Guild Wars 2

Let’s consider the relative similarity and intelligence of the following statements:

“Mass Berserker Gear is the best call because the threat of death is minimized when your enemies are killed quicker!”

“You should always speed when you drive! If you’re on the road for less time, that’s less time for you to get into an accident!”

Thoughts?

The difference between the two is there is no real consequence for wearing Berserker gear. ;D That is, unless Anet decides to make the rule, “You die in the game, you die for real.”

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

The difference between the two is there is no real consequence for wearing Berserker gear. ;D That is, unless Anet decides to make the rule, “You die in the game, you die for real.”

Increasing repair costs considerably would also discourage Berserker gear in all but the most confident of players, but that’s hardly good design – one should never have to grind to pay for their grinding.

I personally find that Berserker’s gear is overrated, but useful. It’s best suited to characters with high bases, such as Warriors, or classes with naturally high defensive mechanisms – such as the offtanks provided by Mesmer illusions. I dislike having Berserker Thieves or Eles in my dungeon group 9 times out of 10 because most of them just don’t play well enough to make up for their squishyness.

Not even close. There is no reason to wear anything OTHER than Berserker or equivalent condition sets. Almost all survival in high-end content comes from dodging, blinds, projectile absorption/reflection, blocks and other methods not related in any way to your natural defences. There is not enough risk to warrant giving yourself a pointless safety net.

I have to admit, I thought I was going to read your post and dismiss you as one more person who thinks his POV is important enough to warrant a new thread instead of a reply to an existing thread on this topic, but I lold at your analogy so you get a pass. Have a nice night.

What the heck is your point, exactly?

I don’t eat mushrooms IRL in order to grow to double my height, busting apart brickwork with my own head.

I don’t go to Iraq, shoot a bunch of people, get shot 20 times in return, then duck behind a wall and be perfectly fine 10 seconds later.

I don’t kill thousands upon thousands of boars until any sword in my hand becomes a weapon of mass destruction.

The rules of the game determine the logic. They are the physics of their virtual realms.

Well if you want to run some of the most competitive PVE highways and endgame turnpikes, you’re going to have to face the fact that currently, full speeder’s set lends more to the group with a skilled driver.

Casualist.1052:

“You should always speed when you drive! If you’re on the road for less time, that’s less time for you to get into an accident!”

If I could respawn in real life I would agree with you.

But I think the reality is it is true, berserker in many situation is the best armor set.

Casualist.1052:

Well if you want to run some of the most competitive PVE highways and endgame turnpikes, you’re going to have to face the fact that currently, full speeder’s set lends more to the group with a skilled driver.

Only because groups – and, unfortunately a lot of game mechanics – put too much emphasis on damage as the standard for contribution. Boons, healing, etc. don’t receive enough credit in the loot system, boss design, and player mindsets. I’d still prefer to have a well played P/V/T Ele over a Berserker Warrior in my dungeon group any day of the week.

DPS has a lot of incidental healing, too. If you kill an enemy that a downed player has tagged, you rally them, restoring a significant chunk of health and removing all pre-downed conditions. If you DPS all the enemies down, you end combat, causing people to regenerate as fast as a Call of Duty player.

If you don’t want pure DPS, you need to have attrition mechanics. Look at Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, with its stuff like healing surges. If there were unlimited healing surges, no one would play anything but a ranger.

Auesis.7301:

Not even close. There is no reason to wear anything OTHER than Berserker or equivalent condition sets. Almost all survival in high-end content comes from dodging, blinds, projectile absorption/reflection, blocks and other methods not related in any way to your natural defences. There is not enough risk to warrant giving yourself a pointless safety net.

This is the best I have ever heard this worded EVER.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Casualist.1052:

Well if you want to run some of the most competitive PVE highways and endgame turnpikes, you’re going to have to face the fact that currently, full speeder’s set lends more to the group with a skilled driver.

Only because groups – and, unfortunately a lot of game mechanics – put too much emphasis on damage as the standard for contribution. Boons, healing, etc. don’t receive enough credit in the loot system, boss design, and player mindsets. I’d still prefer to have a well played P/V/T Ele over a Berserker Warrior in my dungeon group any day of the week.

A berzerker guardian provies almost as much support as one with +healing, same with the ele.

It’s not to say that you can’t have support utilities, or even support traits.

But I can’t think of a reason you would ever wan’t healing.

i’ll try to explain..

