Guild Wars 2

Forum bug, need to post

Aomine.5012:

Andred.1087:

I don’t see how the market-dictated price of silk is a problem to begin with. You might not like how much it costs, but that’s just the way it goes.

No it’s not, it’s Anet way of price manipulation way back 1.5 year ago.
They looked at the price of the silks back then and decide to make silk consumption way more than other ascended material. They manipulated the demand so much to try to “balance” the market. (Because silk was like 7 copper back then)

However they didn’t do enough research and overdid the effort to make silk’s price broken. If they broke the market, they should fix it by lowering down the material requirement to the level of other materials because there’s no longer any excess supply.
The market is already balanced, so they should revert this intentional consumption of silk.

My suggestion is make silk thread cost 50 silks to make. Also make Ascended Insignia cost one bolt of damask and one elonian leather to balance out the consumption of both silk and leather. (I know you’re going to say how about armorsmith? Easy, just make armorsmith able to craft elonian leather.)

It should not be a problem for Anet to manipulate the market because THEY ALREADY DID IT BACK THEN.

your solution in my opinion (not that i’m an economic expert) will have a much greater effect on the price of silk than you think it will , i’d expect it to drop way more than 50% probably be lucky to keep it above vender it will probably end up at elderwood and mithril prices 20-40c per

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Mithril is a different story, because it has a huge additional sink in crafting rare weapons for precursors.
If mithril would drop by only 10 copper, it would result in at least 50g off the final precursor price, so additional supply for mithril is sucked up for that.

Silk prices wont have such a safeguard.

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Mithril is a different story, because it has a huge additional sink in crafting rare weapons for precursors.
If mithril would drop by only 10 copper, it would result in at least 50g off the final precursor price, so additional supply for mithril is sucked up for that.

Silk prices wont have such a safeguard.

Depending on the requirement/limitations for the collection precursor system for HoT that safe guard could became void.

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Probably a silly question, but why is it important for silk not to crash, but okay for leather? What is the economic or game design purpose of the inflated demand of silk compared to leather?

Increase mithril ingot per mithrillium from 50 to 150
Increase elder wood plank per glob of spirit essence from 50 to 100
Increase thick leather section per elonian thread from 50 to 100

Introduce jeweler 500 to spike demand for mithrillium
Introduce more backpiece recipes that make use of elonian leather sections

Observe how far this makes the price of silk drop before tweaking further

Seera.5916:

I personally don’t think there is a problem with silk scrap prices. I don’t have a problem with the ascended recipes. I do have a problem with how much scrap is needed for 1 bolt when the other bolts and ingots and whatever the secondary tier is for leather only require 2 scraps/ore/etc.

Except they don’t. T5 leather, Cured Thick Leather Square requires 3 Sections. Steel and Iron Ingots need 3 Iron Ore. So it’s not just silk that need 3 to refine.

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Aomine.5012:

Andred.1087:

I don’t see how the market-dictated price of silk is a problem to begin with. You might not like how much it costs, but that’s just the way it goes.

No it’s not, it’s Anet way of price manipulation way back 1.5 year ago.
They looked at the price of the silks back then and decide to make silk consumption way more than other ascended material. They manipulated the demand so much to try to “balance” the market. (Because silk was like 7 copper back then)

However they didn’t do enough research and overdid the effort to make silk’s price broken. If they broke the market, they should fix it by lowering down the material requirement to the level of other materials because there’s no longer any excess supply.
The market is already balanced, so they should revert this intentional consumption of silk.

My suggestion is make silk thread cost 50 silks to make. Also make Ascended Insignia cost one bolt of damask and one elonian leather to balance out the consumption of both silk and leather. (I know you’re going to say how about armorsmith? Easy, just make armorsmith able to craft elonian leather.)

