Guild Wars 2

3) Mechanics – I agree that one shot mechanics suck. They suck terribly, and I really hate them. I have not done a lot of dungeons, nor have I spent oodles of time in fractals so most of your examples don’t ring any bells for me. Still, I agree that we could use some better mechanics for some of the fights in the game. It’s something I’ve actually asked for and discussed in several threads. We don’t need “hard” as it is defined by other games….higher armor, higher hp, and one shottting, it is not fun. It’s monotonous and boring. However, this is the gear treadmill mentality…we get stronger armor, the foes get more hp and more punch to counter it. snooze We need mechanics that will require us to be more than just pure dps. To utilize control and support (and I’m not talking the joke of zerkers “yeah we use support and control” skills), I mean where we need to have people specced for those things. Yes, this requires some work on both the foes, and on the scaling of those attributes, but it can be done. Fights that require strategy, team tactics, etc. I can only hope that they will give us some of these things as time moves forward. GW1 wasn’t perfect at launch, or in it’s first year. I didn’t expect this one to be either. So I’ll watch, and wait, and see how they grow.

4) Content. I play the LS for the story personally. True, its not the best story, but hopefully as the patches get larger, and they figure out more ways of presenting it to us, it will get better. I’m not huge on jumping puzzles myself, although I don’t mind the mini games. I think they LS provides enough options to appease most people, since we all like different things. For me, the LS has been slowly getting better, I have my fingers crossed that it will continue to do so.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

4) Content. I play the LS for the story personally. True, its not the best story, but hopefully as the patches get larger, and they figure out more ways of presenting it to us, it will get better. I’m not huge on jumping puzzles myself, although I don’t mind the mini games. I think they LS provides enough options to appease most people, since we all like different things. For me, the LS has been slowly getting better, I have my fingers crossed that it will continue to do so.

I actually maybe should not have said anything about that one, in my entire post I sort of feel guilty about criticizing the content. Anet has beautiful graphics and the visuals they release are great, the jumping puzzles keep me very entertained are are main reason I play this game so much. I just am bum hurt that there isn’t any progress based content, but the type of content they release I understand is still content suited for a very huge majority of players.

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys.

I better consult the forums next time before choosing gears! Or I might end up an imbecile next time

@Evans:
I feel ashamed for that. May the gods have mercy on my soul.

Doesn’t all the content you do to get to level 80 count as progress-based content? I’m obviously clueless because I only played WoW for a few hours back when it released. I found it way too cartoony and the community too mean-spirited for my taste. Luckily, I was trying out Guild Wars at the same time, and chose that game for my online video-gaming pleasure. And here I am today! Clueless, but happy! =)

5) controls and responsiveness. I have encountered some of the issues you mention – getting caught in an animation, issues with disengaging a skill in order to dodge. While activating a dodge should cancel your current skill, it doesn’t always, although I have found that hitting esc (much like canceling a skill in gw1) will. Yes, I know, extra keystroke, those milliseconds could be the diff between life and death, but for now it works for me. This may or may not be something they can adjust / fix. I don’t know how their systems are set up. Of course, it could be something they are already looking at, as I know similar complaints have been brought up before.

6) Community. There is nothing wrong being a casual player. There is nothing wrong with not being absolutely the best player, or even striving to be the best player. This is a game, not a job. Some people treat it like a job, at which point they need to go play with other like minded players. You make it sound like the people that don’t want to go do dungeons, or go do fractals are somehow wrong, or bad, because that’s not what they enjoy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with those decisions. You play your way, they will play theirs.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

5) controls and responsiveness. I have encountered some of the issues you mention – getting caught in an animation, issues with disengaging a skill in order to dodge. While activating a dodge should cancel your current skill, it doesn’t always, although I have found that hitting esc (much like canceling a skill in gw1) will. Yes, I know, extra keystroke, those milliseconds could be the diff between life and death, but for now it works for me. This may or may not be something they can adjust / fix. I don’t know how their systems are set up. Of course, it could be something they are already looking at, as I know similar complaints have been brought up before.

6) Community. There is nothing wrong being a casual player. There is nothing wrong with not being absolutely the best player, or even striving to be the best player. This is a game, not a job. Some people treat it like a job, at which point they need to go play with other like minded players. You make it sound like the people that don’t want to go do dungeons, or go do fractals are somehow wrong, or bad, because that’s not what they enjoy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with those decisions. You play your way, they will play theirs.

I don’t mind casuals, though I probs have different understand of what casual means then other people, to me its just some one who plays less, not plays worse. In community part of my post I wanna say that people don’t understand faults and don’t point them out. If there were hundred of posts of people complaining about things, those things kitten right would be fixed. But as far a community thing goes though, your a ranger, have you ever got kicked out from a fractal group for being a ranger?

Thanks for reading and giving very constructive comments btw.

Ventrue.5731:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

4) Content. I play the LS for the story personally. True, its not the best story, but hopefully as the patches get larger, and they figure out more ways of presenting it to us, it will get better. I’m not huge on jumping puzzles myself, although I don’t mind the mini games. I think they LS provides enough options to appease most people, since we all like different things. For me, the LS has been slowly getting better, I have my fingers crossed that it will continue to do so.

I actually maybe should not have said anything about that one, in my entire post I sort of feel guilty about criticizing the content. Anet has beautiful graphics and the visuals they release are great, the jumping puzzles keep me very entertained are are main reason I play this game so much. I just am bum hurt that there isn’t any progress based content, but the type of content they release I understand is still content suited for a very huge majority of players.

Why then don’t you play WoW for the gear progression and GW2 for the real content? Seems like win-win.

Ventrue.5731:

1. Well, as I said, I mostly want to argue the extreme cases were one person does 4k dps and another 600. Being a ranger you have no reason not to go berserk since your at range, range by it self does less damage then melee and some people opt to go range while being tanky. I have no problem with the medium you describe, lets say power/precision/toughness – you get good amount of damage, you might not get one shot and you can melee and swap to range if you get low on hp. Thats smart play, I won’t call it skillful but it is smart enough and thats still very good.