I use an ele and i’m focused on D/D (you don t see many of them in dungeons
When i started this game i was wearing mostly a combination of knight and soldier stuff.

Then i started to go in dungeon…and in fotm…

Lets see a warrior hits for 16.000, a mage with lava font hits for 11.000 a tick before you can even notice.

But that would be acceptable if only battles werent usually 8VS5 and many get focused…

Underwater you get focused for up to 50.000 dmg in 1 second.

Now You see that toughness and vitality becomes quiite useless…You need just enough to survive 1 hit t roll away.

So slowly the more i played dungeons and fotms, i started to replace my equipment with berserker, just keeping few PVT trinkets.

Its quite clear that the only way to tank is using those 3 seconds invulnerability skills/walls and kiting while the party dps everything it can so when those few seconds of tankiness go on CD you have already cleared most mobs and can focus on crowd control.

Your only chance of success is to burst everything you can before going on cooldown with your best skills or you are dead.

Then there are also zerker warriors….that can kill stuff in 5 seconds alone….(the difference is quite ridiculous with other classes to the point that i laugh every time i read the word balance in other game modes) but that is another story…..

Well, I guess for people doing very high level fractals, this may be true. What percentage of the playerbase is that, though? That’s the question.

I think that in most dungeons, being more survivable helps me, because I don’t LIVE in dungeons. I run the occasionally for fun. I’ll miss tells because I don’t see bosses enough enough to learn them. Because I’m colorblind, in some dungeons I can’t always see red circles on the ground. So yeah, toughness and vitality helps me some.

I think it depends on your play style and what you do in the game.

(Sounds like DPS meter rogues. /shrug )

If it works for you, fine.

My guild and I won’t use it. We are 4-manning explorables and fractals. We have a mix of gear and (custom tailored) builds. We run synergistically. And that works for us. (We aren’t planning on doing Fractals 40+ btw.)

Again, do what works for you.

Just please do not attempt to shame, belittle or put down other players in this community because of your choice of playstyle / build / gear.

And the community will return the favor.

What I think I’m hearing is one size (and one type of gear) doesn’t fit all.

We have maybe 0.1% or less of the players in GW2 who have sufficient movement skill, and defensive-cooldown use skill, that they essentially do not take hits. For these players Berserker gear makes a great deal of sense.

We have another small slice of the population (which speed runs CoF1) who have learned a precise min/max strategy minimizing run time of the dungeon, which happens to use 4 warriors in a precise spec and Beserker gear. This. combined with a mesmer, allows might to be stacked extraordinarily high to power down bosses.

We have a much larger slice of the population playing the game as intended (and not in Fractals above 20ish) who have some movement and defensive CD skill but are neither powering encounters down nor avoiding every blow. For these people toughness and vitality matter. My own experience as part of this population is that team play and offensive/defensive synergies are a crucial part of success, and that a balance in gear between offense / defense / utility is needed given that players are taking hits over fights of extended duration.

We also have a noticeable slice of the population who see Beserker gear as FOTM and adopt it, having neither the player skill to actually use it properly nor the grasp of the game to realize why it is they go down so much. I would like to see the game somehow help such players self correct (or at least understand where they need to improve) but am at a loss for what can be done.

We also have a segment of players, who play more casually in the open world and never set foot in fractals or explorable dungeons, who perhaps have only minimal movement skill and minimal skill in timing defensive CD’s. It is possible for a player in this group to get to 80 without even grasping the significance of movement in this game, or still face tanking. I would also like the game to offer a self evaluation / learning / training path so these folks have a way to realize what they do not know, if they want to advance to dungeons. And I’d like the community and the game to have a place for them if they don’t. Knight’s armor or P/V/T is a very good fit here

So the answer to the argument, perhaps, is: it depends on playstyle and player skill.

The best offense is the best defense. You cannot effectively support or tank in this game, precision/power scales incredibly well, while toughness does not.

This game, is the only game, I have ever played, where such a large chunk of the players just say.

“I’m a scrub, and I don’t have any intention of trying to get better, leave me alone.”

The only time when berserker gear becomes worse than a more defensive set is when the player using the ‘zerker gear getas downed often because he can’t compensate for the lack of defensive stats with his skill. Sadly this happens all the time in pugs.

