What happen to Fractals Leaderboard?

What happen to Fractals Leaderboard?

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

We’re holding the leaderboard for now to see if we can’t decide on a better way to help differentiate people on it who are all at the same tier, other than just the first who got there specifically. Once we have decided that, we’ll need to code, test, and vet it and then update the leaderboards to reflect the new tracking.

Colin, You have to realize by now that Fractured put a quite bad image on you guys over the past few weeks. Many hardcore fractal players practically quit doing them completely. I, myself have been going in there maybe once every week or so, when previously you could see me in fractals every day and sometimes (especially on weekends) multiple times a day. You guys single handily destroyed a whole community of very dedicated players that were focus on that one particular content. And in that manner you haven’t given us any kind of compensation for the time we’ve put into it at all.

At this point people that had multiple toons at level 49-50 have as much to show for as a person with one toon that was at level 32. How is that fair in any way? And to see all these PvP players having a reset that practically didn’t actually happen since you guys “communicated” it beforehand with the community. As the matter of fact, quite a few of them got rich because of adding the Wintersday merchant that takes glory as a currency. We never had that leverage, nor we had any valuable response in “Fractured” forum about any of our concerns and suggestions. We were practically forgotten and left in dust. The only reason that was given to us was the Leaderboards that (from what it looks like) weren’t even coded in the first place. And that’s not something I was looking forward to in the first place anyways, because the whole feeling of accomplishment and leveling up my personal reward level is now basically lost.
So what was the real reason behind it all? I know you won’t respond to this just like nobody responded to any of our topics when details about Fractured were first unveiled. The best thing we’ve gotten so far is Chris telling us he’ll think about the issue. But I don’t even know what to think of that anymore since the Topic was now closed without any actual statement.

It is not the fact that we hate fractals, it’s the fact that compared to everyone else (PvP, WvW, PvE) we were not treated equal. We were stripped of our “achievements” (in actual meaning of the word rather than point system) and tossed in the basket with everyone else. You have to at least see why we feel the way we feel? Or is that a lost cause?

(edited by Romo.3709)

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Posted by: Estriella Faerie.4029

Estriella Faerie.4029

We’re holding the leaderboard for now to see if we can’t decide on a better way to help differentiate people on it who are all at the same tier, other than just the first who got there specifically. Once we have decided that, we’ll need to code, test, and vet it and then update the leaderboards to reflect the new tracking.

That’s just a joke… We told you many times in the Fractured forum, before the patch went live, that the leaderboard idea was a bad one, that you’d only have a ton of people all at first place. But no one listened, no one answered us. And now you say that you can’t differentiate people on leaderboard… If you had listened to us in the first place, perhaps we could have avoided such a thing… If a leaderboard was active at the moment, it would only tell us who the richest fractal player were, those who spent hundreds of gold on infusions.

Leaderboard for fractal is a bad idea. There’s almost no way you could get it to display the best players. After the long talk on the fractured subforum, I’m convinced the only way to get a functionning leaderboard is to track the max level reached, but only if there is no cap on the level you can open. All other possibilities are wrong. Best time to complete, for example, would be dependant on which map you get. You get dredge = you lose. It would also force some team composition, don’t expect necro, engi, ranger to ever see a spot for the top groups.

(edited by Estriella Faerie.4029)

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Posted by: Bright.9160

Bright.9160

I thought of an analogy today for all the people that keep defending Anet (although this thread is rather void of them) over all of this. The people who say things like “Well, they said they were adding Fractal weapon boxes in higher levels, but they didn’t say which levels, so they didn’t deceive you at all.”

Image a political party promises to do X, Y and Z when they get elected. Once elected, they don’t even give the impression that they’re working on any of their promises. Then when the people confront them they say “well, we didn’t say we’d do all those things this time we got elected, maybe we’ll do it on our next term”. Guess how well that would fly.

Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

I thought of an analogy today for all the people that keep defending Anet (although this thread is rather void of them) over all of this. The people who say things like “Well, they said they were adding Fractal weapon boxes in higher levels, but they didn’t say which levels, so they didn’t deceive you at all.”

Image a political party promises to do X, Y and Z when they get elected. Once elected, they don’t even give the impression that they’re working on any of their promises. Then when the people confront them they say “well, we didn’t say we’d do all those things this time we got elected, maybe we’ll do it on our next term”. Guess how well that would fly.

It’s a waste of time to try to generalize the thought. We tried over and over to explain to people why we feel the way we do. What I learned is that quite big amount of players on this forum uses “If it doesn’t benefit me, why would it benefit you” quote as base of their arguments, along with “If you get something that I won’t get then I’d rather have us both get nothing”.

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

I thought of an analogy today for all the people that keep defending Anet (although this thread is rather void of them) over all of this. The people who say things like “Well, they said they were adding Fractal weapon boxes in higher levels, but they didn’t say which levels, so they didn’t deceive you at all.”

Image a political party promises to do X, Y and Z when they get elected. Once elected, they don’t even give the impression that they’re working on any of their promises. Then when the people confront them they say “well, we didn’t say we’d do all those things this time we got elected, maybe we’ll do it on our next term”. Guess how well that would fly.

It’s a waste of time to try to generalize the thought. We tried over and over to explain to people why we feel the way we do. What I learned is that quite big amount of players on this forum uses “If it doesn’t benefit me, why would it benefit you” quote as base of their arguments, along with “If you get something that I won’t get then I’d rather have us both get nothing”.

I see a lot of “don’t complain about what you didnt get, be happy about what you got.” Unfortunately for those white knights, this update was 100% lose/lose. There was literally no upside, which is impressive in and of itself if you think about it.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

Actually, people did get all they were supposed to get for getting high levels in fractals.

That is, absolutely nothing. Because there was no reward and it was never supposed that there would be a reward for fractal level (be it achievement, titles, items or even just a recognization – fractal level isn’t even displayable ingame outside of being in a party with another player and going to the entrance).

Asking to introduce retroactive rewards for content that was going to be removed was simply absurd. There weren’t even achievement related to high fractal level – the whole fractal of the mist subsection could be completed at personal fractal level 3.

It would have made as much sense as putting retroactively a reward for doing the mad king’s clock tower 400 times during the last halloween or completing tribulation mode without using dodges, on the assumption that it was difficult for everyone who did it, even if there was nothing that pointed the players toward doing it apart from the intrinsic rewards of those activities.

And while i agree that the leaderboard they were planning to introduce are terrible, complaining about the release won’t help. Constructive ideas (like, how to make a good leaderboard), instead, would be useful.
And i’ve already given some ideas about that in my other post in the thread.

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Posted by: Estriella Faerie.4029

Estriella Faerie.4029

Constructive ideas (like, how to make a good leaderboard), instead, would be useful.

I did that in my post. There’s only one way to make a good leaderboard, all the others that were discussed in the fractured subforum were no good. If this way isn’t used, it’s better to not have leaderboard, than to have a leaderboard recording wrong things (like who paid the most to get AR the fastest).

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

Constructive ideas (like, how to make a good leaderboard), instead, would be useful.

I did that in my post. There’s only one way to make a good leaderboard, all the others that were discussed in the fractured subforum were no good. If this way isn’t used, it’s better to not have leaderboard, than to have a leaderboard recording wrong things (like who paid the most to get AR the fastest).

Indeed, the one that was supposed to be implemented would have been terrible. Regarding your suggestion, i think that even putting infinite levels and tracking the max level would present a problem you later mention in your post: that is, some professions would be excluded from the higher levels. Albeit, imho, there isn’t a real solution about that unless all the classes are properly balanced pve wise.
And tracking about time, as you said, would present the problem given by the different lengths of the fractals.
But what about the solution i proposed? By having a leaderboard per every level – as they present different challenges due to the various instabilities – and using a point system that properly differentiates between the fractals, but by still giving the same amount of points per fractal?
Doing so, even if used the time spent to complete fractals as a factor, it would account for the different lengths. And other factors could be taken in account as well – be it deaths, being downed or other things.