Either gear/stats need some balancing, or other stats need some scaling work. I know people have called for adjusting how some stats scale, but maybe that’s not as easily done as many might think it would be. Perhaps simply toning down the zerker gear, because those 3 scale so well together, could bring it more into line with the other gears. Reducing the gap between armors, and making it not quite so “must have” by certain groups of people.

2. Well, the ranger was mostly an example, if your on a boss in a dungeon as a ranger very often you can just click 1 and then afk, if the boss is not on you, then pressing 2-5 will be a dps loss because of attacks hitting for same damage but slower, so your rotation is 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1. My argument there is not getting the most of your rotation by not pressing buttons, but the fact that there isn’t many buttons for pressing, making it boring. Still, you are right, those skills are useful if you need to kite. As I mentioned above, melee does more damage, and ranger 1h sword kills for damage, but its only a chasing weapon, player has little control during those auto attacks, he can swap targets for leaps but he can’t move during the auto attack 2 and 3. I have touched up on the fact that you need an easier way to cancel you attack animation cause it often kills people, thats why I never see 1h sword in dungeons, most melee rangers go 2h.

But does it really matter? Unless you’re running something for time, max dps all the time doesn’t matter. Honestly, to me, it’s more about just enjoying myself, and generally speaking the same goes for those I play with. When we do a dungeon, we kill everything in sight. Its not about how fast we can take it down, its about having a good time beating the crap out of it. (and boy you should see some of the smack talk in chat haha). At the boss, sure, I’m mainly auto attacking, but if my teammate needs to break out and heal, and the boss is still aggroed on him, a well timed stun, or cripple may give my teammate the space he needs to get out of dodge and heal. If the boss aggroes on me, 3 then 5 gets me out of harms way, saving my dodges for something potentially more important….like the big ol red ring on the floor. Its not about rotation, its not about always doing max dps. It’s about knowing when the additional functionality of your skills are best needed.

Take your warrior example, you said one skill applied and addition 4% dmg to your allies attacks yes? Don’t play warrior much, so haven’t had a chance to really learn those skills. Anyway, that additional 4% at the right time, could be so much more than just your typical auto attack, making the groups dps greater than what you would have done alone, but it sacrifices a little bit on your side. It balances out, if used properly.

Ventrue.5731:

I actually maybe should not have said anything about that one, in my entire post I sort of feel guilty about criticizing the content. Anet has beautiful graphics and the visuals they release are great, the jumping puzzles keep me very entertained are are main reason I play this game so much. I just am bum hurt that there isn’t any progress based content, but the type of content they release I understand is still content suited for a very huge majority of players.

LS isn’t perfect. Its enjoyable, and yes the graphics are beautiful but it could be so much more than it is. I still like it, and I love that Anets doing it, but they are hobbled by their player base. I mean, it would be amazing to see an actual Charr Meatoberfest in October. Charr don’t celebrate halloween, that’s a human thing, so it makes sense that something like that would overlap. But we’ll likely never see it happen, because the player base would blow a gasket. “Why are you doing 2 events at one time?!”

Anet has said that they will be giving us more skills and such, to introduce more horizontal progression. We should start seeing that sometime before the end of the year, that might help fix your progression hurt some. I just don’t want gear to be the main means of character progression. As I said, bigger numbers does not equate to better mechanics, nor better characters. You can progress your char without always needing bigger numbers.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Doesn’t all the content you do to get to level 80 count as progress-based content? I’m obviously clueless because I only played WoW for a few hours back when it released. I found it way too cartoony and the community too mean-spirited for my taste. Luckily, I was trying out Guild Wars at the same time, and chose that game for my online video-gaming pleasure. And here I am today! Clueless, but happy! =)

Well, wow leveling part is more about learning you class then enjoying the gameplay, gw2 has made an amazing job being one of few games actually fun to level. WoW gameplay pretty much begins at max lvl, you do a 5 man dungeons to get gear to 10/25 man raids. In raids you do first 3-4 bosses, maybe you will wipe on boss 5 for a few weeks because you ether not use to the fight and people die, or you lack gear and time out (enrage timer). You clear the raid, you progress to next tier raid.
If you play dota or league of legends, think of it as… Laning phase first and then objective based gameplay.

How ever I do not make any valid points there I guess, my complaint is not mostly about no content, but the type of content, In my eyes the game should provide players with both casual story content and improve of how fractal difficulty progresses OR provide with dungeons after fractals.

I am sorry here, I understand that this part is very much elitist wish of what kind of content I want.

Bubi.7942:

@Evans:
I feel ashamed for that. May the gods have mercy on my soul.

May Dwayna embrace you with her all transcending compassion.

No seriously, I find the whole berserker of gtfo mentality asinine. I agree that there are extremely poor stat combinations which a player can theoretically pick, but the whole game is built on mechanics which make player choices fool-proof.

marnick.4305:

Why then don’t you play WoW for the gear progression and GW2 for the real content? Seems like win-win.

The issue with wow is not weather or not the game is bad, its simple the same as it always was. I played wow for my share of years, I enjoyed it, I don’t regret it. But the problem is that I am a pve hero so I can’t play it casually, I had to do hard mode raids and after a while it became rinse and repeat. New raid came out – clear normal/clear hard/repeat for gear grind/get some achievements/wait for new content.

I could say that wow raiding is like gw2 fractals, after lv50 it probably gets too familiar to enjoy. I’ve quit wow back in cataclysm and mostly play dota2. The examples I use with wow is simple because people who play wow would understand them better, its easier for me to know of those examples as a wow player, and no matter how much people might hate wow here, its very hard to argue that wow has very well thought out mechanics. While gw2 is a great game with so many mechanics that need fixing.

I played many games, I can always criticize any game I played, I am sure that goes for every one here, we all know what we would like to see improve in the game, but when we see some one else complain but not have same ideals we think “he is not complaining because of the right reasons”, if you add any of your ideals to that persons complain its like your supporting he’s ideals too, and since you like the game its so much easier to just defend it.

