For me Hardcore are the players that want to do a second job ingame and casual are more those players that just want to play for fun and more to relax.
So there could be hardcores that only play 1-2 hours, but always want to have that “big challenge” and always say that everything is to easy and should be 100 times harder .. and there could be casuals that maybe play 10+ hours, but are happy with how the content is and just enjoy exploring, gathering and maybe kill some world bosses the “easy way”.
Oh yes, when I play, I tend to focus on what I want to do. It’s called “maximizing what you can do with your time”. But – don’t misinterpret – I know with my current playstyle, Legendaries and Ascended are lightyears away. Do you see me QQ on that? No. Do I want them? Ofcourse!
Why the ritual? It’s the method I find the quickest, easiest and probably as little effort as I can give to gain gold. Simple. I want gold.
Now, my point being, as I stated over and over again, most people claiming to be casuals are really hardcore players who have little time to play or too lazy to do content or those who feel they are entitled to get the BiS whenever they want, however they want..
It’s really sickening – they call themselves casual yet they compete with others and QQ if others have more time and is getting ahead of them. And instead of either accepting it or finding a way to gain equal footing, they QQ. Time gate here, grind there, farm here, job there. I mean, seriously? Did anyone see a serious/popular MMORPG where we can get everything we want in little time? Getting things requires effort and patience and time.
Don’t get me wrong, casuals should strive to compete – but realize their limits.
PS:
Yes, I have 0 achievement on SAB. Also in Liadri before. I don’t find them interesting. I want to interact with humongous amount of people killing stuff. :p
PSS:
If running CoF1 and getting ori nodes most of the time is not casual – I don’t want to hear your definition of hardcore. lol
You repeat the same precise activities every day, and you think that is normal casual behaviour.
That is pretty much the end of the argument.
As for “sickening”, your use of that term completely betrays you. No casual player would find that sort of thing “sickening”.
Only someone who regarded the game as a job, or a race to be won, could use that term. Only someone who hated other players for wanting to be successful, could use that term.
In short – only someone who treated what is supposed to be a fun game as a deadly serious competition could. Which is precisely the problem. You are seriously angry and upset that other people want to have more fun and be more successful.
You also make a serious factual error – you suggest people can just “find ways to catch up”. Nope. That is the entire problem here. Time-gating. People aren’t just using that term for no reason. Time-gating STOPS you from catching up. If you can’t/won’t accept that, then you are not discussing the reality of the game.
You say, too, in other games hard work allows people to catch up. Did you even read my posts? That’s precisely my point. In WoW and other games, the lack of/lesser time-gating means you can catch up easily. You can gear up easily. Sure, you will need to do it again in three months, but it’s pretty easy to do.
Whereas here, theoretically, gear is forever – but that means advantages in gearing are too. No catch up mechanism means once someone is ahead, they are ahead forever.
Since this is the only even remotely interesting topic in this section…
2000 hrs played and I have not completed personal story, not gotten 100% map, not gotten dungeon master, have not done spvp for ten months, not done fractal higher than 10, have crafted cooking to 400 on one character and not touched any other crafts, have not done any of the extra content except for the Mad King and a few Teq attempts. Bring on the Mad King! Imo there is plenty for casuals to do. What I have done is run all the dungeons except arah a bunch of times and worked towards 8 geared 80’s without using crafting, 1 and 1/2 80’s to go.
Then there is three people I play with who play only about two hours a week. If that is not casual I dont know what is. They love the game and never complain about it. They are just not like me they have other interests and hobbies that they also enjoy.
take from that what you will
6 geared 80’s without anything but fractals < 11, and dungeons… Holy cow! that must have taken you forever! That is like… what? like 660 laurels, and what, 600 Globs of Ectoplasm? That is insane dude.
It’s actually physically impossible. You cannot have more than 360 Laurels by today. Even with the reduced PvP prices, someone claiming full Ascended trinkets on more than 3 characters without Fractals 10+ is straight-up lying. I don’t think he’s claiming that, but what he means by “geared” is unclear. Could mean greens for all we know.