It should not be a problem for Anet to manipulate the market because THEY ALREADY DID IT BACK THEN.

your solution in my opinion (not that i’m an economic expert) will have a much greater effect on the price of silk than you think it will , i’d expect it to drop way more than 50% probably be lucky to keep it above vender it will probably end up at elderwood and mithril prices 20-40c per

And what is so bad about that? That’s the price it should be.
Not the manipulated price Anet imposed on us by over consuming silk.
This will also help raise the demand of leather so it’d be on par to Ore and Wood.
Mithril ore, Elder Wood are also around that price.
Then all materials are finally balanced, instead of having silk dominating everything.

Why try to exploit the armors crafting more than weapons?

Aomine.5012:

tfcgeneralkmk.9508:

Aomine.5012:

Andred.1087:

I don’t see how the market-dictated price of silk is a problem to begin with. You might not like how much it costs, but that’s just the way it goes.

No it’s not, it’s Anet way of price manipulation way back 1.5 year ago.
They looked at the price of the silks back then and decide to make silk consumption way more than other ascended material. They manipulated the demand so much to try to “balance” the market. (Because silk was like 7 copper back then)

However they didn’t do enough research and overdid the effort to make silk’s price broken. If they broke the market, they should fix it by lowering down the material requirement to the level of other materials because there’s no longer any excess supply.
The market is already balanced, so they should revert this intentional consumption of silk.

My suggestion is make silk thread cost 50 silks to make. Also make Ascended Insignia cost one bolt of damask and one elonian leather to balance out the consumption of both silk and leather. (I know you’re going to say how about armorsmith? Easy, just make armorsmith able to craft elonian leather.)

It should not be a problem for Anet to manipulate the market because THEY ALREADY DID IT BACK THEN.

your solution in my opinion (not that i’m an economic expert) will have a much greater effect on the price of silk than you think it will , i’d expect it to drop way more than 50% probably be lucky to keep it above vender it will probably end up at elderwood and mithril prices 20-40c per

And what is so bad about that? That’s the price it should be.
Not the manipulated price Anet imposed on us by over consuming silk.
Mithril ore, Elder Wood are also around that price.
Why try to exploit the armors crafting more than weapons?

well i was trying to think of solutions that would fit the mold John Smith seemed to dictate in his posts in the other thread that the price of silk shouldn’t change or change much

Bran.7425:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Mithril is a different story, because it has a huge additional sink in crafting rare weapons for precursors.
If mithril would drop by only 10 copper, it would result in at least 50g off the final precursor price, so additional supply for mithril is sucked up for that.

Silk prices wont have such a safeguard.

Depending on the requirement/limitations for the collection precursor system for HoT that safe guard could became void.

Not sure, if you checked the precursor market lately, but prices are going up again and supply is depleting.
Just like silk, wintersday also pumped out alot of t5 mats for precursor crafting (snowflakes), which basically added alot of new pres to the market.

I forged 7 precursors during wintersday for an average of 450g and made good profit.
But that supply and the announcement of HoT made their prices fall. Personally, i stopped forging pres about 4 weeks ago because it wasnt worht the time investment anymore and I think alot of others did as well.
Most pres have 50% less supply now on the tp and prices are rising again despite everybody knowing that there will be new acquisition methods for old pres and the new ones wont be forgeable.

Aomine.5012:

Andred.1087:

I don’t see how the market-dictated price of silk is a problem to begin with. You might not like how much it costs, but that’s just the way it goes.

No it’s not, it’s Anet way of price manipulation way back 1.5 year ago.
They looked at the price of the silks back then and decide to make silk consumption way more than other ascended material. They manipulated the demand so much to try to “balance” the market. (Because silk was like 7 copper back then)

However they didn’t do enough research and overdid the effort to make silk’s price broken. If they broke the market, they should fix it by lowering down the material requirement to the level of other materials because there’s no longer any excess supply.
The market is already balanced, so they should revert this intentional consumption of silk.

My suggestion is make silk thread cost 50 silks to make. Also make Ascended Insignia cost one bolt of damask and one elonian leather to balance out the consumption of both silk and leather. (I know you’re going to say how about armorsmith? Easy, just make armorsmith able to craft elonian leather.)

