Guild Wars 2

This may have been discussed before but I couldn’t find it in the top forum pages.
But what disturbs me alot is that the game absolutely do not reward skill what-so-ever.

If you want money, loot, rewards, whatever it is, you go to Frostgorge sound and mindlessly zerg for champions while you watch a movie or whatever and make your 8g/h + exotics and rares and stuff and then buy whatever you want.
It requires no skill at all and it’s the best way to get stuff in the game.

Compare it to explorable dungeons.
1 path of CoF takes like 10-15 mins and gives you 1 gold and a bit of this and that. That’s about 4-6g/h. I wouldn’t say CoF requires alot of skill, but definately more than zerging for champions.
Then we have Arah, which I would say would be the hardest dungeon in the game but I guess that’s subjective.
Path 4 I believe is the hardest and longest and it gives 3 gold for clearing it. If you don’t know how to run it, it will probably take hours to clear it. If you do know how to run it, it takes about 30 min according to my sources if you don’t fail anywhere. That would be 6g/h
That said, those paths are not repeatable while you can do Frostgorge all day long if you want. So Dungeons are inconsistent while Frostgorge is consistent.

Now compare to fractals, which is said to be an endgame dungeon.
A fractal run varies alot in time depending on what fractals you get, but I’d say a run takes 30-45 mins for levels up to 20-ish with a good party. The higher the level, the longer the time.
But in no fractal have I ever got more than 5 gold for a run and that’s when I get 2 exotics and a charged lodestone. I could be incredibly unlucky but I’ve run some 250 fractals. On average I probably get 2 gold per run.
So in the best case that’s 4g/h.

So the more skill you need to complete content, the less you are rewarded for it.
Frostgorge require no skill and you get 8g/h.
Fractals on high lvls require alot of skill and you get half of that at best.

Now I’m not saying that champion farming should be removed. Absolutely not. If people wants to mindlessly farm then go ahead.
But I do say that the reward should be balanced better with the skill required.
If I could get 8g/h for doing fractals or dungeons, I wouldn’t have to mindlessly zerg for champs and gradually destroy my brain more and more out of boredom.

That said I think that champ farming should be slightly nerfed and dungeons and fractals and other activities requiring skill should be buffed alot in reward. And should be as repeatable as champ farming is.

Now I know that fractals are getting an overhaul and I really hope that the rewards are part of that overhaul.

And if you go even more further and try to solo something you barely get anything, at all (if you try to sell dungeon path you probably get kicked anyway).

Everyone knows the skill to reward ratio in this game is completely screwed. To be fair in most MMOs time will always trump skill in terms of money making.

…or if you’re solo roaming in high tier WvW you get less than all of the above while it requires more skill.

Skill vs reward is non existent.

Demand “skill” of your players and see what happens. Hint: Killed Tequatl lately?

Arimahn.3568:

Demand “skill” of your players and see what happens. Hint: Killed Tequatl lately?

Teq doesn’t require player “skill”, it just requires logistics.

But living story?
But achievements?
I do not compute

leng jai.2961:

Arimahn.3568:

Demand “skill” of your players and see what happens. Hint: Killed Tequatl lately?

Teq doesn’t require player “skill”, it just requires logistics.

It requires an amount of effort that most players aren’t willing to make.

dun nerf champs.

buff the dungeons rewards.
buff fractals rewards.

then everyone is happy.

Arimahn.3568:

leng jai.2961:

Arimahn.3568:

Demand “skill” of your players and see what happens. Hint: Killed Tequatl lately?

Teq doesn’t require player “skill”, it just requires logistics.

It requires an amount of effort that most players aren’t willing to make.

Agreed, there comes a point where the amount of coordination and preparation required to best an encounter becomes simply too great for a video game. Karka Queen, Teq and TA Aether all cross that point for me.

I’m all for upping the rewards from the harder content but don’t see it changing much in the long run. The price of precursors would just get more expensive and the cost of gems would go up. Ultimately putting you right back where you started.

I don’t think buffing rewards is the right way to go. As you add more content, it’ll become harder and harder to perfectly balance them all.

