Guild Wars 2

BlueZone.4236:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

That thing fluctuates a lot though. Try going back few months to the time of living story if you can.

Ok, but you can see it on the page yourself, but I suppose I can post the numbers here.
Archeage skipped, obviously because it wasn’t released.

Unique traffic by month (2014):
GW2:
August 626,576 (Living Story)
July 576,472 (Living Story)
June 529,590
May 619,891
April 586,788
March 580,467 (Living Story)
February 534,457 (Living Story)
January 543,282 (Living Story)

FF14:
August 720,962
July 743,345
June 645,430
May 665,302
April 682,414
March 612,954
February 590,915
January 697,025

So FF14 has more traffic regardless of month this year.

Not even closely relevant to what I’m saying though. So let’s say Guild Wars 2 is #3, instead of #2? So? Changes absolutely nothing.

There’s a few guys on the forums that try to make it out like this game has one foot in the grave, when it’s the 3rd or 4th most popular MMO…and might well be the second most if it weren’t for console sales (a point people keep ignoring).

Regardless, it doesn’t change anything one whit. The game is fine…that’s all this means.

Fernling.1729:

The google trends does show that ff14 is searched more often than gw2. Over the last year, gw2 hasn’t surpassed ff14 a single time. We are also forgetting about runescape, which is trending much higher than gw2. We will have to see how archeage will hold up, since release it’s been higher, which is to be expected. I have a feeling it will hold up though. Gw2 one month after launch had a 38 and archeage one month after has a 37.

From those mmorpgs and WoW, that puts gw2 at #4, with a potential #5 depending on what happens with archeage.
I’m pretty sure I’ve said this exact same thing before. Lol

Don’t forget that FFXIV has the massive power of the Final Fantasy brand.

I played FFXI for years for no other reason than I love Final Fantasy as a franchise (And some good people)

As for this topic, needs to be closed because of all the negativity.

Let’s face facts, invasive third party apps will never be good judges of game activity because few people use them and large numbers of those people downloading will have downloaded through a promotion for the specific game they play, making the numbers favour a specific game.

The only activity statistics I will trust are ANet’s own. Hopefully they’ll release some stats for this year’s activity

The game is in a bloody fantastic state of activity. All the doomsayers clearly have no clue what an actually dying game looks like.

Fluctuations and decline in overall activity between major releases are a totally natural aspect of any online game, and considering GW2 only requires initial investment, the retention numbers are amazingly impressive.

I am usually a very critical person, but GW2 as a product always impresses me on a regular basis. I feel much of the talk of the death of Tyria is simply people who played since launch, with huge hoards of people, and seem to (unrealistically) expect those levels of activity to always be there. GW2 is casual in nature and doesn’t have the “obligation of investment” factor of a subscription game to keep you logging in well past being bored of the game

wasted.6817:

Not to jump to any conclusions or w/e, but what i noticed recently. For the past ~month, maybe more, LA chat is practically dead, no matter what time of day, no conversations at all, that’s the first time i see this in GW2 and i’am playing since beta. Now with Halloween there are some, but can’t be even nearly compared to how it used to be during past Halloweens. ~20 ppl doing Mad King says… used to be crowded. If it’s any indicator of decline in playerbase, then it could be because of:

1. General discontent after 9/9 patch and long break between LS seasons.
2. Archeage release. I know for a fact that many big guilds left for AA, as guilds.
3. Pre WoD patch release in WoW.

People who left were practically ready to leave for some time now and were just waiting for a good reason. Let’s see what happens on episode 2 release with Wintersday following up.

All very good observations. I have my doubts about Wintersday and the finale of LS season 2, though. More than enough players have become disillusioned with Anet’s handling of GW2, it’ll take a full on expansion to restore the glory. On the bright side I’ve been finding more and crowds in GW1. Not everyone has migrated back to Wow, many have returned home

Vix.6730:

wasted.6817:

Not to jump to any conclusions or w/e, but what i noticed recently. For the past ~month, maybe more, LA chat is practically dead, no matter what time of day, no conversations at all, that’s the first time i see this in GW2 and i’am playing since beta. Now with Halloween there are some, but can’t be even nearly compared to how it used to be during past Halloweens. ~20 ppl doing Mad King says… used to be crowded. If it’s any indicator of decline in playerbase, then it could be because of:

1. General discontent after 9/9 patch and long break between LS seasons.
2. Archeage release. I know for a fact that many big guilds left for AA, as guilds.
3. Pre WoD patch release in WoW.

People who left were practically ready to leave for some time now and were just waiting for a good reason. Let’s see what happens on episode 2 release with Wintersday following up.

All very good observations. I have my doubts about Wintersday and the finale of LS season 2, though. More than enough players have become disillusioned with Anet’s handling of GW2, it’ll take a full on expansion to restore the glory. On the bright side I’ve been finding more and crowds in GW1. Not everyone has migrated back to Wow, many have returned home

They’re biased observations. Archeage isn’t doing as well as you’d think. Quite a few people, even on these forums, who touted Archeage prerelease have already left Archeage in disgust.

You guys seem to think many of the players enjoying Guild Wars 2 LIKE other MMOs like WoW…but many of us don’t. This is the MMO for the rest of us.