I agree with everything said.

also would like to add the complete lack of meaningful CC, player interdependence , and up until the latest patch there was absolutely no reason for the average player to level up crafting…

Ventrue.5731:

Marnick, common sense in video games is “the set up does not matter, what matters is interaction”. Allow me to just talk about my play style a bit just so you would see how I play. I am a guardian, the first week of release I came up with a build I still use.

I got 30 points in a talent tree that said applying boons heals you. I added 15 in a another that allows my F1 to reset on kills and blind mobs in aoe. 5 in another so that same f1 would apply around 12 boons every time I press it. The outcome is that every time 1 mob dies I heal for around 2k and prevent next attack of mobs. I supplemented it by using weapons that apply boons, the little circles on the grounds guardians place. You can invest remaining 20 points in talents to allow those circles to heal as a their own source. Now I can place a symbol with my mace and it will have 3 healing sources, their own, boons = heals, and the healing boon it gives. Best use is using a hammer who places them on auto attack as well as providing best boon you got, 30% damage reduction 100% of the time.

My post argued the interaction of stats, less power less use from crit, less crit less use from crit damage, less toughness = less use from healing/vit, even condition damage interacts well with precision. Some games have soft caps and that becomes really hard to work around and its no sin to not be aware of it. But in gw2 scenario they made it very simplistic.

So you are attacking people, calling them bad, for taking “tanky” gear, yet almost half your traits (and most of the traits you bothered to mention) are based around “tankyness”…did it ever occur to you that maybe these players might have a more aggressive trait line then you? and make up for it by having more tanky gear?

And your last point is just wrong. Condition damage is not affected by crit at all. Your build might have interactions with crits causing conditions, but Condition damage itself has no (zero/0/nil) interaction with critical chance or critical damage.

Ventrue.5731:

Well, wow leveling part is more about learning you class then enjoying the gameplay, gw2 has made an amazing job being one of few games actually fun to level. WoW gameplay pretty much begins at max lvl, you do a 5 man dungeons to get gear to 10/25 man raids. In raids you do first 3-4 bosses, maybe you will wipe on boss 5 for a few weeks because you ether not use to the fight and people die, or you lack gear and time out (enrage timer). You clear the raid, you progress to next tier raid.
If you play dota or league of legends, think of it as… Laning phase first and then objective based gameplay.

How ever I do not make any valid points there I guess, my complaint is not mostly about no content, but the type of content, In my eyes the game should provide players with both casual story content and improve of how fractal difficulty progresses OR provide with dungeons after fractals.

I am sorry here, I understand that this part is very much elitist wish of what kind of content I want.

You have all the right to wish for difficult and rewarding content. I think fractals and guild missions allow you to have exactly that. If fotm40++ is tweaked to have more meaningful difficulty improvement and increasing chances at unbound fractal weapons, then maybe we’d both benefit from that.

As far as levelling goes … if you need 80 levels to learn a class, you’re a bad gamer, plain and simple. My accumulated gaming knowledge over the years means I can learn any character in a matter of minutes. It’s not like WoW invented anything new.
Levelling in MMORPGs is a time sink, a form of milk before meat. The mere levelling process forces you out of at least 4 monthly fees the fist time you do it. There’s nothing more to it. If you really need that time to learn a class … you’d be so bad that any blue geared ranger would beat your ascended zerk warrior in 1v1 by virtue of pure skill.

Evans.6347:

Bubi.7942:

@Evans:
I feel ashamed for that. May the gods have mercy on my soul.

May Dwayna embrace you with her all transcending compassion.

No seriously, I find the whole berserker of gtfo mentality asinine. I agree that there are extremely poor stat combinations which a player can theoretically pick, but the whole game is built on mechanics which make player choices fool-proof.

I am a guardian and I use knight, power/precision/toughness. Would be too afraid to play berserker with 13k hp. Got a berserker thief and berserker warrior though, warrior does more damage and has more survivability, I could put vitality on thief and do even less damage but have same survivability. I could also go power/toughness/vitality on my warrior but then why not just stay berserk and just never melee, I will do more damage and have even better survivability? But then you could just go all out tank and range, get the best of both survivability worlds, and that is the play style people enjoy.

Those are my arguments. Scenarios arise were I just wanna ask why? If you are a guardian on a single boss fight why would u attack him with your staff? Is it for that 8k heal ability for your self? People are allowed to make mistakes in this game at great disadvantage. Their argument is – I enjoy this play style. That too is some thing I have against the developer, why punish people for going high damage route with your one shot auto attacks.

Guys you are being to harsh on the OP…

I didnt read it either, for all the same reasons… but come on the guy is clurrly passionate in his opinions and that has to count for something!

ANet, Hire This Man!!!!

OP, I read all of your original post along with the other posts on this thread and I have a few thoughts that nutshells what I think I am reading.

1. Vayne had it right in that he said you calling the thread “Horrible game design” immediately destroys credibility to anything you might say. For me in particular, it ruins your credibility because it is simply your opinion about it being that way. Others may agree, but all of us play the game so it is obviously not “horrible” or none of us would bother with the game.

2. You think that your playstyle is the only great way of playing GW2. Or that is the way you are coming across in your post. It is ego and arrogance when anyone believes that their way is the only right way. This game has to appeal to a wide range of people not just gamers like you. It is very short sighted to not be able to acknowledge that.

3. You have some good points in your original post, but most of them are overshadowed by what appears to be an elitist attitude. I tend to be a more hard core gamer like you, but would never subject or expect other players to be like me or play the way I do. If you are playing with PUGs, then you get whatever you deserve. If I play with a PUG, I accept whomever I am playing with. Some may be completely inexperienced or not very skilled but they are playing for fun and I am happy to help them have a good time. They do not in any way deserve derision from other players. You chose to play with a PUG and you get what you get. You have no right to tell them how and what they should play. If you don’t like the random dynamic of a PUG then put together a group that fits your needs. That is what like minded guilds are for.

The OP should make his own game, or find a better one (if at all possible).

Ventrue.5731:

marnick.4305:

Why then don’t you play WoW for the gear progression and GW2 for the real content? Seems like win-win.

