hear that Froggie is doing well!

My main problem on mesmer in PVP atm that we dont have anything where shine in.

-I would really like to see more love to the interupt part of the mesmer.

Atm most interesting traits are really spread out between the trait lines.
There spread out between domination, duelling , chaos and chrono.
With the amount of condi’s flying around its almost mandetory to go into the inspiration line.
Moving them into 1 or 2 traitlines would really be helpfull.

-Mantra builds arent viable atm.
Shaving of some casting times and recharges would really be helpfull. In a fight no good player will allow a channeling of a mantra without bursting/ccing you.

-Burst mesmer, after the initial burst with GS and Sw torch (or shield) there isnt much left to do then wait again for the burst to recharge. Most classes are at full health before we can setup another burst. Gives us oure extra bounce back on gs 2 would be a step into the right direction.

Bunker mesmer, its a good thing that they got nerfed. I do think it got hammered too hard.
Removing soldier and cele, nerfing quickness , hitting alacrity and buffing necros boon removal through the roof was a little to much.

Utility skills:

1. Remove aegis from Precog, remove the cast time from it, increase the stab pulse to 2 stacks, add remove 2 conditions on pulse (Gives it some use in WvW & PvP. No real use in PvE). Reduce cooldown to 40 seconds.
2. Decrease timewarp’s cooldown to 90 seconds. There’s really no reason it’s still at 180. If you feel like a 50% reduction in cooldown is too much, reduce it to 120.
3. Reduce the cooldown of mirror images to a base of 35 seconds. It’s 2 clones & a stun break, it doesn’t deserve to be on a higher cooldown than a clone, stunbreak + stealth (decoy)
4. Reduce the cooldown of arcane thievery to 20 seconds, bringing it more in line with boon corrupt necros.
5. Reduce cast time on mantras by 3/4 a second, bringing it to 2 seconds to charge them.
6. Increase the damage mantra of pain does, but also increase its cooldown. That way it doesn’t break the mantra traits. Perhaps give it a good 700-800 damage base, but a cooldown of lets say 10 or so seconds before you can recharge it.
7. Increase base healing on mirror by 750.
8. Reduce cooldown on well of recall by 5 seconds.
9. Increase cooldown on Well of Calamity to 40 seconds, triple the pulse and double final pulse damage. Remove cripple and add slow. (This brings it into the same line that necro’s well of suffering exists on. Making it valuable in WvW, and something I might take in PvP to secure downs.)

(thanks TheOneWhoSighs.7513)

We got a lot of good skills and traits. They are only to spread out and some of the casting/channeling and recharges are too long now. We lack a lot of sustain, condi removal and overal damage. Nerfing alacrity tuned the mesmer really down and we got nothing back for it.

It would be really helpfull for most people if we know that the dev team is aware of those problems.

TLDR
I cant beat a scrapper/rev/dh/ranger/thief or necro on the same skill level in pvp. I dont want to be OP, i just want to have a fair chance to beat someone my skilllevel.

Thanks for your time Gaile!

DeceiverX.8361:

Kodiak.3281:

This is a great change.

One friendly player should not be able to negate the damage of another friendly player through bad (or good) timing.

For the players who are concerned about WvW, all I have to say is there are better ways to accomplish what you’re looking for rather than a bad solution that inadvertently does the job.

I completely agree. Fact of the matter is it’d come down to nerfing the coefficient by like 50%, though, which obviously people would get very upset about.

if they choose to go with that direction, Anet will need to revert quite a bit of the nerfs Rev received from the 1/26 patch.

How much damage does CoR doing in WvW right now?

Assuming the exact same stat and buffs as above, how much damage do high damage skills from other classes do?

Well i’m maining a revenant myself and i would love that team just fix all the glitches revenant still have 6 months after bwe3 (like you are fixing coalescence of ruin one). I’m even don’t talking about the terrible state revenant have (particularly the useless state of tanking legend and healer legend, being pigeonholed in regular power build Shiro/Glint. But this discussion is already in all topics on revenant’s forum.) But if at last the team can fix the bugs it’s would be a good thing done.
I mean, before nerfing to the ground something maybe it could be better to fix glitch (first priority) or making the all classe quite balanced (rework on traitline, on some utilities…) and only after come the numbers’ game.

Malchior.5732:

Because most hard-hitting skills already do ~8k (and apparently that’s too high). In fact, I rarely hit over that in WvW with Rev Hammer, let alone PvP.

They do indeed. And that’s a very recent trend. How often did you see 8K ranged hits from anything other than Lich Form pre-HoT? What about 8 months ago (before the June update)?
That is the development I’m arguing against, and I am definitely not alone in being thoroughly turned off by the current damage going around.

Ayrilana.1396:

How much damage does CoR doing in WvW right now?