What they need to do us give each part if the game unique rewards. I think Ascended materials, the new TA path and Tequatl if it wasn’t an implementational mess was in the right direction.

Arimahn.3568:

leng jai.2961:

Arimahn.3568:

Demand “skill” of your players and see what happens. Hint: Killed Tequatl lately?

Teq doesn’t require player “skill”, it just requires logistics.

It requires an amount of effort that most players aren’t willing to make.

I don’t really think it’s the co-ordination that turns people off Teq. It’s the absurdly numbing wait time, the skill lag, disconnects and bugs that have soured most people.

1. The only way you’ll be making anywhere near 8g an hour from champ farm is if you sell everything you get a hold of. (mats, lodestones, etc) Base gold is only around 2-3g an hour. Many open world players asked for a way to make gold in open world for a long time, and champ farming does that.

2. Dungeons are more rewarding than champ farming. They both give about the same base gold per an hour, + dungeons give you tokens which can be used to buy equips with exclusive skins to that dungeon, and sometimes very limited stat sets. None of these can be obtained through champ farming. Exotic weapons and soon armor with stats not found in a lot of places in game can be salvaged for a chance of an inscription that can be sold.

I’m not saying dungeons/fractals couldn’t use some more love, but champ farming does not need to be nerfed. forstgorge generally only gives 2-3 gold an hour, and anymore than that depends on how lucky you were, and what you decide to sell. Which is also keeping lodestone prices down atm, which is what a lot of people were asking for, and anet decided to knock out 2 birds with one stone and threw them in with champ boxes, and t6 would probably be higher than it is now without the added supply from champ farming.

Lambent.6375:

1. The only way you’ll be making anywhere near 8g an hour from champ farm is if you sell everything you get a hold of. (mats, lodestones, etc) Base gold is only around 2-3g an hour. Many open world players asked for a way to make gold in open world for a long time, and champ farming does that.

2. Dungeons are more rewarding than champ farming. They both give about the same base gold per an hour, + dungeons give you tokens which can be used to buy equips with exclusive skins to that dungeon, and sometimes very limited stat sets. None of these can be obtained through champ farming. Exotic weapons and soon armor with stats not found in a lot of places in game can be salvaged for a chance of an inscription that can be sold.

I’m not saying dungeons/fractals couldn’t use some more love, but champ farming does not need to be nerfed. forstgorge generally only gives 2-3 gold an hour, and anymore than that depends on how lucky you were, and what you decide to sell. Which is also keeping lodestone prices down atm, which is what a lot of people were asking for, and anet decided to knock out 2 birds with one stone and threw them in with champ boxes, and t6 would probably be higher than it is now without the added supply from champ farming.

How do fractals (especially 40+ levels) compare to champ farming?

Fractals probably have the worst time/skill/reward ratio of any PvE content especially when you get past level 30. The base gold you earn is pathetic and the quality of the drops range from decent to atrocious.

It’s mind boggling how they still haven’t changed the ways in which you get the skins too.

haviz.1340:

Lambent.6375:

1. The only way you’ll be making anywhere near 8g an hour from champ farm is if you sell everything you get a hold of. (mats, lodestones, etc) Base gold is only around 2-3g an hour. Many open world players asked for a way to make gold in open world for a long time, and champ farming does that.

2. Dungeons are more rewarding than champ farming. They both give about the same base gold per an hour, + dungeons give you tokens which can be used to buy equips with exclusive skins to that dungeon, and sometimes very limited stat sets. None of these can be obtained through champ farming. Exotic weapons and soon armor with stats not found in a lot of places in game can be salvaged for a chance of an inscription that can be sold.

I’m not saying dungeons/fractals couldn’t use some more love, but champ farming does not need to be nerfed. forstgorge generally only gives 2-3 gold an hour, and anymore than that depends on how lucky you were, and what you decide to sell. Which is also keeping lodestone prices down atm, which is what a lot of people were asking for, and anet decided to knock out 2 birds with one stone and threw them in with champ boxes, and t6 would probably be higher than it is now without the added supply from champ farming.

How do fractals (especially 40+ levels) compare to champ farming?

