Guild Wars 2

I am liberal in the sense that I want reasonable government protecting the minorities from dictations from people who already “got theirs and want even more”, but when it comes to gaming I do think that if you want a legendary then you must work for it.

That being said, I don’t want a legendary nor do I personally want infused armors, but that does NOT mean I won’t be vocal when I see an injustice.

The injustice I’m seeing in this game is that their model for the fractals flies in the face of everything we were told this game would be and the reasons why this game would have a more horizontal progression model was due to people having responsibilities and RL concerns.

reducing drops to mere nothing, keeping people from using the expensive magic find sets by breaking them, forcing people to run long drawn out dungeon runs to get anything for drops, making the fractals so important that people aren’t even doing Orr content anymore to free the temples, making the infused armor nothing like the original infused armors in GW1 by adding higher stats to them…..ALL of this is in the direction opposite from what we were told this game would be in their interviews and manifesto. ALL of it.

So, It’s not so much they added gear …fine add another tier. But keep the game horizontal.

Make the new gear craftable or remove the stats….simple.

Make drops what they were when the game launched so people can continue to farm what they need, why am I being forced to run dungeons to get ANY drops at all?

Make the magic find stat actually work properly AND affect all chests.

Make chests scale to the level of the person finding them when opened.

All of these simple things will bring the game back around to what made it what they described in their manifesto. That’s why we’re angry. I could personally care less that there’s a shiny, what I don’t like is they’ve bottlenecked the progression to only 1 play style and they’re making this game a job and not a game.

Its not that simple OP. Most people in the world arent extremists like both ends of the spectrum want you to believe. Most people are moderate. they believe in working hard and earning but also believe in merit as well as charity and helping those less fortunate. The game should have an option for everyone but alas they have basically pullekittent Romney and sold out to the powers that be. They will also start losing players for the same reason and probably wind up blaming the players for their shortcomings like he did too.

a player told me this:

I got to have over 500 hours into the game and I haven’t seen many of the old dungeons paths yet! But the problem is if you fall behind on the fractals dungeon and the community out paces you in difficulty level, you have problems finding a group. So many people are sort of afraid to get off the hamster wheel at the moment.

….

FEAR

thats what drives human…

fractals are weird, because its a hamster wheel and people dont want to benleft behind.

im actually “ok” with adding ascended gear.
but making fractals the only place to be for elitists players is just not healthy for the game.
players complain, but still do it….
is it how WoW succeded ??

Leonard.2867:

Sky.1623:

Leonard.2867:

Why did you make this statement? Who was it directed at? What are you referring to?

OP is weighing his personal opinions vs what Anet did. We have access to none of the information they have. It seems dumb to ask them to change something because you don’t like the precedent when we’re not going to talk about all the positive and negative effects on the game.

If I am not mistaken, 90% of the threads on in ‘Guild Wars 2 Discussion’ do this. Does it seem dumb now? Columbus once said the World is round…. what an opinion he had!

Please don’t pull up broken analogies, you’re going to get me started . . . Christopher Columbus said the world was round and completely misinterpreted how large it was. Not even going to touch on how the ancient Grecian philosophers knew the Earth was round anyway.

Columba.9730:

xero.2097:

Why are people so upset with GW 2 now?

I frankly don’t get it.

It was only months ago people were having a blast
-Exploring vast stretches of land.
-Running dungeons.
-Working to make legendaries.
-Doing world events.
-PvP
-Leveling Alts, seeing the stories

I ask because I recall these were many of the things cited to do in GW 2 when people explained they were upset that there was “nothing to do at endgame”

From whatI understand, all the above listed things are still there, the only difference is for those whom wish to go to the millstone now have that option.

I do not see how gear progression has taken that away from anyone unless the people doing the above always had a preference for gear progression and as such thats what they are now doing, leaving those whom never wanted gear progression out in the cold so to speak.

Because I now must grind gear to enjoy WvWvW. I don’t like getting curb stomped by players with 20-50% better gear.

And I don’t enjoy being curb stomped by people with better computers than me, but I don’t feel I have to “grind” in real life to afford a better computer to still get stomped.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Columba.9730:

xero.2097:

Why are people so upset with GW 2 now?

I frankly don’t get it.

It was only months ago people were having a blast
-Exploring vast stretches of land.
-Running dungeons.
-Working to make legendaries.
-Doing world events.
-PvP
-Leveling Alts, seeing the stories

I ask because I recall these were many of the things cited to do in GW 2 when people explained they were upset that there was “nothing to do at endgame”

From whatI understand, all the above listed things are still there, the only difference is for those whom wish to go to the millstone now have that option.

I do not see how gear progression has taken that away from anyone unless the people doing the above always had a preference for gear progression and as such thats what they are now doing, leaving those whom never wanted gear progression out in the cold so to speak.

Because I now must grind gear to enjoy WvWvW. I don’t like getting curb stomped by players with 20-50% better gear.

And I don’t enjoy being curb stomped by people with better computers than me, but I don’t feel I have to “grind” in real life to afford a better computer to still get stomped.

first, computer specs needed are disclosed before you purchased. secondly, that is outside the control of the game.

Columba.9730:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Columba.9730:

xero.2097:

Why are people so upset with GW 2 now?

I frankly don’t get it.

It was only months ago people were having a blast
-Exploring vast stretches of land.
-Running dungeons.
-Working to make legendaries.
-Doing world events.
-PvP
-Leveling Alts, seeing the stories

I ask because I recall these were many of the things cited to do in GW 2 when people explained they were upset that there was “nothing to do at endgame”

From whatI understand, all the above listed things are still there, the only difference is for those whom wish to go to the millstone now have that option.

I do not see how gear progression has taken that away from anyone unless the people doing the above always had a preference for gear progression and as such thats what they are now doing, leaving those whom never wanted gear progression out in the cold so to speak.

Because I now must grind gear to enjoy WvWvW. I don’t like getting curb stomped by players with 20-50% better gear.

And I don’t enjoy being curb stomped by people with better computers than me, but I don’t feel I have to “grind” in real life to afford a better computer to still get stomped.

first, computer specs needed are disclosed before you purchased. secondly, that is outside the control of the game.