The people who don’t like Guild Wars 2 often do like other MMOs. For many of us, WoW and Archeage were NEVER options.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Lol, funny how you were trying to argue GW2 has more interest than Archeage on Reddit right now, despite the real evidence. Which is to say, there is more interest in Archeage than GW2 right now (and more members online on average!). And FF14 consistently has more interest than GW2 on Reddit.
It’s true.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Lol, funny how you were trying to argue GW2 has more interest than Archeage on Reddit right now, despite the real evidence. Which is to say, there is more interest in Archeage than GW2 right now (and more members online on average!). And FF14 consistently has more interest than GW2 on Reddit.
It’s true.

I posted exactly the numbers that were online when I posted it. At the time they were accurate. So I’m not sure what you’re point is.

And when I posted the numbers Guild Wars 2 has more as well. It’s possible Guild Wars 2 had higher numbers then because Halloween was newer, that I can’t say…but it had higher numbers.

It’s not like I lied. I looked when I looked.

i dont use any of those…so according to them i dont play gw2?…. my friend /guild list makes a better statistic than that xD

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Lol, funny how you were trying to argue GW2 has more interest than Archeage on Reddit right now, despite the real evidence. Which is to say, there is more interest in Archeage than GW2 right now (and more members online on average!). And FF14 consistently has more interest than GW2 on Reddit.
It’s true.

I posted exactly the numbers that were online when I posted it. At the time they were accurate. So I’m not sure what you’re point is.

And when I posted the numbers Guild Wars 2 has more as well. It’s possible Guild Wars 2 had higher numbers then because Halloween was newer, that I can’t say…but it had higher numbers.

It’s not like I lied. I looked when I looked.

Maybe when you looked it up more players were google searching it because of the bad press?

edit: In overwolf hearthstone is #12 despite having 20 million players . Those numers are far from accurate, plus GW and overwolf entered a partnership so of course more people use OW than in other games. Me personally, I didn’t even know those trackers existed with exception of xfire and last time I used that was around 8 years ago

Vayne.8563:

I have no proof that Xfire is accurate. But we know for a fact that Guild Wars has more than hundreds of players because there are multiple maps with hundreds of players all doing stuff at the same time. For example, even when there were queues for the top servers during the WvW tournament, there were still multiple zones doing the Fire Ele.

Of course. Never claimed otherwise. Maps with hundreds of people weren’t being discussed, x-fire (etc) numbers were..

Vayne.8563:

I have no proof that three different sites that track numbers are tracking numbers? lol

I never claimed that you should have such proof. I just put in a disclaimer because I referred to their numbers as facts when technically I don’t know for certain that their claims are factual.

Vayne.8563:

Okay you have no proof there are less players in the game now than there were six months ago.

Then again I have not made any such claim. I wouldn’t make such a claim. You see, I do not have access to any official data that would allow me to make a statement of fact one way or the other on this subject.

Oddly enough I believe that it has been pointed out that one of the sites you reference does show that GW2’s numbers have dropped by 90% over the last year. If I put any weight at all on these sites’ numbers that would scare me.

Vayne.8563:

And since this thread is in response to people who are saying the game is dead with no proof, I’d take this “proof” over their proof.

You have no proof, neither do they. You both have opinion and speculation. I tend to agree with you that the game seems to be holding its own, but the fact that I share your opinion and agree with your speculation does not change speculation and opinion into fact and proof.

Vayne.8563:

And again, Anet didn’t have anyone laid off when NcSoft was restructuring. One would think if it was dead they would have.

That does indeed seem to be reasonable speculation.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Lol, funny how you were trying to argue GW2 has more interest than Archeage on Reddit right now, despite the real evidence. Which is to say, there is more interest in Archeage than GW2 right now (and more members online on average!). And FF14 consistently has more interest than GW2 on Reddit.
It’s true.

I posted exactly the numbers that were online when I posted it. At the time they were accurate. So I’m not sure what you’re point is.

And when I posted the numbers Guild Wars 2 has more as well. It’s possible Guild Wars 2 had higher numbers then because Halloween was newer, that I can’t say…but it had higher numbers.

It’s not like I lied. I looked when I looked.

Maybe when you looked it up more players were google searching it because of the bad press?

edit: In overwolf hearthstone is #12 despite having 20 million players . Those numers are far from accurate, plus GW and overwolf entered a partnership so of course more people use OW than in other games. Me personally, I didn’t even know those trackers existed with exception of xfire and last time I used that was around 8 years ago

Since the program tracks player hours, having 20 million players doesn’t necessarily mean much. And how many of those 20 million players are current? Is everyone still playing? Did anyone stop playing? Do people play Hearthstone as long at a time as they sit in MMOs.

The program simply tracks hours played and the numbers change all the time. Yesterday when I looked Guild Wars 2 was at 9 and today it’s at 10. It just means people are in game doing Halloween stuff for more hours than people are playing Heartstone at this particular time.

As for Googling Guild Wars 2 the numbers of people doing that aren’t going up and down and spiking because of the bad press.. but it’s a nice try on your part.

People who don’t enjoy playing this game can’t understand that people out there do enjoy playing this game.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

Vayne.8563:

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

Who said I don’t like the game? Are you somehow actively looking for confrontation?
The question regarding bad press was just common sense: You did the search 1-2 days ago, right when IGN had an article about the game. For me it’s logical that interest in the game would rise slightly back then.

edit for clarification: ANet is doing a lot of stuff wrong in terms of monetization and yes, the drought of content is something I’d rather not have but the game, at its core, is good and I enjoy my time in Tyria.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

Who said I don’t like the game? Are you somehow actively looking for confrontation?
The question regarding bad press was just common sense: You did the search 1-2 days ago, right when IGN had an article about the game. For me it’s logical that interest in the game would rise slightly back then.