Assuming the exact same stat and buffs as above, how much damage do high damage skills from other classes do?

This really depends on trait interactions

This Swift Termination + Cruel Reprecussion can hit for easily 20K.

The problem lies with Cruel Repercussions and the low cooldown. Without CR, you’re looking at a high end 8-10k even against squishy targets.

And Gaile if the mesmers still have your attention, just one more question:
Why haven’t the utility phantasm skills had a serious consideration to be buffed? by buffing, i merely mean reducing the cast-time of the phantasms, 1.5s is far too long for any phantasm skill that could just get killed in aoe or LOS immediately after casting! I love these skills, it’s just hard to use in a world full of hard cc and abundant blinds, especially when the skill could just be countered by a little indirect damage.

@ Mesmer

Wouldn’t it be good if we had those class forum specialists who could compile and summarize class issues for Gaile and the Devs to easily peruse XD

• There are many, many specific issues that could be raised with Mesmer (the general summary made was good), but it’d take an entire forum to cover it. In fact we already have, that way —-→ Mesmer Forum

vana.5467:

Malchior.5732:

Because most hard-hitting skills already do ~8k (and apparently that’s too high). In fact, I rarely hit over that in WvW with Rev Hammer, let alone PvP.

They do indeed. And that’s a very recent trend. How often did you see 8K ranged hits from anything other than Lich Form pre-HoT? What about 8 months ago (before the June update)?
That is the development I’m arguing against, and I am definitely not alone in being thoroughly turned off by the current damage going around.

After reading your post history… yeah you are all into destroying Revenants. Not caring for the other parts of the game. Lol hammer in PvP/PvE……..

Gaile Gray.6029:

Oeps Rolls Necro.2594:

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the Skills Team:

The current behavior was an unintended consequence introduced with the 1/26 build.

Hello Gaile,

Without being sarcastic i would like to let you know about another unintended consequence with the 1/26 patch.

Its the mesmer part of the update. Its pretty broken atm and its in a sad state in pvp.
It would be really nice if you can let us know if someone is looking into that part.

Thanks anyway!

Ps. i really loved your frog in gw1

There’s a lot of feedback to read, so please don’t mind if I ask this: Do you have specific areas of concern? Also, did you post in the major feedback thread? I don’t mind asking about this, if I’m able to do so. But a general “it’s broken” isn’t as good as solid evidence.

(And thanks. Froggie is doing well in Old Tyria, but I hope someday to travel with him in the Tyria of today.)

Gaile- Here’s my suggestion to the summaries offered.

TL; DR:
1. Keep alacrity at 33%
2. Improve mesmer DPS sustain
3. Reduce recharge and cast times on wells, since those were built around Chrono having more potent alacrity than they do now.
4. Change Well of Precognition to how it was during beta, making allies attacks hit through blocks. At least then it would have use on some skill bars.

Basically, alacrity is a very complicated mesmer mechanic, and any changes to it needs to be calculated very far down the line to make sure it isn’t over-powered, or completely useless. As those before me pointed out, the changes on the 26th did not do this. Mesmers are facing problems in PvP because bunker was the only thing chrono was good for. Mesmers are facing challenges in PvE right now because our very low DPS does not at all make up for our 33% alacrity support rate (in most instances). In my opinion, a proper balance to alacrity would be to buff up Mesmer in other areas like damage, so the 33% doesn’t seem like such a big nerf. That way, chrono bunker would not come back, alacrity would still seem like “a nice little extra thing”, and mesmer could still be viable as PvP shatter, or as a damage dealer in raids.

Also, the well recharge and cast times are pretty vestigial of a 66% Chrono. It’s just common sense to lower those now that wells are much less powerful. Well of Precognition was a very lazy nerf. I’m not sure how this could be fixed, but perhaps switch it back to it’s original-original function, to allow teammates to hit through blocks. Anet kind of dug its own grave on this one.

Gaile Gray.6029:

the major feedback thread

Where can I find this thread?
How is it called?
Major feedback thread?

Alex Shatter.7956:

TL; DR:
1. Keep alacrity at 33%
2. Improve mesmer DPS sustain
3. Reduce recharge and cast times on wells, since those were built around Chrono having more potent alacrity than they do now.
4. Change Well of Precognition to how it was during beta, making allies attacks hit through blocks. At least then it would have use on some skill bars.

2. Yes please, this has been needed for so long.
3. Not just wells. Another option is to make the trait improved Alacrity make alacrity 66% on the Mesmer.
4. The reason that was changed is because of how useless it was. The best thing to do with precog which would have left the skill useful, required less work and shut the pvp whiners up would be to make the skill an invuln in pvp and an evade in PvE. It baffles me that they went with this aegis stuff instead.

Also what Mesmer really needs is a high dps build in PvE that can compete with other classes and doesn’t require 30 mins of jumping through a million hoops to set up our phantasms and then be locked out of our shatters for the rest of the fight.

