Guild Wars 2

So maybe it’s just me, but I realized a few moments ago that the abundance of waypoints in every map makes the experience feel less authentic.
Maps don’t feel like wilderness anymore- if you can port to 17 different places on a single map at your will, it doesn’t feel epic or grand. Nowhere is remote. I get that people don’t want to run so much, but it’s partly the journey that makes an area worth getting to.

So I propose swapping 90% of wp’s for res shrines.

Now I bet that this would kitten some people off, but just take a second to think about what it would be like without such easy access to EVERY area in every map.
I think it would tremendously help the game and the overall feel.
Thoughts?

edit- Okay, why do people continue to lambaste me for “forcing my playstyle on others”?
THIS IS DISCUSSION. IDEAS. WAYS TO WORK AROUND THE RUNNING ISSUE. PLEASE.

Just don’t use them. Simple. There are people, like me, who use them to save time on days when game time is minimal. On days when I want to feel the immersion, I have the choice to not use them.

Thought about and no thank you As always, it’s you choice to take a WP or not. Giving players the option to use them or not I believe is the best way to go.

No. I like the WPs as is. With events and what not on timers, and even then being burned through quickly by the zerg, having to run across the whole map would cause more problems then it’s worth. Say, if you died at Teq, and then had to run back across the whole map to get back into the fight, either you could miss out on the event, or cause it to fail if enough people died and had to run for forever.

Also people are still upset about the few broken WPs in the world as it is, simply because they have to run a bit longer to get to where they need to go.

Sorry, reducing the amount of WPs I feel would cause more issues than it’s worth, and actually further the cause of those who want mounts with speed buffs.

I agree it might be more immersive, if hypothetically it did happen I wouldn’t be raging about it.. but we would probably see way more mount threads than we already do. And omg do we have enough of those already.

I quite enjoy silverwastes for it’s relatively low amount of WP’s. You actually have to battle across the wastes and take stock of your surroundings.

GW2 is an amazingly beautiful world that gets overlooked due to convenience.

No.

If you don’t want to use them and have the time to run across the map, write down what 2-3 WP’s are acceptable and only use them.

Not everyone has the time to run across the entire map. Not everyone finds immersion important. Don’t force your playstyle onto others.

seabhac.5346:

Just don’t use them. Simple. There are people, like me, who use them to save time on days when game time is minimal. On days when I want to feel the immersion, I have the choice to not use them.

That’s mostly how I play. Occasionally I like to get places quickly, but for the most part, I’m happy running, swimming, climbing wherever I need to go. Mostly because I’m that stingy.

Certainly seems like if it’s an issue of immersion for someone, they can just choose not to keep up with the Jones’ and just forgo using them. Everyone wins.

Mots people like the WPs, because they like convenience. If you don’t like them, then don’t use them. Simple.

Also, if most of the WPs were removed, then all those annoying mount threads would have legitimate reasons to whine…

It’s not about choosing not to use them, it’s about where the players are, what they’re doing, and why..
People don’t give a kitten about dying in this game because they can res at a WP 15 seconds from where they fell.
Anyone play GW1? Yes, it is almost an entirely different game, but imagine how it would have been with WP’s everywhere… awful.
I’m not saying take away ALL of them, I’m saying take away most; even if there were 2 in every map, it wouldn’t be more than a 2 minute run to where you died, assuming they were placed evenly.

No one has patience anymore.

Seera.5916:

No.

If you don’t want to use them and have the time to run across the map, write down what 2-3 WP’s are acceptable and only use them.

Not everyone has the time to run across the entire map. Not everyone finds immersion important. Don’t force your playstyle onto others.

You’re sure hostile… it’s just a discussion.

They should just allow a player to type in an X, Y coordinate and instantly arrive at his/her destination. Taking waypoints still takes too long.

You know, for those days when I do not have time to play the game.

I’d be in favor of this if they implemented Mounts.

No thanks. I do care about dying, it costs money to use wp’s and it takes time to get back where I was. Regardless of there being a lot of waypoints.

If the walk back takes ages I’d just be more infuriated by cheap deaths, like when you get that lovely fall-damage bug going down a slope or something. And it certainly will kill any probability might take a risk or two.