All damage is negated by using a mechanic in the game called dodge…so why do you need toughness and vitality if you can dodge everything?

if a person cannot dodge attacks…either it be latency or skill….then berserker gear < all other gear

if a person can dodge attack….then berserker gear > all other gear

And the game itself is designed about dps in many situations anyway. Basically, every time there are infinite adds (Hodgins’ path in AC is quite a good example about this…try doing that burrows without a good dps, yeah). Even when there aren’t, toughness can’t negate enough damage to be able to “tank” and even vitality isn’t helping much, cause healing skills don’t scale with vit (and scale pretty badly with healing power anyway).
So the only way to properly defend yourself is by dodging and using invulnerability…and you can do it with dps gear anyway.

Manuhell.2759:

And the game itself is designed about dps in many situations anyway. Basically, every time there are infinite adds (Hodgins’ path in AC is quite a good example about this…try doing that burrows without a good dps, yeah). Even when there aren’t, toughness can’t negate enough damage to be able to “tank” and even vitality isn’t helping much, cause healing skills don’t scale with vit (and scale pretty badly with healing power anyway).
So the only way to properly defend yourself is by dodging and using invulnerability…and you can do it with dps gear anyway.

The Juggernaut looks really great and fitting on your character. Nice work!

After my initial bad luck with clovers, I am continually getting closer to 77! Already got over 40 now. I should probably have used the 1 clover recipe right from the start instead of wasting 250 ectos on the large recipe and getting 20 clovers back.

Toughness is really there to just soak up mob autoattacks. So as long as you can survive the hits normally, and dodge the big attacks, you’re more or less good to go. I can’t say I’m a fan of this all-DPS-trinity but I guess it sure beats having to “LF1M Healer/Bunker” all day long.

I think conditions on PCs in PvE should be more punishing, and I think autoattacks should hit harder or something. Right now, this meta, while straightforward, leaves little depth to group play dynamics.

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

Thats the fault of the player then, and the group shouldn’t have to carry a bad player, regardless of the reason why he/she is bad, be it sub-par physical or mental capabilities, or a sub-par computer/internet connection. Bad players are bad players.

You are right in saying that PERHAPS Berserker gear may not be the best set up for these players. However, these players also (in a sense) need to L2P better. Take into account their sub-par computer or laggy internet connection and simply play better. Perhaps put in more effort than those with good computers and smooth internet connections, but still, play better.

Reikou.7068:

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

Thats the fault of the player then, and the group shouldn’t have to carry a bad player, regardless of the reason why he/she is bad, be it sub-par physical or mental capabilities, or a sub-par computer/internet connection. Bad players are bad players.

So you’re saying everyone in another country is a bad player? LMAO. Okay there. Add to the list of people I’d never consider grouping with.

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

I live in Australia and have full berserker on my thief. I have no issues. Even though there is a little bit of latency.

I have been trying other stats other than berserker on other classes. But the lack of damage is making me think why did I waste my gold and not go berserker?

Azure Prower.8701:

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

I live in Australia and have full berserker on my thief. I have no issues. Even though there is a little bit of latency.

I have been trying other stats other than berserker on other classes. But the lack of damage is making me think why did I waste my gold and not go berserker?

I’m down in Tasmania. Sometimes I have no issues, sometimes I have major issues. It depends on lots of factors. You can’t really go into a dungeon, and say okay I’m in my zerker gear, start having issues and expect to dodge every big attack. For that reason, not having zerker gear makes more sense for me, because if I don’t dodge some attacks, I still have a chance of surviving.

I can’t very well keep switching armor depending on how the connection is doing.

Vayne.8563:

Reikou.7068:

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

Thats the fault of the player then, and the group shouldn’t have to carry a bad player, regardless of the reason why he/she is bad, be it sub-par physical or mental capabilities, or a sub-par computer/internet connection. Bad players are bad players.

So you’re saying everyone in another country is a bad player? LMAO. Okay there. Add to the list of people I’d never consider grouping with.

Anyone who performs worse than the top 50% of the population is a bad player by definition of being sub-par.

The reasons why they perform worse than 50% of the population is irrelevant, and the game doesn’t recognize this anyway. Only the fact that they don’t perform up to par.

Reikou.7068:

Vayne.8563:

Reikou.7068:

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

Thats the fault of the player then, and the group shouldn’t have to carry a bad player, regardless of the reason why he/she is bad, be it sub-par physical or mental capabilities, or a sub-par computer/internet connection. Bad players are bad players.