It should not be a problem for Anet to manipulate the market because THEY ALREADY DID IT BACK THEN.

But they did that before Damask or ascended mats hit. You are suggesting altering a known recipe that’s been crafted a lot by a lot of players who will now be … upset, that the price has dropped. Before when silk bolts were changed from 2 to 3, the impact was non-existent. Ooo, we went from needing 12 silk scraps to craft a rare light chest to 18. As you said silk was at vendor +1c so literally the difference in price was less than 1s on an item that required three T5 fine mats in the insignia creation. It affected nothing.

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Mithril is a different story, because it has a huge additional sink in crafting rare weapons for precursors.
If mithril would drop by only 10 copper, it would result in at least 50g off the final precursor price, so additional supply for mithril is sucked up for that.

Silk prices wont have such a safeguard.

lets say it takes 2-3 hours to get 300 silk without intent or 300:2.5 or 120 silk per hour.
then there should be a method that gives you more silk per hour, with intent
lets say 300 silk per hour.
now, you say, then people will oversupply silk!
keep in mind, people will only use the 300 silk per hour method, and sell it, if the value is worth an hour of their time, or they thorughly enjoy getting and selling silk.

so lets look at it. let say people can get silk for 300 per hour, if silk was 2 silver, that would still only be 6 gold per hour.
grinders make more than that right now. If the price drops to 1 silver (well above vendor, and not bad relative to other crafts) then they would be making 3 gold an hour, which is a pretty crappy rate of return

so they stop doing it that way.

you dont have to fear a direct method of obtaining silk, because people will only bring silk from that method to market, if they feel they are getting paid well for their time. As far as silk going down in value for the randomly generated types, due to less demand, yes it will go down in value, up to the point where people feel 300 silk in an hour would be worth to gather for themselves.

See, with a direct method, people will actually be paying the value that they think silk/time is worth, rather a value that is more disconnected.

it works, trust me, how do you think soft wood still has value, while not being useful for mystic forging, because even though there is a direct method that gives greater amounts, people are willing to pay other people to do the task.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Probably a silly question, but why is it important for silk not to crash, but okay for leather? What is the economic or game design purpose of the inflated demand of silk compared to leather?

Leather didn’t crash, it didn’t take off when silk and other cloth prices did simply because the demand that ascended crafting created simply wasn’t enough in affect the supply rate in any meaningful way.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Mithril is a different story, because it has a huge additional sink in crafting rare weapons for precursors.
If mithril would drop by only 10 copper, it would result in at least 50g off the final precursor price, so additional supply for mithril is sucked up for that.

Silk prices wont have such a safeguard.

lets say it takes 2-3 hours to get 300 silk without intent or 300:2.5 or 120 silk per hour.
then there should be a method that gives you more silk per hour, with intent
lets say 300 silk per hour.
now, you say, then people will oversupply silk!
keep in mind, people will only use the 300 silk per hour method, and sell it, if the value is worth an hour of their time, or they thorughly enjoy getting and selling silk.

so lets look at it. let say people can get silk for 300 per hour, if silk was 2 silver, that would still only be 6 gold per hour.
grinders make more than that right now. If the price drops to 1 silver (well above vendor, and not bad relative to other crafts) then they would be making 3 gold an hour, which is a pretty crappy rate of return

so they stop doing it that way.

you dont have to fear a direct method of obtaining silk, because people will only bring silk from that method to market, if they feel they are getting paid well for their time. As far as silk going down in value for the randomly generated types, due to less demand, yes it will go down in value, up to the point where people feel 300 silk in an hour would be worth to gather for themselves.

See, with a direct method, people will actually be paying the value that they think silk/time is worth, rather a value that is more disconnected.

it works, trust me, how do you think soft wood still has value, while not being useful for mystic forging, because even though there is a direct method that gives greater amounts, people are willing to pay other people to do the task.

yep i feel like this or improving salvage rates is the only to help people perceived problem without completely crashing silk

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Probably a silly question, but why is it important for silk not to crash, but okay for leather? What is the economic or game design purpose of the inflated demand of silk compared to leather?