I’ve been checking those numbers for months.

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

Who said I don’t like the game? Are you somehow actively looking for confrontation?
The question regarding bad press was just common sense: You did the search 1-2 days ago, right when IGN had an article about the game. For me it’s logical that interest in the game would rise slightly back then.

I’ve been checking those numbers for months.

Then please edit the OP from ‘long time’ to ‘a couple of months’.
Yesterday I was at the dentist and had to wait 30minutes. That was a ‘long time’ too.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

Who said I don’t like the game? Are you somehow actively looking for confrontation?
The question regarding bad press was just common sense: You did the search 1-2 days ago, right when IGN had an article about the game. For me it’s logical that interest in the game would rise slightly back then.

I’ve been checking those numbers for months.

Then please edit the OP from ‘long time’ to ‘a couple of months’.
Yesterday I was at the dentist and had to wait 30minutes. That was a ‘long time’ too.

I’ve been checking the REDDIT numbers for months. I’ve been checking those others for a lot longer. I’ve posted about those other numbers more than 6 months ago.

Thanks for the advice though.

These probably aren’t very good methods to measure player activity of any game. Just from personal experience I have never known anyone to use any of these and I play with a hundreds of people across a ton of games.

Edit: I know two people that used to use Overwolf.

Scryeless.1924:

These probably aren’t very good methods to measure player activity of any game. Just from personal experience I have never known anyone to use any of these and I play with a hundreds of people across a ton of games.

Edit: I know two people that used to use Overwolf.

They’re good methods of measuring trends. Why is this so hard to understand?

Do you want to know how I know? Because these sites have reflected the existing trends for a long time.

It’s not going to give you good specific information. But you will see trends. And just about all the time those trends will be backed up.

You’re working on a theory from not having followed those sites. I’m working from the point of view of having followed them.

The articles written on the Raptr blog each month add to the insight they give you. Go back over them and look for yourself.

Vayne.8563:

Since the program tracks player hours…

One more. I don’t know whether it’s good to measure player population in GW2 that way as many players just afk in the capitals. Even back in the day when LA wasn’t destroyed
it was quite apparent that a ton of players just stand in LA while doing something else.
I’m sure a lot of my ingame lifetime was accumulated by tabbing out while standing in LA or DR.

Look, I get it. You dislike all the doomsaying on the forums and wanted to provide ‘objective’ evidence to show that GW2 isn’t dying.
It’s just that those numbers don’t really help the players. For example when I have to wait 15 minutes for a pvp match to open only to get a 4v5, that’s not fun, no matter how many players are ingame.

When I can’t, for the life of me, find a populated lab map to farm and all 3-4 taxis I was trying to take were just based on my current map, it doesn’t help me when xfire or whatever says that the game is alive. (I ended up commanding the seemingly only map during friday 6-10pm CET – primetime)
When raptr lists GW2 in the top 10, that’s great, but it won’t bring all my guildies back who played since prophecies but left a few months ago (around 40 people if I recall correctly).

The game isn’t dying. That’s great to hear because as someone who wants to see GW2 doing well, more players are always good but it feels that way.
I know it’s not an indicator for player activity but as someone said, mad king says used to be bustling with players. Now it’s maybe 10-20 even with megaservers (during primetime). PvP queues are much longer than they used to be. Chat in LA and DR is practically dead. If you have a different experience, great. However that’s how it’s been for me (EU servercluster, playtime between 5-7pm CET)

Numbers are great but what I want is a fun game.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Since the program tracks player hours…

One more. I don’t know whether it’s good to measure player population in GW2 that way as many players just afk in the capitals. Even back in the day when LA wasn’t destroyed
it was quite apparent that a ton of players just stand in LA while doing something else.
I’m sure a lot of my ingame lifetime was accumulated by tabbing out while standing in LA or DR.

Look, I get it. You dislike all the doomsaying on the forums and wanted to provide ‘objective’ evidence to show that GW2 isn’t dying.
It’s just that those numbers don’t really help the players. For example when I have to wait 15 minutes for a pvp match to open only to get a 4v5, that’s not fun, no matter how many players are ingame.

When I can’t, for the life of me, find a populated lab map to farm and all 3-4 taxis I was trying to take were just based on my current map, it doesn’t help me when xfire or whatever says that the game is alive. (I ended up commanding the seemingly only map during friday 6-10pm CET – primetime)
When raptr lists GW2 in the top 10, that’s great, but it won’t bring all my guildies back who played since prophecies but left a few months ago (around 40 people if I recall correctly).

The game isn’t dying. That’s great to hear because as someone who wants to see GW2 doing well, more players are always good but it feels that way.
I know it’s not an indicator for player activity but as someone said, mad king says used to be bustling with players. Now it’s maybe 10-20 even with megaservers (during primetime). PvP queues are much longer than they used to be. Chat in LA and DR is practically dead. If you have a different experience, great. However that’s how it’s been for me (EU servercluster, playtime between 5-7pm CET)

Numbers are great but what I want is a fun game.

Funny, because it doesn’t feel that way to me. It doesn’t feel that way to me when the zerg numbers in WvW are so large you can’t go anywhere without serious risk (tier 1 servers at least).