So you’re saying everyone in another country is a bad player? LMAO. Okay there. Add to the list of people I’d never consider grouping with.

Anyone who performs worse than the top 50% of the population is a bad player by definition of being sub-par.

The reasons why they perform worse than 50% of the population is irrelevant, and the game doesn’t recognize this anyway. Only the fact that they don’t perform up to par.

I disagree with the use of the term bad to represent “sub-par”. Bad has connotations that imply lack of SKILL. Completely different than being unable to play areas of the game because of latency issues. It may have the same result, but the implications of the word is completely different.

Reikou.7068:

Anyone who performs worse than the top 50% of the population is a bad player by definition of being sub-par.

The reasons why they perform worse than 50% of the population is irrelevant, and the game doesn’t recognize this anyway. Only the fact that they don’t perform up to par.

Its also nice to know that by your own definition there’ll always be a segment of the gaming population that is ‘sub-par’.

Casualist.1052:

Let’s consider the relative similarity and intelligence of the following statements:

“Mass Berserker Gear is the best call because the threat of death is minimized when your enemies are killed quicker!”

“You should always speed when you drive! If you’re on the road for less time, that’s less time for you to get into an accident!”

Thoughts?

As pointed already, on the game, death have no significant meaning or cost.
If you drive fast and hit something, you will destroy your car, someones car and maybe die or be permanently injured.
If death was permanent in the game I think no one would ever put a piece of zerker gear.
Also, the driving is more like a PvP scenario (the reaction of other drivers to your speed or their random actions around you are not set as a bad AI, but more related to what they are and what they drive themselves) and in PvP you see a bigger variation of gear set-ups.
As a final point. In trafic not everyone can get the top-end car after one week grind at work. It would be interesting if they could. I Wonder how many Military Tanks and Ferrari we would see running around smashing each other… Just think if you could get any vehicle out there to drive over/past others what would you choose?

I’m too proud with my Soldier gear on my Guardian to take anything else

I have a zerker set and I think zerker gear is overrated. Sure the DPS is undeniable but other than a few instances where ultra high dps is needed any gear will do. Also in WvW, zerker gear = lots of dying and a hefty repair bill cause there is no way to dodge and negate everything coming at you in there.

I just love when I see:you need to dodge posts its now like a clasic trolling on all combat related threds.The truth is in open world pve and dungeons with zerker gear and max dmg builds you actualy dont need to dodge,exept for some crucial dodges you need to make no matter what gear set you have.Bunkers make dungeons and encounters in them much longer,which results in need of lot dodgeing,kiteing and cc to successfully complete them,but that style of play with lots of dodging and kiteing is what large number of players prefer as do I when I have time.Other thing that makes people go bunker and suport bunker idea is the fact they are scared of getting down in dungeons and the reaction of other players to them being downed.The irony is the more bunker you go the more aggro you will get lol,so where the zerker would save you bunker gets you all the attention.With curent system zerkers are the best for not just speed but also stress free runs,minimizing the encounter durations minimize the pressure group will take.Lets not forget WvW and PvP where situation is totaly difrent.Bunkers dominate the WvW and PvP,vigor is a must,dodgeing is esential,regen and kiteing key to victory.So to sumerize you dont have zerker only mindset,its more based on what area of game you play.

Reikou.7068:

Vayne.8563:

Reikou.7068:

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good point someone brought up. Some people are playing on machines that can’t keep up, or have intermittent lag spikes on their internet, or they are living in Australia and there’s sometimes latency issues. I don’t think any of that makes bezerker gear better for everyone.

Thats the fault of the player then, and the group shouldn’t have to carry a bad player, regardless of the reason why he/she is bad, be it sub-par physical or mental capabilities, or a sub-par computer/internet connection. Bad players are bad players.

So you’re saying everyone in another country is a bad player? LMAO. Okay there. Add to the list of people I’d never consider grouping with.

Anyone who performs worse than the top 50% of the population is a bad player by definition of being sub-par.

The reasons why they perform worse than 50% of the population is irrelevant, and the game doesn’t recognize this anyway. Only the fact that they don’t perform up to par.

There is no certainty that 50% is the right number for subpar. You can have 20% being sub par, 21-80% being on par and the rest above par. We have no clue what it looks like in the community, what the “skill field” looks like. It’s only assumptions, there are no set numbers that half the community is below avarage skill.

