Guild Wars 2

Ohmicide.5478:

I think that people are more angry about the fact that the devs stated on numerous occasions that there would be no gear grind. This is like your teaching giving you a surprise final exam half way through the course.

And then they basically followed up that with “oh wait, hold it angry fans. It’s not grind, it’s called “gear progression”, which is not what we promised to leave out"

- Clap -

A bunch of immoral marketing devs. How do you expect the fans to keep our faith in you devs when all day long you guys just wants to play games with your words?

; A conflict caused by two sides speaking different languages.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I have to use the tl:dr to quote you, otherwise I may not have room to reply

I’m running into that problem as well.

I agree we don’t know what Anet’s plan is regarding all this but they’re also not being transparent with it to give people a pause of relief. Right now it looks like they mucked about without very much thought and are being reactive instead of proactive. It’s bad business and it’s not a good thing to be known as ‘that company that reacts instead of proactively creates.’ Unfortunately they way they are acting is not exactly confidence building or in any way on the path to restoring people’s trust or brand loyalty.

I would have loved to be the fly on the wall to those meetings that brain stormed the release of FotM and Ascended. It sure would have provided a lot more insight to their goals than the current information.

Out of all the things they explained the gap between Exotics and Legendaries was the thing that was explained even marginally well. The disparity between effort was enormous and I can understand the need to create a much smaller goal to reach. Consider this, 4 years of college can be… discouraging for some. My friends who went to a 4 year college and dropped out are greater than those who went to a 2 year college and then to a 4 year college to finish up. We all agreed that it was much more encouraging to finish one set and grab a midway diploma before grabbing the actual diploma. My sister who hates studying and school also did the 2 year/4 year and completed while all her friends did not even the most studious. Studies also prove that in long term goals having short term goals to reach make the long term much easier to obtain. I don’t think anyone in the forums disagreed there was a gap and that a middle goal was needed. What is not understood is why they took that gap and raised the statistical advantage creating yet another gap. That’s what is most unclear about the entire process of gap closing.

Correct best way to combat it is to make it a personal choice to not participate in the dungeon bullying but as all things there will come to be a time where those that stand against will grow weary of being the only ones making a difference. I don’t think that the community is wholly responsible though. Anet gave them the tools to encourage it instead of lowering it. There are many suggestions in the forum that have cropped up giving alternatives of what they ‘could’ have done to create a more inclusive instead of exclusive community. Anet can’t remove the human condition but they can take measures to dissuade it.

Take for instance my own personal example. I’ve been running Fractals for fun so I’ve repeated level 1 and 2 a few times to help people out a bit. Through all that I managed to get to level 4 and found several groups, at the time, who could run level 4. 2 Client crashes and disconnects later and I gave up moving to level 5 and moved onto other things. Today I cannot find a level 4 group after shouting for a hours through several overflows though there were people doing level 5. I found 2 groups that were doing level 3 and my initial thought was, let me help them to then do level 4. Those groups however dissolved after completion and hours later I’m still on level 4 and right back were I started hours ago. Imagine that this continues on several more times with leveling being incredibly slow. I don’t have endless patience and I don’t know anyone who does and plays Guild Wars 2. I also shouldn’t be punished/forced to join some large nameless guild just to advance. These scenarios could have been avoided through Anet’s development team but instead now rely solely on the community of which come from the internet (and let’s be honest… it’s not a pretty place.) Basically they fostered a place where the human condition can thrive.

I honestly don’t care too much for FotM and would have happily ignored it along with Ascended gear if not for the monthly chest. I found I did have some bit of fun but it’s not something that is part of my own personal goals in GW2 so I don’t care if I ever move from level 4. I’ll run 1 through 4 if I have to until I get bored. Right now it’s just a diversion to me but I can sympathize with those who are in situations similar to mine and are frustrated. Any fix Anet does now puts them right back into the reactive category which I stated earlier is not a good place to be.

cegorach.5624:

Well, I think you may be missing my point.

I agree that the ‘elitist’ people are likely to be those who lack the time in real life to put in the ‘hard work’ to get ‘rewards’.

My question is though whether that is how they think – particularly in relation to others.

That kind of cognitive dissonance operation is very common in extreme viewpoints – for example, you don’t need to look far in terms of political views to see that most people advocating extremes on either side are horrendously hypocritical.

Latte-sipping communists and Tea Party hoverround dwellers ranting about healthcare are both clear examples of people preaching ideals they are a lot happier to impose on others than take on themselves.

And I’d argue that games are a great enabler of this, given the disconnect from reality.

If you’re a basement dwelling neckbearded l88tist who would rather raid all day than get a job, it’s not a stretch to imagine the cognitive rebound of you pouring scorn on others who refuse to do the ‘work’ to have uber gear like you do, for example.

And I wonder about the other direction – are those in-game egalitarian folks exactly the same outside?

Jeebus man! I’m starting get the idea that you may be either a sadist or masochist who gets a kick out of either (or both) suffering or imposing carpal tunnel syndrome! You trying to bounce around term paper ideas or something LOL!

Well anyway, while I still have some sensation in my fingertips, I’d offer up the idea of compartmentalization. A psychological idea that probably plays a noticeable roll in such behavior or, more specifically, the ability to behave seemingly ‘hypocritically’ in two separate arenas of one’s life without having to deal with the normal internal struggles that would otherwise result. Additionally, I think the relative anonymity everyone enjoys from behind their monitor and keyboard over the internet makes it even easier to quell one’s normal internal conflict.

I guess (and I stress – guess) that this interpretation of psychological compartmentalization is an extrapolation (loose one) of the theory of Gestaltism, if you subscribe to it. Basically that one’s psyche, behavior and personality are always a part of the psychological interplay of personalities in a group and so the individual is influenced by and reactive to the presence of and interaction with other’s psyches and personalities. In a brutally crude example; you’re going to behave differently in the presence of your boss than that of your co-workers, likewise you’d behave differently at the birthday party of peers than at the birthday party of a 12 year old. I’m sure I’m not doing the concept justice but hopefully that makes some sense. Heh, if not it’s because clearly I’m not nearly sharp enough with words to express what I’m getting at without writing a book here ;P.

Keep in mind I’m not hardly any kind of trained psychological doctor so you’re getting “the lay man’s best stab” at how people are able to behave so contrary, even polar opposite, in different area’s of their lives with out cracking their very emotional bedrock. I’m also sure there are other reasons at play here. I think I’m at least getting across that yes, I do think people are fully capable and probably usually do, have a seemingly “antithetic” point of view in MMOs compared to their real life ideals and morals. They can do so with ease too by seperating their on-line gaming “me”, from their public, I fit in with this group because I behave in a way that pleases them “me”.