If you don’t like it, than you don’t use them. Don’t take away other players choices to or to not use waypoints because of how you want the game to be.

Kross.6428:

…all those annoying mount threads…

Oofta.8036:

I’d be in favor of this if they implemented Mounts.

See? I told you. No WPs, people will want flaming majenta unicorns with jetpacks… or whatever else catches their fancy…

eye floater.7140:

No one has patience anymore.

If you’ve read the responses:

Some people do not have the TIME to run across the map. Some people to get the most out of their limited play time have to use waypoints.

And what about when the waypoint goes contested? Evenly spaced means nothing if the closest one goes contested.

And what about maps like those in Orr?

Sorry, but your idea does not work for this game.

It’s not a patience thing. It’s a make the most of the time given to play issue. If I’m not in a hurry and I’m not several maps away, I’ll likely run to the event. Provided it’s not a world boss about to spawn and it’s not do events in this map day and it’s a low level one.

Your idea also punishes new players who are more apt to die. Now, not only do they have to try again to do what they were doing, but now they have to run through a larger area to do so. Possibly through enemies that they had died against before and just barely defeated.

Do not force your playstyle onto others when you do not know the reasoning behind their playstyle. Stop assuming it’s impatience that drives the usage of WP’s. Not all players care about immersion and without the waypoints to get them from point a to point b quickly would quickly get bored and stop playing the game. Not all players have the time to run from point a to point b, and would stop playing the game if most of their time in game was spent running and not playing.

That’s the beauty of having many WP’s. Those that don’t want to use them don’t have to. Those that wish to use them, can use them. Win/win for both groups of people. I honestly don’t see why you’re trying to turn the situation into a win/lose. Where the only people who win are those with the time and enjoy immersion (or whatever reason you wish for not using the WP) and everyone else loses.

Well one or the other. I like it as it is now. I’m not a “mount” person but I’m certainly not a “run across the world to get to a dungeon” person either. If you can find a viable 3rd alternative I’d be all for hearing that as well.

stayBlind.7849:

They should just allow a player to type in an X, Y coordinate and instantly arrive at his/her destination. Taking waypoints still takes too long.

You know, for those days when I do not have time to play the game.

You want me to have to type coordinates?? Why can’t I just double click anywhere on the world map and instantly be taken to that very spot?

Now that I think of it, that would be really useful for Jumping Puzzles…

eye floater.7140:

Anyone play GW1? Yes, it is almost an entirely different game, but imagine how it would have been with WP’s everywhere… awful.

I would have liked it better if there were more WPs in GW1. Having to spend 20 minutes running back across the map, fighting everything AGAIN to get to where I was was a giant pain in the kitten. That one of the main reason I have a hard time trying to play it again.

Hrmm could reduce the waypoints but in return bring in skills like the old EQ Druid/Wizard or the WoW Warlock and port/summon people. Could be a new Mesmer skill. Just spitballing, don’t take this seriously.

I use the waypoint system to fast travel to where the action is…other than that, i pretty much ignore them – it’s probably the same for most players so i don’t see why you’ve such a problem with it OP.

‘the abundance of waypoints in every map makes the experience feel less authentic’

Just how authentic should an imaginary world be anyway?

Eye Floater, Seera isn’t being rude at all. I sense no hostility in his/her words. They are contributing to the discussion and providing legit reasons for why missing WPs would be detrimental to certain play styles.

Seera is not using any offensive language at all. Don’t get offended so easily. :\

Oooo Vitus brings up a good point. By what is the OP basing Authenticity on? This world has always had waypoints since we started playing when it opened. So by removing waypoints aren’t we then in turn destroying the authenticity of the world?

Kross.6428:

Eye Floater, Seera isn’t being rude at all. I sense no hostility in his/her words. They are contributing to the discussion and providing legit reasons for why missing WPs would be detrimental to certain play styles.

Seera is not using any offensive language at all. Don’t get offended so easily. :\

You don’t notice the arrogant undertones? I know people like that, they’re elitist know-it-all’s who never laugh. Don’t be fooled!