I’m relatively sure Anet lowered the server caps on the Mad King’s Labyrinth this year so you can’t zerg. I know this because the small zerg we were in capped out when my guldies tried to join, though eventually they did get into my server.

And then you have people saying no one is in Lion’s Arch and you’re trying to say people are just standing around there. You can’t both be right.

Anyway if people weren’t playing, why would they be standing around in LA anyway? That makes no sense.

I can’t remember the last time I logged into a game I wasn’t playing to stand around. As an example, I don’t play WoW and I don’t log in and stand around in WoW.

LFG dungeon groups tend to fill pretty fast. Stuff I sell on the trading post sells pretty fast. Trying to say the game doesn’t have players is just ridiculous whether your guild left or not.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Since the program tracks player hours…

One more. I don’t know whether it’s good to measure player population in GW2 that way as many players just afk in the capitals. Even back in the day when LA wasn’t destroyed
it was quite apparent that a ton of players just stand in LA while doing something else.
I’m sure a lot of my ingame lifetime was accumulated by tabbing out while standing in LA or DR.

Look, I get it. You dislike all the doomsaying on the forums and wanted to provide ‘objective’ evidence to show that GW2 isn’t dying.
It’s just that those numbers don’t really help the players. For example when I have to wait 15 minutes for a pvp match to open only to get a 4v5, that’s not fun, no matter how many players are ingame.

When I can’t, for the life of me, find a populated lab map to farm and all 3-4 taxis I was trying to take were just based on my current map, it doesn’t help me when xfire or whatever says that the game is alive. (I ended up commanding the seemingly only map during friday 6-10pm CET – primetime)
When raptr lists GW2 in the top 10, that’s great, but it won’t bring all my guildies back who played since prophecies but left a few months ago (around 40 people if I recall correctly).

The game isn’t dying. That’s great to hear because as someone who wants to see GW2 doing well, more players are always good but it feels that way.
I know it’s not an indicator for player activity but as someone said, mad king says used to be bustling with players. Now it’s maybe 10-20 even with megaservers (during primetime). PvP queues are much longer than they used to be. Chat in LA and DR is practically dead. If you have a different experience, great. However that’s how it’s been for me (EU servercluster, playtime between 5-7pm CET)

Numbers are great but what I want is a fun game.

Funny, because it doesn’t feel that way to me. It doesn’t feel that way to me when the zerg numbers in WvW are so large you can’t go anywhere without serious risk (tier 1 servers at least).

I’m relatively sure Anet lowered the server caps on the Mad King’s Labyrinth this year so you can’t zerg. I know this because the small zerg we were in capped out when my guldies tried to join, though eventually they did get into my server.

And then you have people saying no one is in Lion’s Arch and you’re trying to say people are just standing around there. You can’t both be right.

Anyway if people weren’t playing, why would they be standing around in LA anyway? That makes no sense.

I can’t remember the last time I logged into a game I wasn’t playing to stand around. As an example, I don’t play WoW and I don’t log in and stand around in WoW.

LFG dungeon groups tend to fill pretty fast. Stuff I sell on the trading post sells pretty fast. Trying to say the game doesn’t have players is just ridiculous whether your guild left or not.

Wow, did you really just try to prove my feelings wrong that the game used to be more fun for me personally? Whiteknight’s gotta whiteknight I guess.

Where did you see me mention the word fun? I’m sorry this post isn’t about fun. If you want to talk about fun, start a thread and talk about it.

Now, maybe you haven’t seen a trend on these forums of threads attempting to announce the death of the game, but I have. And maybe, just maybe, those people have an ax to grind. But they have no evidence to back it up.

If you’re not having fun, you’re not having fun and no one can tell you otherwise. But if you think this game is dead, you’ve never played a dead game. This game is very much alive…whether your friends play it or they don’t.

It doesn’t take a white knight to speak an obvious truth. I’m wondering what kind of person it takes to deny an obvious truth.

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Okay, let’s try this one more time.

I’ve been following Raptr for a long, long time and that site, though it may not contain zillions of users, it does in fact reflect what you can see and read elsewhere.

I knew Wildstar was doing bad from Raptr before I found it out anywhere else. I tracked the decline of ESO on Raptr as well.

It’s like saying polling doesn’t mean anything, which is patently untrue. It’s not a 100% gospel thing, but it certainly does show trends, which is all I’m talking about.

Now, you may not agree, but that doesn’t make it less true. And since you obviously haven’t been following Raptr for any length of time, you’re just talking out of what you consider to be logical.

I’m talking about my experience of following it. Do it yourself. It’s easy enough to go back and look at how games track and look how the games that become unpopular fall off the top 20 and the games that are fairly popular stay there.

You seem to think I’m trying to track exact numbers of some kind. These sites are useless for that. But they’re absolutely not useless for tracking trends.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Shhh! Vayne doesn’t tolerate objections. You should know that after reading through his posting history :P

I guess personal attacks are all you can do when you have nothing left to say that’s actually on topic or accurate.

People have been telling you since page one that those numbers are not representative. You chose to ignore it. I told you that the game feels more empty and tried to make the point that even if what you are saying is right, for me and the people I play with the game feels mor empty. You tried to prove a subjective opinion wrong.

That alone shows what kind of person you are Not that anyone who frequents the forums doesn’t already know that.

I’m a researcher by profession. It’s part of what I did. Fact checking. I go around a look for facts.