The issue with wow is not weather or not the game is bad, its simple the same as it always was. I played wow for my share of years, I enjoyed it, I don’t regret it. But the problem is that I am a pve hero so I can’t play it casually, I had to do hard mode raids and after a while it became rinse and repeat. New raid came out – clear normal/clear hard/repeat for gear grind/get some achievements/wait for new content.

I could say that wow raiding is like gw2 fractals, after lv50 it probably gets too familiar to enjoy. I’ve quit wow back in cataclysm and mostly play dota2. The examples I use with wow is simple because people who play wow would understand them better, its easier for me to know of those examples as a wow player, and no matter how much people might hate wow here, its very hard to argue that wow has very well thought out mechanics. While gw2 is a great game with so many mechanics that need fixing.

I played many games, I can always criticize any game I played, I am sure that goes for every one here, we all know what we would like to see improve in the game, but when we see some one else complain but not have same ideals we think “he is not complaining because of the right reasons”, if you add any of your ideals to that persons complain its like your supporting he’s ideals too, and since you like the game its so much easier to just defend it.

If GW2 was more like WoW then you would end up saying ‘But the problem is that I am a pve hero so I can’t play it casually, I had to do hard mode raids and after a while it became rinse and repeat.’

By having GW2 as it is and being so different than other MMO’s makes it interesting and just like any other MMO this game is growing and the more we give constructive feedback and not just only bash it we can have an improved version of the game we love but it will never fit everyone so I am sorry to say that you may be the one who got the short end of the stick.

Me on the other hand, I love the combat system, I like the stats and I have 8 chars and most of them is using Carrion but also Cleric, HotW stats (Pow, Vit, Tough) and also I am fixing Celestial for my Elementalist (Yes, even now after they discarded MF) and my Ele is rocking there is nothing she can do exellent in PvE.
Everything is about how you build you character, I have found lots of viable builds myself but reading forums where people are saying that there is only one or two per char is just BS.

Skills may always be worked on but some skills are made to be used in the right moment, it is not meant to be stronger than the other it is meant to be used when it is needed for example Warriors Cyclone Axe has a combo finisher than can inflict extra bonns or conditions and more.

Nah I’m gonna play GW2 instead of sitting here falling for a Troll.

marnick.4305:

Ventrue.5731:

Well, wow leveling part is more about learning you class then enjoying the gameplay, gw2 has made an amazing job being one of few games actually fun to level. WoW gameplay pretty much begins at max lvl, you do a 5 man dungeons to get gear to 10/25 man raids. In raids you do first 3-4 bosses, maybe you will wipe on boss 5 for a few weeks because you ether not use to the fight and people die, or you lack gear and time out (enrage timer). You clear the raid, you progress to next tier raid.
If you play dota or league of legends, think of it as… Laning phase first and then objective based gameplay.

How ever I do not make any valid points there I guess, my complaint is not mostly about no content, but the type of content, In my eyes the game should provide players with both casual story content and improve of how fractal difficulty progresses OR provide with dungeons after fractals.

I am sorry here, I understand that this part is very much elitist wish of what kind of content I want.

You have all the right to wish for difficult and rewarding content. I think fractals and guild missions allow you to have exactly that. If fotm40++ is tweaked to have more meaningful difficulty improvement and increasing chances at unbound fractal weapons, then maybe we’d both benefit from that.

As far as levelling goes … if you need 80 levels to learn a class, you’re a bad gamer, plain and simple. My accumulated gaming knowledge over the years means I can learn any character in a matter of minutes. It’s not like WoW invented anything new.
Levelling in MMORPGs is a time sink, a form of milk before meat. The mere levelling process forces you out of at least 4 monthly fees the fist time you do it. There’s nothing more to it. If you really need that time to learn a class … you’d be so bad that any blue geared ranger would beat your ascended zerk warrior in 1v1 by virtue of pure skill.

Sorry, are you that guy who finds it too hard to learn a class so he goes celestial because its easier not too learn a class? Please, tell me more about how it is to be a bad player by learning your class while leveling.
Guild Wars 2 keeps same concept, if you just make a class and go straight for pvp you won’t know how skills/stats interact with the class and will have to ether fail a lot until you understand or do extensive research. I suppose gw1 only gives u 4-7 important skills to learn for your entire game, not around 40 like wow. So you don’t need to worry about how those interact.

There is little difference between wow and gw2 leveling other then visuals. Wow has plenty of fun quests were you control flying units to destroy armies, were you siege cities and fun minigame quests. The only thing gw2 added is no need for npc interaction, kill 20 bandits that are attacking the village? That is so much more fun then kill 20 bandits quest in wow.

You are the type of person I don’t like in gw2, you deem it too elitist to try and learn your class, you hate wow because its not gw2 and you love gw2 because its not wow, and you seem to be a very bad player who has an excuse that he enjoys him self. I don’t need to take time out of my life to clearly see how I can keep same play style while maximizing my characters powers, and I can see how games I dislike have positive mechanics that the game I like can integrate. I love dota2, I don’t like league of legends, I can see so many things league of legends done right and so many things dota done wrong.

Ventrue.5731:

I don’t mind casuals, though I probs have different understand of what casual means then other people, to me its just some one who plays less, not plays worse. In community part of my post I wanna say that people don’t understand faults and don’t point them out. If there were hundred of posts of people complaining about things, those things kitten right would be fixed. But as far a community thing goes though, your a ranger, have you ever got kicked out from a fractal group for being a ranger?

Thanks for reading and giving very constructive comments btw.

Kitten, hit the char limit in my reply post… ah well.

You come off as though you are stating that to be casual is to be bad, which one does not necessarily mean the other to be true. I’ve met some “elitists” that were downright terrible, while I’ve played with many a casual that was flippin awesome. (So jealous)

No, I have never been kicked from a fractals group for being a ranger. Nor from a dungeon, for that matter. However, this is likely due to the types of people I choose to play with, when I opt to do those things.

Edit: I really don’t know why you hate celestial so much. It’s nice on a support ele….