And hey, if nothing else, the easiest reasoning for such behavior is probably as simple as, “this is just a game with no real consequences.” In a similar vein you have the role play crowd to whom the fun and entertainment it’s self is in behaving like an entirely different person with different morals and ideals.

Anyway, good luck with your paper Bro!

And if this was a troll, Bravo Sir! I can’t believe I just put that much thought into why and how people behave differently in games opposed to real life! Impressive ;P!

Stating “this is just a game with no real consequences.” is actually quite deceptive – there are consequences to your in game choices on a social level.

If I decide I want to run the new dungeons, but decide that I want to do it using my untested and highly unorthodox new build the consequences may be:
1. I will run with people who don’t care (usually mates).
2. I will be asked to justify or alter my build decision prior to acceptance or rejection.
3. I will be bounced before joining, possibly because of my build.

Only in cases 1 and 2 do I get a chance at doing what I want to in a game “I paid for rarrrrrr!”.

So I’ve made my decisions, attempted my action of doing a run, and then there are consequences. Acceptance and understanding of those consequences matters.

Here is some more fuel for the fire:
1. Equity and Equality are different, you don’t want equality if you have two clues regarding what they mean.
2. This is a SOCIAL activity, there are plenty of non-social RPGs out there if you want to quarantine yourself from others.
3. Some people are better at things than others, and deserve validation of that when it is the case.
4. Work or Effort is entwined with Achievement biologically – or we’d starve to death enjoying a floor nap.
5. The level of engagement and participation in an activity relates to above.

We are all playing for some type of rewards and competing, the competition and rewards varies however based on personal preference. Given that games have rules and structure, intentions and ideals, and provide a context for play – it is in fact possible for a person to be wrong about what their rewards are and on the specifics of “competing” (in the context of the game), or just wrong about which game is most compatible with their personal preferences, especially as both the game and player evolve.

cegorach.5624:

I disagree that this is fundamental human nature, though I’ll add your point wasn’t possibly articulated well to the discussion.

You said ‘people want to feel like winners’ as being human nature.

I don’t think that is the case.

Some people simply don’t.

Some people definitely don’t if it means others suffer, or feel bad.

Some people want EVERYONE to feel like winners, not just themselves.

Some people want themselves and those they care about to feel that way but don’t care about others.

And it goes on.

You’re describing one end of the spectrum – the ‘I got mine’ crew – as being definitive of human nature.

I’d say that’s one extreme end of a spectrum.

So my question is about how that entire spectrum translates to and from a game world.

Human nature can never be calculated.
“To feel special” is part of the human nature, no one can deny that.

Let’s have an example.
Scenario 1 : There’s a sports game event that everyone races to the finish line. There are trophies for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd places. The 4th to 9th places received a token of participation.

Scenario 2 : There’s a sports game event that everyone races to the finish line. There are no trophies and winners. All 1st to 9th places received a token of participation.

Which scenario above makes players feel a sense of anticipation and more satisfied?
The obvious answer would be scenario 1. Ask yourself why? It’s because it’s a game. In a game, there are suppose to be both winners and losers. What is a game when everyone is a “winner”? It’s just an illusion to blind people when in fact, there’re no winners and losers. It’s part of human nature to have or achieve something that the rest doesn’t. When they achieve something that the rest doesn’t, they feel special. When everyone achieve the same thing, there’s lesser appeal to the event. There’s no prestige.

Another example are the branded items in the real world.
Why do many people go after such stuffs when there’s a cheaper item with the same functionality? Human nature plays a part in this too. When people bought a branded bag that the majority can never afford, they feel a sense of being special. When they wear something with high rarity, they feel rewarded and proved to the public that they have worked hard to earn that amount of money to purchase something “rare”. While not everyone goes after the same thing, the element is still inside us.

There’s few examples in gw2 too.
Why some players go after rare skins like dungeons, legendary and the halloween weapon skins? Again, human nature rides on this. If they wear skins that the majority doesn’t have, they feel “special” and a “winner”. The only problem is that they never regard another part of the human nature. The human nature of “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. After dedicated players achieved their favourite skins, they no longer have any goals left. It created a wall to the end-game. Yet again, the 3rd part of the human nature was disregarded. When there’re no goals left, people naturally become demotivated and doesn’t feel like doing X/Y/Z today. The progression was halt. Yet again, the 4th part of the human nature was disregarded. People have the basic need of progression (not just gear but the progression as a whole). When they have more, they always want more. The hunger. The human nature of greed. No one is spared from that.

Human nature itself is a big thing. Like above, human nature is like a chain from one thing to another. Many thing in this world revolves about one who wants to feel special. I agree that it’s only a part of the spectrum. But in the past all the way to the present, there are many positive and negative that come through this part of human nature.

cegorach.5624:

zargnath.9524:

IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

I find this response ironic and funny.

from wikipedia:
A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool.

in other words: the game is supposed to be reward for your work, not a new job.

As for me: i’m the case and counter-point to the argument about human nature:
I’ve always been incredibly good in the MMOs i’ve played. I’ve been scouted by and personally rejected invitations to “elite guilds” because I don’t like that culture. I found reward in helping where I was actually needed.

I’m seeing the results of FotM already as zones empty.

I did not sign up for that.

Please re-adjust the difficulty of FotM dungeons not to require a new gear tier, and expand upon the concept to add more paths (and reward sets) to existing explorable mode dungeons with tiered difficulty (but NOT tiered gear).

As it stands now, the gear requirement, the fact that it can only be obtained through one aspect of game-play, and the gating of this game-play are fragmenting the community and killing off world-zone play. It is feeding the type of elitism that is reviled by the vast majority of the communities in other MMOs, and introducing fundamental imbalance to pvp.

Gone is the promised reward for helping your lowbie friends. Now you are rewarded for anti-social behavior, such as eschewing your fellow players requests for help to stay in fractals, excluding people who don’t have enough agony resistance or high enough level who look for fractal groups.

Soon you will see people who reach the end of this progression come back out of fractals to farm gold for the next “item batch release” in dynamic events, and they, with superior stats from a new vertical tier ANet promised for ages would never happen, will prevent others who don’t like fractals from properly tagging mobs.

I never thought i’d see this game end up in “Gearscore Land”, but it seems that’s the border we’re crossing right now, and in so doing violating every promise made to this community, and you CAN stop it without harming the playability and re-playability of the content!