First, I was within the specs disclosed as of BW3. After release I was not within specs, still can’t figure out how since everyone is telling me the specs never changed.

Secondly, it is outside the control of gear. The game still controls it, and it’s still a grind because every year hardware goes up in power and potency and more expensive. If I want to remain competitive then I have to keep buying new computer gear to keep up with everyone else.

(Yes, it sounds ludicrous, doesn’t it? But it’s the same argument, and it happens to be able to be proven.)

Yet, they didn’t change the specs post purchase.

Columba.9730:

Yet, they didn’t change the specs post purchase.

Yet, doesn’t matter, I’m still getting the startup telling me my hardware is under minimum specifications.

Again, this seems a far better analogy than the current discussion, doesn’t it?

Grinding for stats was rejected in the design manifesto. If you like gear grinding, good for you, but some people came to this game because its developers had declared grinding would not be here.

You can justify the gear grind as much as you like or declare your inability to conceive of a game that doesn’t have it (despite the fact that you were playing one up until the update), but I can assure you with the utmost confidence that if someone says they do not want it, then they do not want it. They were told that this was a place where they would not get it. Those people were lied to.

I’ll belabour the point because it’s either being missed or ignored; the design manifesto said this: …if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun…

Manifestos are not something to be taken lightly because when they’re made they call on people to support the cause that the document declares for, usually by placing a great deal of in trust in one another towards the common interest.

If you don’t know what a manifesto is, look it up. Examples include the GNU Manifesto and The United States Declaration of Independence.

Munrock.3092:

If you don’t know what a manifesto is, look it up. Examples include the GNU Manifesto and The United States Declaration of Independence.

Can we not bring the Declaration of Independence into this? That may open a can of political worms I really think would derail this topic harshly.

Munrock.3092:

I’ll belabour the point because it’s either being missed or ignored; the design manifesto said this: …if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun….

The manifesto also said this.
“If you love mmo, you should check out Guild Wars 2…”
Link: http://youtu.be/35BPhT-KI1E?t=42s

It means, they already intended for the game to appeals for people who love traditional mmos too. In my perception, guild wars 2 is not really trying to be a full guild wars 1 game but a totally new game that appeals all kinds of players. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Imo, they still sticked to their manifesto that “it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun”. We don’t need ascended gears to experience new contents like the Fractals. In fact, we don’t even need rares or exotics. A level 80 with exotics and a Lv40 with masterpieces can experience the fun of Fractals. I seen a level 17 player enter the fractals and succeeded. Majority of players in WvWvW are wearing masterpiece gears (I wear exotic for pve and masterpiece for WvWvW because of different builts and have no problem too.) Players are not gated from fun content. The purpose why people avoided gear treadmill is because in previous mmos, you’re gated from fun content right? In this game, gears are just a bonus. You can have access to “fun” with any tiers. Gw2 is the only mmo which I feel that you can experience 100% content very easily.

If players don’t want gear progression, then they can stick to your current gear without problems of being gated from fun content (gears are not fun content, they are merely bonus rewards). If they don’t want gear progression because they want to be at “max stats”, it means they’re actually fond of gear progression inside their them. If not, they wouldn’t be eager/greed to go for the max stats.

Saidor.7028:

Faze.6948:

cegorach.5624:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

cegorach.5624:

Now I am a foreigner, so be aware that most of my posts use sardonic humour that is nigh undetectable by many populations.

Foreign to what?

We’re all foreigners.

He probably means “not a native speaker of English”?

I mean foreign as in ‘Americans often get really, really angry when they can’t tell that I am taking the mickey’

Indeed. Make no mistake that British wit, ubiquitous to natives of the UK, goes about 50/50 in the US, where 50% think you’re a prolific source of razor sharp one-liners and the other 50% think you’re an irritating, condescending twat.

.

Yeah but that last 50% think that nascar is cool.

Hey leave us nascaar fans out of this, and stay on topic. :-D

The new Ascended gear aside, the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry.

Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

THIS is the biggest issue with the last patch, not the stats (Not that I don’t think the stats are ALSO a problem, just not NEARLY as big of a problem as this!)

plasmacutter.2709:

The new Ascended gear aside, the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry.

Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

THIS is the biggest issue with the last patch, not the stats (Not that I don’t think the stats are ALSO a problem, just not NEARLY as big of a problem as this!)

Agreed. Very much agreed, the conduct going on with the LFG elitism is aggravating the issue

RoChan.1926:

Vlaxitov.5693:

…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.

easy =/= fun

RoChan.1926:

Actually what you’ve said is a fallacy. All games are equally as fun as the next, it’s the expectations and how you approach the games that can make them not fun. An easy game can be just as fun as a hard game.

Personal rewards =/= difficulty of play.

So you’re basically saying that all games are created equal and as long as I approach Candyland with the mentality of a 4 year old that it can be just as fun as Risk while calling what I said fallacious? Oh the irony..

No, its not how you approach a game that makes it fun. That might help contribute to it being fun but in the end its either fun or not for other reasons than “my approach.”

Then you come through with a total strawman that personal rewards =/= difficulty of play. That notion is also a fallacy because video games have been keeping score pretty much ever since video games have existed. Almost all games keep score. High score in pacman or tetris is nothing more than a personal reward and it definately relates directly to the difficulty of play. I don’t know who you think you’re fooling.

Its only been the more recent mmos that have brough about a line of thinking that this genre of game is really all about messaging the players ego by providing a game environment that makes believe that even the guy who doesen’t have the hand eye coordination to play mary had a little lamb on a fisher price toy piano nor the attention span of a gnat is still winning like charlie sheen at video games.

Game makers (particularly mmos developers) still being in the business of making money are doing that I think begrudgingly out of necessity ever since the genre became mega commercialized. People like you who come to their forums and try to say things like “rewards =/= challenge therefore challenge =/= fun” are their new target audience. Sad times for actual gamers.

Vlaxitov.5693:

RoChan.1926:

Vlaxitov.5693:

…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.

easy =/= fun

RoChan.1926:

Actually what you’ve said is a fallacy. All games are equally as fun as the next, it’s the expectations and how you approach the games that can make them not fun. An easy game can be just as fun as a hard game.