They don’t, that’s why I think they could use more love. In point to I was specifically talking about dungeons, not fractals.

and what’s so skillful about beating a dungeon you already beaten 100 times.

The current skill-reward ratio in GW2 is as if farming raptors/vaetirrs in GW1 would reward you double the amount of what 30min DoASCs would reward you.

And that’s just comparing it to normal dungeons. If we’d compare it to Fractals 40+, it would be as if every single raptor/vaetirr would drop a platinum.

There have been cries to fix this for a long time, but we keep getting lazy designs like the dungeon rewards (shameless reference to my own dungeon reward list) and pointless DR and alt-hate.

I know dungeons are more profitable than ever. But so is open world. And the skill-reward ratio should be on par with it. As long as mindlessly spamming your autoattack while running in a blob of equally mindless and incompetent individuals rewards you more than organized skillful play, there is an issue.

Because reward ratios like that breed incompetent players. Why bother getting better at the game when you can just mindlessly walk around spamming your autoattack, using any trash build you can come up with and you get rewarded just as much or more than the skillful players? Which is why GW2 has one of the worst playerbases ever in an MMO.

Stop rewarding bad play. Or at least reward it less than skilled play by a big enough margin to encourage said skill play.

leng jai.2961:

Everyone knows the skill to reward ratio in this game is completely screwed.

Nice example of this: Elementalist class – played now mostly by skilled ppl (because they are attracted to challenge and complex mechanics) and the reward?

More nerfs to the class, here you go

I feel that what’s making open world profitable at the moment is actually a huge exploit. I don’t think the devs intended for you to abuse spawn timers and set your Zerg up to farm champions in a specific order whilst hurling insults at players who disrupt that order.

The ideal solution would be to give DEs worthwhile rewards and make champs spawn with a random timer.

laokoko.7403:

and what’s so skillful about beating a dungeon you already beaten 100 times.

Use only autoattack while occasionally alt-tabbing and see how it goes.

STRanger.5120:

leng jai.2961:

Everyone knows the skill to reward ratio in this game is completely screwed.

Nice example of this: Elementalist class – played now mostly by skilled ppl (because they are attracted to challenge and complex mechanics) and the reward?

More nerfs to the class, here you go

Could you keep this crap out of this topic?

Bright.9160:

Because reward ratios like that breed incompetent players. Why bother getting better at the game when you can just mindlessly walk around spamming your autoattack, using any trash build you can come up with and you get rewarded just as much or more than the skillful players? Which is why GW2 has one of the worst playerbases ever in an MMO.

Stop rewarding bad play.

Quoted for truth.

Wethospu.6437:

Could you keep this crap out of this topic?

You can’t deny the truth, end of story…

Lambent.6375:

1. The only way you’ll be making anywhere near 8g an hour from champ farm is if you sell everything you get a hold of. (mats, lodestones, etc) Base gold is only around 2-3g an hour. Many open world players asked for a way to make gold in open world for a long time, and champ farming does that.

2. Dungeons are more rewarding than champ farming. They both give about the same base gold per an hour, + dungeons give you tokens which can be used to buy equips with exclusive skins to that dungeon, and sometimes very limited stat sets. None of these can be obtained through champ farming. Exotic weapons and soon armor with stats not found in a lot of places in game can be salvaged for a chance of an inscription that can be sold.

I’m not saying dungeons/fractals couldn’t use some more love, but champ farming does not need to be nerfed. forstgorge generally only gives 2-3 gold an hour, and anymore than that depends on how lucky you were, and what you decide to sell. Which is also keeping lodestone prices down atm, which is what a lot of people were asking for, and anet decided to knock out 2 birds with one stone and threw them in with champ boxes, and t6 would probably be higher than it is now without the added supply from champ farming.

I’m comparing the monetary equal of all the loot you get.
Nothing compares to mindlessly farming champs, that’s a fact, not fiction.
The actual money that comes out of the boxes might be the same as / less than the dungeons. But there is a ton of other stuff that comes out of it as well that doesn’t come out of dungeons in any comparable frequency.

I don’t care what type of reward (monetary or item) gets buffed or nerfed as long as the rewards do get balanced so that higher skill requirement gives higher reward.