I think it’s odd that everyone assumes that they have the same information as Anet does. We have no idea what their numbers were like pre and post ascended gear. We do know that there was a significant group of people who were sitting around farming Orr at the expense of anything else. We do know is that a common comment on the forums was for people who didn’t feel like they had anything to do was to stop playing. That works great for the players, they don’t have to pay a subscription, so they can only come back for a few weekends a year and get their moneies worth. It makes complete sense to me that Anet doesn’t want to encourage that kind of behavior. It makes complete sense to me that adding this new tier of gear in slow batches was a measured move to combat the lack of progression that many players were feeling while hopefully not completely alienating the groups of people who are spending their time exploring the world.

I just don’t understand how everyone is so presumptuous about the facts of guildwars compared to the people who have all the numbers.

The best strategies ignore pleas that will hurt the loyal core consumers.

Also, given that the stat differences between exotics and ascendeds are pretty low, there should be no real reason to do FoTM as high as humanly possible each time or to not do it with lower level people who might need help. I mean, the drops aren’t any better, the fractal pieces don’t drop more and other than ascended rings (which again have a pretty minor increase stat wise over exotics), people seem to think that going as high as you can with fractals is the only way to go.

But I don’t see the point in it.

Just because people think they need to fragment the community doesn’t mean it’s actually true.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Also, given that the stat differences between exotics and ascendeds are pretty low, there should be no real reason to do FoTM as high as humanly possible each time or to not do it with lower level people who might need help. I mean, the drops aren’t any better, the fractal pieces don’t drop more and other than ascended rings (which again have a pretty minor increase stat wise over exotics), people seem to think that going as high as you can with fractals is the only way to go.

But I don’t see the point in it.

Just because people think they need to fragment the community doesn’t mean it’s actually true.

the stat differences are not low. back pack is +18%, ring is +50%.

Sky.1623:

I think it’s odd that everyone assumes that they have the same information as Anet does. We have no idea what their numbers were like pre and post ascended gear. We do know that there was a significant group of people who were sitting around farming Orr at the expense of anything else. We do know is that a common comment on the forums was for people who didn’t feel like they had anything to do was to stop playing. That works great for the players, they don’t have to pay a subscription, so they can only come back for a few weekends a year and get their moneies worth. It makes complete sense to me that Anet doesn’t want to encourage that kind of behavior. It makes complete sense to me that adding this new tier of gear in slow batches was a measured move to combat the lack of progression that many players were feeling while hopefully not completely alienating the groups of people who are spending their time exploring the world.

I just don’t understand how everyone is so presumptuous about the facts of guildwars compared to the people who have all the numbers.

Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?

Sky.1623:

I think it’s odd that everyone assumes that they have the same information as Anet does. We have no idea what their numbers were like pre and post ascended gear. We do know that there was a significant group of people who were sitting around farming Orr at the expense of anything else. We do know is that a common comment on the forums was for people who didn’t feel like they had anything to do was to stop playing. That works great for the players, they don’t have to pay a subscription, so they can only come back for a few weekends a year and get their moneies worth. It makes complete sense to me that Anet doesn’t want to encourage that kind of behavior. It makes complete sense to me that adding this new tier of gear in slow batches was a measured move to combat the lack of progression that many players were feeling while hopefully not completely alienating the groups of people who are spending their time exploring the world.

I just don’t understand how everyone is so presumptuous about the facts of guildwars compared to the people who have all the numbers.

It’s also fine for ANet though if they only log on 1 week a year. This lowers infrastructure and services costs for ANet proportionally.

We’ve seen where vertical gear progression, particularly tying it to only one aspect of gameplay, takes games.

We’ve seen it in too many past and currently competing titles to name, and those competing titles should be very, very clear in ANet’s mind right now, because they have already implemented and perfected vertical gear treadmills.

I predict any effort to retain these titles’ target client-base for any significant length of time in the face of titles specifically engineered around this concept will be a losing one, and in the process the market segment they claimed to cater to will have abandoned them in droves.

Columba.9730:

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Also, given that the stat differences between exotics and ascendeds are pretty low, there should be no real reason to do FoTM as high as humanly possible each time or to not do it with lower level people who might need help. I mean, the drops aren’t any better, the fractal pieces don’t drop more and other than ascended rings (which again have a pretty minor increase stat wise over exotics), people seem to think that going as high as you can with fractals is the only way to go.

But I don’t see the point in it.

Just because people think they need to fragment the community doesn’t mean it’s actually true.

the stat differences are not low. back pack is +18%, ring is +50%.

They’re low when you actually take total stat pools into account and stop comparing generalist divinity stat distributions to specialized stat distributions.

Leonard.2867:

Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?

OP is weighing his personal opinions vs what Anet did. We have access to none of the information they have. It seems dumb to ask them to change something because you don’t like the precedent when we’re not going to talk about all the positive and negative effects on the game.

Sky.1623:

Leonard.2867:

Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?

OP is weighing his personal opinions vs what Anet did. We have access to none of the information they have. It seems dumb to ask them to change something because you don’t like the precedent when we’re not going to talk about all the positive and negative effects on the game.

If I am not mistaken, 90% of the threads on in ‘Guild Wars 2 Discussion’ do this. Does it seem dumb now? Columbus once said the World is round…. what an opinion he had!

Yes, I am very disappointed with the direction. I just traveled through Lion’s Arch on a character I’m leveling and map chat is a fragmented mess. Sad to see as the basic game is just so good. I love the incentives for people to play together and help each other. Really don’t understand what they were thinking with this—hope the convo with Chris clears up their lack of thought process with the introduction of ascended gear and gated content.

Both Backpack and rings are 20%. The Karka Shell vs the Ring that doesn’t exist in game but you love to quote is around 20% as well if a similar upgrade slot for divinity based stat setups existed. An exotic ring vs an ascended ring that isn’t the ring that you won’t stop quoting is 20%. That’s really not super significant. Yes it’s nice, but it’s not so huge that it’s necessary for anything specifically.

But that’s my opinion. Some people might find it worth it.

Sky.1623:

Leonard.2867:

Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?

OP is weighing his personal opinions vs what Anet did. We have access to none of the information they have. It seems dumb to ask them to change something because you don’t like the precedent when we’re not going to talk about all the positive and negative effects on the game.