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued, I sort of assume people can’t argue with what is correct so they get bum hurt about it and retort with being upset about their game being bad. Seriously, there were few people who read it, but can any one have an argument that is valid? Mention a single thing I’ve told that is not correct about this game and then insult me.
Well I guess its too much, I would be upset too if people would point out faults of my game and I could not come up with a rational argument.

You are trying to troll us, right? I mean there are a lot of critical posts on this forum, some well argued, some not, but this is really a new low. GW2 is not WoW. In fact it tries to be completely different. The usual critique is that it does not succeed (enough). That may or may not be true but is at least a valid angle.

But to argue that a pear you buy is faulty because it is not an apple but a pear is… pure trolling.

Even though I agree the game design has a lot of room for improvement, I completely disagree on your stat analysis. Talking about warriors, please redo your math on PVT vs Zerk cause you have it all wrong. Besides, not everyone plays the same content every time or want 10 gear sets on their bags.

Claudius.5381:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued, I sort of assume people can’t argue with what is correct so they get bum hurt about it and retort with being upset about their game being bad. Seriously, there were few people who read it, but can any one have an argument that is valid? Mention a single thing I’ve told that is not correct about this game and then insult me.
Well I guess its too much, I would be upset too if people would point out faults of my game and I could not come up with a rational argument.

You are trying to troll us, right? I mean there are a lot of critical posts on this forum, some well argued, some not, but this is really a new low. GW2 is not WoW. In fact it tries to be completely different. The usual critique is that it does not succeed (enough). That may or may not be true but is at least a valid angle.

But to argue that a pear you buy is faulty because it is not an apple but a pear is… pure trolling.

I’ll assume you read the entire thing, were I talked about faulty movement in my paragraph 5. controls. Did I say anything that contradicts your play style and you think I am unhappy with because wow does it better?

Ventrue.5731:

Those are my arguments. Scenarios arise were I just wanna ask why? If you are a guardian on a single boss fight why would u attack him with your staff? Is it for that 8k heal ability for your self? People are allowed to make mistakes in this game at great disadvantage. Their argument is – I enjoy this play style. That too is some thing I have against the developer, why punish people for going high damage route with your one shot auto attacks.

Because, obviously, zerk gear is NOT intended to be the go-to solution for all content.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ventrue.5731:

I don’t mind casuals, though I probs have different understand of what casual means then other people, to me its just some one who plays less, not plays worse. In community part of my post I wanna say that people don’t understand faults and don’t point them out. If there were hundred of posts of people complaining about things, those things kitten right would be fixed. But as far a community thing goes though, your a ranger, have you ever got kicked out from a fractal group for being a ranger?

Thanks for reading and giving very constructive comments btw.

Kitten, hit the char limit in my reply post… ah well.

You come off as though you are stating that to be casual is to be bad, which one does not necessarily mean the other to be true. I’ve met some “elitists” that were downright terrible, while I’ve played with many a casual that was flippin awesome. (So jealous)

No, I have never been kicked from a fractals group for being a ranger. Nor from a dungeon, for that matter. However, this is likely due to the types of people I choose to play with, when I opt to do those things.

Edit: I really don’t know why you hate celestial so much. It’s nice on a support ele….

I am not type of player who will insult some one for playing badly in game, but I will be glad to see them fail and see my self out perform them, in that scenario I suppose I’m a huge kitten. I like to min max, I like to do better then other people, I find it more fun to think of specs then to play games. I’ve leveled bunch of characters with crafting just so I could tests some armors, when I leveled my warrior I actually only wanted to play around with healing set. I record my self hitting mobs and then analyze it frame by frame as a recount. So I could see attack speed of weapon differences, take in account dead time. I love to die, I can start figuring out why I died.

I am absolute elitist kitten hole, still, I made the post not to condemn gw2, I would like this game to change.

Ventrue.5731:

I am not type of player who will insult some one for playing badly in game, but I will be glad to see them fail and see my self out perform them, in that scenario I suppose I’m a huge kitten.

Yeah, that tends to make you a kitten, depending on a few factors.

I don’t like to see other people fail, although sometimes I can be fun to do so. Many fond memories there. Still, considering I’ve been in those shoes, I know how much is sucks (ever seen me do a jumping puzzle, oh yeah I suck). It’s not a good feeling, and having someone else just rub it in your face…yeah, I don’t have any polite words there.

I like to min max, I like to do better then other people, I find it more fun to think of specs then to play games. I’ve leveled bunch of characters with crafting just so I could tests some armors, when I leveled my warrior I actually only wanted to play around with healing set. I record my self hitting mobs and then analyze it frame by frame as a recount. So I could see attack speed of weapon differences, take in account dead time. I love to die, I can start figuring out why I died.

And this is all fine…although people like you tend to suck the life and fun right out of the game for others. I have no issue with how you play, its when you start forcing that play style on others that just don’t want to play that way, that I start to take issue. Religious zealots anyone? Sound familiar? I’m sure you don’t like it when some person shows up on your doorstep and asks you if you’ve been saved today, then again, maybe you do, but most don’t…same concept. Some people don’t want to analyze the game, they just want to play and enjoy it. If you want to do it that way, cool. If you want to offer your insight on a web site, like say wiki, then it leaves it up to the individual if they want to read and utilize it. If they don’t want to, then that’s alright too. It’s all about choice, we all simply need to be more tolerant of other’s freedom to choose

I am absolute elitist kitten hole, still, I made the post not to condemn gw2, I would like this game to change.

Yes, and no. I’m sure you can be, although you don’t seem beyond ‘saving’ chuckle

I think ‘change’ is perhaps the wrong word. Evolve and grow might be better used. I mean, from the sounds of things, you like the general premise, and you enjoy the game, it just needs some love. Some evolution to its combat, some growth in its skills, etc. To change, for most, would imply that you want it to be something that it is not already, at which point, maybe reassessing what you want out of game would be in order because this one potentially might not fulfill those needs.