And as I said in the other post, balanced gear is the best way to go. Enough defense to survive getting hit, but not too much to impact your damage too heavily.

A lot of it has to do with perception imo. A guardian that can stand toe to toe with a toughness/vit build without doding 90% of the time is just as powerful in my eyes as some dude in zerker gear jumping around slamming the v button.

It’s a different mindset, and it’s probably why I’ll never bother seriously with dungeons in this game.

That analogy may be be true if player in full zerker can somehow cause serious injury to any bypassing players and every player only has one life.

I do recommend full zerker for PvE contents in GW2 for many reasons.

1. Force player to dodge. Be mindful about the situation and encounter.
2. Because no one really know for sure how aggro works in GW2.
3. Most effective tanking in game does not come from gear stats, it is the condition CC like Blind/Chilled and boons like Aegis/Protection.
4. The most effective healing is each player’s #6 skill, and HP scale poorly.
5. Speed up a dungeon run.

For those who insist on using most other gear, I have no objection about it, it is their play-style and choice.
However, I do not want said player in my party, just like player using MF gear or 5 signets players.

Sub-par player here.

I don’t think anyone has ever had big enough shoulders to give a shrug expansive enough to represent my reaction towards anyone upset about me not having Berserker gear.

I don’t think I’d particularly enjoy playing with anyone who would react like that anyway, so if anything it’s like an easy way to tell if I’m likely to be friends with you.

You saying I can dodge boulders? Im saying when your ready you wont need to.

Server side hit boxes are so bad that I walk straight through boulders in cof, I have to look at the boulders, calculate my latency, virtually imagine several invisible hitboxes and walk through Unscathed.

That said I do run zerker gear in dungeons (knights in wvw), but I don’t ever want to hear an American call me a bad player, when I’m doing the exactly as well as you are but with 10 times more difficulty due to latency.

Bit of credit to those of us who arent in America, protecting your keeps while you sleep and playing the game at it’s highest difficulty.

proxy.7963:

Sub-par player here.

I don’t think anyone has ever had big enough shoulders to give a shrug expansive enough to represent my reaction towards anyone upset about me not having Berserker gear.

I don’t think I’d particularly enjoy playing with anyone who would react like that anyway, so if anything it’s like an easy way to tell if I’m likely to be friends with you.

Right cause, if you have 4 strong players, it’s easy to carry the fifth.

But if there were 3 people like you in a group, you wouldn’t be able to get past the dungeon with a repair build under 1g.

Seren.6850:

You saying I can dodge boulders? Im saying when your ready you wont need to.

Server side hit boxes are so bad that I walk straight through boulders in cof, I have to look at the boulders, calculate my latency, virtually imagine several invisible hitboxes and walk through Unscathed.

That said I do run zerker gear in dungeons (knights in wvw), but I don’t ever want to hear an American call me a bad player, when I’m doing the exactly as well as you are but with 10 times more difficulty due to latency.

Bit of credit to those of us who arent in America, protecting your keeps while you sleep and playing the game at it’s highest difficulty.

this is getting into a race war up in here :O oh goodie

Now I know you are talking about the berserker gear. Personally never a fan of staking all one gear type on any of my characters. Never will be.

But I actually make one of my warriors with a berserker traits build… sheesh talk about squishy.

Again do not support anyone gear type. It is always best to diversify.

The problem is that there’s no reason to wear anything other than berserker gear.

You go in to dungeons/fractals/group events and get hit by a stray … whatever…. you die. Full toughness/vit gear? You die. Why? Because the ‘difficulty’ in GW2 is synonymous with ‘kitten hits really hard, learn to dodge’. Having Champions hit like that with one-shot abilities and have hp bars as long as ‘War and Peace’ only backs this up.

Might as well hedge your bets and take something down with before you screw up your dodges, better chance to rally as well…

I do most dungeon content with my guardian. I have a full zerker set and full knight set. I generally run knights armor/weps with zerker trinkets for dungeons. But if the need arises I can go with more toughness or more dps.

If there’s a pvt guard I my group, I switch to full zerk. Plus I run full zerk for cake dungeons like CoF 1. Full zerk for open world PvE as well.

Just because there are a lot of bad players running full zerk doesn’t mean it isn’t viable. It’s just not for everyone, and some classes have a little more leniency with it.