Infact just some consideration for PvE in general while you’re butchering classes for PvP would be nice.

Yashuoa.9527:

Gaile Gray.6029:

the major feedback thread

Where can I find this thread?
How is it called?
Major feedback thread?

Presumably this thread: January 26th Update: Your Feedback

vana.5467:

While I did enjoy the consequence of this “bug”, I will reluctantly admit that it wouldn’t have been a good way to nerf a skill. So kudos on the fix.

However, I would strongly urge you to have a thorough look at what Herald is doing to WvW in general.

edit:
To make this post just a little constructive, I’ll reiterate some of the suggestions I’ve made before regarding Herald and hammer:

1. Make the herald utilities share the facet instead of the boons, change facets to only apply boons to the target itself, and slightly reduce uptime.
Reason: stacking multiple revenants in one party allows for way too much boon uptime. By sharing the facets instead, two revs would be able to provide 2 different boons to the party but not double the amount of the same boon.
A revenant can currently pre-stack 25seconds of fury (40s with F2 active). That’s too much. They should be able to stack a bit for themselves using F2, but party-wide ticks of the facet should not overlap.
The same goes for might. Reduce the might from facet of strength so that the rev can keep up ~10 stack on himself and ~6-7 on the party.

2. Make Facet of Nature private and reduce the upkeep to -1. Once again, the potential for party-wide boon stacking is simply way too high right now.

3. Reduce Hammer Bolt damage modifier to 0.85, CoR to 1.25/1.5/1.75, Phase Smash to 1.5, and Drop the Hammer to 1.25. Reduce the casting time of Drop the Hammer to 1s to improve its utility function.

4. Rework Cruel Repercussion. It needs a completely different functionality.

5. Make barriers and lines (Line of Warding etc.) stop CoR. Given how the skill works and looks, making it reflectable would seem a bit odd. I propose a new mechanic where barrier skills simply stop its progression.

Honestly, I’m finding it really hard to come up with a good solution for the Herald utilities. Passive boon stacking is extremely difficult to balance because it will inevitably either be required or useless, depending on its strength (because skills will have to be balanced around it). The reductions I propose may seem dramatic. They are. The current ability of revenant parties to maintain full offensive boon stacks with no active effort or skill use is just beyond ridiculous.

It’s on you for running 2K armor , but 18K is insane. The numbers on the tooltip are not even close to that high w/ 2600 Power even with 220% critical and +30% because of 2000 armor. It should be roughly 8-9K.

I think that the CoR nerf was over the top as far as the 0.5 seconds procs. The recharge to 4 seconds combined with a nerf to cruel repercussions ( + 50% damage after block ) , roiling mists ( + 100% fury effectiveness), Ferocious aggression ( + 7% damage under Fury) , and all the Herald damage modifiers (Shared Empowerment , Elder’s Force) would be better.

Damage modifiers for base revenant:
——————————————————————————-
Invocation:
Ferocious Aggression + 7% damage under effects of Fury (trivial with herald) <—— priority
Cruel Repercussion + 50% damage on next attack when blocked <—- priority #1

Devastation:
Targeted Destruction + 7% vs vulnerable
Swift Termination + 20% vs <50% HP
Assassin’s Presence + 150 ferocity ( +10% critical damage)

Corruption:
Bolstered Anguish + 3% per condition on you

Damage modifiers for Herald:
————————————————————-
Shared Empowerment (might when applying boon … on 1 second cooldown)
Elder’s Force ( 2% damage per boon on you = + 6% easily from Fury + might+ swiftness)

Levetty.1279:

3. Not just wells. Another option is to make the trait improved Alacrity make alacrity 66% on the Mesmer.

I kind of like the idea of making alacrity 66% but for shorter duration. It would encourage multiple mesmers.

Levetty.1279:

4. The reason that was changed is because of how useless it was. The best thing to do with precog which would have left the skill useful, required less work and shut the pvp whiners up would be to make the skill an invuln in pvp and an evade in PvE. It baffles me that they went with this aegis stuff instead.

No. I don’t think mesmers should be given more defensive abilities. Well of Precog deserved to be nerfed and i dont think evade/invuln should come back. I like the idea of a “hit through enemy block” mechanic because it is offensive (which mesmer needs), very unique and very nichey. It would not be good on every build. It would shine in sPvp when people are all fighting on a little point and blocking their rocks off. Maybe it could use padding: “Player attacks cannot be blocked or evaded and remove a boon on hit. At the end, all players get stamina”. But it needs to not be a spammy defense skill.

Levetty.1279:

Infact just some consideration for PvE in general while you’re butchering classes for PvP would be nice.