Be careful, this could turn into a mounts discussion…

RoseofGilead.8907:

eye floater.7140:

What crawled up your kitten
FOR THE LAST TIME, IT"S JUST A DISCUSSION. IT"S NOT HAPPENING.
Realism is dying.
“Oh no, I died and now I have to run all the way back there”
Deal with it. Convenience is overrated.
I wanted to talk about this idea, and that’s what’s happening- the least you can do is contribute without acting like an kitten.
Can you do that?

Seera said nothing rude nor implied any hostility.

You’re awful at reading people.

eye floater.7140:

It’s not about choosing not to use them, it’s about where the players are, what they’re doing, and why..
People don’t give a kitten about dying in this game because they can res at a WP 15 seconds from where they fell.
Anyone play GW1? Yes, it is almost an entirely different game, but imagine how it would have been with WP’s everywhere… awful.
I’m not saying take away ALL of them, I’m saying take away most; even if there were 2 in every map, it wouldn’t be more than a 2 minute run to where you died, assuming they were placed evenly.

Isn’t one of the biggest gripes floating around these forums that people don’t use the waypoints to port out when they should?

Take Teq for example; people regularly kitten that dead players aren’t porting out and running back like they should, even with a way point “15 seconds away” as you point out.

Now lets remove 90% of the waypoints from that map and lets see what happens. Oh look, its exactly like whats happening in the SWs when people die against the Vinewrath. It makes the issue just that much worse.

I played GW1, yes it was a very different experience, but it’s design was different too. You can’t really compare the two in this respect because porting from town to town isn’t exactly the same as porting from waypoint to waypoint. Now, if you want to compare them to rez shrines…sure, to an extent. But in GW1, you typically weren’t more than 10 or 15 seconds from the closest rez shrine either.

And ABSOLUTELY NO! to adding mounts. kitten go play WoW or something

Merge or flush?

eye floater.7140:

Kross.6428:

Eye Floater, Seera isn’t being rude at all. I sense no hostility in his/her words. They are contributing to the discussion and providing legit reasons for why missing WPs would be detrimental to certain play styles.

Seera is not using any offensive language at all. Don’t get offended so easily. :\

You don’t notice the arrogant undertones? I know people like that, they’re elitist know-it-all’s who never laugh. Don’t be fooled!

I don’t think anybody but you sees that. Your response to their post comes off as you flaming them because they happen to disagree with you. You wanted a discussion and they providely their position in a well written post. And now you’re being hostile towards those that point out this.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I played GW1, yes it was a very different experience, but it’s design was different too. You can’t really compare the two in this respect because porting from town to town isn’t exactly the same as porting from waypoint to waypoint. Now, if you want to compare them to rez shrines…sure, to an extent. But in GW1, you typically weren’t more than 10 or 15 seconds from the closest rez shrine either.

That’s what I was going to say about GW1, as well. It’s a very, very different set up, and it’s hard to compare the two when it comes to waypoints.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Seera said nothing rude nor implied any hostility.

Im with Eye on this one, the way its worded is slightly hostile, at some points, but thats it.

Im against Eye however on removing waypoints and adding mounts. Just no, i like the waypoints, i hate mounts however, and hope to never see them in game in anything but a cosmetic thing that cant be used in combat.

I was wondering when the next “I demand mounts” thread would show up.

Well this is getting very entertaining. Anyone have some popcorn? I’ll chime in to stay on topic with, “Give Mesmers cross map Portals”! “No Mounts”! “No Way Points”!

Ayrilana.1396:

eye floater.7140:

Kross.6428:

Eye Floater, Seera isn’t being rude at all. I sense no hostility in his/her words. They are contributing to the discussion and providing legit reasons for why missing WPs would be detrimental to certain play styles.

Seera is not using any offensive language at all. Don’t get offended so easily. :\

You don’t notice the arrogant undertones? I know people like that, they’re elitist know-it-all’s who never laugh. Don’t be fooled!

I don’t think anybody but you sees that. Your response to their post comes off as you flaming them because they happen to disagree with you. You wanted a discussion and they providely their position in a well written post. And now you’re being hostile towards those that point out this.