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Posted by: clint.5681

clint.5681

If i was you guys i would send this thread to massively with some details explaining the problems and see if you could get a write up and some exposure to the problem.

Rangir Dangir – Ranger | Mr. Ragr- Guardian| Sneak Stab – Thief | Mr. Ragir- Warrior
[url=https://] [/url]

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Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548

Patrikan Habaton.2548

Constructive ideas (like, how to make a good leaderboard), instead, would be useful.

I did that in my post. There’s only one way to make a good leaderboard, all the others that were discussed in the fractured subforum were no good. If this way isn’t used, it’s better to not have leaderboard, than to have a leaderboard recording wrong things (like who paid the most to get AR the fastest).

Indeed, the one that was supposed to be implemented would have been terrible. Regarding your suggestion, i think that even putting infinite levels and tracking the max level would present a problem you later mention in your post: that is, some professions would be excluded from the higher levels. Albeit, imho, there isn’t a real solution about that unless all the classes are properly balanced pve wise.
And tracking about time, as you said, would present the problem given by the different lengths of the fractals.
But what about the solution i proposed? By having a leaderboard per every level – as they present different challenges due to the various instabilities – and using a point system that properly differentiates between the fractals, but by still giving the same amount of points per fractal?
Doing so, even if used the time spent to complete fractals as a factor, it would account for the different lengths. And other factors could be taken in account as well – be it deaths, being downed or other things.

This would cause a Leaderboard were nobody knows what the real factors are that they are at the place they’re at. They don’t know if it is smart do do isntability 122 and advance or spend the time to do instability 42 and 43 in a faster way. The only Leaderboard in my opginon that is fair is highest Level completed and the Level Need to get soo hard that not everybody will be able to complete em.. And I don’t think classes are excluded .. I played with my ele I think ele is pretty strong. I played with the Group I played first in following Setup: 2 guards 1 engi 1 thief 1 ele, second Group I helped out to get to 80 was 4 ele’s and 1 guard. I know that 1 of the first Groups that I know that reached 80 also pretty fast. There was a necro and a ranger.. so I’m not sure about mesmer and wars tbh ( I know some wars and mes on 80). So I really think all hard Content can be done with every class. I know of no class that coulnd’t beat the hardest things pve wise in GW2 liadri with light up the dark was beaten on all classes same for fractals scale 80.

Short Version: I really think the System should be with highest Level achieved and there should be no AR prohibiting you from advancing.

first scale 81 fractals

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

Actually, people did get all they were supposed to get for getting high levels in fractals.

That is, absolutely nothing. Because there was no reward and it was never supposed that there would be a reward for fractal level (be it achievement, titles, items or even just a recognization – fractal level isn’t even displayable ingame outside of being in a party with another player and going to the entrance).

Asking to introduce retroactive rewards for content that was going to be removed was simply absurd. There weren’t even achievement related to high fractal level – the whole fractal of the mist subsection could be completed at personal fractal level 3.

It would have made as much sense as putting retroactively a reward for doing the mad king’s clock tower 400 times during the last halloween or completing tribulation mode without using dodges, on the assumption that it was difficult for everyone who did it, even if there was nothing that pointed the players toward doing it apart from the intrinsic rewards of those activities.

And while i agree that the leaderboard they were planning to introduce are terrible, complaining about the release won’t help. Constructive ideas (like, how to make a good leaderboard), instead, would be useful.
And i’ve already given some ideas about that in my other post in the thread.

And this is a perfect example for what I was referring to.

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

And this is a perfect example for what I was referring to.

Example of what? I’m not the one feeling entitled for a reward that doesn’t exist, and neither was ever supposed to exist.
This isn’t a matter of “If you get something that I won’t get then I’d rather have us both get nothing”. Because you weren’t supposed to get anything to begin with. Rather, you’re feeling entitled to get something that any others can’t get anymore, where no one should have ever got nothing.
Also, we’re OT, so i’ll just stop the conversation here. It isn’t like there is much to say, anyway.

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Posted by: Bright.9160

Bright.9160

And this is a perfect example for what I was referring to.

Example of what? I’m not the one feeling entitled for a reward that doesn’t exist, and neither was ever supposed to exist.
This isn’t a matter of “If you get something that I won’t get then I’d rather have us both get nothing”. Because you weren’t supposed to get anything to begin with. Rather, you’re feeling entitled to get something that any others can’t get anymore, where no one should have ever got nothing.
Also, we’re OT, so i’ll just stop the conversation here. It isn’t like there is much to say, anyway.

So, are you saying that we also shouldn’t feel bitter about the fact that Anet erased our progress without compensation, but promised a bunch of stuff to make up for it (leaderboards and Fractal Weapon boxes mainly), and then didn’t deliver those things? Or are we just supposed to accept that too?

Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

And this is a perfect example for what I was referring to.

Example of what? I’m not the one feeling entitled for a reward that doesn’t exist, and neither was ever supposed to exist.
This isn’t a matter of “If you get something that I won’t get then I’d rather have us both get nothing”. Because you weren’t supposed to get anything to begin with. Rather, you’re feeling entitled to get something that any others can’t get anymore, where no one should have ever got nothing.
Also, we’re OT, so i’ll just stop the conversation here. It isn’t like there is much to say, anyway.

I love how you make my point stronger with each thing u post.
:D

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

ArenaNet announced leaderboards for Fractals
Players: “Buhuh, we don’t want any stupid leaderboards!”
ArenaNet puts leaderboards on hold in order to figure out a better way for them to work
Players: “Buhuh, where are our leaderboard!?”

Interestingly enough there seem to be much of the same people in this thread complaining about the lack of leaderboard that were complaining about them adding a leaderboard in the first place..

I didn’t and still don’t want the leaderboards, but since they’re going to be there, I’ve become curious about it, indeed. I didn’t change my mind, I adapted to the current situation.

The example of leaderboards and fractal skin box are two examples of things that were highly advertised on which ArenaNet did not deliver. That’s nearly all that has to be said about it.

Regarding the comment of Colin, I don’t see the leaderboards coming before the patch of January 21st. So let’s not hope too much!

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

So, are you saying that we also shouldn’t feel bitter about the fact that Anet erased our progress without compensation, but promised a bunch of stuff to make up for it (leaderboards and Fractal Weapon boxes mainly), and then didn’t deliver those things? Or are we just supposed to accept that too?

Not specifying that fractal weapon boxes weren’t available yet was quite bad on their part, that i agree. But regarding the leaderboard? Oh, better delaying them and having some ones that make sense than having a flawed one based on how much time you stayed awake after the implementation of the patch.
Albeit, they should have thought about it earlier – after all, everyone in the forums was able to point out how they would have worked bad, so it is quite strange that no one pointed out those issues when those were being designed.

I love how you make my point stronger with each thing u post.
:D

I could say the same, regarding the entitlement part.
Something that any objective reader (and anyone who played the game, since anything giving rewards is clearly pointed out ingame) could tell from the posts.

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Posted by: Rama.6439

Rama.6439

I do about 0 PvP, but I frequent their forums to get an idea of where the balance is headed. There are a lot of threads about compensation for rank lost (or something of the sort, with this new addition of gold – like I said I’m not too keen on what’s going on over there) and it sounds a lot like what happened to us that were over 30.

Only thing is, I would bet that they are going to receive the compensation they are asking for, because you know, PvP and all. Can’t wait for the kittenstorm.

With the placement of wintersday merchant with gift boxes in PvP, many hardcore PvPers got practically rich overnight. And I’m talking hundreds to thousands of golds from all that glory they had.
I wonder what can we use our relics for… Yeah… I’ve got nothing in mind that I can possibly still need…

In spvp, Glory is being gotten rid of as a form of currency, spvp will give gold in a future patch from what I have heard and the fractured patch has allowed players to cash in Glory for items, I was hearing stories about players making hundreds of gold off of it, and even thousands.