Personal rewards =/= difficulty of play.

So you’re basically saying that all games are created equal and as long as I approach Candyland with the mentality of a 4 year old that it can be just as fun as Risk while calling what I said fallacious? Oh the irony..

No, its not how you approach a game that makes it fun. That might help contribute to it being fun but in the end its either fun or not for other reasons than “my approach.”

Then you come through with a total strawman that personal rewards =/= difficulty of play. That notion is also a fallacy because video games have been keeping score pretty much ever since video games have existed. Almost all games keep score. High score in pacman or tetris is nothing more than a personal reward and it definately relates directly to the difficulty of play. I don’t know who you think you’re fooling.

Its only been the more recent mmos that have brough about a line of thinking that this genre of game is really all about messaging the players ego by providing a game environment that makes believe that even the guy who doesen’t have the hand eye coordination to play mary had a little lamb on a fisher price toy piano nor the attention span of a gnat is still winning like charlie sheen at video games.

Game makers (particularly mmos developers) still being in the business of making money are doing that I think begrudgingly out of necessity ever since the genre became mega commercialized. People like you who come to their forums and try to say things like “rewards =/= challenge therefore challenge =/= fun” are their new target audience. Sad times for actual gamers.

Noooo, what they said was Candyland can be as fun as Risk. Not necessarily to you. and not in the same times. I mean, unless it was like a couple buddies of mine who decided it would be hilarious to drag it out with a bottle of rum and shotglasses.

. . . come to think of it, that did make that pretty fun. More fun than the last time I played Risk.

So yeah, it kind of is how you approach a game which is going to determine if you have fun. “Let’s get piss drunk and play Candyland” versus “oh God not Risk again . . . just put it away, we know who’s winning that . . . again”. One of those times I will very likely not have fun while the other it’s more likely I’ll have fun. At least until I sober up, then I will wonder what possessed me to do that.

And sure, there are outside problems which can contribute to a game not being fun. Like your dog running off with the dice. Your buddy knocking the board and jumbling up how many armies were on the board and where they were during a tense Risk standoff. A really really pissed off card gamer flipping the table.

Is Candyland or Chutes and Ladders the same level of play as Monopoly or Risk? Heck no. Does that mean they can’t be fun? . . . if you said yes, please tell me why.

Also, there are a couple games that don’t keep a high score and are just “did you finish?” The Dragon Quest series, the Final Fantasy series, UFO: Enemy Unknown, Pokemon . . . I’ll name one more for good measure. Portal. For extra credit, Ultima 4. (It’s freeware now, I recommend it so long as you can put up with ancient graphics) Video games don’t have to keep score anymore. Heck even Mega Man stopped that after the first game.

Rewarding does not mean challenging, but the reverse doesn’t hold true. A challenging game can be rewarding in the sense of “I finally beat Ninja Gaiden” or “Thank God I don’t have to play any more Battletoads.” But a challenging game doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fun either. (See: Deadly Towers. Yes. I owned it once, because it was 50 cents at a used store. I still feel cheated.)

I play games if they’re fun or until I get bored with them, then I move on to the next thing. Right now, it’s Guild Wars 2 and some other stupid game about playing with blocks. Craftmine or something. Next it’ll be something different, and I’ll eventually get bored with that and move on too.

Naoko.7096:

It means, they already intended for the game to appeals for people who love traditional mmos too.

Does this appeal to you?

Colin Johanson, Arenanet Lead Content Designer on GW2 Approach to Gear:

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

This is an approach to gear based on stat cap and differentiators based on cosmetics not stats. Arenanet said many times pre and post launch that they would have max stat gear and any new gear would be same stats but different looks. Arenanet explained that Exotics represented the max stat gear. They have many different Exotics with different looks and degrees of difficulty to obtain (easy to longer/harder). Many of us read their marketing and bought the product because they said it would not be based on “gear” progression mechanics.

How would you feel if you bought WOW and 3 months later they removed raids to appeal to their more “casual” players?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

The new Ascended gear aside, the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry.

Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

THIS is the biggest issue with the last patch, not the stats (Not that I don’t think the stats are ALSO a problem, just not NEARLY as big of a problem as this!)

Agreed. Very much agreed, the conduct going on with the LFG elitism is aggravating the issue

This is the warning many of us were trying to share. Said it before, the vertical progression approach seems to attract nasty people or bring out the worse in some people. Yes, you can have jerks in a horizontal progression based game but they tend not to stay long (no griefing, no way to feel superior to others because everyone has the best gear).

dalendria.3762:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

The new Ascended gear aside, the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry.

Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

THIS is the biggest issue with the last patch, not the stats (Not that I don’t think the stats are ALSO a problem, just not NEARLY as big of a problem as this!)

Agreed. Very much agreed, the conduct going on with the LFG elitism is aggravating the issue

This is the warning many of us were trying to share. Said it before, the vertical progression approach seems to attract nasty people or bring out the worse in some people. Yes, you can have jerks in a horizontal progression based game but they tend not to stay long (no griefing, no way to feel superior to others because everyone has the best gear).

They were around before this Fractals/Ascended thing and were the reason I stayed the heck out of dungeons. I’m not the best player and those places were what attracted the type who are not shy about kicking you if they don’t like how you are working out. Now they moved to Fractals. Mostly.

But they’re not the issue. I’ll deal with it the same way I did the dungeons – get the guild together one night and go to it.

The issue is now the effect on the community.

Human beings have an inherent need to compete, it’s part of why we exist. Without struggle of some kind, in some form, you become complacent (regressive). We don’t reward all olympic athletes with gold medals because there needs to be something that seperates those who have acheived a higher level of performance from those who haven’t. We don’t call gold medalists “elitists” do we? On top of recieving medals, they get endorsements, publicity and all kinds of cash and prizes. That’s what drives them to compete.

Most games by their very nature promote competition in some form. You won’t sustain many players if they feel like everything is easy/reachable by the lowest common denominator. Even if they enjoy the content, eventually they’ll move on after becoming bored.

I see the term “fun” thrown around a lot. Well, a lot of people have “fun” through being competative, directly and/or indirectly. Gear stats provide a tangible benefit to people in game, which is why they have always been so valued.