People have certainly been saying that this data means nothing since page 1. So what? People say lots of things…many of which are incorrect. I’ve followed this stuff for years, people are coming and saying…I never heard of it, so it must be wrong.

If you don’t want to accept that this is an indication of something that’s well within your rights. Trying to ridicule me, however is not in your rights.

You agree with those people so what they tell me seems right to you and you believe I should just accept it.

Well that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I see a lot of people thinks quantaty means quality which i’m sorry to read. Nicky minaj has about 300 milion views on her music videos, does that make her a quality musician? Nope.

Vayne.8563:

I’m a researcher by profession. It’s part of what I did. Fact checking. I go around a look for facts.

People have certainly been saying that this data means nothing since page 1. So what? People say lots of things…many of which are incorrect.

I take it you think of yourself as the exception based on how you talk/write.

I’ve followed this stuff for years, people are coming and saying…I never heard of it, so it must be wrong.

If you don’t want to accept that this is an indication of something that’s well within your rights.

I choose to think those numbers are representative but accept that others aren’t necessarily of the same opinion. That’s how life works; there will always be people who believe different things and maybe people were more receptive to what you have to say were you not always so adamant about being right and tried an actual dialogue.

You agree with those people so what they tell me seems right to you and you believe I should just accept it.

No, quite the contrary. That’s just a result of my ego not being as big and thinking I know everything better than everyone else. I simply accept that different people choose to believe different things. Now as I see it, people know that statistically the game is doing alright, however based on people I talk to from the WvW and SPvP community as well as my guild members (the new ones who joined after the old brigade left) who play more PvE the overall enjoyment has gone down.

People I talk to are displeased with the direction the game is going so they fear that Anet chooses to persue said path based on their numbers. People are just afraid the game they loved turned into something they don’t like – perfectly understandable if you ask me.
The world isn’t always black and white but a good researcher would know that.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

I’m a researcher by profession. It’s part of what I did. Fact checking. I go around a look for facts.

People have certainly been saying that this data means nothing since page 1. So what? People say lots of things…many of which are incorrect.

I take it you think of yourself as the exception based on how you talk/write.

I’ve followed this stuff for years, people are coming and saying…I never heard of it, so it must be wrong.

If you don’t want to accept that this is an indication of something that’s well within your rights.

I choose to think those numbers are representative but accept that others aren’t necessarily of the same opinion. That’s how life works; there will always be people who believe different things and maybe people were more receptive to what you have to say were you not always so adamant about being right and tried an actual dialogue.

You agree with those people so what they tell me seems right to you and you believe I should just accept it.

No, quite the contrary. That’s just a result of my ego not being as big and thinking I know everything better than everyone else. I simply accept that different people choose to believe different things. Now as I see it, people know that statistically the game is doing alright, however based on people I talk to from the WvW and SPvP community as well as my guild members (the new ones who joined after the old brigade left) who play more PvE the overall enjoyment has gone down.

People I talk to are displeased with the direction the game is going so they fear that Anet chooses to persue said path based on their numbers. People are just afraid the game they loved turned into something they don’t like – perfectly understandable if you ask me.
The world isn’t always black and white but a good researcher would know that.

Yes, the world isn’t always black and white and I’m well aware of that. In case you haven’t noticed, I’ve never once said this was a great game. Not once. But I have said people who are saying this game is dead are wrong. Mistaken or providing misinformation deliberately.

It’s funny that you can’t differentiate between what I’ve said and what you think I’m saying.

Oxidia.8103:

I see a lot of people thinks quantaty means quality which i’m sorry to read. Nicky minaj has about 300 milion views on her music videos, does that make her a quality musician? Nope.

Absolutely 100% true.

But it has nothing to do with what I’ve been saying.

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Oxidia.8103:

I see a lot of people thinks quantaty means quality which i’m sorry to read. Nicky minaj has about 300 milion views on her music videos, does that make her a quality musician? Nope.

depends on your, personal, opinion.

I personally hate Nikki Minaj’s music. Does that mean it’s bad? Not at all, just that I don’t like it. If her music was universally bad or low quality, I doubt she’d generate the traffic she does or be as wealthy and successful as she is.

There’s something about humans that seems to make it almost impossible for most people to accept different points of view on a subject, rather than only their opinion being correct, and it’s one of the things I hate most about people as a whole.

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

I’m a researcher by profession. It’s part of what I did. Fact checking. I go around a look for facts.

People have certainly been saying that this data means nothing since page 1. So what? People say lots of things…many of which are incorrect.

I take it you think of yourself as the exception based on how you talk/write.

I’ve followed this stuff for years, people are coming and saying…I never heard of it, so it must be wrong.

If you don’t want to accept that this is an indication of something that’s well within your rights.

I choose to think those numbers are representative but accept that others aren’t necessarily of the same opinion. That’s how life works; there will always be people who believe different things and maybe people were more receptive to what you have to say were you not always so adamant about being right and tried an actual dialogue.

You agree with those people so what they tell me seems right to you and you believe I should just accept it.

No, quite the contrary. That’s just a result of my ego not being as big and thinking I know everything better than everyone else. I simply accept that different people choose to believe different things. Now as I see it, people know that statistically the game is doing alright, however based on people I talk to from the WvW and SPvP community as well as my guild members (the new ones who joined after the old brigade left) who play more PvE the overall enjoyment has gone down.