My question is, why? In spvp they don’t use gold at all, they dont have travel costs, repair costs or any of that stuff and Anet just turns and makes them all rich and a day. Great job Bnet. >.>

Arcubus Balefire – 80 Guardian
Välkyri – 80 Warrior
JQ[Lulz] – Kill fur Thrillz…

(edited by Rama.6439)

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

I love how you make my point stronger with each thing u post.
:D

I could say the same, regarding the entitlement part.
Something that any objective reader (and anyone who played the game, since anything giving rewards is clearly pointed out ingame) could tell from the posts.

Do I feel entitled to having level 80 charcter? Yes I do. Do I feel entitled to having the gear I have on? Yes I do. Do I feel entitled to my WvW and PvP rank? You betcha. You know what all these have in common with fractal level? All of the above took time and hard work to acquire. If you can’t understand that simple concept, than I’m sorry.
I said that you fit the reference, because you clearly don’t want us to be rewarded for the time that we put into getting to where we were before the patch. And that makes you perfect example. “Rather, you’re feeling entitled to get something that any others can’t get anymore…” How can others (I’m assuming you’re one of them) be rewarded for something they didn’t work for?
But rather than giving accurate explanation, you’re going to turn into “entitlement” arguments and how we don’t deserve anything because of X and Y. Where X being instabilities and Y being “old fractal system vs new fractal system”.
So get typing, because I’m actually curious as to what you have to say about something that doesn’t a) affect you at all b) exist.

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Posted by: Bright.9160

Bright.9160

ArenaNet announced leaderboards for Fractals
Players: “Buhuh, we don’t want any stupid leaderboards!”
ArenaNet puts leaderboards on hold in order to figure out a better way for them to work
Players: “Buhuh, where are our leaderboard!?”

Interestingly enough there seem to be much of the same people in this thread complaining about the lack of leaderboard that were complaining about them adding a leaderboard in the first place..

I still don’t want leaderboards. But since they were the sole justification Anet put forth to erase our progress, it is quite logical that we are asking them wtf is up with the leaderboards. If they don’t implement them (something Colin indirectly implied they haven’t even started doing yet) any time soon, they’re just going to make more and more people bitter about this catastrophe they called an ‘overhaul’.

They have a lot of stuff to answer to. And every day that they refuse to answer the issues we put forth, the harder it’s going to be for them to save face. The longer they wait, the more disgruntled we will get and the harder the backlash will be.

All they had to do was answer us right after the patch hit. Stuff like “we’re still looking into how to implement the leaderboards, constructive feedback is welcome”. is a lot better than saying “they’re coming, we’re collecting data”, waiting a month and then saying “yeah, we barely even started to implement them yet”.

About the weapon boxes, all they should have said was “weapon boxes will be in higher levels that aren’t available yet, but we’re looking into releasing as soon as we can.". We’re not mad that the boxes aren’t available yet. We’re mad they never told us.

We’re not getting upset over the fact that so many things went wrong specifically. We’re upset that so many things went wrong and Anet hasn’t even had the common courtesy to answer to our concerns, which gives us the impression that they don’t even care about the dungeon/fractals community.

And some people on these forums wonder why we are so bitter. Well, try getting update after update that disfavors you, then have an update that destroys a part of the game you liked, and when you’re complaining about it, people call you entitled and Anet doesn’t even respond to you.

Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

What annoys me the most about the fractured patch is that we were promised better rewards and a better system. The rewards are without a doubt worse. The rate at which fractals skins drops is incredibly low now. We get non infused rings or nothing at 49. The relics were reduced, the karma was reduced. The only thing which was improved was gold. But thats still so small that its pointless. We never did fractals for gold due to the time to complete them, we did them for relics and fractal skins or challenging content. And those have all been nerfed.

Leaderboards were never going to work and changing your plan now and admitting this is just stupid. Im also still awaiting acknowledgement on all the major bugs and issues introduced in fractals. The boss cameras not working being the most irritating.

The one thing i am happy about is the new boss fractals and thaumanova. They are pretty fun. However the rest of the bugs and issues completely ruined the patch and the lack of dev response is truly disheartening to see especially when this was supposed to be the one patch we were looking forward to.

(edited by spoj.9672)

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

I love how you make my point stronger with each thing u post.
:D

I could say the same, regarding the entitlement part.
Something that any objective reader (and anyone who played the game, since anything giving rewards is clearly pointed out ingame) could tell from the posts.

Do I feel entitled to having level 80 charcter? Yes I do. Do I feel entitled to having the gear I have on? Yes I do. Do I feel entitled to my WvW and PvP rank? You betcha. You know what all these have in common with fractal level? All of the above took time and hard work to acquire. If you can’t understand that simple concept, than I’m sorry.
I said that you fit the reference, because you clearly don’t want us to be rewarded for the time that we put into getting to where we were before the patch. And that makes you perfect example. “Rather, you’re feeling entitled to get something that any others can’t get anymore…” How can others (I’m assuming you’re one of them) be rewarded for something they didn’t work for?
But rather than giving accurate explanation, you’re going to turn into “entitlement” arguments and how we don’t deserve anything because of X and Y. Where X being instabilities and Y being “old fractal system vs new fractal system”.
So get typing, because I’m actually curious as to what you have to say about something that doesn’t a) affect you at all b) exist.

Even doing tribulation mode multiple times required time and hard work. Does that means i’m entitled for additional rewards – apart from the ones i already got for doing said content (tribulation weapons, as opposed to higher chances of fractal weapons by doing higher fractal levels)?
After all, i could say the same – i am entitled because i’ve done it, the others don’t deserve anything because they haven’t done it.
Does it makes sense? No.
And it was something that will still be available at some time and that at least gave an achievement for the first time you did it.

I could make the same example with multiple completitions of the mad king’s clock tower. Still the same, apart from the achievement.

You, on the other side, are asking for a reward for something that wasn’t even related to achievements, didn’t give a reward per se and that won’t even be available anymore (as they have changed all the levels above 30).

You have got to those high levels of your own initiative, well knowing that there was no reward involved or ever implied for the future. Good work, indeed, but don’t expect a reward, especially after that they’ve removed said content.

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

I love when simpler people use the term “entitlement” as a pejorative. When they say it, the implication is that you aren’t actually entitled to something that you think you are. Here is the truth about so-called “entitlements” in this game (and real life too): there are times when you’ve earned something, or been promised something, and you are in fact entitled to it legitimately.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

Even doing tribulation mode multiple times required time and hard work. Does that means i’m entitled for additional rewards – apart from the ones i already got for doing said content (tribulation weapons, as opposed to higher chances of fractal weapons by doing higher fractal levels)?
After all, i could say the same – i am entitled because i’ve done it, the others don’t deserve anything because they haven’t done it.
Does it makes sense? No.
And it was something that will still be available at some time and that at least gave an achievement for the first time you did it.

I could make the same example with multiple completitions of the mad king’s clock tower. Still the same, apart from the achievement.

You, on the other side, are asking for a reward for something that wasn’t even related to achievements, didn’t give a reward per se and that won’t even be available anymore (as they have changed all the levels above 30).

You have got to those high levels of your own initiative, well knowing that there was no reward involved or ever implied for the future. Good work, indeed, but don’t expect a reward, especially after that they’ve removed said content.