This has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinions. The issue, rather, is with the vision Anet communicated to customers. It has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion; rather it has to do with the words of Anet when they introduced the game. Personal preference was an issue when people bought the game. It makes no sense to buy a product that aligns with your personal preferences and then find that they’ve decided to make the game conform to someone else’s personal preferences. If I buy a product that says it’s going to dye my hair blond, I’m not going to be happy with a product that dyes my hair brown. Was the decision made on personal opinion? Yes, I think my hair looks better blond. Am I justified in being upset? Yes, the product said it was going to dye my hair blond. This is straightforward, there are no questions of personal preference or opinion in the matter at hand.

Hobocop.1508:

Columba.9730:

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Also, given that the stat differences between exotics and ascendeds are pretty low, there should be no real reason to do FoTM as high as humanly possible each time or to not do it with lower level people who might need help. I mean, the drops aren’t any better, the fractal pieces don’t drop more and other than ascended rings (which again have a pretty minor increase stat wise over exotics), people seem to think that going as high as you can with fractals is the only way to go.

But I don’t see the point in it.

Just because people think they need to fragment the community doesn’t mean it’s actually true.

the stat differences are not low. back pack is +18%, ring is +50%.

They’re low when you actually take total stat pools into account and stop comparing generalist divinity stat distributions to specialized stat distributions.

If they are low enough to don’t matter, then they can be safely removed. If they can’t be safely removed, then they DO matter.

Raine.1394:

This has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinions. The issue, rather, is with the vision Anet communicated to customers. It has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion; rather it has to do with the words of Anet when they introduced the game. Personal preference was an issue when people bought the game. It makes no sense to buy a product that aligns with your personal preferences and then find that they’ve decided to make the game conform to someone else’s personal preferences. If I buy a product that says it’s going to dye my hair blond, I’m not going to be happy with a product that dyes my hair brown. Was the decision made on personal opinion? Yes, I think my hair looks better blond. Am I justified in being upset? Yes, the product said it was going to dye my hair blond. This is straightforward, there are no questions of personal preference or opinion in the matter at hand.

I bought a product that promised to make my hair blonde. I could get more of this product whenever I wanted. The producers realize that some people aren’t happy with the shade of blonde that was received. They start seeing the numbers and mindset representative of people being ‘finished’ with their product, not buying any more of the bonus features where they were making their real money. They make a educated decision to make the product a little more brown, trying to find a place where both people can be happy.

I think if you want to be mad, be mad at the lack of transparency about the causes of this adjustment (which, fingers crossed, will be talked about in the AMA). The people who think this decision was made solely, or mostly, based of the forums are being naive.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Both Backpack and rings are 20%. The Karka Shell vs the Ring that doesn’t exist in game but you love to quote is around 20% as well if a similar upgrade slot for divinity based stat setups existed. An exotic ring vs an ascended ring that isn’t the ring that you won’t stop quoting is 20%. That’s really not super significant. Yes it’s nice, but it’s not so huge that it’s necessary for anything specifically.

But that’s my opinion. Some people might find it worth it.

20% on one item isn’t significant because it’s watered down by the aggregate stats of items for which ascended versions do not exist (yet!). However, 20% on all item slots is most definitely not trivial.

The real problem, as I see it, is that the increased stats on these items are affecting the psychology of the game community. Even if the increase is very small, people will just have to have the new gear. People are driven to “progress” if the game will allow it, even if the progression is marginal at best. This will affect what content is played and how people group up. I think that once people are fully progressed, they’re just playing for fun instead of some concrete end goal that requires a specific mode of play. You see more things like people helping lower level guildies with content and generally more friendly play because the need to progress has been removed.

Hobocop.1508:

Columba.9730:

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Also, given that the stat differences between exotics and ascendeds are pretty low, there should be no real reason to do FoTM as high as humanly possible each time or to not do it with lower level people who might need help. I mean, the drops aren’t any better, the fractal pieces don’t drop more and other than ascended rings (which again have a pretty minor increase stat wise over exotics), people seem to think that going as high as you can with fractals is the only way to go.

But I don’t see the point in it.

Just because people think they need to fragment the community doesn’t mean it’s actually true.

the stat differences are not low. back pack is +18%, ring is +50%.

They’re low when you actually take total stat pools into account and stop comparing generalist divinity stat distributions to specialized stat distributions.

That’s irrelevant. The stats are 20-50% higher. Fact and case closed. Don’t throw base stats into this, they don’t change these facts.

Sky.1623:

Raine.1394:

This has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinions. The issue, rather, is with the vision Anet communicated to customers. It has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion; rather it has to do with the words of Anet when they introduced the game. Personal preference was an issue when people bought the game. It makes no sense to buy a product that aligns with your personal preferences and then find that they’ve decided to make the game conform to someone else’s personal preferences. If I buy a product that says it’s going to dye my hair blond, I’m not going to be happy with a product that dyes my hair brown. Was the decision made on personal opinion? Yes, I think my hair looks better blond. Am I justified in being upset? Yes, the product said it was going to dye my hair blond. This is straightforward, there are no questions of personal preference or opinion in the matter at hand.

I bought a product that promised to make my hair blonde. I could get more of this product whenever I wanted. The producers realize that some people aren’t happy with the shade of blonde that was received. They start seeing the numbers and mindset representative of people being ‘finished’ with their product, not buying any more of the bonus features where they were making their real money. They make a educated decision to make the product a little more brown, trying to find a place where both people can be happy.

I think if you want to be mad, be mad at the lack of transparency about the causes of this adjustment (which, fingers crossed, will be talked about in the AMA). The people who think this decision was made solely, or mostly, based of the forums are being naive.

I knew what shade of blond I wanted and bought; I bought the shade I wanted. The company made it clear what shade they were selling. I didn’t buy brown. It was made clear by the manufacturer what shade of blond they were selling. There’s no spin that will work with this, just a straight telling of the truth. Again, it has nothing to do with the preferences of people. The people who are upset know why they bought what the bought.

If they balance around gear rather than skill-based play, it means we are being insulted.

If I have to wear special gear to down an event, I feel like I’ve cheated.

If they build the event around me “cheating”, that makes me feel worse.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

SHM.7628:

One way or the other, The whole thing was more grind than I wated or had time for. I wanted to play the game they promised me. Remember the one where grind weasn’t present? where you could just enjoy the contenet?

That never happened! I wa always grinding karma,. Ok I didn’t craft and you did. You grinded materials or gold for them. who cares? It was grind all the same. Now there are fractals to grind.

You know when I had fun? When I wasn’t grinding but enjoying the content. There were some fun areas and DE’s but that all got lost in the shuffle.

(snip)

Also, take note. Nowhere in here did I say you were an idiot, or that you were wrong. to not like that stuff. Please don’t take it that way, it’s what you feel and it’s what you think. It’s valuable to hear this laid out in detail rather than “it’s all a grind!!!!!” with no details. Maybe it’ll help developers for other games reading these forums? I dunno.