People I talk to are displeased with the direction the game is going so they fear that Anet chooses to persue said path based on their numbers. People are just afraid the game they loved turned into something they don’t like – perfectly understandable if you ask me.
The world isn’t always black and white but a good researcher would know that.

Yes, the world isn’t always black and white and I’m well aware of that. In case you haven’t noticed, I’ve never once said this was a great game. Not once. But I have said people who are saying this game is dead are wrong. Mistaken or providing misinformation deliberately.

It’s funny that you can’t differentiate between what I’ve said and what you think I’m saying.

I never indicated that you said GW2 was a great game. All I said is: There will always be people with a different opinion. Respect that. Maybe then you will be shown respect in return. Try a dialogue, not a ‘lecture’ where you are showing all the others why they’re wrong. Listen and you will be listened to.

Instead of stating opinions as fact (in regards to whether your statistics are accurate or not), state that you think it is correct or indicative of a trend and why. Then listen to what others have to say about it.

It’s funny how you are trying to lay words in my mouth just to bash a strawman because I actually think those statistics can show trends.
I guess that’s just the hallmark of a ‘forumwarrior’. It’s not about an actuall discussion, just about the controversy. A real shame, considering you could use your energy more productively :/

Vayne.8563:

Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

The sad part is, I actually believe that you believe that. It’s highly subjective and I don’t have the time to count votes but from what I’ve seen you get far more ridicule then praise. The fact that you really think most people are on your side could be really interesting in regards to psychological factors for this type of zealos behaviour.

rapthorne.7345:

There’s something about humans that seems to make it almost impossible for most people to accept different points of view on a subject, rather than only their opinion being correct, and it’s one of the things I hate most about people as a whole.

Exactly what I’ve been trying to highlight. Some people just aren’t willing to accept opinion of others and don’t realise their zeal to prove everyone wrong makes them look desperate.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Lol, understandable. It’s easier to be sloppy to spread misinformation like you did rather than to do real research and post facts.

@Crovax.7854

I have a lot of experience you don’t have, such as personal mails from people who don’t post in threads. There are plenty of people on these forums who support me, who don’t want to expose themselves to the types of attacks I get. And that’s okay. They don’t have to.

Now you did call me a white knight, but if I’m not saying the game is great, maybe I’m not the white knight you think I am. I’m pointing out that there’s no real credible source to say the game is doing badly not even from the quarterly report or the fact that NCsoft laid off a bunch of people from the West but didn’t touch Anet. That’s fact.

That you think there’s something white knightish about believing something simple and logical shows that you’ve already judged the argument without looking.

There’s enough minor evidence here to make a major point.

As for proving people wrong…I actually say people are wrong very rarely. But then, I made the post here and people are saying I’m wrong…and you think I should just accept it. So noted.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Lol, understandable. It’s easier to be sloppy to spread misinformation like you did rather than to do real research and post facts.

I posted lots of facts you’ve completely ignored. Why ignore them?

If the game is doing so badly, why did NcSoft sack a bunch of people from NCsoft west but leave Anet untouched by the layoffs?

Why does the quarterly report still show a profitable game?

These are things you can ignore all you want, but they won’t go away.

I’am surprised mod haven’t locked this thread yet. It completely derailed since yday.

calling for a mod to lock this thread, there’s nothing constructive going on and just a whole lot of arguing back and forth

Vayne, I am sorry but this post is pretty useless becouse it wont do any difference. Doom and gloomers will still be just that and people with skills in math and statistics will always fight about numbers they dug out for the internet. One is not right in the other ones eye and will always be so until hard facts is shown (And sometimes event that wont help).

It does not help that Vayne is almost always protecting claims about this game as he will be accused of being a fanboy or a secret Anet employee, so some people will go against Vayne just becouse of his former posts.

Ever since week 2-3 I have spoken with Guildies that is thinking about leaving the game becouse they find some stuff with GW2 booring and they mostly also say that the game is dieing becouse they havent seen alot of Guildies online for a while (1-3 Weeks). I have tried to have them come back in a few days saying that there will be and update soon or there will be the new living story next Teuseday and so on. Those who come back is still always leaving and coming back for new LS and Updates.

So in my experience in this game is that, people do leave… Maps are empty atleast during this long Feature pack break… And Feature pack didn’t give many people to come back it was more aimed to get new people online. So our latest update that made people log on was July 29… So ofc people has stopped playing (For a while), I myself hasent been very active during this break and I don’t like the long breaks but I think they are the very true reason to why we do not see as much activity now.

This Halloween is pretty lame too as it is more or less the same as last year and same achievments … Just some new fluff stuff to farm for… Meh… So I think not enough players will Come back now iether and say I will await November 4 instead.

I do not beleave this game is dieing, I left a game I thought was dieing, forums was even more doom and gloomy as this and they make cutbacks all the time but 2 years later the game is still alive and I think a new Expac is on the way.

Edgar, I never claimed people don’t leave this game. All I’ve said is that people start playing and people come back to make up for it. It’s a bit of a revolving door. But some people who come back like it better then second time (and obviously some don’t).

As with my of my posts, I’m not trying to convince the people convinced of something. That, I agree with you, is pointless.

I’m counterpointing those posts for people who lurk who may not have seen the other side of the story.

Those are the people I’m targeting. And I’ve had people thank me for it in the past. People do lurk and they need to see both sides of the story.