Wow. Congrats! You surprised me with even less sense than I thought you would provide. Comparing a “permanent” content to the living story content makes absolutely no sense at all. If Fractals were temporary than I would agree with you, but that’s obviously not the case here. Fractals been around for a year. We leveled high because we wanted to raise our level not rewards. Fractals was never rewarding to begin with. All we had is our level. It’s like telling a PvP player that he was pvping for rewards. Good luck with that.
Just wow… Astonishing…

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

The rewards you are asking for are for something that isn’t available anymore.
Exactly like the living story.
And you are asking for a retroactive reward for said unavailable content just because you will be able to get it.
Again, exactly like the examples i did above. Your request makes as much sense – that is, none.

When those levels were there, you got more karma when doing lower ones and had an higher chance of getting skins.
That was all you were warranted to get. If you aren’t satisfied with that, you shouldn’t have done it to begin with.

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

We’re holding the leaderboard for now to see if we can’t decide on a better way to help differentiate people on it who are all at the same tier, other than just the first who got there specifically. Once we have decided that, we’ll need to code, test, and vet it and then update the leaderboards to reflect the new tracking.

I wonder if you could do a board that shows clusters of five player names for ‘fastest clear time’ for each type of fractal and at each level of difficulty.

Then we could go in and look up what teams are just shamelessly stomping these things into the ground, and make comparisons like a graph of ‘fastest Drege clears’ levels 31-50. Dips and spikes on a graph like that could be very informative.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: Romo.3709

Romo.3709

The rewards you are asking for are for something that isn’t available anymore.
Exactly like the living story.
And you are asking for a retroactive reward for said unavailable content just because you will be able to get it.
Again, exactly like the examples i did above. Your request makes as much sense – that is, none.

When those levels were there, you got more karma when doing lower ones and had an higher chance of getting skins.
That was all you were warranted to get. If you aren’t satisfied with that, you shouldn’t have done it to begin with.

You are not understanding the whole concept of what we’re referring to. You’re seeing it as if we were crying about a LS story achievement that we didn’t get because the time ran out. I guess I’m gonna have to put it in known facts that you obviously are not aware of:

Living Story – Temporary content that will go away. That is well known throughout the entire game that the content provided is only temporary and will vanish soon with possibility of coming back at later date for once again temporary amount of time.

Fractals – Said to be a permanent content that will not go away. Hence the urge to get your personal level up. It was never once said that it will be reset nor was it ever implied. Nobody would even bother going past level 30 if it was a known thing that you’ll eventually be reverted back to level 30. Nobody would even bothered getting more than one character into fractals if it was known in advance that the level will be account bound.

So yeah… Your argument is flawed. I don’t even understand why you’re even wasting time writing in here since it completely does not affects you in any way. Is that just a thing you do?

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

DESSA’S CHAMPIONS: FOR SERVICES RENDERED!
I posted this in the CDI, but I hope people with extraordinary Fractal Rewards Levels pre-Fractured will look at it and give feedback on if or how well it meets their needs .

This is a proposal for recognition of the creativity and skill displayed in assisting Dessa’ investigations into the Fractals of the Mist above and beyond what had at first appeared possible.

Three important considerations: First while I realize that there must be players out there with multiple characters at extraordinary Fractal Rewards levels, this proposal is based on a single reward set by your highest level. I realize this cheapens some of your effort, but I feel it is necessary to put this sort of cap on the levels being considered in light of what you would be receiving. Second, many of these rewards represent a ‘head start’ more than an eternal divide between those who entered the deepest fractals early and those who pit themselves against them now. Some of these rewards involve considerable expenditure of Development time and that time cannot be justified as a one-time expense. It must promote gameplay both past and future. Finally, the rewards are presented in three parts. If one section looks meaninglessly small or overwhelmingly good, try to appreciate the combined effect.

Level by Level
The first reward is that for each and every level you achieved from 31 on, you will be mailed a + 2 agony resistance infusion (maximum of 50 infusions for reaching level 80). It is important that these rewards differentiate between even so small a difference as players who reached level 43 vs. those who reached level 44. Also, please recognize that while you could sell these infusions, they are given in the spirit of invitation: you triumphed over the Fractals of the Mist in the past, please come back and show your power in the face of the new challenges.
The second half of the level-by-level reward is a progressive gift of karma. You will be mailed liquid karma equivalent to your highest pre-Fractured fractal rewards level squared x 100. This would amount to 96,100 karma for level 31 all the way up to 640,000 for those who reached level 80.

Shinies!
If your former Fractal Rewards Level reached the threshold’s of 35|45|55|65|75 you will be mailed a special chest for each of those thresholds (maximum of 5 chests at level 75). Each of those chests when opened will allow you to chose a single account bound “Advanced Fractal Weapon” skin of the weapon type of your choice. These skins are based on the existing Fractal Weapons but feature additional FX. While these skins will become available through playing Fractals level 51 and up in the future, for the moment you will be the only players in the game who have access to them and you WILL receive the specific weapons you crave most. Others will one day match your glory, but for now it’s all you.

Do you know who I am?
If your former Fractal Rewards Level reached the threshold’s of 40|50|60|70|80, you will gain account-wide access to new titles. These titles will also be available to those who reach levels 40 and 50 in the new fractals, but the 60th, 70th, and 80th level titles will be unique to you until such time as higher level fractals are re-introduced.

Level 40: “Knight of Broken Mirrors” title
Level 50: “Dessa’s Champion” title
Level 60: “Lord of Broken Mirrors” title
Level 70: “Stabilize this!” title
Level 80: “The Jadebreaker” title

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: Estriella Faerie.4029

Estriella Faerie.4029

DESSA’S CHAMPIONS: FOR SERVICES RENDERED!
I posted this in the CDI, but I hope people with extraordinary Fractal Rewards Levels pre-Fractured will look at it and give feedback on if or how well it meets their needs .

Posting back my answer to it here too, then:

That would be a nice way to resolve the issues many fractal players have with the reset. Talking about your three parts now:

“Do you know who I am” is I think the easiest of all to implement, and would be really nice.

“Shinies” would need more time for the developers. It would be pretty good, and would let high level players get something to show their dedication to this area of the game. Fractal weapons were a bit doing that before, but given how RNG based they were, and the fact they can now drop at level 10, the “prestige” of fractal weapons is mostly gone, so a higher grade of the weapon could be nice.

“Level by level”: I’m pretty much against that. We don’t need more AR, we need AR to be given less of an impact in the game than what Fractured made, to get back to a system where the skill of the player is what matters, and not only his stuff.

Since Fractured, Agony on the new maps can’t always be dodged, and some instabilities, like the one every 10 levels, gives you unavoidable agony every 10s. Therefore, player skill has no impact anymore. You either have enough AR to survive, or you don’t. And those instabilities are badly placed too. You need 45 AR to survive at level 40 (50 to not take agony damage). If you have that much AR, there is no more challenge from agony for level 41 to 49… You don’t need to dodge it anymore, you just need to farm for stuff… To me, as well as many fractals players I talked to, this was a major bad change. We want our skill to be challenged as we progress in levels, not our stuff to be challenged. Which is why more AR given to us is not the answer.

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

I am not looking to change or “fix” the current fractals. There is room for improvement there, I am certain, but I do not want redressing issues raised by the level wipe to be held hostage to ANYTHING to do with the current Fractals.

If the fact that part of the rewards is given in infusion is that distracting, think of it as a gold coin reward only – since old fractal players unhappy with the new ones can sell them off for a modest amount of coin without ever returning to Mistlock Observatory.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

So yeah… Your argument is flawed. I don’t even understand why you’re even wasting time writing in here since it completely does not affects you in any way. Is that just a thing you do?

Actually, i did lose many levels in different chars. Cause while i didn’t find it rewarding enough to go to high levels – as you said yourself, the rewards weren’t that good at higher levels anyway – i did have multiple chars near or over level 30.
And before that i found myself losing a stat on my celestial items, without them being rebalanced.

Anyway, what i’m opposed to is the introduction of retroactive rewards for content that isn’t available anymore, especially when said content wasn’t supposed to give rewards for those things to begin with. The bane of every collectionist, apart from making fools out of the ones that didn’t do it because…there weren’t rewards.