When every battle in a dungeon comes down to a battle of attrition it’s just tiring. I like having a dps focused (not necessarily zerk) party for any dungeon in the game.

My necro has all zerker and my guardian has knights armor/zerker rest. I feel the knight’s part hasn’t really helped me. I would think PTV gear and god forbid cleric’s gear would be insanely boring.. The thing is that the goal of most scenarios in the game involve killing enemies. There’s three ways to help: Actually killing them, helping others kill faster, and preventing others from dying so your dps doesn’t drop. Even the last relates to damage output. The first just happens to be the simplest way to make it work. Or let’s put it this way, if you don’t do no.1., you drag down the team. I already provide might, healing, protection, aegis, and swiftness, on my guardian, and tons of condition removal. On my necro, I provide a flesh golem, vulnerability, weakness, cripple, retaliation, and blinding That’s enough support already. That’s just my opinion though.

Can someone in “tank” gear be able to survive big hits from bosses? Please educate me here.

In theory at least, those that don’t need defensive stats and use actual control are more skilled. I don’t really see a point in contesting this. Sure, if they faceplant after doing damage like myself, they suck, but that’s why people say “need”. One could compare this to RTS games where players that are better build the minimal defense to not waste time and resources. But here’s the thing. In an RTS or FPS, saving a few seconds early on can be critical and determine victory or defeat. Saving a few seconds here in this game has more dubious benefits.

You can’t “win” in this game unless it’s WvW (kinda) or PvP. So are we judging player success by gold and resource accrual? So someone has 35 more gold than another after 100 runs. Does the player to acquire a legendary first win? But this goal is arbitrary in itself. Does this mean every player that doesn’t farm or chooses other dungeons a noob? Or let’s cut to the point. Is the only definition of skill in this game running Cof 1 and FoTM?

Fact is, people run zerk and can do it. If they can and you can’t, they are better than you. Better you at what, and whether or people give a kitten or not is the other issue.

On the other hand. If you are bad like me, you should also weak zerker gear. This is because you will die anyways and might as well get as much damage in. :p You can also brag about your dps when you’re dead and have nothing better to do.

Auesis.7301:

Not even close. There is no reason to wear anything OTHER than Berserker or equivalent condition sets. Almost all survival in high-end content comes from dodging, blinds, projectile absorption/reflection, blocks and other methods not related in any way to your natural defences. There is not enough risk to warrant giving yourself a pointless safety net.

You just explained the reason not to wear berserker in dungeons. Some people are not skilled enough and they waste endurance and/or don’t understand how to time weappn evades or why they might need aegis. I’d say if you’re a solid, experienced player, you can deal with less defense and actually become more efficient. If you’re not, then for the sake of the party and time, please bring a little defense, whether it be a slot skill or a full set of knight’s gear, depending on that sliding scale of skill.

Not everyone plays this game like us (thousands of ours) so you have to consider that maybe they’ll just die a lot and get frustrated in pure glass. Then isn’t it better for that player to bring defense until he or she improves?

ArchonWing.9480:

My necro has all zerker and my guardian has knights armor/zerker rest. I feel the knight’s part hasn’t really helped me. I would think PTV gear and god forbid cleric’s gear would be insanely boring, but that’s just my opinion.

Can someone in “tank” gear be able to survive big hits from bosses? Please educate me here.

In theory at least, those that don’t need defensive stats and use actual control are more skilled. I don’t really see a point in contesting this. Sure, if they faceplant after doing damage, they suck, but that’s why people say “need”. One could compare this to RTS games where players that are better build the minimal defense to not waste time and resources. But here’s the thing. In an RTS or FPS, saving a few seconds early on can be critical and determine victory or defeat. Saving a few seconds here in this game has more dubious benefits.

You can’t “win” in this game unless it’s WvW (kinda) or PvP. So are we judging player success by gold and resource accrual? So someone has 35 more gold than another after 100 runs. Does the player to acquire a legendary first win? But this goal is arbitrary in itself. Does this mean every player that doesn’t farm or chooses other dungeons a noob? Or let’s cut to the point. Is the only definition of skill in this game running Cof 1 and FoTM?

Fact is, people run zerk and can do it. If they can and you can’t, they are better than you. Better you at what, and whether or people give a kitten or not is the other issue.