Ventrue.5731:

Claudius.5381:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued, I sort of assume people can’t argue with what is correct so they get bum hurt about it and retort with being upset about their game being bad. Seriously, there were few people who read it, but can any one have an argument that is valid? Mention a single thing I’ve told that is not correct about this game and then insult me.
Well I guess its too much, I would be upset too if people would point out faults of my game and I could not come up with a rational argument.

You are trying to troll us, right? I mean there are a lot of critical posts on this forum, some well argued, some not, but this is really a new low. GW2 is not WoW. In fact it tries to be completely different. The usual critique is that it does not succeed (enough). That may or may not be true but is at least a valid angle.

But to argue that a pear you buy is faulty because it is not an apple but a pear is… pure trolling.

I’ll assume you read the entire thing, were I talked about faulty movement in my paragraph 5. controls. Did I say anything that contradicts your play style and you think I am unhappy with because wow does it better?

Ok, I see now that you really try to discuss. I retract the trolling part. The thread title was misleading.

But you said in one of your earlier posts that your understanding of casual may be different from others, a casual plays less not worse.

That is my point with the apple pear analogy. You like apples. Everyone who deviates from the appleshape is lacking (playing worse). He may be a small apple (casual as in your definition) but not a pear. GW2 is not a game for apples. It is not, contrary to what I stated above, a game for pears but for a lot of different fruits. So if you measure a pear or a strawberry by apple standards you ignore the basic premise of GW2 which is: Play as Thou wilt.

Ok, that fruity thingy got a bit out of hand, sorry for that.

bites in his carot

Nyx Nyx Nyx…

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued, I sort of assume people can’t argue with what is correct so they get bum hurt about it and retort with being upset about their game being bad. Seriously, there were few people who read it, but can any one have an argument that is valid? Mention a single thing I’ve told that is not correct about this game and then insult me.
Well I guess its too much, I would be upset too if people would point out faults of my game and I could not come up with a rational argument.

You wrote a wall of words then wonder why no one wants to discuss what is nothing more than your own kittenings…. even after you yourself tell us you gave up reading it for proofing cos it made your eyes bleed.

Next topic, move along please!

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued,

Not a single point ya made was new or interesting; ya want good feedback, write something original.

But I’m not angry with ya – though I know you’d love me ta be – that might suggest your post said something I haven’t heard a thousand times – and said better. At this point it’s just annoying.

Gotta give it to ya, though, as a Troll, you’ve got stick-to-it-ive-ness.

Ventrue.5731:

Jack of Tears.9458:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued,

Not a single point ya made was new or interesting; ya want good feedback, write something original.

But I’m not angry with ya – though I know you’d love me ta be – that might suggest your post said something I haven’t heard a thousand times – and said better. At this point it’s just annoying.

Gotta give it to ya, though, as a Troll, you’ve got stick-to-it-ive-ness.

You seem upset son, every thing ok at home? Hows family? Feeling bit sad? Thinking bout cruising dem forums. It won’t solve your problems, but I am glad none the less that you visited.

Hey Jack of Tears. Don’t you love when they prove your point? LOL

I think the most glaring issue with your post is that nothing in GW2 requires specific gear (outside of high level FoTM or speed runs). You can complete every dungeon, every exp path, every fractal, every world boss, literally everything in greens and yellows. I’ve done it successfully on alts. You can complete every bit of content with ease in whatever armor set up you want, Celestial, Berserver, PVT, literally anything and have no problem. If you know your class enough to be able to mitigate/avoid damage then it makes no difference what you wear. The only thing that changes when focusing on gear is completion speed. If you want to do speed runs then gear for it, but that doesn’t mean you can’t complete the same exact dungeon slightly slower with different armor setups.

I’ve completed up to FoTM10 on my alt who is all YELLOW and some GREENS. No wipes at all. Played with guildies who I’ve done countless runs on our mains and so we mess around with alts. Seriously little difference because we know the encounters, know how to evade what needs to be evaded, etc.

If you want to do high level FoTM or specifically do dungeon speed runs then you will want specific gear, but to say that one armor set-up is detrimental to a group compared to another when doing 99% of GW2 content is complete ignorance. Maybe 2% of the GW2 population is doing high level FoTM and regular speed runs that require specific gear set-ups. Everyone else in the game can wear whatever they want and still be able to complete content easily.

It honestly seems like you thought you were the kitten in WoW with a sweet gearscore and are trying to bring that mentality over to GW2 and it just doesn’t fit. It’s waaaay to casual friendly for all that nonsense.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD/S STOP USING THE WORD “TALENTS” WHEN YOU MEAN TRAITS

jheryn.8390:

Ventrue.5731:

Jack of Tears.9458:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued,

Not a single point ya made was new or interesting; ya want good feedback, write something original.

But I’m not angry with ya – though I know you’d love me ta be – that might suggest your post said something I haven’t heard a thousand times – and said better. At this point it’s just annoying.

Gotta give it to ya, though, as a Troll, you’ve got stick-to-it-ive-ness.

You seem upset son, every thing ok at home? Hows family? Feeling bit sad? Thinking bout cruising dem forums. It won’t solve your problems, but I am glad none the less that you visited.

Hey Jack of Tears. Don’t you love when they prove your point? LOL

Since the OP deleted his post, I will take it from where someone else caught it.

This right here just caused anything you say from here on out not matter. You are just a troll.

It is pretty sad too. I was reading all of this and was going to comment on some of the stuff you talked about in your rambling post to start this, since it seems your writing level is that of a 4th grader.

But to each his own. I used to play games like you, min/mix everything I could, find the best way to do each set of content. Now I have never played WoW, but I have done a few other MMO’s. As I have gotten older, gotten married, and had children, I enjoy a more casual style since I don’t know when I will play, or if I will get intrupted. I don’t min/mix any more in the sense that you do. I find the best build for my play style and that is FUN for ME. I still try to be good, but not put as much effort into. I have a warrior, I run Knights with him because I am the type of person that just stands in there way past when they should dodge out. I understand that about my self and changed accordingly.

You talk about rangers in one of your post. My play style on a ranger to you would be considered bad. I enjoy condition build on him. I run Rabid armor. I use a SB and sword/dagger. And I have a lot of fun with it. I do decent crit damage, and my poison stacks duration really well and I survive. I use it in dungeons all the time and never have any problems.