I’m not saying that what they did with the fractal levels was right – but giving rewards this way would be as wrong as well.
Not to talk about the whole mess of levels 50+.

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Fractals would be more or less fine and people would happily play them if the rewards were worth it. Here are how to fix the rewards…

1. Increase the gold reward by 10s per level, not per tier. 49 should be a 4.9g daily bonus reward, not 1.3g.
2. Remove Rings from the daily loot table at 31+. Especially remove uninfused rings at 31+, currently uninfused rings drop at 49 still and that is painfully bad.
3. Replace ascended _ boxes with the datamined “Universal Ascended ______ boxes”
4. Replace fractal skins with the datamined “Fractal Weapon Box”
5. Add Earrings and amulets to the pristine relic vendor. Additionally, add ascended weapon and armor crafting recipes to the vendor so we can buy them with pristines as opposed to Laurels.
6. Double the drop rate for the ascended boxes and fractal weapon boxes.

These changes, which could be made in a very small amount of time, would turn Fractals into what it should be. If put to a vote, I would bet any amount of money that the end game pve community would prefer my 6 changes here than to have a leaderboard. And since a leaderboard will take significantly more time and effort to code than these changes, Anet should prefer my changes too.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/

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Posted by: Rama.6439

Rama.6439

I love when simpler people use the term “entitlement” as a pejorative. When they say it, the implication is that you aren’t actually entitled to something that you think you are. Here is the truth about so-called “entitlements” in this game (and real life too): there are times when you’ve earned something, or been promised something, and you are in fact entitled to it legitimately.

You are right, we are entitled to a lot, this company has made A LOT of promises that is has yet to keep, most of them promises were made before the game was even released and it has been over a year and stuff that was supposed to be in game at the time of release has still yet to be added, stuff that was supposed to be in game in 2013 has been pushed to 2014 and A LOT of players that started playing have left because of these broken promises and lies.
So now I ask you, what does this entitle us to? More broken promises and more lies? Seems like that’s all we have to look forward to.

Arcubus Balefire – 80 Guardian
Välkyri – 80 Warrior
JQ[Lulz] – Kill fur Thrillz…

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Posted by: Titanimite.2534

Titanimite.2534

It’s funny how disappointing this entire patch was. I knew it was going to be disappointing, but they really struck the ball out of the park with this one. I used to compare it with the last season of Lost, but I think they’ve even surpassed that. At the moment the disappointment is venturing near the ending to Knowing.

Some part of me thinks this entire patch was a bet:

Anet employee 1: “Hey, wanna see who can make the most people quit with a single patch?”

Anet employee 2: “Sure, I’ll convince the Living Story department to keep Scarlet around for a bit longer, what are you going to do?”

Anet employee 1: “I’ll rework Fractals, promise a bunch of stuff, erase people’s progression, and then not deliver anything of the stuff I promised.”

Anet employee 2: “Wow, I thought my idea was evil.”

Anet employee 1: “Oh, and I forgot to mention, I’ll add more Dredge to the Dredge Fractal.”

Anet employee 2: “Ho there Satan, contain yourself.”

Well, there’s one big plus to the entire Fractured saga. It made me lose all interest in this game and especially the studio producing it right before finals hit, so I guess that’s a good thing.

Sad thing is I feel the same way with the Fractals change and stealth changes to Arah and they don’t even respond to the questions we have. I’m so over this treatment from ANet but hey at least I will have more time for BF4.

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Posted by: Bagel.4598

Bagel.4598

So yeah… Your argument is flawed. I don’t even understand why you’re even wasting time writing in here since it completely does not affects you in any way. Is that just a thing you do?

Actually, i did lose many levels in different chars. Cause while i didn’t find it rewarding enough to go to high levels – as you said yourself, the rewards weren’t that good at higher levels anyway – i did have multiple chars near or over level 30.
And before that i found myself losing a stat on my celestial items, without them being rebalanced.

Anyway, what i’m opposed to is the introduction of retroactive rewards for content that isn’t available anymore, especially when said content wasn’t supposed to give rewards for those things to begin with. The bane of every collectionist, apart from making fools out of the ones that didn’t do it because…there weren’t rewards.

I’m not saying that what they did with the fractal levels was right – but giving rewards this way would be as wrong as well.
Not to talk about the whole mess of levels 50+.

What you are falsely assuming is that the rewards should be ones which cannot be obtained ever again.
Some have suggested rewards that may be unobtainable and some have suggested those that could be obtained in future release.
No one is debating that levels 50+ weren’t intended to be played although they could be, legitimately (which was wrong of Anet for not putting a hard cap and just blocking it at level 50 in the first place).
Your argument that giving absolutely no credit for people’s time invested and disregarding it completely by resetting everybody above 30 back to an even level being fair is out of line. That is the problem here and that is where you are in the wrong.

What should’ve and could’ve happened was for Arena net to reset people above 50 because as implied by the lack of agony people were not supposed to go past this point. The instabilities should have come in at levels 50 plus and NEW rewards (such as fractal weapon boxes / greater % chance of drops for other boxes increased along with gold reward at each tier) should have been introduced with added AR.
Those that went past 50 may have assumed higher levels would be unlocked later and wanted to get a head start and it would be on them if they spent the time ascending for no gain should the update reset them.
However resetting a progress in the game that was open and expected of players, for (currently) absolutely no beneficial gain to the player / community without any compensation is unacceptable of Anet to do.

There should be reward for those who played this game and invested time and had it deleted.
You can not unjustly delete people’s progress, with no compensation unless it was an exploited mechanic.
If you got higher than character level 80 and were sent back down to 80 you would not be upset because it would have been a bug that you exploited, as you were told in the first place that max level is 80.
However if Anet now reset everybody’s characters to level 50 and said “It’s a race to level 80 again, this time you’ll be recorded to a ladder” and then never introduced that ladder, claiming they are “collecting data” then a month later say they are rethinking this ladder all together and haven’t even started coding you can bet your cherry kitten there’d be a kitten storm and complete outrage all over this game.
Just because this has happened to a small niche in the player base those unaffected turn a blind eye or even stand behind Anet.
What a swell community we have.

What happen to Fractals Leaderboard?

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Posted by: Titanimite.2534

Titanimite.2534

Fractals would be more or less fine and people would happily play them if the rewards were worth it. Here are how to fix the rewards…

1. Increase the gold reward by 10s per level, not per tier. 49 should be a 4.9g daily bonus reward, not 1.3g.
2. Remove Rings from the daily loot table at 31+. Especially remove uninfused rings at 31+, currently uninfused rings drop at 49 still and that is painfully bad.
3. Replace ascended _ boxes with the datamined “Universal Ascended ______ boxes”
4. Replace fractal skins with the datamined “Fractal Weapon Box”
5. Add Earrings and amulets to the pristine relic vendor. Additionally, add ascended weapon and armor crafting recipes to the vendor so we can buy them with pristines as opposed to Laurels.
6. Double the drop rate for the ascended boxes and fractal weapon boxes.

These changes, which could be made in a very small amount of time, would turn Fractals into what it should be. If put to a vote, I would bet any amount of money that the end game pve community would prefer my 6 changes here than to have a leaderboard. And since a leaderboard will take significantly more time and effort to code than these changes, Anet should prefer my changes too.

This is exactly what fractals needs and I would actually start doing them again provided the changes we’re made. We never asked for a leaderboard and I still don’t want it even after ANet reset my levels.

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

What you are falsely assuming is that the rewards should be ones which cannot be obtained ever again.
Some have suggested rewards that may be unobtainable and some have suggested those that could be obtained in future release.