Its not okay for leather to be at vendor value. I dont think I ever said that.

I just tried to illustrate the mayor differences in demand for the 3 mats.

Most people obtain more mithril than they need for they daily consumption and sell it on the tp to precursor forgers.
Most people also obtain more leather than they need but nobody is buying that access because there is no additional sink.
With silk, basically everybody is only able to obtain half of their daily demand themselves but not everybody crafts his daily bolt of damask. So one half of the player base buys 150 scraps each from the other half and all daily supply is used up every day.
If everybody can farm his own silk every day in a timely fashion, the supply from players that dont need it atm, will just be dumped on the tp until it reaches vendor value.

Behellagh.1468:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Probably a silly question, but why is it important for silk not to crash, but okay for leather? What is the economic or game design purpose of the inflated demand of silk compared to leather?

Leather didn’t crash, it didn’t take off when silk and other cloth prices did simply because the demand that ascended crafting created simply wasn’t enough in affect the supply rate in any meaningful way.

Yes, of course, but why? What was the economic purpose of inflating silk demand compared to leather?

Behellagh.1468:

Aomine.5012:

Andred.1087:

I don’t see how the market-dictated price of silk is a problem to begin with. You might not like how much it costs, but that’s just the way it goes.

No it’s not, it’s Anet way of price manipulation way back 1.5 year ago.
They looked at the price of the silks back then and decide to make silk consumption way more than other ascended material. They manipulated the demand so much to try to “balance” the market. (Because silk was like 7 copper back then)

However they didn’t do enough research and overdid the effort to make silk’s price broken. If they broke the market, they should fix it by lowering down the material requirement to the level of other materials because there’s no longer any excess supply.
The market is already balanced, so they should revert this intentional consumption of silk.

My suggestion is make silk thread cost 50 silks to make. Also make Ascended Insignia cost one bolt of damask and one elonian leather to balance out the consumption of both silk and leather. (I know you’re going to say how about armorsmith? Easy, just make armorsmith able to craft elonian leather.)

It should not be a problem for Anet to manipulate the market because THEY ALREADY DID IT BACK THEN.

But they did that before Damask or ascended mats hit. You are suggesting altering a known recipe that’s been crafted a lot by a lot of players who will now be … upset, that the price has dropped. Before when silk bolts were changed from 2 to 3, the impact was non-existent. Ooo, we went from needing 12 silk scraps to craft a rare light chest to 18. As you said silk was at vendor +1c so literally the difference in price was less than 1s on an item that required three T5 fine mats in the insignia creation. It affected nothing.

Upsetting people who suffered a bad system before is not a good reason not to progress.

Gas should stay at 4 dollars a gallon, because i bought gas for that price last year?
or
I bought my 20 miles per gallon SUV 2 years ago, so they should not make the 2016 version a 40 mpg SUV, not to upset me?

it makes no sense to me.

How many players got upset over losing the original light flamekiss skin? ANet went ahead simply because it had more blowback from cribbing Human T3 than taking it away from those quick enough to buy it.

Wanze.8410:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Probably a silly question, but why is it important for silk not to crash, but okay for leather? What is the economic or game design purpose of the inflated demand of silk compared to leather?

Its not okay for leather to be at vendor value. I dont think I ever said that.

I just tried to illustrate the mayor differences in demand for the 3 mats.

Most people obtain more mithril than they need for they daily consumption and sell it on the tp to precursor forgers.
Most people also obtain more leather than they need but nobody is buying that access because there is no additional sink.
With silk, basically everybody is only able to obtain half of their daily demand themselves but not everybody crafts his daily bolt of damask. So one half of the player base buys 150 scraps each from the other half and all daily supply is used up every day.
If everybody can farm his own silk every day in a timely fashion, the supply from players that dont need it atm, will just be dumped on the tp until it reaches vendor value.

it will only go down until it reaches the point that it is not worth it to get it yourself.
Most people will not go get it themselves if people offer them a better value than they feel getting it themselves is worth. That is way above vendor.
The key here is the method has to require intent, and time investment.