Yes there are areas within the game where it is better to have certain stats to make the fights easier, but it is not required. The game is set up for players like me to just play, whenever I want and not have to worry about gear. But players like you, just need to head back to games that fit your play style, because GW2 will never be it.

Ventrue.5731:

Hjorje.9453:

jheryn.8390:

Ventrue.5731:

Jack of Tears.9458:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued,

Not a single point ya made was new or interesting; ya want good feedback, write something original.

But I’m not angry with ya – though I know you’d love me ta be – that might suggest your post said something I haven’t heard a thousand times – and said better. At this point it’s just annoying.

Gotta give it to ya, though, as a Troll, you’ve got stick-to-it-ive-ness.

You seem upset son, every thing ok at home? Hows family? Feeling bit sad? Thinking bout cruising dem forums. It won’t solve your problems, but I am glad none the less that you visited.

Hey Jack of Tears. Don’t you love when they prove your point? LOL

Since the OP deleted his post, I will take it from where someone else caught it.

This right here just caused anything you say from here on out not matter. You are just a troll.

It is pretty sad too. I was reading all of this and was going to comment on some of the stuff you talked about in your rambling post to start this, since it seems your writing level is that of a 4th grader.

But to each his own. I used to play games like you, min/mix everything I could, find the best way to do each set of content. Now I have never played WoW, but I have done a few other MMO’s. As I have gotten older, gotten married, and had children, I enjoy a more casual style since I don’t know when I will play, or if I will get intrupted. I don’t min/mix any more in the sense that you do. I find the best build for my play style and that is FUN for ME. I still try to be good, but not put as much effort into. I have a warrior, I run Knights with him because I am the type of person that just stands in there way past when they should dodge out. I understand that about my self and changed accordingly.

You talk about rangers in one of your post. My play style on a ranger to you would be considered bad. I enjoy condition build on him. I run Rabid armor. I use a SB and sword/dagger. And I have a lot of fun with it. I do decent crit damage, and my poison stacks duration really well and I survive. I use it in dungeons all the time and never have any problems.

Yes there are areas within the game where it is better to have certain stats to make the fights easier, but it is not required. The game is set up for players like me to just play, whenever I want and not have to worry about gear. But players like you, just need to head back to games that fit your play style, because GW2 will never be it.

I found nothing constructive in your comments at all. You don’t understand a single thing I said and you try to justify every thing with “my play style, go back to wow”. And it sounds like maybe you just read a single sentence before you already created that opinion, you consider my comments about stat interaction/controls/content/skills/movement are wrong yet you don’t prove a single thing, your not debating, and you expect me to say some thing smart to some other guy who can’t say anything constructive? We can only learn from other games, there is no reason for people like you to insult other games.

Ventrue.5731:

Hjorje.9453:

jheryn.8390:

Ventrue.5731:

Jack of Tears.9458:

Ventrue.5731:

Not a single point I made was even argued,

Not a single point ya made was new or interesting; ya want good feedback, write something original.

But I’m not angry with ya – though I know you’d love me ta be – that might suggest your post said something I haven’t heard a thousand times – and said better. At this point it’s just annoying.

Gotta give it to ya, though, as a Troll, you’ve got stick-to-it-ive-ness.

You seem upset son, every thing ok at home? Hows family? Feeling bit sad? Thinking bout cruising dem forums. It won’t solve your problems, but I am glad none the less that you visited.

Hey Jack of Tears. Don’t you love when they prove your point? LOL

Since the OP deleted his post, I will take it from where someone else caught it.

This right here just caused anything you say from here on out not matter. You are just a troll.

It is pretty sad too. I was reading all of this and was going to comment on some of the stuff you talked about in your rambling post to start this, since it seems your writing level is that of a 4th grader.

But to each his own. I used to play games like you, min/mix everything I could, find the best way to do each set of content. Now I have never played WoW, but I have done a few other MMO’s. As I have gotten older, gotten married, and had children, I enjoy a more casual style since I don’t know when I will play, or if I will get intrupted. I don’t min/mix any more in the sense that you do. I find the best build for my play style and that is FUN for ME. I still try to be good, but not put as much effort into. I have a warrior, I run Knights with him because I am the type of person that just stands in there way past when they should dodge out. I understand that about my self and changed accordingly.

You talk about rangers in one of your post. My play style on a ranger to you would be considered bad. I enjoy condition build on him. I run Rabid armor. I use a SB and sword/dagger. And I have a lot of fun with it. I do decent crit damage, and my poison stacks duration really well and I survive. I use it in dungeons all the time and never have any problems.

Yes there are areas within the game where it is better to have certain stats to make the fights easier, but it is not required. The game is set up for players like me to just play, whenever I want and not have to worry about gear. But players like you, just need to head back to games that fit your play style, because GW2 will never be it.

I found nothing constructive in your comments at all. You don’t understand a single thing I said and you try to justify every thing with “my play style, go back to wow”. And it sounds like maybe you just read a single sentence before you already created that opinion, you consider my comments about stat interaction/controls/content/skills/movement are wrong yet you don’t prove a single thing, your not debating, and you expect me to say some thing smart to some other guy who can’t say anything constructive? We can only learn from other games, there is no reason for people like you to insult other games.

Actually I think Hjorje addressed you and your positions very well. You take an elitist stance toward other players. You have no tolerance for differing play styles and abilities. He addressed those very well. I think that he understands you completely. As do we all. We can clearly spot a forum troll when we see one.

Ventrue.5731:

I am not type of player who will insult some one for playing badly in game, but I will be glad to see them fail and see my self out perform them, in that scenario I suppose I’m a huge kitten. I like to min max, I like to do better then other people, I find it more fun to think of specs then to play games. I’ve leveled bunch of characters with crafting just so I could tests some armors, when I leveled my warrior I actually only wanted to play around with healing set. I record my self hitting mobs and then analyze it frame by frame as a recount. So I could see attack speed of weapon differences, take in account dead time. I love to die, I can start figuring out why I died.