2000 hours played is also extremely hardcore – that’s an average of 5 hours a day. Realistically, with some days off, etc. it’s more like 6+. At 5+ hours day on GW2, you can either have a job or any kind of social life at all, but not both. It’s kind of terrifying (I have played games like that before, so I know of what I speak).
I consider myself a casual player. This is the first MMO I ever played, and honestly it is the only video game I play (my husband got me into it). I definitely don’t have a problem with them making hard content, and I agree with many “serious” players that it is important to have content for everyone. What I hate as a casual player though is the mentality that comes along with the speed of release for new content. I take the time to play every day, but some days I don’t have time to do more than get my dailies. Because the new content is released so often and goes away quickly, I think people get an aggressive mentality that you need to fall in line with their play style or get out.
That said, this isn’t a new problem. I don’t participate in dungeons because I have had several players get mean when I didn’t know what was going on without bothering to explain what I should do. I am great at listening to experienced players, and many casual players would welcome instruction that is given nicely. The problem is that some players get very angry and many won’t even bother to help casual players. That is why I don’t like having all of this very hard content in PvE. PvE is where casual players are, and it is frustrating when people are angry with you all the time just because you didn’t spend hours learning content that won’t even be around very long and they won’t give a simple instruction that would empower you to participate.
For Tequatl, just a simple, “Stack over there, and please let someone experienced man the turrets” would make me happy.
Whenever this comes up, I just think to myself that there has never been an MMO that is easier to play at your convenience than GW2.
Whenever this comes up, I just think to myself that there has never been an MMO that is easier to play at your convenience than GW2.
This. i took a break from 4 months over the summer and when i came back i felt like i literally missed nothing.
First off, you can’t really have a debate about ‘casuals’ since you haven’t actually defined what you’d consider the definition of ‘casual’. Given how everyone seems to have their own opinions on what it means, not everyone is necessarily on the same page.
Now, if we’re talking about ‘casual’ in terms of time one can invest in the game, I’d be under that category (to the point where I can’t log in everyday).
I don’t feel I’m locked out of any content. I do WvW just fine in my Exotics. I run Fractals up to level 10. I do dungeons with level appropriate characters and don’t have much in the way of problems.
I don’t feel anything is particularly ‘hard’ to get either, just time-consuming.
Oh yes, when I play, I tend to focus on what I want to do. It’s called “maximizing what you can do with your time”. But – don’t misinterpret – I know with my current playstyle, Legendaries and Ascended are lightyears away. Do you see me QQ on that? No. Do I want them? Ofcourse!
Why the ritual? It’s the method I find the quickest, easiest and probably as little effort as I can give to gain gold. Simple. I want gold.
Now, my point being, as I stated over and over again, most people claiming to be casuals are really hardcore players who have little time to play or too lazy to do content or those who feel they are entitled to get the BiS whenever they want, however they want..
It’s really sickening – they call themselves casual yet they compete with others and QQ if others have more time and is getting ahead of them. And instead of either accepting it or finding a way to gain equal footing, they QQ. Time gate here, grind there, farm here, job there. I mean, seriously? Did anyone see a serious/popular MMORPG where we can get everything we want in little time? Getting things requires effort and patience and time.
Don’t get me wrong, casuals should strive to compete – but realize their limits.
PS:
Yes, I have 0 achievement on SAB. Also in Liadri before. I don’t find them interesting. I want to interact with humongous amount of people killing stuff. :p
PSS:
If running CoF1 and getting ori nodes most of the time is not casual – I don’t want to hear your definition of hardcore. lol
You repeat the same precise activities every day, and you think that is normal casual behaviour.
That is pretty much the end of the argument.
As for “sickening”, your use of that term completely betrays you. No casual player would find that sort of thing “sickening”.
Only someone who regarded the game as a job, or a race to be won, could use that term. Only someone who hated other players for wanting to be successful, could use that term.