I’m not arguing for or against the recent changes Anet made to the game, but I understand why.

dalendria.3762:

Does this appeal to you?

Colin Johanson, Arenanet Lead Content Designer on GW2 Approach to Gear:

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

This is an approach to gear based on stat cap and differentiators based on cosmetics not stats. Arenanet said many times pre and post launch that they would have max stat gear and any new gear would be same stats but different looks. Arenanet explained that Exotics represented the max stat gear. They have many different Exotics with different looks and degrees of difficulty to obtain (easy to longer/harder). Many of us read their marketing and bought the product because they said it would not be based on “gear” progression mechanics.

How would you feel if you bought WOW and 3 months later they removed raids to appeal to their more “casual” players?

Their manifesto looks like it’s some of you who are the ones misinterpreting. >_<

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best.”

The rarest items at the moment and before the 15th November, is the “legendary tier”. Before the 15th, they have the same stats as the exotic. After the 15th, they have the same stats as the ascended. They still have sticked to their manifesto that their legendary tier is not above the stats of ascended, which is the current max stats item. Remember that it only apply to the “rarest”, nor “rarer”. That means it’ll only apply to the rarest tier, the legendary.

If it’s what some of the “rage players” interpreted, then there won’t be any needs for the five tiers of basic to exotic in the beginning. The game would only offer you one tier with the same stats for the whole gameplay during launch.

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional”

There… they had said it. This means, they’ve intended to make it, but it’s optional. Unlike most mmorpgs, you must have gear X to experience content X. In gw2, you can experience all 100% contents with any gear tier without a problem of being gated.

In my perspective, I interpreted it this way. >_<
I mean… why would players go after max stats when they can play the game (not gated from any fun content) with any tiers? It’s a part of human nature. People automatically go after the best stuffs. It really shows in their heart, they really like to chase after the best gears. This is why the game has to have this kind of progression to keep players anticipated and increase their player online concurrency.

Shidoshi.4197:

Human beings have an inherent need to compete, it’s part of why we exist. Without struggle of some kind, in some form, you become complacent (regressive). We don’t reward all olympic athletes with gold medals because there needs to be something that seperates those who have acheived a higher level of performance from those who haven’t. We don’t call gold medalists “elitists” do we? On top of recieving medals, they get endorsements, publicity and all kinds of cash and prizes. That’s what drives them to compete.

Most games by their very nature promote competition in some form. You won’t sustain many players if they feel like everything is easy/reachable by the lowest common denominator. Even if they enjoy the content, eventually they’ll move on after becoming bored.

I see the term “fun” thrown around a lot. Well, a lot of people have “fun” through being competative, directly and/or indirectly. Gear stats provide a tangible benefit to people in game, which is why they have always been so valued.

I’m not arguing for or against the recent changes Anet made to the game, but I understand why.

I like to compete against other people, not against dungeon grinds.

Naoko.7096:

dalendria.3762:

Does this appeal to you?

Colin Johanson, Arenanet Lead Content Designer on GW2 Approach to Gear:

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

This is an approach to gear based on stat cap and differentiators based on cosmetics not stats. Arenanet said many times pre and post launch that they would have max stat gear and any new gear would be same stats but different looks. Arenanet explained that Exotics represented the max stat gear. They have many different Exotics with different looks and degrees of difficulty to obtain (easy to longer/harder). Many of us read their marketing and bought the product because they said it would not be based on “gear” progression mechanics.

How would you feel if you bought WOW and 3 months later they removed raids to appeal to their more “casual” players?

Their manifesto looks like it’s some of you who are the ones misinterpreting. >_<

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best.”

The rarest items at the moment and before the 15th November, is the “legendary tier”. Before the 15th, they have the same stats as the exotic. After the 15th, they have the same stats as the ascended. They still have sticked to their manifesto that their legendary tier is not above the stats of ascended, which is the current max stats item. Remember that it only apply to the “rarest”, nor “rarer”. That means it’ll only apply to the rarest tier, the legendary.

If it’s what some of the “rage players” interpreted, then there won’t be any needs for the five tiers of basic to exotic in the beginning. The game would only offer you one tier with the same stats for the whole gameplay during launch.

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional”

There… they had said it. This means, they’ve intended to make it, but it’s optional. Unlike most mmorpgs, you must have gear X to experience content X. In gw2, you can experience all 100% contents with any gear tier without a problem of being gated.

In my perspective, I interpreted it this way. >_<
I mean… why would players go after max stats when they can play the game (not gated from any fun content) with any tiers? It’s a part of human nature. People automatically go after the best stuffs. It really shows in their heart, they really like to chase after the best gears. This is why the game has to have this kind of progression to keep players anticipated and increase their player online concurrency.

Unless you enjoy getting curb stomped in wvwvw, it’s not optional. 20-50% better stats aren’t optional. they are mandatory, and the ONLY way to get them now is to grind dungeons, which many of us hate.

If you’re someone who in real life believes that only those who work hard should be rewarded, is that a view you will transpose onto a game and vice versa?

If you believe that everyone deserves an equal chance and should be supported in order to reach their potential, do you apply that to both online and offline activities?

Everyone deserves an equal chance to earn their keep… if people don’t want to earn something they shouldn’t have it.

So, releasing new content that requires players to attain certain items, to play newer content… would be like saying you have to get a college degree to earn a decent income and live a good life.

Except I have no college degree (and thus no debt) and am making decent money so I’ve still earned a fairly good life. So why can I not put time into the game to earn access to newer content without having to get this stupid ascended gear? Because people like you love to label the world black and white – and developers accept those common views rather than think realistically and NOT lock future content away from those who don’t want to gear grind.

Columba.9730:

Unless you enjoy getting curb stomped in wvwvw, it’s not optional. 20-50% better stats aren’t optional. they are mandatory, and the ONLY way to get them now is to grind dungeons, which many of us hate.

Yes. 20-50% in “character stats” but in actual combat, it’s actually only 3~7% increase.
Every 20pts increment from the “previous stats” is 1% increment in actual combat.