It’s pretty funny to claim that if the “competition” isn’t even trying to meet your standards. That’s like sprinting during a walking event and claiming first place. Other people simply don’t care about your “achievement”.

The things you do, I tend to do during holidays. I actually have more holidays than my wife, which means I have the luxury of 2 weeks of pure gaming adultery a year. That’s when I start min-maxing and building a single perfect character. After the holiday, the toon gets shelved again because such characters are not fun to play outside of holidays.

So again, do not place your “ideals” on every group. Only place them on people who share them. I do, two weeks a year. Outside of that, I just want to have fun. The one who has most fun, is the one who is best at the game imho.

Ventrue.5731:

Sorry, are you that guy who finds it too hard to learn a class so he goes celestial because its easier not too learn a class? Please, tell me more about how it is to be a bad player by learning your class while leveling.

I use celestial because I don’t care, not because it’s too hard. Big difference.

Guild Wars 2 keeps same concept, if you just make a class and go straight for pvp you won’t know how skills/stats interact with the class and will have to ether fail a lot until you understand or do extensive research. I suppose gw1 only gives u 4-7 important skills to learn for your entire game, not around 40 like wow. So you don’t need to worry about how those interact.

You can stop posting now. GW1 skills were extremely complex, every skill mattered and they interacted on very deep and interesting ways. Furthermore, every character in GW1 had over 1000 skills to choose from, and it was that exact choice that mattered.

To claim that GW1 skills didn’t interact, and you only had 4-7 important skills is pure ignorance.

Seriously … if you don’t know a game, please don’t talk about it. I’d like to continue WoW and GW2 discussion with you though.

If you go full berserker, you are far more likely to get one-shotted.

marnick.4305:

Ventrue.5731:

Sorry, are you that guy who finds it too hard to learn a class so he goes celestial because its easier not too learn a class? Please, tell me more about how it is to be a bad player by learning your class while leveling.

I use celestial because I don’t care, not because it’s too hard. Big difference.

Guild Wars 2 keeps same concept, if you just make a class and go straight for pvp you won’t know how skills/stats interact with the class and will have to ether fail a lot until you understand or do extensive research. I suppose gw1 only gives u 4-7 important skills to learn for your entire game, not around 40 like wow. So you don’t need to worry about how those interact.

You can stop posting now. GW1 skills were extremely complex, every skill mattered and they interacted on very deep and interesting ways. Furthermore, every character in GW1 had over 1000 skills to choose from, and it was that exact choice that mattered.

To claim that GW1 skills didn’t interact, and you only had 4-7 important skills is pure ignorance.

Seriously … if you don’t know a game, please don’t talk about it. I’d like to continue WoW and GW2 discussion with you though.

That was only a typo, meant gw2 not gw1, sorry, I am aware of gw1 complexity, I put my share of hours in to that game and even have some posters on my wall.

Ventrue.5731:

Ventrue.5731:

I found nothing constructive in your comments at all. You don’t understand a single thing I said and you try to justify every thing with “my play style, go back to wow”. And it sounds like maybe you just read a single sentence before you already created that opinion, you consider my comments about stat interaction/controls/content/skills/movement are wrong yet you don’t prove a single thing, your not debating, and you expect me to say some thing smart to some other guy who can’t say anything constructive? We can only learn from other games, there is no reason for people like you to insult other games.

For one, I never said go to WoW, I said go to a game that fits your playstyle. That could be any game. Like I said above, I have never played WoW, I only know about it from people posting on here and what some of my friends have told me. I also address your original post with mine. But the problem with what I said had nothing to do with what I said, it had to do with IT DIDN"T AGREE WITH YOUR STANCE. I also never said you was wrong or right, I put my OPINION on some of the stuff you said in your original OPINION about the game. I also never insulted another game. Like I said, I used to play just like you, min/mix, find the best combo of skills, best rotations, figure out why died at a certain point so I can make a change. What you just did with my post, is the same thing you accuse me of during, forming an opinion about the post and not reading it. So since you think I didn’t read your OP, I will outline it here in an easy to read format following your number structure.

1. The game is built around the dodge mechanic, not the one shot mechanic. Learning the tells of the mobs is one of the things people should do. But I am guessing your talking about dungeon or fractals, since in open world PvE, it doesn’t matter as much. Once you know how to read a boss and can dodge it doesn’t matter your armor. But as stated above, that is not everyones playstyle, or there are some that may be able to read the movements but physical can’t react to them. That is why stat combo’s don’t matter, they allow all players the ability to do any content in the game. Plus the ALL STAT combination is actually a very good combo to use with Engi and Ele because of there skills.

2. I don’t agree with your opinion on this. I play an axe/mace warrior and a shortbow ranger. Axe 2 is a great skill if you have mobs all piled up on you and the mace 4 skill puts vulnerbilty on the mob which causes you to do more damage. Mace 5 is also good situationly for giving you a moment to heal or to be able to put some distance between you and the mob for a moment. I play a condition/crit build on my ranger with focus on poison and I think the shortbow does great for my build and rotating through the skills accomplishes stuff really well for this.

3. This point all you did is complain and didn’t offer any suggestions on how to fix it.

4. Again your just complaining. Also, if you had been following the devs, most of the content patch up to this point was getting all the mini games, and recurring content added and the bugs worked out. Now we should start seeing more meaningful content coming the months ahead.

5. Again you complain about the controls, but don’t really offer any type of suggestion.

6. Again you complain about the community, but don’t offer anything of a suggestion. But from the get go, this game was designed for everyone. It doesn’t matter if they are a bad player, a good player, or someone that likes to min/max. Everyone can play. The reason you get told to go to other games is you don’t accept this fact, you want the game to change everything to fit your play style and that is not the idea behind the game.

Also, another thing that takes your credibility away from your post, every time you talk about TRAITS, you call the TALENTS and if I am not mistaken, talents are from WoW.

If you want people to take your post seriously and not call you a troll, offer some suggestions with your “problems” you see in game. Don’t just go on here and complain like you did without offering something of a suggestion to go with it.