It should be more effecient than doing it unintentionally by a large margin. Unintentional pays in many ways, experience (which will get more valuable with masteries) karma, gold, other drops of value.

Behellagh.1468:

How many players got upset over losing the original light flamekiss skin? ANet went ahead simply because it had more blowback from cribbing Human T3 than taking it away from those quick enough to buy it.

The flamekiss issue was more of a political issue, not really a game balance thing
flamekiss wasnt really an improvement on any system either

Wanze.8410:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Probably a silly question, but why is it important for silk not to crash, but okay for leather? What is the economic or game design purpose of the inflated demand of silk compared to leather?

Its not okay for leather to be at vendor value. I dont think I ever said that.

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to attribute that to you. I was just trying to focus on the actual problem. Would anybody really see silk prices as very much out of line if the other similar materials required for crafting ascended armor were priced similarly? I am just trying to understand why ANet has those demands set so differently. Is there an economic or game design purpose? If so, it is not apparent to me. It can’t be something like trying to discourage people from playing light armor classes or more specifically discouraging people who play light armor classes from buying ascended armor. It also seems unlikely that there is still some huge amount of silk supply out there that they are trying to burn through. If so, then the situation with leather has to be much, much worse.

phys.7689:

The flamekiss issue was more of a political issue, not really a game balance thing
flamekiss wasnt really an improvement on any system either

That is still an odd part as originally you could transmute to get other races skins, and if fact there are still a few NPC’s that have cultural gear skins not for their race.

Back on the topic at hand what would the remove of leather from the various bag loot table (and place cloth in some/all of its place) to the leather situation (as now you can just go out) and kill creatures that drop hide on a fairly regular basis to get leather.

MithranArkanere.8957:

One or more of these:

1. Add some sort of limited guaranteed daily source of cloth like, for example:
   • Cloth nodes you can gather with the sickle (its uses would be increased to 150):
     • Jute plants for jute.
     • Roaming thick-furred rams and dolyaks for wool (they’ll appear neutral and ignored by enemies, you get close to them and ‘use’ them like nodes, and the player chases them with the sickle shearing them waving the sickle with the same animation as using the Magnanimous Choir Bell, that’ll be hilarious).
     • Cotton plants for cotton
     • Flax for linen.
     • Worm cocoons for silk.
     • Spider cocoons for gossamer.
   • Bonus chests dropped by certain events.
   • Some object that spawns after certain events like with toxic spores.
   • Daily stocks on certain vendors that can be bought once a day for karma. E.g.: A daily pagage for each type of cloth from the clothier’s shop containing 15-20 of that type of cloth, shared by all clothiers; daily small stacks of 5-25 from certain Karma vendors in orr; daily packages of cloth in certain amounts for the collectable tokens on Silverwastes and Dry Top’s shops, a daily stack of 15-25 from the Southsun vendors you can buy with coin + karka shells, a daily stack from coin vendors that spawn after events scattered all over the world (so there’s a reason to check their inventories other than some crappy low level gear or a hardly useful consumable)
2. Make a intermediate ‘blank insignia’ like the intermediate dowel for inscriptions, crafted with either all 3 armor basic materials. Or maybe have a different intermediate blank insignia based on the discipline, so an armorer would make insignia out of metal, a leatherworker out of leather and a tailor out of cloth. Once crafted, they’ll be usable by either discipline like now, though. So a Berserker insignia made with the armorer’s metal blank insignia would be usable by a tailor.
3. Make intermediate armor materials for Armorsmith use leather instead cloth.
4. Increase the changes of getting either basic material (and sometimes both) from salvaged gear, so instead always getting 1-3 leather from a leather aror, you could get 1-3 leather, 1-2 cloth, and if you are lucky enough, both 1-3 leather and 1-2 cloth.