This is why I don’t mind using masterwork for WvWvW and pve magic-find farming. The only exotic/ascended set I be using is for dungeons and boss dynamic event battles. I keep 3 sets and there’s really not much difference among them. The exotic only gives the positive illusion and a form of assurance.

I understand it’s part of human nature to be worried and anxious whether another with better gear can defeat you more easier. But there’s really not much to worry because they’re not so much stronger until it requires 2-3 times more effort to kill like the other mmorpgs. Gw2 has still one of the most balance pvp among mmorpgs.

It’s also part of human nature that if we defeat a player supposing with better “stats” than us, we will feel more satisfaction and greater sense of achievement.

I didnt see anyone yelling when we ran AC or COF 50 times for gear. And the fractal gear still isnt as good as legendary stuff, so whats the big deal.

also wondering if alot of you cried this much when you found out your parents lied to you about Santa clause. what did you do then? you grew a sack and got your own presents

Casca Longinus.3168:

I didnt see anyone yelling when we ran AC or COF 50 times for gear. And the fractal gear still isnt as good as legendary stuff, so whats the big deal.

Because the people who ran AC 50 times were not running it becuase it was the ONLY source for the best gear. They also had other dungeons, crafting, world events, karma, various PVP and on and on.

People who ran those dungeons were there specifically for the armor skins and the actual pleasure of doing the dungeon. Because the desire for armor skins is entirely subjective, it usually ended up with people going to different dungeons.

Fractals are the ONLY source for this gear. It’s resulted in most people feeling their characters are “incomplete” stat-wise and compelled to do these monstrosities until they reach competitive par again for WvW. If the gear itself were spread equally across all game content, you’d have a LOT less gripe, and you’d probably see a lot less people in fractals because their gating design encourages elitist and exclusionary behavior, and the “agony” mechanic rewards stacking of an arbitrary resist over skilled play.

No other dungeon system that i’ve ever seen has resulted in 20 people standing in the same place searching for people for the exact same dungeon, but not going there with one another because the gating system was that byzantine.

As for the people arguing about being “competitive”…. Are you saying a full set of Arah exotic skins on your toon doesn’t say something about you? You can make yourself “elite” without ANet handing you a statistical advantage over WvW opponents or rewarding you in dungeons for simply stacking agony resist.

Op that got to political for me on this forum even though it was pretty good…

I think there are two choices for the game. Have progressive stats or have tons of gear variations in terms of looks. Since one of GW’s things was horizontal vs vertical in stats, the game should have had 1000’s of variations in equipment look. That would be the carrot and yes you do need one for many playing a mmo. But a looks slanted view doesn’t imbalance the game but still adds nice re-playability for many. Looks also give an individual their unique look which I’ve found in many mmo’s players prefer. In GW2, it’s pretty basic, too basic.

Having neither is pretty darn boring, the game borders on being boring in these two areas. Even though there is progression, it’s not amazing and all about that. Even though there are different looks, there aren’t that many.

Horrorscope.7632:

Op that got to political for me on this forum even though it was pretty good…

I think there are two choices for the game. Have progressive stats or have tons of gear variations in terms of looks. Since one of GW’s things was horizontal vs vertical in stats, the game should have had 1000’s of variations in equipment look. That would be the carrot and yes you do need one for many playing a mmo. But a looks slanted view doesn’t imbalance the game but still adds nice re-playability for many. Looks also give an individual their unique look which I’ve found in many mmo’s players prefer. In GW2, it’s pretty basic, too basic.

Having neither is pretty darn boring, the game borders on being boring in these two areas. Even though there is progression, it’s not amazing and all about that. Even though there are different looks, there aren’t that many.

I counted at least 25 different, coherent armor sets for light armor alone, and ANet made commitments to expand upon those.

BTW: there are not much more than that in WoW for clothies (please don’t count re-colors of the same skin…).. and that’s a 10 year old game with 4 major expansions.

Vlaxitov.5693:

Vakirauta.6397:

cegorach.5624:

zargnath.9524:

IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

Because it’s an online game.

…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.

easy =/= fun

True, but boring is definitely not fun.

plasmacutter.2709:

Horrorscope.7632:

Op that got to political for me on this forum even though it was pretty good…

I think there are two choices for the game. Have progressive stats or have tons of gear variations in terms of looks. Since one of GW’s things was horizontal vs vertical in stats, the game should have had 1000’s of variations in equipment look. That would be the carrot and yes you do need one for many playing a mmo. But a looks slanted view doesn’t imbalance the game but still adds nice re-playability for many. Looks also give an individual their unique look which I’ve found in many mmo’s players prefer. In GW2, it’s pretty basic, too basic.

Having neither is pretty darn boring, the game borders on being boring in these two areas. Even though there is progression, it’s not amazing and all about that. Even though there are different looks, there aren’t that many.

I counted at least 25 different, coherent armor sets for light armor alone, and ANet made commitments to expand upon those.

BTW: there are not much more than that in WoW for clothies (please don’t count re-colors of the same skin…).. and that’s a 10 year old game with 4 major expansions.

And WoW is all about progression in stats, so they have that. GW’s needs its thing and from what I gather a number of buyers believed it wouldn’t be stat progression.

To OP: things just aren’t that black and white.

Not everyone is fully liberal or conservative. Ten years ago I would have said I was a conservative, now I’m not so sure anymore. I’m split on many issues. The republican party has gone so far right, I don’t recognize it anymore. But I’m not a fan of the democratic party either.

Also you have to consider what a person values most. I volunteer at a no-kill animal shelter. And I don’t get anything out of it other then the satisfaction that I did something useful. This fills me with joy like no fun video game can. I’m currently working my way up in the animal shelter and in another week I will be given the responsibility of feeding and caring for the cats, and I can’t wait. Like in real life volunteering, I can have fun with a game that doesn’t always have a tangible reward.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a tangible reward, but the vertical progression reward system is not something I want to see. I do believe in hard work, myself and my husband are both college educated. But our paths in life are very different. In vertical progression, the only way you can get the top reward is by doing endgame dungeon/raiding. It is the only way, and real life has far more choices in careers then dungeon/raiding.