In short – only someone who treated what is supposed to be a fun game as a deadly serious competition could. Which is precisely the problem. You are seriously angry and upset that other people want to have more fun and be more successful.
You also make a serious factual error – you suggest people can just “find ways to catch up”. Nope. That is the entire problem here. Time-gating. People aren’t just using that term for no reason. Time-gating STOPS you from catching up. If you can’t/won’t accept that, then you are not discussing the reality of the game.
You say, too, in other games hard work allows people to catch up. Did you even read my posts? That’s precisely my point. In WoW and other games, the lack of/lesser time-gating means you can catch up easily. You can gear up easily. Sure, you will need to do it again in three months, but it’s pretty easy to do.
Whereas here, theoretically, gear is forever – but that means advantages in gearing are too. No catch up mechanism means once someone is ahead, they are ahead forever.
*In WoW and other games, the lack of/lesser time-gating means you can catch up easily. *
Time gating is for casuals. I don’t approve of it too, but it has become beneficial (atleast to me and some friends). We can “catch up” with those players who can play 12 hours/day. It slows them down, it speeds us up. How?
Let’s take dailies as an example. Imagine giving Laurels more than once per day as long as you play – those 12 hour hardcores could get 30 of them in, say, 2 days. While us, who can only play very little – would probably take 1 week.
Now, each one can only get 1 per day – regardless of the effort you exert. Hardcores can get the items, casuals can get the items by just playing 20 minutes in the game. If casuals miss a day – no biggie – 1 missed laurel isn’t the end.
In WoW, you miss a kitten day of playing – chances are, you’re already far behind those who can. In order to catch-up – you need to make double efforts the next time you play.
“You repeat the same precise activities every day, and you think that is normal casual behaviour.”
-That’s how I play. The thing is – I don’t QQ because it’s hard to get BiS/Legendary – because I know I put in little effort/spent a little time. Another thing is, I don’t care whether I can play or not. One can’t argue that this is not a casual behaviour.
As I stated over and over – casuals are relaxed. It’s not that they don’t care – but they realize that if they can’t spend more time playing – then it’ll take longer to reach the top.
Being casual isn’t about the tasks you do in game- it’s about your attitude towards the game. If you are forcing yourself to get BiS, (then QQ if it takes too kitten long) – you’re hardcore. Nothing wrong with it (except the QQ part).
Since this is the only even remotely interesting topic in this section…
2000 hrs played and I have not completed personal story, not gotten 100% map, not gotten dungeon master, have not done spvp for ten months, not done fractal higher than 10, have crafted cooking to 400 on one character and not touched any other crafts, have not done any of the extra content except for the Mad King and a few Teq attempts. Bring on the Mad King! Imo there is plenty for casuals to do. What I have done is run all the dungeons except arah a bunch of times and worked towards 8 geared 80’s without using crafting, 1 and 1/2 80’s to go.
Then there is three people I play with who play only about two hours a week. If that is not casual I dont know what is. They love the game and never complain about it. They are just not like me they have other interests and hobbies that they also enjoy.
take from that what you will
6 geared 80’s without anything but fractals < 11, and dungeons… Holy cow! that must have taken you forever! That is like… what? like 660 laurels, and what, 600 Globs of Ectoplasm? That is insane dude.
It’s actually physically impossible. You cannot have more than 360 Laurels by today. Even with the reduced PvP prices, someone claiming full Ascended trinkets on more than 3 characters without Fractals 10+ is straight-up lying. I don’t think he’s claiming that, but what he means by “geared” is unclear. Could mean greens for all we know.
ring = 2*25 laurels + badges
amulet = 30 laurels
earring = 12 commendations
for 3 characters that implies 36 commendations and 240 laurels. Not impossible.
Don’t forget you get a ton of laurels with achievements too and triforce amulets don’t cost laurels.