In general, what it seems that would work is creating paths that would allow shifting some of the cost from cloth to other materials, and adding more intentional dedicated sources for cloth.

So if one of the paths has too much resistance, players can go for another path, which will balance and even out things on its own.

These are good ideas. I don’t mind going out to farm for what I need and these would add a nice variation. Also let us salvage the equipment we cannot sell or currently salvage so at least we would get something out of the item vs just destroying it if we do not need it. I would also like to see other items we need to craft having some alternate ways of gathering. For example fishing to get scales – the more difficult to fish for the better quality of scales you can get.

I really like the image of chasing a dolyak or ram to farm it as a node, that gave me a good chuckle.

Behellagh.1468:

Aomine.5012:

Andred.1087:

I don’t see how the market-dictated price of silk is a problem to begin with. You might not like how much it costs, but that’s just the way it goes.

No it’s not, it’s Anet way of price manipulation way back 1.5 year ago.
They looked at the price of the silks back then and decide to make silk consumption way more than other ascended material. They manipulated the demand so much to try to “balance” the market. (Because silk was like 7 copper back then)

However they didn’t do enough research and overdid the effort to make silk’s price broken. If they broke the market, they should fix it by lowering down the material requirement to the level of other materials because there’s no longer any excess supply.
The market is already balanced, so they should revert this intentional consumption of silk.

My suggestion is make silk thread cost 50 silks to make. Also make Ascended Insignia cost one bolt of damask and one elonian leather to balance out the consumption of both silk and leather. (I know you’re going to say how about armorsmith? Easy, just make armorsmith able to craft elonian leather.)

It should not be a problem for Anet to manipulate the market because THEY ALREADY DID IT BACK THEN.

But they did that before Damask or ascended mats hit. You are suggesting altering a known recipe that’s been crafted a lot by a lot of players who will now be … upset, that the price has dropped. Before when silk bolts were changed from 2 to 3, the impact was non-existent. Ooo, we went from needing 12 silk scraps to craft a rare light chest to 18. As you said silk was at vendor +1c so literally the difference in price was less than 1s on an item that required three T5 fine mats in the insignia creation. It affected nothing.

So those people who didn’t stack silk back then are not upset about the ascended crafting inflating the old price of materials so much? Anet already kittened so many people up to “fix” the balance issue of material cost.

So why not do it again to revert the harm? Yes, it will kitten up people who already spent money on it, but in the long run it benefits more people because those “victims” will spend less to craft in the future too.

This is just a “fairness bias” that people have. Because they already spent more than others previously, they do not want to have lower cost for future crafting too to justify their original effort. To be honest, “fairness bias” is just an irrational thought of the human, to make themselves and other people suffer the same that they originally had suffered so “that is only fair!”. In truth it benefits no-one. For future benefit, I’d rather Anet lower the consumption of silk.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Basically any solution, that enables the average player to obtain his daily silk demand on his own, without having to buy from the tp, will most certainly crash the silk prices because the silk that people get who dont need it (as a byproduct of playing), wont have a demand anymore.
Thats the status quo of leather right now.

Mithril is a different story, because it has a huge additional sink in crafting rare weapons for precursors.
If mithril would drop by only 10 copper, it would result in at least 50g off the final precursor price, so additional supply for mithril is sucked up for that.