My point exactly. Buffing shatter/power mes would wipe out dreary bunker builds and be good in pve and pvp. I pray these suggestions get to Karl before whiny sPvP FOTMs do, or else all we’ll get is more pvp based condition / burst garbage

Really enjoyable how all those glasscanon builds cry bcs CoR hits 14k+. With my def/atk hybrid on full ferocity i do not hit over 10k (WITH 50% dmg buff). Also, the Target number got fixed, now finally the CoRs per character gets fixed again so everyone can hit BUT you cant get doublehit anymore by a single CoR. So stop crying, I’ve met enough people in GvGs who got only 2-3k by my CoR, those were eles, necros and whatever which were NOT using glasscanon build but still strong ones. So please. Stop crying. With 4s the skill isnt spammable anymore by a single person, in duells its easily dodgeable bcs of the slow animation.
And btw: Put lines to avoid CoR? Are you kidding? The kitten skill gets interrupted by some gravel and you… gosh. Gimme that palm to bash my face in it.

I get that the CoR thing is a bug, but really, it’s made WvW a far better place. Yes sitting in the middle of a zerg and whacking people at 1200 range for enormous damage numbers every 4 seconds is a very relaxing way to play, but it’s also just perpetuating the horrible pirate ship meta. Anet need to clamp down on this sort of thing if they have any interest in making this game mode enjoyable and, more importantly, reputable in wider gaming circles.

Simonoly.4352:

I get that the CoR thing is a bug, but really, it’s made WvW a far better place. Yes sitting in the middle of a zerg and whacking people at 1200 range for enormous damage numbers every 4 seconds is a very relaxing way to play, but it’s also just perpetuating the horrible pirate ship meta. Anet need to clamp down on this sort of thing if they have any interest in making this game mode enjoyable and, more importantly, reputable in wider gaming circles.

Then change CoR to:
1. Not to be so spammable
2. Distribute the damage between the other skills
3. Change Cruel Repercussions because it’s way too punishing
4. Not be the sole reason to use Hammer (this includes making Phase Smash and Drop the Hammer moves that allow you to actually kite instead of sitting back at 1200 range and becoming useless once the gap is closed, this is why Hammer is so bad in PvP, and the DPS/Utility is too low for PvE)

This bug “fixes” the problem, but makes the skill completely broken. If a single other person is using the skill at the same time as you, you’re useless. That’s the opposite of what should happen in an MMO.

Exactly when they’re coming? You said you will modify the classes from 3 months or can I hope before? I would just not having the right to deceive?

Gee, it’s almost like split balancing for the different modes would be a good idea.

Photoloss.4817:

Gaile Gray.6029:

There’s a lot of feedback to read, so please don’t mind if I ask this: Do you have specific areas of concern? Also, did you post in the major feedback thread? I don’t mind asking about this, if I’m able to do so. But a general “it’s broken” isn’t as good as solid evidence.

I am not Oeps, but the general consensus on the mesmer side was that the “bunker” build was the only viable way to play pre patch. That was rightfully toned down, but mesmers were essentially given nothing in return. With the release of HoT the previously viable builds have fallen far behind the Elite Specialisations and what remains of the Chronomancer post-26th simply can’t keep up.

There is no real “specific area” of concern, it’s just that each individual change adds up to a horrifying total, essentially like you’re trying to kill the disease, the patient and the next of kin all in one go: You halve the effectiveness of Alacrity (which one must reasonably assume all Chronomancer cooldowns were balanced around, ignoring the group buff aspect), you remove Quickness affecting stomps/rezzing, you effectively remove Well of Precognition, you buff classes/builds which were previously known for hard-countering mesmers and you fail to provide any reasonable compensation to more offense-oriented mesmer builds which happened to rely on any of these aspects all at the same time!

Not even debating the validity of any of these changes individually it is clear most of them were focused on eliminating the chrono-bunker, so one has to question why they were not implemented one after another and only after the previous change had clearly failed to achieve its intended goal.

Then there is also the emotional aspect of being told there were many more changes than those outlined in the “preview”, then getting nothing any of the experienced players would consider a substantial improvement (this one explicitly is about emotions and personal opinions and actual hard data might state the opposite, but the players don’t have access to those)

For a more on-topic example relevant to WvW, look at the changes made to Confusion application via Glamours: this achieved much the same effect as CoR (killing huge numbers of players at long range with little to no warning), but it a) could still be counteracted to some extent, b) cost the mesmer almost their entire build to pull off and c) was more or less REMOVED FROM THE GAME as soon as it was “noted to be problematic”. Again mesmers were given nothing to play a similar role (albeit weaker) in WvW even until now. Revenants meanwhile can still use their ONE skill much like before, and less than a week after the patch some aspects of the change are being looked into as “unintended”. How long did it take for Temporal Curtain to get looked at again?

best comment i read in a long time! so true :/