I will tell you “you are wrong” for telling me I must hate that stuff I mentioned above.

I would never call you stupid or wrong for your opinion. Opinions are subjective. You are as entitled to yours as I am to mine. However, on these boards there seems to be an overwhelming consensus on the points I made. What’s more, there have been empty servers to back up the fact that people are highly upset and disapointed. Many people left the game.

It’s hard to look at what has transpired and not draw the conclusion that there are major problems here. Anet caused a good many of them with fixes to a system that was not initially broken.

I think there’s a tendency to demonize people with complaints on the forums. I think for the most part they’ve been reasonable. I don’t see people ranting about bugs. (there are still lots) People are annoyed at misteps, broken promises, and a deviation from the manifesto. Rightfully so!

Leonard.2867:

If I am not mistaken, 90% of the threads on in ‘Guild Wars 2 Discussion’ do this. Does it seem dumb now? Columbus once said the World is round…. what an opinion he had!

It was actually quite a common opinion at the time, you can read more about the decline of the Flat Earth theory on Wikipedia.

But yeah, if people didn’t speak out because they lacked complete information surrounding an issue, then not only would most conversations be dull, but there would be a huge reduction in scientific advancement because no one would hypothesize anything at all.

On the other hand, stating an opinion or conjecture as fact, or inferring as much (intentionally or not), should be frowned upon with the most disdainful of furrowed brows. Especially on the internet, where it’s a sure-fire way to start a kittenstorm.

cegorach.5624:

On a slightly more serious note, I do wonder if these arguments – if not necessarily dictating a condition of total adherence – do see an online/offline correlation.

If you’re someone who in real life believes that only those who work hard should be rewarded, is that a view you will transpose onto a game and vice versa?

If you believe that everyone deserves an equal chance and should be supported in order to reach their potential, do you apply that to both online and offline activities?

I’d be curious to hear from people who are strongly progressive or conservative in real life but reverse their position in an online game.

I would say dishonesty is the key element found in human nature coming into play here. The OP switches from “rewarded” while he mocks hard work to “supported” while trying to say something vague and apologetic about what he considers the opposing view to be. Theres no question in my mind which side of the fence the OP sits on IRL. This is why he deliberately misconstrues his own position in an attempt to sell it to others.

The word doesen’t magically change from “rewarded” to “supported,” its still a reward were talking about as everyone has an equal opportunity to do what they want in this game along with several other online games that everyone plays by the same rules. The “progressive” position believes in equal rewards for less efforts or dare I say ability. While it sounds great on paper, the whole notion is a fallacy and cannot happen even in a video game.

That being said, game devs are persistantly trying to find new ways to reward those who put in less effort or have less ability in most online games. The result has been less satisfying games across the board for everyone to play and a much expected slump in the entire industry.

People play games to escape reality.

After spending 40 hours a week at a job for pay to receive limited resources to spend on their families needs, let alone any wants and dreams, then maintaining their household of cleaning, upkeep, helping kid with homework, shopping; they then turn to their escapism where they get a chance to feel like they can get ahead and receive a big reward.
You may call it being given a reward for no work but they have been paying for their emotional payoff of fun all week.

cegorach.5624:

zargnath.9524:

IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

Because it’s an online game.

Vakirauta.6397:

cegorach.5624:

zargnath.9524:

IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

Because it’s an online game.

…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.

easy =/= fun

plasmacutter.2709:

Please re-adjust the difficulty of FotM dungeons not to require a new gear tier, and expand upon the concept to add more paths (and reward sets) to existing explorable mode dungeons with tiered difficulty (but NOT tiered gear).

As it stands now, the gear requirement, the fact that it can only be obtained through one aspect of game-play, and the gating of this game-play are fragmenting the community and killing off world-zone play. It is feeding the type of elitism that is reviled by the vast majority of the communities in other MMOs, and introducing fundamental imbalance to pvp.

Gone is the promised reward for helping your lowbie friends. Now you are rewarded for anti-social behavior, such as eschewing your fellow players requests for help to stay in fractals, excluding people who don’t have enough agony resistance or high enough level who look for fractal groups.

Soon you will see people who reach the end of this progression come back out of fractals to farm gold for the next “item batch release” in dynamic events, and they, with superior stats from a new vertical tier ANet promised for ages would never happen, will prevent others who don’t like fractals from properly tagging mobs.

I never thought i’d see this game end up in “Gearscore Land”, but it seems that’s the border we’re crossing right now, and in so doing violating every promise made to this community, and you CAN stop it without harming the playability and re-playability of the content!

Before Anet even attempts to address this, the players can make a difference by ceasing to be ate up about “gear” when they group up in Lion’s Arch for a dungeon. This is GUILD WARS 2, not WORLD of WARCRAFT.

“The best strategies ignore pleas that will hurt the loyal core consumers.”
Only if the loyal core is the minority.

“If they balance around gear rather than skill-based play, it means we are being insulted.
If I have to wear special gear to down an event, I feel like I’ve cheated.
If they build the event around me “cheating”, that makes me feel worse.”

In dungeons there is nothing skillful about bugging through a door, yet EVERY time I’ve ran one of the many dungeons I see constant exploitation occuring, infact I had NEVER done a run of CoF where the group didn’t either exploit through a wall or try to bug out Gaherrons ghost, again if there are skilled GW 2 players, they must be few and far between.

“It’s also fine for ANet though if they only log on 1 week a year. This lowers infrastructure and services costs for ANet proportionally.”

No, its not, many of the cash shop rewards will most likely be used by long term players for more then those whom long on for 1 week out of the year, the cost to maintain the servers exsists regardless of how many players are actually on it. The fact the server itself exsists is what generates the majority of the cost, not that X number of people are on it, its the way bandwidth deals are set up for companies such as this. Infrastructure costs only go down if they cut they, ergo the game itself actually shrinks and servers get merged

“I predict any effort to retain these titles’ target client-base for any significant length of time in the face of titles specifically engineered around this concept will be a losing one, and in the process the market segment they claimed to cater to will have abandoned them in droves.”

I disagree, I think ultimately some people may find GW 2’s art style/gameplay appeals more to them then the game that shall not be named, however in the long term they find that title offers them more to enjoy and is better supports then GW 2, thus why GW 2 will endeavor to catch up.