Silk prices wont have such a safeguard.

lets say it takes 2-3 hours to get 300 silk without intent or 300:2.5 or 120 silk per hour.
then there should be a method that gives you more silk per hour, with intent
lets say 300 silk per hour.
now, you say, then people will oversupply silk!
keep in mind, people will only use the 300 silk per hour method, and sell it, if the value is worth an hour of their time, or they thorughly enjoy getting and selling silk.

so lets look at it. let say people can get silk for 300 per hour, if silk was 2 silver, that would still only be 6 gold per hour.
grinders make more than that right now. If the price drops to 1 silver (well above vendor, and not bad relative to other crafts) then they would be making 3 gold an hour, which is a pretty crappy rate of return

so they stop doing it that way.

you dont have to fear a direct method of obtaining silk, because people will only bring silk from that method to market, if they feel they are getting paid well for their time. As far as silk going down in value for the randomly generated types, due to less demand, yes it will go down in value, up to the point where people feel 300 silk in an hour would be worth to gather for themselves.

See, with a direct method, people will actually be paying the value that they think silk/time is worth, rather a value that is more disconnected.

it works, trust me, how do you think soft wood still has value, while not being useful for mystic forging, because even though there is a direct method that gives greater amounts, people are willing to pay other people to do the task.

But thats already in place. People know what 300 scraps cost every day and they know the average amount of gold they make, while they play or farm and they know the average amount of silk they get per day for which content.

If silk, other t5 and 6 mats, ectos and other map specific loot from SW keep dropping in value, they will eventually migrate somewhere else to farm until silk goes up again.

The current price of Damask is the price people are willing to pay, its as simple as that.

Granted, your suggestion might not crash silk to vendor value (depends too much on how much new players will come in in the next months) and it might even fiddle out between leather and mithril, probably a price point you would like to see.

But the question is: Does Anet want that as well? JS stated several times that for now, its working as intended and he doesnt feel like anything is screwed up.

I dont know you interpret this question from him:

John Smith.4610:

Let me ask a question, if you could farm silk specifically, but slowly, so the price remained what it currently is or higher, would that be better or worse?

But for me its a clear indication, that they dont want the silk price to go down any further.

And even, if they wanted to, they got better ways to do it. Why would they risk, silk going down to 50c in a couple of days and then see, how it pans out?

From October to January, they reduced the price of silk by 50c every month and 200k supply was added every month to the tp, by adding permanent content (SW) and seasonal festivals. For me, that looks like a safer way to go about it, if I wanted to reduce the price.

In the end, I am indifferent to the price of silk, as long as it doesnt go back to vendor value. I didnt care much, when it went down during season 2 and I dont care that it goes up again now. I dont think I ever traded in silk (for profit), like all other fools, i bought gossamer instead of silk, before asc armor went live.

I think, most people that complain about the high price of ascended crafting complain about it because it eats up the better part of their daily earnings, when they craft it. Earnings, that they rather spend to buy gems.

Here’s some random numbers from doing SW events, Breach and VW only, no node useage. I think this will be an eye opener as to why the supply of Silk does not need to be adjusted. These are from salvage only(no node gathering) and with comparison to Mithril and Elder Logs. These numbers are from opening 50 Heirloom Seed Pouches and salvaging what ever came out of them:

• Silk – 101 pcs
• Elder Logs – 49 pcs
• Mithril – 27 pcs

I can and probably will get the same or more from opening another 50 Seed pouches as well as Embroidered Coin Purses…and that’s with having 1000 storage capacity, not even max, of both raw and refined materials full. I already have enough of each refined to fully fill up a max storage at 1500 each if I wanted to increase my capacity to that amount.

P.S. – All salvaging is done on my medium armor Ranger, so the point of using a lilght armor to salvage is moot. All Light armors I salvage give me Silk or Gossamer(if I get a cloth from them) and anywhere from 1 – 3 pcs.

Sizer.5632:

The solution to silk prices is to build a time machine and go back to the launch of the game, and hire someone to oversee the economy so massive fluctuations in prices don’t happen (like when silk went from a few copper up to 2s when ascended armor came out). Seems like most games have someone in a position like that, no idea why we don’t.

Seems you’re out of the loop, pal, that would be John Smith, and he’s been around since before day 1.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

What was the economic purpose of inflating silk demand compared to leather?