This. There were no arrogant or hostile undertones in the post at all. Was perfectly acceptable for this forum.

I was actually kidding about the mounts, I just put it in the title for kittens.

And if they don’t add mounts they could use several skill choices for adding a quick temporary speed boost beyond the 33% we experience now.

It’s great on other titles. For example, on my mage on my other game I have rocket boots from engineering, a talent that gives me a temp run speed boost similar to that (its like 5 seconds of it too), a teleport that makes be bounce forward, and run speed spell that makes me run faster for a few seconds. I rotate those in a macro when on foot and it helps keep me highly mobile.

I tried doing something similar on my thief on this game it’s just not the same really. We need more movement options at the very very least to make characters more mobile.

eye floater.7140:

So maybe it’s just me, but I realized a few moments ago that the abundance of waypoints in every map makes the experience feel less authentic.

I don’t think it’s just you, but I also believe that people like you should play a different game. Most of us aren’t in this game for an “authentic” experience. I mean, if the experience was truly authentic, your character would be forced to eat three meals a day, sleep six hours per night, take bathroom breaks from time to time, and a myriad of other mundane chores to stay functional. I drive an hour and a half each day getting to/from work, and I don’t need a virtual commute in-game on top of that. If you don’t want to waypoint then don’t. Please don’t ask ArenaNet to make the game less fun for everyone else just so that it can be authentic to you.

Hmm…
‘Add mounts’, ‘res shrines’ /yawn
Someone wake me up when he gets to cookies!

eye floater.7140:

Seera.5916:

eye floater.7140:

No one has patience anymore.

If you’ve read the responses:

Some people do not have the TIME to run across the map. Some people to get the most out of their limited play time have to use waypoints.

And what about when the waypoint goes contested? Evenly spaced means nothing if the closest one goes contested.

And what about maps like those in Orr?

Sorry, but your idea does not work for this game.

It’s not a patience thing. It’s a make the most of the time given to play issue. If I’m not in a hurry and I’m not several maps away, I’ll likely run to the event. Provided it’s not a world boss about to spawn and it’s not do events in this map day and it’s a low level one.

Your idea also punishes new players who are more apt to die. Now, not only do they have to try again to do what they were doing, but now they have to run through a larger area to do so. Possibly through enemies that they had died against before and just barely defeated.

Do not force your playstyle onto others when you do not know the reasoning behind their playstyle. Stop assuming it’s impatience that drives the usage of WP’s. Not all players care about immersion and without the waypoints to get them from point a to point b quickly would quickly get bored and stop playing the game. Not all players have the time to run from point a to point b, and would stop playing the game if most of their time in game was spent running and not playing.

That’s the beauty of having many WP’s. Those that don’t want to use them don’t have to. Those that wish to use them, can use them. Win/win for both groups of people. I honestly don’t see why you’re trying to turn the situation into a win/lose. Where the only people who win are those with the time and enjoy immersion (or whatever reason you wish for not using the WP) and everyone else loses.

What crawled up your kitten
FOR THE LAST TIME, IT"S JUST A DISCUSSION. IT"S NOT HAPPENING.
Realism is dying.
“Oh no, I died and now I have to run all the way back there”
Deal with it. Convenience is overrated.
I wanted to talk about this idea, and that’s what’s happening- the least you can do is contribute without acting like an kitten.
Can you do that?

I am contributing without acting like a kitten thank you very much.

I’m sorry if anything I said offended you, I surely didn’t mean to.

But you can’t keep those who disagree with your position from participating in the thread. Please at least acknowledge that there are downsides to your idea and try to find ways to counteract that.

Oh, and no mounts. That’s what waypoints are for. You want realism and people to stop and smell the roses, right? Mounts would stop that. Mounts aren’t in the lore so it would be against immersion and against the lore of the game. So sorry, based on your reasoning for removing waypoints, adding mounts would not be a valid compromise to the lack of time/don’t care for immersion crowd.

Waypoints fit the lore. And those that want to be immersed in the game, can forgo the usage of them.