Lets be honest, Did anyone on the forums think GW 2 was designed assome sort of act of altruism? Do you believe GW 2 was designed just so people can “have fun”? I can’t help but get that impression as I follow the many posts on the boards, but there is a fine line between fun and profit. GW 2 like any other game product wants to make money, because of its lack of a sub, it has to encourage the players to invest in the game overtime, it has to convince you to spend more money on it, rather then pay them just to play it every month. The box sales are important, but as those sales slow down the cash shop and such have to pick up speed to keep those operating costs in check. As such they have to be where the money is at. Its inevitable that people are going to be upset at the choices they make, but as a above poster pointed out, ANet has all the numbers, which I’m sure are more impressive then even a inkling of post counts on these forums. I for one accept the fact that the goal of a MMO is to make money, I accept that if I do not like its current form, I can always leave and maybe come back later. I don’t labour under any illusion that the devs are beholden to my vision of the game and that for all my complaints, at the end of the day

The game needs to make money to persist…

Jairlyn.1429:

People play games to escape reality.

After spending 40 hours a week at a job for pay to receive limited resources to spend on their families needs, let alone any wants and dreams, then maintaining their household of cleaning, upkeep, helping kid with homework, shopping; they then turn to their escapism where they get a chance to feel like they can get ahead and receive a big reward.
You may call it being given a reward for no work but they have been paying for their emotional payoff of fun all week.

I actually feel sorry for these people. What a life that must be.

xero.2097:

“It’s also fine for ANet though if they only log on 1 week a year. This lowers infrastructure and services costs for ANet proportionally.”

No, its not, many of the cash shop rewards will most likely be used by long term players for more then those whom long on for 1 week out of the year

Time and money are like supply and demand. They are inversely related, with the exception of trust fund kids. For the remainder of us, the more time you have the less money you will have to spend on the cash shop. The “dedicated players” will go out and farm for in-game money and never spend a dime in the cash shop. It’s the people who have little time and plenty of money who do this… these are the same client base who signed on because they were promised by ANet that the no-life basment-dwellers would not be given any grounds to arbitrarily exclude them for daring to have a life.

the cost to maintain the servers exsists regardless of how many players are actually on it. The fact the server itself exsists is what generates the majority of the cost, not that X number of people are on it, its the way bandwidth deals are set up for companies such as this. Infrastructure costs only go down if they cut they, ergo the game itself actually shrinks and servers get merged.

How about you spew this outright lie to someone who DOESN’t work in highly-available hosting for fortune 500 firms.

Why are people so upset with GW 2 now?

I frankly don’t get it.

It was only months ago people were having a blast
-Exploring vast stretches of land.
-Running dungeons.
-Working to make legendaries.
-Doing world events.
-PvP
-Leveling Alts, seeing the stories

I ask because I recall these were many of the things cited to do in GW 2 when people explained they were upset that there was “nothing to do at endgame”

From whatI understand, all the above listed things are still there, the only difference is for those whom wish to go to the millstone now have that option.

I do not see how gear progression has taken that away from anyone unless the people doing the above always had a preference for gear progression and as such thats what they are now doing, leaving those whom never wanted gear progression out in the cold so to speak.

Vlaxitov.5693:

Vakirauta.6397:

cegorach.5624:

zargnath.9524:

IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

Because it’s an online game.

…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.

easy =/= fun

Exactly, which is why I hate the idea of gear treadmill. It encourages lazy playstyles in which people overgear encounters in order to overcome them rather than utilize their skill.

I do not see how gear progression has taken that away from anyone

In a game where your ability to deal damage before a mob dies determines your rewards in dynamic events, and where your gear level matters in WvW, it takes away fun from the rest of us.

Inserting vertical progression into a game designed around horizontal progression results in a strange relativistic transformation. They don’t get ahead, YOU get behind. It shows in lower medal rankings in dynamic events, fewer loots, lower magic find rates, and economic disadvantage when it comes time to hit the trading post.

Naoko.7096:

Human nature can never be calculated.
“To feel special” is part of the human nature, no one can deny that.

Let’s have an example.
Scenario 1 : There’s a sports game event that everyone races to the finish line. There are trophies for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd places. The 4th to 9th places received a token of participation.

Scenario 2 : There’s a sports game event that everyone races to the finish line. There are no trophies and winners. All 1st to 9th places received a token of participation.

Which scenario above makes players feel a sense of anticipation and more satisfied?
The obvious answer would be scenario 1. Ask yourself why? It’s because it’s a game. In a game, there are suppose to be both winners and losers. What is a game when everyone is a “winner”? It’s just an illusion to blind people when in fact, there’re no winners and losers. It’s part of human nature to have or achieve something that the rest doesn’t. When they achieve something that the rest doesn’t, they feel special. When everyone achieve the same thing, there’s lesser appeal to the event. There’s no prestige.

Actually the scenario you described is the human condition not human nature. We are constantly being conditioned in society to be better than the person next to us and not to be better than we were before.

Human nature example: Today I ran faster than yesterday. I am better than myself from yesterday.

Human condition example: Today I got first place in a race. I am better than others.

See the difference? It’s hard to nurture human nature without fostering the human condition but not impossible. It does however rely on the person’s personality type.

Naoko.7096:

Another example are the branded items in the real world.
Why do many people go after such stuffs when there’s a cheaper item with the same functionality? Human nature plays a part in this too. When people bought a branded bag that the majority can never afford, they feel a sense of being special. When they wear something with high rarity, they feel rewarded and proved to the public that they have worked hard to earn that amount of money to purchase something “rare”. While not everyone goes after the same thing, the element is still inside us.

This is still the human condition. The idea that I am better than someone else because I have a brand and can show it off. It’s elitism. It’s the ‘haves’ vs ‘the have nots’ and nothing to do with human nature.

Vlaxitov.5693:

Vakirauta.6397:

cegorach.5624:

zargnath.9524:

IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

Because it’s an online game.

…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.

easy =/= fun

Actually what you’ve said is a fallacy. All games are equally as fun as the next, it’s the expectations and how you approach the games that can make them not fun. An easy game can be just as fun as a hard game.

Personal rewards =/= difficulty of play.

plasmacutter.2709:

xero.2097:

“It’s also fine for ANet though if they only log on 1 week a year. This lowers infrastructure and services costs for ANet proportionally.”