2000 hours played is also extremely hardcore – that’s an average of 5 hours a day. Realistically, with some days off, etc. it’s more like 6+. At 5+ hours day on GW2, you can either have a job or any kind of social life at all, but not both. It’s kind of terrifying (I have played games like that before, so I know of what I speak).
Indeed. It’s terrifying. I’ve been there too.
Whenever this comes up, I just think to myself that there has never been an MMO that is easier to play at your convenience than GW2.
Hasn’t there? There have been quite a few which are about equal – various F2P offerings with non-hostile models, largely. Star Trek Online springs immediately to mind. I’d actually say that was considerably more casual-friendly than GW2.
If you’re talking strictly fantasy RPGs, perhaps (as Cryptic’s NW is certainly no more casual-friendly than GW2, and I think it’s confusing reward structure may make it less so).
There are also issues over what one considers more convenient – is it easier to have narrow, pre-selected specs with limited choices and gear that is extremely obvious and straightforward, like, WoW, for example, or is the freedom offered by GW2 more convenient?
I think there’s an open question, too, as to whether “convenient” necessarily has a 1:1 relationship with a game really being friendly to time-limited players.
The whole problem is that the terms “casual” and “hardcore” are basically worthless. As illustrated by this thread, the “dictionary definitions” only cover about 10% of players each, which means you have most players as “undefined”, when they are actually the most interesting group.
Still, no question GW2 is a fun and easy game to play, on a basic level, nor that you are hard-excluded from much content.
Whenever this comes up, I just think to myself that there has never been an MMO that is easier to play at your convenience than GW2.
It almost sounds like that’s a bad thing.
If you can’t play a game at your convenience, it’s not a game.
I play a lot of hours each day, but only doing casual PvE content. I play to have fun, not to be frustrated and certainly not to rely on others to get things done. I am able to camp out for hours to make sure I get in the main zone but now that I have finished the Tequatl achievements, I will never do it again. I only return to that zone to farm logs and ore.
And to find a “casual vs hardcore” debate here is a bad sign. It is why I left that other MMO.
There isn’t anything BUT casual content in this game. Come on people, seriously.
First off, you can’t really have a debate about ‘casuals’ since you haven’t actually defined what you’d consider the definition of ‘casual’. Given how everyone seems to have their own opinions on what it means, not everyone is necessarily on the same page.
This is exactly right an no one ever will be . Everyone defines it differently so the debate is an impossibility
@Eurhetemec:
I am just now able to come back and read your response to make a coherent reply. I understand your position, and I respect it, however, I must disagree.
Nowhere in my original post did I say that everyone was divided into either category. Casual, by Merriam-Webster’s definition is simple more laid-back and relaxed in their play style than a hard-core player. I am sure there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who are somewhere in the middle, being somewhat less intense than a hardcore player, but more dedicated than a casual player in some respects.
The 3 things you listed in your original post are things that you think are issues for casuals. I don’t see them as much of a problem.
1. Time-gated items: By definition, a true casual doesn’t care. Why would I have to have those time-gated items if, as you said, I would only truly need them if I were a high-level Fractals diver? I, personally will never have any of those items… AND I don’t care.
2. Zerker Gear: I don’t think I have a single set of zerker gear… Yes, I may have a piece or two here and there, but my play style is different. Zerker gear is not the only viable set. I do fine with what I have. Thank you for worrying about me anyways.
3. The Living Story: This is a topic that has been discussed to death, so I won’t go into detail about whether it is a good thing or a bad thing. I will only address it as it pertains to casual play. I would rather see an event where half the server is participating because it’s a limited time offer than to sit around spamming “LFG” because everyone is either hanging out in town or off doing those much more lucrative dungeon runs. I would rather take a chance on an Overflow server than be guaranteed not to be able to complete something because there’s nobody around to do it. Just a personal observation.
You see, I am not trying to make an argument as to whether any specific person is either hardcore or casual. All I am trying to do is say that I think there is plenty of content for both ends of the scale, and everyone in between. It’s not anyone’s fault that there is a vocal minority that can’t have what they want when they want it.
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