Then they can make up their own minds.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Shhh! Vayne doesn’t tolerate objections. You should know that after reading through his posting history :P

I guess personal attacks are all you can do when you have nothing left to say that’s actually on topic or accurate.

People have been telling you since page one that those numbers are not representative. You chose to ignore it. I told you that the game feels more empty and tried to make the point that even if what you are saying is right, for me and the people I play with the game feels mor empty. You tried to prove a subjective opinion wrong.

That alone shows what kind of person you are Not that anyone who frequents the forums doesn’t already know that.
Instead of attacking anyone who isn’t of your opinion, try a middle ground: You think that the number you give show a trend. Other people don’t. Accept that.

you guys dont get statistics, you dont actually need to take all statistics to find out what the truth is. If you look at a representive sample, you do generally find useful information.
The only one that specifically bothers me, is overwolf, and thats because they entered a partnership with anet, and because they decide activity based on having logged in while using an overwolf app (like teamspeak) within the last month.

Point is, he is right, you dont need to poll everyone at a pretty good idea whats going on. Perfect example is exit polls for elections, which usually give a pretty good idea whats going on (not always perfect but good enough) Quality control also tends to use representive samples.

lets say rapter tracked 10,000 people who randomly use their app, 2000 bought guild wars, later you see 500 people still playing it.
No it doesnt mean GW lost 75% of its population, but it does tell you there was a signifigant drop off. lets say it climbs back up to 2100, it tells you that GW is trending upward.

The only time the info gets messed up, is when for some reason the people they track no longer become a random sampling, lets say rapt bashes anet every day, or the rapt app starts causing gw to crash.

anyhow, i dont agree with everything vayne says, but studying the trends here is not wrong, and likely his statements regarding how comparitively successful is accurate. I would not be surprised if FF is only doing a little better (in pure logins) than gw2, or if archeage is fairly popular right now.

phys.7689:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Shhh! Vayne doesn’t tolerate objections. You should know that after reading through his posting history :P

I guess personal attacks are all you can do when you have nothing left to say that’s actually on topic or accurate.

People have been telling you since page one that those numbers are not representative. You chose to ignore it. I told you that the game feels more empty and tried to make the point that even if what you are saying is right, for me and the people I play with the game feels mor empty. You tried to prove a subjective opinion wrong.

That alone shows what kind of person you are Not that anyone who frequents the forums doesn’t already know that.
Instead of attacking anyone who isn’t of your opinion, try a middle ground: You think that the number you give show a trend. Other people don’t. Accept that.

you guys dont get statistics, you dont actually need to take all statistics to find out what the truth is. If you look at a representive sample, you do generally find useful information.
The only one that specifically bothers me, is overwolf, and thats because they entered a partnership with anet, and because they decide activity based on having logged in while using an overwolf app (like teamspeak) within the last month.

Point is, he is right, you dont need to poll everyone at a pretty good idea whats going on. Perfect example is exit polls for elections, which usually give a pretty good idea whats going on (not always perfect but good enough) Quality control also tends to use representive samples.

lets say rapter tracked 10,000 people who randomly use their app, 2000 bought guild wars, later you see 500 people still playing it.
No it doesnt mean GW lost 75% of its population, but it does tell you there was a signifigant drop off. lets say it climbs back up to 2100, it tells you that GW is trending upward.

The only time the info gets messed up, is when for some reason the people they track no longer become a random sampling, lets say rapt bashes anet every day, or the rapt app starts causing gw to crash.

anyhow, i dont agree with everything vayne says, but studying the trends here is not wrong, and likely his statements regarding how comparitively successful is accurate. I would not be surprised if FF is only doing a little better (in pure logins) than gw2, or if archeage is fairly popular right now.

Also, if it were only one place that said this stuff, you’d really have to suspect it, but it’s three and they largely parallel each other.

Guild Wars 2 seems to generally move in the same direction on all of them…up or down. Individually each might be circumspect, but three different sources…that’s good enough for me.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Lol, understandable. It’s easier to be sloppy to spread misinformation like you did rather than to do real research and post facts.

I posted lots of facts you’ve completely ignored. Why ignore them?

If the game is doing so badly, why did NcSoft sack a bunch of people from NCsoft west but leave Anet untouched by the layoffs?

Why does the quarterly report still show a profitable game?

These are things you can ignore all you want, but they won’t go away.

None of these had anything to do with you being wrong about the Reddit “stats”.
You can try to put words in my mouth and character assassination, but the fact remains: You were wrong to include Reddit “stats”. Research 101. No need to be so salty, buddy.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Lol, understandable. It’s easier to be sloppy to spread misinformation like you did rather than to do real research and post facts.

I posted lots of facts you’ve completely ignored. Why ignore them?

If the game is doing so badly, why did NcSoft sack a bunch of people from NCsoft west but leave Anet untouched by the layoffs?

Why does the quarterly report still show a profitable game?

These are things you can ignore all you want, but they won’t go away.

None of these had anything to do with you being wrong about the Reddit “stats”.
You can try to put words in my mouth and character assassination, but the fact remains: You were wrong to include Reddit “stats”. Research 101. No need to be so salty, buddy.

What I wrote in the reddit stats was absolutely 100% true at the time I wrote them. I never made any claim except these are the stats at this moment. I didn’t look further, because it’s not the main thrust or even purpose of the thread.

It’s strictly a side issue for me.

I have a bunch of people saying something and I responded to it.