Looking at GW1, we can see that one class had 31 armor sets, two classes 30 sets, 3 classes 28 sets, 2 classes 18 sets and 2 classes 11 sets. Add one more per class if you consider Deldrimor a set. People were still asking for more sets (especially for the later classes) up until the moment they realized the major updates have ended.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Noooo, what they said was Candyland can be as fun as Risk. Not necessarily to you. and not in the same times. I mean, unless it was like a couple buddies of mine who decided it would be hilarious to drag it out with a bottle of rum and shotglasses.

. . . come to think of it, that did make that pretty fun. More fun than the last time I played Risk.

So yeah, it kind of is how you approach a game which is going to determine if you have fun. “Let’s get piss drunk and play Candyland” versus “oh God not Risk again . . . just put it away, we know who’s winning that . . . again”. One of those times I will very likely not have fun while the other it’s more likely I’ll have fun. At least until I sober up, then I will wonder what possessed me to do that.

So in otherwords, getting really drunk is a good substitute for literally approaching the game with a 4 year old’s mentality.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And sure, there are outside problems which can contribute to a game not being fun. Like your dog running off with the dice. Your buddy knocking the board and jumbling up how many armies were on the board and where they were during a tense Risk standoff. A really really pissed off card gamer flipping the table.

Is Candyland or Chutes and Ladders the same level of play as Monopoly or Risk? Heck no. Does that mean they can’t be fun? . . . if you said yes, please tell me why.

Aside from my statement clearly being metaphoric, you’re failing to make any point here. Seems like your purpose is more to entertain than honestly discuss.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Also, there are a couple games that don’t keep a high score and are just “did you finish?” The Dragon Quest series, the Final Fantasy series, UFO: Enemy Unknown, Pokemon . . . I’ll name one more for good measure. Portal. For extra credit, Ultima 4. (It’s freeware now, I recommend it so long as you can put up with ancient graphics) Video games don’t have to keep score anymore. Heck even Mega Man stopped that after the first game.

So basically single player games, pass or fail games, or deathmatch games.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rewarding does not mean challenging, but the reverse doesn’t hold true. A challenging game can be rewarding in the sense of “I finally beat Ninja Gaiden” or “Thank God I don’t have to play any more Battletoads.” But a challenging game doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fun either. (See: Deadly Towers. Yes. I owned it once, because it was 50 cents at a used store. I still feel cheated.)

Well its a good thing were talking about ninja gaiden because I was starting to think we were talking about online mmos. You’re still at little to no bearing on anything I’ve said. Didn’t the old sidescrolling ninja gaiden have a score btw? The one shining thing I’ll agree with you on here is that challenge doesen’t always result in entertainment. I think you missed my point that nobody is making that argument that rewards = challenge to begin with and the original guy I was responding to was using that argument to say that EVERYTHING should be accessible to EVERYONE which basically means no challenge.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I play games if they’re fun or until I get bored with them, then I move on to the next thing. Right now, it’s Guild Wars 2 and some other stupid game about playing with blocks. Craftmine or something. Next it’ll be something different, and I’ll eventually get bored with that and move on too.

You must be the only person in the world who plays games untill you’re bored of them and as sarcastic as I’m being that is my point exactly. You’re driving my point home as well by already conceding to the fact that you will be moving on. Thats like saying “yeah, I can see myself getting bored with this game.” So can I, so can I.

Vertical or horizontal progression is beside the point as I wouldn’t mind horizontal one bit as long as it was entertaining enough. Itemization, customization, challenging and or complex means to either. These are the things people want (or at least did want) in a game like this. Theres only so far you can go with that if your purpose is to not offend soccer moms or people with two left hands.

Vlaxitov.5693:

You must be the only person in the world who plays games untill you’re bored of them and as sarcastic as I’m being that is my point exactly. You’re driving my point home as well by already conceding to the fact that you will be moving on. Thats like saying “yeah, I can see myself getting bored with this game.” So can I, so can I.

Vertical or horizontal progression is beside the point as I wouldn’t mind horizontal one bit as long as it was entertaining enough. Itemization, customization, challenging and or complex means to either. These are the things people want (or at least did want) in a game like this. Theres only so far you can go with that if your purpose is to not offend soccer moms or people with two left hands.

Do stop putting words in my mouth. about what I’m saying, or what I must mean.

- It’s not about how you have fun, it’s whether you had fun at all. Some people have fun doing truly stupid stuff . . . like my example. That was kinda dumb. But it was fun, I had a good time, and I defy your attempts to tell me that fun doesn’t matter. It matters.

- Yes. Single player games. Pass/fail games. Deathmatch games. Whatever you want to call them, they don’t have scores. They’re all still games, and they’re all still fun. Even games with scores tend to be less about the score. Master of Orion (First or second) offers a score but really, finishing it can be hard enough sometimes. I guess it’s openly competitive to get a high score and that’s all that matters? Minecraft has a score in it, it must be all about who can get the highest and not build the most interesting thing? How about Nethack . . . (shiver) . . . not really a score involved, just a set of things you did while you either died horribly or won the game.

None of these are “fun”? Are they any more or less fun than an online game like this or World of Warcraft or EVE Online? How do you qualify and quantify it objectively?

As for “admitting I’ll be moving on” . . . yes. Eventually I will, just as eventually GW1 is going to shut down, WoW is going to shut down, and eventually the Browns will win the Super Bowl.

(Quiet, I can dream.)

“Seems like your purpose is more to entertain than honestly discuss.”

A little of both. My goal is to present opinions and questions, within an entertaining or at least not adversarial way. As annoyed as I can be at the constant bickering about this, the fact both sides seem to be talking past each other the majority of the time, and that people are getting reduced to “gear-grinder” “apologist” “fanboy” “whiner” . . . no. That’s less conductive to a discussion than trying to be entertaining while striving for the point.

(Which, mind you, is a good way to get your point across. Compare and contrast simply telling someone “naked, untempered greed is bad” versus getting them to watch Wall Street.)

I’ll leave you with one question though. And it’s not just to you but to everyone else.

“If ArenaNet capitulated completely with your demands this be taken out, would you stay? And what about the people who aren’t you, who might be harmed by actions taken to remove this content?”