I think that people miss a lot of the content by being able to instantly travel to their destination- if everyone was forced to run, think of all the content that would be brought back to life! Think of the possibilities that would open up! Silverwastes is kind of an example of that, and it seems to be working out just fine.

Seera.5916:

eye floater.7140:

Seera.5916:

eye floater.7140:

No one has patience anymore.

If you’ve read the responses:

Some people do not have the TIME to run across the map. Some people to get the most out of their limited play time have to use waypoints.

And what about when the waypoint goes contested? Evenly spaced means nothing if the closest one goes contested.

And what about maps like those in Orr?

Sorry, but your idea does not work for this game.

It’s not a patience thing. It’s a make the most of the time given to play issue. If I’m not in a hurry and I’m not several maps away, I’ll likely run to the event. Provided it’s not a world boss about to spawn and it’s not do events in this map day and it’s a low level one.

Your idea also punishes new players who are more apt to die. Now, not only do they have to try again to do what they were doing, but now they have to run through a larger area to do so. Possibly through enemies that they had died against before and just barely defeated.

Do not force your playstyle onto others when you do not know the reasoning behind their playstyle. Stop assuming it’s impatience that drives the usage of WP’s. Not all players care about immersion and without the waypoints to get them from point a to point b quickly would quickly get bored and stop playing the game. Not all players have the time to run from point a to point b, and would stop playing the game if most of their time in game was spent running and not playing.

That’s the beauty of having many WP’s. Those that don’t want to use them don’t have to. Those that wish to use them, can use them. Win/win for both groups of people. I honestly don’t see why you’re trying to turn the situation into a win/lose. Where the only people who win are those with the time and enjoy immersion (or whatever reason you wish for not using the WP) and everyone else loses.

What crawled up your kitten
FOR THE LAST TIME, IT"S JUST A DISCUSSION. IT"S NOT HAPPENING.
Realism is dying.
“Oh no, I died and now I have to run all the way back there”
Deal with it. Convenience is overrated.
I wanted to talk about this idea, and that’s what’s happening- the least you can do is contribute without acting like an kitten.
Can you do that?

I am contributing without acting like a kitten thank you very much.

I’m sorry if anything I said offended you, I surely didn’t mean to.

But you can’t keep those who disagree with your position from participating in the thread. Please at least acknowledge that there are downsides to your idea and try to find ways to counteract that.

Oh, and no mounts. That’s what waypoints are for. You want realism and people to stop and smell the roses, right? Mounts would stop that. Mounts aren’t in the lore so it would be against immersion and against the lore of the game. So sorry, based on your reasoning for removing waypoints, adding mounts would not be a valid compromise to the lack of time/don’t care for immersion crowd.

Waypoints fit the lore. And those that want to be immersed in the game, can forgo the usage of them.

Yeah, I was kidding about the mounts- I don’t want them either.
Of course there are flaws with this, lots of them, but there are flaws with every idea; talking about it and discussing it with other people raises new ideas and options, and that’s why I posted this.
I’m sorry I raged at you- you are contributing, I just dislike it when people are super super serious, though that’s my problem, not everyone else’s.

Vitus Dance.4509:

Hmm…
‘Add mounts’, ‘res shrines’ /yawn
Someone wake me up when he gets to cookies!

That’s an excellent idea.

Vitus Dance.4509:

‘the abundance of waypoints in every map makes the experience feel less authentic’

Just how authentic should an imaginary world be anyway?

I will say this… for me, the tradeoff for the convenience of waypoints is a reduced involvement with locations. I spend a lot of my play time warping into an area, doing an event, and then warping halfway across the world to do something else. As a result, I don’t really need to learn what is “here”.

In games where I couldn’t do that, location was more important. I don’t want to spend the majority of my play time hiking across the world, so once I’m done with this, what else is nearby, what is between where I am and where I want to go? As a result, I ended up learning the game world much in more detail than I do here where I just waypoint past everything other than the big events.

Bernie.8674:

eye floater.7140:

So maybe it’s just me, but I realized a few moments ago that the abundance of waypoints in every map makes the experience feel less authentic.