No, its not, many of the cash shop rewards will most likely be used by long term players for more then those whom long on for 1 week out of the year

Time and money are like supply and demand. They are inversely related, with the exception of trust fund kids. For the remainder of us, the more time you have the less money you will have to spend on the cash shop. The “dedicated players” will go out and farm for in-game money and never spend a dime in the cash shop. It’s the people who have little time and plenty of money who do this… these are the same client base who signed on because they were promised by ANet that the no-life basment-dwellers would not be given any grounds to arbitrarily exclude them for daring to have a life.

the cost to maintain the servers exsists regardless of how many players are actually on it. The fact the server itself exsists is what generates the majority of the cost, not that X number of people are on it, its the way bandwidth deals are set up for companies such as this. Infrastructure costs only go down if they cut they, ergo the game itself actually shrinks and servers get merged.

How about you spew this outright lie to someone who DOESN’t work in highly-available hosting for fortune 500 firms.

To save embaressing yourself by the fact you felt the urge to pull your “I’m an authority” rabbit out of the hat in addition to a personal attack.

So to be fair I’ll just point out that last I was aware server hosts as still about keeping operating costs low. Your statement above makes me find your credentials highly suspect.

I also wanted to hit upon your first point….why do you think someone who is only going to play the game for 1 week of the year is going to buy vanity items? Or magic find boosters? Do you believe he is going to try and craft a legendary for 1 week out of the year? The cash shop will most likely be used by the most devote of long term players whom consider GW 2 their long term entertainment expenditure, those whom do not will question the expense and will probaly use the gold/gem conversion instead, given their disposable income will most likely be used on a longer term entertainment medium

xero.2097:

plasmacutter.2709:

xero.2097:

“It’s also fine for ANet though if they only log on 1 week a year. This lowers infrastructure and services costs for ANet proportionally.”

No, its not, many of the cash shop rewards will most likely be used by long term players for more then those whom long on for 1 week out of the year

Time and money are like supply and demand. They are inversely related, with the exception of trust fund kids. For the remainder of us, the more time you have the less money you will have to spend on the cash shop. The “dedicated players” will go out and farm for in-game money and never spend a dime in the cash shop. It’s the people who have little time and plenty of money who do this… these are the same client base who signed on because they were promised by ANet that the no-life basment-dwellers would not be given any grounds to arbitrarily exclude them for daring to have a life.

the cost to maintain the servers exsists regardless of how many players are actually on it. The fact the server itself exsists is what generates the majority of the cost, not that X number of people are on it, its the way bandwidth deals are set up for companies such as this. Infrastructure costs only go down if they cut they, ergo the game itself actually shrinks and servers get merged.

How about you spew this outright lie to someone who DOESN’t work in highly-available hosting for fortune 500 firms.

To save embaressing yourself by the fact you felt the urge to pull your “I’m an authority” rabbit out of the hat in addition to a personal attack.

So to be fair I’ll just point out that last I was aware server hosts as still about keeping operating costs low. Your statement above makes me find your credentials highly suspect.

I also wanted to hit upon your first point….why do you think someone who is only going to play the game for 1 week of the year is going to buy vanity items? Or magic find boosters? Do you believe he is going to try and craft a legendary for 1 week out of the year? The cash shop will most likely be used by the most devote of long term players whom consider GW 2 their long term entertainment expenditure, those whom do not will question the expense and will probaly use the gold/gem conversion instead, given their disposable income will most likely be used on a longer term entertainment medium

As opposed to your implicit one in your broad, otherwise-unfounded proclamations? Mine, in fact, happens to be true. I work day in and day out with dedicated datacenter, networking, and client staff. I know for a fact that networking bandwidth does matter, as does server stress, load balancer stress, and connection pooling.

Another baseless declaration that someone who works for a living will not shell out for the cash shop? You then back up your assertion by stating that someone who doesn’t have a great deal of time to play will convert gold to gems? What gold? they don’t have time to farm! Where is the logic?

Ohmicide.5478:

I think that people are more angry about the fact that the devs stated on numerous occasions that there would be no gear grind. This is like your teaching giving you a surprise final exam half way through the course.

How can people expect to not have to grind for gear? Do they think that you just have to run a dungeon one time and get the whole set?

Dogs work to get rewards, humans (should) work to achieve things they personally think has some form of value, either to themselves or to others. The thought process that’s applied to a game, is vastly different from the problems in the “real world”. Although it is possible to draw parallels to some things. The way we act in a game is often a result of bottled up feelings, that comes from what we experience in our lives. Or a means to act out in a way that we normally aren’t allowed to. In many ways, games are a great psychological tool that can either help us get rid of unwanted emotions, or seek emotions that makes us feel good. But who we are on the internet, or in a game, is never a direct opposite to whom we are in the real world, unless we act apart of curse. It’s just that the lines of who we really are, and who we want others to think we are, becomes blurred on the internet. Because there’re no real consequences to the way we act online, we feel more inclined to act out on our inner emotions. But those emotions are still part of who we are.

Alright, first off, just because you say you are on the internet does not make it so, theres a good reason why you NEVER claim to be a professional in a field to try and validate your arguement by claiming to be an authority, because it ultimately is something you could realistically not prove without making yourself explicitly vulnerable, as I’m certain a man/woman of your expertise would know. That being said I already outlined the cost cutting measures that would have to take place to reduce overhead, which as such would result in less bandwidth usage. In simple terms, you’d reduce the overall pipe of information flowing into servers WHEN you consolidate them.

Again with the attacks,

The delcaration that someone who works for a living will not shell out for the cash shop. The majority of people whom work for a living will not have time to get use out of the money they would spend on a fantasy world…to quote yourself “time is money” cuts both ways, you don’t spend money on something you will not have the time to enjoy. To further my point the player who is playing on limited time WILL acquire money through the simple act of playing, which he/she will then use that gold to augment his/her playing experience be that through gear purchase or coverting to gems.

You really need to calm down.

The logic is simple….why would I buy something I’ll hardly use?

Merthax.5172:

This is a false comparison. Real life careers aren’t “grindy” by design, it is simply how it must be. You produce a product or perform a service for money. This is simply how life works due to things like supply and demand. Companies generally don’t add grind (busy work) for the sake of keeping you busy, they want value-added work from their employees.

Real life is grindy by design. It’s necessary for government to keep the population in a situation where they can earn just enough to live but not enough to work less. Supply and demand is a myth as well. I can guarantee that the ‘demand’ is for lower prices but are you being supplied with that? The economy is not based on supply and demand, its based on social extortion. You are put in a situation where you need essential items. Food, Housing, Taxation, Fuel. Competition and lack of money drop prices not lack of demand.

RoChan.1926:

Actually the scenario you described is the human condition not human nature. We are constantly being conditioned in society to be better than the person next to us and not to be better than we were before.

Human nature example: Today I ran faster than yesterday. I am better than myself from yesterday.