Fact is with 4 – without running full zerker gear, we don’t go down because none of can afford to. Gear alone does not determine skill. It doesn’t mean we facetank. It means, we’ve learned the specific fights in specific dungeons and are moving accordingly just like someone in full zerker gear. We don’t have the luxury of 1 or 2 players down, on any fight.

There is “skill” in picking builds, professions, gear, learning encounters, going up against another player in predetermined gear in SPvP, learning how, when to go up against a wide variety of players/situations in WvW. Strategy, tactics, etcetera.

There is “skill” in playing frogger, doing jump puzzles, and being the first to figure out what turns into a cookie cutter method of doing speedruns.

Players have different types and levels of skills. Is one better than any other? Does anyone have them all? Does any one of those mean they are better than anyone else?

They may be better at whatever specific gameplay they have focused on/honed/practiced. Gameplay that not everyone values.

That does not make them better than anyone else.

There is a distinction there that single-focused players might not understand.

The biggest misconception in this thread is the biggest misconception in MMO’s everywhere. Full DPS is NOT harder to play than tanky/healy/supporty characters, no matter how much the DPS meter kings want it to be.

goldenwing.8473:

ArchonWing.9480:

My necro has all zerker and my guardian has knights armor/zerker rest. I feel the knight’s part hasn’t really helped me. I would think PTV gear and god forbid cleric’s gear would be insanely boring, but that’s just my opinion.

Can someone in “tank” gear be able to survive big hits from bosses? Please educate me here.

In theory at least, those that don’t need defensive stats and use actual control are more skilled. I don’t really see a point in contesting this. Sure, if they faceplant after doing damage, they suck, but that’s why people say “need”. One could compare this to RTS games where players that are better build the minimal defense to not waste time and resources. But here’s the thing. In an RTS or FPS, saving a few seconds early on can be critical and determine victory or defeat. Saving a few seconds here in this game has more dubious benefits.

You can’t “win” in this game unless it’s WvW (kinda) or PvP. So are we judging player success by gold and resource accrual? So someone has 35 more gold than another after 100 runs. Does the player to acquire a legendary first win? But this goal is arbitrary in itself. Does this mean every player that doesn’t farm or chooses other dungeons a noob? Or let’s cut to the point. Is the only definition of skill in this game running Cof 1 and FoTM?

Fact is, people run zerk and can do it. If they can and you can’t, they are better than you. Better you at what, and whether or people give a kitten or not is the other issue.

Fact is with 4 – without running full zerker gear, we don’t go down because none of can afford to. Gear alone does not determine skill. It doesn’t mean we facetank. It means, we’ve learned the specific fights in specific dungeons and are moving accordingly just like someone in full zerker gear. We don’t have the luxury of 1 or 2 players down, on any fight.

There is “skill” in picking builds, professions, gear, learning encounters, going up against another player in predetermined gear in SPvP, learning how, when to go up against a wide variety of players/situations in WvW. Strategy, tactics, etcetera.

There is “skill” in playing frogger, doing jump puzzles, and being the first to figure out what turns into a cookie cutter method of doing speedruns.

Players have different types and levels of skills. Is one better than any other? Does anyone have them all? Does any one of those mean they are better than anyone else?

They may be better at whatever specific gameplay they have focused on/honed/practiced. Gameplay that not everyone values.

That does not make them better than anyone else.

There is a distinction there that single-focused players might not understand.

It’s true. Gear itself doesn’t determine skill. It’s how one exercises the potential of it that matters. However, it does seem like the ceiling for damage output seems disproportionately favored in this game. Surely, one person can use zerker and still do nothing, but then again there are those that do a lot and that’s where it matters. That is what bothers people where the alternatives don’t seem to yield such any appreciable results.

And that’s also the distinction I made. Someone might better than you at something. Does it really matter? Does it even make them a better player. And ultimately the conclusion I came to is that any such valuation is irrelevant, and people often use their own criteria to define things. So that was what I asked. Sure if you do well in zerker, you can get more runs in and get more loot. But loot is not an end to itself. So what? 1 minute can make or break gameplay in other genres, but in this game, the benefits are subjective. A lot of people could say that grinding for a legendary is waste of time, or maybe even that this game wasn’t even meant for grinding and thus this efficiency race is just a delusion.

This is why a number of people complain about this game being too easy or catered to casuals. They’d want to impose their rat race on this game, and well, it’s just not the end all and be all of things.

Single minded indeed.