I don’t think it’s just you, but I also believe that people like you should play a different game. Most of us aren’t in this game for an “authentic” experience. I mean, if the experience was truly authentic, your character would be forced to eat three meals a day, sleep six hours per night, take bathroom breaks from time to time, and a myriad of other mundane chores to stay functional. I drive an hour and a half each day getting to/from work, and I don’t need a virtual commute in-game on top of that. If you don’t want to waypoint then don’t. Please don’t ask ArenaNet to make the game less fun for everyone else just so that it can be authentic to you.

You know when you begin a game? It’s new, it’s beautiful, you’ve never done any of it before.
Well that feeling of excitement and wonder wears off pretty quickly for most people, I think- after that, it’s all about getting money (for many people). The game loses it’s grandeur, and you never (yes) stop and smell the roses. Not that everyone wants to of course, but I think that something like swapping wp’s for res shrines would strengthen that part of the world… it would re-immerse the veteran players in the content they now take for granted.

eye floater.7140:

I think that people miss a lot of the content by being able to instantly travel to their destination- if everyone was forced to run, think of all the content that would be brought back to life! Think of the possibilities that would open up! Silverwastes is kind of an example of that, and it seems to be working out just fine.

And think of the people who would stop playing the game because they don’t have the time to run across the map to do things.

And think of the times where you have to ask to get help doing something?

Right now, if I pass someone needing help, I don’t mind helping, where I’m going is not far or I’ve got the time.

Under your change, that chance gets drastically lowered. They could be running to get to somewhere so they can progress on their character before they have to get off. Or make it to world boss before it dies. Or be sick and tired of running through the same part of Orr because they themselves are struggling at something and so they just want to get back to the location again.

Or to get more people at an event to kill it before the timer runs out. Such as world bosses on timers during off peak times.

Gonna have to go with “no” for this suggestion.

If you want to experience more of the maps and walk rather than waypoint, no one’s stopping you from doing so. But don’t force everyone to follow that by removing them outright.

Electro.4173:

Gonna have to go with “no” for this suggestion.

If you want to experience more of the maps and walk rather than waypoint, no one’s stopping you from doing so. But don’t force everyone to follow that by removing them outright.

Please read the responses first before commenting.

eye floater.7140:

I think that people miss a lot of the content by being able to instantly travel to their destination- if everyone was forced to run, think of all the content that would be brought back to life! Think of the possibilities that would open up! Silverwastes is kind of an example of that, and it seems to be working out just fine.

But people have to go through and experience the content to open up the waypoints in the first place. If you choose to, you can certainly do it again. But being forced to do it over and over after you’ve already done it once is recipe for disaster. Everything in the game is optional, even the first time. But after you’ve done it once, even more so. You completed say all dungeon paths and story on AC. Now unless you want specific rewards (tokens, gold, etc.) there is no reason you ever have to do it again.

Now lets say, in order to do anything in Plains of Ashford, you HAVE to go through AC first. How many people would be in Plains of Ashford? Would it be worthwhile to have to find a group, run a dungeon, just to be able to be get into the zone? I don’t think so.

While this is a hypothetical situation, the principle is the same. No one should be forced to do certain content repeatedly just to be able to do a boss, an event, or explore.

pdavis.8031:

eye floater.7140:

I think that people miss a lot of the content by being able to instantly travel to their destination- if everyone was forced to run, think of all the content that would be brought back to life! Think of the possibilities that would open up! Silverwastes is kind of an example of that, and it seems to be working out just fine.

But people have to go through and experience the content to open up the waypoints in the first place. If you choose to, you can certainly do it again. But being forced to do it over and over after you’ve already done it once is recipe for disaster. Everything in the game is optional, even the first time. But after you’ve done it once, even more so. You completed say all dungeon paths and story on AC. Now unless you want specific rewards (tokens, gold, etc.) there is no reason you ever have to do it again.

Now lets say, in order to do anything in Plains of Ashford, you HAVE to go through AC first. How many people would be in Plains of Ashford? Would it be worthwhile to have to find a group, run a dungeon, just to be able to be get into the zone? I don’t think so.

While this is a hypothetical situation, the principle is the same. No one should be forced to do certain content repeatedly just to be able to do a boss, an event, or explore.

It’s just… A little more running.