Human condition example: Today I got first place in a race. I am better than others.

See the difference? It’s hard to nurture human nature without fostering the human condition but not impossible. It does however rely on the person’s personality type.

The need for self-satisfaction and the nature of greed is still part of human nature.

E.g. A poor child can feel so much happiness with just being donated a bread. The same happiness feel by a rich woman who just spent a thousand bucks on a branded bag. People who have tasted something, will want to taste something bigger to achieve the same happiness. Once they tasted something bigger, they want to taste something even bigger to achieve the same happiness. The human greed is endless. As we go higher, our “needs” to fill up the sense of satisfactory increases. That’s why progression is needed. A bigger goal/rewards after another goal/rewards. (Goal sized 1 achieved -> Goal sized 4 achieved -> Goal sized 7 achieved -> Goal sized 12 achieved).

The human need to feel special is part of human nature too. Everyone has a form of “adhd” in us, no matter how shy the person is. We want to stand out in phases of our life. This is why we develop skills for ourselves that the majority do not have. We pursue our strengths and prove ourselves useful in real life by default. It’s deep within our sub-conscious. It’s not a human condition where it’s influenced by a culture or environment. It’s a nature to seek attention in parts of our lives, no matter which environments we grow up in. This human nature can be evidently be seen even when we were just born. Babies and toddlers cry because we seek attention from our parents. To “seek attention and be noticed” is a human nature that’s born inside everyone.

xero.2097:

Alright, first off, just because you say you are on the internet does not make it so, theres a good reason why you NEVER claim to be a professional in a field to try and validate your arguement by claiming to be an authority, because it ultimately is something you could realistically not prove without making yourself explicitly vulnerable, as I’m certain a man/woman of your expertise would know. That being said I already outlined the cost cutting measures that would have to take place to reduce overhead, which as such would result in less bandwidth usage. In simple terms, you’d reduce the overall pipe of information flowing into servers WHEN you consolidate them.

Again with the attacks,

The delcaration that someone who works for a living will not shell out for the cash shop. The majority of people whom work for a living will not have time to get use out of the money they would spend on a fantasy world…to quote yourself “time is money” cuts both ways, you don’t spend money on something you will not have the time to enjoy. To further my point the player who is playing on limited time WILL acquire money through the simple act of playing, which he/she will then use that gold to augment his/her playing experience be that through gear purchase or coverting to gems.

You really need to calm down.

The logic is simple….why would I buy something I’ll hardly use?

Tell that to ralph lauren and his car collection.

And you keep right on just declaring things as if you are imbued with divine powers, the cynically trying to pawn off the idea that i’m “arguing from authority”?

I can see why other people ignore you in your supreme intellectual dishonesty.

Naoko.7096:

E.g. A poor child can feel so much happiness with just being donated a bread. The same happiness feel by a rich woman who just spent a thousand bucks on a branded bag. People who have tasted something, will want to taste something bigger to achieve the same happiness. Once they tasted something bigger, they want to taste something even bigger to achieve the same happiness. The human greed is endless. As we go higher, our “needs” to fill up the sense of satisfactory increases. .

Sorry but that is simply not true, a lot of people do not need bigger and better to achieve happiness. I certainly don’t. Greed is largely a social disease. You must have this you must have that. People want to be one of the have’s so they dont feel excluded by their peers. Cant be part of the conversation about the latest ps3 game if you dont have one, and so on and so on. Society is encouraged to ‘want’ in order to keep people consuming. Consuming drives the economy.

xero.2097:

Why are people so upset with GW 2 now?

I frankly don’t get it.

It was only months ago people were having a blast
-Exploring vast stretches of land.
-Running dungeons.
-Working to make legendaries.
-Doing world events.
-PvP
-Leveling Alts, seeing the stories

I ask because I recall these were many of the things cited to do in GW 2 when people explained they were upset that there was “nothing to do at endgame”

From whatI understand, all the above listed things are still there, the only difference is for those whom wish to go to the millstone now have that option.

I do not see how gear progression has taken that away from anyone unless the people doing the above always had a preference for gear progression and as such thats what they are now doing, leaving those whom never wanted gear progression out in the cold so to speak.

Because I now must grind gear to enjoy WvWvW. I don’t like getting curb stomped by players with 20-50% better gear.

zallis.2138:

Ohmicide.5478:

I think that people are more angry about the fact that the devs stated on numerous occasions that there would be no gear grind. This is like your teaching giving you a surprise final exam half way through the course.

How can people expect to not have to grind for gear? Do they think that you just have to run a dungeon one time and get the whole set?

Because I never had to in GW1 and because I was told I could get the best gear in ways that I prefer – I hate dungeons.

Saidor.7028:

Naoko.7096:

E.g. A poor child can feel so much happiness with just being donated a bread. The same happiness feel by a rich woman who just spent a thousand bucks on a branded bag. People who have tasted something, will want to taste something bigger to achieve the same happiness. Once they tasted something bigger, they want to taste something even bigger to achieve the same happiness. The human greed is endless. As we go higher, our “needs” to fill up the sense of satisfactory increases. .

Sorry but that is simply not true, a lot of people do not need bigger and better to achieve happiness. I certainly don’t. Greed is largely a social disease. You must have this you must have that. People want to be one of the have’s so they dont feel excluded by their peers. Cant be part of the conversation about the latest ps3 game if you dont have one, and so on and so on. Society is encouraged to ‘want’ in order to keep people consuming. Consuming drives the economy.

You’re not alone. Some people feel they “don’t have” because they’ve not achieve much in life to level-up the “satisfaction-needs” capacity inside them. Happiness is scaled depending on humans needs capacity from how much they had achieved. As I pointed out with the earlier scenario, “human satisfactory-needs to feel happiness” grows as they progresses higher. Different people have different ways to satisfy their needs, which is why you’ve not realised that part of nature is inside you.

Human greed is not necessary a social disease nor a bad thing. Yes, it can impact negatively under the wrong path. But without it, humans have no need for progression. They wouldn’t keep improving the quality of living. We wouldn’t have high technologies. The world won’t progresses. Greed has always been part of everyone, but different people go through it with different paths.

There’re limitless examples. In mmos, greed is already part of everyone. It can be seen how players want something new each time. When we play the same content repetitively, we naturally get bored right? That is because our human nature urges our mind to seek new experience. Once we tasted it few or several times, we want naturally want something else refreshing or better. This is also part of the human nature of greed. If greed doesn’t exists, players would be able to repeat the same content a million times and still feel the same level of happiness after each repeated rounds. It’s in-born inside us.