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

To the OP:

Working hard does not mean you are getting a reward. How many hard workers are there in this world and are still hard workers till they retire, but cannot afford their dream luxuries? It is not about working hard, but working smart. Time and effort pale in comparison to grabbing opportunities and taking risks. And those people who work smart and grab opportunities, they are your bosses.

IRL, that same gear treadmill exist from online games. Most people grind through their jobs to get the paycheck and repeat the same cycle though most of the time, reward does not scale up but the grind does. It is a sad reality, but it is what it is. Video games are entertainment where you can escape this harsh reality, but sadly you get thrown right back in.

Corvindi.5734:

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

We need a hitler video where he raves about ascended…

I still think the bigger issue is the following combination:
Ascended + high FOTM challenge levels + FOTM gating = lots of people feeling compelled to do something they don’t want (emptying the rest of the world and making for VERY testy players), and the FotM gating mechanism preventing people trying to group for it from gaining optimal outcomes for each person.

I dare say the fact Ascended is not available through every means like exotic is a much greater problem than the simple presence of Ascended, as gear seems to be a much smaller factor in this game than others.

plasmacutter.2709:

Corvindi.5734:

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

We need a hitler video where he raves about ascended…

I still think the bigger issue is the following combination:
Ascended + high FOTM challenge levels + FOTM gating = lots of people feeling compelled to do something they don’t want (emptying the rest of the world and making for VERY testy players), and the FotM gating mechanism preventing people trying to group for it from gaining optimal outcomes for each person.

I dare say the fact Ascended is not available through every means like exotic is a much greater problem than the simple presence of Ascended, as gear seems to be a much smaller factor in this game than others.

How do I put this delicately? Gamers are stupid sometimes. Why should we feel compelled to chase this gear at all? It clearly isn’t fun to get, so I’m not going to try to get it. Nor will I try to compete against it in WvW or for teams in PVE. I’m just going to wander solo until I find something better to do.

I am not a hamster, after all, and I will not act like one. I wish other people would stop acting like hamsters, too, maybe then finally we can get a decent MMO that doesn’t treat us like hamsters.

plasmacutter.2709:

Corvindi.5734:

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

We need a hitler video where he raves about ascended…

I still think the bigger issue is the following combination:
Ascended + high FOTM challenge levels + FOTM gating = lots of people feeling compelled to do something they don’t want (emptying the rest of the world and making for VERY testy players), and the FotM gating mechanism preventing people trying to group for it from gaining optimal outcomes for each person.

I dare say the fact Ascended is not available through every means like exotic is a much greater problem than the simple presence of Ascended, as gear seems to be a much smaller factor in this game than others.

This one I can agree with the sentiment of. The Fractals and Ascended should have been “whole hog or none” to avoid this severe split I know they probably had their reasons (possibly very good ones like “well we weren’t quite 100% ready yet”) but it’s still not good.

Corvindi.5734:

plasmacutter.2709:

Corvindi.5734:

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

We need a hitler video where he raves about ascended…

I still think the bigger issue is the following combination:
Ascended + high FOTM challenge levels + FOTM gating = lots of people feeling compelled to do something they don’t want (emptying the rest of the world and making for VERY testy players), and the FotM gating mechanism preventing people trying to group for it from gaining optimal outcomes for each person.

I dare say the fact Ascended is not available through every means like exotic is a much greater problem than the simple presence of Ascended, as gear seems to be a much smaller factor in this game than others.

How do I put this delicately? Gamers are stupid sometimes. Why should we feel compelled to chase this gear at all? It clearly isn’t fun to get, so I’m not going to try to get it. Nor will I try to compete against it in WvW or for teams in PVE. I’m just going to wander solo until I find something better to do.

I am not a hamster, after all, and I will not act like one. I wish other people would stop acting like hamsters, too, maybe then finally we can get a decent MMO that doesn’t treat us like hamsters.

That’s the thing: this MMO treats you like a hamster for as long as you think of yourself as one.

Fritz.5026:

i think many people have some type of disorder where they are having a hard time distinguishing between what is important in the real world and things people just do for fun.

i dont watch a movie seeking some type of advancement in life, all i expect it to do is entertain me. that is what i paid for and that is what i expect. i want an escape from reality for a short time where i can just sit back and relax while enjoying something.

thats what entertainment is for.

a video game is entertainment. its only here to keep you amused when you have time to spare. it is not supposed to be work or consume your life. its supposed to be something fun to do when you are bored.

i do not understand how people can keep comparing that to real life.

real life matters, video games do not. when your life ends you no longer exist, when a game ends you can just go buy another one.

trying to compare life to video games is like trying to compare trees to cars.

Your mistake is in thinking everyone is looking for the same type of fun. People play video games for different reasons. I want to say people just find different things to be fun, but really, I think it goes a lot deeper than that.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

Corvindi.5734:

plasmacutter.2709:

Corvindi.5734:

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

We need a hitler video where he raves about ascended…

I still think the bigger issue is the following combination:
Ascended + high FOTM challenge levels + FOTM gating = lots of people feeling compelled to do something they don’t want (emptying the rest of the world and making for VERY testy players), and the FotM gating mechanism preventing people trying to group for it from gaining optimal outcomes for each person.

I dare say the fact Ascended is not available through every means like exotic is a much greater problem than the simple presence of Ascended, as gear seems to be a much smaller factor in this game than others.

How do I put this delicately? Gamers are stupid sometimes. Why should we feel compelled to chase this gear at all? It clearly isn’t fun to get, so I’m not going to try to get it. Nor will I try to compete against it in WvW or for teams in PVE. I’m just going to wander solo until I find something better to do.

I am not a hamster, after all, and I will not act like one. I wish other people would stop acting like hamsters, too, maybe then finally we can get a decent MMO that doesn’t treat us like hamsters.

That’s the thing: this MMO treats you like a hamster for as long as you think of yourself as one.

Keeping up with the Hamsters requires acting like a Hamster. As soon as Ascended was announced, I knew I was done with WvW and would avoid grouping in PVE even more than I already did. But I wouldn’t have had to lose my favorite part of the game (WvW) and become even more antisocial if everyone else refused to be a hamster, too, because then they never would have dared put this gear in.