If you haven’t noticed, the Dev’s like to dangle a carrot in front of each player. They do this to entice and encourage us to spend money. Once we’re hooked onto the carrot, whatever shiny it may be, they allow us to roughly have 80% to 90% of the materials and processes to obtain it easily. It’s in that last 10% to 20% where they hope we’ll decide to take the short cut of buying gems and converting to gold. There’s also the time gating involved in that last 10% to 20% that keeps us playing longer. Thus, if you wonder why there always seems to be that one thing or couple of things preventing you from getting what you want, it’s designed to be that way. Silk is one of those items in the 10% to 20% when it comes to obtaining Ascended Armor. For the volume of Silk required, I wouldn’t be surprised if the volume and velocity of silk trading makes it one of the larger gold sinks in game. This would be something for Wanze to figure out. Which items on the TP are the largest gold sinks.

/tiredrambling

William Bradley Knight.2609:

I was just trying to focus on the actual problem.

1. Would anybody really see silk prices as very much out of line if the other similar materials required for crafting ascended armor were priced similarly?

2.I am just trying to understand why ANet has those demands set so differently. Is there an economic or game design purpose? If so, it is not apparent to me.

Very interesting point and a +1 from me for actually trying to focus on the problem, whatever it might be.

Also 2 excellent questions, here is what i think:

1. You caught me off guard on this one as I actually havent thought about that.
I think, if Anet could manage to balance elonian/deldrimor/damask, so that each armor set costs the same, they would definately do that. For that to happen, they basically must all have the same value. Now is the question which value it should be. As I mentioned in my prior post, I believe Anet is quite content with the amount of time, gold and effort that goes into crafting your ascended gear, so the average value should stay the same. Right now, buying one each on the tp accumulates to 19.9g, makes and average of 6.63g.
We adjust the recipes that each set requires 42 of any of them and we end up with the following costs:

42 t7 refined mats: ~280g
t6 dust: ~20g
vendor costs for spools, reagents, recipes etc: ~30g
6 exo insignias: ~20g

MAkes 350g, plus all the account bound boggins, for a set, regardless of weight class.
If Anet could manage that, I would be all for it and I dont think anybody with disagree with it. Some people might still be unhappy with the high price point but its better than the status quo because it balances the costs for every class.

2. For a long time, i thought that they screwed up with leather, not changing the demand or the recipe more, like they did with silk. But maybe they handled both mats differently on purpose, to see, how it pans out in mid-term (~1year) and make more long-term adjustments when HoT releases. I certainly would like to use some leather, while crafting my glider.
One economic obstacle i see in this is the mithril price. In our scenario, deldrimor would rise in value by about 75%, from 4,2g to 6,6g (which would mean that an ascended weapon would cost 10-20g more now). That rise in value shouldnt be done on mithril, though, because it would have a huge impact on precursor prices. So the added value has to come from iron and platinum. Its a good example how this mess cant really be solved with only balancing silk, mithril and thick leather but also requires lower tier mats to be rebalanced.
But I am positive that we will see some big changes for all three mat types, when HoT releases. If not through gameplay changes after release, at least the speculation hype train will go choo choo prior to it.

In all honesty, Silk is ridiculously easy to get. I’m selling a stack of them nearly every day (usually every 2 days). The price is driven up by people who aren’t willing to do a little grinding and just buy it off the TP. People like me drive the price up by continually offering higher prices for the people who are willing to pay :P

Reverence.6915:

In all honesty, Silk is ridiculously easy to get. I’m selling a stack of them nearly every day (usually every 2 days). The price is driven up by people who aren’t willing to do a little grinding and just buy it off the TP. People like me drive the price up by continually offering higher prices for the people who are willing to pay :P

your selling a stack every two days

now if you actually needed them

you would need 1.2 stacks a day, for a month.

you are getting less than half of what you would need per day to craft ascended in a month time frame.

as opposed to mithril, where you only need 100, and can get 1 per minute.
so 100 minutes(actually can get more but lets say your lazy/unkowing) versus 2 days.