Because the people i was talking about wanted such rewards to be unique – as anybody can read in the threads on the Fractured subsection.
But even if it was something not unique, it would still have been something uncalled for.
As – and i’ve said it multiple times – there was nothing that pushed players going to high fractal levels outside of a personal challenge. Not even the achievements – as they could be completed with a personal fractal level of 3.

No one is debating that levels 50+ weren’t intended to be played although they could be, legitimately (which was wrong of Anet for not putting a hard cap and just blocking it at level 50 in the first place).
Your argument that giving absolutely no credit for people’s time invested and disregarding it completely by resetting everybody above 30 back to an even level being fair is out of line. That is the problem here and that is where you are in the wrong.

I never said it was fair – what i did say is that giving rewards out of the blue would be even more wrong.
Also, people with high fractal levels aren’t the only ones affected – people lost their time invested due to the level becoming account bound as well. I’m one of those, by the way. And i’m still of the same opinion as before.

What should’ve and could’ve happened was for Arena net to reset people above 50 because as implied by the lack of agony people were not supposed to go past this point. The instabilities should have come in at levels 50 plus and NEW rewards (such as fractal weapon boxes / greater % chance of drops for other boxes increased along with gold reward at each tier) should have been introduced with added AR.
Those that went past 50 may have assumed higher levels would be unlocked later and wanted to get a head start and it would be on them if they spent the time ascending for no gain should the update reset them.
However resetting a progress in the game that was open and expected of players, for (currently) absolutely no beneficial gain to the player / community without any compensation is unacceptable of Anet to do.

There should be reward for those who played this game and invested time and had it deleted.
You can not unjustly delete people’s progress, with no compensation unless it was an exploited mechanic.
If you got higher than character level 80 and were sent back down to 80 you would not be upset because it would have been a bug that you exploited, as you were told in the first place that max level is 80.
However if Anet now reset everybody’s characters to level 50 and said “It’s a race to level 80 again, this time you’ll be recorded to a ladder” and then never introduced that ladder, claiming they are “collecting data” then a month later say they are rethinking this ladder all together and haven’t even started coding you can bet your cherry kitten there’d be a kitten storm and complete outrage all over this game.
Just because this has happened to a small niche in the player base those unaffected turn a blind eye or even stand behind Anet.
What a swell community we have.

We came to know about the level reset a week before its implementation – when it was already too late to make any change. If we must speak of hypothesis, then another solution could have been just introducing those rewards long before the change, while announcing it widely, so that people interested in those rewards would have been able to get them while they were still available.
But that’s all they are, hypothesis. When the problem arised, all they could have done was either putting retroactive rewards (for something that, as i said multiple times, was never supposed to give ones) or giving none at all, neither for people with multiple chars, and neither to people with high fractal levels.
They chose the second solution – the less wrong of the two, imho. And the one who affected less people, probably.

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Posted by: Bagel.4598

Bagel.4598

What you are falsely assuming is that the rewards should be ones which cannot be obtained ever again.
Some have suggested rewards that may be unobtainable and some have suggested those that could be obtained in future release.

Because the people i was talking about wanted such rewards to be unique – as anybody can read in the threads on the Fractured subsection.
But even if it was something not unique, it would still have been something uncalled for.
As – and i’ve said it multiple times – there was nothing that pushed players going to high fractal levels outside of a personal challenge. Not even the achievements – as they could be completed with a personal fractal level of 3.

No one is debating that levels 50+ weren’t intended to be played although they could be, legitimately (which was wrong of Anet for not putting a hard cap and just blocking it at level 50 in the first place).
Your argument that giving absolutely no credit for people’s time invested and disregarding it completely by resetting everybody above 30 back to an even level being fair is out of line. That is the problem here and that is where you are in the wrong.

I never said it was fair – what i did say is that giving rewards out of the blue would be even more wrong.
Also, people with high fractal levels aren’t the only ones affected – people lost their time invested due to the level becoming account bound as well. I’m one of those, by the way. And i’m still of the same opinion as before.

What should’ve and could’ve happened was for Arena net to reset people above 50 because as implied by the lack of agony people were not supposed to go past this point. The instabilities should have come in at levels 50 plus and NEW rewards (such as fractal weapon boxes / greater % chance of drops for other boxes increased along with gold reward at each tier) should have been introduced with added AR.
Those that went past 50 may have assumed higher levels would be unlocked later and wanted to get a head start and it would be on them if they spent the time ascending for no gain should the update reset them.
However resetting a progress in the game that was open and expected of players, for (currently) absolutely no beneficial gain to the player / community without any compensation is unacceptable of Anet to do.

There should be reward for those who played this game and invested time and had it deleted.
You can not unjustly delete people’s progress, with no compensation unless it was an exploited mechanic.
If you got higher than character level 80 and were sent back down to 80 you would not be upset because it would have been a bug that you exploited, as you were told in the first place that max level is 80.
However if Anet now reset everybody’s characters to level 50 and said “It’s a race to level 80 again, this time you’ll be recorded to a ladder” and then never introduced that ladder, claiming they are “collecting data” then a month later say they are rethinking this ladder all together and haven’t even started coding you can bet your cherry kitten there’d be a kitten storm and complete outrage all over this game.
Just because this has happened to a small niche in the player base those unaffected turn a blind eye or even stand behind Anet.
What a swell community we have.

We came to know about the level reset a week before its implementation – when it was already too late to make any change. If we must speak of hypothesis, then another solution could have been just introducing those rewards long before the change, while announcing it widely, so that people interested in those rewards would have been able to get them while they were still available.
But that’s all they are, hypothesis. When the problem arised, all they could have done was either putting retroactive rewards (for something that, as i said multiple times, was never supposed to give ones) or giving none at all, neither for people with multiple chars, and neither to people with high fractal levels.
They chose the second solution – the less wrong of the two, imho. And the one who affected less people, probably.

Judging from your replies to Romo and now to me I can see you are determined to argue even when proven wrong.
Your justifications for their actions are weak and easily contradicted.
I have no interest in furthering this conversation with you.

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Posted by: Rama.6439

Rama.6439

What you are falsely assuming is that the rewards should be ones which cannot be obtained ever again.
Some have suggested rewards that may be unobtainable and some have suggested those that could be obtained in future release.

Because the people i was talking about wanted such rewards to be unique – as anybody can read in the threads on the Fractured subsection.
But even if it was something not unique, it would still have been something uncalled for.
As – and i’ve said it multiple times – there was nothing that pushed players going to high fractal levels outside of a personal challenge. Not even the achievements – as they could be completed with a personal fractal level of 3.

No one is debating that levels 50+ weren’t intended to be played although they could be, legitimately (which was wrong of Anet for not putting a hard cap and just blocking it at level 50 in the first place).
Your argument that giving absolutely no credit for people’s time invested and disregarding it completely by resetting everybody above 30 back to an even level being fair is out of line. That is the problem here and that is where you are in the wrong.

I never said it was fair – what i did say is that giving rewards out of the blue would be even more wrong.
Also, people with high fractal levels aren’t the only ones affected – people lost their time invested due to the level becoming account bound as well. I’m one of those, by the way. And i’m still of the same opinion as before.

What should’ve and could’ve happened was for Arena net to reset people above 50 because as implied by the lack of agony people were not supposed to go past this point. The instabilities should have come in at levels 50 plus and NEW rewards (such as fractal weapon boxes / greater % chance of drops for other boxes increased along with gold reward at each tier) should have been introduced with added AR.
Those that went past 50 may have assumed higher levels would be unlocked later and wanted to get a head start and it would be on them if they spent the time ascending for no gain should the update reset them.
However resetting a progress in the game that was open and expected of players, for (currently) absolutely no beneficial gain to the player / community without any compensation is unacceptable of Anet to do.