I don’t really CARE about the reddit stats. If 400 plus people are posting on the Guild Wars 2 site even at off hours that only supports what I’ve been saying anyway. It’s not a trivial amount of people.

So yeah, if FF has more posters on than Guild Wars 2 most of the time, that’s fine. Doesn’t change what I’ve said one wit, as I’ve said before.

If you can’t see what the thread is about, that’s okay. It’s about deducing the health of the game from available information.

It doesn’t matter if it’s 2 or 3 or 4. It’s in the ballpark of the most popular MMOs except for WoW. It’s not dying. It’s not in danger of dying (in spite of what people have implied in other threads).

Now unless you’re prepared to say I’m lying about the stats that I checked when I checked them, I’d say we’re done here.

You mislead people with your Reddit “stats”. That’s a big no, no to anybody who’s a real researcher.
I’m just here to make sure people are informed.
You’re welcome, by the way.

BlueZone.4236:

You mislead people with your Reddit “stats”. That’s a big no, no to anybody who’s a real researcher.
I’m just here to make sure people are informed.
You’re welcome, by the way.

I don’t think people are misled. The game is doing fine. It’s what I came here to say. But thanks for coming by and setting the record straight.

wasted.6817:

I’am surprised mod haven’t locked this thread yet. It completely derailed since yday.

Since this is a whiteknight thread they won’t lock it so many people can see how great everything is. Threads that say bad things about the game, even though it is well argumented etc. etc. will get locked really quick(I’m pointing at a lot of threads in the past that just said some things about the game they don’t like to hear, but are really facts), or they will just get piled up in a huge merge thread(look at the traits thread).

That’s just the sad reality about mod’s and devs thats going on on these forums.

Illuminati.2431:

wasted.6817:

I’am surprised mod haven’t locked this thread yet. It completely derailed since yday.

Since this is a whiteknight thread they won’t lock it so many people can see how great everything is. Threads that say bad things about the game, even though it is well argumented etc. etc. will get locked really quick(I’m pointing at a lot of threads in the past that just said some things about the game they don’t like to hear, but are really facts), or they will just get piled up in a huge merge thread(look at the traits thread).

That’s just the sad reality about mod’s and devs thats going on on these forums.

They haven’t locked it because it’s a weekend, and I’m sure when they come back they will. It happens every weekend it seems.

phys.7689:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Shhh! Vayne doesn’t tolerate objections. You should know that after reading through his posting history :P

I guess personal attacks are all you can do when you have nothing left to say that’s actually on topic or accurate.

People have been telling you since page one that those numbers are not representative. You chose to ignore it. I told you that the game feels more empty and tried to make the point that even if what you are saying is right, for me and the people I play with the game feels mor empty. You tried to prove a subjective opinion wrong.

That alone shows what kind of person you are Not that anyone who frequents the forums doesn’t already know that.
Instead of attacking anyone who isn’t of your opinion, try a middle ground: You think that the number you give show a trend. Other people don’t. Accept that.

you guys dont get statistics, you dont actually need to take all statistics to find out what the truth is. If you look at a representive sample, you do generally find useful information.
The only one that specifically bothers me, is overwolf, and thats because they entered a partnership with anet, and because they decide activity based on having logged in while using an overwolf app (like teamspeak) within the last month.

Point is, he is right, you dont need to poll everyone at a pretty good idea whats going on. Perfect example is exit polls for elections, which usually give a pretty good idea whats going on (not always perfect but good enough) Quality control also tends to use representive samples.

lets say rapter tracked 10,000 people who randomly use their app, 2000 bought guild wars, later you see 500 people still playing it.
No it doesnt mean GW lost 75% of its population, but it does tell you there was a signifigant drop off. lets say it climbs back up to 2100, it tells you that GW is trending upward.

The only time the info gets messed up, is when for some reason the people they track no longer become a random sampling, lets say rapt bashes anet every day, or the rapt app starts causing gw to crash.

anyhow, i dont agree with everything vayne says, but studying the trends here is not wrong, and likely his statements regarding how comparitively successful is accurate. I would not be surprised if FF is only doing a little better (in pure logins) than gw2, or if archeage is fairly popular right now.

I do understand the concept of measuring statistics based on representative samples. That is why I dont put much weight on these sites. There is nothing presented to demonstrate that their sampling methodology generates a representative result.

Listening to them is not significantly, if any, more rasonable than going by members of my GW1 multi-guild alliance retention rate in GW2. One guild has perhaps a 5% retention rate here. That matches up to the retention rate in a second guild from the alliance. A third guild has a lower rate. Others in the alliance even lower. Now that I have examples from multiple sources should I take them as representative samples that demonstrate a less than 1% retention rate over all for GW2?

Of course not.

Vayne.8563:

They’re good methods of measuring trends. Why is this so hard to understand?

They’re bad methods of measuring trends. Not completely devoid of any kind of merit, but on their own they are pretty poor. We’ve been over this. The data they present is the popularity, per game, of their product per user. I see too many websites citing these statistics as examples of trends in gaming habits when they are not representing that data.

I did some quick calculations based on the latest stated concurrency of users of those overlays versus games where we know exactly how many people are playing them (such as DOTA2, which has over 700,000 concurrent users online according to Steam’s figures) and the mis-representation of population numbers and trends was evident at every turn. According to their lists, DOTA2 should be between half and a fifth as popular as it actually is.

how large is the sample size from those hours played tools?