Corvindi.5734:

plasmacutter.2709:

Corvindi.5734:

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

We need a hitler video where he raves about ascended…

I still think the bigger issue is the following combination:
Ascended + high FOTM challenge levels + FOTM gating = lots of people feeling compelled to do something they don’t want (emptying the rest of the world and making for VERY testy players), and the FotM gating mechanism preventing people trying to group for it from gaining optimal outcomes for each person.

I dare say the fact Ascended is not available through every means like exotic is a much greater problem than the simple presence of Ascended, as gear seems to be a much smaller factor in this game than others.

How do I put this delicately? Gamers are stupid sometimes. Why should we feel compelled to chase this gear at all? It clearly isn’t fun to get, so I’m not going to try to get it. Nor will I try to compete against it in WvW or for teams in PVE. I’m just going to wander solo until I find something better to do.

I am not a hamster, after all, and I will not act like one. I wish other people would stop acting like hamsters, too, maybe then finally we can get a decent MMO that doesn’t treat us like hamsters.

I understand where you are coming from, and have been doing this myself in the limited time i’ve been able to log in during this thanksgiving, but the fact remains that you will need to spread the Ascended gear to all aspects of the game if you want to see people playing all aspects of the game again. Otherwise, it’s a fully solo game with insanely hard encounters (because you have to solo group encounters with everyone buried in the fractals)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Do stop putting words in my mouth. about what I’m saying, or what I must mean.

I’ll leave you with one question though. And it’s not just to you but to everyone else.

“If ArenaNet capitulated completely with your demands this be taken out, would you stay? And what about the people who aren’t you, who might be harmed by actions taken to remove this content?”

You see alot of this in online forums. You just accused me of putting words in your mouth (which I clearly didn’t) then went on to assume that I “demand it be taken out.” Whatever gave you the impression that I’m demanding it be taken out? I think it maybe could have been done differently but I never said I think it should be taken out. Thats essentially my question, to what extent are you willing to make all the content in a game “accessible to everyone” at the cost of what couldn’t be anything other than lowering the bar on dare I say skill or effort to access the content?

Corvindi.5734:

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

Corvindi.5734:

plasmacutter.2709:

Corvindi.5734:

Since Ascended gear will create the standard WoW-style haves and have-nots and worse, will put those who don’t have it at a disadvantage in WvW, I’m against it for the same reason I’m against corporate and military power being used to oppress the poor and powerless.

Although I’m less concerned about Ascended gear than I am about real world bully tactics, since I’m %99 positive no one is going to actually die from Ascended. Unless, of course, someone really does try to farm up all those mats. Hopefully no stories of people found dead in their chairs with the GW2 loading screen on their monitors will surface.

We need a hitler video where he raves about ascended…

I still think the bigger issue is the following combination:
Ascended + high FOTM challenge levels + FOTM gating = lots of people feeling compelled to do something they don’t want (emptying the rest of the world and making for VERY testy players), and the FotM gating mechanism preventing people trying to group for it from gaining optimal outcomes for each person.

I dare say the fact Ascended is not available through every means like exotic is a much greater problem than the simple presence of Ascended, as gear seems to be a much smaller factor in this game than others.

How do I put this delicately? Gamers are stupid sometimes. Why should we feel compelled to chase this gear at all? It clearly isn’t fun to get, so I’m not going to try to get it. Nor will I try to compete against it in WvW or for teams in PVE. I’m just going to wander solo until I find something better to do.

I am not a hamster, after all, and I will not act like one. I wish other people would stop acting like hamsters, too, maybe then finally we can get a decent MMO that doesn’t treat us like hamsters.

That’s the thing: this MMO treats you like a hamster for as long as you think of yourself as one.

Keeping up with the Hamsters requires acting like a Hamster. As soon as Ascended was announced, I knew I was done with WvW and would avoid grouping in PVE even more than I already did. But I wouldn’t have had to lose my favorite part of the game (WvW) and become even more antisocial if everyone else refused to be a hamster, too, because then they never would have dared put this gear in.

Don’t let other people affect you then. If your actions are directly influenced by the avoidance of people with certain behaviours, do you not inadvertently exhibit a pliability to those behaviours?

Corvindi.5734:

Keeping up with the Hamsters requires acting like a Hamster. As soon as Ascended was announced, I knew I was done with WvW and would avoid grouping in PVE even more than I already did. But I wouldn’t have had to lose my favorite part of the game (WvW) and become even more antisocial if everyone else refused to be a hamster, too, because then they never would have dared put this gear in.

Point to note, if everyone else refused to be a hamster, there wouldn’t be a problem over this. I mean, unless you’re telling me if the majority of WvW forces were kitted out in non-maximum gear then they’d lose all the time . . .

. . . wait a moment. All WvW are maxed out with gear now, right, I mean, totally level playing field? No? Then what’s changing if the people in full Exotic move to Ascended, and the non-Exotics get up there due to Exotic becoming cheaper to get hands on?

WvW isn’t solely about gear, because if it was then there wouldn’t be talk about the Thieves’ burst damage output. Or night capping. Or the portal-turtle trick.

Vlaxitov.5693:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Do stop putting words in my mouth. about what I’m saying, or what I must mean.

I’ll leave you with one question though. And it’s not just to you but to everyone else.

“If ArenaNet capitulated completely with your demands this be taken out, would you stay? And what about the people who aren’t you, who might be harmed by actions taken to remove this content?”

You see alot of this in online forums. You just accused me of putting words in your mouth (which I clearly didn’t) then went on to assume that I “demand it be taken out.” Whatever gave you the impression that I’m demanding it be taken out? I think it maybe could have been done differently but I never said I think it should be taken out. Thats essentially my question, to what extent are you willing to make all the content in a game “accessible to everyone” at the cost of what couldn’t be anything other than lowering the bar on dare I say skill or effort to access the content?

I wasn’t insisting YOU were the one demanding it be taken out, and that’s what I meant by “putting words in my mouth”. I was after “you” in a plural general sense not a specific individual sense with the question. I was posing it to you, and to everyone saying this gear is a bad idea.

. . . Gods above I hate the English language pronouns sometimes . . .