There should be reward for those who played this game and invested time and had it deleted.
You can not unjustly delete people’s progress, with no compensation unless it was an exploited mechanic.
If you got higher than character level 80 and were sent back down to 80 you would not be upset because it would have been a bug that you exploited, as you were told in the first place that max level is 80.
However if Anet now reset everybody’s characters to level 50 and said “It’s a race to level 80 again, this time you’ll be recorded to a ladder” and then never introduced that ladder, claiming they are “collecting data” then a month later say they are rethinking this ladder all together and haven’t even started coding you can bet your cherry kitten there’d be a kitten storm and complete outrage all over this game.
Just because this has happened to a small niche in the player base those unaffected turn a blind eye or even stand behind Anet.
What a swell community we have.

We came to know about the level reset a week before its implementation – when it was already too late to make any change. If we must speak of hypothesis, then another solution could have been just introducing those rewards long before the change, while announcing it widely, so that people interested in those rewards would have been able to get them while they were still available.
But that’s all they are, hypothesis. When the problem arised, all they could have done was either putting retroactive rewards (for something that, as i said multiple times, was never supposed to give ones) or giving none at all, neither for people with multiple chars, and neither to people with high fractal levels.
They chose the second solution – the less wrong of the two, imho. And the one who affected less people, probably.

Judging from your replies to Romo and now to me I can see you are determined to argue even when proven wrong.
Your justifications for their actions are weak and easily contradicted.
I have no interest in furthering this conversation with you.

Yes this is stupid, so what do you think of Anet making the spvp players rick with this last patch? I think that was wrong, they have no need of money in spvp, they dont travel in the mists, dont need repairs or any need of gold, yet Anet just allowed player to make hundreds of gold off of Glory. Was that right?

Arcubus Balefire – 80 Guardian
Välkyri – 80 Warrior
JQ[Lulz] – Kill fur Thrillz…

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Posted by: Bagel.4598

Bagel.4598

Judging from your replies to Romo and now to me I can see you are determined to argue even when proven wrong.
Your justifications for their actions are weak and easily contradicted.
I have no interest in furthering this conversation with you.

Yes this is stupid, so what do you think of Anet making the spvp players rick with this last patch? I think that was wrong, they have no need of money in spvp, they dont travel in the mists, dont need repairs or any need of gold, yet Anet just allowed player to make hundreds of gold off of Glory. Was that right?[/quote]

Hi Rama,
I feel like PvP is favoured more than PvE to begin with.
The thing is, however PvP and PvE don’t have different characters like GW1 did.
I don’t think that PvP needed gold, but I do think they should be able to access all the skins in the game too. Just acquired with their own currency (Glory).
There was no need to remove it for gold.

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Posted by: Akari Storm.6809

Akari Storm.6809

And also, I agree that just scrapping leaderboards for fractals would be the best idea. Having leaderboards for fractals makes no sense. PvE leaderboards for things like Challenge Missions made sense (in GW1), but not fractals.

Agree! Challenge missions and it’s leaderboard seemed to be built with each other in mind. Leaderboards for dungeons just doesn’t garner my interest at all. Perhaps there is a fraction of a fraction of players who actually would care about something like this.

The ap leaderboard doesn’t make sense to me either. Mainly because of the temp content. A new player will never reach anywhere near the top because of the lost aspects of temporary content. The pvp version kind of makes sense.

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

Judging from your replies to Romo and now to me I can see you are determined to argue even when proven wrong.
Your justifications for their actions are weak and easily contradicted.
I have no interest in furthering this conversation with you.

It seems to me you aren’t able to argument anymore, thus you’re stopping the conversation. Oh well, whatever. Still, i’m just repeating what i said for a week in the fractured subforums – before the actual implementation – and you can still find all the posts related to the matter there.

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Posted by: Wethospu.6437

Wethospu.6437

If your opinion hasn’t even slightly changed during the last week I would say you just haven’t been listening.

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Posted by: Bright.9160

Bright.9160

Manuhell, I wonder something. The whole thing you keep rehashing ad nauseam is that we are not entitled to any retroactive compensation for our levels. I see the point you make, although I strongly disagree with it, and I feel all your analogies fail, because you keep bringing up temporary content.

That aside though, I wonder if you think that Anet handled this patch well. Do you feel Fractured as a whole was a success? Do you see all the blatant issues with it? The progress reset, the myriad of bugs that go unanswered, the reward nerf (yes, nerf, because rewards are worse now), the broken promises, the complete silence on their end which is just adding insult to injury etc.

Or do you feel like Anet handled this all really good and Fractured was a good change to Fractals?

Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

I’ll be the first to critize a poster who says, “Don’t work on this content I don’t like, instead put those resources to unrelated content I do like.”

However, there has to be a better use of your resources then developing a leaderboard for Fractals.

Part of the problem you are having is trouble differentiating players at the same level? Doesn’t that tell you that the content doesn’t need a leaderboard in the first place?

What is it going to come down to? Number of times a Fractal level is completed?

You have a hard cap on Fractals for crying out loud. How long before the leaderboard is just filled with everyone at max and the only factor is who got there first?

Cut your losses and develop something worth while.

Edit:

Actually if you want to salvage this thing into something useful, you should turn it into a regular dungeon leaderboard and include things like;

Speed Runs

Solo’ing bosses

Cater to your customer base. Who are the people that are going to care about the leaderboards anyway?

Hardcore players that want to be the best, and be reconized as such.

Do you already see any of that type of activity going on related to dungeons?

Take a look at the dungeon sub-forum….Yes you do have one.

There are sizeable threads dedicated to speed run videos and solo boss clear videos. Players have been creating their own leaderboards. Its all right there in plain sight.

This really isn’t that hard Anet.

(edited by CryxTryx.9208)

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

Manuhell, I wonder something. The whole thing you keep rehashing ad nauseam is that we are not entitled to any retroactive compensation for our levels. I see the point you make, although I strongly disagree with it, and I feel all your analogies fail, because you keep bringing up temporary content.

I keep bringing temporary content because the old fractals ended up being one of them, even if they weren’t supposed to.
And while it is true that some people wouldn’t have done them if they knew they were temporary, the opposite is also true: some people would have done them when they were still available because they were temporary, especially if there were unique rewards attached for particular achievements (as with any living story release). Be it titles, items or even the achievement themselves, as far as achievement hunters go.

That aside though, I wonder if you think that Anet handled this patch well. Do you feel Fractured as a whole was a success? Do you see all the blatant issues with it? The progress reset, the myriad of bugs that go unanswered, the reward nerf (yes, nerf, because rewards are worse now), the broken promises, the complete silence on their end which is just adding insult to injury etc.

Or do you feel like Anet handled this all really good and Fractured was a good change to Fractals?

They handled the patch quite bad, imho. Since the announcement itself – if they deemed a reset of the levels was necessary, they should have told it quite earlier. As they revealed it just a week before its implementation, it was already too late to do anything even if they acknowledged the issues.
Still, that’s mostly due of past screw-ups (the management of fractal levels in general, level 50+ and so on) than a problem of the patch itself – if anything, those are things they should have corrected long ago, possibly just after fractals were implemented and those issues were discovered, instead of taking all this time to fix them.
Also, there are quite a number of issues not addressed, be it ways to use the rings in excess, other uses of pristine fractal relics and issues with rewards in general (also, i still think the gold reward is too low for the average duration of a fractal).
But there are some good things as well, let’s be clear. I do appreciate the new fractals, and the instabilities may offer some varied challenges instead of the stale “beat stronger monster” design we had before – it all depends on their design. And some of them may be debatable (as the whole agony infusion management, that seems more a way to sell upgrade extractors than a player friendly system).
Also, as using mainly an engineer, i could say i’m quite accustomed to broken promises and silence on their part (i’m still waiting for a way to not see the hobosacks and have a proper cosmetic endgame…). Nothing new on that part, i could say.

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Posted by: Bright.9160

Bright.9160

snip

Thanks. This is the first post of yours that I can call reasonable. I think the main issue most of us had with your relentless crusade against the retroactive rewards we asked for was that you gave the impression that you backed up Anet throughout everything they did this patch.

As for your issues with the rewards, I’d like to point out that it’s not just the gold reward. One blink of light in their reward ‘improvement’ is that they did improve drops in Fractals. I was getting rares and exotics left and right when I was still doing them (or playing at all) after the patch.

The biggest issue with their reward ‘improvement’ is that they added insufficient gold reward, but mainly, and this is the big culprit, they increased the drop rates of rings and more importantly uninfused rings in lvl30+ fractals, and drastically reduced the rate of weapons you get. Not to mention a nerf to relics and the dailies being account bound. To be honest, no uninfused rings should drop above level 30, and no rings should drop at all at lvl 40+. If you’re at Fractal level 40, you don’t need rings. You don’t want rings. And especially not uninfused rings for the only daily you can do on your account now, because some scrubs wanted to be able to do Fractals on more than just their Cleric’s Guardian.

I do have to say I kind of like the new Fractals too. Mai Trin can go shove a rusty mace in a place not designed for one though. And preferably as deep as she can, and then a little deeper.

Molten Facility, Molten Bosses, Aetherblade and Thaumanova are decent though.

Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu

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Posted by: IceVyper.6810

IceVyper.6810

The biggest issue with their reward ‘improvement’ is that they added insufficient gold reward, but mainly, and this is the big culprit, they increased the drop rates of rings and more importantly uninfused rings in lvl30+ fractals, and drastically reduced the rate of weapons you get. Not to mention a nerf to relics and the dailies being account bound. To be honest, no uninfused rings should drop above level 30, and no rings should drop at all at lvl 40+. If you’re at Fractal level 40, you don’t need rings. You don’t want rings. And especially not uninfused rings for the only daily you can do on your account now, because some scrubs wanted to be able to do Fractals on more than just their Cleric’s Guardian.

This is so true. Before the patch I had two characters at level 48+ and was doing one daily 48 run. If friends would ask me, I would sometimes do a 38 as well. We were usually a fixed group and every run 3 people were getting a fractal weapon. I had a banktab full of unwanted fractal weapons that I eventually salvaged for ectos.

5 days after the patch was released, I was back to level 50 and have been doing a daily 49 since then. Sometimes a 36 as well, out of curiosity to see what drops I would get.

What I have noticed is:

- I get a lot less account bound exotics than before.
- I rarely see a fractal skin drop. In the over 50 runs I have done so far, I got 2 pistol skins and saw a guy get a torch.
- I got two weapon chests with useless stats but pretty white colors so now I got ascended underwater weapons…
- Rares still drop left and right but that is mostly due to my high magic find.
- Every time we take in a pug to fill a spot at 49, we get a freeloader that wants to level without going through the other instabilities.

Appart from that, the most annoying thing, that also does not make any sence is:
- I do a level 36, two people get a weapon chest, one gets an armor chest, two get infused rings.
- I do a level 49, the highest possible without buying agony with gold: two people get uninfused rings, UNINFUSED, the rest get nothing.

Now I wonder, how is this fair?

We were reset 20 levels because of leaderboards. No leaderboars are yet to be seen.

We were reset because we had to prove that we can pass the new instabilities. Yet all we did was pass them, only to carry others who didn’t want to and couldn’t pass them.

We got account bound fractal level that limits us to only one daily with worse rewards than before.

On top of that, we still have to convince stubborn players, that our deleted progress must be compensated. People that question our right for compensation whose motives are entirely based on envy: “If I can’t have it, why should you”.

(edited by IceVyper.6810)

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

On top of that, we still have to convince stubborn players, that our deleted progress must be compensated. People that question our right for compensation whose motives are entirely based on envy: “If I can’t have it, why should you”.

My highest fractal level pre-patch was only 39 so I don’t feel the reset took a whole lot for me. I ddidn’t feel I lost anything that couldn’t be easily achieved again just by doing the same content I would have been repeating anyway.

However I still remember the shock I felt at seeing the update that frac levels were going to get reset. I knew about and and was friends with some players work long and hard at raising their fractal level well beyond the precieved limit.

They did this mostly for bragging rights and to ‘see if they could’ because there was no real loot reward to speak of for doing this.

Anet has done some questionable things in the past, they have produced a few things that made me raise an eyebrow, but all in all I have supported the majority of content and changes that Anet has made to the game.

This was the first move that I gasped at and said… “Wow, bad form Anet, bad form.”

Even the old school games new this. When ever you take something away from a player that they have earned, for whatever reason, you need to give them something in return.

A title, a trophy, a mini – It doesn’t have to be big it doesn’t have to be functional, but you need to reconize their achievement publically.

I always throw back to Asheron’s Call which was a very neiche, little known MMO that did a lot of things wrong, but the things they did right made the game my favorite MMO of all time hands down.

If they nerfed an item out of existance, people who already had that item got to keep the original. – - Now that is on the extreme side of things because you are letting players keep items you have acknowledged need a nerf, none the less they understood the principal. – Unlike GW2 gearing up didn’t come easy and they didn’t take lightly taking progression away from a player.

There was once a world wide PK event. Each server had their own separate but identical event. Flag yourself PK and defend an enemy NPC to prevent the release of the games main villian.

The catch was there were players on both sides of that fight. Players loyal to the villian that wanted to see him released and players loyal to the hero that did not. On my server, Thistledown we had the only group of players dedicated enough to take shifts and protect this NPC around the clock.

Well it was coming to the patch deadline and the developers did not consider the fact that a server would atually be able to hold out. They couldn’t advance the story line and leave one server out of sync, that NPC needed to die. So they were forced to intervene. They contacted a real player in game and convinced him to betray his server. They buffed him using developer buffs and escorted him with a developer toon and went in there – killed the defenders, killed the NPC and ended the event.

Now the devs took something away from those players that day. They took away weeks of hard earned defense of that NPC. No one was told the story had to go one way. But they did it in a creative way, and they created a memorial on all servers reconizing the efforts of those defenders by name for all to see.

They also created this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnj9afinaYI

What will you do for these players Anet?

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Posted by: Abramelin.7356

Abramelin.7356

I think the issue with the Fractal update arise from the fact that they were released as part of the living story process.

Anet obviously care about Fractals. They spent a lot of dev resources making them in the first place and they spent a lot more upgrading them. You don’t do that for a gametype you don’t care about. So how to explain all the bugs and issues, and more frustratingly, Anet’s failure to respond to the community’s concerns?

First, I think the initial bugs and missing features (leaderboards and weapon chests) arose because they ran out of time before the “set in stone” 2 weekly living story release date.

The problem post-release I think is that fractals were designed by a living story team, and that team has now moved on to its next living story project. I know the dungeon team was disbanded a while ago, so I assume that there is no stable team devoted to Fractals either. Accordingly, there is no one from Anet actually assigned to fractals anymore. All the complaints and pleas for communcation have gone unanswered because there is no one at Anet whose job it is to respond anymore.

Basically, Anet have allocated their resources for the next 6 months or so, and none of them have gone to Fractals. So even if they wanted to fix the numerous issues, they don’t have the available manpower.

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Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548

Patrikan Habaton.2548

I think it be just nice to get an answer what they gonna Change in the way leaderboards tracking down Progress.. I think it is smart after having offended all dedicted fractal Players with a reset that coulnd’t be predicted and wasn’t talked about as well, to actually talk from a devs side what your ideas are on making the leaderboard mean somthing…before you implemenet some Thing you spend again loads of time on that is actually wasted and isn’t fair or smart in any way just talk.. it seems to be so hard to tell the reasoning behind those leaderboards and the reset. I Keep wondering why if you just told it was a mistake to do so 6 weeks ago I would have my peace of mind..

first scale 81 fractals